1. IrvingSnodgrass - Jan. 27, 1999 - 10:51 AM PT
The following is from Slate's “International Papers”:
Despite the return of Monica, whose photograph in a baseball cap competed with that of the pope in a Mexican sombrero for front-page display around the world, the main story across Asia and Europe Monday was the Olympics corruption scandal. In Australia, where the subject is particularly sensitive because of the doubtful means by which Sydney won the right to host the 2000 Olympic Games, the Sydney Morning Herald and the Age of Melbourne both used editorials to call for full exposure of the truth.
"The more closely Sydney's campaign to win the right to host the 2000 Olympics is examined, the more unpleasant it looks," the Herald said. "That is no reason, though, to try to hide or avoid facing a full examination of the Sydney bid. On the contrary, the sooner the air is cleared the better. The Games themselves must be able to proceed unclouded by unresolved scandal." The paper added tha however dismaying it was to discover that Sydney might not have won the 2000 Olympics on merit alone, the task now was clear: "All details in relation to the Sydney bid should be disclosed. This disclosure should be part of Sydney's commitment to the full reform of the IOC itself, so that it becomes a modern organisation designed to be open and accountable, not the cosy, corruption-prone 'family' it has been."
In an editorial titled "Honesty is still the best policy," the Age deplored the efforts of Australian Olympic officials to keep details of their Olympic bid secret and said that the principal issue is one of transparency. While it is entirely appropriate that international delegates should be treated to a high standard of accommodation and dining and receive some token gifts, it said, "the test, surely, is whether those giving or receiving the gifts would want it publicly known." It added, "The possibility that it might become p
2. CalGal - Jan. 27, 1999 - 11:12 AM PT
For anyone who is interested reading up on it, the Time report has a decent writeup.
For a list of current articles, the CNN/SI coverage is good. This link should have given you a search results list for Olympic IOC, with the first one being about police copter rides in Nagano.
Time mentions something I hadn't known--that until 1984, the Olympics had started to be considered as more of a burden than a boon. Ueberroth's successful LA games changed the stakes. Corruption followed close behind.
Does anyone have any additional information about the costs and profits of the Olympics throughout time? I'm imagining that, until the 70s, it was probably a negligible factor.
Also, to save me looking it up--who was IOC chairman before Samaranch? Brundage, or was someone in between?
3. JaDeGoLd - Jan. 27, 1999 - 11:15 AM PT
Boycott the Salt Lake City Games.
Can that old fascist Sammaranch.
4. stostosto - Jan. 27, 1999 - 11:23 AM PT
Jade
Hear, hear!
And can the IOC as well.
5. stostosto - Jan. 27, 1999 - 11:53 AM PT
I have a suggestion that forever will put an end to the IOC's grip of the most important global sports event. (After the soccer world cup, of course).
This committe of self-appointed (members are selected by the committee itself), corrupt and incompetent people is totally superfluous. What does it contribute? Nothing. What does it have? Only one thing: The exclusive rights to the name of the Olympic Games plus the symbol of the rings. It's basically a brand owner. It is only because no one has launched a serious competing brand that it retains this monopoly. A monopoly which, unlike most other monopolists, is not even checked by any accountability to governments or - as it is self-appointing - electorate. And a monopoly whose brand is a still more formidable cash cow as media expand globally and commercially and are scrambling for the rights to attention grabbing events.
So, the solution is: Beat it off the market. The disclosures of corruption are eroding its already precarious goodwill faster than you can say Ben Johnson. It should be no match for a seriously thought-out, well marketed alternative event. You only need three things: Media, athletes and official recognition. Media and athletes will jump at the opportunity to make a better deal than with the IOC monopoly. And politicians all over the world will jump at the opportunity to initiate the "Real Olympics". Think about it: This is the kind of thing that Bill Clinton has been looking for to save the reputation of his presidency.
If I were him, I would call the UN secretary general, the leaders of G-7 plus Russia, China, India, Brazil, and South Africa to a founding meeting for a global sporting event which is to celebrate the best of mankind in a spirit of mutual respect and understanding, (bla bla you get the picture). If we weren't already so close to it, 2000 would be the perfect time for such a "new start" for sports of mankind.
The new "real"
6. stostosto - Jan. 27, 1999 - 11:53 AM PT
The new "real" IOC should of course be made politically accountable with mandatory transparency and access for the public to all its files.
One thing wouldn't be a problem: Finding places willing to host these refreshingly corruption free games.
7. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 27, 1999 - 11:57 AM PT
Oh, come on, so much Scandinavian earnestness. Let the IOC remain an untouched haven of corruption and venality. What difference does it make?
8. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 27, 1999 - 11:57 AM PT
I mean, does it matter whether the Olympics are held in Salt Lake City or Copenhagen or Shanghai, as long as the facilities are there?
9. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 27, 1999 - 12:08 PM PT
There are two criteria for choosing a city for the Olympic games:
(1) that the roof, if any, in the city's stadiums don't collapse on the athletes & spectators.
(2) that Israeli atheletes are safe from assassination by terrorists.
10. CalGal - Jan. 27, 1999 - 12:09 PM PT
Stostosto,
If the corruption is, as Time asserts, due to the fact that the Olympics are a huge boon to any country or city, then surely we will find many cities willing to host the Olympics. In fact, we have. They have contributed nicely to the corruption. If you think the corruption won't continue to occur just because the IOC is out of the way, you're deluding yourself.
If the Olympics continue to move from city to city, then I suggest the bidding method be formalized. This will remove the corruption angle. Cities can bid for Olympic rights just as networks bid for broadcast rights to football or baseball.
As for your dream of a corruption-free Olympics.....please. You think this little bribery scandal is the only thing keeping us from the pure Olympic ideal?
11. stostosto - Jan. 27, 1999 - 12:49 PM PT
CalGie
Your suggestion of a formal bidding procedure is fine. Everything that could put accountability to any organization running any important event is a welcome thing, imo.
And I am not totally naïve. (Somewhat, but not totally). What bugs me is how fantastically free of accountability the IOC is. Not by the market. Nor by governments. Nor by athletes. Nor by athlete's organization. Only weapon they can be threatened with is exit. As is demonstrated by the FIFA's refusal to let the best soccer players compete in the Olympics. The olympic soccer tournament is restricted to players under the age of 23. Of course this is not because the FIFA dislikes the ways of the IOC. (It is probably as corrupt itself, though it is not a self-supplying entity).
But it likes to retain *its* monopoly on hosting the one sporting event that exceeds the TV attendance for the Olympics, namely the World Cup.
However, many other sports are dependant on the Olympics for attention, and sponsors.
12. Ronski - Jan. 27, 1999 - 1:01 PM PT
The Olympic Committee has proven itself a blathering bunch of hypocrites time and again, witness holding the games in Munich after the infamous Nuremburg laws had been passed, and a few years ago by insisting they had a monopoly on the word "olympics" and suing the organizers of what became the Gay Games.
13. CalGal - Jan. 27, 1999 - 1:17 PM PT
Ronski,
Oh, agreed. While I am an Olympic Games junkie, I place the "Olympic dream" as an advertising term on a par with "the magic of Disneyland".
Sto,
The problem with global organizations is the same as their advantage-- they have no one to answer to.
Consider--how can the US protest if Samaranch refuses to resign? Who is his boss? No one. So how do they show their displeasure? Boycott the games? We saw how successful *that* was. Besides, the IOC isn't hurt by this action. It merely destroys the Games for everyone else, particularly the city hosting the games. To say nothing of the devastating harm done to the US athletes.
In a sense, the Olympics are what they are *because* of the absolute and untouchable power of the IOC. IMO and FWIW, of course.
14. stostosto - Jan. 27, 1999 - 1:31 PM PT
"Consider--how can the US protest if Samaranch refuses to resign? Who is his boss? No one. So how do they show their displeasure? Boycott the games? We saw how successful *that* was."
My point exactly.
What we need is an *alternative* to the IOC monopoly. I said this only takes media, athletes and official recognition. Then mythology will soon follow.
"In a sense, the Olympics are what they are *because* of the absolute and untouchable power of the IOC. "
Yes, well. They may be nothing but brand owners. But it's a formidable brand. And it will not be easy cobbling a coalition for a "new Olympics" together. That's why I think it's a job for an enterprising, powerful, energetic and smooth-talking politician like Bill Clinton.
If in this process they can come up with a good way of holding international organizations accountable, that would be great. There are other bodies that could do with some of that.
15. stostosto - Jan. 27, 1999 - 1:35 PM PT
And we will see a lot more activity of all kinds in international organizations of all kinds in this little world of ours. From UN to EU to ASEAN to OSCE to MERCOSUR, OAS, IMF, WB, NAFTA, G-7, -8, -9, -24 etc. etc.
16. BobaFett - Jan. 27, 1999 - 1:35 PM PT
Prediction:
This thread will be RIPped before post 100.
17. jonesatlaw - Jan. 27, 1999 - 1:36 PM PT
It is interesting that something which is supposed to be so dedicated to promoting an ideal of shared humanity, and world commonality, is so ruthlessly nationalistic in practice, and so venial in its business. My perceptions are admittedly skewed by the relentlessly jingoistic television coverage in the US. Here we see the unfortunate American (insert sport here) fall to 38th place, with full coverage, and 38 second snippets of the medalists and the award ceremony. There are commercials galore and business tie-ins that would make a Madam blush for their crass self promotion.
Either we should submit to full commericalization and hoopla- "The Addidas team is entering the opening ceremony followed by the huge Nike contingent...." or the IOC must be reigned in.
I vote for UN control of the IOC as part of the Sectretariat, and that profits be put back into UN programs for health, sport and fitness. Rotation of the games should paralell UN methodolgy for dividing their plums. Perhaps olympic cities could be constructed or declared for each continent or region.
18. stostosto - Jan. 27, 1999 - 1:53 PM PT
jones
I agree with your statements on nationalist brouhaha in the Olympics. I have always thought sport is a substitute for war, especially in these boring democratic, rich and peaceful parts of the world. That, imo, partly explains its huge growth potential. (Where else is it 100% OK to triumph by mercilessly trouncing your adversary?)
But it also has the potential to prop up nationalist feelings and dubious regimes - Hitler's example (mentioned by Ronski) is well publicized, and what with the perfectly insane east German obsession with winning gold medals at all costs?
Your UN suggestions are good.
19. CalGal - Jan. 27, 1999 - 1:56 PM PT
Sto,
Do away with the Olympics and nothing will ever replace its mystique. Certainly not in our lifetime.
Suppose, however, that you are right. Suppose that a new, wondrous global sporting event is launched and immediately replaces the Olympics in our hearts and minds as the ultimate pinnacle of athletic success. The pinnacle that makes a mockery of world records and world championships and bestows that absolute mark of achievement, the cover of a Wheaties box.
Well, then. Corruption is not far behind. It's the mystique and the aura that bestow the absolute power. Surely this is stating the obvious.
20. stostosto - Jan. 27, 1999 - 2:15 PM PT
CalGie Darling
Don't be such a misanthropist.
I said nothing of discarding world records and championships. I love sports as much as the next Joe Sixpack. I mean LOVE. It gratifies my warring instincts, among other.
And there will always be people trying to milk any major event. My whole point is to make this more difficult. How do you do that? By making powerful insider people accountable. This has been done with government in many democratic countries - not always equally successful of course. But that is no reason not to try.
The IOC setup is a recipe for corruption. Not only the spoils are humongous (as you correctly cite as a fertilizer of corruption), but the IOC is a closed society, not accountable to anyone - which is another perhaps even more powerful fertilizer.
This second source of corruption needs to be checked, and, surely it is not impossible to do so.
21. CalGal - Jan. 27, 1999 - 2:55 PM PT
Sto,
????
I know you said nothing of discarding world records and championships. You are missing my point. It is a not uncommon occurrence in my life. I shall try again.
Kurt Browning. Dan Jansen. Linda Jezek. Three athletes who are, still, renowned in their field. But Jansen--who utterly dominated his sport for a decade--is not nearly as well known as his fellow skaters Bonnie Blair and Eric Heiden--and most people who know of him at all know him because he did so poorly in 88 because his sister had just died. When he finally did win his one gold, it meant very little. Linda Jezek I doubt you could identify at all--yet had the US not boycotted the 1980 Olympics she probably would have won golds in both the backstroke events and have the name recognition that, say, John Nabor has (not great, but damn good for a swimmer). Kurt Browning is better known because of the current obsession we have with pro figure skating, but he'll never have the aura of Hamilton or Boitano (and he's straight!).
Mary Lou Retton, otoh, wouldn't have even made the finals had the Russians and Chinese come to town in 84. As it was, the Romanian who came in second place wuz robbed by questionable judging. But she is in the pantheon forever.
So--a gold medal in Olympics can quite often distort the name recognition factor away from the true champion and reward the one-time hack who got lucky. Fortunately, it doesn't happen often. But that's what I meant about mockery.
22. CalGal - Jan. 27, 1999 - 2:56 PM PT
"The IOC setup is a recipe for corruption. Not only the spoils are humongous (as you correctly cite as a fertilizer of corruption), but the IOC is a closed society, not accountable to anyone - which is another perhaps even more powerful fertilizer. "
The spoils are humongous. Full stop. In the end, there will always be someone or some organization that has the final authority--and that will be where the power accumulates. All your proposal does is move the power. I can think of no method to disperse the power imbalance that won't damage the Olympic mystique.
Although there may be some hope. Salt Lake City is seriously pissed off, they are hemorraging sponsors, they are very close to withdrawing from being a host. There are several cities who are willing to step in right now. The IOC will be scrutinized *extremely* closely during that selection process, if it occurs. They will also be hideously embarrassed if what is already the worst financial scandal in their history ends in the unprecedented withdrawal of a host city. This will force them to set up procedures that will be rigidly adhered to for the selection process and that should provide legitimacy for a while.
But if SLC doesn't withdraw, the IOC won't be punished sufficiently to submit to real change.
All of this is wild speculation, of course.
23. DaveCook - Jan. 28, 1999 - 5:19 AM PT
Wouldn't it be super fabulous if at the Salt Lake City Olympics, the girls Figure Skating champion won a dream date with Prince William of England instead of a gold medal?
[Unless it was some skanky Katarina Witt type, in which case she would get to meet Bill Clinton in a Little Rock hotel room].
24. PsychProf - Jan. 28, 1999 - 11:50 AM PT
Vote Yes
25. CalGal - Jan. 28, 1999 - 12:00 PM PT
Well, Samaranch can resign. But it's not going to fix the real problem.
Nor am I sure it should be fixed. Exposure and embarrassment every ten years or so ought to keep them marginally in line.
Plus, the economics of hosting the Olympics might change and fewer cities will be eager to sign up. I believe this was the case in the 70s, but I haven't had time to research it.
26. DaveCook - Jan. 28, 1999 - 5:49 PM PT
Also they could liven up the luge by letting a couple of young hogs loose on the luge run and having the lugers (lugists? lugies?) try to spear the hogs on the way down.
The bobsled would be more fun if they widened up the run and made three or four bobsleds go down at the same time, Ben Hur style. The guys in the middle could try to tip the other sleds over.
Next Up: Bloodsport Biathelon
27. FreeToChoose - Jan. 28, 1999 - 7:15 PM PT
CalGal
“Suppose that a new, wondrous global sporting event is launched and immediately replaces the Olympics in our hearts and minds as the ultimate pinnacle of athletic success.”
Actually, it has, unless by “us” you meant people other than me. Oh well. And I grudgingly admit that if Ultimate became the darling sport of a material portion of the world, that corruption might not be far behind.
28. CoralReef - Jan. 28, 1999 - 7:59 PM PT
I think most of the world considers world cup soccer the height of athletic success, not the Olympics. We focus so much on the Olympics because we are comparatively isolated when it comes to sports.
29. CalGal - Jan. 28, 1999 - 8:12 PM PT
Coral,
I'm imagining they only consider world cup soccer to the be the height of athletic success for soccer players. And maybe golf players because golf really isn't a sport and they need some way to feel good about themselves.
30. CoralReef - Jan. 28, 1999 - 8:18 PM PT
Golf is a sport if you carry your bag, not if you ride around in little carts.
31. CoralReef - Jan. 28, 1999 - 8:28 PM PT
A golfer walks about 7 miles, add carrying a heavy bag of clubs and the skill at hitting the ball which uses the same basic hand-eye coordination as baseball, and you got yourself a sport.
In fact, that's how I started playing. I was into baseball and went to a place where there was no such thing. My "skills" carried over to golf pretty easily.
Though it has overtones of a game like chess.
Trying to land a ball within a few feet of where you want it from 200 yards out is not easy. There is a lot of mental concentration, visualization and preciseness that goes into real golf, all while pouring enough sweat to convince anyone they were playing an actual sport. It mixes brute strength and careful measurement in a unique way.
32. CoralReef - Jan. 28, 1999 - 8:29 PM PT
blahblahblah, but at least we're closer to 100 and defeating boba's prediction.
33. CalGal - Jan. 28, 1999 - 8:34 PM PT
Well, lets talk real Olympics or the politics of Olympics.
No need to pollute the thread with mention of that dreadful four-letter sport.
34. CoralReef - Jan. 28, 1999 - 8:38 PM PT
The biggest nonsport I've ever played is rounders.
35. CoralReef - Jan. 28, 1999 - 8:45 PM PT
Message #17 Jonesatlaw, I'd like to see the Olympics covered as a news event, not as a proprietary right to a select number of stations. That would take a lot of the money out of it -- if that's the goal here.
36. CalGal - Jan. 28, 1999 - 8:45 PM PT
Now see? I just learned something.
But how come it's a nonsport?
37. CalGal - Jan. 28, 1999 - 8:48 PM PT
I don't think it has to be covered as a news event. But I like the idea of making the broadcast non-proprietary.
In fact, that would take the money out of a lot of sporting events.
38. PincherMartin - Jan. 29, 1999 - 2:53 AM PT
Dave Cook's Message #23 and Message #26 are too hilarious for words.
39. barryking - Feb. 1, 1999 - 7:02 AM PT
Editors of Slate,
If you were to conduct a survey whether IOC President Juan Antonia Samaranch should resign as President I would definitely vote a resounding Yes . The Olympic movement have been severely tarnished with so much rank commercialism along with some members receiving payments in order to gain favor. Samaranch represents the old image in that he allowed it to happened directly or indirectly. In order to regain Public esteem we need a person of integrity a no nonsense person who is apolitical . Perhaps a former non professional Olympian to be the President rotated every so many years among
the 6 continents . There are so many more issues that has to be addressed that one could go on and on . An editorial comment would be appreciated .
Barry King
40. cllrdr - Feb. 1, 1999 - 7:10 AM PT
DaveCook -- You're forgetting Synchronized Swimming. Teams should be put into the pool simultaneously and attempt to drown one another while competing.
41. wonkers2 - Feb. 2, 1999 - 11:42 AM PT
And they should be required to swim in the nude. Think what that would do for TV revenues. In fact the Olympics should return to its roots and hold all competitions in the nude.
42. vegemite - Feb. 5, 1999 - 7:10 AM PT
If you have synchronized swimming being considered a sport, how about midget tossing/bowling also being considered a sport. You have all the ingredients of a truly great activity, you have to take care of the body, refine the mental skills, accuracy, teamwork, etc. I mean, the way the Olympics have developed in the past 2 decades anything goes. It's becoming like American Gladiators. Anyway, back in the beginning didn't the Greeks run in the nude? That I'd like to see. Oh I was jesting/being facetious about the midgets, no offense intended.
43. IrvingSnodgrass - Feb. 5, 1999 - 7:16 AM PT
vegemite:
Considering each country is allowed to add a sport or two of its own when it hosts the Olympics, and that Dwarf Tossing is a popular sport in Oz, will we see it contested next year? (I assume from your handle than you are from Australia).
44. vegemite - Feb. 5, 1999 - 7:32 AM PT
Irvingsnodgrass, yes I'm an aussie. We used to do really well in the Olympics, that was before all the high tech stuff started appearing, you know, steroids etc. I'm not proud of the dwarf tossing but I used to be very, very proud of our athletes, they used to be purists who just happened to be the best at their particular sport without any drugs. I hope the aussie sensibility will keep steroids etc. out of the picture, though with one guy already admitting he had given a bribe for the Sydney games, I doubt it. What ever happened to just plain love of the sport, brains, and training? I think what we have done to these young people is criminal. Oh, I was once asked to train for selection in the Olympics in swimming, many, many moons and cigarettes ago.
45. Jonesatlaw - Feb. 5, 1999 - 7:40 AM PT
I heard on NPR that the IOC is balking at reform at its latest meeting. With heads planted firmly in the sand, the IOC goes forth. If they don't satisfy the international business community that association with the Olympics will be positive, the money will dry up, and the party will be over.
46. IrvingSnodgrass - Feb. 5, 1999 - 7:42 AM PT
Vegemite:
Welcome to the Fray... I hope you stick around. We've had a few Aussies participating here from time to time, but no regulars (though we do have two regular Kiwis). Where are you in Oz? Unless you're in WA, it must be pretty late at night for you. It's almost midnight for me here in Bali.
47. DaveCook - Feb. 5, 1999 - 7:51 AM PT
cllrdr - No, simply having Men's Synchronized Swimming would be absurd enough.
vegemite - your really onto something. I would shell out Pay-Per-View type dollars to see an all midget/dwarf Olympics. (Down South they sometimes have a game where they grease a Watermelon and throw it into a swimming pool full of crackers to see who can pull the melon out first. Its a lot of fun, but throw a greased dwarf into a pool of white trash, and its fun x 10, for sure).
48. vegemite - Feb. 5, 1999 - 9:09 AM PT
irvingsnodgrass, I'm actually in New York, have lived here for the past 16 years and love it. I was in Bali for New Years Eve 1970, what a piece of heaven it was then. One big hotel, the Bali Beach Hotel but even then the hordes of ugly aussie and american tourists had started. I don't think I will ever live in Oz again even though Sydney is my home town and its a beautiful city. Here I get to travel cheaply which you can't do from there. Sydney is pulling out all stops for the Olympics, apparently it will be spectacular. What's the bet there are a few defections. I wish the old fart running the IOC would just go away and let someone run it who cares about sports and bring the wonderful tradition of the Olympics back.
49. marjoribanks - Feb. 5, 1999 - 9:14 AM PT
Vegemite,
And what about the cricket bribery scandal in Oz? Have you kept up on it?
50. vegemite - Feb. 5, 1999 - 9:46 AM PT
marjoriebanks No, do tell. Unfortunately great sports like cricket just don't fly here in the u.s. What happened? I really should read the sydney morning herald on the net more often. thanks
51. marjoribanks - Feb. 5, 1999 - 9:51 AM PT
Simply put, some Aussie mainstays like Shane Warne created a stir last year by claiming they had been offered bribes by Pakistani players including the captain Salim Malik. The latters career is in shreds now, he's off the squad.
Lo and behold, this year, the two best young Aussie players (Warne and Steve Waugh) admitted under severe pressure that they'd taken money from subcontinental bookies, ostensibly for reports on pitch conditions and weather. Nobody believes them, but they're the very best that Oz has to offer and they'll probably be playing again at the World Cup this year.