202. Pseudoerasmus - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:29 AM PT
Now, Marzipranks's Malians, they sound pretty damned exotic.
203. Pseudoerasmus - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:30 AM PT
I probably couldn't bench 50.
204. PincherMartin - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:30 AM PT
"(2) She cannot be a Republican, or a Tory, or some other kind of conservative. This isn't political. Before my current radical centrist days, I have been everything from near-socialist to definitely right-wing. Yet I've always thought that there's just something terribly unattractive about a woman who could say of the poor, "you have to be cruel to be kind"."
Its true. I love Maggie Thatcher, but I could never *love* Maggie Thatcher.
205. SharonSchroeder - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:31 AM PT
Mine can bench 350 but that wasn't my point. I was thinking more about a man secure enough in himself to mesh well with a woman who can state her own mind and not kowtow to his every whim without a thought of her own. A real man is one who can be with a real woman and not feel threatened.
206. PincherMartin - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:31 AM PT
"My Sweetie can bench 350."
Your sweetie is a strong man.
207. TheDiva - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:32 AM PT
Well, PE, that's okay. You and Sweetie are sort of the yin and yang of maleness.
208. SharonSchroeder - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:32 AM PT
Being a real man has nothing to do with physique or strength. I am 5'10" and have dated short men and tall men. Size really doesn't matter ;-)
209. TheDiva - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:33 AM PT
Pincher
You mean you haven't heard me wax rhapsodic about The Legendary Sweetie? Gracious!
Sharon
Precisely.
210. TheDiva - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:33 AM PT
My last to Sharon was in response to Message #205
211. Pseudoerasmus - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:34 AM PT
Message #207
Hey, all that I lack is a Schwarneggerian inability to look bad in a suit.
212. SharonSchroeder - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:34 AM PT
Diva, thank you. I knew you would agree...
213. Pseudoerasmus - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:34 AM PT
Schwarneggerian ABILITY
214. CalGal - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:35 AM PT
Diva,
I'm not sure Pseudo knows what "bench" means.
But he's definitely yin.
215. arkymalarky - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:35 AM PT
"Some of the sensitive feelings I see now are probably because I hit too close to home with some of my comments."
I've been depressed since yesterday over how I had to settle for my 6'2", handsome, intelligent and sensitive husband and never ever had a chance with someone like Pincher. Oh, if only....
216. PincherMartin - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:35 AM PT
Sharon --
I made a point to say that it is the 'strength' of these women that is attractive to me. Yes, I am generalizing. Yes, there are many beautiful American women, but *in general* I find American women who want to be strong, mimic many of the traits of men.
217. TheDiva - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:35 AM PT
LOL @ PE!
Well, at least you and Sweetie have that in common.
218. PsychProf - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:35 AM PT
Pinched knows alot for a new guy...
219. Pseudoerasmus - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:35 AM PT
Terrible when a good barb is undone by a typo.
Message #207
All I lack is a Schwarzneggerian inability to look good in a suit.
220. TheDiva - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:36 AM PT
Come on, Cal, he knows who Arnold is....(heehee)
221. Msivorytower - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:36 AM PT
Diva reMessage #198
Well, really, that is the fundamental point, isn't it?
What provincialism to make such blanket statements.
222. TheDiva - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:37 AM PT
Aw, PE, I was *complimenting* you!
223. SharonSchroeder - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:39 AM PT
My dear Mr. Martin, I beg to differ with you. I am a strong woman and do in no way mimic anything male-like (except when I hang out with my husband's beer buddies and I can fit in with the best of them). A real woman is comfortable in any situation. I am just as comfortable at church with my mother as I am at the VFW bullshittin' with the old vets. A real woman does not need approval from a man, she merely makes her own way and a real man will eventually find his way to her.
224. Pseudoerasmus - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:39 AM PT
Message #222
Oh, well, I knew that, but the mumbo jumbo words "yin" and "yang" always arouse in me a pugnacious skepticism.
225. TheDiva - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:40 AM PT
Ms.
Absolutely. I was thinking specifically of myself and a cousin. We're about 18 months apart, were playmates as kids, went to the same high school...but couldn't be more different. She's reserved, quiet, single, no children....and an incredibly successful oncologist as well. (brag brag)
226. Msivorytower - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:40 AM PT
re Message #219
I frequently lament such an event, myself.
Although in my case, spelling is as much a culprit as uncooperative fingers....
227. CalGal - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:40 AM PT
Diva,
If he *does* know who Arnold is, it's probably because the big guy mistook him for a toothpick and Pseudo has never forgotten the indignity.
228. PincherMartin - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:41 AM PT
CalGal --
I have already stated that I am an ordinary looking guy. Certainly no match for the studs these women have married. I am sorry that my comments have hurt your feelings, but since you seem to be a woman of the world, why don't you tell me all the reasons that American men (besides myself) fall over themselves to get to you.
229. TheDiva - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:41 AM PT
PE
Mumbo jumbo from *me*? You ought to know better.
230. CalGal - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:43 AM PT
PM,
?????????
I was referring to the oblivious one.
You didn't hurt my feelings at all.
231. TheDiva - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:43 AM PT
Cal! For shame!
Pincher
The point is not that we have married such 'studs' (although that's a nice bonus), it's that we're happy with our choices, and the choices have more to do with WHO the man is than WHAT he is.
232. SharonSchroeder - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:44 AM PT
Diva, exactly!
233. PincherMartin - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:45 AM PT
Sharon --
"A real woman is comfortable in any situation. I am just as comfortable at church with my mother as I am at the VFW bullshittin'
with the old vets. A real woman does not need approval from a man, she merely makes her own way and a real man will eventually find his way to her."
Now this is quintessential Americanism. Pure romantic drivel.
234. SharonSchroeder - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:46 AM PT
Drivel, my ass.
235. TheDiva - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:47 AM PT
What? Drivel? How do you figure?!?!?!
236. PsychProf - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:47 AM PT
Methinks pinch is just pinching...no such thang as American women. Just women. Like a candy store.
237. PincherMartin - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:47 AM PT
CG --
Sorry, I thought your comments were directed to me, since Pseudo didn't seem to be throwing anything your direction
238. CalGal - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:47 AM PT
Diva,
Shame?
You sit here and flirt on a weekend and *I'm* to be ashamed?
Pah.
But Pseudo's right. Arnold looks dreadful in suits.
Besides, my ultimate sexy guy is Sam Waterston or Chris Cooper. Lean and lanky.
Although I would take Denzel as a suitable substitute.
239. CalGal - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:48 AM PT
PM,
He wasn't. I was speaking to Diva.
240. PincherMartin - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:48 AM PT
Professor --
Oh but there is a definite flavor to American women; it is just not my favorite flavor, that's all.
241. SharonSchroeder - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:49 AM PT
This from a guy who says that asian women aren't submissive and european women are all thin. Come into the real world! Ever see an Italian woman past the age of about 30? Or a Spanish woman? Or a French Peasant Woman? Stop looking at fashion magazines and start looking at real women the world over...
242. TheDiva - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:51 AM PT
Cal
I don't flirt. Ever. And a muscular man looks much, much better in a t-shirt *sigh*. As for Denzel.......*shiver*
PP
Yes! Same with men. God loves wondrous variety, and so he's given it to us. Isn't it lovely?
243. TheDiva - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:51 AM PT
Sharon
An Italian woman past 30? Right here! (heehee)
244. SharonSchroeder - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:52 AM PT
Amen, Diva!!!
245. PsychProf - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:54 AM PT
Pinch is great for the fray IMHO...
246. CalGal - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:54 AM PT
True, Sharon.
Most European women don't age well at all. Loren and Deneuve are exceptions.
I thought arky's point was well taken. Here we are discussing what men find attractive in a women. Again.
Although I couldn't help but notice that, since I'm neither an economist or a conservative (except to JadeGold), I have ended up on Pseudo's list.
Of course, it's a long, long list.
247. PincherMartin - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:56 AM PT
Sharon --
"This from a guy who says that asian women aren't submissive and european women are all thin. Come into the real world! Ever see an Italian woman past the age of about 30? Or a Spanish woman? Or a French Peasant Woman? Stop looking at fashion magazines and start
looking at real women the world over..."
Asian women aren't submissive, except for your mail-order brides from the Phillipines perhaps (but you are busily educating them, so they are saved) Some of your comments about European women are fair, and it is true that most of my experience with European women have been with those that are well-educated, so I may have a skewed experience of them.
248. SharonSchroeder - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:58 AM PT
IMO most women don't age well by Pincher's thin standards. They marry, settle down have children, cook and eat. I believe many american women actually age as well or better than most european women. Especially if we look away from the big centers of fashion like Paris, N.Y., London, etc. Look at average middle/lower-class women.
249. PincherMartin - Feb. 6, 1999 - 11:59 AM PT
Diva --
"I don't flirt. Ever."
Why the hell not! Flirting is one of the great joys in life! You remind me of another flaw about American women: they don't know how to be sexy without being slutty, so in fear of being thought a slut, they become a neutered shell in public.
250. TheDiva - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:00 PM PT
Damn, it's just getting good and I have to go.
See y'all!
251. CalGal - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:00 PM PT
Diva,
Yes, if one must have muscles, they are best encased in a white tee shirt and jeans. But muscular is far down my list of attractive attributes.
Some definition is okay, I 'spose. Will Smith, for example, might be built up a bit, but it doesn't take away from his elegance.
John Cusack. James Spader. Going back a bit, the glorious Gregory. Yum.
252. SharonSchroeder - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:01 PM PT
I am still astounded by your 'asian women aren't submissive' statement. I have never met a mail-order bride but I have known plenty of military wives. I didn't save them, I merely befriended them and they learned that in the U.S. it is not necessary to walk ten paces behind.
253. TheDiva - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:03 PM PT
Pincher
It was a joke. Ask anyone here who's known me for more than three weeks.
Cal
See, most of those guys (except for Will, who is just adorable) are just too thin for me. I like a man with some muscle. Yummy.
254. SharonSchroeder - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:04 PM PT
"You remind me of another flaw about American women: they don't know how to be sexy without being slutty, so in fear of being thought a slut, they become a neutered shell in public."
Your generalizations about american women are amazing. Do you know any american women?
255. PincherMartin - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:05 PM PT
Military wives are not representative of Asian women; I have met many military wives and most of them were bar-pickups and stripper girls.
256. TheDiva - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:05 PM PT
Y'all want sexy w/o slutty? Wait'll I scan my wedding pictures. I was DA BOMB that day. Course, now it's all gonna be downhill.
257. SharonSchroeder - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:05 PM PT
See ya later Diva!
BTW Pincher, Diva is a master at flirting.....
258. TheDiva - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:06 PM PT
heh heh
259. SharonSchroeder - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:07 PM PT
"I have met many military wives and most of them were bar-pickups and stripper girls."
You are very good at crude generalizations and stereotypes.
260. PincherMartin - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:07 PM PT
Sharon --
"Your generalizations about american women are amazing. Do you know any american women?"
Yes, quite a few, and I think my comment is spot-on. What part of the United States are you from? If it is the south, then that might explain our misunderstanding, since women from the south, I am told, can flirt and be sexy without being slutty.
261. SharonSchroeder - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:08 PM PT
BTW the bar-girls are the least submissive of the asian wives.
262. PincherMartin - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:09 PM PT
You say they are submissive and I say that military women are bargirls/strippers. We are both overgeneralizing, but whose generalization is more correct.
263. SharonSchroeder - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:10 PM PT
Yeah, I'm from the south... Southern California!
264. Mrtoner - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:10 PM PT
I knew a female American economist once. She was tall, attractive, and whipped me regularly at tennis. We weren't lovers, although certainly I'd have been willing, had that been in the cards.
(I think this is what as known as anecdotal and unscientific evidence, but I wanted to speak up for female economists.)
265. Pseudoerasmus - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:10 PM PT
I am not attracted to any woman who could be attracted to body-builders or any other men with breasts, camel humps and other deformities.
266. PincherMartin - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:10 PM PT
PE
Here, here.
267. SharonSchroeder - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:11 PM PT
MrToner, MsIT will certainly appreciate that post.
268. PincherMartin - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:12 PM PT
I am from Northern California, so that may explain our lack of communication ;-)
269. PincherMartin - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:12 PM PT
I find MsIvoryTower extremely attractive, if a bit sensitive.
270. SharonSchroeder - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:13 PM PT
My hubby is far from a bodybuilder... he just happens to be very strong. He is german-irish, 6'2" 260lbs with a rather large middle that is greatly contributed to by the fact that we love to cook and eat.
271. TheDiva - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:14 PM PT
Message #265 wins Diva's Award for Funniest Post of The Day.
272. SharonSchroeder - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:14 PM PT
Perhaps, Mr. Martin. Another case of north and south ;-)
273. PincherMartin - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:17 PM PT
I have to go. Its been fun talking to you.
274. SharonSchroeder - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:19 PM PT
I, too, must leave. Its been fun. Bye Diva... Good evening Mr. Martin... Bye Y'all!
275. TheDiva - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:20 PM PT
Yeah, me too, I've really got to get a move on.
Everyone have a nice weekend.
276. Pseudoerasmus - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:23 PM PT
Well, obviously MartinPincher is JeffreySteele.
277. arkymalarky - Feb. 6, 1999 - 12:28 PM PT
Are you sure, PE? I had him pegged for the guy I went to kindergarten with who used to eat crayons for attention. It was between that and a really bad date I had in college whose name I've thankfully forgotten.
278. 109109 - Feb. 6, 1999 - 1:06 PM PT
A few thoughts as I pop in briefly:
I can't necessarily argue with PM's broad characterization of the American woman, her weight, and her non-cosmo style, as least in regard to certain regions. Women from the Midwest have a consistent look of beefy dullard; women for the Northeast have pallor problems, and tend to the mushy as well.
As for Asian and European women, my experience is limited, but their is a strong brat streak. That said, these are women who were invariably traveling through the States, which speaks to their socioeconomic status (I ahve never traveled abroad in any meaningful fashion).
PM misses the best of the American women, and it appears his miss is one of taste: the working class American woman. I have had the pleasure of dating a nurse, legal secretaries, a bartender, a waitress, a lifeguard and a police officer. Except for the nurse, who was an incessant bitcher with chronic complaints, all the other women shared a Debra Winger-come-Ellen Barkin down-to-earth quality, replete with sharp sense of humor, no-nonsense styles,and generally free, non-judgmental temperaments. Best, they had the one thing I require in any woman: low expectations.
279. arkymalarky - Feb. 6, 1999 - 1:12 PM PT
Pincher requires that too, 109. He just isn't aware of it.
280. 109109 - Feb. 6, 1999 - 1:15 PM PT
"A man's got to know his limitations."
Clint Eastwood
Magnum Force
(btw - women from Arkansas . . . well, this is a family thread, so don't get me started)
Adios.
281. webfeet - Feb. 6, 1999 - 1:15 PM PT
yoohoo, sharon, i think you're needed here...
282. 109109 - Feb. 6, 1999 - 1:17 PM PT
(I just read the last post - by "family thread," I meant, women from Arkansas get me all hot and bothered, so, it was a cheesy, flirtatious and ingratiating attempt to be complimentary and to cover my ass, but, obviously, it was weak, as is evidenced by this post)
283. arkymalarky - Feb. 6, 1999 - 1:17 PM PT
Hey, are you a cousin? If not, you can forget it.
284. arkymalarky - Feb. 6, 1999 - 1:18 PM PT
Hahaha. Better'd quit while you're behind 109!
285. 109109 - Feb. 6, 1999 - 1:23 PM PT
And then, there is the American schoolteacher. Hair in a bun, glasses just over the nose, ruler in hand, ready to correct . . . she can bring home that bacon, fry it up in that pan, and give good Phonix.
Okay, really, I must go.
286. PincherMartin - Feb. 6, 1999 - 1:58 PM PT
"Pincher requires that too, 109. He just isn't aware of it."
ArkyMalarky, low expectations in a woman are an absolute prerequisite for me before I go out with her.
287. Msivorytower - Feb. 6, 1999 - 2:40 PM PT
MrToner, Sharon is right, I do appreciate the anecdote: perhaps I need one of those bumper stickers?
Webby!
You really must give us your thoughts on the international men of the world. Tell us, how do American men hold up against them?
Some balance is required here, and you're just the international traveler to give it.
Of course, Patsy could give some perspective here as well. I wonder where she is? Perhaps she will drop in and leave some tidbits behind on her impressions of the world class male.
288. marjoribanks - Feb. 6, 1999 - 2:50 PM PT
" I've always thought that there's just something terribly unattractive about a woman who could say of the poor, "you have to be cruel to be kind"."
Very true. There is nothing more repellent than the Huffington/Thatcher/Indira Gandhi/Benazir Bhutto attitude towards life -speaking purely in terms of potential allure. Of course, men who talk in these terms are fairly worth avoiding as well, for the most part.
289. Pseudoerasmus - Feb. 6, 1999 - 3:06 PM PT
Message #288
Well, my aversion to right-wing women has two rather selfish causes: (1) their killjoy politics are an indicator of how much they can be (women who are attractive but religious are useless to men); and (2) anyone who could tell the poor to pull themselves up by the bootstraps are likely to be mean to you.
290. Pseudoerasmus - Feb. 6, 1999 - 3:07 PM PT
errata (Message #288)
"how much they can be" =
whether they are any fun
291. CoralReef - Feb. 6, 1999 - 3:10 PM PT
"anyone who could tell the poor to pull themselves up by the bootstraps are likely to be mean to you."
Yeah, I can picture that. "Hey, PE, get a frickin' job for chrissakes or I'm outta here."
292. Pseudoerasmus - Feb. 6, 1999 - 3:10 PM PT
Let's face it, left-wing women are more fun. Would you rather sleep with a Green or a Tory, no matter how Wet the latter is?
293. arkymalarky - Feb. 6, 1999 - 3:22 PM PT
I thought it was the fact that every conservative woman I can think of looks like she was weaned on a dill pickle. Come to think of it, every conservative man I've seen looks like that too. I think the worst thing the Clinton scandal has done for conservatives, who apparently have a very high libido despite their appearance, is put enough conservatives on tv to make people think twice about whether it's really worth it to have one for a sugar daddy/mama.
294. CalGal - Feb. 6, 1999 - 3:27 PM PT
Arky,
I think all people who are passionately committed to political dogma--left or right--are boring.
Incidentally, Coral wondered early on about Pincher being JefferySteele. I believe I said that if it *is* Jeffery, he's taken on a whole new attitude. I, too, had noticed the similarities. But Jeffery was always incredibly polite.
However, he did just say he was from Northern California, which supports the notion further.
295. FreeToChoose - Feb. 6, 1999 - 3:31 PM PT
Irv
You need to rename this thread.
It should be called the mindless generalizations thread.
296. arkymalarky - Feb. 6, 1999 - 3:31 PM PT
Oh, I didn't say boring. I said weaned on a pickle. Actually, I find them very amusing, but not very sexy.
297. CoralReef - Feb. 6, 1999 - 3:32 PM PT
Well, CalGal, based on posts in the fray you and martin are in email contact, so I'd imagine you'd know one way or the other.
298. CalGal - Feb. 6, 1999 - 3:38 PM PT
CR,
No, I don't. I would say so if I did, or I wouldn't have mentioned it at all. I have rather strong feelings about multiples, as you may know.
299. CalGal - Feb. 6, 1999 - 3:42 PM PT
BTW, I should say that I'm not bothered if Pincher *is* JefferySteele; it's when someone posts under two ids at the same time that I go ick.
I just meant I wouldn't have speculated had I *known* PM was JS.
300. cllrdr - Feb. 6, 1999 - 3:43 PM PT
"anyone who could tell the poor to pull themselves up by the bootstraps are likely to be mean to you."
Masochists would find that attractive, Pseudo.