201. Jenerator - Oct. 11, 1998 - 5:13 PM PDT
WHY on earth would anybody want a gerbil up their butt????!!!!!!
202. cllrdr - Oct. 11, 1998 - 5:22 PM PDT
Jen -- I have absolutely no idea. And in light of the fact that this 1) never took place with Gere, 2)has never taken place with anyone else, and 3) is physically impossible -- we'll never know.
203. arkymalarky - Oct. 11, 1998 - 5:39 PM PDT
I *just* got your book, Cllrdr! I usually have to catch someone going to Little Rock to pick things up for me, and so I just got it this afternoon. I've started on the Prologue and it's already very readable and interesting. I'm looking forward to getting caught up.
204. Jenerator - Oct. 11, 1998 - 5:41 PM PDT
How is it physically impossible? I've heard of stranger and bigger things inserted in rectum's! Also, how do you know it's never taken place with anyone?? Virtually everyone has heard of it, and everyone has a friend who works in a hospital and has the stories, etc. etc. In fact, my friend Ron S., who is a respiratory specialist, talks about all kinds of weird things he has seen at the hospital he works at. (snakes, mayonaise bottles, gerbils)
Did Gere sue anybody for defamation of character?? I remember when Sam Kinnison announced on the MTV music awards that Gere could not attend because he was having a gerbil removed from his butt.
205. cllrdr - Oct. 11, 1998 - 5:46 PM PDT
Virtually everyone has heard of flying saucers. Does that make them real? The gerbil story is a myth. Read my book and find out why.
206. cllrdr - Oct. 11, 1998 - 6:03 PM PDT
I know many of you have just gotten your copies and have barely gotten started, but I'd like to move things along a bit. While I'll be happy to continue to take questions about the first four chapters after Tuesday, I'd like by then to move on to Chapter Five "Closet Privileges." Fo that's where Liberace meets Oscar Wilde. And more recently, Bill Clinton.
207. VicKuligin - Oct. 11, 1998 - 6:53 PM PDT
"Jen -- I have absolutely no idea. And in light of the fact that this 1) never took place with Gere, 2)has never taken place with anyone else, and 3) is physically impossible -- we'll never know."
Actually, here is what I have heard about such things.
It must be a good 20 years ago. There was a sportscaster in Philly, but I can't remember his name. Anyway, the rumor was that he had to go to the hospital because of a gerbil up his butt.
Supposedly, he injected some drug into the gerbil, then put it up his butt, and as the gerbil contorts because of the drug, the guy gets some sort of thrill.
I doubt very highly that ALL of these stories are simply myths. I have heard far more stranger things.
My guess is that this is indeed something some wierdos do, regardless of what cllrdr thinks.
208. cllrdr - Oct. 11, 1998 - 7:01 PM PDT
If you would bother to read my book, you would know that it deals with this story -- and others. They are all myths. But you have no intention of reading my book. So what are you doing in this thread?
209. Jenerator - Oct. 11, 1998 - 7:03 PM PDT
We're helping establish this thread as HOT for you.
210. cllrdr - Oct. 11, 1998 - 7:45 PM PDT
Don't do me any "favors" Jen.
211. FrayVader - Oct. 11, 1998 - 7:46 PM PDT
The Truth About Gerbils
212. glendajean - Oct. 11, 1998 - 7:48 PM PDT
cllrdr -- the gerbil in the butt myth obviously appeals to the fantasies of some people. Those odd gay people, they put gerbils up their butt.
A rational person might ask themselves, "why would somebody put a gerbil up someone else's butt. What is the physical liklihood of it happening? (In other words, how would you do it?). Finally, the question, who puts gerbils up their butt?
I am sure that if you would do a poll, you would be hard-pressed to find people who do that. Ten people? Are there ten people on the planet of 4 billion give or take who put gerbils up there butt? Who are they? Where do they live? Of course, there aren't any. But why let the truth get in the way of a good myth.
If one wanted to stimulate the male prostate, straight or gay, there are all kinds of ways of doing that. Running out to the pet store and getting a gerbil isn't one of them.
213. cllrdr - Oct. 11, 1998 - 7:58 PM PDT
Thanks FrayVader and glendajean. As those who've read my book know, I use a different source for gerbil-debunking. But no matter who says what, don't think for a moment that Vic and Jen will give up on this -- or any other notion to support their propaganda campaigns.
214. Jenerator - Oct. 11, 1998 - 8:03 PM PDT
Cllrdr,
Nonsense.
FYI, I have heard of these things occurring with heterosexual women too! (the snake)
My original question to you was WHY would anyone want to insert a gerbil up ther butt?
Honestly, I am more comfortable in believing it does NOT happen. It is disgusting, and I question the sanity of people who do such things. I would like to think that such things do NOT happen.
215. cllrdr - Oct. 11, 1998 - 8:10 PM PDT
Well they don't happen. So you have no reason to feel disgust. As a gay man who has had to put up with this noxious libel for decade have, on the other hand, plenty of reason to feel disgust. Can you guess the source of my disgust?
216. cartman69 - Oct. 11, 1998 - 9:10 PM PDT
This whole gerbil thing reminds me of a section in Howard Stern's "Private Parts" book, pp. 357-358, in which Stern enumerates a list of items supposedly harvested from the butts of gay men. Stern attributes his "sources" thusly:
"Some doctor actually chronicled these items and detailed the information for a medical journal, so if any politically incorrect scumbag thinks I'm making this stuff up, they're full of shit."
Here's a few of the items he mentions:
A bottle of Mrs. Butterworth's syrup.
An ax handle.
A lightbulb.
A screwdriver.
An onion.
A flashlight.
A toolbox weighing 22 ounces.
Naturally, Stern doesn't say which "medical journal" this appears in, or which issue, or the name of the "doctor". Obviously, "Vinnie from Teaneck" or some other listener sent it in, or Stern just made it up himself.
As to why some people believe this stuff, who knows? A lot of straight people (including myself) have not known many gay people (as far as they know). So we're just ignorant about gays in general. And a good portion of media attention wrt gays focuses on the most flamboyant & outrageous characters in the gay community, some of which don't have any counterpart in the "straight world" that we can relate to.
BTW, Cellar, thanks for the invite to this thread the other day. I haven't received my copy from Amazon yet, but it's on its way, so I've just been lurking thus far. Judging from the posts here, it promises to be most interesting. I will catch up and join the fun upon arrival of the book.
217. cllrdr - Oct. 11, 1998 - 9:14 PM PDT
Please do, cartman. You're read-out of some people's atitudes is correct. Actually Michael Bronski takes up this point on a larger scale in his "The Pleasure Principle" (St. Martin's, 1998) His thesis is that gays have "become" in the public mind the virtual embodiment of sexual desire.
218. cartman69 - Oct. 11, 1998 - 9:24 PM PDT
Cellar:
Well, I think it may be closer to the embodiment of promiscuity, which of course is taboo in this day and age. Again, I think the media are partially responsible for this perception, even the SF newspapers (which I read, even though I'm up in Chico). Apparently lurid stories about bar patrons with multiple partners is more indicative of the gay community than stories about monogamous gay couples, to their way of thinking.
Me, I really don't care what other people do in their sex life, as long as everyone's old enough and no one gets hurt. And I've read in some of your posts that you don't really buy the "I don't care" rationale. But I really don't. As Hank Kingsley said, "Sex is not dirty. It's nothing to be ashamed of. It's a loving, caring act between two or more consenting adults."(g)
219. BobaFett - Oct. 11, 1998 - 9:25 PM PDT
Cartman:
You completely jinxed my poor inept Giants, you bastard.
220. cllrdr - Oct. 11, 1998 - 9:36 PM PDT
Actually the gay/lesbian community, such as it is ("community" is a better way of stating it) is split over sex in a million ways. Supposedly you have "on the one hand" the "sex radicals" like Bronski and the people behind the organization "Sex Panic." On the "other hand" you supposedly have Michelangelo Signorile, Gabriel Roello, and Larry Kramer -- all wagging their fingers at that portion of he gay "community" (size varies in proportion to the paranoia involved) still caught up in "wild promiscuous sex." Signorile is especially exercised about the "circuit party" phenomenon. But given that you have to be very young, very, wealthy, in superb physical condition, and devoted to the ingestion of drugs while dancing into the wee small and have lots of "wild promiscuous sex," 24/7, you're talking about a subset within a subset within a subset within a subculture. I don't see how this translates into a "dangerous trend." In fact, I'm exhausted just THINKING about such people. Meanwhile, back in the real world, gays and lesbians continue to live all kinds of lives in which sexual activity figures in one way or another -- but rarely, if ever, to the ludicrous degree of "circuit party" ill-fame.
221. cartman69 - Oct. 11, 1998 - 9:37 PM PDT
Boba:
LMAO! Serves 'em right. I picked up that dork Kanell for my fantasy football team, and he cost me two games! Looks like they need a new RB too, since Barber's lost a step (or ten).
Remember, you're in the NFC East, so 8-8 is actually possible if you can handle the mighty Eagles & 'Skins.
222. cartman69 - Oct. 11, 1998 - 9:44 PM PDT
Cellar:
Message #220 I agree with you 100%. But it's the Sex Panic guys and the hustler/party people that get the coverage, which skews the perception of some straight people who are ignorant of gay people.
Really, I find it to be rather like how many whites perceive blacks. The only reference points they have wrt black people is gangsta rap & ebonics, so when they actually encounter blacks, they already have a preconceived notion about them.
223. Jenerator - Oct. 11, 1998 - 9:44 PM PDT
Cllrdr,
But you yourself have admitted numerous times that you have slept with "hundreds" of men, and you look back on those times with a smile.
224. cllrdr - Oct. 11, 1998 - 9:45 PM PDT
Your point?
225. Jenerator - Oct. 11, 1998 - 9:54 PM PDT
Is your promiscuous past what you would call a subset of a subset of a subset of the homosexual community culture?
Just trying to figure out what side of the "sex panic" you are on.
226. cllrdr - Oct. 11, 1998 - 10:02 PM PDT
Read my book and find out.
227. Super80 - Oct. 12, 1998 - 6:59 AM PDT
cllrdr-
This is not the spot to discuss this but I thought I could get your attention here. I read in the NY Times (and heard on the radio) that the HRC is considering giving an endorsement to Al D'Amato! NFW in my book. I will not give them another dollar if they endorse senator pothole.
Do you know anyone in a leadership position in the HRC? Is there some kind of "deal" being brokered that Al will do something for the gay community? I am missing something here. Why in the world would the HRC throw its support to a member of a political party that does not want gay people in that party?
228. cllrdr - Oct. 12, 1998 - 8:10 AM PDT
Don't get me started, Super80. Welcome to the world of Realpolitick, where everyone's supposed to put their "ideals" to one side and be "pragmatic." I read Charlie Kaiser's piece in this week's "New York" magazine about this whole deal. However "nice" and "supportive" D'Amato may be, he's still a Republican. And at this juncture in American political history a vote for a Republican... a vote for a Republican.
Of course there are those types for whom voting Republican is seen as a way of making "our voice heard." (Yeah,right.) And then there are those for whom coming out as a Republican is far more important than...coming out. But the chickens are coming home to roost. Consider Andrew Sullivan in yesterday's "New York Times" magazine. Still even he can't quite come to grips with it - claiming the Fundies obsession with Abortion is more central. I beg to differ. Until it becomes the party of Abraham Lincoln once again, gays and lesbians voting Republican is simply the latest twist on internalized self-hatred.
229. Super80 - Oct. 12, 1998 - 9:02 AM PDT
cllrdr-
I don't have a problem with gay Republicans - I just don't get it. It's like a sick twist on the old Groucho Marx joke "I wouldn't want to be a member of a club (party) that would (not) have me as its member."
Is there some kind of quid quo pro that has not been reported? Even if there is, what could he (D'Amato) provide the gay community, given the influence of social conservatives of the Republican party? If he is reaching for support from the gay community, at the risk of losing support from the conservative right, one can only conclude that the race is closer than is being reported. A more compelling reason to support Shumer, or better yet, remain non-partisan.
I am going to call the HRC today and let them know where I stand.
230. cllrdr - Oct. 12, 1998 - 9:41 AM PDT
Please do, Super80. But I gave up on HRC some time ago. I think a lot of this has to do with gays and lesbians being needlessly overjoyed that someone in the public sphere likes them -- or says they do. It's the "Inner Sally Field" thing do't you know. The fact is that even if he were a raving homophobe (and he isn't) D'Amato couldn't behave as such publically and hope to hold the seat he currently occupies.
But let's get back to Hollywood -- where Anne Heche has landed a part in yet another movie.
231. Super80 - Oct. 12, 1998 - 9:45 AM PDT
Ellen has been the best thing that ever happened to Anne Heche. What is the movie?
232. cllrdr - Oct. 12, 1998 - 9:58 AM PDT
It's called "The Third Miracle." Adapted from a novel by Richard Vetere, it centers on a priest sent by the Vatican to verify the miracles claimed to have been perpetrated by a woman nominated for sainthood. Th priest, who is undergoing a crisis of faith, re-discovers his calling in the process. Heche, of course, plays the living saint. Ed Harris will play the priest. Agnieszka Holland is directing.
Will Jen approve? Well, maybe since it's about Catholics she won't care.
233. Super80 - Oct. 12, 1998 - 10:40 AM PDT
I don't know if I think Anne Heche is a good actress - I've only seen her in "Six Days Seven Nights." I thought she was ok, but ultimately was disappointed. The build up had been that she and Harrison Ford were a contemporary Hepburn/Tracy team. I don't think so. Harrison Ford is looking a little long in the tooth - he should keep his shirt on!
234. cllrdr - Oct. 12, 1998 - 10:47 AM PDT
Well "Six Days, Seven Nights" was no setting to gauge anyone's acting ability. Heche comes through much more interestingly in "Wag the Dog," where she more than holds her own against Hoffman and DeNiro. See also "Return to Paradise."
235. trouserPilot - Oct. 12, 1998 - 11:53 AM PDT
Hahahaha, I'm in the middle of Sullivan's piece as we speak. Boy, is he in denial. Yeah, puritanism just recently sprang up in the middle of the "conversative" movement.... Where has he been? What a loser.
236. Super80 - Oct. 12, 1998 - 12:41 PM PDT
Hey cllrdr,
I was just notified by Amazon.com that *my* copy of *your* book has been shipped!! With a complementary upgrade to Priority Mail so I should receive it by Wednesday.
tP,
Do you remeber the last time Andrew Sullivan had a cover of the Times magazine? He published his article on Protease Inhibitors and everyone thought AIDS was over - but friends continue to die. Maybe this aritcle will have a similar effect on conservatism.
237. cllrdr - Oct. 12, 1998 - 12:57 PM PDT
Who knows, Super80. But Unmerry Andrew is so solopsistic. Have you seen his new book? If it happens to him, and his circle of freinds, then it's real. Not that he's alone in this. Signorile seems to think he has the pulse of all gay America too. But I don't even know people who go to circuit parties, much less attend them myself. And Crystal Meth would wreck havoc with my blood pressure medication.
Meanwhile, and old "Advocate" buddy of mine -- Masha Gessen -- is in "The Breakfast Table." At last a lesbian in cyberspace who isn't the dreaded Camille!
238. trouserPilot - Oct. 12, 1998 - 2:10 PM PDT
I gave up circuit parties for The Fray.
239. Super80 - Oct. 12, 1998 - 2:23 PM PDT
I had a *terrible* time (have you ever noticed how nellie my emphasis is?) making through Signorile's first book. What was it "Growing up Gay(?)" I can't remeber the title, but it seemed to take forever. He has grown on me over time, though.
I do agree with some of his opinions on the cicuit parties - why expend polical capital on a hollow activity, why encourage an atmosphere (driking ad illicit drugs) that inceases unsafe sex. I don't pretend to speak for the community - Lord knows I am not a "typical" homo. But I *do* see some of this a fantasy to return to things as pre-AIDS.
Also, I agree with Signorile's thesis of Buff Body = Internalized Homophobia.
240. elliot803 - Oct. 12, 1998 - 2:28 PM PDT
I think it's more often a case of buff body = insecurity or buff body = airhead. Not always, though.
241. elliot803 - Oct. 12, 1998 - 2:41 PM PDT
I advocate "ex-gay" therapy for gay people who vote Republican.
242. trouserPilot - Oct. 12, 1998 - 4:01 PM PDT
re #240
What's your excuse, elliot?
243. elliot803 - Oct. 12, 1998 - 4:07 PM PDT
TP:
You mean what's my excuse for my gravity-stricken, love-handled torso? Complete self-assurance and utter brilliance.
244. trouserPilot - Oct. 12, 1998 - 4:11 PM PDT
elliot, shhh! I was alluding to your preternatural buffosity.
245. Judithathome - Oct. 12, 1998 - 4:14 PM PDT
cllrdr: Just received your book from my new fave, Amazon.com. I plan to read it during my 3 wks in Hawaii, leaving soon...well, pretty soon, first week in Nov. Hope the discussion is still going on when I return.
246. elliot803 - Oct. 12, 1998 - 4:16 PM PDT
Okay, um....the Thighmaster.
247. cllrdr - Oct. 12, 1998 - 4:19 PM PDT
Stay as sweet as you are elliot. You too, Trouser.
Super -- Michelangelo was taught by Catholic brothers -- not nuns. 'Nuff said.
I think the problem both he and Sullivan suffer from might be called HFIC syndrome. That stands for (drumroll please)Head Faggot In Charge. They're always sniffing the horizon for the zeitgeist; making reckless claims for the first "trend" that comes their way. Meanwhile far more pressing issues, like the Shepherd murder, pass below their radar screens.
Before he left this mortal coil, Richard Rouilard had grand plans for "The Advocate." He wanted it to be a major news source, with correspondents in every city and town -- and across the pond as well. But that wasn't the "vision" of those who came in his wake. They wanted plush expensive ads, from plush expensive companies. They turned down their noses at the classified section - which had kept the rag going for decades. They wanted to be "taken seriously." And what does that mean in market terms? Major cities only. [continued]
248. cllrdr - Oct. 12, 1998 - 4:22 PM PDT
Hey I thought the Thighmaster was MY nickname.
Have a great time Judith. I'll try to keep this thing going.
249. cllrdr - Oct. 12, 1998 - 4:27 PM PDT
To continue from #247 -- As the century turns (perfect title for a gay/lesbian soap opera) same-sex life is once again seen as a major city phenom; with our country cousins taking their life in their hands should they "choose" to be "openly gay." But this is a vast oversimplification -- the specifics of the Shepherd case to one side. In fact the thing I fear will be lost by the Media with Shepherd is a full picture of his world: gay and straight, "accepting" and murderous. Work needs to be done on this
Ahem (Cellar clears his throat in preparation for what has become his Tarzan yell) Come here Kinsley -- I want to chastise you!
250. Super80 - Oct. 13, 1998 - 6:36 AM PDT
cllrdr-
Don't forget those of us in the suburbs. Super80 and Binky own a tract house and are the only *single* men in the neighborhood. The town at times seems to be the "Land o' Lesbians" - espeially Friday Nights at the Super Stop and Shop. But I have not been subject to any hate (that I know of) in my neighborhood. At least in my community, I think as long as you do nothing to negatively impact property values, most people don't care. If people are gossiping, I don't care - they must be pathetic if they have nothng better to talk about than my boring life.
The only strange thing that has happened was I was propositioned by one of my 13 year old neighbors. I couldn't tell if he was serious, or it was a dare of his friends. Nonetheless, I steer clear of the boy (who is now 15 and in high school).
When we moved in I was afraid we would be subject to vandalism. In 6 years this has not been true. I do consider where we life a sort of outreach. I know many of our neighbors would know nothing of gay people if we did not live where we do. I think this helps to break down stereotypes.
251. cllrdr - Oct. 13, 1998 - 7:30 AM PDT
No matter where you are you can't be too careful, Super80. The Matthew Shepherd murder is bringing this fact to light as never before. Twenty years ago this murder wouldn't have even made the local papers.
Meanwhile, let us turn to the far less endangered lives of the Richa and famous as those of you who've been reading along, move on to Chapter Five "Closet Privileges." It's a direct outgrowth of Chapter Four.
It cannot be stressd strongly enough how safe gays and lesbians in Hollywood have always been. Though many have flirted with reckless behavior (especially regarding alcohol and drugs)garden variety gay-bashing is rare. Rather than physical harm, iconographic injury is that which is most feared.
252. elliot803 - Oct. 13, 1998 - 9:31 AM PDT
Super80:
Wait until you show up at the local school board meeting and express support for a curriculum that includes information about homosexuality, or one that presents a positive image of gay people. Wait until the issue of gay foster parents, or recognition by your city of gay domestic partnerships, comes up. Then you'll find how deep the "most people don't care" sentiment runs. They don't care as long as you don't assert your rights. They don't care as long as you're content to remain invisible.
253. cllrdr - Oct. 13, 1998 - 10:12 AM PDT
And so, to return the discussion to *visibility* consider Liberace.
Is it possible to be "in the closet" and "openly gay" at the same time? Apparently. Cause that's what Liberace did. Flaunted every mannerism ever associated with extreme effeminate gayness (and invented a few all his own)while keeping his closet door shut at the same time. How? The power of the lawsuit. The power of public denial. How Clintonian it all seems, as detailed at the beginning of Chapter Five. Yet Liberace was function as his *own* Ken Starr. Amazing.
Comments?
254. elliot803 - Oct. 13, 1998 - 10:18 AM PDT
Cellar:
Have you ever been to the Liberace Musuem in Las Vegas (conveniently located in the same strip mall as a gay bar)? The furs, the gowns, the sequins, the sheer overwhelming queeniness of the man. It's fascinating how he was somehow acceptable to and even adored by Americans who would react with disgust to any overt expression of gayness. Deep, deep, DEEP denial.
255. cllrdr - Oct. 13, 1998 - 10:38 AM PDT
It's really a mystery to me Elliot. As you'll note in my book John Rechy has a theory as to Liberace's appeal to women -- especially middle-aged, middle-class women who likely as not had gay children. But I'm just another gay guy when it comes to this. If any Liberace has any straight fans in the Fray, I'd love to hear from you.
256. Super80 - Oct. 13, 1998 - 12:29 PM PDT
Elliot,
You said "They don't care as long as you're content to remain invisible."
We are *quite* visible (I have FAG tatooed on my forehead). And my neighbors treat me and my partner as they treat others in the neighborhood - I do not fear the rejection of my community. I struggle with posting this as it is back off topic, but the above comment did not sit with me well.
I still think the most important thing I do as a man that happens to be gay, is to lead an open, honest, dignified life. I demonstrate the value of my life by letting those around me see who I am. I don't live in a gay ghetto. 99.99% of my co-workers are straight (some of whom are Christian Fundementalists). My friends are gay and straight. I expose many people in a direct manner to what a gay person is and help break down stereotypes that are reinforced by the media.
257. elliot803 - Oct. 13, 1998 - 2:07 PM PDT
Super80:
Well, I was talking about the community where you live in general rather than just your immediate neighbors. But how sure are you of the extent to which those neighbors really accept you and your partner? There are a lot of straight people who say they have gay friends, who are polite and neighborly to gay people who live around them, who will invite them to dinner and in general extend to them the ordinary social graces and pleasantries, but who will draw the line at something like marriage or adopting children. I agree with you that the most important thing is to lead an honest and open and dignified life as a gay person, and for me that means accepting nothing less than full equality.
258. 109109 - Oct. 13, 1998 - 3:16 PM PDT
cllrdr
I am moving thru the book and made a note. Do you know James Ellroy and have you read "American Tabloid"? In the vein of the Hollywood hush sheets, you should read that book. He does a wonderful description of a mix: brutal criminal types and closeted homosexuals. Bribery, treachery, the whole nine yards.
The book runs out of gas 3/4 thru, but it is worth the time.
259. JadeGold - Oct. 13, 1998 - 3:40 PM PDT
"Where's the Outrage?"
Indeed, all of Ellroy's books seem to run out of gas about 3/4 of the way through. This is a pity because _LA Confidential_ and _White Jazz_ were so promising. Even his memoir, _My Dark Places_.
I keep waiting for Ellroy to one day go the distance.
260. 109109 - Oct. 13, 1998 - 3:56 PM PDT
Jade
My Lord, and it is such a disappointment, because they take off with such promise.
261. cllrdr - Oct. 13, 1998 - 4:32 PM PDT
Indeed I do know Ellroy. You'll find him in the "It's a Scandal!" chapter, where he tells me tales of Freddie Otash. He is indeed quite a character. I knew his wife Helen, when she lived in L.A. and worked as a film critic for the "L.A. Reader." Ellroy's fiction is very much a work-in-progress. I think he's made a real breakthrough as a writer with his non-fiction work "My Dark Places." There he confronts his demons more directly. And because of that, I believe his best work is yet to come.
262. MorganMolly - Oct. 13, 1998 - 5:17 PM PDT
Wow! What a hoot!
I just got Open Secret, and here you guys are. That's what I get for letting my trial subscription run out.
Molly
263. trouserPilot - Oct. 13, 1998 - 5:24 PM PDT
Molly!
Welcome back! Stick around!
264. glendajean - Oct. 13, 1998 - 5:25 PM PDT
Hey, Molly,welcome back.
FYI to all interested: there will be a candle light vigil at the Nation's Capitol tomorrow, Wednesday, 10/14, at 7:00 pm (on the West Steps, facing the National Mall). The purpose of the vigil is to mourn Matthew Shepard's death and those gay, lesbian and transgendered people before him who have suffered similar acts of violence, and to advocate passage of the Federal Hate Crimes Act.
Congressmen, Ellen DeGeneres and Anne Heche, Betty DeGeneres and community leaders will speak at the event.
265. cllrdr - Oct. 13, 1998 - 5:26 PM PDT
Hey Molly, come on back!
266. MorganMolly - Oct. 13, 1998 - 5:28 PM PDT
Hi there, trouserpilot!
Glendajean, I wish I could be there. And not just because Anne Heche is going.
What happened to the orientation thread? I read in the Suggestions thread that "Religion" is the gay thread now (?)
267. bubbaette - Oct. 13, 1998 - 5:29 PM PDT
excuse me, but I just popped in off topic. Glendajean, you know alot about roses don't you? Christi has a potted rose that her daughter gave her and was looking for some care and feeding, maybe in home & garden if you get the chance.
268. glendajean - Oct. 13, 1998 - 5:32 PM PDT
Molly, religion is the people who hate people thread.
Orientation was dropped with the promise for shorter lived threads that will often be gay-related -- like this one.
This one has been nice because it gives everybody a chance to celebrate cllrdr and his new book.
269. cllrdr - Oct. 13, 1998 - 5:35 PM PDT
I believe they're going to bring the "Gay" thread back. I certainly hope so for, despite my meglomanical appearance, I'm only one man!
"Religion" has become the defacto "Gay" thread only because Jenerator and Vic are obsessed with black men with enormous uncircumcised penises.
270. MorganMolly - Oct. 13, 1998 - 5:36 PM PDT
Well, that's cool, I guess.
Man, Arianna Huffington is one of the talking heads on MSNBC right now, and she is one nasty mother.
Sorry, I know that's off topic, but I just had to ....
271. MorganMolly - Oct. 13, 1998 - 5:37 PM PDT
clldr, aren't we all? I mean, truly?
272. trouserPilot - Oct. 13, 1998 - 5:38 PM PDT
(I take it someone linked to a Mappelthorpe photo? Drat, I missed it!)
273. cllrdr - Oct. 13, 1998 - 5:42 PM PDT
No link needed, Trouser. Vic's got Mapplethorpe on the brain 24/7.
As for Arianna you'd be testy too if your husband just dumped you for a younger man. Strike that -- younger series of men.
274. MorganMolly - Oct. 13, 1998 - 5:46 PM PDT
I suppose. I'd be even testier if my wife did!
Shit, guys, I'm outta here for now. My connection is way slow. See you tomorrow, probably.
Cllrdr, congrats. I'm really enjoying the book so far, and I'm very psyched for you. Lots of pervs down here in the islands are reading it!
275. cllrdr - Oct. 13, 1998 - 5:52 PM PDT
Thanks Molly. Which islands? The Caymans?
276. tmachine - Oct. 14, 1998 - 7:37 AM PDT
clldr--got the book! Am enjoying it. But I was upset to notice some typos, dropped words, etc. Would it be remotely useful to mark them up as I go along so you can get 'em fixed for the second printing?
277. cllrdr - Oct. 14, 1998 - 7:45 AM PDT
I noticed several too, tmachine. Getting books ready for print is a nightmare. I never dreamed that Morrow would be able to turn this around as quickly as they did. One misspelling I deeply regret is Jerry Block -- unaccountably spelled "Bloch." He was a dear friend I miss more than I can say.
Your help would be greatly appreciated.
278. tmachine - Oct. 14, 1998 - 7:55 AM PDT
you're right, they really did turn it around fast. I mean, some of the stuff you're talking about it is completely current, like Gods and Monsters. I'll be glad to help vis-a-vis typos etc. Terrible when they misspell people's names, isn't it. somehow worse than ordinary mistakes.
279. cllrdr - Oct. 14, 1998 - 7:57 AM PDT
You said it. Anyway there will be a paperback edition, so I'm sure things can be spruced up for it. Meanwhile, enjoy.
280. justlooking - Oct. 14, 1998 - 10:09 AM PDT
Cllrdlr
If you'll forgive me for bringing in a motif from another thread, I noticed that after I logged off yesterday you asked whether or not my church offered same sex marriages (or words to that effect.) I figured I'd be more likely to reach you here.
It's a complicated subject. The short answer is no. But, we have many gay members or should I say, since it's their congregation as much as mine, we have many straight members. (When I say "we" I mean all of us.) But it's not a church, it's a Conservative Jewish synagogue. Some of our gay members have chosen this congregation rather than a reform congregation (which does have same sex ceremonies. I think they're called Commitment Ceremonies ) because they feel that the atmosphere is more genuinely respectful and accepting. I believe that the States should permit secular same sex unions. I don't think that the government has any business determining that same sex partners shouldn't have the same legal and financial status as any other couple. If the word marrage is a red flag they could be called partnerships or something else. But Judaism is not a system of rights. It's a system of obligations and usually community concerns take preference over inidividual desires. Thus, for example, the obligation to ransom the captive even if you don't like him or don't want to spend the money. At this time, the Conservative rabbinate doesn't perform same sex marrages and I don't think that our congregation would decide to do it on its own. In informal conversations, I think the rabbinate is divided on the issue with those in favor of same sex partnerships (or committments) still a minority. (Any rabbi reading this may want to correct my assumptions but this is how I understand it.)
281. MorganMolly - Oct. 14, 1998 - 10:14 AM PDT
Cllrdr
Isn't there some chick in this group who performs outreach ministry to the gay community? I'd like to talk to her. More churches (and synagogues, justlooking) need not only to pay lip service to welcoming gay couples but to actively reach out and recruit gay members.
Do you know who I'm talking about?
282. cllrdr - Oct. 14, 1998 - 10:19 AM PDT
Yes I do, Molly -- it's the dreaded Jenerator. Do not ask. Do not tell. Do not "go there."
justlooking -- You're confusing me with Elliot. I am, needless to say, deeply flattered. You question underscores the need for the "Gay Issues" thread to reopen. For while this thread deals with *a* "gay issue," it can scarcely be said to represent all of them. We're talking Hollywood here, and celebrity culture -- straight as well as gay.
283. justlooking - Oct. 14, 1998 - 10:19 AM PDT
We would not want to recruit members away from any other synagogue. We do try to reach unaffiliated Jews of all kinds. (We welcome converts but do not solicit them.)
284. justlooking - Oct. 14, 1998 - 10:21 AM PDT
Sorry to be off topic. I did make a mistake.
285. MorganMolly - Oct. 14, 1998 - 10:28 AM PDT
Cllrdr
Hey, if she's working for a church that actively reaches out to recruit gay members, that's great, I think. Do you know if her church performs gay weddings? I know a devout Protestant couple in New Orleans that would travel a good distance for a nice ceremony.
Why dreaded?
286. cllrdr - Oct. 14, 1998 - 10:35 AM PDT
Let's just say many of us believe she's a plant for the Rev. Fred Phelps.
287. glendajean - Oct. 14, 1998 - 10:50 AM PDT
The internet buzz yesterday was that Rev. Phelps was planning on picketing Matthew Shephard's funeral with his "God Hates Fags" sign carrying kin.
288. cllrdr - Oct. 14, 1998 - 10:55 AM PDT
Isn't he a delight? The Easter Bunny must be so proud. Not to mention Jen.
289. tmachine - Oct. 14, 1998 - 11:05 AM PDT
speaking as a non-Jewish, unconverted member of a reform synagogue in Brooklyn, I believe that our rabbi (a woman, married to a male rabbi, for what it's worth)'s policy is that same-sex marriages would be ok as long as both parties are Jewish (although I don't think she's performed any herself, but I may be wrong). She does not perform mixed-religion marriages because she says the service has explicit wording that requires you to be Jewish, as it were. She doesn't have any problem bar-mitzvahing our son, although according to Jewish law he isn't a Jew, technically, since his mother (me) isn't. He certainly feels Jewish. sorry, going off the point here.
290. cllrdr - Oct. 14, 1998 - 11:09 AM PDT
It would be on-point if Barbra Sterisand were involved.
291. cllrdr - Oct. 14, 1998 - 1:45 PM PDT
Fraysters in the Buffalo New York area will be happy to know that this Sunday evening I will be appearing on "The John Otto Show" on WGR radio. Around 10 p.m. It's a call-in show so be ready with those questions.
292. Super80 - Oct. 14, 1998 - 1:50 PM PDT
cllrdr,
Will you be interviewed for "This Way Out?"
293. cllrdr - Oct. 14, 1998 - 1:59 PM PDT
Sooner or later. Those queens are awfully slow.
294. elliot803 - Oct. 14, 1998 - 2:02 PM PDT
MorganMolly:
Jenerator's "compassionate outreach" to homosexuals consists of telling them that their deepest emotional and romantic feelings are unnatural and disordered, or worse, and that the natural expression of those feelings is an unmitigated moral evil that will bring God's judgement upon them.
295. trouserPilot - Oct. 14, 1998 - 2:16 PM PDT
Yes, but she does offer them a cookie.
296. cllrdr - Oct. 14, 1998 - 2:25 PM PDT
Yes she does -- much in the manner of the late, great Bill Hickey in "Prizzi's Honor."
297. elliot803 - Oct. 14, 1998 - 5:01 PM PDT
Cellar:
Excellent save there, from yet another digression of this thread from its intended subject matter. I apologize for my part in all of that. I know how it's frustrating you. Where is that promised Gay Issues thread? And where is my copy of your book from Amazon? (I think it's been held up because one of the other books I ordered is "backordered.")
298. cllrdr - Oct. 14, 1998 - 5:15 PM PDT
I'm doing my best, Elliot. But as I'm sure you -- and everybody else today -- is well aware from the "Impeachment" thread, the Fray has a will of its own. I was surprised that FrayVader didn't start a "Matthew Shepherd" thread as he did for those school shootings earlier this year. But as you can see it was scarcely needed It only goes to show that even the Fray is bored with Clinton.
299. Super80 - Oct. 15, 1998 - 5:49 AM PDT
cllrdr,
I got your book from Amazon.com (finally) and started reading right away. So far so good. I think you should take credit as trend setter for the use of the word salacious. Now I can keep on topic on this tread, when I catch up.
300. cllrdr - Oct. 15, 1998 - 11:41 AM PDT
Tahnk you Super, but when it comes to salaciousness, the all-time champ -- beating out the long-esteemed Marquis DeSade by a country mile -- is Ken Starr.