202. Pseudoerasmus - April 21, 1999 - 6:03 PM PT
Actually, as some of you may have already divined, my primary travel interest is the Eurasian landmass plus North, Saharan & East Africa. I think of the rest of the world as non-linger, rush-through zones.
203. AuNaturel - April 21, 1999 - 6:36 PM PT
"Oh, Hashke: I believe my post on nudist Yugoslavia disappeared into the abyss."
Could you repost that for me? Thanks.
Three factors are the primary determinant of maximumm temperature.
Elevation - the lower the elevation the greater the compression heating from surrounding areas. This really shows up in Death Valley and the Salton Sea area. The Santa Ana winds of southern California are also hot due to compression heating coming over the San Gabriel mountains.
Proximity to water - water is a tremendous heat sink. The cooler the water the bigger the heat sink. This can also warm up areas that would otherwise be cold. Areas far from water have higher highs and lower lows. An area that receives little rainfall will also be hotter as the local moisture both acts as a heat sink and cools as it is evaporated.
Lattitude - Azure is right in this respect. That is why the poles are so cold. But between about 40 north to about 40 south it has little effect on maximum summertime temperatures.
204. PincherMartin - April 21, 1999 - 6:43 PM PT
Professor Emeritus --
I have to agree with your assessment of Phuket's beaches. I spent three days in Phuket and was very disappointed with them (I only saw a half dozen, however). The golf, on the other hand, was quite good.
205. ProfEmeritus - April 21, 1999 - 7:51 PM PT
PE
I very much like your list of interests in 201. When I mentioned people in 200, I meant interacting with the locals as much as possible. I rarely find myself in situations where I cannot chat with the the folks around me. If I cannot converse in either one of my or one of their languages, I travel with an interpreter (usually taxi driver). A favorite destination is the local outdoor market place. The people are always willing to chat - especially with a foreigner who looks as out of place as I do in Asia, 6'1", 200 pounds.
I think I have never visited a larger city without checking out the major university. It is surprising to me that I have never been refused. I usually ask for a relatively high official like a dean and am referred to people in my field of interest. In perhaps 40-50 university cities around the world, I have never been unable to converse in English but sometimes revert to the local language. This is one the rare cases where my proficiency in the foreign language is better then the host's English.
My wife does not quite share my travel priorities; but we are quite happy in going our own individual ways. PE, you may be interested in this observation in view of your marital plans.
206. alistairconnor - April 21, 1999 - 8:22 PM PT
Message #181 That's a very impressive itinerary, Pseud.
Just bear in mind what happened to Alexander the Great, and don't overreach yourself.
207. hashke - April 21, 1999 - 8:32 PM PT
PE:
I agree with ProfE. Your list on 201 is about as I would draw it up, with more or less the same order of priorities. Chatting with the locals of whatever cultures and languages, on buses, benches, in the shops, wherever, is what a lot of the best travel is all about.
And place matched to food is a prime consideration. In Madrid, for example, there is nothing wrong with downing tapas stand up in a crowded corner spot and then expanding later evening to somewhere like the Plaza Mayor for chilled gazpacho ajo blanco rinsed back with vino tinto...Rioja, por favor.
208. Pseudoerasmus - April 21, 1999 - 8:44 PM PT
AC (Message #206)
That's just a possible future itinerary. Have you seen my actual itinerary for this summer in Message #7?
209. Pseudoerasmus - April 21, 1999 - 8:51 PM PT
Message #205
One of the prime travel interests I didn't mention in that list because it's sort of hard to explain is what can only be called a romantic-antiquarian interest. For example, I once explained in another thread that there are some places barren of any apparent interest, whether scenery, people or architecture, yet still fascinate & allure on account of past events. Of course, Eurasia is full of places like that, but one such place which resonated with me is a nothing little place called Besham in the Indus Kohistan district of the NWFP in Pakistan. There is nothing there, nothing at all, but an unimpressive riverbed of the Indus. There are much prettier & more scenic riverbeds upstream and downstream. But that's where Alexander the Great supposedly crossed the river. I once lingered in the area for an hour just breathing in the imagined romance.
210. Pseudoerasmus - April 21, 1999 - 8:53 PM PT
There was also a second crossing at Taxila, but the town of Taxila is actually very interesting in the conventional sense, especially for the Mauryan, Gandharan and Bactrian ruins, mostly strewn about in fields where you can see farmers squatting with sheets & shitting.
211. MsIvoryTower - April 21, 1999 - 8:54 PM PT
Gad!
The thought of PE dreamily staring at a nothing little riverbed in the middle of nowhere is a bit staggering.
212. MsIvoryTower - April 21, 1999 - 8:57 PM PT
I really believe you were born in the wrong century, PE.
You'd have made the perfect aristocrat with nothing on his mind but travel and scribbling down his adventures.
213. Pseudoerasmus - April 21, 1999 - 9:01 PM PT
Message #207
I'm an inveterate sampler of street food, whether it's just kebabs in Lahore (though "just" is misleading, since Lahore kebabs are celebrated) or pickled cow ears, which I once tried in a Quito market.
As for language, I almost always try to learn the rudiments of the language of the place I'm visiting -- unless it's a very short visit or the language is really much too hard, like Chinese. But then in China I have managed to communicate primitive meanings like "train station" by scribbling notes in kanji.
214. Pseudoerasmus - April 21, 1999 - 9:16 PM PT
DavidTudor: A boy though you think I am, I am rather inspired by ProfEmeritus's marital experience to conclude that perhaps you are married to a shrew.
215. Pseudoerasmus - April 21, 1999 - 9:53 PM PT
By the way, hashke, profE, when I talk of an "interest in cultures & peoples" I mean them in a pretty broad, even eccentric sense.
To wit, I find people's faces & features fascinating, a kind of amateur anthropometrics. For example, in the Crimean resort town of Alushta, I once happened upon a group of Ukrainians who had the most fantastic epicanthic folds. I couldn't just stare, but I wanted to examine them, so I paid them some money to let me do so. Now, there are many East Slavs with this feature (like the Lost Son of Tatarstan, Vladimir Ulyanov aka Lenin ), no doubt because of the Tartar element in their ancestry, but these were something else. These folks looked perfectly Caucasian in every other respect but the Mongoloid folds. (Surely in an earlier epoch I would have been a phrenological crank.)
216. Pseudoerasmus - April 21, 1999 - 9:56 PM PT
The Ainu of Hokkaido have seen a fair share of intrusion & traipsing into their midst by me, as well. Though they are thoroughly modernised, in much better economic shape than American Indians.
217. AzureNW - April 21, 1999 - 10:04 PM PT
How much have you traveled among American Indians?
218. Pseudoerasmus - April 21, 1999 - 10:08 PM PT
Message #217
If you mean Indians of North America, I haven't even met a single one.
I haven't even travelled much in the United States. In fact, I think I've been been outside of the Boston-Washington corridor Northeast only four short times: Chicago, San Antonio TX, California and Florida. But there are lots of places I want to see in America, especially Alaska and the Southwest.
219. Pseudoerasmus - April 21, 1999 - 10:10 PM PT
I've seen other New World native peoples though, in Mexico, Guatemala and Ecuador.
220. AzureNW - April 21, 1999 - 10:14 PM PT
I'm looking forward to spending a lot of time in Alaska and the Southwest, too.
221. Pseudoerasmus - April 21, 1999 - 10:17 PM PT
But everything I want to see in the United States is pretty much limited to natural scenery. I have no interest in Eskimo villages or American Indian settlements.
222. AzureNW - April 21, 1999 - 10:18 PM PT
(All of my free time resources, vacation, gets wasted on exploring the US and connecting with family exactly this way, in fact. It probably will take a while for me to get off this hemisphere.)
223. AzureNW - April 21, 1999 - 10:19 PM PT
Idiot, Indians are Americans. You see them EVERYWHERE.
224. AzureNW - April 21, 1999 - 10:23 PM PT
America is an Amrerican Indian settlement in some significant ways. Take a closer look at what you are looking at.
225. AzureNW - April 21, 1999 - 10:26 PM PT
anyway, I have to get up really early.
226. Pseudoerasmus - April 21, 1999 - 10:28 PM PT
Indians are Americans. Yes. So what? I'm pretty sure I've never seen one in person. I guess I mean full-blooded ones.
227. AzureNW - April 21, 1999 - 10:31 PM PT
Get a mixed-blood to show you around some time.
228. Pseudoerasmus - April 21, 1999 - 10:34 PM PT
AuNaturel:
Yugoslavia before the troubles was an international centre of "naturist" (nudist) resorts and attracted all manner of Germans, Scandinavians and Eastern Europeans, a fact which Jugotours stressed & advertised in fat brochures. I didn't know about it at all until one of my favourite professors in college (though outside my major) published an essay on the subject in Vanity Fair or Harper's or perhaps another of those quasi-literary magazines. Well, I was inspired to go. Though I went to Yugoslavia with my then girlfriend, I was rather interested in seeing the horde of young nubile & nude Scandinavian women that I imagined would be prancing around the rocky coasts of Dubrovnik. God, what a contrast with what I had imagined! Mostly what I saw was pot-bellied Germans and Scandinavians, without a bit of self-consciousness about their nudity, as though they were reject models in some depiction of a lakeside picnic by Manet ("Déjeuner sur l'herbe").
229. IrvingSnodgrass - April 21, 1999 - 10:36 PM PT
ProfE Message #200:
What is it you don't like about Pelabuhan Ratu? It's not a beach for swimming (it is much too dangerous). But most of the coast at Pelabuhan Ratu reminds me of PE's description of Malta: strong waves dramatically crashing upon rocks. I find such a scene beautiful and romantic. I also like the fact that the area remains undeveloped and natural. There's something about a long stretch of road with the ocean on one side and nothing but rice fields on the other which I find very calming in overcrowded Java.
As for Phuket, I'm not a beach person, so the beaches there didn't thrill me, but they were lovely in the classic tropical sense (white sand, blue water, great swimming). The rest of the island was not terribly interesting, however.
I would also add the ugly beach at Kupang in Timor to your list of less-than-impressive Indonesian beaches.
PE:
Your list in Message #201 is very similar to my own, although I have little interest in "wildlife."
Pincher Message #204:
I spent two weeks in Phuket a few years back, and I'd have to agree that the only memorable feature was the golf. I was unable to get a tee time at Blue Canyon (did you play there?) but the other courses I played on were excellent.
230. Pseudoerasmus - April 21, 1999 - 10:42 PM PT
Snirv: I would not go to a country just for wildlife, but if there are interesting specimens around in a country I'm already in, I'd certainly make sure to see them. I particularly want to see the one-horned rhinoceroses of India, as well as the Indian lion. I was quite surprised when I first heard that there even were rhinos and lions outside Africa.
231. AzureNW - April 21, 1999 - 10:47 PM PT
so are we all animals.
232. IrvingSnodgrass - April 21, 1999 - 10:54 PM PT
PE:
The only animals I would make an exception for are the Javan and Sumatran Rhinoceroses, both of which are almost extinct. They are extremely docile animals, and have almost disappeared because they seem to *like* being around people. They are one-horned and have armor-plated bodies. Otherwise they are similar to Indian rhinos.
I got to know a Javan rhino at the Jakarta zoo. He lived in an enormous enclosure, but would come when his name ("Jelu") was called, and liked having his snout scratched. I always brought him an apple or two.
233. AzureNW - April 21, 1999 - 11:01 PM PT
Wow, Irving, I have to say in the last seconds before lights out, I've never seen a Sumatran Rhinoceros, but I'm dreaming about giant turtles.
234. Pseudoerasmus - April 21, 1999 - 11:06 PM PT
Snirv: I believe Indian rhinos are also one-horned, but I don't think they are particularly friendly. Their disposition is similar to their African cousin's. Have you seen Javan peacocks? I understand they have a different colour scheme from the mainland ones.
235. Pseudoerasmus - April 21, 1999 - 11:12 PM PT
Pakistan has got white peacocks, quite rare species, in a preserve at the Lal Suhanhra National Park.
236. IrvingSnodgrass - April 21, 1999 - 11:20 PM PT
Javan Rhinoceros
Sumatran Rhinoceros
Rhino Information
The Javan Rhino page says there are no captive Javan rhinos, but I know of one as of a year ago.
237. IrvingSnodgrass - April 21, 1999 - 11:25 PM PT
PE:
Yes, I didn't mean to imply that Indian rhinos were not also one-horned. The major differences in Javan and Sumatran rhinos (as opposed to Indian rhinos) is their smaller size and their disposition, both of which have worked against them.
I've seen various Indonesian peacocks in bird parks in Jakarta and Bali, and they don't seem to be as colorful as peacocks elsewhere. They're also smaller.
238. Pseudoerasmus - April 22, 1999 - 5:34 AM PT
Oh, yes, another attraction of northern Pakistan is that cannabis grows freely and wildly and luxuriantly along the roads in the countryside. It's just a matter of bending down to grasp a clump. They grow in the humid areas like Mingora, Mardan and the Indus Kohistan (often sprouting out from Buddhist ruins). In order to dry your harvest quickly it's only a matter of travelling a few km out to the drier areas like Swat or the Kaghan Valley. Of course, if any of you should ever go to Pakistan, confine your consumption to the countryside, don't do it in the cities and certainly never never attempt to take any out of the country. Think Midnight Express, a hundred times worse.
A conservative alternative is to hire a car & driver, open the window, stick your head out, and breathe deeply as the car navigates the scenic routes.
239. PincherMartin - April 22, 1999 - 6:43 AM PT
Irv -- Message #229
"I spent two weeks in Phuket a few years back, and I'd have to agree that the only memorable feature was the golf. I was unable to get a tee time at Blue Canyon (did you play there?) but the other courses I played on were excellent."
I don't think I played at Blue Canyon. The two courses I did play at (I think) were the Phuket Country Club and Banyan Tree Club. Both of the courses were beautiful. The most amazing thing about the courses in Phuket to a person habituated to playing on California courses was how many workers were on them. When I played at the Banyan Tree Club, I bet there were only ten to twenty golfers on the course and about two hundred workers cutting the grass, clipping the hedges, helping golfers with their bags, taking your photo as you swung the club, etc.
I also played Golf at two other locations in SouthEast Asia -- Sentosa Island in Singapore and a course 30 minutes outside of Kuala Lumper (I have forgotten the name, but it was very close to the old airport). The Malaysian course was wonderful to play as monkeys and beautiful birds were a part of the course's scenery.
240. IrvingSnodgrass - April 22, 1999 - 6:53 AM PT
Pincher:
When I was in Phuket, I played the Phuket CC three times and it was very nice. I also played at a course on the mainland off the north end of the island which was one of the finest courses I've ever played on (though I've forgotten the name of the course).
I've also played Sentosa in Singapore (as well as two other courses there). It was a nice, though less memorable course.
I know what you mean about all the workers on the golf courses in Thailand... the same is true in Indonesia. Golf courses here favor labor intensive methods of maintaining the course. I've heard that on golf courses in Bangkok, each player gets two caddies -- one to carry the bags and one to carry an umbrella to protect the golfer from the sun. By contrast, when I played at Sentosa in Singapore, there was one caddy carrying the bags for two players.
241. PsychProf - April 22, 1999 - 6:57 AM PT
So Snod...what is left for your servant to do?
242. IrvingSnodgrass - April 22, 1999 - 6:59 AM PT
PP:
Somebody has to wash the clubs and clean the golf shoes.
243. ProfEmeritus - April 22, 1999 - 8:21 AM PT
Irv
Pelabahan Ratu Beach: What good is a beach in the tropics if you can't safely go into the water for a dip to cool off? I admit that the beach tennis was pleasant; the sea breeze, a plus factor. But the scenery didn't do much for me compared to other spectacular beach sites in Indonesia.
244. PsychProf - April 22, 1999 - 8:22 AM PT
Prof....do you have servants also?
245. hashke - April 22, 1999 - 8:29 AM PT
Message #228
Hahaha! Very good! There are always the swagbellies sur la plage.
It is a blessing that they are not athletic enough to haul those bloated breadbaskets down over the huge boulders rimming the Adriatic where one marvels at only birthday-suited sylphs, naiads, dryads, ondines and kelpies.
246. IrvingSnodgrass - April 22, 1999 - 8:30 AM PT
ProfE:
I'm not fond of swimming in the ocean. One emerges salty, sandy and uncomfortable. I prefer beaches for the view, and the dramatic (and dangerous) rocks and surf of Pelabuhan Ratu are perfect for me. Swimming is much nicer in swimming pools (of which Pelabuhan Ratu has a few good ones).
247. davidtudor - April 22, 1999 - 8:33 AM PT
Pseudo - lets compare notes again, say, in a couple of years. Lots of reasons for long periods apart in a marriage, or even for living what is in essence separate lives while in the same dwelling, etc. (I am thinking in particular of Iris Murdoch and her husband who apparently spent much of their married lives being silent in terms of real conversations with one another.) But, sustained separate vacations would be rare, in my opinion, principally because I think it would be more fun to take same with one's spouse (although your projected itinerary might not be palatable, maybe even safe, to or for most women). Well, you and yours may indeed be rare. (I wasn't being critical, incidentally. Whatever works for a couple is the way it should be.)
248. ProfEmeritus - April 22, 1999 - 8:37 AM PT
PP
Re 244: At the moment only one, and she wouldn't like this post because I am married to her.
Irv
Anyhow, the food is good in and around P.Ratu.
249. IrvingSnodgrass - April 22, 1999 - 8:50 AM PT
ProfE:
The fact that most people like swimmable beaches is fine with me. It means Pelabuhan Ratu is less crowded.
250. Pseudoerasmus - April 22, 1999 - 9:45 AM PT
Message #247
Tudor: I have constantly talked about taking one's spouse on these kinds of journeys, and one doesn't always have to travel through Iran or Pakistan, you know. Moreover, you keep assuming that we would be living in the United States. That won't be the case for the first three years of our marriage, and likely not the first six.
251. Pseudoerasmus - April 22, 1999 - 9:47 AM PT
Message #245
A significant exception to the insouciance and je m'en foutisme of even the most veteran "naturist" is the strong inclination never to expose the least comely part of the human anatomy.
252. ProfEmeritus - April 22, 1999 - 9:53 AM PT
Irv
I have some negative feelings about Pelabuhan Ratu precisely because it was overrun by obnoxious tourists at the time I was first in that area. I was wandering around the South Sukabumi region in 1979 with an Indonesian colleague looking at the poorest villages.
It was suggested that we might like to cool off by having a dip at the local beach. When we got there we were confronted by several buses filled with Dutch tourists, and the tour guide informed us that we would not be welcome. It was suggested that we would be out of place.
I would like to tell you more about the experiences in the boondocks, sleeping and eating in the villages. It happened to be during Puasa - the fasting month.
But I have to run off to tennis now and will hope to continue later.
253. Pseudoerasmus - April 22, 1999 - 10:15 AM PT
Tudor: Also, lots of foreign women travel through these less liberal countries. They're just best accompanied by men.
254. davidtudor - April 22, 1999 - 10:32 AM PT
Pseudo - this is really carrying this little diversion much farther than it merits, but what in the world did I say that leads you to conclude that I was assuming you and your wife to be would be living in the U.S.? I was only commenting on travel and the general topic of sustained separations while married. Locale while married never entered my head.
255. incognito - April 22, 1999 - 10:58 AM PT
I echo Irv's sentiments about the beach. I actually look for beautiful beaches more for the photographical potential than anything else. I have been to some quite beautiful ones too. The Seychelles for example were magnificent.
As were the topless bathers! :-)
And no I didn't take any pics of THOSE areas!
Rhinos to me are such a magestic beast. It is such a pity that so many of them have been exterminated.
256. hashke - April 22, 1999 - 11:00 AM PT
Message #251
And what might that be, other than a bay window?
You mentioned Teotihuacan. My wife and I went out there in a local bus full of peasants with caged chickens and other bichos. That is a gorgeous area and La Pirámide del Sol is estupendo!
I've never seen a pyramid I haven't wanted to climb, most of them no sweat at all. I remember Uxmal as being very steep with narrow steps. Ropes were necessary to come down. Chichen Itza was a piece of cake. La Pirámide del Sol was an easy walk up the steps.
I climbed Khufu (Cheops) at Giza a half dozen times. Often got there before dawn, went up, descended to have a breakfast of goat cheese, 'eish baladi' and Stella beer (a reasonable brew) on the terrace of a derelict cafe that faced the Sphinx (Abu Alhool -- Father of Terror),
and watched the first rays of sun strike that colossus and the pyramids behind it to the west.
Of the three pyramids at Giza, Khufu and the very small Minqara are climbable. One would need some equipment, I would think, to ascend Khafra'. The huge stones of Khufu make climbing a leg stretch, but no problem. In 1995, the last time I was in Egypt, climbing was forbidden.
Did you climb the pyramids in Mexico and Guatemala, or do you dig that kind of fun?
I also climbed the bent pyramid of Dashour after being chased away by the Egyptian military from a Badwi encampment
257. Pseudoerasmus - April 22, 1999 - 11:22 AM PT
Message #256
Yes, I've climbed the pyramids in the Yucatan, though I recall both Uxmal and Chichen Itza as being rather steep. But my favourite memory of the Yucatan is the huevos motulenos sold on the streets all over Merida. Even more enjoyable than Teotihuacan outside Mexico City, is spending time looking for pieces of Aztec monuments wedged in corners and foundations of churches & public buildings in Mexico City. Every so often some dragon-like countenance sticks out of a church side. Have you ever been in Xochimilco?
The dawn pyramid climb at Giza seems kind of de rigueur for visitors. The few times I did it, I wasn't alone -- there were dozens of others and that detracted from the pleasure. But again, it's food that I remember from the monumental outskirts of Cairo, specifically the Zoser (?) step pyramid in Saqqara, where I recall pilfering dates from the innumerable (and unguarded) date plantations.
258. incognito - April 22, 1999 - 11:24 AM PT
I've been to the Yucatan as well and enjoyed it thoroughly although I don't know how on earth you can remember all those names!
259. Pseudoerasmus - April 22, 1999 - 11:24 AM PT
Of course pilfering them off the baskets of harvested dates, I wouldn't brave the heights of those date palms!
260. incognito - April 22, 1999 - 11:27 AM PT
The other day we were talking about various places we'd like to visit and I mentioned several. I was wondering if ANYBODY here has actually been to these places:
Antartica
Iceland
Alaska
New Zealand
Easter Island
As I recall vonKreedon gave directions for driving BC to Alaska so I assume he actually did it himself!
I looked into renting houses/cottages in Iceland about a year ago and they were reasonably priced.
261. CalGal - April 22, 1999 - 11:29 AM PT
Hashke,
I think I told you this before--I went from Queen HotchickenSoup's temple to the Valley of the Kings using the direct route. Up, over, and down that rather large ridge in between. (Mountain or hill?)
And as I recall, you told me the name of it. Again, please?
262. vonKreedon - April 22, 1999 - 11:46 AM PT
Cog - Yes, I have been to Alaska several times. Now Alaska is a big place, so let me say where in Alaska I have been: Haines, Tok, Glenallen, Anchorage, Seward, Kenai, Homer, Kodiak; Fairbanks, Denali; Akutan, Togiak, Dillingham.
263. davidtudor - April 22, 1999 - 12:00 PM PT
Well too bad you clarified that. I was enjoying conjuring up an image of you trying to climb up one of those date palms. Even the sweetest of dates would not be worth that.
264. hashke - April 22, 1999 - 12:38 PM PT
PE Message #257:
I climbed the Egyptian pyramids in the '60s, when you were still Mosesing around in swaddling clothes.
Except for a couple of friends there were no other pests around in those days, not even the obnoxious camel 'turgomen' who badger the hapless present day flea scratching tourist, so we had Khufu and the whole Giza shebang to ourselves at that time of the morning.
Yes, I have been to Xochimilco. Great spot, and the floating mariachis were terrific. We boarded a bus to get there and I got into a conversation with a guy wearing coke bottle bottoms for glasses who spoke seven languages, including Yiddish, but can you believe it, pas d'anglais. To change buses we had several blocks to cover in Mexico City and he went with us as a guide the whole way. Such are the better moments of travel.
265. hashke - April 22, 1999 - 12:42 PM PT
incognito Message #258
How do we remember what names? No, just kidding. The only reason that I can come up with is that we are language maniacs.
266. marjoribanks - April 22, 1999 - 12:46 PM PT
Good stuff Hashke.
I have also climbed the pyramids of the Yucatan, and found the sites quite intriguing. Particularly fascinating was a ballfield where a game was played through hoops. I spent a lot of time in contemplation there.
This may be because I played basketball with the locals all through the Yucatan. Every small village has a church with a square in which there is a basketball court where young men congregate near nightfall.
267. incognito - April 22, 1999 - 12:49 PM PT
hashke gotcha! :)
vonKreedon thanks. Now if someone were only able to go to Alaska once for about a week, where would you recommend?
Do you have relatives up there thus your numerous visits?
268. hashke - April 22, 1999 - 12:51 PM PT
CalGal:
Did you have a head code when you were at HotChickenSoup's temple? She might not find too cool your name (though I do) for her digs.
She called it 'Djeser Djeseru' -- 'Splendour of Splendours'. The Arabic name is 'Deir 'alBahri' -- Northern Monastery.
The cliffs separating the temple from the Valley of the Kings (Wadi alMuluk) are the Theban Hills. There is a pathway from the temple to the valley (a furnace even in the winter) on the other side.
269. hashke - April 22, 1999 - 1:05 PM PT
marjoribanks Message #266:
Thanks! Yes, from the tops of the pyramids the views were of dense jungles stretching away à perte de vue. There were also iguanas lazing about here and there. And the hoops projected horizontally from the walls and were intricately decorated with carvings.
270. hashke - April 22, 1999 - 1:08 PM PT
The hoops, of course, were of stone.
271. marjoribanks - April 22, 1999 - 1:14 PM PT
They are also small, and placed 30-40 feet from the ground.
I threw some stones through them. It was difficult. Imagine 40 warriors trying to throw you to the ground before you could manage to fling a small hide ball through them. Apparently a good portion of the losing team was ritually sacrificed. That's some serious stakes.
272. hashke - April 22, 1999 - 1:21 PM PT
marjoribanks:
I wonder if they knew while they were having all that fun that they were going to be wasted by the priests?
273. marjoribanks - April 22, 1999 - 1:28 PM PT
Hashke,
Despite the excesses we are told that the Mayas indulged in, I remain quite unnerved by the level of destruction and eradication the native peoples of the Americas were subjected to. These great monuments of the Yucatan were covered by vegetation and forgotten just a hundred years ago.
274. AzureNW - April 22, 1999 - 1:38 PM PT
dammit, I wish I could linger and chat.
275. AzureNW - April 22, 1999 - 1:42 PM PT
Ball games were a very big deal in the Southeast, too, where a kind of lacrosse was popular. A game court was a major feature in the center of every important town.
I don't know if you've gotten around to talking about that game yet, but I gotta go anyway.
276. hashke - April 22, 1999 - 1:59 PM PT
marjoribanks:
Yes, it is indeed incredible, and bloody well unforgivable.
Btw, I checked out 'Garras dos Sentidos' at amazon but haven't yet bought. How does Misia in your opinion compare to an Amália Rodrigues, a Fernanda María, or to the more recent fadistas, Mafalda Arnaut, or Argentina Santos. Is her approach traditional?
During our last trip to Lisbon in the late '70s we heard Fernanda Maria sing at her place, Lisboa a Noite up in the Bairra Alta. She was a bit peevish that night because there were so few customers, but she nevertheless sang as only a great fadista can.
If you haven't been to one of these cafes watch out for the bones in the bacalhau!
Have you seen Paul Vernon's "A History of the Portuguese Fado"? It is rather expensive, but good, and it contains a CD with some of the older fadistas.
277. hashke - April 22, 1999 - 2:03 PM PT
I'm off. Vou a tirar uma sesta! Até logo!
278. Pseudoerasmus - April 22, 1999 - 2:10 PM PT
"Particularly fascinating was a ballfield where a game was played through hoops."
Yes, but how about the ballgame with the vertical stone "hoop" wherein the victor was sacrificed?
Of course, if it weren't for Marzipranks's own 5'2" Andaman stature, his basketball games with 5-footer natives in the Yucatan would not be so sporting.
279. Pseudoerasmus - April 22, 1999 - 2:15 PM PT
Message #273
But the Mayan ruins were mostly just lost to the forests! And now mostly recovered!
The Aztecs and the Incas suffered WHOLESALE destruction of their monuments. Mexico City, Quito, Lima, and Cuzco, once the Persepolises of the Western Hemisphere, were razed, erased, disappeared. Spanish Baroque structures are substituted in their places, largely built with pieces from their forerunners. The replacements are pretty, uniquely Spanish American, but still a matter for lamentation and wistfulness. Nothing comparable could be said for the Mayan ruins.
280. marjoribanks - April 22, 1999 - 2:16 PM PT
Hashke,
I was brought up to consider Amalia the standard, the ultimate in fado.
Misia's albums are reminiscent of her music , if not as sonorous. Buy the album I recommended, I promise it won't be dollars misspent.
281. Pseudoerasmus - April 22, 1999 - 2:17 PM PT
It was the victors in the Mayan ballgame who were ritually sacrificed, and they died willingly. Or so it is said.
282. davidtudor - April 22, 1999 - 2:22 PM PT
Which, I suppose, means that those who were defeated were sore losers.
I somehow doubt it, in the secret recesses of their hearts.
283. Pseudoerasmus - April 22, 1999 - 2:27 PM PT
Message #264
Since I was born in 1968, probably when you were in Egypt I was still but a prelude to the forunner to an ululation before the ovulation.
284. hashke - April 22, 1999 - 4:26 PM PT
PE:
That was a lulu of a yolk!!! Veddy, veddy clevah!
"The cradle rocks above an orchasm and common sense tells us that our existence is but a brief crack of light between two eternities of darkness."
Whom am I paraphrasing above (but only very slightly)?
285. hashke - April 22, 1999 - 4:30 PM PT
Assuming that your 'ululation' refers to an expression of sexual ecstasy.
286. Pseudoerasmus - April 22, 1999 - 4:36 PM PT
Nabokov
287. Pseudoerasmus - April 22, 1999 - 4:36 PM PT
but the paraphrase is very very clever! you're a master at this.
288. hashke - April 22, 1999 - 4:44 PM PT
Thanks. Your praise makes me eggstatic!
289. Pseudoerasmus - April 22, 1999 - 4:53 PM PT
No, really, I'm going to repeat that hilarious modification of the sentence to every earnest Nabokov fan that I run into. Hahahahaha!
290. marjoribanks - April 22, 1999 - 5:07 PM PT
This whole discussion is ovablown, albumen yolk!
291. hashke - April 22, 1999 - 5:09 PM PT
PE:
My sincere congratulations on your nabbing the Nabokov so quickly!
Vladimir Vladimirovich himself would have been étonné.
Btw, I knew his son, Dmitri, at Garvard.
We'd better get this thread back on topic before the Geheim Staats Polizei cometh.
I'll see if I can think of a chickenish or eggish travel anecdote.
292. Pseudoerasmus - April 22, 1999 - 6:05 PM PT
For a really ovablown conversation, have it over a balut in Manila with a nice Chinese girl named Polly Tsai.
293. Pseudoerasmus - April 22, 1999 - 6:06 PM PT
And tell the snooping pigs to go home.
294. hashke - April 22, 1999 - 6:25 PM PT
Yeah, it's so.
The above, in vague response to 293, has within it either a chicken or an egg. Which one? I don't know why I'm giving you a clue. You'll probably nail it immediately.
295. Pseudoerasmus - April 22, 1999 - 6:38 PM PT
I like mine glazed.
I feel like Anthony Burgess.
296. Pseudoerasmus - April 22, 1999 - 6:42 PM PT
I think "yeah, it's so" is the best cross-lingual pun I've ever read. Really, I'm not prone to this much flattery, especially not with a man.
297. hashke - April 22, 1999 - 9:11 PM PT
PE:
Bingo! Just like the clockwork that I expected from you!
My local server has been down for two hours.
Re Message #292 I don't know what 'balut' is, so I'll just have to tagalog.
298. Pseudoerasmus - April 22, 1999 - 9:19 PM PT
balut = a Filipino dish, pickled duck egg
299. hashke - April 22, 1999 - 9:29 PM PT
Thanks, PE. That one caused me polysighs?
It's racktime. I've never spent so much time at the fray. I don't know how you guys do it and get other stuff done. I have to GET TO WORK, but I'll come up with a mildish Egyptian chicken anecdote tamale.
300. IrvingSnodgrass - April 22, 1999 - 9:34 PM PT
PE:
balut is *fertilized* duck egg, eaten raw (though usually pickled in soy sauce).