302. marjoribanks - April 23, 1999 - 7:42 AM PT
BTW, I'm still eagerly awaiting a dispatch on cricket as played in Bali from our own Fray batsman-in-the-making.
303. Pseudoerasmus - April 23, 1999 - 7:57 AM PT
"Actually, the Mayan-descended villagers I played basketball with all through the Yucatan were solid little fellows"
Well, some of the shortest people I've ever seen -- Mexicans and Peruvians of Indian ancestry -- were stocky as hell, cannonballs with panda-like hands that could crush the girlish digits of city-dwellers.
304. marjoribanks - April 23, 1999 - 7:57 AM PT
Sports-related travel tip:
Buy and carry with you a few cheap, colorful, frisbees. Kids (and older folk) off the beaten track all over the world get fascinated with it and eagerly join in impromptu games of catch-and-toss. It's a great way to get to know the people you're travelling among, and the gift of a frisbee (after a game) is always warmly recieved and appreciated.
When travelling in regions like the ones Pseuder is heading for, I find it very useful to take along a lot of chocolate (eg KitKats) or biscuits as give-aways too, as well as a carton of Marlboros. Sharing these little tokens is another excellent way to get to know people, have impromptu conversations, get invited to their homes. It's amazing what a pack of Reds can get done for you in remote places.
305. marjoribanks - April 23, 1999 - 8:00 AM PT
Re 303:
Yeah, imagine grappling for a rebound with three of them, or trying to stop one from driving the lane. The cannonball analogy is apt.
Needless to say, I took a lot of long outside jumpshots in the Yucatan.
306. marjoribanks - April 23, 1999 - 8:03 AM PT
The toughest little fuckers I've ever played basketball against were Northern Irishmen though. Both in tournaments and outdoors in Belfast, they were smallish and not very skilled or muscular, but cold savages nonetheless. They played defense as though their actual goal was to strip you naked and cut out your heart. I have a photograph of me bringing the ball up in a tournament against a teamful of these jackals and you can clearly see the fear in my eyes.
307. Pseudoerasmus - April 23, 1999 - 8:06 AM PT
Message #304
Well, I've generally taken along picture cards, like those of London Bridge or the Statue of Liberty, as well as tacky T-shirts. They've been hits in every Third World pit I've been to. If you ever see some Chitrali Kalasha folk wearing T-shirts reading "I'm OK You're OK", you know where they came from.
308. PincherMartin - April 23, 1999 - 8:08 AM PT
Everyone will get to see that same fear in your eyes when you play me, my son.
309. Pseudoerasmus - April 23, 1999 - 8:09 AM PT
But packs of cigarettes are much appreciated in Russia, though Western cigarettes haven't exactly been rare in the big cities. But the problem is that until a few years ago if I took along any I would have smoked them myself.
310. marjoribanks - April 23, 1999 - 8:10 AM PT
You're a pox to other travellers Pseuder. I'm never more revolted than when coming across interesting tribal-types attired in incongruous duds of the kind you mention. I have a photograph of a wonderfully bizarre looking Kinnauri tribal (from the border of China and India) with these unbelievable lines on her face and approximately 15 earrings in each year. Sadly, she's wearing a t-shirt saying "Don't Want no AIDS" or something like that. Say, ever been to Kinnaur?
311. marjoribanks - April 23, 1999 - 8:13 AM PT
Marlboro Reds are a kind of currency all over the former Soviet Union, and in lots of other places.
The only useful thing that you can take a Maldivian (actually the only thing period that they won't simply politely accept and put into a trunk forever) is a carton of Reds.
312. IrvingSnodgrass - April 23, 1999 - 8:21 AM PT
Marj:
Forget the Marlboros if you visit Indonesia... they are available everywhere. The frisbees you mention or the t-shirts PE suggested are a much better bet. Even better are baseball caps with sports team logos (preferably NBA teams).
One of the oddest sights I ever saw was a mountain villager in Sumatra wearing an honest-to-God bowling shirt with "Attleboro Lanes" embroidered on the back.
313. hashke - April 23, 1999 - 8:26 AM PT
PE:
The Egyptian adventures were in the summer of 1965, when you were but a fulguration in the vitreous oculi of your progenitor.
One day two friends and I rented a cab for a two or three trip into the desert south of the Fayoum. We were looking for the Roman ruins at Abu Gandir. So off we went, the driver running over a dog on the outskirts of Cairo and suggesting jocularly that we take it along for lunch. Down past Dashour and Meidum with its lonely Nubian sentinel and his 19th century rifle, and into the town of Fayoum for some 'food', where a fellow (felaah) at the open window of the qahwa squatted with the aplomb of a pope and sedately, among the milling camels, sheep, pigs, and clouds of dust, shat, thus making clear the origin of the flies on our watermelon and on the moist beards of the berbers next to us gorging at trough and spitting seeds on the dirt floor...
(continued)
314. Pseudoerasmus - April 23, 1999 - 8:27 AM PT
By the way, those thinking Pakistan entirely dry, alcohol-wise, and are therefore predisposed against going, should think again. Besides the private homes which are stashed with alcohol, top hotels in the large cities allow non-Muslim foreigners to sign an affidavit and consume wine, hard liquor or beer. Not imported beer, but home-grown Pakistani beer produced for foreigners: Murree, which tastes like they forgot to add hops. Plus, in the extreme north, the various (non-Pathan) tribals have been brewing strange drinks since pre-Islamic times. The Chitralis are rumoured to produced red wine, though I've never seen any, and the Hunzakots (with a reputation for jovial apostasy) are shameless moonshiners and slushes, drinking a cider-like concoction called "mel" as well as a mulberry drink called "arak". One of these Hunzakots rationalised to me, as he served me his viscous & gritty arak potion, that "arak" is like Christians or Jews, tolerated by Islam as the "ales of the book".
315. marjoribanks - April 23, 1999 - 8:28 AM PT
Irv,
I know Reds are available most places now. It doesn't really change their desirability in those places though. You can get them in the Maldives easily, it's the "imported" blend that makes them attractive. Same thing in India: locally made/licensed versions of these cigarettes are freely available. But the pack from duty free in NYC or London or Frankfurt is prized nonetheless.
Oh yeah, good point about the baseball cap. I swear, the Bulls logo and the Yankees logo have got to rival Coke's for ubiquity even in the most far-flung corners of this planet. I've even had a large Mahgrebi in the mountains of Morocco comment negatively about my (regulation) Yankees cap, comparing it unfavorably to his (apparently superior) red-and-white-striped version.
316. marjoribanks - April 23, 1999 - 8:33 AM PT
Ugh. Hashke.
It is an experience foreign to the West and most Westerners - this being forced to watch/interact with an adult casually shitting in the open. It is perhaps the most striking common vision visitors to India take back with them, and reminds me of why I spent a good deal of my travels during childhood with my nose buried in books at the expense of the countryside.
317. Pseudoerasmus - April 23, 1999 - 8:38 AM PT
Well, Hashke, I already related the story of how peasants in the north of Pakistan can routinely be seen squatting in the fields, covered up to their necks in sheets, and shitting nonchalantly. Not to mention the riparian shitting episodes in the Punjab (perhaps a more Indianised habit...) The interesting part is that in places like Mardan they are likely to be fertilising Buddhist remains.
318. Pseudoerasmus - April 23, 1999 - 8:41 AM PT
Of course you can also see Western trekkers in Pakistan going slightly native -- they shit into a hole, burn the paper, and wash from a bucket.
319. marjoribanks - April 23, 1999 - 8:44 AM PT
" covered up to their necks in sheets"
Lucky for the viewing Pakistanis. Poor slum-dwelling Indian city dwellers just head for the nearest ditch with a container of water, carefully pull up all clothes to the armpits and shit. If you're driving along a road in the very early mornings, for instance, you're greeted by a long line of working brown asses, sometimes for miles. The women and some men, out of modesty, will cover their faces. Unfortunately, this does not help much.
In villages, of course, people exercise much more propriety.
320. marjoribanks - April 23, 1999 - 8:52 AM PT
It gives the approach road from Bombay Airport to the city an undesirable version of the traditional greeting for dignitaries: the twenty-one bum salute.
321. Pseudoerasmus - April 23, 1999 - 8:53 AM PT
Message #319
Ah, yes, if you wake up early in the morning -- when motion is de rigueur among peasants, or it seems -- the clouds of sheets can be a surreally beautiful display amid the wheat and corn fields.
Of course, the only drawback is one becomes timid in rifling through the mounds of fascinating Buddhist rubble in the north.
During my brief visit to Bombay, the most interesting sight I saw was the juxatposition, in one of the maidans, of cricketers in white flannels jutxaposed and the pavement dwellers exposing their bare bums during nirvana.
322. Pseudoerasmus - April 23, 1999 - 8:54 AM PT
Message #320
Hahahaha!
323. vonKreedon - April 23, 1999 - 8:54 AM PT
Cog asked me, "Now if someone were only able to go to Alaska once for about a week, where would you recommend?" and also, "Do you have relatives up there thus your numerous visits?"
If you only had about a week, ooh that is hard. With only a week I recomend flying rather than driving as driving from Vancouver to Anchorage takes over two days, about five days round trip.
I'm going to assume that you like mountains, sea mammals, and moderate hiking.
So, fly to Anchorage and rent a car. Drive to Seward and hike up Marathon Mountain for the incredible view of the fjord. (Two days)
Take the ferry to Kodiak. The ferry is like a huge open air sea mammal aquarium, expect to see Dahl porpoises (look like toy Orcas) come over to surf the ferrie's bow wave, expect to see Orcas briefly (Orcas don't like the ferry and move quickly away at right angles), sea otters. You might see Humpback whales, I once watched a pod of Humpbacks breach repeatedly into a cobalt blue sky about a mile from the ferry. Don't stay long in Kodiak, unless you want to spend the money to fly out to a lodge on the island (not something I've ever done), but do hike up Barometer Mountain (at the end of the runway) and drive out to Fossil Beach (I don't know why it's called that, I didn't find any fossils). (Three days)
Take the ferry from Kodiak to Homer. Homer is sort of a Hippie/Artsy/Tourist town, I love the place. Check out the bars and shops at the end of what I believe is the worlds longest sand spit. (two days)
Drive back to Anchorage and catch a plane out. (one day)
Total = eight days, but really this is simply not enough time and you have traveled much too fast.
Answer to question number two is that I went up to Alaska to process sea food, so my experience of Alaska is VERY low rent. Mostly hitchiked and slept outdoors.
324. incognito - April 23, 1999 - 8:55 AM PT
i once saw a "buffalo dolphins" t-shirt with the proper miami colors.
325. marjoribanks - April 23, 1999 - 8:56 AM PT
Well, the Bombayite starts to exercise a strange kind of selective eyesight. I do it myself. We can take in the large picture without actually seeing the mixed-in individuals crapping away. I'd only have seen the cricketers in the maidan.
326. hashke - April 23, 1999 - 9:00 AM PT
(continued from Message #313)
To make a long story short, we left Fayoum, well-nourished with fly protein and toward the end of the day and after many wrong turns, found the ruins...some sherds, a few fallen columns...nothing the size of those at Bubastis in the Delta, but of interest.
At dusk we entered a nameless village where the sheikh made an appearance to shake our hands. After we shuyukh (broken plural of 'sheikh' -- I couldn't resist that) hands he asked us to sup with him in his mud brick house.
By now it was quite dark and by the light of a tallow lamp we sat on the packed dirt floor to a meal of fuul, the inevitable `eish baladi, and coffee. The chickens, pecking at unseen stuff and running here and there about the floor and through the food were a minor distraction, for the conversation was lively, and the sheikh's wife lingering in the flickering shadows emerged at strategic times to brush away the chicken droppings.
Later, as we walked through the village on our way out into the desert, we could see, through the open doorways of several houses lit by tallow, chickens hustling about.
Our night of sleep in the desert was very sound.
327. marjoribanks - April 23, 1999 - 9:06 AM PT
Lovely recollection, Hashke.
You may be interested in one of my very favorite books - 'In an Antique Land' by Amitav Ghosh. I highly recommend it, and would love to hearyour thoughts if you read it.
(From Kirkus Reviews)
"An engrossing chronicle of historical detection smoothly integrated into a subtly shaped picture of village life in modern Egypt; by an Indian novelist (The Circle of Reason, 1986) of great sensitivity and power. Enrolled as a cultural-anthropology graduate student at the University of Alexandria, Ghosh settled in 1980 into the Egyptian farming village of Lataifa. Two years earlier, he had become interested in ancient manuscripts found in a storeroom of a tenth- century Cairo synagogue; included in the cache were letters from a Jewish trader, who mentioned his Indian slave. Intrigued, Ghosh pursued the identity of his 12th-century countryman. The author's findings about the daily activities of slave and master make fascinating reading (e.g., that the slave represented his master in financial dealings), and alternating with this historical data are chapters detailing Ghosh's gradual assimilation into the life of Lataifa. His affectionate portraits of the villagers and of their often colorful idiosyncracies (for example, the complicated relationship between the Imam and his estranged first wife) attest to his perceptivity as a sympathetic observer of a rapidly changing society."
328. hashke - April 23, 1999 - 9:20 AM PT
marjoribanks:
It was just a poultry tale.
In retrospect I would love to experience it all again.
Thanks for the book tip. That looks terrific. I'll check amazon right now and hope they have it.
329. hashke - April 23, 1999 - 9:24 AM PT
PE Message #321:
"...pavement dwellers exposing their bare bums during nirvana."
Was it a full moon?
330. Pseudoerasmus - April 23, 1999 - 9:25 AM PT
The Lumière Brothers wouldn't have mistaken those for cheese, I tell you.
331. marjoribanks - April 23, 1999 - 9:31 AM PT
Hashke,
Cool. I'm sure you'll like the book. Ghosh is arguably (and imo) the very best of all the contemporary Indian writers in English. His last book 'The Calcutta Chromosome' is less wonderful than the one on Egypt, but still a curiously engaging and racy detective story with the overall theme of malaria research.
332. Pseudoerasmus - April 23, 1999 - 9:35 AM PT
Describe "Calcutta Chromosome".
333. marjoribanks - April 23, 1999 - 9:39 AM PT
I thought I just did.
It's subtitled "A Novel of Fevers, Delirium and Discovery."
334. marjoribanks - April 23, 1999 - 9:41 AM PT
But read the Egypt book first. It's his best, even better than his excellent first two novels. I'd put 'Calcutta Chromosome' last, though it's more accesible to readers unfamiliar with the subcontinent and its writers and still a very good read.
335. marjoribanks - April 23, 1999 - 9:56 AM PT
Hashke,
I'd forgotten, but Ghosh's book is also a tale most fowl. A synopsis follows, I managed to pullet from Amazon.
"In the 1980s Amitav Ghosh moved into a converted chicken coop. It was on the roof of a house in Lataifa, a tiny village in Egypt. During the day he poured over medieval letters sent to India from Cairo by Arab merchants. In the evenings he shut out the bellowing of his fat landlord by turning up the volume of his transistor radio and wrote stories based on what he had seen in the village. "
336. marjoribanks - April 23, 1999 - 9:59 AM PT
The internet is an andaful thing. Baida simple use of search engines one can access tanti-lyzing things.
337. marjoribanks - April 23, 1999 - 10:02 AM PT
baida, anda = egg (Hindi)
tanti = egg (Konkani)
(I may be the only one laughing, but I'm hard-boiled that way.)
338. Pseudoerasmus - April 23, 1999 - 10:19 AM PT
Yes, but you've also got a narmal head.
339. IrvingSnodgrass - April 23, 1999 - 10:28 AM PT
Hashké:
Ayam sure they can telur funny.
(apologies for a pun only hashké (and ProfE, if he's around) will get)
340. Pseudoerasmus - April 23, 1999 - 10:31 AM PT
I've never heard of baida, but anda is egg in Urdu also.
As for Hashke's brilliant English-Russian pun, "yeah it's so" = yaitso = egg.
My less cleaver response was "I like mine glazed", as in Easter eggs, but "glazoonya" = fried eggs.
341. marjoribanks - April 23, 1999 - 10:32 AM PT
Narm actually only means lukewarm. But it's not too bad an effort.
342. Pseudoerasmus - April 23, 1999 - 10:32 AM PT
narm = soft in Urdu
343. marjoribanks - April 23, 1999 - 10:35 AM PT
"My less cleaver response was "I like mine glazed"."
Chaku another one up. You can kriss me, Hashke.
344. hashke - April 23, 1999 - 10:51 AM PT
Irv:
LOL! But not unless they have telurvisi.
Irv, do you know Tagalog? My doc, who is now a good friend, is a Filipino. I would like to surprise him with a broadside of Tagalog.
I can give you a list of stuff I'd like to use, take the high ground before he can fire back. The internet has some thin material, but not quite what I want.
345. rickc2000 - April 23, 1999 - 10:52 AM PT
Greetings strangers. Been a while. Hope you are all well. I am going to be in Seattle arriving this Sunday and leaving Wednesday. I will be staying downtown. Any suggestions on food, music, clubs, activities etc that should not be missed. I can't hang out her but I will check in latter. I will also post this in the Corner. Thanks!!
346. hashke - April 23, 1999 - 11:01 AM PT
marj and PE:
Big guffaws here on those Wortspiele! There is a place in the Egyptian delta called TanTa -- not far from Zagazig (pronounced in Egyptian Arabic *'za'azi'*. To get there you have to zagazig through marshland.
Arabic=baiD, or baiDa. Egyptian Arabic=beiD
I've ordered Ghosh's book and am eagerly looking forward to reading it. And also Misia!
347. hashke - April 23, 1999 - 11:06 AM PT
PE:
'narm=soft in Urdu'
N-urdu-wells are narmally soft.
348. marjoribanks - April 23, 1999 - 11:09 AM PT
"I've ordered Ghosh's book and am eagerly looking forward to reading it. And also Misia!"
Hashke,
Great. I look forward to hearing your thoughts about both.
349. IrvingSnodgrass - April 23, 1999 - 11:11 AM PT
hashké:
My Tagalog has never been very useful, and now suffers from 30 years of minimal use. I have more knowledge of Cebuano. And unfortunately, since I've been in Bali, I've been cut off from my Filipino friends. I know maybe 100 words of Tagalog. Send along your stuff, and I'll see what I can do.
350. marjoribanks - April 23, 1999 - 11:11 AM PT
Hashke really is a master at these puns.
"N-urdu-wells are narmally soft" is brilliant.
351. hashke - April 23, 1999 - 11:20 AM PT
Irv:
Thanks! Shall I put in Language or emu it?
marj:
Jeez, I do appreciate that accolade!!! And I enjoyed the chicken coop excerpt. Ghosh amighty, this writer seems to be very cagey with a pen, unless he cribs.
352. IrvingSnodgrass - April 23, 1999 - 11:24 AM PT
haské:
emu it, after all... anda kan guru?
353. hashke - April 23, 1999 - 11:39 AM PT
Irv:
Saya kan guru? Tentu saja, tetapi dimana dan apa soalnya ini?
354. IrvingSnodgrass - April 23, 1999 - 12:15 PM PT
Hashké:
Emu, kanguru... dua-duanya adalah bintang dari negeri selatan. It's an old joke (Anda kan guru? = You're a teacher, aren't you?; Anda kanguru = You're a kangaroo).
355. hashke - April 23, 1999 - 12:42 PM PT
Irv:
Hahahaha!
Boy, you nailed me on that one! And my answer now looks totally ridiculous of course. Interesting though, the 'kan' I read as the shortened form of 'akan', rendering the question as future, 'Will you be a teacher?'.
I really thought you had in mind my helping someone there in Bali with English in exchange for some emu chatter in Indonesian. Interesting also is the placement of 'kan', a short form for 'bukan', which, because of my limited experience with Indonesian, I've seen only at the end of a sentence.
My answer, for the non-Indonesian speaker: 'Of course, but where and what is it all about?'
356. hashke - April 23, 1999 - 4:00 PM PT
Irv:
Anda jumplang, seperti kanguru?
357. ProfEmeritus - April 23, 1999 - 4:09 PM PT
Irv
Re 339: I was out doing my "daily dozen" (12.6 to be exact) on the bike trail. Ayam sure you can telur pals we can eieren out any misunderstanding. Do you approve, Hashke?
358. ChristinO - April 23, 1999 - 4:16 PM PT
Haske & Irv,
While it's a miracle that I speak one language with any proficiency I'd be happy to solicit the aid of my co-workers for your Tagalog questions if you like.
Irv, you've got my e-mail if you need and are welcome to pass it along to Hashke.
359. IrvingSnodgrass - April 23, 1999 - 4:25 PM PT
hashké:
I never really thought about where "kan" comes from, but it makes sense that it comes from "bukan," though the two aren't interchangeable except when "kan" appears at the end of a sentence:
Anda kan guru?
Anda guru, kan? (less common but allowable construction)
Anda guru, bukan?
All of the above mean "You're a teacher, aren't you?" Compare with:
Anda bukan guru? = "You mean you're not a teacher?"
"kan" can be used with other constructions than just a NP:
Dia kan sibuk?
Saya kan dari Amerika?
Kamu kan akan datang besok?
Dia kan sudah bilang berkali-kali bahwa dia kerja di sana.
"jumplang" bukan kata umum. Mungkin Anda dapatkannya dari kamus. Mungkin lebih cocok mengatakan sesuatu yang menyebut "menjumpai kanguru."
360. IrvingSnodgrass - April 23, 1999 - 4:27 PM PT
Hashké:
Can't recall if you know Dutch, but ProfE's pun is quite good as well (eieren = telur-telur).
Christin:
Thanks! That will come in very handy.
361. ProfEmeritus - April 23, 1999 - 4:55 PM PT
Irv:
Now you have gone and dann it; you clued in Hashke.
("Dann is tan4 in the Wade-Giles system).
362. IrvingSnodgrass - April 23, 1999 - 5:05 PM PT
ProfE:
And here I thought you were egging me on.
363. hashke - April 23, 1999 - 5:06 PM PT
ProfE:
No clue necessary (I don't think). 'Eier' is German for 'egg'. Beautiful connected punning there!
364. hashke - April 23, 1999 - 5:11 PM PT
Irv:
I realize that 'jumpalang' was a stretch but could not resist the coincidence. Besides, kangaru is short of leg in front and long in back. And 'menjumpai' looked like it would sort of distort the effect.
365. hashke - April 23, 1999 - 5:28 PM PT
ChristinO:
Thank you for your help!
366. hashke - April 23, 1999 - 5:31 PM PT
Irv:
Thanks for all the examples! It would be great to get my Indonesian up to snuff for a trip to Bali, but 'weiss der Geier wann' (only the buzzard knows when).
Now, what about my 'akan' plea as a short substitute for 'kan'?
367. hashke - April 23, 1999 - 5:53 PM PT
Irv and ProfE:
Ayam ricuh dan bancar. (spoken by a Russian, who naturally has neither definite nor indefinite articles).
368. hashke - April 23, 1999 - 6:05 PM PT
Make that 'Ayam ricuh dan bangkar'. (by same Russian.
Dammit, 'bancar' is almost perfect, but won't work, unless Russian is also ignorant of pronunciation of 'c'.
369. RyckNelson - April 23, 1999 - 6:52 PM PT
Mungkin Anda dapatkannya dari kamus.
Possibly you can find someone who has a dictionary.
370. hashke - April 23, 1999 - 7:00 PM PT
Ryck:
It reads 'Perhaps you got it (or 'found it') in a dictionary'.
Anda ahli bahasa?
371. RyckNelson - April 23, 1999 - 7:16 PM PT
'Tak
Saya bercakap kecil bahasa, M'sia.
Tidak berilmu sintaksis.
372. ProfEmeritus - April 23, 1999 - 7:19 PM PT
Hashke:
Kata-kata anda bagus, tetapi saya sendiri tidak ricuh atau bangkar.
373. RyckNelson - April 23, 1999 - 7:36 PM PT
great tyou understand, nevertheless you are not alone, this is either difficult or confusing
Pengalaman eksperimen.
374. RyckNelson - April 23, 1999 - 7:49 PM PT
Tidak kelakar, saya sedang berikhtiar mengalih-bahasakan.
375. RyckNelson - April 23, 1999 - 7:53 PM PT
I hope your laughing instead of taking it too seriously. I'm trying this with nearly zilch experience. Fifteen years of knowing it's here and not using it. But, now and then I really want to know.
376. hashke - April 23, 1999 - 8:15 PM PT
ProfE:
Benar dan baik sekali, tetapi telur dalam bank, bukan?
Ayam tak bosan, tetapi telur yang dalam bank bosan sekali.
Ryck:
Is that last English supposed to be a translation of ProfE's Indonesian? If so, give it another shot. These are translingual puns containing frivolous double meanings.
'Pengalaman eksperimen'
Macam eksperimen bagaimanakah itu?
377. hashke - April 23, 1999 - 8:22 PM PT
Ryck:
LOL, but your Indonesian looks like it has potential. I'm no expert, so go to Irv and ProfE untuk kebijaksanaan mereka.
378. RyckNelson - April 23, 1999 - 8:31 PM PT
Saya tanpa kata.
Saya faham anda kata, satu sindiran. (illusion)
379. RyckNelson - April 23, 1999 - 8:36 PM PT
I know you're literally using Bahasa Indonesia but, the cross over has been nearly complete. I've a Bahasa Malaysia Kamus and I've been following slowly, using that source. I'm vaguly familiar with syntax and have the barest rudimentary vocabulary.
Thanks for this.
380. IrvingSnodgrass - April 23, 1999 - 8:41 PM PT
Ryck:
Hashké's Message #370 is the correct meaning.
Ternyata Anda juga mempunyai kamus. Atau mendapatkan kata-kata dari isteri?
Hashké:
I can't remember if I ever tried out the popular bilingual Indonesian puns on you:
Dua Mobil Warna = Two Car Color (= Tukar Kolor = "Change your underwear")
Try this one out:
Dasi Dan Kursi
These are very popular here, as are t-shirts with sayings like "Go Young Some Pay Pig Girl" (Goyang sampai pegel = "Dance till your back aches.")
381. IrvingSnodgrass - April 23, 1999 - 8:44 PM PT
Ryck:
sindiran = joke (with a nasty or ironic edge)
If you're looking for a word for illusion, try "ilusi" (easy, isn't it?).
382. IrvingSnodgrass - April 23, 1999 - 8:45 PM PT
Ryck:
sindiran = joke (with a nasty or ironic edge)
If you're looking for a word for illusion, try "ilusi" (easy, isn't it?).
383. IrvingSnodgrass - April 23, 1999 - 8:48 PM PT
'Scuse the double post. The Fray is a little bit funky today.
384. RyckNelson - April 23, 1999 - 8:55 PM PT
does dan curse?
Irv,
I tried using that form of sindiran as it appeared in my Bahasa M'sia Kamus under the heading 'word' or kata. It said "a play on words: satu sindiran". Then I looked up sindiran and saw its universal "ironic edged" meaning. It had the word illusion in the context but I knew it was mostly if not all derogatory. I used it anyway.
It's fun reading and translating some of this. Thanks for the interest to give me hints.
385. IrvingSnodgrass - April 23, 1999 - 9:06 PM PT
Ryck:
No, you have to translate "dasi dan kursi" into English first, then you get a play on words in Indonesian.
386. RyckNelson - April 23, 1999 - 9:30 PM PT
does he dance= dansa-dansi
387. hashke - April 24, 1999 - 7:39 AM PT
Irv:
Dasi dan kursi=necktie (tie) and chair=tai (tahi) encer=excrement watery=watery shit -- better known as la venganza de Moctezuma.
388. IrvingSnodgrass - April 24, 1999 - 7:43 AM PT
hashké:
Bingo!
389. RyckNelson - April 24, 1999 - 7:56 AM PT
kursi=kerusi for me. I couldn't have gotten that one anyway. But, it's cool to check out this fad. Do you have one that you could cross over to Malay for me. I'm not saying I'll get it, but, I like puzzles.
390. hashke - April 24, 1999 - 8:04 AM PT
Irv:
I'm still chasing you for the use of 'kan' for 'akan', because it changes the semantics of the sentence. According to Echols 'akan' can be shortened, i.e., saya akan guru = saya kan guru = I shall be a teacher. No? ;-))
391. IrvingSnodgrass - April 24, 1999 - 8:07 AM PT
hashké:
I have never seen akan shortened to "kan," except very rarely in poetry or song. Certainly not in everyday usage.
392. IrvingSnodgrass - April 24, 1999 - 8:09 AM PT
Ryck:
I'll see if I can think of some that work in Malay as well.
393. RyckNelson - April 24, 1999 - 8:20 AM PT
hashké,
kan, akan have nearly the same meaning in Malay. Kan is a casual suffix to verbs. I have heard it used.
394. RyckNelson - April 24, 1999 - 8:24 AM PT
Ika guhan guru'
395. IrvingSnodgrass - April 24, 1999 - 8:36 AM PT
Ryck:
The "kan" suffix is not related to "akan."
396. RyckNelson - April 24, 1999 - 8:41 AM PT
"kan, akan to, towards; casual suffix to verbs."
Direct quote from my Kamus Times; Inggeris-Bahasa Malaysia/ Bahasa Malaysia-Inggeris.
397. RyckNelson - April 24, 1999 - 8:42 AM PT
Ika' guhan guru'= you are a valuable teacher.
398. IrvingSnodgrass - April 24, 1999 - 8:57 AM PT
Ryck:
Your dictionary is misleading if it indicates a relationship between akan and the "kan" suffix. The "kan" suffix is found in many Austronesian languages in similar forms ("han" in Tagalog, "keun" in Sundanese), and does not carry any individual meaning.
"kan" on its own in Indonesian is only a short form of "bukan," except in very limited poetic contexts. As far as I can tell, in the Malay of Malaysia, it is a short form of "akan," and not "bukan."
399. RyckNelson - April 24, 1999 - 9:02 AM PT
Yes, that's my point it's specific to Malay. I didn't want to mislead it to be referencing any Bahasa Indonesia semantics. I see we agree.
400. IrvingSnodgrass - April 24, 1999 - 9:11 AM PT
Ryck:
The use of "kan" for "akan" is specific to Malay. But the "kan" suffix has no relation to "akan" in *any* language.