302. CalGal - Feb. 6, 1999 - 3:48 PM PT
Cellar,
But if they found it attractive, wouldn't they avoid it?
303. PincherMartin - Feb. 6, 1999 - 3:50 PM PT
"I think all people who are passionately committed to political dogma--left or right--are boring."
People who are committed to politics of any bent are very unsexy, but seducing a right-winger probably has more joys since you get to feel dirtier when you do it.
304. Mrtoner - Feb. 6, 1999 - 3:54 PM PT
Re #287 MsIvorytower:
I tried to come up with a clever bumper sticker for economists, but I failed.
Does anyone else have any ideas?
305. PincherMartin - Feb. 6, 1999 - 3:55 PM PT
How about, economists have nicer curves.
306. darkviolet - Feb. 6, 1999 - 3:57 PM PT
Re: Message #295
Well, the conversation points out how scrutinized and judged women are for their attractiveness. That's why female modesty is an issue. A woman's choice of attire and demeanor is more than a statement of her personal taste, it carries the weight of a statement of her entire person.
307. Pseudoerasmus - Feb. 6, 1999 - 3:58 PM PT
Their demand curves are kinked.
308. CalGal - Feb. 6, 1999 - 4:00 PM PT
Pincher,
"People who are committed to politics of any bent are very unsexy, but seducing a right-winger probably has more joys since you get to feel dirtier when you do it."
I dunno about "dirtier". And I don't believe in seduction. Silly concept.
And if we're going to go into generalities, I'd say it is devotion to dogma--political being merely one of a variety--that I find tedious.
309. CoralReef - Feb. 6, 1999 - 4:01 PM PT
MrToner: anything involving 'externalities', ''liquidity trap' and 'stagflation' would work. Or just 'economists do a Thurow job of it'.
310. CalGal - Feb. 6, 1999 - 4:02 PM PT
Actually, Slackjaw did a glorious rant once on how an economist "talks dirty". It's on my webpage somewhere; maybe there's bumper sticker potential in there.
311. darkviolet - Feb. 6, 1999 - 4:14 PM PT
marjoribanks -
Re: Message #164 Message #169
"I find Indian womens clothes (saris, ghagras, salvars) very beautiful."
Wow, I agree.
In the NW our main fashion directorate, Nordstrom, is including styles showing more and more Indian and other Asian, especially Muslim Asian influences; long, loose skirts and sheer layers, demure, utterly feminine.
Asian fashions are quite a departure from the jeans most American women wear all the time, but I know a lot of us would love to feel comfortable wearing such beautiful, soft and flattering clothes, so I think we will eventually be fashionably globalized. I hope so.
312. darkviolet - Feb. 6, 1999 - 4:19 PM PT
I would think men would welcome being able to wear something like the cotton tunics and pants Pakistanis wear. Looks a lot more comfortable than dockers.
313. darkviolet - Feb. 6, 1999 - 5:11 PM PT
(Oops, it seems like a black cat, or at least a very dark one, has crossed the path of this merry party. Sorry.)
314. PincherMartin - Feb. 6, 1999 - 5:17 PM PT
CalGal --
"I dunno about "dirtier". And I don't believe in seduction. Silly concept."
What do you mean silly?
315. resonance - Feb. 6, 1999 - 5:59 PM PT
For fuck's sake.
Well, the dialogue did suck. But really.
316. resonance - Feb. 6, 1999 - 6:04 PM PT
It is my experience that American women generally look best when they aren't trying to look good. When they try to look good they often look hideous. I get to see the veritable flowering bloom of quintessential American beauty every day, and it generally looks much better on a Tuesday night lounging on a couch than it does on a Friday night getting ready to hit the clubs.
317. darkviolet - Feb. 6, 1999 - 6:29 PM PT
Crown Prince Abdullah is kind of physically ugly. It's simply his lot in life to have a plain face and a thick body. He undoubtedly looks obscene in some of his clothes. But a photograph of him in swimtrunks and a shirt showing his nipples in the newspaper wouldn't be seen as immodest or obscene. If he were a physically ugly woman, it would be immodest.
318. MizPhys - Feb. 6, 1999 - 6:34 PM PT
Res-
Bless you darling, you're a man who appreciates women, not mannequins.
I have a husband who also knows there's nothing sexier than a real live competent woman being herself.
319. aldavis - Feb. 6, 1999 - 7:05 PM PT
"A slight disorder in the dress,
Kindles in men a wontenness,
320. CoralReef - Feb. 6, 1999 - 7:07 PM PT
It's the broken windows theory.
321. darkviolet - Feb. 6, 1999 - 7:14 PM PT
I don't know the broken windows theory.
Would you explain it?
322. CoralReef - Feb. 6, 1999 - 7:23 PM PT
I will in News of the Day thread.
323. MrSocko - Feb. 6, 1999 - 8:03 PM PT
Message #177
I'm sure Mr. Loar has been to Hawaii. But so have I. That means that *both* of us will likely find your comment meaningless. Here's a hint, Martin: Don't take up travel writing.
324. aldavis - Feb. 6, 1999 - 8:19 PM PT
Mr Socko
After living in Hawaii for 20 years, let me assure the only apt generalization is "completely rascist."
Have you ever noticed that when a celeb female is asked what she likes in men, she always say, "He must have a sense of humor." HAhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahhahahah Is that why stand up comics have groupies?
325. PincherMartin - Feb. 7, 1999 - 12:08 AM PT
Socko --
You are the guy that went to Taiwan and thought the Chinese food sucked. You are also the guy who thought Harry Lee was some kind of Presbyterian elder. I could see you spending years in Hawaii and still not fucking get it, but that's just you, I suppose.
My comments were simple because I didn't want to make them extended. Mr Loar said that I should go to Hawaii to see Asian-Americans who are still Asian despite spending their formative years in the States. As I said, I have lived five years in Hawaii and five years in Asia, not to mention growing up in California where there is the largest population of Asian-Americans in the continental United States. Among the younger generations (anyone under forty), there is nothing less Asian than an Asian-American. They invariably do not speak the language of their ancestors, or speak it very poorly. They intermarry with other races at very high rates. Their friends are largely people of other races. Many of those who have still not converted to Christianity are embarrassed by what they perceive as their parents crude religion (Usually a mixture of Buddhism and religious Daoism). The only remnants of Asian culture they have left is a dedication to education and committment to family that is higher than what you find in the states, *but* still far lower than what you see in Asia.
Now Hawaii is not any different. In some cases it is even worse. The free and easy-going atmosphere of Hawaii tends to make much less hard-working students out of even the dedicated Asians; who wants to do homework when you could go to the beach. Furthermore, you get even greater race-mixing in Hawaii than other places in the United States. A second generation Asian-American in Hawaii is more likely to be some mix of races than a full-blooded Japanese, Chinese, Filipino, whatever. The influx of military personnel also adds to this mix as they sometimes marry the local girls, and stay in Hawaii. The Hawa
326. PincherMartin - Feb. 7, 1999 - 12:09 AM PT
The Hawaiians have a well-known term for the half-breeds of such unions -- hopa, I believe it is -- and they are considered to be among the most beautiful creatures in the islands. The Asian-Americans in Hawaii are not in enclaves in Hawaii preserving their culture from the East. Yes, there is a Chinatown and other similiar groupings of certain Asian ethnic types in Honolulu, but most people there are either fresh off the boat or very old people who had there formative experiences in other lands. They are not the Asian-Americans that we are discussing who have grown up in the states.
327. Pseudoerasmus - Feb. 7, 1999 - 12:12 AM PT
"They intermarry with other races at very high rates. Their friends are largely people of other races."
This is belied by the clustering of Asian-Americans on campuses across the country! Perhaps California is different, but somehow I doubt it.
328. Pseudoerasmus - Feb. 7, 1999 - 12:14 AM PT
Of course who could disagree with your verdict on Socko's wits. He hasn't a clue about anything.
329. PincherMartin - Feb. 7, 1999 - 12:28 AM PT
I believe the statistics on intermarriage for Asians (nationwide) is about 45%. Asians have recently had a tremendous surge in immigration, not to mention the large foreign contingent that almost every major campus in the country has. Part of this might explain the clustering you observed without contradicting my point.
330. Pseudoerasmus - Feb. 7, 1999 - 12:32 AM PT
I don't believe the 45% statistic.
And no, recent immigration and the foreign presence can't explain it. In fact, Asian-Americans of different generations as well as foreign students (especially those from English-speaking places like Singapore or Hong Kong) would very often be found in the cluster.
This is true of subcons as well.
331. Pseudoerasmus - Feb. 7, 1999 - 12:34 AM PT
I thought the self-segregation of Asian-Americans, especially on campuses, was indisputed. Certainly it has always appeared to me a conventional wisdom.
332. Pseudoerasmus - Feb. 7, 1999 - 12:41 AM PT
You appear to be right about data, again.
About 15% of married couples with an Asian American partner were "interracial or interethnic" in 1990, though whether "interethnic" allows for one kind of East Asian to marry another kind, I've no idea.
"In 1990, 40 percent of married U.S.-born Asians had a spouse of another race or Asian ethnic group, up from 35 percent in 1980. The percentage was notably lower among foreign-born Asians, 17 percent."
333. PincherMartin - Feb. 7, 1999 - 12:53 AM PT
PE --
I don't understand the disparity in your two paragraphs in Message #332. 15% and 40%?
334. Slackjaw - Feb. 7, 1999 - 12:58 AM PT
Well, a while ago I returned with the wife from dinner and a show in LA, so I have some observations on beauty and allure.
We had dinner at Spago, the quintessential beautiful person's hangout, which is an interesting image considering that a sizable chunk of the clientele (the Slackjaws excluded, one hopes) looked like total buffoons. What compels Angelino women to wear flip flops with 4 inch foam rubber soles to one of the most respectable restaurants in the city? (btw, that lore about the small portions is crap...the food was spectacular and plentiful.) Lots of perfume, hairspray and jewelry. Few beautiful or alluring women.
The show was the typical mixed bag one finds at shows. There was the occasional representative of the UC-Riverside drama club, with bright colored prom dress and matching shoes, 4 inch bangs, etc. (Funny how Riverside and the non-university Midwestern city are on about the same fashion wavelength). Many were dressed quite informally, in jeans or those pants for the contemporary suburbanite with all the pockets and a loop for a hammer, and this wasn't just young people.
One of the things I find least attractive about folks around here, men and womyn, is the informality of dress on even the most special occassions. It deadens the atmosphere for everyone, not just the informals, as if this is about on par with a trip to the grocery store. I find it very alluring to be with a well dressed woman for an evening out (luckily I was), and I suspect the feeling is mutual. Perhaps the attire per se isn't what's alluring, but a more important variable correlated with it: a sense of presence. Those who lack it don't get dressed up in the first place. But, on the other hand, a woman with presence has the sense to do something to set the evening apart from one's daily routine. This contributes I think to an anticipation about the evening, or even anxious excitement with the right person.
335. Slackjaw - Feb. 7, 1999 - 12:58 AM PT
And that sense of anticipation can make even a plain looking woman alluring if she plays her cards right--though I guess that through years of looking dull the ability to create that anxiety atrophies. But it's not necessarily connected to physical beauty.
I will say that I have known many American women, beautiful or otherwise, with the ability to create that anticipation. Don't know whether they're better at it than foreign women because I haven't known enough of the latter.
336. resonance - Feb. 7, 1999 - 12:59 AM PT
I've never noticed a notable Asian-*American* tendency to cluster into little social enclaves on campuses, PE. That *is* what he is talking about, no?
Having said that, I think that PM's ramble on Asian-Americans is otherwise inaccurate and imprecise. At the very best, he is guilty of making a hasty generalization (no matter how many years he spent constructing his slanted perceptions in this matter).
337. resonance - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:01 AM PT
Jesus, did you just say 'womyn'?
338. Pseudoerasmus - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:02 AM PT
Hey, Slackjaw! What's up?
Message #333
Yes, I wondered about that too. But you can look at the source.
Message #336
Well, you're on some hinterland campus, no? All the same, I've noticed the clustering at the two Ivy league schools I have attended, plus another which I know well.
339. PincherMartin - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:03 AM PT
Dissonance --
Its clear from your Message #336 that you never read my "ramble"
340. Slackjaw - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:04 AM PT
hmmm...
Keynesians do it on demand
economists have convoluted posteriors
economists have unbounded type spaces
My personal favorite candidate: economists have freakishly large genitals. This won't really work for the female economist, of course.
Maybe it would, but nobody could possibly want to know.
341. resonance - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:05 AM PT
Yes, I'm in the boonies (rolling eyes). But I've spent plenty of time on other campuses, some of which even probably come close to the PE definition of blue-blooded sophistication.
342. PincherMartin - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:06 AM PT
For one thing, it was PE, and not I, who originally brought up the clustering on campuses.
343. Pseudoerasmus - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:09 AM PT
Message #340
Monetarists believe in a steady supply.
Keynesians like it horizontal.
344. PincherMartin - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:10 AM PT
Dissonance --
You are free to tell me at any time where I am being inaccurate and imprecise.
345. resonance - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:11 AM PT
Why's that? Because I said you made a 'hasty generalization'? Fuck, man, you've been full of them the last few hundred posts. Or is it just because I don't agree with you, that you're convinced I never read your posts? Do you really expect someone to view statements like 'there's nothing less Asian than an Asian-American' as being precise? Or that we should look at your generalizations -- because that's what they are, PM -- as being accurate for an entire, highly diverse group of people? I mean, for fuck's sake, you're just calling them Asians and having done with it, treating them like some kind of cultural monolith and ignoring the noticeable differences between ethnic groups and heritages. Why should anyone take you seriously when you say such things, much less lend 'accuracy and precision' to your words?
346. Slackjaw - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:12 AM PT
well, yes I did use it, facetiously.
Greetings, PE and all. Nothing too much new. Well, just saw Rent, and really enjoyed it. Going to see van Gogh 2 weeks from today. Trying to get my candidacy paper into shape. Which means, at this point, onto paper. Trying to avoid indigestion at the thought of one Beth Skinner charging around claiming to be an economist.
347. Slackjaw - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:13 AM PT
clarification...
the van Gogh exhibit, at a museum. Not the man's corpse.
348. resonance - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:14 AM PT
Message #342
I specifically addressed that comment to PE. You know, with the sneaky little letters P and E, put together in that covert fashion right in the middle of the frickin sentence you're referring to? A terribly hard thing to divine, you know. Do you read *my* posts, PincherMartin, or are you just projecting your own inabilities upon other posters?
349. Slackjaw - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:17 AM PT
Message #343
hahahaha
350. resonance - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:19 AM PT
"well, yes I did use it, facetiously. "
Thank God. I thought that one of the anchors of Fray rationality had been uprooted for a moment, there.
351. Slackjaw - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:28 AM PT
I do, however, use "her-story" at whenever I get the chance.
Evidently there are people who believe "history" has something to do with the male possessive pronoun. My wife had a teaching assistant in college who seriously used "womyn" and "herstory."
352. resonance - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:30 AM PT
Isn't all this talk about economist sexual preferences sort of like a discussion about Bedouin lawn-watering practices?
353. PincherMartin - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:31 AM PT
No dickweed, it was because you thought I was the one arguing that Asian-Americans clustered on campuses.
My line that there is "nothing less Asian than an Asian-American" was just overkill to make a point: That, in fact, Asian-Americans lose much of their culture very quickly in the United States.
Asian-Americans, BTW, is a concept invented in the United States to cover these many different groups from Asia. That it could cover Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Filipinos, etc is because *they* choose it too, not because I choose it for them. In other words, it is not me overgeneralizing, but you not understanding shit.
But what really hurts, is that you -- of all people -- could accuse me of rambling.
354. resonance - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:34 AM PT
You know, at one of the schools I attended you would actually commonly find those two words in graffiti? Evidently the separatist-feminists there were into vandalism. The slogans sucked, but were sometimes amusingly ambiguous, like WOMYN MUST DOMINATE.
355. PincherMartin - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:35 AM PT
Dissonance --
Here is your post: "I've never noticed a notable Asian-*American* tendency to cluster into little social enclaves on campuses, PE. That *is* what he is talking about, no?"
In the future, if you don't want me to answer your posts, then you had best leave me out of it.
356. Slackjaw - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:36 AM PT
evidently resonance hasn't yet discovered the Iron Law of the Universe: taking one's wife to Spago outweighs any smell, noise, or geekish proclivity.
And the freakishly large sex organ doesn't hurt.
357. Slackjaw - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:38 AM PT
WOMYN UNITE: TAKE BACK THE NITE
seen in men's room stall in Bloomington, IN
358. Slackjaw - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:38 AM PT
"And the freakishly large sex organ doesn't hurt."
ahem.
She claims to have gotten used to it.
359. resonance - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:45 AM PT
"No dickweed, it was because you thought I was
the one arguing that Asian-Americans clustered
on campuses. "
Don't be dumb. That really doesn't follow from what I said to PE -- the opposite, in fact, because I hardly would have phrased the following sentences the way I did. You know, 'Having said that, I think that PM's ramble on
Asian-Americans is otherwise inaccurate and
imprecise.".
It sort of indicates that the previous statement is at odds with the latter analysis. Yes? If you would just read what was said again, (shaking head) you would see that I was in fact backing *your* implicit position -- that Asian-Americans do not have any extraordinary tendency to form social enclaves on college campuses -- against PE's statement that they do. Once again, you can't be reading.
360. resonance - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:46 AM PT
" Asian-Americans, BTW, is a concept invented in
the United States to cover these many different
groups from Asia. That it could cover Japanese,
Chinese, Koreans, Filipinos, etc is because
*they* choose it too, not because I choose it for
them. In other words, it is not me
overgeneralizing, but you not understanding
shit."
You're really being illogical here. There is nothing wrong with referring to those people with East Asian heritage as Asian-American. We speak of Europeans as Europeans and Africans as Africans, despite the huge diversity within those regions. There is, however, a great problem with assuming that the group has uniform characteristics -- which is exactly what you implicitly have done, in presuming to speak for the group as a whole in those terms.
Once again, we see that you have made statements that are a) inaccurate, because they cannot adequately describe the whole of the group which you stereotypically describe, and b) imprecise, for the reasons mentioned. And, what's more, you are making a hasty generalization, because you cannot have met any reasonable percentage of the people you are attempting to describe, yet apparently you would transfer the apperceived characteristics to the whole.
361. Pseudoerasmus - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:49 AM PT
There goes Resonance again, "apperceive"!
362. resonance - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:55 AM PT
Message #335
Oh, answer away. I don't have a problem with it. It's just that you don't understand what you're talking about, and you're presuming to tell me what I am saying. At a guess I'd say that's because you're feeling defensive about my commentary upon your statements, which are demonstrably off-base because a) you lump all Asian-Americans together in them, even ones of highly different heritages and nationalities, and b) you speak about a whole based upon your experience with what can only be an infinitesimally small percentage of that whole.
However, if you'd just look at the quotation you pasted into your post, and see where I had emphasized 'American' in Asian-American by using asterisks, then you might understand what I was saying -- i.e. that you were speaking of Asian-Americans, and that the tendency mentioned by PE was more notable among Asians than among Asian-Americans. And that I wasn't attributing PE's statement to you, at all. Once more: read what I have written before you presume to tell me that I haven't read your posts.
363. resonance - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:58 AM PT
My usage of that word was exactly correct. In psychological terms, it means to incorporate data into one's reasoning based upon one's past experiences and beliefs.
364. Pseudoerasmus - Feb. 7, 1999 - 2:01 AM PT
No shit. The point is that the word was totally unnecessary.
No wonder you're such a PoMo shit.
365. resonance - Feb. 7, 1999 - 2:01 AM PT
I suppose you're just sitting there, though, in your own Psockoid way, and eyeballing the monitor and wondering why it is that a joke about the lack of sexual avenues for a practicing economist is hitting so close to home, and deciding to once again jump on one of my words and proclaim its usage to be wrong. That will no doubt make it better, oh scoreless one (laughing). We're feeling your pain.
366. resonance - Feb. 7, 1999 - 2:09 AM PT
hahaha, yes? The usage was unnecessary? (laughing)
I was unaware that Napoleon and Strunk had had an affair, much less a love-child. As I am in his presence now, I will refrain from further antagonism and merely add that you, dear PE, have been often known to use any number of sesquipedalian words with no apparent need or reason, and that I can therefore only suppose you are, in these attacks upon my statements, venting some rarefied form of anger at yourself.
367. Pseudoerasmus - Feb. 7, 1999 - 2:12 AM PT
I have never used jargon unnecessarily.
Resonance, you are Pavlovian. It's so easy to induce you to write screeds of self-justification.
368. resonance - Feb. 7, 1999 - 2:14 AM PT
And my screed is....where? The huge, long, bulk of Message #363? Everything else was derision of you.
369. MrSocko - Feb. 7, 1999 - 2:17 AM PT
Message #328
Amusing to hear you of all people talking about wits. You're the guy who actually thinks he *has* a wit, but ... you're only half right on that one.
Message #365
Amusing to hear *you* accusing the rascal PE of being Psockoid. If there's one issue PE and I have no daylight between us it's the matter of your -- cough, cough! -- written expression.
PincherMartin/JeffreySteele:
You're an idiot.
370. resonance - Feb. 7, 1999 - 2:18 AM PT
"I have never used jargon unnecessarily."
Whatever, man. You just said 'screed' where you could have said 'defense'. Unnecessary, unnecessary, unnecessary. Everyone knows 'defense', less know 'screed', you're guilty of pretention in the Court of PE. If you can honestly say that you don't make a regular practice of using relatively unknown and unnecessary words, PE, then you really ought to ponder upon the nature of denial.
371. resonance - Feb. 7, 1999 - 2:21 AM PT
Hell, there's lots and lots of words you could have used instead of 'screed', man. (shaking head)
Psocko: None of that changes the fact that PE is sitting there in psockoid cluelessness. Never mind your visualizations of proximity to PE.
372. Pseudoerasmus - Feb. 7, 1999 - 2:22 AM PT
Resonance, you're beginning to prove my point.....
373. MrSocko - Feb. 7, 1999 - 2:26 AM PT
resonance:
Describing yourself as a lucid writer is really tantamount to defamation of character.
374. resonance - Feb. 7, 1999 - 2:29 AM PT
And the same to you, except we can drop 'a' and 'writer' quite nicely.
375. MrSocko - Feb. 7, 1999 - 2:31 AM PT
And you use too many commas...
376. resonance - Feb. 7, 1999 - 2:33 AM PT
And you use too few neurons. The synaptic gap isn't supposed to be measurable in inches, Psocko. Valiant effort all the same, though.
377. MrSocko - Feb. 7, 1999 - 2:37 AM PT
Item: "And the same to you, except we can drop 'a' and 'writer' quite nicely."
Memo from copy editor Psocko: "Get rid of the comma, you insecure git!"
378. resonance - Feb. 7, 1999 - 2:42 AM PT
" "Get rid of the
comma, you insecure git!""
This is your riposte? Frighteningly idiot-savantish.
379. resonance - Feb. 7, 1999 - 2:45 AM PT
It's been fun, but I think I'm starting to violate the Geneva Convention debating charter. And we're taking up space.
380. resonance - Feb. 7, 1999 - 2:46 AM PT
(" "Get rid of the
comma, you insecure git!""
What a nerd.)
381. Judithathome - Feb. 7, 1999 - 10:28 AM PT
Geez, is this what they mean by Female Modesty?
382. darkviolet - Feb. 7, 1999 - 11:07 AM PT
Male Immodesty is more like it.
383. PincherMartin - Feb. 7, 1999 - 12:21 PM PT
Dissonance --
I left last night after posting my final message because I anticipated the avalanche of meaningless words that was coming my direction. You have not disappointed. One measure of your gift is that Socko and I, who agree on nothing else, are in complete agreement on the lucidity of your posts. I refuse to follow your instructions and reread them -- the task is too painful.
As to your main points (at least as far as I can discern them), I agree that I overgeneralize, but the subject requires it. We are discussing general tendencies and themes among Asian-Americans. If you have some interesting exceptions you want to bring up to counter my generalizations, then do so. But try to use exceptions that have some importance to what I am discussing. Don't cavil.
Another point: I also use overgeneralizations because I want to provoke. Weekends on the Fray are very slow. Sometimes, something controversial needs to be said to get the place hopping. If I write that American girls are charmless and fat, I am only being partly serious;-) If I write that there is nothing "less Asian than an Asian-American", this shouldn't be taken as literally as my figure of 45% for Asian-American intermarriage.
384. PincherMartin - Feb. 7, 1999 - 12:24 PM PT
I would think that the last point I made in the above post would be obvious, but apparently it is not.
385. Mrtoner - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:57 PM PT
For combative exchanges consisting of more than five posts-per-person, I suggest e-mail addresses be exchanged among the several participants so that the rest of us can be spared.
386. arkymalarky - Feb. 7, 1999 - 1:59 PM PT
Hahaha! You *are* new, aren't you?
Don't worry, you'll either be sailing by them and hardly noticing or reading with morbid curiosity or diving right in within a month.
387. PincherMartin - Feb. 7, 1999 - 2:04 PM PT
Mr Toner and ArkyMalarky --
The second best part of the Fray is when these near meltdowns occur.
388. Msivorytower - Feb. 7, 1999 - 2:34 PM PT
*Definitely* not a newbie.....
389. Mrtoner - Feb. 7, 1999 - 2:42 PM PT
As a newbie I notice most of the same protagonists appearing on this thread as I saw on the others. Are there only a grand total of about 20 of us wasting our lives in this particular fashion?
390. Msivorytower - Feb. 7, 1999 - 2:45 PM PT
And I hate to say this, but Message #383 is the most self serving pap I've read in a while.
Sheesh.
(Well, actually, since the last post of Calgal's to me over in race.....MsIt snickers)
391. CalGal - Feb. 7, 1999 - 3:01 PM PT
I am self-absorbed, not self-serving.
I am, however, periodically obliged to explain the obvious to the oblivious.
392. darkviolet - Feb. 7, 1999 - 3:19 PM PT
Mrtoner -
Re: Message #389
I believe there are a core of about 20 people who have been participating in the Fray from Slate's inception (early 1996?), other's who have joined later and stayed around, and larger shifting group of newcommers who stay or not, post or just lurk. The number of regular participants in this particular cyberbar has been estimated as between 80 and 200. The people who have known eachother the longest in this venue have history. Their conversations becomes intense and personal, convoluted and difficult to join, so they dominate.
393. PincherMartin - Feb. 7, 1999 - 3:44 PM PT
MsIvoryTower -- Message #390
Come on now. You know you didn't hate to say it.
MrToner --
Cut the shit! You're not a newbie.
394. MrSocko - Feb. 7, 1999 - 3:47 PM PT
Ivory:
Bingo! Your observation concerning Message #383 is spot-on. Methinks it would be unwise for anybody to invite Mr. Martin to be a toastmaster at a wedding. He'd have all the bloody guests falling asleep at their tables.
395. PincherMartin - Feb. 7, 1999 - 3:50 PM PT
Careful, Socko or I'll have to start beating you again.
396. PincherMartin - Feb. 7, 1999 - 4:11 PM PT
Socko --
One thing that you are not, Socko, is boring. You are always bold and inaccurate. One of the great joys of the Fray for me is to watch you pursue someone on a point that you know absolutely nothing about, and proceed to tell everyone willing to listen how the situation really is. The time you tried to tell everyone (particularly Pseudo) that Singapore owed its success to the Protestant work ethic instead of Confucianism was a classic. It wasn't that you made a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes. It is how authoritative you try to sound when you know nothing about what is being discussed.
You began that discussion by first telling PseudoErasmus that he knew nothing about Southeast Asia. You made a point of rubbing this in for a few posts (even after he admitted -- with the exception of some of their economics policies -- that was the case) before you then proceeded to ask him how he could explain Singapore's economic success by Confucianism, since it was well known to all that the country and its leaders were Christians ( where you got this shit from, I have no idea). After nearly thirty posts on the subject -- all of which demonstrated not Pseudo's ignorance on SE Asia, but your own -- when someone finally pointed out that you were wrong, there was nary a word from you. Certainly no apology or admission of error to PE or anyone else.
Again, I am often wrong, as is everyone else here in the Fray, but you are wrong in ways that are highly entertaining, and I certainly hope that you don't change.
397. Msivorytower - Feb. 7, 1999 - 4:12 PM PT
re Message #391
Self absorbed AND self serving.
MsIts crystal ball reveals the following Confuscian saying:
Obliviousness is in the eye of the beholder.
Pincher reMessage #393 Oops! You got me....
And something just for you.....
CHINA ABORTING UNBORN GIRLS AT RECORD RATE
Marcia Kunstel and Joseph Albright
(Austin American Statesman - Sunday 2/2/99)
.....The ultrasound scanner that reveals the sex of a fetus has led to the purging from China's population of between 500,000 and 750,000 unborn girls every year, recent statistics show.
The imagery that identified birth defects also allows sex-selective abortions in a nation that limits the number of children a family can have and where sons, who carry on the family name, have long been favored over daughters.
China has outlawed sex screening for a decade, yet it remains a widely accepted practice.
.......
Poor Pincher, better be quick about finding that Asian love of yours, these poor women are in danger of declining numbers.....
398. MrSocko - Feb. 7, 1999 - 4:31 PM PT
Martin:
If you'll recall, both PE and I were incorrect about the % of Christians in S'pore. You, in your previous incarnation as Jeffrey Steele, pointed this out, with figures to back the claim. Therefore no apology was due to anybody.
Anyway, PE doesn't know all that much about SE Asia, outside of economics. He appears to know a great deal more about East Asia, the subcontinent and Asia Minor.
399. PincherMartin - Feb. 7, 1999 - 4:32 PM PT
MsIvoryTower --
The Chinese view of women *is* barbaric (Pay attention, Dissonace: I am not saying that every single Chinese has this view on women; this is one of those useful generalizations I was talking about), but of course that makes it easier for an enlightened foreigner like myself to put the moves on them.
400. Msivorytower - Feb. 7, 1999 - 4:35 PM PT
Yes, yes, I'm sure they are quite, quite grateful you cross their paths......