1502. chloel - Jan. 21, 1999 - 6:15 PM PT
Anyone know how to use a potato bin? I have one about four feet tall, two or three across, that I know I'm supposed to keep adding dirt to as the potatoes get taller. Am I or am I not supposed to plant new seed in the new dirt?
1503. thoughtful - Jan. 22, 1999 - 6:55 AM PT
Potato seeds? Never saw one -- though I know they have eyes! And bugs!
1504. gravel - Jan. 22, 1999 - 8:07 AM PT
chloel:
By "potato bin" you mean a gardening container, right? (That's as opposed to one of those storage containers that were once built into the corners of unheated cellars.) The new dirt is to feed the potatoes and to keep them protected from sunlight as they grow. (In a garden, new layers of soil make the eventual harvesting much easier and also less potentially damaging to the potatoes.) If you plant more seed potatoes in the new soil, and assuming they grow, you'll have to dislodge these to get to the earlier-planted potatoes.
1505. bubbaette - Jan. 22, 1999 - 2:48 PM PT
Hot Dog!
I have crocuses coming up in January. I hope this really is a sign of Spring, and so far my pansies have weathered the winter's ice storms.
I've also found the very beginning of the daffodil bulbs in one of the sunnier places.
What the hell -- even if it's a false sign of spring, it's sure lifted my heart.
1506. MizPhys - Jan. 22, 1999 - 5:25 PM PT
Your pansies are alive?!! Living in upstate NY, I can't imagine such a thing! God I miss Virginia!
1507. RyckNelson - Jan. 23, 1999 - 4:48 AM PT
Cool. I like to shovel the snow down to the grass now and then, just to rememeber it's there. We've had snow almost every day since mid December. It's quite deep now, but not horrible. I was in St.Paul for a Hari Raya dinner last Saturday and the side streets haven't seen a plow in over a week. It had at least six to eight inches in every street. Then they annouce the plows will be out and get off the odd numbered side. If you miss the announcement your fined or towed. What a bunch of crap. Here in the west burbs of Minneapolis, you don't park in the street until they're plowed, period! The plows come the same day after the snow. It works like a charm. We've good streets and very few troubles.
That Norm Coleman who's lost the election to "Jesse" is not taking care of his people in St.Paul. As mayor he's created lot's of debt and now maybe he can't afford to plow. I'm glad he lost.
1508. bubbaette - Jan. 23, 1999 - 5:30 AM PT
Ryck
DHette will be returning to the frozen north early next week. For Christmas and her birthdays, I've been giving her charms for a charm bracelet I gave her for her high school graduation. This year, I got a snowflake charm to commemorate her time in Minnesota. The wacky kid loves cold weather and snow, and feels like she's missing out here in VA. Go figure.
1509. Seguine - Jan. 23, 1999 - 3:09 PM PT
For anyone who likes Indian food, this is quick, easy to make, and mildly spicy:
Coconut Rice
€ 1 1/4 cups basmati rice *[DO NOT purchase basmati rice at a regular supermarket. Go to an Indian grocery and ask for the best quality basmati available--usually costs about $11/ten lbs. Pari brand is excellent.]
€ Approx 1 tablespoon of butter or oil
Rinse the rice in several changes of water, drain, and saute gently in butter or oil for five minutes or so, until rice changes from transcluscent to opaque. Add the following and saute a couple minutes more:
€ 3 or 4 tablespoons of a good madras curry powder or paste; make your own if you can't find a decent one
€ small handful of coarsely chopped cashews, although pecans will do
€ small handful of chopped sultanas
€ 1 teaspoon of salt
€ dash of powdered clove
€ dash of powdered cinnamon
Then add:
€ 2 cups water
€ 3 or 4 tablespoons dessicated coconut
€ handful of frozen peas
Bring to a boil, reduce heat, cover, and cook as you would normally cook rice (about 15 minutes).
Very good served with a coconut milk-based curry (chicken, lamb, or vegetables), or simply with nan and a nice cucumber raita. Also might be OK as a mild complement to a vindaloo.
1510. RyckNelson - Jan. 23, 1999 - 3:27 PM PT
bubbaette,
Good choice for a charm to commerate Minnesota. I hope this semester she's better luck with her car and parking. I'm glad things are going ok. There really is a lot to do here in winter. She must have found some of them.
Seguine,
MMMM.... you're absolutely right basmati is just heavanly. We have it quite a bit with some of my wifes special dishes. Most of them a curry of some kind. She's sooooo gooood at cooking. I'm sorry to say it's gone mostly to my midrif. Maybe this year I can walk it off. I've half tried now for so many years. I just have to commit this time.
I've got to learn to eat smaller portions, that's really it. But, the food is so good. I mean, just reading your recipe is like looking at a plate of my wifes cooking. I'm ready for dinner now and it's only 5:30. CONTROL Nelson, control!
1511. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 23, 1999 - 4:05 PM PT
While I grant that there are many different qualities of basmati rice, I'd wager that in a blind taste test Seguine could not tell the difference between the best bastmati rice available at a "regular supermarket" and the brand she pushes above.
1512. darkviolet - Jan. 23, 1999 - 4:20 PM PT
We're having "Daawat Premium Basmati Rice, product of India, aged one year, stove top method" and local veggies and herbs.
1513. darkviolet - Jan. 23, 1999 - 4:22 PM PT
Dead birds, too.
1514. Seguine - Jan. 23, 1999 - 4:36 PM PT
PE: "I'd wager that in a blind taste test Seguine could not tell the
difference between the best bastmati rice available at a "regular
supermarket""
You'd lose, bucko.
If I could get decent basmati at the supermarket I wouldn't bother to drive twenty minutes to buy big bags of it elsewhere. I have tried basmati from bulk food stores (Fresh Fields/Whole Foods, the Weaver's Way CoOp back in Philly) and in regular supermarkets. It's practically indistinguishable from ordinary long-grain rice. You can't even smell supermarket basmati (or Texamati, or what have you) when you cook it, let alone when it's raw.
There may, of course, be better brands than Pari, but I haven't done much comparison shopping among those available at Indian stores.
1515. RyckNelson - Jan. 23, 1999 - 4:39 PM PT
Your dish sounds heavenly Seguine.
1516. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 23, 1999 - 4:45 PM PT
Well, I've never had "Texmati", so perhaps I should try that first before speaking.
I once watched a self-professed rice connoisseur from Japan embarass himself at a rice fair when he could not tell the difference in a blind taste taste between the sample of medium-grain glutinous rice grown in Hawaii or California and the best sample from Japan. This, despite his rather confident and boastful pronouncement earlier that the home-grown Japanese variety could have no rival.
1517. Seguine - Jan. 23, 1999 - 6:36 PM PT
Texamati is, as you might expect, basmati rice gown in Texas. It's about twice as expensive as anything sold in Indian stores, I've only had it once, and as far as I recall it didn't taste substantially different from regular long grain. As for the other so-called basmati rice sold in supermarkets, I've wondered sometimes whether it's not even really basmati.
Not being a rice connoisseur, I couldn't tell you the difference between most kinds of rice. I can only distinguish long from short, brown from white, sticky from particulate, and basmati from not.
But perhaps you can tell me: what exactly is jasmine rice (species? aged? perfumed?), where is it grown, & why is it so much less available than it used to be (in the '80s)?
1518. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 24, 1999 - 12:19 AM PT
Seguine:
The "regular" grocery stores that I go to (not very frequently, I might add) carry Elephant (?) and Laxmi Basmati rice from India, so I'm not sure I can compare your shopping experience with mine meaningfully. But I will be on the lookout from now on in "regular" supermarkets to see what they carry.
I understand that "Texmati" is not meant to be a substitute for Indian basmati. To boot, I thought it was a hybrid of American long-grain and Indian Basmati.
Jasmine rice is the poor person's basmati, from Thailand.
1519. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 24, 1999 - 12:22 AM PT
Oh, I do believe jasmine like basmati is aged. And both are considered aromatic rice.
1520. Judithathome - Jan. 24, 1999 - 10:14 AM PT
pseudo:
When I lived in Japan, I could certainly tell the difference in Japanese rice and American rice and I think maybe your instance cited above was very unusual. We were at a rice tasting, informal to be sure, but as I understand it, export rice from Japan is very different for what they keep for themselves. The *common* rices in Japan are far superior to American rices...as different as preparing rice and making MinuteRice (an abomination, in my opinion.)
There IS a difference in rices and I buy rice at a Japanese store or from the local Greek grocer who has a variety of rices from different parts of the world. Being picky about rice is, to me, a virtue.
1521. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 24, 1999 - 10:26 AM PT
Judithathome
I was not comparing Japanese glutinous rices with common American rices, let alone anything like MinuteRice. So your Message #1520 appears to be irrelevant.
I was comparing glutinous rices grown in California and Hawaii (Nishiki, Tamaki, etc.) with those not just exported from Japan but actually consumed in the country. There is very little difference.
1522. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 24, 1999 - 10:28 AM PT
Judithathome: Go to any Japanese grocery store in the New York -- New Jersey -- Connecticut orbit. (Note: NOT Chinese or Korean grocery stores. Addresses provided upon request.) Most typically carry five to six brands of bowl rice (as opposed to mochi rice). Usually, all but one is from California or Hawaii.
1523. bubbaette - Jan. 24, 1999 - 10:39 AM PT
My camilias have started to bloom. Glendajean you asked me what colors they are, but I couldn't remember exactly. I have red with white stripes, white with red stripes, red, white, pink and shades inbetween, sometimes several differnt types on what looks to be one bush. As I understand, when the camilia sends off shoots, those "children" are always a different color from the parent plant.
1524. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 24, 1999 - 10:39 AM PT
To be more precise, the two rices compared by the self-proclaimed connoisseur in Message #1516 were both of the breed Japonica (a white short-to-medium-grain glutinous rice originally cultivated only in Japan). Even ordinary Japanese regularly claim that there is something special and distinctive about their rice. This may be true, but in comparisons of the best Japonica breeds from Japan and the best from Hawaii / California, both ordinary people and connoisseurs simply cannot tell the difference.
1525. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 24, 1999 - 10:43 AM PT
Judithathome (Message #1520)
"There IS a difference in rices...Being picky about rice is, to me, a virtue."
Of course there are differences in rice. I never said otherwise. And pickiness is fine, except that some overdo it in order to be pretentious (as with wine and coffee and other foodstuffs).
1526. Seguine - Jan. 24, 1999 - 12:06 PM PT
The following are my preferences in foodstuffs. I consider them to be absolute qualitative truths for which, sadly, no consensus can be achieved.
Beer: India pale ales, Sierra Nevada pale ale, or Anchor Steam. Sometimes an Anchor Christmas ale. Anything strongly hopped. Also, Guinness on tap, not too cold.
Wine: Red; Australian, some Californian, some Portugese; Cabernet, Shiraz, etc. Dry sherry and port. No sparkling wines at all.
Scotch/Whiskey: Single malts, but I'm not that picky.
Rice: In general, basmati for all purposes other than dessert; although I've had terrific short- and medium-grain sticky rice in some Chinese restaurants, I don't know where to purchase it uncooked.
[Pseudoerasmus: addresses of north-central NJ Japanese grocers requested.]
Coffee: the blackest, oiliest roast arabica available. Thus far, the source for this has always and everywhere been Peet's Coffees. They ship mail-orders from California.
Tea: "Typhoo" brand, imported by way of England. (I have an Indian friend who probably would not stoop to drink it, however, as she has all hers sent from back home.)
Chickens: kosher, free range, or locally farmed. Factory farmed chicken is often tasteless or odd-tasting. Not so w/factory-farmed turkeys, however, which taste just fine by me.
Beef: kosher or other local butcher is best, but usually too expensive. I have no use for "all natural" beef, which tends to be more expensive still and not especially tasty.
Fish, vegetables, tofu, eggs...: no particular preferences.
1527. KurtMondaugen - Jan. 24, 1999 - 12:12 PM PT
Seguine:
I agree, beer must be generously hopped (I very much dislike the more malty ambers). But, given that here in Washington we've got several varieties of the most complex hops around, we're kind of spoiled that way. Sierra Nevada, sadly, doesn't cut it. For single malts, try the Lagavulin and you may just start to become 'picky'.
1528. Seguine - Jan. 24, 1999 - 12:23 PM PT
Mondaugen,
Sigh. Seattle. Yes, but I'm in New Jersey. For years, we had to satisfy ourselves with Sierra because that was the only decent west-coast beer we could get in cases in Philly. Buying by the six in Pennsylvania was exorbitant, PA having only state-run liquor stores.
I don't think I've tried Lagavulin, though I've heard of it. I like Laphraoig (sp?). Smoky.
1529. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 24, 1999 - 2:32 PM PT
Seguine: Most Chinese bowl rices are semi-glutinous and medium-grain, whereas Japanese bowl rices glutinous and short- or short-to-medium grain. There is a noticeable difference between the two.
As for beef, you must at least once try Kobe's Matsuzaka beef, which makes Angus taste like tough and rancid rodent flesh. Although I'm not sure it's worth $50 an ounce, the beautifully marbled Matsuzaka is truly excellent and quite different from the run-of-the-mill beef.
1530. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 24, 1999 - 2:33 PM PT
By the way, for rice pudding, the best is basmati rice, runny with rose water and date sugar.
1531. darkviolet - Jan. 24, 1999 - 4:53 PM PT
That sounds wonderful. My mother used to make something we called rice pudding, but it was quite different. It was a baked custard with cinnamon and sweet spices and a lot of raisens, served hot with whipped cream.
1532. darkviolet - Jan. 24, 1999 - 5:03 PM PT
Re: Message #1527
WA wines are getting better all the time, too. Several award winning cabernets and merlots have been produced in the Columbia Valley recently. The latitude in the Columbia Valley wine growing region is the same as in Southern Europe, and even sunnier. There is a freshness and innocence about NW foods that I think comes through in NW wines, a lack of funkiness as well as a lack of pretense.
1533. darkviolet - Jan. 24, 1999 - 5:04 PM PT
cabernet? Is that correct?
1534. Seguine - Jan. 24, 1999 - 5:14 PM PT
Rice pudding seems to be several different dishes that involve rice, milk, cream, eggs or no eggs, sugar, butter, vanilla, cinnamon, mace-- and now, I hear, rosewater, "sweet spices" and whipped cream. It is either baked or cooked on a stove; it starts with cooked or uncooked rice; the rice in all cases serves as a lattice for cholesterol.
I suspect sweet spices must include cloves. I don't think I'd like that. Rosewater I could see, especially w/basmati; might as well add pistachios, maybe made into a paste with sugar and butter and baked on top.
I once had an extremely good bread pudding at the Cresheim Cottage Café in Mt. Airy, Phila. It was fairly traditional, but I think it had sultanas and not the usual dark raisins in it, and--this was just amazing--it was topped with a mixture of whipped cream and Guinness Stout.
1535. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 24, 1999 - 5:16 PM PT
Well, there are hundreds of varieties of rice puddings and conjee-based desserts from Japan to Iran. The near-solid, custardy kind you're talking about in Message #1531 is a variation on Pennsylvania Dutch rice pudding. The fundaments of all rice puddings include, beside rice, some kind of milk, egg yolk, sweetener and vanilla. The standard Indian rice pudding is Kheer, differentiated by basmati rice, coconut milk, raisins and cardamom and/or cinnamon. The one I mentioned in Message #1530 is Persian, for which the distinctive ingredients are Persian basmati rice, goat milk, saffron and/or nutmeg, dates and/or figs, and most importantly, rose water.
1536. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 24, 1999 - 5:17 PM PT
Oh, and pistaccios in the Persian rice pudding.
1537. Seguine - Jan. 24, 1999 - 5:19 PM PT
What is innocent food?
Once, some friends and I got stoned and began pronouncing like connasooers on the stuff we were swilling that evening. I declared it a "jealous wine".
1538. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 24, 1999 - 5:20 PM PT
I once had a rice pudding with lots of chestnut purée poured in, but I don't think that's associated with any national style. I had it at someone's house.
1539. bubbaette - Jan. 24, 1999 - 5:21 PM PT
Rice pudding should have nutmeg.
1540. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 24, 1999 - 5:27 PM PT
why must it?
1541. Seguine - Jan. 24, 1999 - 5:31 PM PT
"The fundaments of all rice puddings include, beside rice, some kind of milk, egg yolk, sweetener and vanilla."
No. I thought so as well, but my mother in law (who is German) makes some sort of rice pudding that contains milk, sugar, and vanilla, but no eggs.
It's possible hers is an English variant.
My mother in law is an accomplished baker. However, we were informed each year, until she went on strike over the issue, that her Christmas pudding was an abomination. Said judgment issued always from my father in law, who is English. I always liked the Christmas pud, probably because it was topped with brandy butter (after being doused with brandy and ignited, of course).
1542. darkviolet - Jan. 24, 1999 - 5:37 PM PT
Re: Message #1537
"What is innocent food?"
I would think 'innocent' food hasn't undergone a lot of modification. It's guileless in a sense, because it's sumptuous without intending to be. The grapes that produce Washington wines are luscious that way, hearty and full of life without being coddled. The wines are rich and fruity.
1543. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 24, 1999 - 5:42 PM PT
Well, I had a really appalling rice pudding at least once a week for six years when I was at school in England. It was referred to as the "evacuation", in reference to a cholera patient's evacuations. I can't say whether it contained egg yolk or not.
1544. Seguine - Jan. 24, 1999 - 5:42 PM PT
"The standard Indian rice pudding is Kheer, differentiated by basmati
rice, coconut milk, raisins and cardamom and/or cinnamon."
I've had Kheer at restaurants and thought it too sweet.
The best rice pudding I've ever had was made by a friend in Philly who combined two recipes, somewhat by accident, and brought the results to a party. If I ever learn just what she did, I'll pass on the instructions.
Addendum to list of preferred foods:
Olive oil: extra virgin, cold pressed, unfiltered (except I use filtered for cooking). Greek and Spanish olive oils tend to be reasonably priced and flavorful, but the best I've had was from two shops in the Italian Market in Philadelphia.
1545. darkviolet - Jan. 24, 1999 - 5:43 PM PT
Rosewater sounds interesting, but somehow soapy. I can't help but associate the scent of roses with perfume, although I've nibbled on rose petals. The golden base of the petal where it attaches to the apple is sweet.
1546. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 24, 1999 - 5:54 PM PT
Message #1545: Then I guess you won't be trying the rosewater & pistaccio ice cream, an Iranian flavour I keep evangelising every chance I get.
1547. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 24, 1999 - 5:56 PM PT
Message #1545: Then I guess you won't be trying the rosewater & pistaccio ice cream, an Iranian flavour I keep evangelising every chance I get.
1548. Seguine - Jan. 24, 1999 - 5:56 PM PT
PE--what ordinary supermarket carries Elephant and Laxmi brands of basmati rice?
Here is a list of supermarkets I can think of offhand: Safeway, A&P, Pathmark, ShopRite, H.E.B., Stop'nShop, Acme, Piggly Wiggly... and then there's the big "natural foods" chain, Whole Foods, aka Fresh Fields, which carries basmati rice in bulk. I've never seen Laxmi or Elephant in any of these places, although I'm sure I've seen Laxmi in Indian stores.
I expect I shall always be deprived of the joy of paying $50 for an ounce of meat.
1549. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 24, 1999 - 6:04 PM PT
Message #1548: Well, it's not any of those -- I've never even heard of them. The grocery stores where I have seen a variety of basmati rices direct from India are probably not chains, but they are not specialty stores, either. One of them is called "Bongiorno", in Stamford, Connecticut, a large, run-down, rather dirty supermarket with a very down-scale clientele, stocked with ethnic foodstuffs from all over the world. Everyone who works there is either Polish, South Asian, or Central American. English is utterly useless, except with some of the Indians.
1550. darkviolet - Jan. 24, 1999 - 6:14 PM PT
Re: Message #1546
Pistacio and rosewater icecream does sound very good and very exotic. I think I would like to try it. It sounds like another Eastern food that has a lot of flavor without a lot of substance. Many of the Middle Eastern and especially Indian foods I've tried have so much flavor I can only eat a few small bites. I can't imagine getting stuffed on Indian food.
1551. Jenerator - Jan. 24, 1999 - 7:40 PM PT
Fresh, ripe mango is always nice.
1552. Seguine - Jan. 24, 1999 - 8:25 PM PT
PE: If you have not heard of any of the supermarkets I mentioned, which are found in the west, south, and northeast, then it's plain you never shop at big, chain supermarkets.
(I forgot Lucky and Jamesway.)
A brief spousal consultation has revealed that the rice pudding sans eggs that I mentioned above is, in fact, German. The rice is cooked in milk instead of water, then cream, vanilla, and sugar are added.
I'm on the verge of concluding that the baked, custard-like version that you claim is Pennsylvania Dutch-derived is, in fact, probably originally British. (That, incidentally, is the kind of rice pudding my mother always made.)
1553. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 24, 1999 - 8:43 PM PT
Seguine: I don't know what's originally British, since rice pudding is plainly Asiatic in origin. But in Britain one finds both the custardy and the creamy kind of rice pudding. For the latter there is an awful commercial brand called Ambrosia for which I have a guilty taste.
1554. Seguine - Jan. 24, 1999 - 8:44 PM PT
Have I metioned that I just recently stumbled onto a Russian grocery in Union, NJ? I went in because there was a sign out front that said "International Foods". The store included a deli, a bakery counter, a video counter (whose clerk, a middle-aged man, spoke no English whatsoever), various packaged and refrigerated goods, and newspaper racks containing five or six different rags, all in Russian. All the signage was in Russian. The customers all spoke Russian.
Since I hadn't run into that many Russians since moving to this area, I was sort of surprised to find this place--but grateful, as the shelves were stocked with some very good bread and lots of bottles of pomegranate juice and sour cherry syrup. I was waiting to pay for my stuff when I noticed one small anomaly that finally turned the key of comprehension for me: a sign about the size of a baseball card taped up on the wall behind the cash register. It bore a picture of Menachem Schneerson, and the words, "WELCOME the MOSHIACH with acts of goodness and kindness."
1555. millhead - Jan. 24, 1999 - 8:56 PM PT
Try a favorite Thai dessert...sweet rice with fresh mango. The rice is sticky and served warm, combined with the cool fresh mango it is a sure treat.
1556. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 24, 1999 - 8:58 PM PT
Come to think of it, I have now a creaving for creamed tapioca and creamed sago from Abrosia as well...they're so bad they're good.
1557. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 24, 1999 - 8:58 PM PT
Ambrosia
1558. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 24, 1999 - 9:03 PM PT
Message #1552: The supermarket I mentioned, and others I could mention, may not be large chains, but they are unmistakeable as anything but supermarkets. Most of them quite prolly too.
1559. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 24, 1999 - 9:10 PM PT
Three uncommon flavours of ice cream which must be tried if possible are:
(1) rosewater-pistaccio (found at Iranian restaurants & grocery stores)
(2) green tea, or matcha (found at Japanese restaurants & grocery stores)
(3) ginger (Japanese and other East Asian grocery stores carry it)
1560. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 24, 1999 - 9:14 PM PT
There is also the Kulfi, the Indian ice cream that is much richer than Western ice cream. It can be flavoured with mango, saffron, cardamom, nutmeg, etc., and almost always mixed with nuts of some sort, like almond or pistaccios. But I'm sure a lot of people have tried the kulfi.
1561. KurtMondaugen - Jan. 24, 1999 - 9:16 PM PT
I've had green tea and ginger (as well as red bean) ice creams, but not the rosewater-pistaschio. I did have a wonderful dessert at a Vancouver Indian restaurant, the name of which I can't remember (both the dessert and the restaurant), which were pistaschio nuts surrounded by milk-dumplings and resting in a small cup of rosewater. If the ice cream is as good as that was, I definitely want to try some.
1562. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 24, 1999 - 9:21 PM PT
Mondaugen:
I think you're talking about the Ras Malai.
As for the red bean ice cream, that's the Azuki ice cream, which I don't care for.
1563. wonkers2 - Jan. 24, 1999 - 10:07 PM PT
pseudoseguine, like water for chocolate.
1564. millhead - Jan. 25, 1999 - 6:32 AM PT
pseudo,
Sorry I missed you last night...I plan to try some of your suggestions soon. I live about 85 miles due west of Chicago in Rockford, IL...we have a small Laotion, Thai and Vietnamese community here and the restaurants and markets are wonderful. 99% of the time my girlfriend and I are the only Caucasians in these places. People around here just don't know what they are missing.
1565. Seguine - Jan. 25, 1999 - 7:01 AM PT
"The supermarket I mentioned, and others I could mention, may not be
large chains, but they are unmistakeable as anything but supermarkets."
So what. My original comment was that one should not seek after good basmati rice in a "regular supermarket".
You are obviously too immersed in variety to have experience with what 99.5% of America understands is a "regular supermarket". You will not be excused for attempting to to pass off your experiences in some obvious HEAVEN of a grocery store as comparable to what the rest of us endure at concerns whose names end in -way.
I will concede this, though: I once went to a Safeway in Seattle that was surprisingly diversified in its product line.
1566. marjoribanks - Jan. 25, 1999 - 7:06 AM PT
Re: Basmati
The best basmati rice is grown in the mountains and labelled as such at most Indian groceries. The very best kind is from Dehradun (labelled dehraduni) in the Himalayas. For me, its quite easy to tell the difference between the best basmati rices and the Texas or second-rate Indian/Pakistani brands. The difference is in the improbable length and individual fluffiness of each grain and especially in the scent. Good basmati, as Pseuder mentioned above, is aged for some time and should never never be overcooked.
Re: rice pudding
Only Brits or ex-British schoolboys could go on and on about the varieties of Ambrosia pudding or about rice pudding in general. Except in the version called Kheer I find all rice puddings stodgy and not worthy of attention.
Re: Kulfi
The authentic kulfi is made without nuts, it's called "Malai Kulfi" and , according to me, it's the very best ice cream to be had. In terms of richness and creaminess it puts all of the "premium" ice-creams to shame. The best commercial kulfi to be had is in Bombay, made by the legendary Parsi Dairy, which offers the original malai along with exotic variations including Alphonse mango, chickoo, custard-apple and watermelon.
Mondaugen,
The dessert you had was in fact 'rosogulla' (pronounced rasgula) the Bengali sister of the sweet Pseuder mentioned (ras malai). Most of the popularly available "Indian" sweets are in fact Bengali.
1567. marjoribanks - Jan. 25, 1999 - 7:09 AM PT
I make it a point to avoid all the -mati products of RiceTec, the giant Texas-based company (Texmati, Jasmati etc.) . Not only are they watered-down versions of the real thing, those fuckers managed to "patent" and register 'basmati' as their exclusive trademark, a situation I find completely ludicrous.
1568. marjoribanks - Jan. 25, 1999 - 7:11 AM PT
Seguine,
Make a trip into NYC's little India (btw I've met several fraygrants there) on Lexington between 29th and 28th St. Kalustyan carries at least thirty varieties of rice including Dehraduni basmati. You'll also be able to get that variety at some of the other stores on the street including my own favorite, Spice Corner.
1569. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 25, 1999 - 8:01 AM PT
Marzipranks (Message #1566)
Hmmm. My natural skeptical instincts are being aroused. I just don't believe you can tell the difference between Dehradun and all other Indian/Pakistani brands.
Quality exhibits diminishing degrees of discernibility. Most people can tell the difference between bad and good, even between good and excellent, but the many many fine gradations between good and excellent, whether in wine, rice or coffee, are in many cases not even physically discernible to the palate and thus probably just imagined.
Of course, "quality" depends on the presence of identifiable tastes, textures and so on, but I'm saying that _after certain levels_ many people contrive these nuances and exaggerate a fastidiousness in order to appear the regular epicurean and sophisticate. I don't say this is the case with Seguine, but it sounds very likely with Marzipranks.
(So, don't believe the wine connoisseur who can tell the difference between Château Margaux 1982 and Château Latour 1982. He is either lying or imagining.)
I've read about studies which asked participants to rank blends of coffee in order of preference. Turns out of many of the rankings aren't even transitive! Sure evidence of fakery...
Years ago, Skeptic Magazine ran a hilarious exposé of "stereophilia" -- the mania for obscure "high-end" stereo equipment, with names like Carver, KEF, Vandersteen and Krell. Basically, the gist of the exposé was that most of the nuances in this upmost range of quality could only be discerned by a dog.... So the magazine pitted the irreconcilably hostile devotees of KEF and Vandersteen speakers to a blind sound test. None could tell the difference between what they loved and what they hated.
1570. marjoribanks - Jan. 25, 1999 - 8:06 AM PT
FWIW, the best supermarkets I've ever been to in the USA are in the Rochester NY area, run by a chain called Wegmans. I was astounded to see that they have individual aisles (big, long aisles) for groceries from India, Thailand, Mexico etc. Don't ask me why this is necessary in Rochester.
In the UK, the mammoth variations of Tesco are excellent. Again, there is tremendous variety to be had. Though, if you're looking for South Asian stuff it's still always better to visit your local Indian grocer or the vast sub-con enclaves in Southhall, Wembley, Leicester, Birmingham or Manchester.
1571. marjoribanks - Jan. 25, 1999 - 8:10 AM PT
Pseuder,
Don't be silly, you're contriving an argument.
Dehraduni rice _is_ distinguishable from the common varieties of Indian/Pak basmati. Quite simply, its grains are improbably long and discernably fluffy and narrow, and its very scent is distinguishable from the others. Try it. You'll immediately understand what I'm talking about.
1572. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 25, 1999 - 8:15 AM PT
Well, I'm not saying that Dehraduni rice is indistinguishable from all other basmati rices, but surely it cannot be distinguished from all good basmati rices in India and Pakistan.
1573. marjoribanks - Jan. 25, 1999 - 8:24 AM PT
I admit that basmati rice falls into two general categories. The distinguishably superior and the distinguishably inferior. Dehraduni is simply at the very top of the former category and I can tell it from the mass of both categories.
BTW, do you think you can stop making hay out of this accusation that I am guilty of "exaggerated fastidiousness." Am I to pretend to be an untutored savage (you) incapable of epicurean discernment and unaware of the difference between the best and the merely passable?
1574. marjoribanks - Jan. 25, 1999 - 8:25 AM PT
I admit that basmati rice falls into two general categories. The distinguishably superior and the distinguishably inferior. Dehraduni is simply at the very top of the former category and I can tell it from the mass of both categories.
BTW, do you think you can stop making hay out of this accusation that I am guilty of "exaggerated fastidiousness"? Am I to pretend to be an untutored savage (you) incapable of epicurean discernment and unaware of the difference between the best and the merely passable?
1575. marjoribanks - Jan. 25, 1999 - 8:26 AM PT
Do I have to say it again?
1576. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 25, 1999 - 8:26 AM PT
By the way, Marzipranks makes it seem as though Dehraduni is rare or hard to get unless deliberately trying to, but I wager most who have frequently eaten subcon food have unknowingly tried it. To wit, both the Pari brand that Seguine mentioned she likes to buy, and the Elephant and Laxmi brands that I mentioned, are Dehraduni.
Frankly, I don't know what "improbably long" means, but all basmati rices I have ever had have been individually and "discernibly fluffly".
1577. marjoribanks - Jan. 25, 1999 - 8:30 AM PT
Next Pseuder will surely be raving about the delights of Muller yoghurts.
1578. msivorytower - Jan. 25, 1999 - 8:31 AM PT
"Quality exhibits diminishing degrees of discernibility. Most people can tell the difference between bad and good, even between good and excellent, but the many many fine gradations between good and excellent, whether in wine, rice or coffee, are in many cases not even physically discernible to the palate and thus probably just imagined"
I agree completely. I know I lose a sense of difference after a certain level of quality has been reached.
1579. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 25, 1999 - 8:31 AM PT
"Am I to pretend to be an untutored savage (you) incapable of epicurean discernment and unaware of the difference between the best and the merely passable?"
No, not unaware of the difference between the best and the merely passable, but finer gradations. See the top of Message #1569.
1580. marjoribanks - Jan. 25, 1999 - 8:34 AM PT
Well, having never heard of Pari, Elephant or Laxmi brands I can't assess their relative worth. I buy my rice in ten pound bags from Little India and these are clearly labelled 'Dehraduni' though occasionally 'Royal Dehraduni'.
1581. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 25, 1999 - 8:36 AM PT
And his eyes went starry and agog!
1582. marjoribanks - Jan. 25, 1999 - 8:39 AM PT
Er, if 1581 contains any meaning at all I'd like to know what.
1583. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 25, 1999 - 8:45 AM PT
But if you're an Asiatic there is no shame in exaggerated rice epicureanism, for it is not an individual flaw but an ethnic pathology. I've seen Punjabi peasants on my great-uncle's farm outside Lahore wax lyrical about varities of basmati. I've seen both Japanese and Pakistani rice sophisticates even discourse on the differences in rice between different years of harvest, as if the convention were being borrowed from wine. In fact, I think some brands of basmati rice do mark the year of harvest.
1584. Judithathome - Jan. 25, 1999 - 8:46 AM PT
pseudo:
re #1524: You are obviously better schooled in rice than I but I can tell you there is a difference in Japanese rice and the rices grown in Hawaii. My husband is Hawaiian and grew up eating rice every day, rice that was perpared by his families Japanese cook. He lived for many years in Japan and was also married to a Japanese woman at that time. So I take his word for it that he knows rice and his claims about rice do not represent any *epicurean pretense* nor was I aiming for such when I made my earlier statements.
I realize you feel yourself to be an authority on many things and so I will defer to you in many matters, especially those concerning exaggerated fastidiousness.
1585. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 25, 1999 - 8:51 AM PT
Judithathome (Message #1584)
There is little to no difference between the very best glutinous short-to-medium grain Japonica rice from Japan and the best of the equivalent from Hawaii/California.
This I say as a person whose first solid food was Japonica rice.
Was your husband a sumo wrestler in Japan? Many Hawaiians in Japan are sumo wrestlers...
1586. BunEBear - Jan. 25, 1999 - 8:54 AM PT
My experience with finding basmati at the major grocery stores around Chicago has been more consistent with Seguines. Although Fresh Fields used to carry basamati that was passable., it was twice as expensive as it should have been, and since they were bought out by Whole Foods, all they have is the bulk stuff which doesn't taste much different to me than standard rice. Jewel and Dominicks only have tiny packages for way too much, and are probably not good. Fortunately we go to Devon ave in Chicago for Indian food at least once a month, so it is no problem to pop into a grocery there for rice or whatever.
For other Chicagoans, we have found a decent middle-eastern grocery on Milwaukee near Dempster called Arax. They have some good Armenian stuff, pre-made Kuftes and Lamejens (pardon my probably misspellings, its my wife who is Armenian, not me). And of course on Foster near Clark there is the Middle Eastern Bakery.
1587. Jenerator - Jan. 25, 1999 - 8:57 AM PT
First Marjori freaks out about couscous, now Pseudo is lecturing us about rice.
Give these men some new books!
1588. seadate - Jan. 25, 1999 - 9:06 AM PT
lol
1589. marjoribanks - Jan. 25, 1999 - 9:09 AM PT
Well, rice is important to me. My favorite food (which I eat pretty much daily) is 'daal', lentils prepared in any number of ways (split, whole, sprouted) in a liquidy manner. Some 'daal' eaters prefer to have it plain , in a bowl. But I make a staple out of it mixed with rice and eaten with meats, fish and vegetables. The length and fluffiness of the rice grain is important because it makes for either a satisfying or unsatisfying mix with 'daal.' Dehraduni inevitably offers the best vehicle, though with certain curries I do prefer the unpolished "red" rice of Goa (unavailable in these United States.)
1590. Jenerator - Jan. 25, 1999 - 9:15 AM PT
Next week, and indepth analysis of MUSTARD, right?!
1591. Jenerator - Jan. 25, 1999 - 9:16 AM PT
Next week, an indepth analysis of MUSTARD, right?!
1592. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 25, 1999 - 9:23 AM PT
Jenerator (Message #1591)
Actually, I love talking about mayonnaise (aioli) the most. But I have witnessed too much exaggerated epicureanism about wine, coffee, rice, olive oil, vinegars, and other items that I inevitably turn skeptical. The epistemological connection between hyper-epicurean claims and UFO or Virgin Mary sightings is awaiting an innovative debunker.
1593. marjoribanks - Jan. 25, 1999 - 9:25 AM PT
Jenerator,
Talking about rice is no different from talking about bread. Is all bread Wonder for you? Cretin.
1594. bubbaette - Jan. 25, 1999 - 9:32 AM PT
marjoribanks
That sounds kind of like koshari (sp?) that my egytian roommate cooked. It was excellent, but seemed an all day affair to prepare.
1595. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 25, 1999 - 9:33 AM PT
Well, I think one can believe there is much more to bread than Wonder yet still _not_ accept that the best unseasoned leavened bread that could be had can only be found in a small village full of idiots in the southern- most corner of the Po Valley or the Dordogne, produced with a yeast extracted from wild yeast spores in the Nile Delta.
1596. Judithathome - Jan. 25, 1999 - 9:35 AM PT
pseudo:
No, my husband is not nor was he a sumo wrestler. There are many business men in Japan who are Hawaiian; sumo wrestlers can be business men, too, but in my husbands case, his fluency in Japanese was the draw, not his girth.
1597. Jenerator - Jan. 25, 1999 - 9:38 AM PT
PE,
So, which Mayo do you like the best?
As for coffee, all I can tell you is that the best coffee I ever had was that which I bought in B.C. and was "organically-grown-in-a-rain-forest" and cost fifty (!!) dollars a pound.
Hey Marj,
Give us an indepth analysis of gerkins, or something else as exciting as your previous posts on Indian rice.
1598. marjoribanks - Jan. 25, 1999 - 9:39 AM PT
bubbaette,
Rice cooked with lentils is common in many countries. In India, there is a version called 'kichri' which must be very much like koshari. I like them cooked separately and mixed at the table in individual portions.
Pseuder,
Know where I can get that bread? Sounds like the perfect dinner snack for my dogs.
1599. JaDeGoLd - Jan. 25, 1999 - 9:45 AM PT
So give, Marj.
How about some lentil recipes?
1600. pseudoerasmus - Jan. 25, 1999 - 9:49 AM PT
jenerator: I'm not sure I understand your question.
mayonnaise = an emulsion of oil, egg yolks, vinegar or lemon juice, and discretionary seasonings. Anyone with a blender can make it, and can make a different one every night. Obviously, the most variability is achieved in the seasonings, but there are many different kinds of vinegar that can be tried as well.
The one I made most recently had garlic, ginger and cumin, with ordinary white-wine vinegar. (Interesting variations can be had with port or sherry vinegar and rice wine vinegar.)