102. marshame - Nov. 16, 1998 - 2:27 PM PT
Christi
Thanks! And I'm very glad you persisted until you got a doctor who took the time to dx you correctly. What a needless tragedy it might have been if you had given in to your pain and ended it all! For your sake and your daughter's I hope they find a pain-relieving treatment for you soon! (and stay away from Chiropractors.)
103. verdeazul - Nov. 16, 1998 - 2:27 PM PT
thoughtful, re. "The 'Look' "
My polio happened so long ago
I remember the experience in visual
fragments. As you may have surmised,
I was part of a large family. We took what
we could get by way of medical care.
I remember sitting on a long, wooden
bench, my head in my mother's lap for
hours and hours at the L.A. Children's
Hospital. The hallway was crawling with
other kids and a parent or two for each
because it was a county-subsidized
hospital.
They finally did a Spinal Tap
late in the afternoon. Another vivid memory
is the look of great urgency and fear on
a doctor's face as he raced towards my
mother and I, waving the Lab Report and
shouting at the nurses, "Get that boy out
of here (the corridor still crawling with
other children), he has Polio!"
viralverde~
104. verdeazul - Nov. 16, 1998 - 2:42 PM PT
Calling All Grads of Michigan
Universities:
I do believe the word is
spelt: valiant, not valient unless,
of course, Michigan has a dialect
(they have ice fishing, afterall,
and that is peculiar unless you
are really, really hungry, broke
and too nervous to steal).
wolververde~
105. msgreer - Nov. 16, 1998 - 2:56 PM PT
Rickc2000...What type of nursing are you in?
106. ChristiPeters - Nov. 16, 1998 - 3:02 PM PT
OK, my spell checker says "valiant".
But I knew that!
It's just because I was singing..
No, really, it's because I can spell, but I can't type..
'Sides I'm an engineer, and everyone knows engineers can't write..
And...
and...
(sputter, sputter)
107. rickc2000 - Nov. 16, 1998 - 3:04 PM PT
I am not in nursing, my partner is (PhD, PNP, C). But tell me did you know Maureen Frey at uM?
108. ChristiPeters - Nov. 16, 1998 - 3:28 PM PT
(@
v O
(|
ARRRrrrrrggggghhhhhh!
I've got something in my EYE!
Somebody call a doctor, quick!
Oh, never mind, false alarm. I was just halucinatin'
(@
v )
(@
109. verdeazul - Nov. 16, 1998 - 3:47 PM PT
CristiPeters:
I only brought the spelling up
because rickc2000 used the same
spelling and apparently took some
courses at a Michigan university, too.
It is too easy to stumble on the path of
correct english spelling when the Fray's
chorus of crackling intellect is gibbering
in the background like the faint cosmic
echo of the Big Bang...(or, mebbe a large
fruit tree full of skanky gibbons -)
zulishpleasure~
110. rickc2000 - Nov. 16, 1998 - 3:52 PM PT
verdeazul; I was simply quoting a prior statement and I didn't feel it was appropriate to correst the spelling (g)
111. msgreer - Nov. 16, 1998 - 4:01 PM PT
No. I did not know Maureen Frey while I was attending UM.
Do you live in Northern or Southern CA?
112. msgreer - Nov. 16, 1998 - 4:39 PM PT
I'm curious, 2000, what do you and your partner do? My turn to ask the questions.
As for the question about how does a woman know what type of mammogram is the best, let me get to you tomorrow. Their are several new types of equipment being used now, I want to check where I go and get on the Internet for an answer.
For starters, I have been going to the same clinic for 17 years. I know the technicians and most of the ones that were there 17 years ago, still are. I think it is important to find a place and stick with it, you get the same radiologists reading your mammograms each year and it makes it easier for them to compare prior mammograms. I ask my clinic each year who will be reading it just to make sure they haven't made any changes I don't know about.
It doesn't hurt to go and meet some of the radiologists in the team and find one who will get your mammogram out, put it up, read it with you and explain it. You don't have to become an expert, but I find it makes me feel better and now I know quite afew radiologists in town should one of my clients need a second, third or fourth opinion...
113. rickc2000 - Nov. 17, 1998 - 12:54 PM PT
msgreer; I am in San Francisco. I was asking about Dr Frey because she is a friend of the family and I was curious to learn if you knew her at UM (she was on faculty).
114. msgreer - Nov. 17, 1998 - 1:20 PM PT
rickc2000: What years was she there?
MAMMOGRAM ANSWER: Now adays the Low Rad 1V (four) is the equipment of choice. The Digital machine is not available now and is experimental only. It has been on TV so many woman are asking about it.
My source said if you find a radiologist you like, you can request her/him to read your mammogram each time. It could take afew days longer, but it's your choice.
ricki2000: You didn't answer me, what do you do with your partner? I lived outside of San Francisco in the early 70's.
115. msgreer - Nov. 17, 1998 - 1:32 PM PT
Mammogram Info... I would certainly ask the technician giving you this procedure what her credentials are, how long has she been doing this and how many hours does she have on the equipment being used.
116. AzureNW - Nov. 17, 1998 - 1:36 PM PT
The next time I catch a virus from one of my co-workers nasty enough to stay home from work for a week with full pay, I'm planning to stuff my jammies, my nyquil, my laptop, some books and some kleenexes into a suitcase and drive over to the airport. Then I'll catch a commuter plane to Tofino on Vancouver Island. When I get there, I'll check into a room in the Wickaninnish Inn that has a fireplace, excellent room service food, and an ocean-view bathtub. At the sagging Canadian exchange rate of the day. I can't wait to get sick.
117. thoughtful - Nov. 17, 1998 - 1:56 PM PT
AzureNW, ocean-view bath tub? Sounds like enough to cure anyone of anything!
Of course, the only problem with that plan is, when I'm sick, the last thing I want to do is travel -- in fact, depending on the illness I can't even travel 5' from the bathroom!
118. AzureNW - Nov. 17, 1998 - 2:30 PM PT
thoughtful -
This particular trip will take less than an hour, so as soon as I notice a sore throat comming on after everyone at work near me has been home sick, I'm outa here with full pay, dammit. I'll call it a benefit.
119. AzureNW - Nov. 17, 1998 - 2:34 PM PT
cold remedy
120. marshame - Nov. 17, 1998 - 2:36 PM PT
Azure
How did you catch the virus if the nasty co-worker stayed home?
121. AzureNW - Nov. 17, 1998 - 2:44 PM PT
marshame -
A lot of people have to use their sick leave time to stay home with their sick kids. Then they have to drag their sneezing bodies in to work when they get sick themselves. I sympathize, sort of, but not enough to stay home feeling their pain when I catch a cold from them.
122. ChristiPeters - Nov. 17, 1998 - 3:05 PM PT
marshame -
It happens the way Azure said here where I work, too. In fact, a couple years ago, my company simply did away with sick leave altogether. Now, instead of sick leave, vacation time, and bereavement/family emergency leave we have a "time bank". The official spin is that it is entirely up to the employee how they "choose to use their time".
The longer you are with the company, the more time you accrue in your bank each month. You can carry forward one year's worth of time into the next year, anything over that is use or lose.
Actually, if you follow the *assumed* conventional path of college right after high school then to a job here right out of college, it's an ok system. You are most likely to be young, childless, and healthy in the beginning when you don't accrue much time. By the time you have kids with health problems or health problems yourself or start losing parents, etc, you should be accruing enough time to cover it - theoretically.
In reality, not too many people go to work for a company right out of college and work for that same company for 20-30 years anymore. You're lucky to stay with one company for 7-10 years now. Personally, I'm on my third career. That means that you are perpetually a "beginner" in terms of benefits in a system set up to reward long term employment in the same company.
I took a week and a half last year to see my father when he was diagnosed with terminal cancer. This year, I've been in the hospital 3 times and am scheduled for a 4th. Even tho' each time has been a one day outpatient treatment, when you add pre-checks and post-checks, it accumulates. My "time bank" still hasn't recovered and my boss gripes that I have an "attendance problem".
*sigh*
123. AzureNW - Nov. 17, 1998 - 3:05 PM PT
also, I meant to convey that the virus was nasty, not the sick co-worker, although some of them are kind of nasty too.
124. rickc2000 - Nov. 17, 1998 - 3:07 PM PT
msgreer; I am not sure when she started but she was there in 1980 (I suspect she was there for awhile before that) until a couple of years ago. I prefer not to answer your other question in this forum for privacy reasons. Sorry
125. msgreer - Nov. 17, 1998 - 4:16 PM PT
Rickc2000: I was there abit earlier than the 80's. Was she in the Nursing Program? What did she teach?
I can understand why you might not want to discuss your work..I was just curious.
MAMMOGRAM INFO: If you're out there, let me know and I'll tell you what I found out about the best equipment to use.
126. rickc2000 - Nov. 17, 1998 - 4:47 PM PT
She was in the Nursing Program, I forget what part (and if I could only remember her research focus I could probably remember what she taught at UM).
127. ChristiPeters - Nov. 18, 1998 - 8:04 AM PT
msgeer -
Could you please tell me how one goes about finding someone to do for them what you do? I have a friend in Michigan who is in real need of an advocate that understands the ins and outs of the system.
If you don't want to answer me here, can you email me at christipeters@hotmail.com ?
Thanks in advance.
128. msgreer - Nov. 18, 1998 - 8:44 AM PT
Christipeters-Let me try to answer your question here and if it doesn't work, I will email you.
I have a license for the State of Michigan also. I have to be able to practice in several states because I travel with clients as requested.
I would start by calling the head of the UM Nursing School. I would tell her/him exactly what the problem is and what I wanted, don't be talked into something you don't want.
I know of a wonderful lady in Ann Arbor who might be able to help.
If your friend is not in Ann Arbor, this lady may know who to contact.
Where is Michigan is your friend located? This could help me locate someone to help.
It is not easy to find an advocate, but they are out there.
If this doesn't help, let me know and I will email and we can discuss it personally.
129. ChristiPeters - Nov. 18, 1998 - 9:23 AM PT
Thanks, msgeer.
I will tell you more via email as soon as I can.
130. ChristiPeters - Nov. 18, 1998 - 9:38 AM PT
msgeer -
email coming atcha
131. ChristiPeters - Nov. 18, 1998 - 3:06 PM PT
Ssssssshhhhhhhh....
Christi whispers: everybody is home resting to heal their aches and pains.
Christi tip toes quietly out of the thread...
132. thoughtful - Nov. 19, 1998 - 6:22 AM PT
From Harry Nilson (and from my memory so I apologize in advance for errors):
Sit beside the breakfast table,
Think about your troubles.
Pour yourself a cup of tea and
Think about the bubbles.
You can take a tear drop,
Drop it in a teacup,
Take it down to the riverside,
And throw it over the side;
To be swept up by a current and
Taken to the ocean
To be eaten by some fishes
Who were eaten by some fishes,
And swallowed by a whale who grew so old,
He decomposed.
He died and left his body
To the bottom of the ocean.
Now everybody knows that when a body decomposes,
The basic elements are given back to the ocean,
And the sea does what it ought to,
And soon there's salty water.
(Not too good for drinking)
'Cause it tastes just like a teardrop,
So we run it through a filter,
And it comes out from the faucet
And falls into a teapot,
Which is just about to bubble.
Now, think about your troubles.
133. marshame - Nov. 19, 1998 - 7:06 AM PT
For a recent birthday (we won't say which one, but let's just say that some people are getting a little nervous about whether they dare keep making "over the hill" type jokes...)
Anyway, I got this little book about things I never have to do again, now that I have reached "a certain age." One little vignette was about a group of women who had been friends for years. Every year they get together for a weekend reunion. One of their rituals is that Friday night, each woman gets to tell the group all her aches and pains, starting with the thinning and/or graying hair right down to her corns and callouses on her feet. She must tell every symptom, every trip to the doctor, every reaction to medication, etc. etc. But the cardinal rule is, after the Friday night physical inventory, no one is allowed to mention any body part again! Sounds like a great idea to me! Why is it that when we get older, we get increasing fascinated with all our bodily functions, and we think everyone else is, too??
134. ChristiPeters - Nov. 19, 1998 - 8:17 AM PT
Dunno, maybe our neurons are dying out and we forget the other subjects we could discuss.
135. msgreer - Nov. 19, 1998 - 8:22 AM PT
I know folks who begin reading the obits... do they think their name will be there? Or is it a check on their own mortality...
136. ChristiPeters - Nov. 19, 1998 - 8:36 AM PT
Well, msgreer, my Mom does it to check on friends, acquaintances, and church members.
137. marshame - Nov. 19, 1998 - 11:22 AM PT
MsGreer
I have been an avid obit reader since the age of 12. To me, the world is divided into two categories, those who read the obits, and those who don't. First, I always study the obit of the ones who are close to me in age. Our paper doesn't routinely give cause of death, so I have to look for clues, i.e. where they ask for memorials to be sent. I have learned, after helping a friend word his wife's obituary, that "died suddenly at home" is code for suicide.
On a more philosophical level, I think I read the obits to remind myself that life is fragile, that we are not guaranteed more than today, that death strikes people of all ages, all races, all socio-ecomomic backgrounds, and to appreciate each day (cause it may be my last!)
If it is my last, rest assured that I will be sure and include all the important stuff in my obituary, such as how old I am/was, cause of death, and when the reading of the will will be!
138. Jenerator - Nov. 19, 1998 - 11:33 AM PT
Marshame,
Be honest, you don't read the obits for philosophical reasons!:)
139. msgreer - Nov. 19, 1998 - 11:35 AM PT
marshame: I agree with you. My obit will be written, to some extent, by me.
What I can't do myself, I have told my sisters what to say.
I don't want it to be a mystery. I guess I believe every person's life is important and there is a story to be told.
There are code words in all obits, I agree with that.
140. msgreer - Nov. 19, 1998 - 11:43 AM PT
I have done one other thing in regards to my death.
I have a mentally challenged daughter. We have a fantastic relationship and how lucky for us both.
I have made a video, and I do update it, especially for her. I explain how it might be hard for her to undrstand why mom is with the Lord, yet on the video too. And I explain it to her.
I go over our time together, our wonderful time. And I go into alot of things I know are important to her.
I also tell her she can look at this now or she doesn't have to. This is for you and you can keep it.
It was not a sad thing to do.. There are so many memories we have and so much we have done together..
And perhaps what she likes the best is her baby clothes I have saved.
She likes hearing the same stories over and over about her first shoes,etc.
And I tell her I am now her guardian angel..
Has anyone else done this for their children or other loved ones?
141. rickc2000 - Nov. 19, 1998 - 2:30 PM PT
"I know folks who begin reading the obits."
I read the obits quite regularly for a time but I did it for "professional" reasons. When I was an undergrad, I had a variety of summer jobs. They were usually in factories (great pay!!) but one summer I worked for the City Parks Dept. as a grounds keeper in the city's cemetery. Most of the time I pushed a mower, trimming around trees, urns and headstones (a crew of permanent city employees rode the big gang mowers in the more open areas. But when there was a funeral everyone stopped mowing and waiting until it was over to resume. Another seasonal worker and I were given the job of filling the graves. This was an older cemetery and, while a backhoe was used to dig the graves (by DPW workers) we had to fill them in by hand (well with shovels)
Now filling graves may sound like creepy work (it is not really (unless you knew the person)) but it sure beats pushing a very heavy, industrial strength lawn mower all day. So I got into the habit of reading the obits each day so I could see what my work week would be like. I always paid particular attention to the time and place of the internment. Cemetery workers sure look forward to funerals.
142. rickc2000 - Nov. 19, 1998 - 2:38 PM PT
msgreer; Great idea, particularly for your daughter. I have a developmentally disabled brother and he had a difficult time understanding when our mother died a few years ago, even though she had been sick for several years and her death was expected.
I have thought of doing something like that for my child. After my child was born I wrote the story of the kid's birth, all that happened with the parents and the process, how happy we were to see our baby and how much we loved our child. We shared it a couple of years ago but the kid was still a little young. We are saving copies to give when our child is older.
But I like your idea of leaving something behind to help the transition if something were to happen to me or my partner while our child is still young (6 yrs old). Thanks!
143. PamIAm - Nov. 20, 1998 - 10:28 AM PT
Aches? Yes.
Pains? Yes.
Medical issues? Yes!
Now, back to the bedrest.
Moan, groan, gripe, complain...
144. PsychProf - Nov. 20, 1998 - 10:58 AM PT
Speaking of obits...two years ago my oldest son(22 then) wrote and delievered eulogies for his mom and dad...it was done during Thanksgiving. I still have copies of what he said, and it will warm me in the late night of my life.
145. ChristiPeters - Nov. 20, 1998 - 11:25 AM PT
When my father died last year, we didn't have a funeral. He had expressed his wish to be cremated and to have his ashes scattered. He also set everything up so as to spare the family as much fuss and expense as possible.
What we decided to do instead was to have a memorial service for him at our church. All my Dad's friends and family were there. We sang his favorite hymns. His friends and family got up one at a time and reminisced about my Dad - what he was like, what he meant to us, favorite memories, and such. After the service, we went to the church hall for snacks, more chatting and shoulder crying and to see the display my Mom had set up with pictures and stories of my Dad from childhood on.
The following week, my Mom and my Dad's best friend went to all my Dad's favorite hunting and fishing spots, scattering some of his ashes in each spot.
I think I would like to plan something similar for myself when the time comes.
146. thoughtful - Nov. 20, 1998 - 12:08 PM PT
From aches & pains to death? I'm sure I'm not ready for this.
Went to hear a rheumatologist talk at lunch. I asked him to speak about fibromyalgia and he replied that it's a wastebasket disease -- something they say you have when you don't know what you have. A lot of people with it also have mental problems so its probably really just a bunch small complaints rolled up into one and given a label.
In other words, since we don't know what it is and can't test for it, it must be in your head. Stop whining and get back to work!
Thank you very much.
147. msgreer - Nov. 20, 1998 - 12:27 PM PT
A sad night at the hospital for me.. and the new mother.
I was with my client during her labor and delivery. She asked me to be there for I had followed her through a pregnancy filled with multiple medical problems.
Her husband was there also.
After a very long labor,she delivered a healthy baby girl. She was delighted.
I stayed with her in the recovery area.. her husband came in screaming "how could you do this to me, how could you have a girl, I didn't want a girl"> He was escorted out immediately.
My client told me in her husband's "culture", men have sons, not daughters. It was a horrible scene.
This is a healthy baby and I have been pondering since this happen only afew evenings ago, what is the fate of this lovely newborn??
I thought the first question is is it a boy or girl and then is the baby okay.
148. msgreer - Nov. 20, 1998 - 1:13 PM PT
PP Check out 140 on this thread. Interested in your thoughts. I got some nice feedback which made me feel good. I am wondering what your ideas are... how nice for you and your wife to have a son with so much sensitivity he wanted to make sure you both knew how he felt.
What a treasure.
It is such a blessed thing, I hope he doesn't mind if I borrow the idea.
149. ChristiPeters - Nov. 20, 1998 - 1:44 PM PT
msgreer -
Oh, so sad. Every child should be treasured for each child is surely a great gift to all.
My (now ex-) husband had a name picked out for his first-born son before he met me. So i was a little worried about how he would react to a daughter - especially since it had taken us 8 years to have her. Luckily it was a case of love at first sight.
My heart goes out to that mother. I hope the father comes around. If he doesn't I hope the mother is strong enough to give her little girl the strength to bloom in spite of her father.
God Bless and Good luck.
150. rickc2000 - Nov. 20, 1998 - 3:42 PM PT
What a sad story. I hope things turn out well for this girl. The love and approval of a father is so important to the developing self image and confidence of girls and it doesn't sound like this father is "man" enough for the job. Sad for him because of all he will miss. Sad for the child for all she may be forced to endure.
Someone sholud tell this bozo that the stuff that made a kid a boy instead of a girl comes from the father so he has only his own "inadequacy" to blame for his failure to produce a son. (If only Henry VII knew this (g))
151. lemwalker - Nov. 20, 1998 - 4:00 PM PT
I am also a faithful reader of obits. I do it to honor those who have died. They will be forgotten soon enough.
Have two daughters, wouldn't trade em for anything. The boy was more worrisome, risk taker. The girls a nuisance in helping me decide when I needed a haircut or a shave, and what shirt I was wearing to go out.
aches and pains. At one time I had a brace or support for every part of the anatomy that could use one. Got to where I didn't need to go to doctor cause I knew what he would say, except for stitches of course. If ignored most pains will go away.
152. AzureNW - Nov. 20, 1998 - 4:22 PM PT
thoughtful -
My sister believes she has fibromyalgia, which she says causes her fatigue and a lot of pain at times. In discussing the disease with her, I noticed that it affects mainly women beginning about age 35. It occurred to me that some common lifestyle changes that happen to women during the decade prior to the onset of the disease might be a factor.
For instance, since I sit in front of a computer all the time now, my diet has had to change drastically in the last decade to maintain my weight. I've had to eat less and less every year until I'm down to one full meal per day, if that. I don't count calories, but I'm sure I eat less than a third of what I did ten or twelve years ago. It took me a little while to realize I was also getting less than a third of the nutrients I used to as well, even if I don't feel the damage now. So I've started paying a lot more attention to vitamins and protien quality.
Another thing I noticed is how much sleep habits change when you live with someone. Sleeping a little less well than you used to night after night for years is a subtle drain on your health that adds up.
153. verdeazul - Nov. 21, 1998 - 2:46 AM PT
FibroWhat? Whatever happened
to the gnarly and mysterious
"Hypoglycemia?" (Mysterious because
doctors could explain, at length, what it
was...just not 'why' it seemed so random.
Medical Labs made a ton of money
blood testing for this one.
And just when did "appendicitis"
and its emergency excision, 'Give Up
The Ghost'? It seems not THAT long ago
that every third young adult had under-
gone, "Trial By Scalpel" to have that little
"worm" removed. (One suspects that a good
many young surgeons "cut their teeth" - and
paid their bills- by performing a number of
these relatively "safe" operations on live
patients (vs. cadavers).And once that
abdominal cavity was opened up only to
reveal a pink and healthy appendix
glistening there, why, remove it anyway
- preventive medicine of the best kind)!
Tonsils (tonsils?) are no longer routinely
excised from the majority of 7-10 year old
children.either. Thank God for that tonsil
vaccine!
verdeusus~
154. msgreer - Nov. 21, 1998 - 3:15 AM PT
PP..I don't know if you got my message.. Just wanted to say what a lovely thing your son did for you and your wife..
Those are such special moments.
I hope he won't mind if I do the same thing to my mother this Thanksgiving.
155. verdeazul - Nov. 21, 1998 - 3:34 AM PT
Lem Walker:
A fellow named Greg Brown
used to perform on, "A Prarie Home
Companion", Garrison Keillor's
very popular PBS radio show. (Not
available in Forks or even Port
Angeles. You had to drive to, at
least, Port Townsend to hear the
show on your car radio on a Sunday
afternoon. Friends in Northern
California would sent me home-
taped cassettes...).
Anyway, Brown wrote and
performed original songs backed
by his acoustic guitar. All dealt with
various aspects of rural, small town
life and its simple pleasures. One
song declared, "I'm a man who's
rich in daughters...and if I can see
a way to make another two "thou" a
year, or even one "thou" a year, I'm
going to look into having some more
daughters..." A very tender, true and
true-felt song.
My only child is my daughter.
I was an Old Man of 34 when she was
born and have grown younger, wiser and
more humble with each year of her life.
I very much wanted a daughter. And she
came to me - 22 years ago.
If I were a younger man, now, I'd
be looking into having some more
daughters.
v~
156. msgreer - Nov. 21, 1998 - 7:21 AM PT
I have daughter also.. just one child.. and if it were poosible, I too, would have lots more..
Ever thought of adoption? Started *the process* a year ago and I can finally say, I see a light at the end of *the government's red tape*.
And yes, it is a girl. A mentally challenged young girl. My daughter, who is also mentally challenged is living in Boston with other young challenged folks.. living a happy life.
157. msgreer - Nov. 22, 1998 - 1:45 PM PT
I have a client who, basically, can not get health insurance. The client comes with a "pre-existing" condition.
Oh, all the insurance companies say sure, we'll be happy to take your client, but these will be his rates and for (some extended period of time) that "pre-existing" condition won't be covered and then we'll only pay X amount a year.
As if that wasn't insult enough, the insurance company quotes how much this insurance will cost a year.
$4500 up to $6500.
No one can afford that. So that's one way they advertise "we're here for you" and then say, sorry..
What happen to the Senate bill (Kennedy) that said you can not be turned down for "pre existing conditions". I've just said why.. They price you out of affording health insurance. The other part of the bill says you can take your current insurance with you if you change jobs. I don't have alot of experience on that one. Any comments?
158. thoughtful - Nov. 23, 1998 - 9:53 AM PT
msgreer, re the father & daughter, I've always wondered where in those cultures they expect sons to come from if there aren't any daughters to bear them? While admittedly I have limited experience, most of the fathers I know have a very special bond with their daughters -- one they wouldn't trade for anything.
AzureNW, I know it isn't fun having aches and pains especially when there seems to be so little they can do about it. Be sure that your sister has had her hormone levels checked. After much ado with my doc, I had mine checked and sure enough, they're low. This may be the source of my problem after all.
Also, if your sister is having sleeping problems, (often associated with fibromyalgia) have her take a calcium pill w/Vitamin D at night before going to bed. Since I've started doing that, my sleep has improved dramatically. The calcium can't hurt and it's important to help prevent osteoporosis anyway.
159. thoughtful - Nov. 23, 1998 - 10:01 AM PT
verdeazul, yes diseases and treatments do have a cycle. Some of it is, it just isn't news any more. People still get it but you don't hear about it. I know of a few women at work who have hypoglycemia and I've seen what happens to them when they don't eat as they should. Not pleasant.
Some of it is changes in philosophy over time. I can remember when, if you told a Dr. you were taking a vitamin and felt better, he'd laugh. Back then vitamins were only to treat the severe diseases that deficiencies led to like beriberi or scurvy. Now Drs. regularly ask if you take calcium or Vit. E, etc. It's taken them awhile, but they do seem to finally recognize that what you do/don't do to your body on a daily basis is an essential ingredient of health.
Me, I was in the tonsil-removing era. Good thing too. I had them out at 2 1/2 as I was suffering chronic infections with very high fevers. Once gone, the fevers went with it and the rest of my childhood was reasonably healthy.
160. thoughtful - Nov. 23, 1998 - 10:06 AM PT
AzureNW, re eating less and less, yes that happens as we age, but you can counteract that with exercise. I've added a lot of aerobic exercise to my daily routine to help control my weight and it's made me a lot stronger and better able to handle stress. Now I'm getting back into weight lifting too. Seems to help my aches and pains, gives me a mental lift as well as a physical one, and it's important for gaining muscle strength, good for the heart, and limiting osteoporosis.
161. msgreer - Nov. 23, 1998 - 11:36 AM PT
I don't remember stating anything about the father/daughter relationship on this thread..but I do believe in the importance of a father in a child's life.
I've seen what the lack of my daughter's father involvement with her has done to her.
She's angry and doesn't understand it. She has written him telling him, "I know you h ave a new family, but if you got to know me, you would love me"> He doesn't answer.
I don't believe the fact she is mentally challenged makes it any easier for her to handle it than a child that is "normal".
There are so many studies about the importance of a father in a child's life and from what I have read, they all say it makes a big difference.
Not all relationships are going to be the "traditional" type, but any type of relationship, especially one the child can count on, is so important.
162. thoughtful - Nov. 25, 1998 - 10:09 AM PT
msgreer. Sorry if I was unclear. I was responding to your story about the new father screaming at the new mother for having a daughter. I guess I was unclear. I was only suggesting that it was sad for the father as well as the daughter as he risks missing out on a very special relationship.
163. wonkers2 - Nov. 25, 1998 - 10:22 AM PT
The First Lady was recently visiting one of Washington's hospitals and during the tour she passed a room where she observed a male patient masturbating. She kept her cool but inquired of the Doctor about it.
He replied, "This man has a very serious condition where the testicles produce much greater amounts of semen than normal. If he doesn't do that five times a day they will explode and he would die instantly."
"Oh! I'm sorry," said the First Lady.
On down the corridor, when the tour group passed a room where a young nurse was giving oral sex to a patient, the First Lady was visibly nonplussed and inquired of the Doctor, "What's happening in there?"
To which the Doctor replied, "Same problem, better health plan!"
164. msgreer - Nov. 26, 1998 - 10:48 AM PT
thoughtful... i undertand now.. thanks for making that clear to me.
the saga goes on with that *father*.
The mother's family has stepped in. Right now the father is not living at home with the mother and infant. He beat her up the day she and the infant went home and her family took him to court in about 2 econds..
Anyway, the judge, in her wisdom, made an order the father can't go back to the house nor can he be within 500 ft. of her or the newborn.
The mother's family is trying to get their daughter to press charges.. if she won't, the prosecutor won't take it to trial. They need the mother to testify..
So that's where we are now. I have been to see the baby girl and she is adorable.
The mother is devastated and as many have said, what is going to happen to this baby?
I know what I would do, or I would like to think I would at the tender age of 20...all I can do is give her support and love that baby.
165. ScotusAntonovich - Nov. 27, 1998 - 9:34 AM PT
Will there always be a race gap in health?
166. msgreer - Nov. 27, 1998 - 10:57 AM PT
suotus..it's not only a *race* gap when talking of health care.. it is all of us. in today's paper it speaks of the HMO's increasing their rates anywhere from 9%to 20% for all us folks..
it's the whole damn medical system. (luckily, i am not in an HMO)
the HMO's say they are not making profits, especially on prescription meds..so people will have a larger co-pay in that area also.
It is time for people to say no more and go to the single payer system, which has been on the CA. ballot several times and voted down each time. I don't think people truly understand a single payer system and see it as a step toward the Canadian health care system and they are afraid of this.
We have a grass root movement for single payer in Fl. We have along way to go, but I don't see anyother way.
167. verdeazul - Nov. 28, 1998 - 5:12 PM PT
thoughtful:
Having tonsils, and, perhaps adnoids
removed surgically is a necessary and very
effective treatment for some children. I am
sure that you can recall the time when most
kids underwent that ordeal who did not need
the procedure but medical "fads" were/are
very powerful.
andlaypersons, alike, went through a period
of sneering and the "dupes" and "hysterics"
who got well from various diseases by taking
only "placebos"...sugar-coated pills lacking
any active "medicinal" ingredients at all!
Even some who did not become completely
well showed marked improvement! This,
"Placebo Effect" was used to invoke all of the
old cliche's re. psychiatric illness, in particular.
If one could be helped by "sugar pills" the
'illness' was obviously bogus.
Only later did far wiser investigators
postulate the "Placebo Effect" as a mani-
festation of an individual's belief and
confidence in the totality of medical/
psychological/nutritional and spiritual
treatments being received.
Doctors are still "healers" to most
people in the world. Only the, "Advanced"
nations, and, America in particular, suffer
from a positive glut of "specialists." A
Resident planning a career in Family Practice
is thought a fool -or worse- by the majority of
his/her colleagues. Yes, MONEY and lots of it
dances through most med. student's heads,
these days.
The entire corrupt edifice(Modern Medicine)
is driven by enormous sums of money...and Ego.
pustzul~
168. msgreer - Nov. 28, 1998 - 10:24 PM PT
167..where did you go to medical school... or what is your connection to medicine? agree with you on family practice physicians.. but there
are some great ones.
i find some physicians coming around to suggesting vitamins and better nutrition to their patients.. many of these physicians were never taught nutrition at med school (or use of vitamins, alternative medicine) and find it difficult to even talk about it.
about tonsils coming out, i agree there are circumstances when it is the thing to do, but since the tonsils catch bacteria from entering the lungs, etc., don't you feel a second opinion needs to be gotten if a doctor says, out with tonsils..
i believe in second, third, fourth opinions anyway..
169. marshame - Nov. 30, 1998 - 10:39 AM PT
Thoughtful re your Message #146
Must agree with your "disease of the decade" analysis (and I also remember the days when hypglycemia was the underlying cause of everything.) Wasn't it Chronic Fatigue Syndrome in the 80's? And hey, how about one kid in 3 now being dxed with some sort of attention deficit and/or learning disorder so that they can be legally drugged for better class "management"?
Bah humbug, I say!
170. jebxxx - Dec. 1, 1998 - 5:50 AM PT
This is anecdotal, but it does speak to a shameful situation in this country. There's a family living in an economically depressed area of the country; he's disabled and she works at a convenience store for close to minimum wage (with no benefits). They refuse to ask for help from Welfare. He has a child; she's never been able to conceive.
At the first of the month the bills are paid. His health insurance is $450. It would cost another $450 to cover the wife, so she has no coverage. The first cash payment is for the husband's blood pressure medicine. When any unexpected need for cash arises, the first thing to go is the wife's thyroid medicine. (This is exactly what older people do all the time.)
One day the wife's reading the inside of the newspaper and comes across a small article about a certain Congressman who passed a law specifically for his secretary's benefit. The secretary was unable to conceive; the new law gives her coverage for fertility treatments.
171. jebxxx - Dec. 1, 1998 - 6:28 AM PT
re: 170
After months of considering the above situation, my response is not to simply suggest that people get out and vote. A more radical approach is necessary. Nothing is going to be accomplished in today's political environment.
What would it hurt, and how might it benefit us, if all voters immediately switch and become registered independents? Wouldn't that seem to encourage members of Congress to respond to individual issues, as opposed to whatever it is that they're doing right now?
172. lillie - Dec. 1, 1998 - 6:51 AM PT
I'm not a nurse practitioner, I work on another level. Front line in the ER of a busy Catholic Hosp. in suburban Detroit. I've been in the business for 26 years, I've seen the medical field go through evolution after evolution, what 's here today will pass and come back under another name, but this Managed Health care beast has caused my profession great pain and stress! We are unable to give adequate care to those in need because we are so overrun with sicker pts. released to soon, with people using us as primary health care providers, and HMO's dragging thier feet to give us "permission" to admit the sick.
On top of all that we have hospital adminstration cutting "seasoned" nurses (and thier higher saleries)to scale back and become"lean and profiable"..to hell with quality care !
Now push comes to shove and they hire new grads, with little or no experiance to fill in the staff numbers(at much lower saleries) or EMT's whose focus is not the same as Reg. nurses, and the result is chaos and poor care for YOUR loved ones...
If this were on the ballot in any election , I'm certain the health care workers would vote in force!
I have much more to say , but don't want to hog the thread.. you'll hear from me again ..this is my profession, and I still love it, I'm not tanking yet
173. jebxxx - Dec. 1, 1998 - 8:12 AM PT
lillie:
I'm sorry. If exactly what were on the ballot? There was a lot in your message.
174. rickc2000 - Dec. 1, 1998 - 10:31 AM PT
welcome hillie I look forward to your posts.
175. lillie - Dec. 1, 1998 - 10:43 AM PT
I'm sorry, I was unclear. If there were coherent issues regarding health care reform , I think the people who can make a difference would welcome the chance to be heard! No one on the hospital level is listening.
Thanks rick, I know you have an interest in this area too, I appreciate the support.
176. rickc2000 - Dec. 1, 1998 - 11:02 AM PT
One of the ironies of the issues surrounding managed care (IMO) is how much it seemed to promise to nurses in the beginning. Originally the concept seemed to support and encourage expanded roles and practice opportunities for nurses and nurse practicioners. What happened to that early promise?
177. cigarlaw - Dec. 1, 1998 - 10:27 PM PT
re obits: has anyone else noticed, but whereever you go,everyone dies in alphbetical order?
conspiracy or random happenstance?
178. rickc2000 - Dec. 1, 1998 - 11:53 PM PT
All Things Considered on NPR had an excellent peice on nurse practicioners tonight (Dec. 1). It presented the work of NPs in both rural and urban settings. Quite a long piece and very positive. It might be available at the NPR web site.
179. rickc2000 - Dec. 1, 1998 - 11:57 PM PT
NPR's Patricia Neighmond reports on the growing use of advanced practice nurses in primary health care. Nurses have opened their own doctor-less clinic in New York. The Veterans Affairs Administration has recently boosted the role of nurses in its system, giving them more power to prescribe medicines and perform tasks that were once the domain of doctors. And in rural Illinois, a nurse practitioner is the only medical care available for miles around -- and the patients are quite happy. (12:30)
180. msgreer - Dec. 2, 1998 - 12:55 PM PT
lillie, i have great respect for you. i am very aware what is happening in all ED's and hospitals due to greedy HMO's.
I didn't get into the medical field to have to choose who is *more of an emergency*.
I have written so much on this Fray about the HMO's, the disgusting firing of trained nurses only to be replaced by people that have no idea what nursing is, as you pointed out.
I hear your frustration and anger and I have it too.
Are you planning to stick with nursing? What is the atomsphere in your ED when chaos like you explained, breaks out?
I am aware NP are making a big difference in rural areas, ricki. Family practice NP are capable and don't need a physician following them all the time. If there is a question concerning a client's health, you get help from the local doctor..only problem is a **local doctor** can be 200 miles away.
I have heard from one NP that she has formed wonderful relationships with her patients, she works in RURAL Mississippi. She tells me she is contributing and what she wanted from her degree, she is getting. The folks invite her over to their homes.. it is all a community effort. Good for her.
181. lillie - Dec. 3, 1998 - 5:43 AM PT
msgreer
Morale in my ER is loer than low, it has led to pettiness instead of team work, the "I work harder than you" mentality is pervasive. It's pretty bad.. we have a number of EMT's as part of our permanent(sic) staff, and the focus is just not the same.. these guys are great at what they do but holding a sick old ladies hand is not in the curriculum..not that the nurses have the time to do that anymore either.
I am 3rd generation nursing, to me it is a vocation, always ER for my own reasons, and I still love it.. I am however moving on to a slower pace. I plan to move over to the less acute side shortly..I 'll finally have time and ability to offer my teaching skills and hand holding again..
It seems to me to be a crime that in this era when we have so much more to offer a pt.in the way of technical support, that we are forced to remove the human component, at least in critical care areas...that's not to say that there are no critical care nurses giving loving care, there are, I do! but not to the extent we would choose to had we the staff and support from the *Mahogany Corridor*(our pet name for Adm.)..
Ah well.. my colleagues and I have this conversation daily, some have gone in to teaching, some have left the field, and some of us keep on plugging..Thanks for the ear msgreer...
182. msgreer - Dec. 3, 1998 - 6:02 AM PT
lillie.. i could listen and discuss this for hours. you mentioned one ting that is so important to me, i want to comment on it.
HOLDING HANDS.. the part of my work I like the best. i like to be able to listen to a client's problems, medical and otherwise. i make the time to pull up a chair and hold my client's hand, thus my nickname, the *touchy, feely nurse*. if i couldn't do this, i would leave.
when i see what is happening to my friends in the hospital setting, i want to go to the administrators and shake them.
at one hospital here, they are cutting back so much, the president decided to d/c giving turkeys to the employees.. all of a saving of $50,000. He could afford to do it himself and never miss the change.
alot of us got together and hit grocery stores until we got enough *turkey* donations to give all the employees a damn turkey.
this hospital fired the top nurse in neonatal. she had been with this hospital, in this one position, for 22 years. talk about morale.
it was nice to see people in the community wrote in so many letters the paper devoted a page to her and what the hospital did.
and it goes on and on, right, lillie.
we just have to keep fighting. i am curious, are the nurses in your hospital in a union.
if someone would dare say the word union at this hospital, they would be out of there.
183. lillie - Dec. 3, 1998 - 8:01 AM PT
msgreer
again, this* union* thing is cyclical. Things will progress to a boil and someone on staff, we never know who, will whisper *union* and thw Mahog. bunch start to do the Whirling Dirvish dance.. pay raises are found , new programs are promised, etc. and it will retreat to the simmer again..I'm not sure I welcome a union, I'd not cotton to someone telling me not to go to work on a given day, but it sure shakes up the suits..
I find it hard to stomach all the BS in daily hosp. life.. we are scheduled for JACHO this week, honey that ER is shining! No drunks in the halls, no skunge on the cold air returns, no room for charting because all the paper supplies are neatly piled on avalable desk space(God forbid a nurse should have a space to sit for30 secs...now tomorrow it will revert to previous chaos because the housekeeping staff has been cut..Guess who cleaned the ER? .
184. msgreer - Dec. 6, 1998 - 5:30 AM PT
lillie...of course you and the other nurses cleaned up.. In my work, I see people, working people, who have no insurance, can't afford it. *the working poor* For me, I am willing to go on sliding scale when folks don't have insurance.
Half of my day is on the phone with HMO's, not only for my fee, but getting the specialized care my clients need.
I am involved with 2 insurance cases at the moment. Both husband and wife have cancer.. the business she works in has changed providers twice and this has been going on for 3 years.. Thisis impossible to deal with..I do insurance cases, but I don't know if I will take one like this again. Appeals sent one day air, zeroxing again and again, talking to supervisors..I am proud to say I have broken some of their codes and it makes it easier to talk to them.. they don't like when I can quote their policy page by page.
I don't really care, I just keep at them.
Thanks for listening...
185. lillie - Dec. 6, 1998 - 5:57 AM PT
msgreer
Anytime* Sister *, I'm out here observing the posts, and I'll take a stab at joining the threads when I don't feel intimidated by some of the more critical brothers and sisters of the Fray...see ya,lillie
186. thoughtful - Dec. 7, 1998 - 3:09 PM PT
ChristiP, If you're around, weren't you supposed to be going for back surgery? Did you? If so, how'd it turn out?
I'm wondering because a dear friend of mine is suffering with terrible low back pain has been on many pain killers for months though she's had surgery once. They keep telling her there's nothing wrong and nothing they can do. Well now they're thinking about a second surgery, but they don't know if it will ease the pain or if the nerve is too badly damaged.
Any insight would be most appreciated -- annecdotal though it may be.
187. ChristiPeters - Dec. 7, 1998 - 3:34 PM PT
thoughtful -
I am scheduled for Dec 22nd, but it is not surgery. I have been getting injections to ease pain. Here's the long and boring story.
In 1984, I was trampled by a horse, displacing three vertebra, getting kicked in the head, and having my right kidney and liver stomped on. Then in 1990, I was in a car wreck (broadsided at 50 mph) which messed up my left hip, another concussion, and sideways ?whiplash?
I had pain in my back; pain, weakness and restricted motion in my left arm; pain, and weakness in my left leg; and pain in my left hip.
After a lot of doctors, I was put on an antidepressant that is known to have the side effect of reducing "nerve pain". Unfortunately, it also has the side effect of weight gain. In my case the weight gain was significant and seemed to be unaffected by diet and exercise. (At one point I was only eating 950 calories a day, walking two miles a day, and *still* gaining weight!)
My family physician was unable to find a pain medication that worked for me (Percodan is a sugar pill to me and I seem to be unaffected by many sedatives including valium and sodium penathol as well, but that's another story) Anyway, he sent me to a "Pain Specialist."
After X-Rays and an MRI established that I had arthritis and a "protruding disk", I had two procedures on my cervical spine for the left arm problem. The Specialist explained that sometimes after an injury, the nerves are irritated, and the muscles start "guarding" which irritates the nerves which make the muscles guard .... So these injections were to the nerve root ganglia to basically shut the nerves up long enough for the muscles to let go and break the cycle. (50-50 chance of helping) It worked. The pain was reduced by about 70% and the range of motion somewhat improved.
Then I had a injections on the low spine for the artritis which were to the "facets". I confess I don't understand these.
188. ChristiPeters - Dec. 7, 1998 - 3:38 PM PT
However, they reduced the pain in my leg and I haven't needed my cane for months!
Next were steroid epidural injections to the thorascic (sp?) spine to "shrink" the protruding disk. These did not help at all. In fact that pain is worse.
Next are more shots to the thorasic spine.
Boring story, huh.
My suggestion to your friend is keep asking, keep going to more doctors. If a doctor says nothing is wrong, challenge it. "Yo, Doc, you haven't been listening. I hurt! That's something!"
Tell her Good Luck from me!
189. thoughtful - Dec. 8, 1998 - 10:40 AM PT
Thanks, CP and I wish you all the best too. I don't find your story boring at all. Rather it's very interesting. I hadn't heard the term "guarding" but I'm sure my friend is suffering from that as well -- bound to happen when you've been in severe pain for so long.
She had an injection a few days ago and was pain free for the first time in months -- but it only lasted a short while. She's feeling just a tad better, but she's still on all kinds of pain killers and says that a good night's sleep is 2-3 hours at best. Percodans (she's on 2 kinds in addition to a whole schedule of meds) only take the edge off her pain at best. But I'll be sure to let her know that persistence pays off. Thanks.
190. ChristiPeters - Dec. 8, 1998 - 12:18 PM PT
thoughtful -
My pain specialist was very open about the odds of the injections working. He said it works for some people for long term relief, it works for some people for only short term relief, it doesn't work at all for some people, and it even makes the pain worse for a few people.
It took two sets of injections in my cervical spine nerve root ganglia to achieve the relief in my arm. Only one set of shots to the spinal facets in my low spine to help my leg and the epeidural injections made my upper back pain worse. So, it seems to me, that not only are the results different from patient to patient, but also different from one procedure to the next in the same patient.
If the injections help her in the short term, there is a procedure he told me about for that. Basically, they surgically implant a little pump of medication in the area that needs the "injections". It gives automatic, repeat internal injections on a programmed schedule. It's expensive, however you might want to pass this on to your friend.
191. thoughtful - Dec. 8, 1998 - 12:51 PM PT
Thanks, cp. She already mentioned that, but is reluctant to take that step yet.
Seems to me that there's still something wrong that's causing pressure on that nerve, making it scream so loudly. When he tried to inject her, he said it was very tight in there, and perhaps another surgery will alleviate the pressure on the nerve, and hopefully the pain.
192. ChristiPeters - Dec. 8, 1998 - 1:19 PM PT
thoughtful -
If your friend finds an honest doctor, he/she may actually tell your friend what I was told. Medical "science" hasn't really figured out backs yet. There are some people who suffer from back pain and the Drs can find a clear cause and fix same. There are many people who suffer from back pain and the Drs do not have one clue as to why the pain is where it is and why it does or does not respond to treatments which have been found effective for some people in empirical studies.
193. CalGal - Dec. 8, 1998 - 1:32 PM PT
Thoughtful,
Has she tried acupuncture? Particularly for the muscle aggravation around back injuries, it's worth a shot.
Or a prick.
Or a jab.
194. ChristiPeters - Dec. 8, 1998 - 2:20 PM PT
thoughtful -
I also had some relief from chiropractic adjustments and from neuro-muscular massage therapy. There are good practitioners of both and there are quacks out there, too. So tell your friend to check them out before treatment.
My rule of thumb has been 1)ask for and check out references 2)if the chiropractor or massage-therapist starts claiming you'll never need vaccinations again, you'll lose weight if only you ar "adjusted correctly" or they can cure cancer or kidney disease or some such through back adjustments, run, don't walk to the nearest exit. (Yes, I *have* had some actually tell me these things)
If the chiropractor insists on full x-rays and explains that "all I do is put vertebrae back into place. If you don't have that problem, I can't help you." then it's probably ok. Same for massage-therapists and loosening/relaxing muscles.
195. PsychProf - Dec. 9, 1998 - 10:52 AM PT
Parkinson's Primer
196. thoughtful - Dec. 9, 1998 - 2:18 PM PT
cg & cp, thanks for the advice. Having had back surgery, she's reluctant to be "manipulated" which I can understand. Acupuncture and physical therapy have been tried to no avail. Her daughter-in-law is a massage therapist. She said the massage was nice, but did nothing for the pain. I can't help but think that the problem is mechanical -- bone or disk pressing on the nerve -- and once the pressure is relieved, she'll have a chance at recovery.
I've been to chiropractors and have had some wonderful ones and have had some quacks. I've also managed to straighten my back myself. For those bored by medical stories, skip the next paragraph:
My old wonderful chiropractor retired and I was going to his replacement. I had a rib out of place -- I could feel it and it hurt to breathe. Visit after visit and he wasn't helping me at all. So at home I put on my deep relaxation tape -- about 30 min of TM, shut the door and lay still on the bed without interruption. About 25 min into it, deeply relaxed, I felt a sudden sharp pain in my back as the rib slipped back where it belonged. After that, and ever since I've had no pain in that area.
197. cartmhan - Dec. 15, 1998 - 7:56 PM PT
Look at Fraygrants Corner for the news of my dad's condition and my plea to all men to get themselves checked for colon cancer when they are 40.