302. CalGal - April 13, 1999 - 1:26 PM PT
Okay, I don't get that one, and I'm worried that if I answer it I'll say something that makes it worse.
Besides, you're supposed to do this stuff with Niner.
303. CalGal - April 13, 1999 - 1:27 PM PT
He's much better at cockwhacking and choadloading.
304. CalGal - April 13, 1999 - 1:27 PM PT
And get a load of PsychProf--sheesh. Everything all the time him, him, him!!!
305. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 1:28 PM PT
Cal:
It means your eyes got red and stingy when I blew hot spoot into them.
306. PsychProf - April 13, 1999 - 1:28 PM PT
Good one, Cal.
307. jexster - April 13, 1999 - 1:34 PM PT
Hey Rosie, they're holding a YugoRail pass and ticket for Pristina at the Hotel Slobo in Belgrade. You *might* get laid - finally!
"While fleeing Pristina on April 1 – during a mass expulsion of ethnic
Albanians by Serb-led Yugoslav forces – she said she was torn away from her family and raped in a garage by four masked soldiers. They then freed her in time to board a packed refugee train that took her and her family into exile.
Similar stories are starting to emerge from ethnic Albanian refugees who have crossed from Kosovo into Albania and Macedonia in recent weeks. Western officials and human rights groups say that scores of women have reported being raped since the Belgrade government started waging all-out war in Kosovo against separatist rebels and ethnic Albanian civilians supporting rebel demands for independence. "
308. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 1:35 PM PT
Too bad Clinton can't say the word "rape" anymore. Or else the public might know about this.
309. jexster - April 13, 1999 - 1:35 PM PT
Cal,
That Elliott's a randy young thing isn't he?
Keep after that one Cllrdr!!!
310. PsychProf - April 13, 1999 - 1:36 PM PT
This is starting to look like a teenage chat page...
311. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 1:37 PM PT
u like Buffy?
312. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 1:38 PM PT
u like dawson's creek?
313. CalGal - April 13, 1999 - 1:39 PM PT
statz, plz
314. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 1:40 PM PT
m 15
i'm into Quake, Sarah Michelle Gellar, and stinkbombs
315. CalGal - April 13, 1999 - 1:45 PM PT
f 13
RYAN!!!!!
316. benear - April 13, 1999 - 1:48 PM PT
m 25. With a BIG FUCKING inheritence. Wanna go to the prom CalGal?
317. benear - April 13, 1999 - 1:49 PM PT
Wait a minute. That would be pedophilia. Forget that last post Cal.
318. CalGal - April 13, 1999 - 1:51 PM PT
Benear,
Well, I don't date anyway, so you're safe. Fucking pervert.
319. benear - April 13, 1999 - 1:53 PM PT
My apologies, Cal. But, of course, this is Boba's fault. I used to like boys until I met him. Once I got a load of that tiny little thing, I turned straight.
320. CalGal - April 13, 1999 - 1:55 PM PT
Couldn't have produced that much of a load if it's a tiny little thing.
321. benear - April 13, 1999 - 1:56 PM PT
It's practically a figment of his imagination.
322. cllrdr - April 13, 1999 - 1:58 PM PT
A Fig Newton of his imagination is more like it.
323. glendajean - April 13, 1999 - 1:59 PM PT
Benear, legal in certain mountain states, counties in East Texas, and non-enforced in Louisiana. Just keep it straight or all bets are off.
324. benear - April 13, 1999 - 2:00 PM PT
Now, where did you go, Boba. I hope we didn't hurt your feelings, you BIG OL' BOTTOM.
325. cllrdr - April 13, 1999 - 2:02 PM PT
"Eat my cock, gutterskank."
Bobo's so romantic.
Rosie, btw, has been hanging round the "Politics" thread of Table Talk quite a lot.
326. benear - April 13, 1999 - 2:02 PM PT
And how old would you be, Miss Jean? (leer) (drool) (leer)
327. benear - April 13, 1999 - 2:04 PM PT
You, know, I have looked in on TT but don't have a taste for it yet. The threads seem so specific.
328. glendajean - April 13, 1999 - 2:09 PM PT
That's Mister Jean.
329. CalGal - April 13, 1999 - 2:11 PM PT
All right, you people. Take that socializing shit to the Corner.
330. RosettaStone - April 13, 1999 - 2:14 PM PT
You guys could do so much damage in the Politics section of TT. They aren't nearly as good writers as some of you are here, and so intense about their love for Bill Clinton and fat Susan.
Last night, my new friend karen, wanted to be "hugged" because she was so "down" about THE IMPEACHED PRESIDENT being held in CONTEMPT.
I said no thanks.
331. cllrdr - April 13, 1999 - 2:14 PM PT
The threads aren't as specific as you might think, benear. After awhile everyone forgets about the original topic and goes berserk.
332. benear - April 13, 1999 - 2:14 PM PT
Opps. I guess that is a deep masculine voice you have there Glen.
So, you get down to loosiana much for the fishin'?
333. cllrdr - April 13, 1999 - 2:15 PM PT
"fat Susan"? Jeez. No Kate Winslet admirer, I gather.
334. glendajean - April 13, 1999 - 2:15 PM PT
1) not socializing
2) don't you think the name of this thread ought to be "Jane, you ignorant slut" or in memory of Monty Python, "The confrontation room is down the hall?"
335. glendajean - April 13, 1999 - 2:16 PM PT
Outside of New Orleans, AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE.
336. cllrdr - April 13, 1999 - 2:17 PM PT
"Last night, my new friend karen, wanted to be "hugged" because she was so "down" about THE IMPEACHED PRESIDENT being held in CONTEMPT.
I said no thanks."
Calling Leo Buscaglia! Emergency! Emergency!
337. glendajean - April 13, 1999 - 2:19 PM PT
cllrdr (and you can always call me Miss Jean), Leo B is dead.
338. RosettaStone - April 13, 1999 - 2:20 PM PT
David: You fit right in at TT. They all adore you. So different from here!
339. benear - April 13, 1999 - 2:21 PM PT
cllr, notice I said, "yet". I assume while I am surfing around trying to fill all the hours in my 7 hour work day, I will develop a taste for TT. I mean, look what happened here.
I already like a lot of the writing and features in Salon much better than in Slate. (can I say that in the Fray?)
340. RosettaStone - April 13, 1999 - 2:24 PM PT
benair: No you can't because, according to Irv, Slate's editor Michael Kinsley reads every post and has to be tied down by his assistant to keep from posting here. LOL
341. RosettaStone - April 13, 1999 - 2:25 PM PT
soo sorry about misspelling your name.
342. benear - April 13, 1999 - 2:28 PM PT
OK. I take it back. Oops, too late.
But, Officer CalGal, it was a typo.
OH! OH! those cuffs are hurting my wrists.
I demand to speak with my attorney. The bastards can start earning that $60K a week.
I'll see you all .....
343. CalGal - April 13, 1999 - 2:41 PM PT
NARK!!
11231. JJBiener - April 13, 1999 - 1:41 PM PT
TS - Now THAT was funny.
11232. TrialShark - April 13, 1999 - 2:23 PM PT
Rosie --
I calm you down and I make Boba laugh. My day is complete.
It's such a joy to spread happiness and tranquility throughout the Fray. [g]
11233. JJBiener - April 13, 1999 - 2:32 PM PT
TS - You are the absolute reincarnation of Mother Theresa.
344. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 2:48 PM PT
Cal:
Why don't you just loosen up and give me a lap-dance?
345. cllrdr - April 13, 1999 - 5:22 PM PT
"You can't handle a lap dance!"
(Thanks, Jack)
346. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 6:39 PM PT
Jack Nicholson?
LOL.
347. OhioSTOPAS - April 13, 1999 - 7:02 PM PT
Reply to BobaFett Message #245, in which he abandons efforts to defend his repeated incorrect characterization of the "pled and fled" list (groans from Playpen participants; sorry, folks) and demands I defend a statement I apparently made weeks ago saying that less than half of the people on the list had nothing to do with "Chinagate".
Very briefly, off the top of my head, here are the potential witnesses not connected to "Chinagate":
Everyone at California Buddhist Hsi Lai temple (despite those sneaky nuns, any money donated was probably to call attention to the issue of supporting Taiwan AGAINST China) - about 25 people (including fundraiser Maria Hsai).
As noted in my earlier post, Americans with no alleged connection to Chinagate, including a number I list by name in another earlier post - about 25 people
Mr. Riady and others connected to him and the Lippo Group (who had interests of their own to advance with political donations) - about 10 people
(continued)
348. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 7:06 PM PT
"Everyone at California Buddhist Hsi Lai temple (despite those sneaky nuns, any money donated was probably to call attention to the issue of supporting Taiwan AGAINST China) - about 25 people (including fundraiser Maria Hsai)."
BASED ON WHAT EVIDENCE, OHIOHACK?
JUST ANOTHER HUNCH OF YOURS, I SUPPOSE?
349. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 7:07 PM PT
FUNNY, OHIOHACK, THOSE NUNS TOOK THE FIFTH AMENDMENT.
AND CHINA HAD A PLAN TO INFLUENCE THE AMERICAN ELECTIONS THROUGH STRAW-MEN DONORS.
TAIWAN DIDN'T.
What a jerkoff!!!!!!
350. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 7:10 PM PT
"As noted in my earlier post, Americans with no alleged connection to Chinagate, including a number I list by name in another earlier post - about 25 people"
WRONG. YOU LISTED SEVEN NAMES, AND ONE NAME WAS CHINESE!!!!!
"Mr. Riady and others connected to him and the Lippo Group (who had interests of their own to advance with political donations) - about 10 people"
YOU CAN KEEP ASSERTING THIS TILL YOU'RE BLUE IN THE FACE. THE RIADYS ARE CONNECTED TO CHINESE INTELLIGENCE THROUGH THEIR CO-OWNERSHIP OF THE HONG KONG EXPORT BANK (THEY AND THE CHINESE SECRET INTELLIGENCE SERVICE OWN IT). THE RIADYS ARE THE MAIN SUSPECTS AMONG THE FOREIGN CORPORATIONS AIDING CHINA IN ITS PLAN TO INFLUENCE THE 96 ELECTIONS.
351. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 7:11 PM PT
"Everyone at California Buddhist Hsi Lai temple (despite those sneaky nuns, any money donated was probably to call attention to the issue of supporting Taiwan AGAINST China) - about 25 people (including fundraiser Maria Hsai)."
NOT ONLY ARE THE NUNS SUSPECTED TO BE STRAW MEN DONORS FOR CHINA (SEE ABOVE POST), THERE ARE ONLY EIGHT NUNS, NOT "about 25 people."
352. cllrdr - April 13, 1999 - 7:12 PM PT
"Making Solopsism Work For You," a dynamic new self-help best-seller by Bobo Fete.
353. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 7:15 PM PT
The OhioHack way to "prove" that less than half of the 95 are connected to Chinagate:
Assert without evidence the Buddhist Nuns aren't involved. Then say that there are "about 25 of them" when in fact there are EIGHT.
Assert that the Riady family "has its own unrelated reasons" for donating, despite the fact that the CIA has noted their strong links to the Chinese Intelligence Services, and that they were the main foreign corp. suspects in Chinagate.
Assert that you earlier posted the names of "25" Americans having nothing to do with Chinagate, when in fact you listed SEVEN names, and one of those names was in fact Chinese.
354. OhioSTOPAS - April 13, 1999 - 7:17 PM PT
348 asks "based on what evidence?"
On this evidence, an article quoting Wolf Blitzer of CNN reporting that the Hsi Lai funds were an effort to influence American policy in favor of Taiwan against China.
On what evidence do you base your implication that the Hsi Lai money was routed from China?
355. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 7:20 PM PT
347. OhioSTOPAS - April 13, 1999 - 7:02 PM PT
...
As noted in my earlier post, Americans with no alleged connection to Chinagate, including a number I list by name in another earlier post - about 25 people
"ABOUT 25 PEOPLE." LET'S COUNT :
257. OhioSTOPAS - April 13, 1999 - 10:19 AM PT
Nora and Gene Lum: Owners of an Oklahoma gas pipeline company,
Dynamic Energy Resources, who last year pleaded guilty to laundering
$50,000 in illegal donations to congressional campaigns in 1994. (Fifth Amendment)
Larry Wong: A board member of Dynamic Energy Resources. (Fifth
Amendment)
Gilbert Colon: Former head of the Commerce Department's Minority
Business Development Agency, Colon was hired by Dynamic Energy in
August 1994. Colon received a $3,000 check from Dynamic on Sept. 19,
and four days later, he and his wife, Cheryl, gave $3,000 for the reelection of Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.), which has been returned. (Fifth Amendment)
Michael Brown: Son of late Commerce Secretary Ronald H. Brown. He
pleaded guilty on Aug. 28, 1997, to making illegal contributions by
providing $3,000 for colleagues to contribute in a 1994 election
campaign. (Fifth Amendment)
Nolanda Hill: A former business partner of Ronald H. Brown, Hill has
been indicted on separate fraud charges. She alleges that Brown told her domestic companies were being solicited for campaign contributions in exchange for being included on trade missions abroad. (Fifth Amendment)
Charles Intriago: Former federal prosecutor and publisher of watchdog
newsletter "Money Laundering Alert." His solicitations for Democratic
campaigns have come under Justice Department and committee scrutiny.
Fifth Amendment)
Terri Bradley: A secretary fined for making political donations for her employer, Thomas Kramer, a Miami Beach developer and German citizen. (Fifth Amendment)
356. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 7:25 PM PT
Funny, Ohio, but that article also notes that:
"Sources say this is what investigators believe really happened: Huang and Hsia were upset that the Gore fund-raiser had fallen far short of their quota. Fearing embarrassment for themselves and the temple, Hsia called the temple the next day and said Huang needed $55,000 fast. Within the next few hours, nuns wrote personal checks, most for $5,000. Huang and Hsia returned that evening to collect the money," pens Blitzer.
When the temple immediately reimbursed the nuns for the campaign contributions, it violated the law. That's money laundering. But it's unclear that temple leaders knew this. Giving gifts and money to those who lead and have supported your cause is nothing unusual in the Buddhist culture. The fact that John Huang may have abused this tradition and mislead the Temple is clear. "
HILARIOUS!!! JOHN HUANG, THE CENTRAL SUSPECT IN THE CHINAGATE PROBE, ARRANGED THE FUNDRAISER, AND YET OHIOHACK ASSERTS "THOSE NUNS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH CHINAGATE!!!"
Uh huh.
How old is that article, OhioHack? What is that, from the first week the story broke?
HUANG AND HSIA ARE AT THE CENTER OF CHINAGATE. DO YOU WANT ME TO POST, FOR THE THRID TIME, THE NEW YORK TIMES ARTICLE CALLING HUNG, HSIA, CHUNG, AND TRIE THE FOUR BIGGEST FISH IN THE SCANDAL?
357. OhioSTOPAS - April 13, 1999 - 7:25 PM PT
350 - Read #347 more carefully. I didn't say I LISTED 25 names. I said I said there were about 25 in one post, and I listed a number of them (you went back and counted seven) in another post.
And yes, one of the persons I listed (actually, I think three) HAS A NAME OF CHINESE ORIGIN!!! Is it stupidity or bigotry that makes you think this is significant?
On what evidence do you base your implication that these three Oklahomans of Chinese ancestry are actually Chinese or Taiwanese nationals?
358. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 7:28 PM PT
Hilarious!!!!
A fundraiser arranged by Riady employee/FBI surveillee John Huang "isn't related to Chinagate!"
Hey Ohio!!!
Maybe CHINA isn't related to Chinagate!!! Then you'd really destroy my list, huh???!!
IDIOT. YOu read the first two lines of an article and don't finish it.
D'Oh!!!!
359. OhioSTOPAS - April 13, 1999 - 7:28 PM PT
And, for what it's worth, I posted 8 names, not 7.
360. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 7:29 PM PT
OHIO:
It was your original assertion that you KNEW that certain names weren't involved in Chinagage just by looking at them (you said the article, by itself, PROVED this). I assume you were just counting NON-CHINESE names yourself.
Which is why I have to adopt the ridiculous counter-tactic of counting up the Chinese names.
361. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 7:33 PM PT
Well, Moron, Backing off your assertion that Huang and Hsia have "nothing to do with Chinagate"?
Hysterical.
Why don't you just shut your stupid mouth before you embarrass yourself further.
362. OhioSTOPAS - April 13, 1999 - 7:33 PM PT
350 again: As for Riady/Lippo and the Hong Kong Export Bank, I'd appreciate your advising where one might read something that supports your allegation.
Several Riady-connected political donations have been identified, for example the $400+K from the landscaper with the long name that I think is Mr. Riady's son in law. Has anyone provided evidence that any of these donations were routed from China?
363. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 7:35 PM PT
First things first, Nitwit.
Are you clinging to your absurd assertion that Huang/Hsia arranged Buddhist temple fundraiser "has nothing at all to do with Chinagate"?
An idiot with a search engine is a fucking dangerous thing.
364. benear - April 13, 1999 - 7:36 PM PT
CalCal: an amateur nark, at best.
As much as you boys want to drag me into the political fray, let me just say: "Having spent the last several hours in Officer CalCal's custody, it was, I kid you not, like being a 14 year old Albanian girl in a Serbian army camp. I am done with politics."
That's my official story and I am sticking too it.
365. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 7:38 PM PT
"350 again: As for Riady/Lippo and the Hong Kong Export Bank, I'd appreciate your advising where one might read something that supports your allegation."
An idiot that's been embarrassed one time too many now retreats from the "YOU'RE MAKING THAT UP DEFENSE" and retreats to the "PLease advise me of a citation" defense.
No, I won't provide you with a citation. Here's an idea: Go fucking read three articles on the subject and you'll find the evidence yourself. It's mentioned in every article on the Riady's and John Huang.
366. OhioSTOPAS - April 13, 1999 - 7:39 PM PT
356 - You call John Huang the "central figure in the Chinagate probe".
You are confusing John Huang with Johnny Chung.
Yes, what happened at the temple was illegal laundering of campaign contributions. I'm not disputing that, only saying that the money laundered did not come from China. If you have any evidence that it did (other than the involvement of a Chinese-surnamed American), let's hear it.
367. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 7:40 PM PT
Come on, OhioHack. Play your inevitable trump card:
"But how do you KNOW it's the same John Huang and Maria Hsia who are also partners in the other Chinagate scandals???!?!!? Those are pretty fucking common names, I'll bet!!!!!"
Good night, Moron. See you in the funny papers.
368. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 7:43 PM PT
No, OHIO ASSHOLE, THERE ARE FOUR CENTRAL FIGURES IN CHINAGATE:
CHUNG
HUANG
HSIA
TRIE
THE BUDDHIST TEMPLE INVOLVED TWO OUT OF THE FOUR.
I'm not "confusing" anything and you KNOW it. I just named Huang, Chung, Trie, and Hsia as the "four biggest fish."
You are just trying to throw up any post to lessen your embarrassment, hoping that someone who doesn't understand the argument will say, "HMmmm, maybe Boba IS confusing Huang with Chung."
Moron. Hack. Liar. Backpedaller.
369. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 7:44 PM PT
"I'm not disputing that, only saying that the money laundered did not come from China. If you have any evidence that it did (other than the involvement of a Chinese-surnamed American), let's hear it."
I don't know. Is that fact that Huang and Hsia are central suspects in Chinagate "evidence"? Or the fact that Huang was the Thomspon Committee's chief suspect?
370. benear - April 13, 1999 - 7:46 PM PT
I swear. I will just resist going toward the light.
371. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 7:46 PM PT
John Huang, according to Ohio, was funnelling money from TAIWAN, not from China, as the Thomspon Committee, Justice Department, FBI, and NYTimes believe.
Man, that Ohio is a fucking original thinker. And an idiot.
372. OhioSTOPAS - April 13, 1999 - 7:47 PM PT
351 and 353: I have assumed that the people listed at the end of the article as "no information known" are also connected with the Hsi Lai temple matter, leading to my estimate of 25 people. This assumption could be wrong. If you have information to the contrary, let me know.
By the way, if anyone's interested (I won't be shocked if you're not; hell, I'M not interested anymore) a link to the list under discussion appears in "US Politics", message number 10923.
373. OhioSTOPAS - April 13, 1999 - 7:53 PM PT
Well, Boba, I may or may not look for the articles you say support your assertions tomorrow morning. I don't think Huang, Trie or Hsai have been alleged to be connected to Chinese government money.
360 - I never said I was basing my opinion on a person's last name. The list contains some biographical information about most of the people listed, which is what I'm basing my statements on.
374. 109109 - April 13, 1999 - 7:57 PM PT
I am drowning in the minutiae, and I make this post with an admission that I know little of the Chinese connection funding the Clinto-Gore campaign. I know Boba's take.
Ohio, what is your take, in a meta-sense? What do you think the Chinese government was doing, if anything, and what knowledge do you think either DNC or administration officials had, if any?
I ask that you indulge me. I'll check in on a response tomorrow. Thanks in advance.
375. RosettaStone - April 13, 1999 - 8:00 PM PT
Ohio: How embarrassing for you. You really don't sound well tonight, at all.
Why don't you go over to freerepublic.com and look for some more of my old posts.
LOL
376. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 8:01 PM PT
Ohio:
"360 - I never said I was basing my opinion on a person's last name. The list contains some biographical information about most of the people listed, which is what I'm basing my statements on."
LIE. The autobiographical information in the article SAYS ABSOULUTELY NOTHING about why they were called forward, or what scandal they were involved in.
If you did not base your incorrect assertion on their names, then you must have based it on pure intuition, because there's nothing else in the bios to tell you either way. See the caption for John Huang below.
I *love* how you want to keep pretending that Lippo and Riady aren't involved. Funny, they're both connected to the number one suspect, Huang:
John Huang: A China-born U.S. citizen raised in Taiwan and former executive of the Lippo Group, a conglomerate controlled by the Riady banking family of Indonesia. Huang left Lippo to become deputy assistant secretary for international economic policy at the Commerce Department in June 1994. In December 1995, Huang resigned to become a fund-raiser for the Democratic National Committee. The Democrats returned $1.6 million of the more than $3 million he raised because the contributions were either illegal or suspicious. (Fifth Amendment)
PS: CHung is NOT our Number One suspect. In fact, the Thomspon committee DIDN'T EVEN CALL HIM AS A WITNESS-- he's a fairly RECENT discovery, and one who has panned out.
Do not be confused yourself. Chung is currently the most important COOPERATING WITNESS-- but from the beginning, John Huang has been suspect A-Number One.
377. incognito - April 13, 1999 - 8:02 PM PT
benear
Resiiiiiiiiist! Resiiiiiiiiiist!
378. OhioSTOPAS - April 13, 1999 - 8:02 PM PT
I'm going to finish Message #347 and sign off>.
Others I recall from the list as not connected to so-called "Chinagate":
Ted Sioeng, family and associates (Ted Sioeng was proven to have delivered foreign money, but to a Republican; see JadeGold's message 11168 in "US Politics".) - about 7 people
Cheyenne/Ariapo (spelling) Native American tribe - counts as 1 person on the list. (Gotta give me this one, Boba - the only people on the list with truly AMERICAN names!)
Webster Hubbell - 1 person (although size of two).
Is anyone on the list other than Johnny Chung alleged to have been involved in routing money from China to Clinton/Gore or the Democratic Party? I don't think so. Good night, everybody.
379. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 8:04 PM PT
Finally, Ohio:
A couple of weeks ago, when you were posting, I posted a LOOOOOONG NYT article on the Big Four, Chung, Huang, Hsia, and Trie.
Maybe you should try reading those articles I cite, eh?
380. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 8:08 PM PT
A funny admission:
When questioned how he got "about 25 nuns," rather than the EIGHT NAMED IN THE WP ARTICLE, Ohio says lamely:
351 and 353: I have assumed that the people listed at the end of the article as "no information known" are also connected with the Hsi Lai temple matter, leading to my estimate of 25 people. This assumption could be wrong. If you have information to the contrary, let me know.
In other words:
I just ASSUMED that people I knew nothing about were not involved in Chinagage. I had NO EVIDENCE for this, as the article I have been relying upon throughout this debacle said, flatly (no information available) for each of these names.
Nevertheless, in order to try to escape from my collosal embarrassment, I will simply ASSUME without evidence that they fit my desired category of "not involved in Chinagate."
Hey Ohio:
I'm going to just "ASSUME" that every single person in China is involved. Now I have a billion or so more suspects.
I win.
I think I'll also assume this is all somehow related to the Nazi Gold.
381. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 8:10 PM PT
PS, OHIO:
Your whole stupid article comes from the "American Journal of Politics" or something like that, an organization I NEVER heard of but which appears to be a very bad propaganda website.
So, in honor of the Jaded One:
American Journal of Politics.
LOL.
382. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 8:18 PM PT
Okay. Let's see what Ohio says. He says:
"Is anyone on the list other than Johnny Chung alleged to have been involved in routing money from China to Clinton/Gore or the Democratic Party? I don't think so."
More specifically he says:
"I don't think Huang, Trie or Hsai have been alleged to be connected to Chinese government money."
Thank God for Jeff Gerth:
December 15, 1998
Evidence of China Plan to Buy Entree to U.S. Technology
By JEFF GERTH, DAVID JOHNSTON and DON VAN NATTA Jr.
ASHINGTON -- After a two-year investigation of Chinese political contributions to the 1996 election, Federal authorities have unearthed new evidence that Beijing's efforts were part of a broader campaign to obtain access to American high technology, according to lawyers and investigators.
While still incomplete, the evidence provides a clearer understanding of China's motivations -- and one that differs substantially from the initial view of Federal investigators and a Senate committee that China intended to influence the outcome of particular races, including President Clinton's re-election.
Investigators now believe the money was intended to enhance the political standing of those passing along the contributions to Democratic causes, to give them clout in arguing for favorable policies on trade and technology.
"Technology was a primary motive," said a senior Justice Department official who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
383. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 8:20 PM PT
NOW FOR THE GOOD STUFF:
...
While they were sparing in details, the officials investigating the China connection said they have learned of additional links between the fund raisers who arranged the suspect donations and Chinese executives and officials involved in acquiring Western technology with military uses. They said the inquiry has documented more active and substantial contacts between fund raisers like
Yah Lin Trie and Chinese officials than was previously known.
[THERE'S THE FIRST ONE: TRIE. DO YOU HAVE ANY DOUBT WE'LL FIND THE OTHERS? WELL, LET'S KEEP GOING.]
...
A Closer Look At 3 Fund Raisers
Eventually, investigators focused on the activities of three figures: John Huang,
[WHOOPS. THERE'S JOHN HUANG. TWO]
a former Commerce Department official who became a leading fund raiser for the Democratic Party; Trie, who is known as Charlie, a close friend of Clinton's from Arkansas, and Chung, a California entrepreneur.
The Democratic Party, President Clinton's legal defense fund [!!!!] and Democratic candidates returned several million dollars in contributions connected to the three. There is no indication that the campaigns or the White House knew that Chinese businesses or officials were behind any of the donations.
A Senate investigation of the contributions earlier this year raised questions about the role of the Chinese Government, but lacked the banking records and intelligence information that was subsequently made available to the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
384. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 8:23 PM PT
Senator Fred Thompson, the Tennessee Republican who was chairman of last year's Senate inquiry into campaign finance abuses, was the first to raise the alarm about China's possible role in the 1996 elections. He initially asserted that the Chinese plan influenced the 1996 Presidential and Congressional elections, as well as state elections.
Senator Thompson said in a recent interview that he now also believes that the "China plan" was aimed at obtaining American technology.
"They were attempting not only to ingratiate themselves politically but in the process to develop contacts and further relationships with companies in the U.S. who had the same technology export interest," he said.
One of most intriguing new pieces of evidence involves Trie, who served on a Presidential commission on Asian trade policy.
Trie is said to have met in Beijing with Chinese officials and asked for $1 million that could be used for political activities in the United States. Their response could not be learned.
According to the investigators, Trie told associates he had Chinese backing.
[OKAY, HE MET WITH CHINESE OFFICIALS IN BEIJING AND ASKED FOR $1 MILLION TO FUNNEL TO CLINTON. BUT DID HE GET IT? LET'S READ ON:]
He eventually raised or contributed more than $1 million to Democratic Party causes.
[WHOOPS-ADAISY! THERE'S A FUCKING SHOCKER, HUH?]
The campaign inquiry is now examining whether any of this money originated with Chinese companies or officials. Records show that Trie received almost $1 million from a Macao businessman with ties to the Chinese Government. [WHOOPS, THERE'S THAT MACAO CONNECTION WE WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER, OHIO. REMEMBER HOW YOU SAID IT WAS RIDICULOUS THAT CHINA WOULD FUNNEL MONEY THROUGH A MACAO NATIONAL?]
Trie's lawyer, Reid Weingarten, said he knew nothing of Trie's activities in China.
385. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 8:26 PM PT
Investigators say they have learned more about another important figure in the case, Lieut. Col. Liu Chaoying, a Chinese military officer and aerospace executive. The California entrepreneur who raised money for the Democrats, Chung, has already told investigators that he took money from Ms. Liu knowing that it came from the Chinese military.
Now, investigators say, they have a deeper understanding of Ms. Liu's efforts to help Chinese companies obtain American technology with military uses.
In recent weeks, Chung has told investigators that he tried to arrange meetings for her with American aerospace companies when she visited the United States in 1996.
Ms. Liu did not return a telephone call to her office in Hong Kong.
[NOW LET'S HEAR SOME MORE ABOUT JOHN HUANG:]
There is also new information about Huang, who worked as a banker in Los Angeles before joining the Clinton Administration. Officials said he was overheard on government surveillance equipment discussing political donations with a Chinese official at the Los Angeles consulate. [!!!!!]
[HUANG WAS DISCUSSING POLITICAL DONATIONS WITH A CHINESE OFFICIAL WHILE HE WAS BEING SURVEILLED BY THE FBI. NAH, OHIO, HE'S PROBABLY NOT INVOLVED, RIGHT?
DIDN'T YOU JUST SAY THAT YOU "NEVER HEARD" HUANG WAS INVOLVED WITH CHINA? HUH? DIDN'T YOU SAY THAT?]
Details of his conversation could not be learned. Huang subsequently joined the Commerce Department as a mid-level trade official. Because of his previous work as a banker in Hong Kong, he was barred from participating in decisions about China.
[NOT TAIWAN, OHIO. CHINA.]
Nonetheless, officials said, Huang obtained at least one secret Government report on exports of military-related technology to China, which he kept in his office safe.
Huang's lawyer, Ty Cobb, did not reply to questions about these matters. Huang has not been charged with wrongdoing, but $1.6 milli
386. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 8:29 PM PT
but $1.6 million of the $3.4 million he raised was returned by the Democratic Party because of unanswered questions about its origins.
...
Tracing Chinese Money To a Fund Raiser
These Chinese policy goals are central to understanding the motivations of Ms. Liu, the first person who provided a link between Chinese money and Democratic donations. She works for a Hong Kong unit of China Aerospace, which is "tasked to acquire U.S. technology by the Chinese Defense Ministry," according to a 1997 Commerce Department affidavit filed in support of a search warrant in Federal court in northern California.
In her previous jobs, at other China Aerospace subsidiaries, Ms. Liu helped market sensitive missile technology in countries like Pakistan, according to Government documents and officials. She also made secret trips into the United States in pursuit of American technology and was frequently monitored by American intelligence agents, according to the officials and documents.
Ms. Liu was not a focus of last year's Senate hearings that investigated campaign finance abuses.
But the Senate inquiry hinted that major Democratic donors like Chung, Trie and Ted Sieong, a Southern California businessman, may have been working with the Chinese Government or acting as conduits for Chinese money. The donors all denied any wrongdoing and the Republican-controlled Senate committee was never able to trace the sources of their money beyond corporate bank accounts in Hong Kong.
However, the F.B.I. has now been able to go further. For example, it found that Ms. Liu made payments to Chung's Hong Kong bank account, according to officials and documents.
Chung told investigators that Ms. Liu told him about her ties to the Chinese military, where her father, Gen. Liu Huaqing, was the senior official on the central military commission until last year. Gen. Huaqing personally ordered an investigation into the January 1995 e
387. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 8:31 PM PT
I think I've done enough damage to our Number Two Ranking Hack.
Go report to your supervisor JadeConceptual, Ohio. You need a refresher course.
I think they should call the bullpen and have Trial "Shark" start warming up his arm. I think he's going to have to replace you as the Number Two Hack.
388. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 8:37 PM PT
OHIO'S HUMILATION: THE CONDENSED VERSION
Ohio Says:
373. OhioSTOPAS - April 13, 1999 - 7:53 PM PT
Well, Boba, I may or may not look for the articles you say support your assertions tomorrow morning. I don't think Huang, Trie or Hsai have been alleged to be connected to Chinese government money.
THE NEW YORK TIMES RESPONDS:
While still incomplete, the evidence provides a clearer understanding of China's motivations -- and one that differs substantially from the initial view of Federal investigators and a Senate committee that China intended to influence the outcome of particular races, including President Clinton's re-election.
A Closer Look At 3 Fund Raisers
Eventually, investigators focused on the activities of three figures: JOHN HUANG, a former Commerce Department official who became a leading fund raiser for the Democratic Party; TRIE, who is known as Charlie, a close friend of Clinton's from Arkansas, and Chung, a California entrepreneur.
389. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 8:45 PM PT
One last word (I swear!!!):
The reason you haven't "heard about" any of this, OhioHack, is because you don't read the New York Times or Washington Post, but rather rely on your idiot talking Hacks on Rivera and believe every word they say.
Did you note the date on that last article? That was a DECEMBER article, Ohio. This isn't old news. No one's trying to hide it from you.
In fact, every time a new story breaks, they repost all of these articles conveniently. (You can find the article now but it takes a little hunting. Go to Special reports, then to Campaign Finance, then find the heading for "China Donations.")
The last time a story broke and you once again, with NO INFORMATION AT ALL, started calling me a liar, I BEGGED you to just go fucking read the articles. I don't enjoy these "Yes it is/No it isn't" festivals any more than you do.
Well, I guess I DO enjoy them more, because I'm always proven right. But that's irrelevant.
Now, idiot, before you open your mouth again to claim I'm getting "all my information from the television or talk radio," do yourself a favor and get some of YOUR information from a source other than tv or talk radio.
Go to the New York Times. It's informative-- AND fun.
390. doogie - April 13, 1999 - 8:50 PM PT
Bobafett:
If this controversy had involved a country other than China (Israel, perhaps) would you dwell on it this much?
391. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 8:53 PM PT
The article can be found here: http://www.nytimes.com/library/politics/121598donate.html
Doogie Moron:
Yes, I'm a raving Sinophobe. The Yellow Peril is coming, and I've got a bunker out in the back yard for when they come swarming.
Fucking idiot.
The only response you imbeciles have is racism.
392. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 8:54 PM PT
"If this controversy had involved a country other than China (Israel, perhaps) would you dwell on it this much?"
Yes. Jews are of course entitled to the same racism.
393. doogie - April 13, 1999 - 9:07 PM PT
BobaFett:
My insinuation was merely that this situation is probably more common than you think. AIPAC is probably the best example of it... You seem a tad bit defensive.
394. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 9:10 PM PT
Doogie:
Yeah. "Everybody does it."
PS, Idiot: I could give a shit that China's doing it. I EXPECT them to do it. Every country does this shit, including our own.
The problem is we have a President who sells high technology to our most dangerous potential enemy for campaign donations.
395. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 9:11 PM PT
...and I have no grudge against Israel doing it, either. But I do want people like Pollard locked away for life when they get caught.
The only country I get pissed off about when I hear about this is France.
396. doogie - April 13, 1999 - 9:15 PM PT
Why France?
397. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 9:17 PM PT
Francophobia.
What else?
398. doogie - April 13, 1999 - 9:34 PM PT
BobaFett -
The article you quote twice mentions that
"The Democratic Party, President Clinton's legal defense fund and Democratic candidates returned several million dollars in contributions connected to the three. There is no indication that the campaigns or the White House knew that Chinese businesses or officials were behind any of the donations."
How does this jive with your understanding of "the problem:"
"...we have a President who sells high technology to our most dangerous potential enemy for campaign donations."
399. BobaFett - April 13, 1999 - 9:36 PM PT
Doogie:
Yah. They "didn't know."
To see what a judge thought of the "they didn't know" defense, go to the article (the web address is posted above) and read what the Judge said about the DNC when he sentenced Johnny Chung.
400. OhioSTOPAS - April 14, 1999 - 5:28 AM PT
BobaFett: I stand corrected. As you point out, it has been alleged that Charlie Trie routed Chinese money to the Democrats. Thanks for the cite.