61469. allaneq - Aug. 9, 1999 - 5:09 PM PT
Existing Fraygrants;
We would like to invite you to try the new Fray, currently available in beta here. You should notice some significant changes, and we encourage you to read the FAQ available in the Fray Beta thread, if you have any questions. Over the long-term, Slate is working to provide a way let our readers provide feedback to the editors, and to build more of a sense of community among our readers. We hope that the newly redesigned Fray is a step in that direction.
You'll notice that the new Fray is structured around Slate itself, with a thread per department. After the beta is complete, you will be able to easily post feedback to an article, using a simple link at the bottom of each page. As the reader comment is added to each department's thread, we will select the best posts from each thread in the Fray and posting links to them at the bottom of the article itself, for other Slate readers to peruse and comment on. We have also made a Tech Support thread available here, and during the beta test, you can post your comments, complaints, or bug reports in our beta test thread, available here. Take a look around, test the waters, and let us know what you think.
Thanks,
Wes Miller
Program Manager
Slate Magazine
61470. CalGal - Aug. 9, 1999 - 5:32 PM PT
Incidentally, if you don't want people to know your ISP, don't post to the new forum.
61471. PincherMartin - Aug. 9, 1999 - 5:35 PM PT
CalGal --
Why is that so important, by the way.
61472. CalGal - Aug. 9, 1999 - 5:40 PM PT
If you're at work, it will post the domain, which is your host id. So if you work at IBM, it will say so. Worse if you work for a small company and like to keep your identify private.
I'm not a network expert, but hackers may be able to do something with the host id as well. I'd just as soon it not be there, anyway.
61473. AzureNW - Aug. 9, 1999 - 5:41 PM PT
Well, for example, I don't want my job to be adversely affected by an unkind comment I've made about Slade Gordon's prostate or something.
61474. AzureNW - Aug. 9, 1999 - 5:43 PM PT
Posting stuff from work like what PincherMartin was posting in the Gay Issues thread could easily get you canned if an important client saw it.
61475. PincherMartin - Aug. 9, 1999 - 5:43 PM PT
You know, the complete failure of this can't be accidental.
I wonder if one of their goals was to remove the incestuous, clubby nature of the current Fray membership and dilute it through a cumbersome new forum.
61476. AzureNW - Aug. 9, 1999 - 5:44 PM PT
Unquestionably.
61477. CalGal - Aug. 9, 1999 - 5:45 PM PT
Yep. That's what I said in the other threads. No question.
61478. PincherMartin - Aug. 9, 1999 - 5:45 PM PT
Azure --
Regarding your Message #61474
Is that a good thing or a bad thing, do you think? ;-)
61479. PincherMartin - Aug. 9, 1999 - 5:49 PM PT
I suppose nothing lasts forever. I have hung out in TT's international thread for a couple of weeks. Maybe I'll go over there permanently, even though I prefer this forum as it is now, even with all the kinks.
61480. AzureNW - Aug. 9, 1999 - 5:51 PM PT
By displaying isp addresses, the sanitization of the forum has been taken too far. More information about the poster will be displayed here than in an ordinary letter to a newspaper editor, who requires you to publish your legal name, but not your address or place of employment.
61481. CalGal - Aug. 9, 1999 - 5:51 PM PT
Well, I hang out in TT as a visitor, but this is my "bar" of choice.
I hope they decide to change, but I don't have my hopes up.
61482. judithathome - Aug. 9, 1999 - 5:51 PM PT
Well, guys...it's been real and it's been fun and if, tomorrow, it's over, I hope to run into y'all in a future life. 'nite.
61483. AzureNW - Aug. 9, 1999 - 5:51 PM PT
I'm in NDN country.
61484. PincherMartin - Aug. 9, 1999 - 5:54 PM PT
Azure --
I've seen you there. I almost said "Hi", but thought that you might want to keep your anonymity.
61485. PincherMartin - Aug. 9, 1999 - 5:55 PM PT
CG --
Message #61481
Well, I prefer to hang out here too, but if they go through with the change of forums as is, then I'll move.
Are you going to stay?
61486. PincherMartin - Aug. 9, 1999 - 5:56 PM PT
Judithathome --
Goodnite.
61487. CalGal - Aug. 9, 1999 - 6:00 PM PT
Pincher,
I have a rabid reaction to change when it is clearly worse. I can't imagine staying. My guess is the new software goes live in September, since that is when our subscriptions die.
If it goes live tomorrow, or something, I'll just flip.
I would like to see if they could give it enough time for us to archive all the posts and, hopefully, figure out if there is somewhere else to go.
61488. LadyChaos - Aug. 9, 1999 - 7:43 PM PT
Harper,
Hey gal! Perez Prado is one of the original kings of Mambo!
61489. LadyChaos - Aug. 9, 1999 - 7:48 PM PT
Dear Wes Miller,
The new format sucks. Kiss my ass and count me out.
61490. LadyChaos - Aug. 9, 1999 - 7:52 PM PT
For all its flaws, one of the great things about the old Fray format is that people are able to discuss topics freely. You never know, but it could one day happen that a Fraygrant could solve some important problem in the world, and the Fray will have been the catalyst.
The new format is just too damn confusing, and the format is clearly aimed at stifling discussion.
No thanks. I can't even imagine still being here after that format goes full-time.
61491. CalGal - Aug. 9, 1999 - 7:54 PM PT
Well, me neither. You might want to post in Tech, just because that's where they will monitor. Not that it will make any difference, I'm sure.
61492. AzureNW - Aug. 9, 1999 - 10:09 PM PT
You could create a thread in Table Talk and post the name of the thread here before Slate shuts the Fray down, so you could fairly easily continue free-form arguments with your favorite Fray combatants in
Table Talk.
61493. AzureNW - Aug. 9, 1999 - 10:26 PM PT
If you don't have an identity in the Table Talk cyberbar yet, remember to take time to choose a name you really like, not just the first name you were given.
61494. bubbaette - Aug. 10, 1999 - 4:31 AM PT
Lady C
Congratulations! When do classes start?
RE: the new Fray
There are advantages to the "tree" outline in the proposed formats fray, where you can respond to another poster's comments and other readers don't have to scroll through if they're not interested in that part of the discussion. However, the list tends to get long in these bulletin board format and you may have to scroll down for a long time to get to an ongoing discussion.
I won't post to any forum that lists my e-mail address.
61495. FreetoChoose - Aug. 10, 1999 - 4:53 AM PT
Slackjaw
I took my son out to visit your school, when we were on vacation a couple weeks ago.
You'll note I am refraining from mentioning it, but then I'm more polite than the idiots that run Slate.
61496. ScottLoar - Aug. 10, 1999 - 4:56 AM PT
And I won't post to any forum that lists my e-mail address.
61497. FreetoChoose - Aug. 10, 1999 - 5:02 AM PT
To all:
I see that Wes is asking for our input on the Beta version of the Fray. Common sense suggests they should have asked for input *before* commencing a redesign. I'm offended, and do not plan to help them, especially if they are posting my ISP.
I like to tilt at windmills, but I also recognize when a situation is hopeless. I think we should all refrain from helping them until and unless they show some evidence of understanding of software design. (E.g., they announce they are scrapping Beta, and starting over, this time starting with user input, focus groups, etc.)
If anyone wants to start a TT movement, or otherwise find a way to transplant this community, count me in.
Sad to say, if we all dropped out and went elsewhere, I'm not sure that Slate would care. I think we need to realize that *we* are the only ones that care about the Fray, and we should act accordingly.
61498. judithathome - Aug. 10, 1999 - 6:04 AM PT
FTC, Azure:
You have both made excellent posts and I agree with FTC that we are the only ones who care about the Fray as it is...I think we should decamp en masse to TT and join the others already there. They seem to have acted as canaries in the mine shaft: now we know the oxygen has run out here.
61499. arkymalarky - Aug. 10, 1999 - 6:57 AM PT
I was thinking if Slate continued to charge for subscriptions that I might take a break for a little while before resubscribing. I thought the lack of temptation to lurk and dive into conversations would be a good thing for what's going to be a very busy school year. It never occurred to me that the Fray would for all practical purposes cease to exist.
The Fray has been immeasureably beneficial to me, not just personally, but professionally. I've never seen anything like it. The diversity of people and depth of discussion is something that has endured, with ebbs and flows of course, throughout the almost two years I've been here. I count you friends, and in conversations with friends and family here, something will come up and I will mention my friend in DC or California, or Oregon. I've shared lots of good information with them that you all have shared with me.
I hope people regroup and stay in touch, and I'll pop into whatever forum most of you end up in, but there will be no recreating the Fray atmosphere, for better or for worse. I feel very privileged to have been part of it, and to have been allowed to sit in the driver's seat for a week before it was gone.
61500. jonesatlaw - Aug. 10, 1999 - 7:34 AM PT
Lady C- congratulations. Have you started working on your problem yet? You're already behind.
Just teasin'. It is a bit ironinc that the reward for all your hard work is more work. I'm glad that you've won this opportunity. Good luck.
61501. judithathome - Aug. 10, 1999 - 7:36 AM PT
Diva:
Ironic that your birthday, the age at which life begins (g), is actually the end of life as we know it on the Fray. On that bummer of a note:
Have a Super Good Birthday in spite of the betaFray!!!
61502. MsIvoryTower - Aug. 10, 1999 - 7:38 AM PT
"I feel very privileged to have been part of it, and to have been allowed to sit in the driver's seat for a week before it was gone."
And you made a simply marvelous bus driver Arky.
Regarding the staying in touch thing, we could all get web accounts and simply begin collecting a list of email addresses for people to reference for future use. In case we get kicked out of here without warning, that is.
Msivorytower@hotmail.com
61503. theDiva - Aug. 10, 1999 - 7:40 AM PT
judith
Thank you....and if you, the Ms's (both of them), bubba and all the other fabulous 40+ babes are any indication, I am in for a great time of it!
61504. arkymalarky - Aug. 10, 1999 - 7:41 AM PT
Thank you, Msit!
"Regarding the staying in touch thing, we could all get web accounts and simply begin collecting a list of email addresses for people to reference for future use."
Excellent idea.
amalarky@yahoo.com or arkym@hotmail.com
61505. theDiva - Aug. 10, 1999 - 7:44 AM PT
Arky
the Ms is correct, you were an excellent driver (even if you declined to give me my Penis Thread!)
I figger everyone knows it, but it bears repeating:
empressdiva@hotmail.com
Incidentally, I lost my entire birthday list, plus the web page I was constructing, when my hard drive fried last month. Anyone who wants to be on a birthday list should e-mail me.....and I guess it'd be a good idea to have an e-mail page, too, for anyone who wants to be included.
61506. bubbaette - Aug. 10, 1999 - 7:47 AM PT
HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU
HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU
HAPPY BIRTHDAY DEAR DIIIIIIIIIVA
HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU!
Here, I baked this black forest cake just for you. Do you like Kirsch?
61507. bubbaette - Aug. 10, 1999 - 7:48 AM PT
bubbaette@netscape.net
61508. theDiva - Aug. 10, 1999 - 7:50 AM PT
yum, yum. Almost BTS, Bubb, thanks.
61509. LadyChaos - Aug. 10, 1999 - 7:53 AM PT
I really don't like Table Talk as an option, as the disadvantages are very similar.
Oh, well... I'm with FTC. We've expressed our displeasure, now let's refrain from cooperating with the Fray's destruction.
61510. glendajean - Aug. 10, 1999 - 7:55 AM PT
glendajean12@yahoo.com
61511. bubbaette - Aug. 10, 1999 - 7:55 AM PT
TT is too disjointed. I post there sometimes, but there is lots of deadwood to wade through.
61512. phillipdavid - Aug. 10, 1999 - 8:06 AM PT
This is really SAD!
I did not wake up planning on starting a grieving process today.
phildavid@hotmail.com
61513. arkymalarky - Aug. 10, 1999 - 8:11 AM PT
Thanks Diva. I'm on to rl for now, so if y'all get yanked in my absence, I'll email one of you to get the other addresses and the details of Plan B.
Y'all have a good day, especially Diva!
61514. msgreer - Aug. 10, 1999 - 8:12 AM PT
msgreer@home.com
61515. msgreer - Aug. 10, 1999 - 8:14 AM PT
diva
happy birthday. i hope you have someone fun planned for yourself today. gracie is a sweetie. that's a nice gift she gave you.
checked your email lately?
61516. glendajean - Aug. 10, 1999 - 8:15 AM PT
Maybe in these waning days Irv could start a new thread similar to the fray election. Call it The Last Goodbye or The Party's Over. Over the years, some people got so mad that they posted "speeches" telling us why they were leaving. Sometimes the speeches were thoughtful and sometimes they were over the top. This would be our opportunity to go out with dignity, excess or ideas for another place to gather -- an opportunity to exit the stage!
61517. theDiva - Aug. 10, 1999 - 8:16 AM PT
Ms. G
Yes, I did! Thank you, sweetie!
61518. theDiva - Aug. 10, 1999 - 8:17 AM PT
Glenda
I know....he could call the thread 'Tempus Fuggit"
61519. judithathome - Aug. 10, 1999 - 8:18 AM PT
Speaking of Irv.....anyone know where he is?
Great idea, glendajean...you think we'll have time or will they Kevork us, post-haste?
61520. bubbaette - Aug. 10, 1999 - 8:20 AM PT
Hah! tempus fuggit.
maybe we could have a last thread on how we will spend our time that we used to spend fraying.
61521. theDiva - Aug. 10, 1999 - 8:27 AM PT
I'll prolly spend my time sending suggestive, innuendo-filled e-mail to Niner.
61522. bubbaette - Aug. 10, 1999 - 8:35 AM PT
you could take a course in Spanglish!
61523. theDiva - Aug. 10, 1999 - 8:36 AM PT
it'll certainly free up time for rendezvous in the Hay-Adams.
61524. pellenilsson - Aug. 10, 1999 - 8:45 AM PT
What about Fraystalgia?
An yes, about Irving. Has he been ..... disappeared?
61525. hashke - Aug. 10, 1999 - 8:51 AM PT
pelle:
Re Irv, see MsIt in Selections.
61526. hashke - Aug. 10, 1999 - 8:53 AM PT
Er, in Suggestions.
61527. 109109 - Aug. 10, 1999 - 8:54 AM PT
Diva
It's the millenium baby. Happy birthday and succumb. I feel something special today . . . . Motel 50, 12:00 pm. You bring the quarters, I'll bring the hooch.
As for the "new" Fray, ha ha, this is otherwise known as intellect-cleansing. At some point, I'm guessing, we few, we happy few, became too much of a burr under the saddle of Slate for the $1400 or so they garner. They resented our incestuousness. Because, they don't know how to love . . . like we have loved. Simultaneously, the magazine slipped into the depths of supreme shittery.
I am a lemming. I will follow this crowd. Table Talk seems the proper existing forum, but tell me where to be, and I will bring the muscatel.
slawyer@hotmail.com
61528. CalGal - Aug. 10, 1999 - 9:06 AM PT
I have a lot of email addresses, and most of you know how to get in touch with me. the_calgal@yahoo.com.
If you forget, just check out FrayFilm, which I'll keep up for a bit, and click on the little envelope at the logo at the bottom of each page.
I hope we can make an organized exit. Maybe investigate other possibilities. We always have TT as a backup.
61529. CalGal - Aug. 10, 1999 - 9:06 AM PT
I meant email addresses of other fraygrants. Although as many of you know, I have a lot of email addresses, too.
61530. theDiva - Aug. 10, 1999 - 9:42 AM PT
Niner
I got me a whole roll of shiny new quarters.....and don't forget the baby oil......
*swoon*
61531. 109109 - Aug. 10, 1999 - 9:44 AM PT
I got more thanb a roll of quarters for you, baby.
We goin' Susan B. Anthony!
61532. pellenilsson - Aug. 10, 1999 - 9:53 AM PT
So, niner, you feel like being quartered, do you?
That reminds me of a fine cite from Samuel Pepy's Diary:
"Today I saw Mr .... being hung, drawn and quartered. He looked as cheerful as any man could in that disposition."
61533. theDiva - Aug. 10, 1999 - 9:56 AM PT
Niner
oooh....all those ridged corners......oooh.....
61534. pellenilsson - Aug. 10, 1999 - 9:57 AM PT
I forgot:
pelle108@hotmail.com
We say we'll meet in other fora but do most of you use the same moniker there? If not shall we publish them here, or is that invasion?
61535. wabbit - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:02 AM PT
wwabbit@mailcity.com
I use this name pretty much everywhere. Looks like TT will be the immediate default replacement, but Suite101 would be nice. Perhaps we can set up a page at the archive with e-mail addresses and monikers?
61536. millhead - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:02 AM PT
OK, OK. Would someone spare me the exercise of going back post after post to figure out what the hell is going on here (I know I am lazy for not doing this myself)...
The Reader's Digest version would be appropriate.
61537. bubbaette - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:03 AM PT
Slate is essentially turning the Fray into a "letters to the editors" feature.
61538. 109109 - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:04 AM PT
In Table Talk, or any non-Fray related forum, I will be
Hoke Moseley.
61539. bubbaette - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:04 AM PT
I am, as always, Bubbaette or some variation thereof.
61540. millhead - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:05 AM PT
Oh, Niner and Diva. Quit it. I'm thinking about finding a private place in my office to...
I can't believe I am *even* thinking about this.
61541. theDiva - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:05 AM PT
Mill
They're phasing in an oh-so-sucky 'new' Fray, which basically will be letters to the editor. No Corner, no off-topic threads.
Pure vanilla, pure nonsense.
August 23 is our last day.
61542. millhead - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:06 AM PT
What the hell is a "letters to the editor" feature?!
61543. wabbit - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:06 AM PT
Millhead,
The Fray has been scrapped. See this.
61544. theDiva - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:07 AM PT
IOW, they just want posts specific to Slate Articles.
61545. MsIvoryTower - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:07 AM PT
Mil
The Fray is being upgraded to a new format that is less than community building (sustaining). Rather than lose touch with those we are interested in remaining in contact with, I suggested we all get web email accounts and start a public email list.
So far we have the following individuals:
Msivorytower@hotmail.com
arkm@hotmail.com or amalarky@yahoo.com
empressdiva@hotmail.com
bubbaette@netscape.com
glendajean12@yahoo.com
phildavid@hotmail.com
msgreer@home.com
slawyer@hotmail.com
the_calgal@yahoo.com
pelle108@hotmail.com
wwabbit@mailcity.com
61546. millhead - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:07 AM PT
And what are they trying to accomplish with this move?
61547. wabbit - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:07 AM PT
Oh, and Diva...HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!
61548. 109109 - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:08 AM PT
"IOW, they just want posts specific to Slate Articles."
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ouch. Stop. It hurts. You're killing me.
61549. millhead - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:08 AM PT
BTW,
millhead80@hotmail.com
Cheers
61550. theDiva - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:10 AM PT
wabbit
thanks. If only I could stop crying, I feel so foolish.
61551. judithathome - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:15 AM PT
Hey, Guys...
I only have one address and I don't post it because it is my business address but I'll try to get another one. I will be using my Judith guise, maybe just plain Judith without the athome part.
I have tried to get Yahoo but I can't connect to it from my provider, which uses Lycos.
61552. millhead - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:17 AM PT
Wabbit,
Thanks. Obviously, *change* strikes an emotional cord with many people.
FWIW, the format is not user friendly at all. I probably do not have the right to be harsh because I am not in here as much as the majority of you. But, I would like to continue the friendships I have made as a result of the Fray. Please forward me any information regarding a move to TT or somewhere else. I want to be included.
Thanks,
Millhead
61553. ChristinO - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:18 AM PT
Here, Sis, take my hankie. Have some chocolate. How dare they announce this on your birthday????? The dirty RATS!! Just to spite them I think you should have a fantastic Birthday anyway.
Bring on the dancing boys!
Break out the booze!
Get those buffet tables set up we're gonna' MAMBO!!!!!
MAMBOMAMBOMAMBO
MAMBOMAMBOMAMBO
MAMBOMAMBOMAMBO
MAMBOMAMBOMAMBO
61554. millhead - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:19 AM PT
Diva,
Happy Birthday and, please, don't cry. You have no idea what that does to me (or Niner, I'm sure).
61555. ChristinO - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:20 AM PT
Add me to the list:
Cocuddehy@hotmail.com
We could set up a "Fugitives from the Fray" thread in TT or something for the meanwhile.
61556. glendajean - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:21 AM PT
Judith,
Type in "yahoo.com" for location (if you're using Netscape). That will get you to yahoo. Then follow their e-mail set up. Instead of your real name, put in Judithathome or whatever in the name fields.
Or try hotmail.com. It's not as elegant as yahoo, and it is a Microsoft product, but it's also free.
61557. theDiva - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:24 AM PT
when people tell me not to cry, that just makes it worse.
But I'll try to mambo.
61558. bubbaette - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:26 AM PT
Don't cry for me Ike and Tina
This Fray was only just a portal....
61559. judithathome - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:26 AM PT
Thanks, glendajean. We're using Internet Explorer and I think my husband tried the Yahoo site but was unable to access it.
I'm off for a manicure/pedicure but after my nails dry (first things first!) I'll attempt it.
Hope y'all are still here when I get back.
61560. theDiva - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:27 AM PT
bubb
hahahaha! Thanks, I needed that.
61561. ChristinO - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:29 AM PT
Let's get those dancing boys up on the buffet tables!
Hee-YAH!!!!
MAMBOMAMBOMAMBO
MAMBOMAMBOMAMBO
61562. pellenilsson - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:30 AM PT
I'm thinking about ArcticLoon as my new moniker. It is immensely funny, yet immensely subtle. If cmboyce were around he could tell you all about it. Or should I add another layer of subtility by using GaviaArctica?
61563. bubbaette - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:30 AM PT
I just registered in Suite 101 -- my name remains the same.
61564. 109109 - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:37 AM PT
What is this Suite 101?
61565. cllrdr - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:38 AM PT
Interested parties can now reach me at cllrdr@earthlink.net
And now it's "back, back *bak* to the world of the Mambo!"
61566. theDiva - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:38 AM PT
Niner
yet another place for us to.....um......
61567. CalGal - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:39 AM PT
Diva,
Lord, I'm sorry. I forgot. Happy Day. Even if it doesn't feel like one right now.
61568. theDiva - Aug. 10, 1999 - 10:40 AM PT
Thanks, Cal.
You'd think they could have *timed* this a little better. Sheesh.