202. Philistine - Dec. 7, 1998 - 4:20 PM PT
What I've listened to today.
Ekstasis - Wake Up and Dream
Pandit Kamalesh Maitra - The Voice Of Sarod From The Strokes Of Drums
David Byrne - Uh-oh
Randy Weston - Earth Birth
Elis Regina - Vento De Maio
Various Artists - Relativity Urban Assault
203. marjoribanks - Dec. 7, 1998 - 4:25 PM PT
Phil,
You are definitely the only real hiphop fan I know who can also get into Indian classical. In any case, the Maitra album sounds thoroughly weird.
How is the Elis Regina album? I love (of course) her songs with Antonio Carlos Jobim but haven't any of her solo albums. Is it bossa nova? Does it compare with 'Tom and Elis'?
204. marjoribanks - Dec. 7, 1998 - 4:28 PM PT
Today I've only listened to Hill's album (six times), and 'Sketches of Spain' : Miles Davis (once).
205. KurtMondaugen - Dec. 7, 1998 - 4:31 PM PT
What I've listened to so far today (odd idea for a list, Phil):
JOHN HUDAK "Brooklyn Bridge" CD (Coal, US)
GRUPPO DI IMPROVVISAZIONE NUOVA CONSONANZA "Musica Su Schemi" CD (Cramps, Italy)
GRUPPO DI IMPROVVISAZIONE NUOVA CONSONANZA s/t CD (Edition RZ, Ger)
IVO MALEC s/t 2-CD (INA-GRM, Fr)
MATHIAS SPAHLINGER s/t LP (Edition RZ, Ger)
206. pseudoerasmus - Dec. 7, 1998 - 4:31 PM PT
OK, since this is in part the proxy books thread, I want to ask a question about a book. Yesterday I read Arthur C. Clarke's "Childhood's End", fêted by some as one of the greatest science fiction novels and often included as among "serious" literature. I found it dumb and sophomoric, full of that typical kitsch humanism and liberalism found in science fiction. Could someone explain why it's considered so good?
207. ScottLoar - Dec. 7, 1998 - 4:36 PM PT
What I've listened to so far today:
Sounds of swimming
My wife as she sets up the Christmas tree
The jingling of cash registers accepting my money
The greetings of our cat
My daughter's muffled voice as she talks with friends on the phone
The sound of intercom wiring being pulled through the walls
Excuses from people who should know better
More than a few instances of silence
Etc.
208. KurtMondaugen - Dec. 7, 1998 - 4:38 PM PT
ScottLoar:
Excellent programme!
209. phillipdavid - Dec. 7, 1998 - 4:39 PM PT
My son gave me 'Sketches of Spain' : Miles Davis for my birthday a few months ago. I listened to it once. It's possible I might listen to it once more.
210. Philistine - Dec. 7, 1998 - 4:41 PM PT
I think I explained that Maitra album in my very first post to the Fray. He plays the tabla tarang, which is sort of a glockenspiel like arrangement of tuned tabla. How many depends on the raag he's playing, of course.
'Vento De Maio' is probably a compilation; it's not really much bossa nova, more pop. Her voice is the main attraction for me; she truly has one of the alltimers, up there with Billie, 'Re, and Ella. I don't understand a word she's saying, unfortunately. Her passion comes through so clearly that I want to know what is so moving. It does compare with Tom E Elis, I think, because there are several excellent duets, including the title track (w/Lo Borges) and O Que Foi Feito Devera, with Milton Nacimiento. In fact, all the tracks are really good. If it's not a compilation, it's most likely a real classic among those who know.
211. marjoribanks - Dec. 7, 1998 - 4:42 PM PT
Loar,
Sounds relatively serene, especially the swimming part.
My favorite sound environment is the ocean when I'm snorkelling.
212. phillipdavid - Dec. 7, 1998 - 4:42 PM PT
teller
Message #193
His books are boring and not worth finishing, but his essays are highly entertaining, imo.
213. Philistine - Dec. 7, 1998 - 4:43 PM PT
Do so, PD, and more; those Gil Evans arrangements will grow on ya.
214. marjoribanks - Dec. 7, 1998 - 4:46 PM PT
Phil,
Sounds interesting, I'll have to check it out because I do agree with you regarding her voice.
PD,
Please do listen to 'Sketches' again, it's grown on me. On the surface of things it's a little pompous and overblown, but there's some real value there underneath. Come to think of it, it may be a good jazz album to recommend to Pseuder.
215. Philistine - Dec. 7, 1998 - 5:10 PM PT
Does anyone else ever play with their ears? Strange question, I know. When I was just a tiny tot, I would hold me ears shut with my fingers whenever a loud nasty noise was happening, especially low-flying airplanes and vacuum cleaners. After a time, I discovered that odd and intriguing effects could be obtained by opening and closing my ears rapidly, either in unison or in a see-saw type pattern. Every once in a while, I still play this game to, I dunno, lend an element of exoticism in my auditory life.
For much the same reason, I also like to squint, cross my eyes, and 'jiggle' my eyes (not neccesarily all at once.)
216. Judithathome - Dec. 8, 1998 - 12:25 PM PT
Thanks, Phil...I'm listening to the Impeachment hearings on the radio and your little tricks make it sooo much more entertaining.
217. trouserpilot - Dec. 9, 1998 - 11:36 AM PT
JudithAH:
Back in '87 while watching the Iran-Contra hearings, which were simultaneously being broadcast on several networks, I noticed that one of the networks was slightly out of sync with the others, so I turned on the TV in the bedroom and cranked the volume. Listening to Oliver North's lawyer argue with Daniel Inouye was much more fun with an echo.
218. phillipdavid - Dec. 9, 1998 - 7:51 PM PT
trouserpilot,
I just looked at your gospel collection and was wondering if anything you have is especially good. I just watched the movie The Apostle and was really moved by some of the music. Both styles touched me -- the rock style (e.g., Lyle Lovitt "I'm a Soldier for the Lord") and the old down-home, simple, country style.
Your recommendations have been very good so far; can you offer me any suggestions?
219. patsyrolph - Dec. 10, 1998 - 10:59 AM PT
I keep waiting for this thread to seque into ART. I like music but I wanted to tell about Art. Well, mostly I wanted to comment on Goya and 3rd of May. there was a discussion here some time ago comparing execution pictures by Goya and Manet.Links were provided, arguments ensued; I couldn't decide.
I saved the Goya for my last vist to the Prado. There is no further discussion. It's Goya. There was young man sharing the viewing with me and we
caught each other scanning the ceiling and confessed we had suspected a spotlight. There is, of course, no spotlight. All of the light comes from the lantern at the executioner's feet. It lights the entire painting and seems to extend into the room.
220. CoralReef - Dec. 10, 1998 - 11:14 AM PT
Message #206
It's been a long time since I've read science fiction but I did devour quite a bit of it when younger (faves Gene Wolfe and Larry Niven for those taking notes). I don't recall Childhood's End being even considered Clarke's best, much less as something on a par with serious literature. Gene Wolfe is generally considered one of the best writers in science fiction and the one who stands the closest chance being considered as 'real' literature.
221. CoralReef - Dec. 10, 1998 - 11:21 AM PT
Arther C. Clarke is mostly known for his ideas. He supposedly came up with the idea for satellites.
222. trouserpilot - Dec. 10, 1998 - 11:54 AM PT
PD
I haven't yet seen "The Apostle" so I'm not sure what kind of music is in it. My collection, such as it is, comprises what I would call "black gospel" (usually involving a big chorus, soloists and backing musicians) and "soulpop gospel" (God/Jesus-themed songs in a style generally indistinguishable from soulpop; i.e., contemporary black/urban pop music). There is another genre that I've heard termed "white country gospel," which is what I suspect was in the movie; I don't have any of this save a cassette compilation someone recorded for me years ago. Sorry I can't be of more help. (I'm sure there's a soundtrack!)
However, if you're interested in black gospel, I would recommend Mississippi Mass Choir's "It Remains to Be Seen..." or Hezekiah Walker's "Live in Atlanta at Morehouse College." Both of these are in a fairly traditional idiom but with some contemporary elements (electric instruments, etc.). I don't have a whole lot of older, more traditional recordings (yet!). However, I expect Patsy to chime in here any minute with "Mahalia Jackson."
223. jonesatlaw - Dec. 10, 1998 - 12:31 PM PT
Patsyrolph- I'm also interested in visual art. I am a bit more sophisticated than "I know what I like..." but not much. I hated Picaso until I saw some of his work in the Guggenheim. There was one piece from the blue period, which I liked, and I could see how someone could get excited about the cubist stuff, although I am not.
You mentioned something that has fascinated me- the effect of light in painting. I find that I really like artists whose work seems to emphasize the effect of light in the work. I would have loved to see the Goya.
224. philistine - Dec. 10, 1998 - 12:35 PM PT
Isn't Larry Niven a little right-wing for you, PD? I recall one book where the heroes were building a super-mall and were basically appluded for killing the radical environmentalists opposed to the behemoth.
I really like Gene Wolfe, though. The whole 'Books Of the New Sun" and 'Books of the Long Sun' jobbers did a real number on me - he's really excellent at postulating plausible political and cultural ramifications from bizarre sci-fi premises.
225. philistine - Dec. 10, 1998 - 12:36 PM PT
Trou -
I said this in the RIP GOP thread, but I think you missed it.
re: Michael Huffington
Ha-hanh!
226. jonesatlaw - Dec. 10, 1998 - 12:38 PM PT
I just couldn't leave it at the last post. I really like some of the American precisonists becuase they break the light down into simple strong shapes and somewhat stylize the effect. Edward Hopper is great with the effect of light as well- The Nighthawks, Sunday Morning, and others I can't name but can still see. I had a poster from the Sheldon Art Gallery that showed a woman standing on a wide landing in a flight of stairs, there are three windows behind her, and the sunlight is filtered through the shades into a golden glow. It too permeates the picture and seems to surround the viewer from out of the frame. I'll have to find the artist and title for you.
227. patsyrolph - Dec. 10, 1998 - 12:44 PM PT
tP:
Mahalia Jackson. Right.
228. patsyrolph - Dec. 10, 1998 - 12:58 PM PT
jonesatlaw:
I'd like to know the name of the picture. Light is amazing in paintings-I am also a Hopper fan and there was an American critic and painter from the artistic Porter family named Fairfield Porter. I saw a show of his at the Boston Fine Arts which had some silly title like "The Last Realist" or such but the pictures were about light.
A few years ago in England a friend was driving us back to London at sunset and I realized that Turner had painted exactly what he had seen in the sky.
In Spain, I decided I'd have to visit Toledo and check out the current view of Toledo. Yep, exactly the same as the picture. Question is why would I expect it to be otherwise.
229. PsychProf - Dec. 10, 1998 - 1:03 PM PT
Patsy...my son loved the Prado, especially Velazquez..
230. philistine - Dec. 10, 1998 - 1:07 PM PT
What the heck, it IS the art thread, right?
I got the new graphic novel (hate that phrase!) from Kyle Baker yesterday. The title is "You Are Here" and I was pretty impressed with it, most particularly by the extremely slick and expressive painted aart. What Baker appears to have done is painted every single panel seperately, then scanned them at an appropriately high resolution, cropped them to size, and arranged them on the page. His vibrantly and vividly rendered caricatures are a delight to the eye, approaching the flexibility and expressiveness of the great screen comedians(-iennes.) Adding to the cinematic feel of the book is Bakers decision to leave out 'word balloons' and instead have all dialog and sfx rendered in distinctive typestyles below the frames, giving each 'actor' a recognizable 'voice.' The story is a clever blend of crme melodrama and romantic comedy (with an unconcealed bitch-slap at Quentin Tarantino) but is basically forgettable. Nicely paced and fun to read, though.
But man, that artwork!
231. PsychProf - Dec. 10, 1998 - 1:10 PM PT
Feast Your Eyes, Velazquez fans
232. patsyrolph - Dec. 10, 1998 - 1:10 PM PT
PP:
Well, we knew he is a sensible lad. I kept rotating among the Prado, Thyssen and Reina Sophia. Oh boy.
Also discovered that the Jardin del Ritz is next to the Prado. Pretty and serene and served the best Club sandwich I have ever had.
233. PsychProf - Dec. 10, 1998 - 1:19 PM PT
Some Goya For Patsy
234. jonesatlaw - Dec. 10, 1998 - 1:30 PM PT
Patsyrolph, I searched the Sheldon Gallery site and can't find the painting. I'll call some of my friends who might know the name, its driving me crazy to forget it. Oh, well.
PsychProf- thanks for the links!
235. PsychProf - Dec. 10, 1998 - 1:35 PM PT
Visit To The Prado
236. phillipdavid - Dec. 10, 1998 - 4:03 PM PT
tp,
Yes, there was black soulpop gospel in the movie, as well as some good old-fashioned poor white country gospel. There is a soundtrack, and I will probably get it.
The movie is very good in that Duval gives an excellent acting performance. While watching that movie, he _was_ the character he was playing. I can't think of a better acting job I have seen recently.
237. resonance - Dec. 11, 1998 - 12:27 AM PT
That's great, it starts with an earthquake, birds and snakes, an aeroplane
Lenny Bruce is not afraid. Eye of a hurricane, listen to yourself churn - world serves its own needs, don't misserve your own needs. Feed it up a knock, speed, grunt no, strength no. Ladder structure clatter with fear of fight, down height. Wire in a fire, represent the seven games in a government for hire and a combat site.
Left of west and coming in a hurry with the furies breathing
down
your
neck. Team by team reporters baffled, trump, tethered crop. Look at that
low
plane!
Fine
then. Uh oh, overflow, population, common group, but it'll do. Save yourself, serve yourself. World serves its own needs, listen to your heart bleed. Tell me with the rapture and the revered in the right - right.
You vitriolic, patriotic, slam, fight, bright light,
feeling pretty psyched.
It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it
and I feel fine.
Six o'clock - TV hour. Don't get caught in foreign tower. Slash and burn, return,
listen to yourself churn.
Lock him in uniform and book burning, blood letting. Every motive escalate. Automotive incinerate. Light a candle, light a votive. Step down, step down. Watch a heel crush, crush. Uh oh,this means no fear - cavalier. Renegade and steer clear! A tournament, a tournament, a tournament of lies. Offer me solutions, offer me alternatives
that I decline.
It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's time I had some time alone
It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's time I had some time alone
It's the end of the world as we know it
and I feel fine.
238. resonance - Dec. 11, 1998 - 12:28 AM PT
The other night I tripped a nice continental drift divide. Mount St. Edelite. Leonard Bernstein.
Leonid Breshnev,
Lenny Bruce and Lester Bangs.
Birthday party, cheesecake, jelly bean, boom! You symbiotic, patriotic, slam, foot, neck, right? Right.
It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's time I had some time alone
It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's time I had some time alone
It's the end of the world as we know it
and I feel fine.
It's time I had some time alone
239. KurtMondaugen - Dec. 11, 1998 - 12:34 AM PT
Nice, Res, but why the hell did you have to bring up Lester Bangs?
240. resonance - Dec. 11, 1998 - 12:39 AM PT
Blame Mike Stipe.
241. cllrdr - Dec. 11, 1998 - 7:30 AM PT
All those interested in finding out more about the newly appointed "New York Post" drama critic, Donald Lyons (Clive Barnes got the boot), are advised to turn to page 147 of Stephen Shore and Lynn Tillman's "The Velvet Years: Warhol's Factory 1965-67" (Thunder's Mouth Press, 1995). Further information is also available in Andy's audiotaped novel "A" -- recently republished.
242. trouserpilot - Dec. 11, 1998 - 12:55 PM PT
recent acquisitions:
• Charles Mingus "Jazz Portraits"
• Charles Mingus "Oh Yeah"
• Cracker "Gentleman's Blues"
• Serak the Preparer "Mission Accomplished"
the complete list is available here:
tcotp
243. wexxford1 - Dec. 12, 1998 - 5:26 AM PT
Now that we know trouserpilot is a secret tango lover, enough said !
244. RyckNelson - Dec. 12, 1998 - 4:23 PM PT
REM still rocks!
You know they do.
Thanks for the lyrics res.
245. JefferySteele - Dec. 13, 1998 - 12:42 AM PT
No one is in the Fray at this hour so I'll write about some books I've been reading lately.
I finished _The Arabists_ a couple of days ago, and started right in on _King of the World_ by David Remnick. Great book. Cassius Clay's story was well known to me before, but Sonny Liston and Floyd Patterson were just names -- actually I had thought that Patterson was some white guy.
I think it was Socko who said that Liston was the Mike Tyson of his day. That is not a bad comparison, but Liston's life seems more tragic to me than Tyson's was. At least Tyson got taken in early on by some people who gave him guidance and tried to keep him out of trouble; if Remnick's account of Liston's life is accurate, then Sonny never even got that chance -- he also never got the money that Tyson got, not after the Mob got their cut.
246. JefferySteele - Dec. 13, 1998 - 12:57 AM PT
Last week I read Tom Wolfe's new novel _A Man in Full_. It's about a Atlanta real estate developer, Charlie Croker, who discovers at the end (he is now 60) of a very successful business and social career that he is several hundred million dollars in debt, hemorraghing money, and as a result, likely to lose everything that he has built up over the course of his life, including his new bride of twenty-eight with the "loamy loins".
I wouldn't call this a great book, but it is very funny with several well-written scenes -- I particularly liked the one where Croker takes his well-heeled guests, which include a rich Jewish couple that he is trying to lease one of his buildings to, out to the stables on his plantation to watch Charlie's prize stud mount up on a mare -- hilarious stuff.
247. JefferySteele - Dec. 13, 1998 - 1:17 AM PT
Finally, I just started _Lone Star_ by Robert Dallek. It is the first half of a biography of Lyndon Baines Johnson; the second book is titled _Flawed Giant_. Supposedly (I am only a few pages into the first one), the books try to redress some of the damage done by Robert Caro's two volumes on LBJ (_The Path to Power_ and _Means of Ascent_). I enjoyed Caro's books, but he took a lot of flack from some who said that he demonized Johnson unfairly by ignoring some of the nobler pursuits of the man. This was especially true of Caro's second book which focused on Johnson's race for the Senate in 1948.
Apparently, Dallek tries to restore some of the nobility to Johnson's character that Caro's slights or ignores. Johnson always tried to use government to help the poor -- this was a consistent theme in his public life from the early days of Rural Electrification during the Roosevelt administration (when Johnson was just a congressman) to the days of the Great Society.
(Caro actually does have a great chapter on rural electrification in _The Path to Power_. It is titled _The Sad Irons_, and shows vividly how important rural electrification was to so many people at the time. Unfortunately, Caro prefers the seedier side of Johnson -- and, of course, there is plenty of seedy material to write about on LBJ.)
248. phillipdavid - Dec. 13, 1998 - 9:10 AM PT
JefferySteele,
I have seen Caro interviewed several times on CSPAN's Booknotes -- once on his biography of the head of the Public Works Dept of NYC (Moses?), and again after his Johnson books were published.
Each time, I was left with the impression that Caro was very concerned with being _thorough_ , getting every last little detail into the story. I was very impressed with his tenacity in tracking down people to interview and in his ability to bulldog through mounds of source material looking for the rat hiding underneath.
I also got the impression that Caro was a noble soul, one that wasn't necessarily more interested in recounting the seedier aspects of Johnson as he was with telling the whole, complete account of one of the monumental events in our nation's political history (the 48 election). Caro appeared to have a great appreciation of the good works Johnson did to help the rural poor. His books are still on my must read (one of these days!) list, and I would expect, from what I learned about him in the interviews, that his next volume on Johnson will give give a good account of the more noble aspects of his political career (i.e., the beneficial things he accomplished for the nation's people and the nature of the motives behind those actions).
249. Philistine - Dec. 13, 1998 - 9:28 AM PT
Marj -
Oh happy day! The bulk of my Khazana shipment arrived yesterday (the Bismillah Khan/L Subraminian jugalbandi is on back order) and I have just now managed to listen once to each of the discs. I think my favorite is the Nine Gems Of Thyagaraja. As I'd hoped, there are a couple of raag on there that were performed by Ms. Ragunathan when I saw her concert a couple of months ago. She has an exquisite voice and her devotion to the art of Carnatic spiritual music is evident throughout the album. Which isn't to suggest that the other records are any less than brilliant - just that I've been on a female singer kick lately.
And one more thing - if you think that The Irresistable Dr. is the apotheosis of kitschy subcontinental album covers you have two reasons to pick up Nine Gems of Thyagaraja!
250. JefferySteele - Dec. 13, 1998 - 1:03 PM PT
PhillipDavid --
I don't disagree with anything you have written in #248. I enjoy Caro's books (including the one you mention which is called _Robert Moses and the Fall of New York City_). He is an investigative reporter who, as you said, gets a lot of the detail that others miss. Unfortunately, he is burdened with a Manichean view of history and people -- and LBJ falls to the dark side.
To give you one example, in his second book on LBJ, almost the entire book is about how Johnson stole the 1948 Senate race from Coke Stevenson, who at the time was either Governor or former Governor of the Lone Star state. Caro presents Stevenson as an old throwback to an America that was more virtuous before the advent of modern day political advertising and campaigning (remember LBJ's helicopter?)would sully her. Stevenson's "old-fashioned" racism is hardly dealt with. Caro also writes of, in excruciatingly fine and readable detail, the way Johnson stole the 48 election, including his lopsided victories in the southern counties of Texas, where Johnson often had majorities of 95% or greater. But, again, Caro leaves out the context: Stevenson himself had some of those same kind of majorities in those same counties when the political machinery was down there supporting him for Governer. Caro, by downplaying this context, is able to present Stevenson as the white knight and Johnson as the dark prince -- something that several historians have objected to.
Will I read the third volume of his biography? Of course, the books are certainly worth reading as long as you remember their weakpoints. But I am also reading Dallek to get a more balanced picture of Johnson.
251. wexxford1 - Dec. 14, 1998 - 6:01 AM PT
The tits and bum of Nicole Kidman are on view in Broadway's dumbing--down- to- the- sewers play " Blue Room." The PR industry has ordered up a dozen stories a day to advertise Ms Kidman's body parts. The media hacks comply.Merge PR-Advertising-Propaganda-Media and this crap is what you get .
252. CoralReef - Dec. 14, 1998 - 6:06 AM PT
I thought she was performing that in Britain?
253. wexxford1 - Dec. 14, 1998 - 6:09 AM PT
Caro's third volume on Lyndon Johnson was killed . Instead, because of the dumb=-it-down orders from Madison Avenue field marshals ,we got
a quickie volume of Johnson's phone conversations. Typical of the material in this non-book,edited by some smarmy yokel,is the discussion re correct trouser-crotch tailoring between Lyndon and his trousers manufacturer,who was a military uniform bloke.( Lyndon had nothing else to do in Vietnam times but hold long conversations about the shape of his pants!!)As for Tom Wolfe's windy eruption, tis a little magazine article on Atlanta blown into a best seller by Madison Avenue orders.I've been told that every library in the US was ordered to order dozens of copies of the Wolfe book.That's the book racket for you these days,kiddies . Tis all as phony and looney as the Congressional soap opera on Monica and the Pres.
254. wexxford1 - Dec. 14, 1998 - 6:10 AM PT
Remnick's non-book on Ali is a rewrite of existing material.
255. pseudoerasmus - Dec. 14, 1998 - 6:15 AM PT
Wexxford: Is there something or someone in this universe which in your opinion is neither a publicity stunt nor an attention-hungry fraud?
256. wexxford1 - Dec. 14, 1998 - 6:17 AM PT
CoralReef--no darlin'. London was an outoftown warmup for the tits and bum show by Kidman on Broadway. Because no plays can be written about1) Bush and China 2) The $Trillion Savings and Loan Robbery 3) Unprecedented Bankruptcies 4) Trading Systems Guaranteed to Pay off Pensions 5) Corporate take over of the media and 6) Dumbing down of Academia,we get jest tits and bum for the dumb masses .Kidman sezx she's doin' the strip show for arts sake . She's also throwin' in a few compliments for the Madison Avenue manufactured religion,Scientology. We are in trashville,baby.
257. pseudoerasmus - Dec. 14, 1998 - 6:20 AM PT
Well, what sane man wouldn't pay top dollar for Nicole Kidman in the nude? There is delectation in that flesh.
258. wexxford1 - Dec. 14, 1998 - 6:20 AM PT
pseudo,darlin. Tis not I who sez its all PR crapo.The former wodld famous Librarian of Congress got his job in better days by pointing out that99% of Amurrican events were PR created . Now yew know his name, do you not? And you know the title of his great book about the PR faking of Amurrican events?
259. wexxford1 - Dec. 14, 1998 - 6:27 AM PT
pseudo darlin'. See the PR release on Little Tommy Brokaw's book this mawnin'. The release,posing as a book review in the NYT,claims that Lil Tommy sez this . he visited Normandy to do a stand up on the war invasion and lo-an' behold ,he " underwent a life-changing experience." The clownish prose rolls on "I was deeply moved and profoundly grateful for all they had done...." And on and on the blather goes . Now,pseudo, darlin. If you think little Brokaw's name on a book is less than a best seller, so ordered by Madison Avenue Field Marshals, you ,baby, are living in another world--and it ain't real . We non field marshals are living in a pseudo-media world,pseudo baby,full of pseudo-media nonsense for the masses. Fess up and enjoy it while you are fillin' these great threads.
260. philistine - Dec. 14, 1998 - 9:48 AM PT
"Elsewhere, Cowen notes that CDs of works by even obscure contemporary classical composers can be found for sale in suburban shopping malls."
Untrue, at least in these parts.
261. trouserpilot - Dec. 14, 1998 - 9:53 AM PT
acquisitions update (see the cult for the whole list):
• Outkast "Aquemini" (1998)
• Redman "Doc's da Name 2000" (1998)
• Paul Bley "Footloose" (1963)
Phil
"looking for Herb at Burger King"?? How old is THAT reference?
262. marjoribanks - Dec. 14, 1998 - 9:55 AM PT
I was the one who compared Liston to Tyson.
I was thinking about them as boxers, the attitude they brought to the ring. It's true that Tyson got filthy rich quick, and enjoyed years of protection from Cus D'Amato, while Liston suffered, went to jail, and fell quickly into the hands of crooks. However, the overt meanness, the desire to not just win but annihilate, and the stunning power, even by the standards of the profession are all highly similar elements in the two fighters makeups.
In addition, I don't think its too hard to see Tyson also as a perennial victim, alone, unhappy and unsatisfied, often humilated in public. Perhaps that will change in time.
263. marjoribanks - Dec. 14, 1998 - 10:02 AM PT
Philistine,
Thanks for the recommendation, though it sounds a little too Carnatic hard-core for me!
264. JefferySteele - Dec. 14, 1998 - 10:15 AM PT
Wexxford --
Your Message #253 is bullshit. Why don't you link me up to a site -- any site -- that says Caro's third volume has been killed.
265. JefferySteele - Dec. 14, 1998 - 10:23 AM PT
Wexxford -- Message #254
More bullshit. Remnick met with the Ali, Patterson, and others who were alive at the time. Not *everything* was a rewrite of existing material. And the fact that most of it is taken from preexisting material -- well it covers a time-period that was more than thirty years ago.
One of the interesting new things that Remnick has in the book is that Ali's one regret in his life was his break with Malcolm X.
266. JefferySteele - Dec. 14, 1998 - 10:25 AM PT
Banks --
As I said, I don't think that the comparison is a bad one; I was just noting some of the differences.
267. philistine - Dec. 14, 1998 - 10:57 AM PT
Trouser -
I missed that one, I guess. Sounds like our boy Reggie Noble, though. He's funny as hell sometimes, I'm particularly fond of his verse on "Green Island" from Dare Iz A Darkside that has him rapping from the perspective of an old man snapping on a young buck for his clothes and slang. But to answer your question, lessee...'90 or '91, I think.
Marj -
I can't imagine why you wouldn't dig the Sudha Ragunathan disc, but I am just now learning about this type of music, and it all sounds pretty terrific to me (with the exception of one echoplex weilding guitarist.)
268. philistine - Dec. 14, 1998 - 11:04 AM PT
Here's the exact quote...
Now sit your big ass down cuz I don't know about this rap stuff,
There wasn't rap when I was pickin cotton, sayin massa.
All y'all whippersnappers, with ya caps on backwards...
Man, y'all fuck around with Quilly I kick a bone out yo' ass quick!
Watch out now, I ain't bullshittin,
I representin the oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-G's from forty-three goddamnit!
And if you keep on with that dirty mistreatin,
I'm gonna whoop your ass, til your heart stop beating!
269. KurtMondaugen - Dec. 14, 1998 - 1:14 PM PT
Philistine:
"Elsewhere, Cowen notes that CDs of works by even obscure contemporary classical composers can be found for sale in suburban shopping malls."
Untrue, at least in these parts."
I suppose that would depend on how Cowen defines 'obscure'. It seems to me that, of the contemporary set, if you're not a transparent media-darling like the odious Philip Glass (whose works can often be found in the 'pop/rock' sections of retail outlets), you're lucky to have your works recorded at all, let alone distributed to mall stores. Many prominent composers (though admittedly 'obscure', at least by general consumer standards) who want recordings made available are forced to allow infintessemal, sub-indie labels to release their works (often with less-than-appropriate technical specifications and little to no distribution), or release their works themselves, at great personal cost. But, such is the nature of the industry. Orchestra subsidies are being slashed, and concert programming in general is geared more towards populist entertainment (Andrew Lloyd Webber, etc.) than to 'serious' music of any kind, let alone new, riskier works by younger composers. On the recording end, classical sales in 1997 fell 21% in the second quarter (according to NY-based tracking group Soundscan), and not one of the top-ten selling CDs consisted of a full-length symphony or opera. It costs over $100,000 to make a recording alone with a full orchestra, plus manufacturing costs, and a label has to sell at least 50,000 units over 5 years to break even. According to Soundscan, Claudio Abbado's recording of Brahms' 1st sold 3,000 in that time, and his 3rd 6,000. Bernard Haitink's recording of Mahler's 7th did not even top 500 units. And these are hardly individuals that could be deemed 'obscure' by any stretch of the word. Many giant labels are routinely dropping their more popular artists, and simply refusing to issue any works by 'obscure contemporary' compose
270. KurtMondaugen - Dec. 14, 1998 - 1:14 PM PT
Many giant labels are routinely dropping their more popular artists, and simply refusing to issue any works by 'obscure contemporary' composers (let alone, as is the case with Deutsche Grammophone, for example, re-issuing their huge back-catalogues of contemporary works by recognized composers). Cadence distribution (which supplies Tower records as well as other major outlets) has recently dropped several contemporary classical labels from their roster (most notably Accord's Una Corda imprint and Auvidis' Montaigne imprint), making these releases largely unavailable except through specialized outlets. And these are the big boys I'm talking about (though that's an odd way of putting it...even the once venerable Nonesuch has reduced its staff to 3). I could go on. If Cowen can go into a Sam Goody in any urban (let alone rural) area and find anything by, say, Demetrio Stratos, or even (more generously) a Kagel or Nono, for example, I will personally eat both his hat and my own.
271. philistine - Dec. 14, 1998 - 1:37 PM PT
B-but Mondaugen, what about all those "Dinnertime Mozart" discs?
272. philistine - Dec. 14, 1998 - 1:41 PM PT
(Something tells me I oughtta stay beyond of Mondo's maximum expectoration distance for a little while.)
273. KurtMondaugen - Dec. 14, 1998 - 1:41 PM PT
"Bach for Dummies", yeah. My favorite was the little sampler of familiar themes (I think it was called "So You Thought You Didn't Know Classical" or something), each of which in the liner notes was listed with a blurb saying "you've heard this piece in a Toyota commercial" or "you've heard this piece in Oliver Stone's "Platoon"", or "you've heard this piece as the theme for "Masterpiece Theatre", etc. etc. etc.
274. philistine - Dec. 14, 1998 - 1:42 PM PT
Surely Mozart counts as an obscure contemporary composer!
275. KurtMondaugen - Dec. 14, 1998 - 1:46 PM PT
Well, I get the feeling from your quote that this Cowen person would think of Messaien or Boulez as 'obscure'.
276. philistine - Dec. 14, 1998 - 1:47 PM PT
You might want to read the article, KM. It's the bottommost link in this thread.
277. KurtMondaugen - Dec. 14, 1998 - 1:50 PM PT
(and while Messaien and Boulez aren't "contemporary", per se, they are 20thC, which has its own share of programming difficulties...let's say Cowen would think of, say, the wildly and inexplicably popular Avro Part as 'obscure'.)
278. philistine - Dec. 14, 1998 - 1:53 PM PT
Maybe Cowen just has better malls around there (whereever that may be.) But more likely he's just plain clueless.
279. KurtMondaugen - Dec. 14, 1998 - 2:06 PM PT
Just read the article, Phil. "Clueless" might be an apt description.
280. wexxford1 - Dec. 15, 1998 - 4:13 AM PT
PR begets fakes and scams,everywhere,day after day . 2 scams of the day . The Olympic committee members--and have you ever heard such a gang of jumped up phonies blather about sportmanship--take bribes as part of their income maintenance. Yeah. And how about this phony PR invention from Guatemala, Nobelist Rigoberta Menchu,whose phony book was a world best seller . Tell ya,pseudo and buddies, you people gotta understand that a world run by PR firld marshals needs shrper threads than the ones you are stitching. Carry on,anyway. Someone has to work all day filling the empty space for the amurrican morons. It might as well be you.
281. Philistine - Dec. 15, 1998 - 5:31 AM PT
Those damn middle-brow elites, spoonfeeding Mauricio Kagel and Pandit Thyagaraja to the mallwalking masses! This crass commercialism must end!
(I keep meaning to ask, Wexx, what planet do you live on?)
282. jonesatlaw - Dec. 15, 1998 - 1:42 PM PT
KM- My wife just picked up "Die Zauberflotte" from a local store on EMI/Angel(?)a 1952 recording with the Vienna Philharmonic with Anton Dermota, Irmgard Seefrreid, Erich Kunz and Wilma Lipp. It's great, given the limitations of the original recording. It seems like this is the only good news in classical, the re-release of old analogue titles.
Obviously, the bad news is that lots of folks like me little or no exposure to new composers, save for that in our local symphony series, which are rather hit and miss.
If you say 20th century to me, I'm ready to hate it. I just associate it with really jarring 12 tone stuff and am left cold. But when I hear things in a positive setting, like our symphony series, I find that there is so much more I'm missing. I just don't have much info on what to look for. Can web sales help "serious" music?
283. KurtMondaugen - Dec. 15, 1998 - 1:47 PM PT
jonesat:
Well, considering that 20th C. stuff is (sometimes literally) my bread and butter, I don't know of how much input I can give you. On that end, web sales can help, in that there are several specialized outlets and in some cases, recordings can be purchased directly from the label. It seems that there are several web outlets for more 'traditional' classical music, but whether they're actually selling anything remains to be seen.
284. jonesatlaw - Dec. 15, 1998 - 1:51 PM PT
Kurt- be easy on my middlebrow tastes and suggest some music, please. I'm not a total phillistine, but will admit that I have taken Glass CD's to work many times. It's like table music, I don't have to work to listen to it, and it is pleasant.
I looks like soon my stereo and I will have a little room to ourselves and I need something more meaty that Bach for Dummies to listen to.
285. jonesatlaw - Dec. 15, 1998 - 1:55 PM PT
KurtM- I have noticed lately that some film scores are more 20th C lately. By that I mean that they use more dissonant chords and more unusual meter etc. I wish I could remember what movie it was, but not so long ago, I noticed this, and found myself ignoring the movie and wondering more about the music.
286. philistine - Dec. 15, 1998 - 1:56 PM PT
Jones -
You take that back!
287. jonesatlaw - Dec. 15, 1998 - 1:58 PM PT
Philistine- only you are a true philistine. I'm just not up to your level, yet.(g)
288. JefferySteele - Dec. 15, 1998 - 1:58 PM PT
Wexxford --
" Tell ya,pseudo and buddies, you people gotta understand that a world run by PR firld marshals needs shrper threads than the ones you are
stitching. Carry on,anyway. Someone has to work all day filling the empty space for the amurrican morons. It might as well be you."
Wexxford, you seem not to realize that Pseudo thought Rigoberta Menchu was a fraud from the beginning.
289. jonesatlaw - Dec. 15, 1998 - 1:59 PM PT
Philistine- I'd take music recomendations from you, too.
290. KurtMondaugen - Dec. 15, 1998 - 2:05 PM PT
jonesat:
Hmmm....well, since you brought up "table music", you might like Erik Satie. Almost anything on Wergo's 'music of our time' series is worth a listen (and more accessable, both aurally and physically than some other label's 20th C lines). I'd just go chronologically if I was coming to it for the first time; start with, say Stravinsky and move on up the time-line...once you can fully get your ears around the serialists, much of the post 50s stuff should be readily digestible.
291. philistine - Dec. 15, 1998 - 2:06 PM PT
Heh, heh.
No prob, Jones, but Thoughtful (tm) and I have to constantly be on our toes.
Anyway, my tastes run from really obnoxious hardcore underground rap to most varieties of jazz (sep. freeish) to the impossibly nebulous 'world music,' but my recommendations appear here pretty often.
I've been listening to Steve Reich's Tehillim a bit lately. That's a really beautiful and, by most standards, pretty unconventional peice of classical music. Since ECM got bought up a few years ago, I'm not sure if it is still available, but there you have it; a true Philistine's recommendation.
292. KurtMondaugen - Dec. 15, 1998 - 2:10 PM PT
Phil:
There are several recordings of "Tehilim" other than the ECM one that are readily available. I believe Nonesuch has discontinued theirs, though, as it's included in their 10-CD Reich compendium, and they wouldn't want people buying it individually. If it's Reich you're after, I'd recommend his very early tape-phasing experiments ("Come Out", "It's Gonna Rain"), or maybe his later "Desert Music" or "Different Trains". Stay far, far, away from "The Cave", though, it's atrocious.
293. philistine - Dec. 15, 1998 - 2:21 PM PT
I've only heard a little bit of Reich besides Tehilim, actually. I think "It's Gonna Rain" was one of them, and also some phase pieces for other instruments; violin phase, piano phase, handclap phase, etc.
As always, I defer to your far vaster knowledge of this area. Heck, I still haven't gone and tracked down that Terry Riley stuff you recommended way back when.
I like 'em both a lot better than Glass, though, from what I've heard.
294. philistine - Dec. 15, 1998 - 2:22 PM PT
King Crimson's "Thrak" is another phase piece I really like, but there's bound to be some hero-worship affecting my judgement there. How can Robert Fripp do that?!?!!
295. trouserpilot - Dec. 15, 1998 - 2:23 PM PT
I like the sirens.
Actually, I classify S. Reich as a guilty pleasure. But "Come Out" and "...Rain" are pretty challenging in their own way.
296. trouserpilot - Dec. 15, 1998 - 2:24 PM PT
"Einstein on the Beach" is another guilty pleasure.
297. trouserpilot - Dec. 15, 1998 - 2:24 PM PT
Keep in mind, almost everything makes me feel guilty...
298. KurtMondaugen - Dec. 15, 1998 - 2:28 PM PT
tp:
Hey, I was raised Catholic...I feel guilty if I burn my toast. But, I gotta agree, I wouldn't normally recommend most Reich or especially Glass. Out of that school, LaMonte Young's the big granddaddy, and almost any Terry Riley's better than all Glass & Reich put together.
299. trouserpilot - Dec. 15, 1998 - 2:33 PM PT
mmmm ... burnt toast with ham flavoring
300. philistine - Dec. 15, 1998 - 2:34 PM PT
Sure, but did LaMonte Young ever collaborate with Suzanne Vega? Answer me that, you, you....
No, don't answer me that.
(on a vaguely related issue, I've been meaning for years to place "Luka" and the Ramones' "Beat On The Brat" together on a mix tape)