1. FrayVader - Oct. 16, 1998 - 9:08 AM PDT
You hear it all the time... the electronic age is here! The internet will change how we live and do business! How much of this is true, and how much is hype?
Read the Slate dialogue on the Digital Age, and give us *your* prognostications.
2. CharlieL - Oct. 16, 1998 - 9:17 AM PDT
I prefer to flip people the bird. It is a most efficient method of non-verbal, digital communication. And it only requires one digit to do it!
3. DocBrown - Oct. 16, 1998 - 10:18 AM PDT
Dyson and Linden have not given us much with which to agree or disagree yet. That the "digital age" can facilitate very rapid moves of cash is obvious. That this will automatically lead to instability is not. The result may simply be more socioeconomic homogenization. Every economic system must behave so much like every other that investors cannot tell the difference. The world economy will probably become THE WORLD ECONOMY sooner or later, and this Digital Age may help it to happen sooner.
Are you reading this, CalGal? The economy or the world might eventually become tepid and vanilla.
0000 0000 0100 0010 <-- (Doc's digital age)
4. AzureNW - Oct. 16, 1998 - 3:04 PM PDT
One area of life I hope faster communications will improve is the law. Our stodgy legislative process was designed for a time before electronic communications, when input from constituents was much more difficult to obtain. Our system of legislative representation has been sort of electronically patched with television and instant opinion polls, but it is still frustratingly cumbersome and ineffective for our times. I hope internet access will stimulate democratic participation and make our laws and public policies more truly representative.
5. AzureNW - Oct. 16, 1998 - 3:08 PM PDT
Imagine a jury of 12,000 peers, or the entire country voting on impeachment. Yow.
6. CalGal - Oct. 16, 1998 - 3:09 PM PDT
Today CalGal, tomorrow the world!
Welcome to the New Age.
7. JoeTiernan - Oct. 16, 1998 - 3:40 PM PDT
Best prepare for the next civil war. It will be fought in cyperspace.
8. AdamSelene - Oct. 16, 1998 - 5:04 PM PDT
One old (in cyber-days) shattered myth which may bear repeating here:
The early prediction that people would only chat with those of like mind - wrong. Just look around, we only chat with those who disagree with us. Almost no one in the Fray discusses what they agree on. So much for internet factionalization.
Why is this so? Well - it's much easier to heartily disagree when there is no danger of coming to blows. And it's a lot more interesting than listening to echoes. I, for one, would never debate in real live nearly as much as I do online.
9. arkymalarky - Oct. 16, 1998 - 5:26 PM PDT
I agree.
10. WinstonSmith - Oct. 16, 1998 - 6:13 PM PDT
Hey, I was born with four digital computers. Fortunately I grew out of sucking one of the digits.
11. RustlerPike - Oct. 16, 1998 - 10:23 PM PDT
What's Carpal Tunnel Syndrome?
12. CharlieL - Oct. 16, 1998 - 11:22 PM PDT
It's the fear of driving underground with three other people in the car.
Oops, sorry, that's "Carpool Tunnel Syndrome."
The carpal tunnel is a conduit in the wrist through which the nerves of the hand pass. Several tendons which control the fingers also pass very closely to this passageway. Repetitive motion, such as typing, can irritate the tunnel, causing swelling. This swelling puts pressure on the nerves, which can cause phantom pain in the hand. If it gets bad enough, it can cause permament damage to the nerves of the hand. That's why scientists have studied ergonomics, to find the most advantageous ways to perform multiple repetitive tasks, to minimize the damage. For instance, I do a lot of typing at work and at home. To keep me from doing the same tasks the same way, I have a split keyboard at home, and a regular flat keyboard at work. It helps. I also pay very careful attention to my posture and hand position while playing the bass guitar, as playing a musical instrument is another occupation that can cause CTS.
Hope this helps.
13. davidmeyer - Oct. 17, 1998 - 12:28 AM PDT
Class considerations are important in this discussion - computer technology is expensive, and public access (via schools and libraries) is still limited.
It might be interesting to discuss the impact the the growing importance of comp. tech on the permanence of "the underclass," or the rich/poor gap.
I would bet that in twenty years we will be discussing the "right to a computer" as fundamental.
14. AdamSelene - Oct. 17, 1998 - 5:26 AM PDT
davidmeyer,
It will more likely be "right to computer access." That way the legislators can avoid actually giving computers to people but still force those with computers to subsidise the rest.
Anyway -- I would instead think that the computer will do much more to include the underclass in the long run.
1) More of the benefits of owning a computer are being displaced onto the internet.
2) The hardware required to access the internet is getting cheaper and cheaper.
3) Schools will be familiarizing most kids with the technology in kindergarten before the decade is out.
4) Tax write-offs for pc donations should provide a large supply of basic access.
5) Libraries and other public facilities will increasingly provide basic access.
And, once you get on line, most of the class barriers between people that are based on visual and auditory clues disappear.
From current experience in the non-underclass, kids bootstrap their computer knowledge quite well with little direct family involvement. Seems to be an ideal vehicle for a great many kids to break out of the underclass merry-go-round.
15. escarbro - Oct. 17, 1998 - 7:08 AM PDT
Let's hope that we do a better job of providing computer instruction and availability to the underclass than we have to:
Health care
Quality schools
I live in a state (Texas) that does a very poor job on the latter two. I see no reason for optimism regarding the former.
16. escarbro - Oct. 17, 1998 - 7:11 AM PDT
AdamS:
"Why is this so? Well - it's much easier to heartily disagree when there is no danger of coming to blows. And it's a lot more interesting than listening to echoes. I, for one, would never debate in real live nearly as much as I do online."
Amen, brother. Both of us would have probably been covered with spittle last night in the "Hate Crimes" thread.
17. AdamSelene - Oct. 17, 1998 - 7:48 AM PDT
escarbro,
Ya. We (I) take a lot more chances here than I would with real-life strangers. I think it's also much easier to drop any grudges and start fresh on new topics with people that we were ready to tar&feather 5 minutes ago in the last thread.
Unfortunately, I've not seen any more willingness to changes one's mind here than in the real world. I do think we learn a lot and may even deepen our respect for our "opponents," but I've yet to see anyone change a core value from these debates.
18. escarbro - Oct. 17, 1998 - 7:59 AM PDT
Actually, I've changed my mind on a couple of issues. However, let's not get into them here.
Is one's ability to re-think an issue considered a sign of intellectual weakness in the thread?
As they say, "there's nothing in the middle of the road but dead armadilloes."
19. arkymalarky - Oct. 17, 1998 - 7:59 AM PDT
Yeah, but Adam and Escarbro, in real life you'd either know without even a shred of doubt that Max was a fake and who was behind it, or you would have never been given the opportunity to have weeks of conversation with an AI model, real or imaginary, at all.(G)
20. escarbro - Oct. 17, 1998 - 8:01 AM PDT
Arky:
I am not an AI expert, just an interested layperson. However, I have a lot of experience with people and DrDoofus sent my Bullshit Detector off-scale.
21. Msivorytower - Oct. 17, 1998 - 8:31 AM PDT
1) Max and his/her *father* are fakes, or, as I said before, a group of bored, restless or mischievious grad students stuck in the cellar and looking for something to do on their Saturday nights.
2) I've reconsidered my position on several issues that have been debated here in the fray. I don't know that I've switched views so much as tempered those views.
3) Davidmeyer and Escarbro are correct in that the biggest barrier in the information age is socioeconomic class and access. I don't see this changing at all, given what is available, generally, in poor schools on the technology front. (And yes, I'm aware of the wiz bang bells and whistles computers sometimes available in poor schools, but consider the infrastructure supporting those computers, and I'll prove my point.)
22. AdamSelene - Oct. 17, 1998 - 8:32 AM PDT
I would have blew it off sooner (and did, a couple of times), but neuro's ideas were interesting. Like DocB said, they were good catalysts for interesting discussion. Anyway - ya, where else would this conversation have happened?
23. AdamSelene - Oct. 17, 1998 - 8:37 AM PDT
MsIt,
Well, I also have tempored and deepened my views. But, no changes in core values or principals. Just a question of emphasis. I guess my biggest change is learning the complexity of opposing positions and why they often make sense if you only view them from the perspective of a slight change in underlying principle.
Regarding dead armadillos - middle of the roaders hardly ever get into debates. I avoid threads which don't strike a chord one way or the other.
And... I hope you're wrong about the likelihood of technology to improve the lot of the underclasses. We'll see.
24. arkymalarky - Oct. 17, 1998 - 8:39 AM PDT
I think everyone figured out Max the first day or two, except maybe Azure. They just couldn't resist playing along. I couldn't stay interested because I don't have enough technical knowledge to appreciate the game of talking to an imaginary AI model.
The internet is the main benefit computers bring to poor and rural schools, imo.
25. escarbro - Oct. 17, 1998 - 9:10 AM PDT
One hears a lot about "personalized instruction" -- getting to know a student and their particular challenges and expectations in a learning environment.
Has anyone tackled this with computers? I would think that programs could be developed to assess a student (through games) and design programs to remedy. Or is too much individual intuition involved? The only times I have taught (in Grad School and courses to technicials) were small and I worked mainly from intuition. Not being a professional educator, I wonder if these processes have been analyzed and are amenable to software design.
What work is being done and can it help those in school districts which have a poor student/teacher ratio (there are places in Texas where the teachers have to buy their own chalk).
26. ScottLoar - Oct. 17, 1998 - 9:24 AM PDT
I daresay the lot of those "places in Texas where the teachers have to buy their own chalk" either by reason of an impoverished, corrupt or indifferent school board, or inept bureaucracy, will not improve by introducing computers in the classroom. Educating a person to computer use takes time and the devices do break down necessitating a support staff and logistical tail to support them. By comparison chalk would be easier to come by.
Moreover, I cannot see instruction by computer as substitute for a teacher. The computer is a tool, an adjunct only, unlike that poseur mad MAX in the Science and Technology thread.
27. escarbro - Oct. 17, 1998 - 9:42 AM PDT
Scott:
Your gist is that computers will not change the fundamentals of society, just make them more so?
28. ScottLoar - Oct. 17, 1998 - 9:51 AM PDT
Escarbo, well said. I want to say yes, but having access to a greater wealth of information may well transform a society as well as the individuals who capture and use the information although in principle the information is open to all. I can't speculate on the degree of transformation, or what form it may take. I do think - I surely wish - exposure to more information will make more rounded individuals of keener and independent thought; perhaps that's what I see in my daughter and in a few of her classmates all of whom have used computers in school since K-3 but I can't prove so to everyone's satisfaction.
29. marjoribanks - Oct. 17, 1998 - 9:56 AM PDT
Loar,
"I cannot see instruction by computer as substitute for a teacher."
FWIW, instruction by computer is likely to be the very best option available to the vast majority of students in developing countries. It already is for many.
Even in the USA, this applies. Would you rather your daughter learn geography from the available CD-roms and on-line sources or from the pathetic geography teachers in the USA?
30. phillipdavid - Oct. 17, 1998 - 10:04 AM PDT
marjoribanks,
The computer-- cd roms and internet -- is a great place for accessing information. But education is so much more than accessing information and learning facts. It is *interacting* with information where real education takes place. This is where the teacher comes into play.
31. cllrdr - Oct. 17, 1998 - 10:20 AM PDT
I quite agree with your #8 Adam. Moreover, I could never imagine running into anyone quite like Pseudo, for instance, in my everyday life. The same goes for Elliot in some ways. And prior to joining the Fray I could never imagine sitting down and having a drink and a chat with 109.
As a writer the internet has -- so far -- been an informational resource in a limited manner. I've used it to find references to areas I'm already familiar with. Occasionally I stumble upon a new piece of information or two. But my discoveries -- and my use of them -- stem from prior knowlege acquired elsewhere. Nothing will ever replace the book. Moreover, I love libraries, and still find more in casual perusal of the stacks in downtown L.A. than I do "surfing the net." That may change in time, but that's the story so far.
On a personal level the net helped me OUT of my depression following my stroke. It has also graly enlivened my social life.
32. ScottLoar - Oct. 17, 1998 - 10:59 AM PDT
Majoribanks, PhillipDavid answers quite well. Moreover, it is not "instruction by computer" that is likely to be the very best option available to the majority of students in developing countries but using the computer to extend the teacher to cover more students and subjects at a time. Please, review my Message #26, first paragraph: it's not likely that computer access will be cheaper or more effective to teaching a poor or remote body of students than instruction by a teacher.
Now I ask you, would you rather learn geography from an inspired teacher or from the interactive CD-roms and on-line sources? I doubt even the most realistic, interactive software will inspire the indifferent to learn subjects for which they have no aptitude or inclination. The computer's greatest practical benefit seems to be as a word processor, file keeper and game board and the most heavily visited sites on the internet are pornographic.
33. Msivorytower - Oct. 17, 1998 - 11:04 AM PDT
"Nothing will ever replace the book. Moreover, I love libraries, and still find more in casual perusal of the stacks in downtown L.A. than I do "surfing the net.""
I heartily concur with this view. While I use the internet for some data gathering, for the sheer joy of discovery of previously unknown works or ideas there's absolutely nothing that compares to spending the day in a good research library. I can spend hours on one stack discovering one after another author and reading of an event or issue I'm examining.
Some of my best researching has been done by accident, finding important historical authors that fill in important theoretical/knowledge gaps in my understanding of an issue.
I love libraries, and I don't see how sitting in front of a terminal will ever replace the value of thumbing through hundreds of books on a subject.
34. arkymalarky - Oct. 17, 1998 - 11:11 AM PDT
Society won't replace teachers or books with computers, imo, but computers both support and enhance teaching and study. Students' exposure to knowledge and culture is greatly broadened, their ability to research is increased and numerous other advantages result from having computers in the classroom. We used to have to drive kids on a bus thirty miles to the nearest university library once a year in order for them to do research. Now it can be done on the internet, and their papers are more interesting with a wider variety of topics. I use net resources for teaching more every year, and my own expanded knowledge and increased understanding from using the internet has made me a better teacher.
I agree with your point about the people, CD. It's great to socialize and interact with various types of people who you'd never know irl, and it does a lot to break down barriers and stereotypes, not just along racial, ethnic, and gender lines, but regions, socioeconomic status, etc. If I lived in the same neighborhood as most anyone here, I doubt I'd ever have gotten to know any of them.
35. AdamSelene - Oct. 17, 1998 - 11:21 AM PDT
Have you guys seen the new electronic books? About the size and weight of a small hardback and you can download books from the net. Early reviews are that it's very easy to read, supports multiple bookmarks and drill-down research. Just you wait. "Our" generation may not make the switch, but the next one will. Don't forget that web browsers have only been around for 3 years!!! Of course the internet content is still immature, but just you wait.
But as far as teachers... I attended mostly lousy schools in the southland. If it wasn't for being a voracious SciFi reader as a kid, I never would have survived. The only real teacher worth anything was my high school band director. Talk about a motivator! I knew two heroin addicts who only came to school to play in the band (we arrived at 7am and practiced for 2 hours), and then would skip the rest of the day. How many teachers have that kind of draw? If it wasn't for Mr. Jacobs (are you out there?) I well might have dropped out of high school.
Anyway, There's a LOT of research in CAI (computer aided instruction). I haven't kept up with it, but 10 years ago there was a fair amount of DoD funding in it. Basically using expert systems and student models to walk students through topics, give frequent quizes, analyze incorrect responses, and present targeted remedial material. I thought this had a lot of promise - anyone know what's going on these days?
36. ScottLoar - Oct. 17, 1998 - 11:22 AM PDT
I maintain that the internet does not enhance or advance sociability. Yes, it's social - this forum is social - but sitting hours at a computer terminal exchanging words with other monikers is not convivial. I'd even bet that most of the heaviest users of the internet - and this forum - are not very sociable persons and not very active in social activities. Most of their time seems to be spent here, and if that's the measure of their interaction with fellow human beings then we should have reason to fear that US society will become ever more unsociable.
37. arkymalarky - Oct. 17, 1998 - 11:37 AM PDT
Scott,
I don't agree with your assessment, but I'm from a rural area. A lot that more connected people take for granted just isn't available to everybody. I don't want to change my rl, but it's been very enjoyable for me interacting with the variety of people here. It's also beneficial to the art of writing and thinking clearly (and yes, I know, it doesn't seem to be helping some people).
"Sitting for hours" is one thing, but that speaks to the balance needed in everything one chooses to do. If those people weren't here they'd be wasting time on some other obsession and their lack of rl sociability would probably be about the same.
38. escarbro - Oct. 17, 1998 - 11:40 AM PDT
AdamS:
My experience was similar with two exceptions. I started with biographies (grade school, not very spphisticated stuff) and when I had gone through the stack, I picked up something called "Seven Novels by H.G. Wells. The rest is history.
I also was inspired teachers. However, everything I learned in the school curriculum was from 5 teachers who gave flesh to the data. They all, coincidently, retired early when the old teaching track was loosened up. My brother was actually able to take "Creative Writing" before he learned grammar and syntax!
Back to the point: Computer Aided Instruction could serve as a supplement to teachers. Just as Computer Aided Diagnosis does not replace the physician, meerly increases their resources for dealing with problems.
39. Msivorytower - Oct. 17, 1998 - 11:45 AM PDT
Scott
I agree with your position. There's no evidence that spending hours a day online increases one's sense of community or well being. In fact, a recent study (widely popularized in the media) indicated an inverse relationship between hours spent online and the incidence of depression and anger.
Selene,
Your pollyannaish view of the internet is charming, but the difference between reading a book online and in hand is vast. I don't know about your children, but my offspring goes to bed everynight with book in hand. She likes bookmarks, enjoys the feel of the pages, likes to circle funny passages, etc.
This is not an experience that can be replicated by a computer, it is an entirely different relationship with the written word.
Wrt computers and learning, for some children, who are visual learners and can develop their knowledge in isolation, computers will be a great aid to them. However, there are a large number of children (and adults) for whom learning is a total body experience, or for whom learning must take place using mulitple senses.
Computers will never be able to replace teachers and a classroom for such children, and to believe so would be to revert to the linear and monolithic learning theories of 50 years ago. A move in this direction would, in effect, disenfranchise a large porportion of the children from access to high quality learning environments that are suited to their particular learning styles.
40. phillipdavid - Oct. 17, 1998 - 11:50 AM PDT
AdamSelene,
My school uses a massive software program on a couple of computers that sounds like what you described:
"Basically using expert systems and student models to walk students through topics, give frequent quizes, analyze incorrect responses, and present targeted remedial material. I thought this had a lot of promise - anyone know what's going on these days?"
I can't think of its name right now, but we use it for kids who are behind, need remidial instruction, can't maintain proper socialization and decorem in a classroom, and in the afterschool study hall.
The software "teaches" a variety of subjects, and has numerous skill levels. Kids have to master one level before advancing to the next level of instruction.
41. phillipdavid - Oct. 17, 1998 - 11:58 AM PDT
Time magazine has a new article about how to make your kid a better student.
They explore similarities amoung the highly successsful, the truths about hardware and software, differences between boys and girls, the theory of multiple intelligences -- interesting reading, imo.
42. AdamSelene - Oct. 17, 1998 - 12:41 PM PDT
MsIt,
You misunderstood me - the electronic book is a new device that is the about the size, shape, and weight of a real book. No cord. You can take it to bed and read under the covers --- without a flashlight! You can even read it in the bathroom, so the newspaper circulation should go way down. *g*
I bet when they started binding books, a lot of scholars decried it - "no parchment! No unrolling and rerolling scrolls! Its just not the same - It will never catch on."
*g*
43. BobaFett - Oct. 17, 1998 - 1:06 PM PDT
Adam:
Electronic books are neat, and the lighted screen feature will make them convenient for reading in bed, but come on.
Computer screens just aren't like paper. It's more difficult to read. It's just not as convenient. Further, computer books are currently fairly bulky, no?
There's something nice about a book. The feel of the paper, the choice of the typeface, and especially the smell of either new or old & dry paper.
Computer books may supplement real books as PDA's, etc., and will be a boon for frequent travelers -- they will be a big trade at airports.
But *replace* the book? Never -- *never.*
44. escarbro - Oct. 17, 1998 - 4:44 PM PDT
BobaFett:
"Computer screens just aren't like paper. It's more difficult to read. "
My desktop screen is quite glaring and uncomfortable -- compared with a book. However, the Active Matrix screen on my laptop is superior to even books (of which I have about a thousand). I'm constantly shifting in my chair to get the right angle for the light and folding the pages of paperbacks further than they are intended to be folded.
I love books, their touch, their smell, but I am open to improvement.
45. phillipdavid - Oct. 17, 1998 - 5:20 PM PDT
An elctronic book.
46. escarbro - Oct. 17, 1998 - 5:41 PM PDT
The E-Book people say that the test for any replacement of books is the Four B's: Bed, Bath, Bounce and ... I forget. What is it?
My books have been in bed, have been dunked in the bath, been dropped. What else is there?
47. John0Gelles - Oct. 17, 1998 - 8:36 PM PDT
The debate over the future of the digital age -- will life, including earning a living, be less stable than it is today? -- seems removed from the content of the 46 messages I just now read. It's not just education and reading habits that will change, law and money will too. One message asked for better law written in popular language (my words, not its)-- and I agree we need it.
The key to the vote requested is "stable". Most want to live both "rich" and "exciting" and "varied" lives. So "stability" is not their highest value -- perhaps money is, because it allows anyone with it to chose when they prefer quiet to variety and risk.
In all events, the digital age will feature an ever increasing rate of change in invention and experiment. But it may also bring the conquest of economic scarcity in food, clothing, care, recreation and shelter -- much as the age of science improved medical knowledge and practice.
If this happens, based on something akin to "Microsoft money" -- that is money that employs all willing workers as well as storing their savings in a manner that protects them from inflation, we will probably be thankful for all the digital power we are unleashing. If it does not, we may see the digital age as delivering far less than we wanted when it began.
48. ScottLoar - Oct. 18, 1998 - 7:58 AM PDT
"'Microsoft money'-- that is money that employs all willing workers as well as storing their savings in a manner that protects them from inflation" is to be effected by computers? The computer is somehow supposed to erase unemployment, direct resources (including persons) to the most effective use, give compensation that allows the willing to save, invest and manage those savings to profitable return thereby ensuring a pool of money that can be used to whatever end the managed wish to indulge (without consequences to anyone else in the pot?)... and all by computers?
You've completely lost me.
49. wexxford1 - Oct. 18, 1998 - 4:35 PM PDT
Inventive minds look on the digital age as a licence to make lotsa money. Inventors using screen-based trading in the digital age added as many $trillions as necessary to American wealth to avoid socialism.
Read the great Walter Wriston's stuff about banks and the digital age will get the bible on digital systems as invented by the greatest global bank of all time, Citicorp!!! Was it not the great Wally who said ' The new electronic money is just a blip on a screen."Gee.Why are most Amurricans so ashamed to talk about the creation of wealth by integrated digital systems? When a few $trillion in assets was needed to pay private pensions and medical insurance for the masses in Amurrica,the digital traders said ' How much, darlings, and when ? " Up went the junk bond markets, up went the stock markets,into football fields of trading rooms went willing digital clerks who traded with one another until the screen said " Bingo!" Hyuh. Hyuh. Hyuh.Check out the upssanddowns of Scandinavian pulp before you suggest that electronic screens will replace paper. If that unlikely thing happened what would the poor Scandinavians and canadians do to fill their begging bowls ? " The Digital Age" has to equal more and more money,nowe that manufacturing and distribution are run in a failsafe way by digital systems.Gambling for the little folk on digital screens-- now there's a wholesome thought .
50. DocBrown - Oct. 19, 1998 - 7:54 AM PDT
RustlerPike, were you satisfied with CharlieL's description of Carpal Tunnel Syndrom?
He gave some good clinical details, but here is a broader perspective:
CTS is often but not always caused by repetitive strain in the tendon sheaths of the wrist. Rapid and repeated flexion of the tendons causes friction which swells the sheaths and crushes the nerves that pass through the carpal tunnel. This means that keyboard based jobs can very often result in CTS.
This is why we hardly ever heard of CTS before the age of computers. The human wrist evolved to climb a tree or swing a club, not to type 90 words per minute. In the Digital Age, CTS is replacing back strain as the most common workplace malady.
As you surmised, CTS affects women more often than men. The reason is simple: women have smaller wrists than men, so it takes less swelling to damage the nerves. But rest assured than men do suffer from CTS, especially men in keyboard intensive jobs.
I would not be surprised to learn that every single person at The Fray suffers from CTS to some degree. If anyone likes, I can describe the symptoms, treatment, and prevention of CTS in greater detail.
51. AdamSelene - Oct. 19, 1998 - 9:13 AM PDT
My split and angled natural keyboard (U.S.Logic) eased my CTS symptoms tremendously. The pain was reduced over 90%, despite continued heavy typing on a daily basis.
52. DocBrown - Oct. 19, 1998 - 9:45 AM PDT
AdamSelene, the split angled keyboard helps prevent and relieve CTS by keeping the wrist in a more neutral position. When the wrist is bent slightly in either direction, movement of the fingers causes many times more friction than when the wrist is neutral.
You can achieve the same results with a traditional keyboard simply by holding your palms so high over the keyboard that the wrists are always neutral. Unfortunately this is a lot of work, and it is a difficult habit to acquire because it is so unnatural. The new ergonomic keyboards like yours are a pretty good aide, and there are various wrist braces that help, too.
53. RustlerPike - Oct. 19, 1998 - 10:18 AM PDT
CharlieL, DocBrown:
Only read the relevant posts now - thank you very much. Though something tells me I'm going to get CTS, now that I know what it is.
54. DocBrown - Oct. 19, 1998 - 11:25 AM PDT
To all interested in Carpal Tunnel Syndrome:
The most common symptom is a numb tingling, pins-and-needles sensation in one or both hands. This feels exactly like your hand has "fallen asleep" due to poor circulation, except that it only affects the thumb, index finger, and middle finger. The ring finger and pinky finger feel relatively normal.
It will usually happen near the end of the day. If you have more severe CTS it can wake you up in the night with pain in the hands. As the severity increases there are more symptoms, but by that time you will usually have been diagnosed by a physician.
The "pins and needles" numbness in those three digits on either hand (or both) is the key early warning sign of CTS.
55. CoralReef - Oct. 19, 1998 - 12:59 PM PDT
About schools and computers, I didn't see this point made but if it was, apologies: poor schools with donated computers and a cheap internet connection have an instant library. Not a complete library, and real books would be preferable, but a pretty impressive one nonetheless.
56. John0Gelles - Oct. 19, 1998 - 11:03 PM PDT
ScottLoar in 48 above is skeptical that information science and computers can end unemployment, and take over many functions we leave to the market, without adverse impact on society, presumeably freedom of the individual to contribute to his own prosperity and that of others.
In view of the fialures of socialism his skepticism is justified. Still, with the power to compute advanced to where it is, the functions of money and price will, in my opinion, be taken over by information science "money". And it will do for the necessities of life, including full employment and individual liberty, what the markets of yesterday could not.
Part of the method I forsee will be the end of income tax and the beginning of saving in its place -- as the anti-inflationary tool of choice. This would simultaneously end high interest induced unemployment under central bank programs aimed at preventing inflation.
See Individual Esate Account
57. DocBrown - Oct. 20, 1998 - 7:24 AM PDT
WAKE UP, Digital Age thread!
When faced with increasing population and finite resources, the only possible option to promote prosperity is to increase productivity. That's it; productivity. No other choices are available.
Fortunately the technology of the digital age allows us to increase productivity, but there is a cost. Lifestyles must change and adapt to the faster pace. Careers must change to accept more rapid change. Anyone who longs for the family of the 50s or the pace of the 30s is going to live a disappointing life.
As long as the population keeps increasing we need to keep increasing productivity. The only way to reduce the stress is to slow down the world's rate of baby production. Otherwise . . . hang on tight! Your life's just gonna get faster!
58. ScottLoar - Oct. 20, 1998 - 7:38 AM PDT
"Anyone who longs for the family of the 50s or the pace of the 30s is going to live a disappointed life". Maybe. But anyone who has experience of the family of the 50's and especially the pace of the 30's is now so old they've got not much life left by which to be disappointed.
And nostalgia for the pace of the 30's? Depression, massive unemployment, commerce at a standstill, the rise of fascism and the doubts about popular government - not much pace to wax nostalgic about. But there were the pop icons Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland, now graduated to Baywatch.
59. DocBrown - Oct. 20, 1998 - 1:27 PM PDT
Gee Willikers, ScottLoar! I am awestruck by the poignancy of your your response. Your comprehension skills are in a class by themselves.
60. ScottLoar - Oct. 20, 1998 - 2:36 PM PDT
DocBrown, you are a genuine discouragement. Just what the hell are you talking about? So I tell you what, I'll leave you to ruminate but when I'm moved to comment on your major burps I'll do so, okay? Or not okay by you, that's what I'll do.
61. DocBrown - Oct. 21, 1998 - 6:55 AM PDT
I like your comments very much, ScottLoar. Please don't stop making them on my account. It just seemed like Message #58 was intentionally throwing this thread off track, and trying to make it look like it was my fault. I don't know why you would do that.
Frankly, I chose the 30s intentionally. Some of the most beautiful architecture and automobiles were created then, and the pace was certainly slower.
62. ScottLoar - Oct. 21, 1998 - 7:56 AM PDT
DocBrown, I fully retract my Message #60, for my intention is not to throw any thread off track but simply reply to comments that move me.
63. escarbro - Oct. 22, 1998 - 4:47 PM PDT
JohnOGelles: "Still, with the power to compute advanced to where it is, the functions of money and price will, in my opinion, be taken over by information science "money". And it will do for the necessities of life, including full employment and individual liberty, what the markets of yesterday could not. "
Computational power has nothing to do with ownership. Oligarchy is not eliminated by the computer, it is enhanced. The "necessities of life" will still be bought and sold -- even faster and more legalistic than before.
64. John0Gelles - Oct. 22, 1998 - 8:32 PM PDT
Why will computational power allow better money to evolve -- a money that resists inflation in a full employment economy? Because it will require such power to compute a reward for deferred puchasing that keeps savings from losing out to immediate spending. Currently, to avoid inflation we impose unemployment. End that practice and end unfair trade and the economic promise of the information age will begin to take root. Write me and I'll email a general theory of inflation protected money which explains the point in two brief pages.
65. AdamSelene - Oct. 22, 1998 - 9:05 PM PDT
I should think Slate would frown upon unpaid advertising on their pages.
But even if not --- *I* do.
66. wexxford1 - Oct. 23, 1998 - 4:39 AM PDT
The agent of change who has never been wrong about the "Digital Age"--Lou Gerster of IBM, sez the age of the PC is over .Wee,well,well.
Soon all Amurricans will be linked to a network, says IBM. And you all know how the price of IBM stock has shot up since Lou was named CEO? Huuh. Hyuh. Hyuh/
67. DocBrown - Oct. 23, 1998 - 6:51 AM PDT
Unfortunately, John0Gelles, your posts have not intrigued me sufficiently to be interested in your theory. Based on the little bit you have posted, it seems you may be confusing cause with effect. That is, "if event X happens it could cause event Y, therefore event X must happen."
Maybe this is not really the twisted logic you are using, but it sure seems that way from my end.
68. wexxford1 - Oct. 23, 1998 - 7:21 AM PDT
No more PC might deserve a line or two--coming as it does from the expert of experts--the agent of change himself-- ole Lou Gerstner.
69. John0Gelles - Oct. 23, 1998 - 11:50 AM PDT
Will the digital age bring us nearer to a more perfect world with liberty and justice for all? Easy to say no. Easy to say nothing is or ever will be perfect.
But the main writers of the dialog, Dyson and Linden, are presenting optimistic and pessimistic forecasts -- trying to connect something digital to outcomes. To get with the main dialog, I have tried to bring money reform into focus.
It is Keynesian reform with respect to welcoming deficit spending and monetization of debt (to the point that inflation allows no more). I think Linden in message 3 points to the need for money reform if not the promise of information science in achieving it.
I have offered the idea that an inflation protected savings account would allow individuals to save instead of
a) spending now before prices rise, (b) paying tax to prevent spending, or (c) becoming unemployed to stop spending.
The idea goes on to claim that if inflation was tamed by saving, deflation could be tamed by government spending. Thus, with the digital power to model all this and administer it, I see an optimistic outcome using MS MIT money (shorthand for rational money that does not need high interest, taxes or unemployment to work.)
I expect readers on this thread (and Dyson and Linden) to be sceptical of mechanical Keynesian-like solutions to the problems Linden lists of poverty, pollution, financial instability, a global race to the bottom in wages and benefits, etc. Mechanical solutions and money cranks are a dime a dozen.
Nevertheless, the future I see is rosy. All it will take is for parliaments and central bankers to see the wisdom of an inflation protected savings account with overdraft rights that guarantee full emoployment as we move into the digital age. I offer my homepage not as an ad but to avoid hogging the thread.