What, exactly, is an 808? Or, for that matter, a 303? A mixing console or something?
102. Philistine - Nov. 20, 1998 - 5:55 AM PT
Oowee, I'm late!
Diva - by all means, next week sounds good. Except I'll be working non-stop til Wednesday. Love these slow mobing threads!
Res - "Nothing sounds quite like an eight-oh-eight (BOOM)!" from Super Disco Breakin' by the Beasties. The TR-808 was the standard drum machine for hiphop in earlier days, mainly due to its thunderous bass drum sound, which still appears frequently due to 808 copycat drum machines and sampling.
103. TheDiva - Nov. 20, 1998 - 5:58 AM PT
Phil
Aw hell. D'you mean *including* Wednesday? If so, it'll have to wait until the following, dadgum it. I'll be off-line from Wednesday p.m. until following Monday a.m.
104. resonance - Nov. 20, 1998 - 6:01 AM PT
808 appears in a few other band names, which is why I suspected it was something along those lines.
I thought 303 might be related. It's from a Fatboy Slim track.
105. resonance - Nov. 20, 1998 - 6:03 AM PT
Money makin, money money makin
(manhattan)
super disco disco breakin
money makin, money money makin
(manhattan)
super disco disco breakin
sometimes I like to brag
sometimes I'm soft-spoken
and when I'm in Holland
I eat the pannekoeken
I mean, you just have to love that.
106. marjoribanks - Nov. 20, 1998 - 8:02 AM PT
Phil, I have zero interest in checking out any albums by Pras or any of the other hangers around of the Fugees like John Forte (though I did like the way he came in on the Stayin' Alive-derived song on the Wyclef Jean album).
107. Philistine - Nov. 20, 1998 - 8:53 AM PT
Good for you, Marj (although I think Forte might be ok, and Canibus is also affiliated with the Refugee Camp.) But the real question is; does Hariprasad Chaurasia have soul? How about Andy Partridge of XTC?
Diva - good news, looks like I'm lightly supervised today!
Res - I think a 303 is one of the 808 emulators I mentioned earlier. SP-1200s are a favored model of DJ turntables and another piece of hardware that gets namechecked on the reg.
108. marjoribanks - Nov. 20, 1998 - 9:01 AM PT
Chaurasiya has soul, no doubt.
Also, he is the only flutist (of any musical type) that I can listen to for any length of time.
109. Philistine - Nov. 20, 1998 - 9:07 AM PT
To the best of your knowledge does Chaurasia (the Khazana catalog spelling, so I'm sticking with it) believe in a Soul, in the religious sense? What kind of soul, in comparison to the "gospel" soul that provides the yardstick for soul in R&B, jazz, etc?
(I really hope that this discussion can be made to make sense)
110. marjoribanks - Nov. 20, 1998 - 9:12 AM PT
Philistine,
That's not my conception of 'soul' as it applies to music. That is, I think "believing in a soul in the religious sense" has nothing to do with an identifiable "feeling" which comes from a musician or music. A feeling called 'soul.'
However, I am sure that Chaurasiya would say that he believes in a soul, an eternal soul which is embodied in his music.
111. marjoribanks - Nov. 20, 1998 - 9:12 AM PT
Phil, both spellings are equally good.
112. marjoribanks - Nov. 20, 1998 - 9:15 AM PT
Is rap music soulful?
I think Lauryn Hill's album contains some soulful tracks, but I don't per se think that rap or hip-hop is 'soul' music.
Let's see:
Straight out of Compton (the single) by NWA is not soulful.
Express Yourself (off the same NWA album) is soulful.
113. Philistine - Nov. 20, 1998 - 9:36 AM PT
In another forum, the illustrious tP recently got involved in a set-to about the meaning of swing, a concept almost as personal and nebulous as soul.
I don't believe in an eternal soul, nor does tP. Diva and (I think) Marj do. All of us appreciate soul in music, and I think we could all agree that that quality appears to occur most often in music that is either religious in nature, or derived from such music. So, if soul the sound is derived from soul the ethereal essence, am I just fooling myself? If soul the sound is only that; an audible expression in intensity and rhythm that signal emotional intensity and genuine feeling are y'all just fooling yourselves? Is it possible to be both soulful and insincere, if either theory is true (certain 'cheating blues' seem to show that it is?)
And so on.
114. Jenerator - Nov. 20, 1998 - 9:37 AM PT
Knockin' boots isn't soulful either.
115. marjoribanks - Nov. 20, 1998 - 9:48 AM PT
Phil,
"All of us appreciate soul in music, and I think we could all agree that that quality appears to occur most often in music that is either religious in nature, or derived from such music."
I'm not sure I agree with this. I listen to lots of soulful popular music which has IMO nothing to do with religion. It is always possible to trace the roots of all popular muisc to some aspect of religion, but its often not a notably significant factor.
"So, if soul the sound is derived from soul the ethereal essence, am I just fooling myself? If soul the sound is only that; an audible expression in intensity and rhythm that signal emotional intensity and genuine feeling are y'all just fooling yourselves? Is it possible to be both soulful and insincere, if either theory is true "
1) I don't believe soul the sound has anything to do with religion necessarily.
2) I believe it is eminently possible to be insincere and soulful, it's ludicrous to suggest the contrary. I mean, there are thousands of songs that feature soulful insincerity aren't there?
116. Philistine - Nov. 20, 1998 - 10:00 AM PT
Argh! This is what I was afraid of; we're going to have to define soul to continue meaningfully, and I'm simply not up to the task.
117. marjoribanks - Nov. 20, 1998 - 10:20 AM PT
Phil, hey I think Chaurasia has soul, what do you want from me?
In any case, I'm not sure that you and Diva were talking about 'soul' as such but about music that is occasionally somehow transcendent to the listener.
Soul is about 'feeling,' not really about epiphanies, but maybe I'm only muddying the picture even more.
118. TheDiva - Nov. 20, 1998 - 10:50 AM PT
Hmmmmmm..........IMHO, soul is most definitely about feelings - spiritual, sensual, whatever.....and the very best soul is sincere, and can be transcendant.
A really fine solo can make my spirit soar...witness 'I Didn't Know About You' from Monk's "Straight, No Chaser" or 'Cryin' Blues' from Mingus' "Blues & Roots"......and who can listen to Ella Fitzgerald or Billie Holiday without thinking that such beauty must have an otherworldly origin?
119. resonance - Nov. 21, 1998 - 10:35 AM PT
I can think of some earlier 2pac that I'd classify as being soulful, and maybe some stuff that this guy I know sent me. Crazy kinda guy, lives in Texas.
120. resonance - Nov. 21, 1998 - 10:36 AM PT
As far as this discussion, I like the definition of 'soul' that was used in 'The Commitments'.
121. jdicker - Nov. 21, 1998 - 11:30 AM PT
I was frustrated by all the talk about whether Sade should be read. It would have been much more interesting to have had LS and RS talk about the cost or value of reading him. I also agree with RS that to propose that Sade is okay because reading is not a powerful enterprise is silly.
122. CoralReef - Nov. 21, 1998 - 11:46 AM PT
I liked Sade's "No Ordinary Love".
123. cartman69 - Nov. 21, 1998 - 5:17 PM PT
Some soulful stuff:
John Coltrane
Al Green
Todd Rundgren
Beethoven
Gary Moore (more recent blues-oriented music)
Hendrix
early Santana (maybe the most soulful guitar playing ever)
Jeff Beck
Barry White
Prince
Michael Bolton (kidding! just kidding!)
Philistine: Your comment wrt XTC in Message #107 got me thinking about how frequently the discipline of pop songwriting is at cross purposes with the seizing of the eternal moment that soul epitomizes. But even with really tight pop performers like XTC, Toad the Wet Sprocket, the Raspberries, or Elvis Costello, there's some pretty great songs that could be considered "soulful".
Jenerator Message #114: "Knockin' boots isn't soulful either."
It is when it's with someone you love. "Knockin' boots" isn't necessarily anonymous or even casual sex, imo.
124. phillipdavid - Nov. 21, 1998 - 11:49 PM PT
re "Soul Music",
I agree that not all soul music is religious or spiritual in nature. And this is because I can distinguish different energies emanating from different parts of our nature -- all of which can be described as soulful, but still different in essemce.
Some of the most soulful music has come from heroin users.
I still like the early Clapton stuff for just that reason because I can feel the juice coarsing through his veins and the warm glow in his gut that emanates from the "feeling" one has when on heroin. The same can be said of other's music. Ity is very earthly, emanating from the gut. If you have ever used heroin, you can distinctly recognize the energy coming through the music of users. And this "feeling" can be described as soulful.
It is an all together different kind of soulful than that which emanates from Beethoven or Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, for example. Their music is more spiritual, more of the higher spirit, as opposed to the the belly type of earthly soulful music that emanates from heroin users. A hindu mystic might describe the difference as one type of soulful coming from the belly chakra while the other coming from the crown chakra.
125. phillipdavid - Nov. 21, 1998 - 11:54 PM PT
Now, Al Green is strictly heart chakra stuff. Very soulful.
cartman69, Sanatana still has soul in abundance. I have a recent cd of a live concert in Brazil, and his guitar still resonates an incredibly rich soulful music.
126. Philistine - Nov. 22, 1998 - 2:52 PM PT
cartman69 -
I mentioned XTC mostly because they are among the best known atheist pop types. I do think that whatever soul is, they got it, even if they like me don't believe in such a thing as a soul. I'm not sure if "the discipline of pop songwriting is at cross purposes with the seizing of the eternal moment that soul epitomizes" as much as much as the process of pop recording is. But even that doesn't hold with another of the names on your list, Prince. Prince is basically a one-man band, a master of the overdub. Yet I agree that a lot of his stuff is very soulful. Re: Jen's comment, I suspect that she's talking about the awful Candyman song "Knockin' Boots," in which case she gets no argument from me.
PD -
Equating soul and heroin addiction, well, I can only wonder! PD, do you really like early Clapton because it makes you feel like you are on skag? As the most articulate of the anti-drug posters in the WOD thread, this strikes me as bizarre. Besides, plenty of crappy music has been made by junkies. I'd mention Nirvana, but I don't want to start a fight. The distinction of Bellysoul, Crownsoul, and Heartsoul seems artificial to me, it all 'feels' pretty much the same to me with any differences attributable to the subject matter of the piece.
Marj -
Your post about whether soul in music neccesarily has any spiritual component are the crux of the question I brought up at the start; I want to define just what soul in music is and where it comes from. The word itself and the very close association of Soul Music (eg; Ray Charles, Aretha Franklin, etc.) with African American Southern Baptist gospel made religion seem like an obvious place to start, but I'm open to any suggestions about this. Your comments have been quite valuable, even if progress is only inching forward.
127. phillipdavid - Nov. 22, 1998 - 3:56 PM PT
Phil,
I didn't mean to equate soul music with heroin addiction. I meant to make the point that all "soulful" music doesn't "feel the same to me."
While I can use the word "soulful" to describe both the music of Beethoven and Clapton, the feeling and source of the energy are very different/distinct to me. I can make a clear distinction; even though my use of bellysoul, heartsoul and crownsoul seemed artificial to you, it seems very clear to me. And for me the differences are not just attributable to the subject matter of the piece, but to the source of the energy used in creating the music.
Different music (which can all be described as soulful) touches and speakes to different aspects of my being. For example, some is very cerebral, some speaks directly to my heart, while some grabbs me right in the gut. All those places are very distinct and have their own particular energies associated with them. Just like sexual energy does not feel like the energy I embrace when meditating, there are different qualities of energy associated with differnt types of music. They speak to different aspects of my being -- or differnt aspects of my soul, if you will. Thus, even if the subject matter is the same (e.g. love), and both can be accuartely described as soulful, a piece by Beethoven and another by Clapton touch, speak to, and access differnt aspects of me -- they come from different sources of energy and those energies have different qualities to them.
128. Philistine - Nov. 23, 1998 - 5:15 AM PT
According to George Clinton, who I think qualifies as an expert, soul is a ham hock in your corn flakes. Hmmm...
129. TheDiva - Nov. 23, 1998 - 5:26 AM PT
Okay, now, what I want to know is, how many people *get* that?
130. Philistine - Nov. 23, 1998 - 5:27 AM PT
What's to get? Except that "soul food" generally includes a little pork in every single dish.
131. TheDiva - Nov. 23, 1998 - 5:30 AM PT
That's what I mean! ;-)
132. Philistine - Nov. 23, 1998 - 5:32 AM PT
He also says that soul is a joint rolled in toilet paper, for whatever that's worth.
133. TheDiva - Nov. 23, 1998 - 5:34 AM PT
ahem....
134. Philistine - Nov. 23, 1998 - 5:36 AM PT
Jeez, Diva, if you're just gonna cough, pass it!
135. TheDiva - Nov. 23, 1998 - 5:41 AM PT
Well, it *has* been a while........my head ain't nearly as hard as it used to be.
136. marjoribanks - Nov. 23, 1998 - 5:51 AM PT
Actually, I have sympathy for PD's distinctions.
He's trying to describe the physical impact of various kinds of music that have "feeling" for him, and there is no doubt in my mind that different kinds of music do have different visceral impacts.
However, given that, I think the kind of music we are talking about is what PD would call heartsoul. The other kinds he mentions (bellysoul and crownsoul) are definitely music with feeling but probably not part of a useful definition of "soul" music. Of course, I leave it up to Phil (and others) to come up with that definition!
137. mmitchel - Nov. 23, 1998 - 8:59 PM PT
I've just now heard of the passing at age 43 of jazz pianist Kenny Kirkland. What a damn shame. Kenny Kirkland is one of the most important musicians of our generation and his passing is a great loss. A brief obituary is here: http://www4.jazzcentralstation.com/newjcs/main/article.asp?artid=5687
138. cllrdr - Nov. 23, 1998 - 9:06 PM PT
cartman re #123 -- You forgot Dusty Springfield!
139. cartman69 - Nov. 23, 1998 - 9:49 PM PT
Cellar:
I'll be honest -- I haven't heard enough Dusty to know, but I'm willing to take your word for it.
140. Philistine - Nov. 24, 1998 - 10:22 AM PT
update -
DJ Spooky, Riddim Warfare
Maxwell, Embrya
Pete Rock, Soul Survivor
Contempoensemble conducted by Mauro Ceccanti; Sciarrino, Bussotti, Berio, Xenakis
141. AzureNW - Nov. 24, 1998 - 3:20 PM PT
Hey, KurtMondaugen -
I hope you and MrsMondaugen have a chance to see the exhibition of Leonardo da Vinci's works in Victoria, B.C. before it ends in February. Two beautiful original paintings, two bronze sculptures and a variety of drawings attributed to Leonardo are included in the exhibit, along with paintings and drawings said to have been made in his workshops and by his contemporaries. The paintings alone are worth making the trip, in my opinion. The two by Leonardo are an early version of the Virgin of the Rocks from a Paris collection, showing John the Baptist uncharacteristically without his cross-staff thing and the angel with his wings covered by his robes. In the catalog prepared for the show, the work is said to be thought a rejected contract painting, rejected because it was considered heretical. It is a worderful sight. I'll try to describe it if you do. The other painting by Leonardo is the Kissing Infants. His brass sculptures include a lute made in the shape of a dragon's head and a bust of Christ as a young man. There are hundreds of copies of his engineering drawings and a roomfull of models of stuff he cooked up. It's an excellent show. I would love to talk to you about your impressions of it.
If you haven't visited Victoria before, it's a very comfortable place to spend a rainy day. There are an abundance of hotels in easy walking distance from the Seattle ferry terminal and to the museums.
142. AzureNW - Nov. 24, 1998 - 3:21 PM PT
Go mid-week if you can. It's a very popular show.
143. phiLISTine - Nov. 24, 1998 - 5:55 PM PT
PD - What do you think?
144. phillipdavid - Nov. 24, 1998 - 6:21 PM PT
Azure,
Those two paintings you describe have caught my interest. heretical because the angel's wings are covered by the robe?
145. AzureNW - Nov. 24, 1998 - 6:26 PM PT
phillipdavid -
Yes, I read that the angel's hidden wings was an issue, as was the lack of halos and crosses.
146. AzureNW - Nov. 24, 1998 - 6:30 PM PT
phillipdavid -
Both paintings in the exhibit, the Virgin of the Rocks and the Kissing Infants, are very large and can be viewed from quite close up. I hope you and your family get a chance to see them.
147. phillipdavid - Nov. 24, 1998 - 6:36 PM PT
Azure,
I am going to try and find a link right now to the work you spoke of.
Here is one titled John the Baptist.
Philistine and I were just talking about making a trip up there to see the exhibit this Christmas break.
148. phillipdavid - Nov. 24, 1998 - 6:38 PM PT
Azure,
How long a trip is it from Seattle to Vicoria? Is it practical to just spend a day there and come back, or do I need to plan an overnight stay in Victoria?
149. phillipdavid - Nov. 24, 1998 - 6:42 PM PT
Virgin on the Rocks
150. AzureNW - Nov. 24, 1998 - 6:43 PM PT
phillipdavid -
There appear to be several versions of the Virgin of the Rocks by Leonardo, his studio and by other artists. I wasn't able to find the one I saw in Victoria on the internet.
I do hope you and philistine get a chance to see the exhibit and visit Victoria. My favorite route is the Washington State ferry that leaves Anacortes, about an hour and a half north of Seattle, at 8am daily. With a car you can visit the beaches and sights outside Victoria.
151. phiLISTine - Nov. 24, 1998 - 6:43 PM PT
It's true.
Victoria may be a long way from Austin, but not as far as Rome. I'm interested in hearing from other Pacific northwest based fraygrants about this idea, too.
152. AzureNW - Nov. 24, 1998 - 6:46 PM PT
phillipdavid -
I've got to leave for now, but I'll post some travel tips for you tomorrow.
Victoria has great accomodations at reasonable prices. I would plan to spend the night. It will take about half a day to reach Victoria from Seattle, but the trip by ferry will be relaxing and enjoyable in any weather.
153. phiLISTine - Nov. 24, 1998 - 6:54 PM PT
I was wondering about that ferry trip - in the dead of winter? Sounds kinda...clammy.
154. cartman69 - Nov. 24, 1998 - 10:05 PM PT
Victoria is a lovely city. I went on the ferry out of Port Angeles (this was a long time ago, don't know if that route's still going). It was in January, but we were lucky enough to go on a clear day, so it wasn't bad at all. Aside from the Butchart Gardens, Victoria also has a nice aquarium, and there was a tour of the provincial capital building as well.
155. AzureNW - Nov. 29, 1998 - 4:22 PM PT
philistine -
The trip from Seattle to Victoria and back really is delightful in all but the windiest weather. The easiest way for out of town visitors to go is aboard a Victoria Clipper passenger ferry directly from downtown Seattle to Victoria's inner harbor. Museums, points of interest and all kinds of lodging are within easy walking distance of both terminals.
Ferry service from Seattle to the Leonardo exhibit in Victoria, BC
156. trouserpilot - Nov. 30, 1998 - 11:32 AM PT
nov acqs
• Grupo Jaguar Norteño de Eustolio Salazar "22 Zarpazos Norteños" (1992)
•The Smashing Pumpkins "Adore" (1998)
•Julian Adderly Quintet "Portrait of Cannonball" (1958)
• György Ligeti "Le Grand Massacre" (Wergo; 1991)
• Krzysztof Penderecki 2. Sinfonie; "Adagio" -- 4. Sinfonie (Wergo; 1994)
• Culture "Cumbolo" (1988)
• Russell Malone "Sweet Georgia Peach" (1998)
•Wynton Marsalis Quartet: "Live at Blues Alley" (1988)
• Bob Dylan "The Bootleg Series, volumes 1-3 (rare and unreleased), 1961-1991" (1991)
• Max Roach, et al. "We Insist! Max Roach's Freedom Now Suite" (1960)
•John Coltrane/Archie Shepp "New Thing at Newport" (1965)
• Pete Rock "Soul Survivor" (1998)
•R. Kelly "R." (1998)
• Johnny Griffin "A Blowing Session" (1957)
• Sonny Rollins "Way Out West" (1957)
• David Murray Octet "Ming" (1980)
•Radiohead "The Bends" (1995)
•Sonny Rollins "Worktime" (1956)
• Johnny Hartman "Unforgettable" (1966)
• The Soul Stirrers featuring R.H. Harris "Shine on Me" (1950)
•Otis Spann "The Blues Never Die!" (1964)
• Fela & Afrika 70 "Zombie"
•Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan "The Day, the Night, the Dawn, the Dusk" (1991)
•Antonio Carlos Jobim "Terra Brasilis" (1980)
•Mahalia Jackson "Live at Newport - 1958"
complete list is here
157. KurtMondaugen - Nov. 30, 1998 - 1:53 PM PT
tp:
re: Ligeti...Don't you mean "Le Grande Macabre"?
158. trouserpilot - Nov. 30, 1998 - 2:11 PM PT
kurt
Yes. "macabre" but not "grande"
Still, what I wouldn't give for a grand massacre, too.
159. millhead - Nov. 30, 1998 - 2:22 PM PT
Ummmm, tP, like, do you frequent a used CD store (if so, please name) or order on line or buy new?
What type of deals do you get at a "preowned" store? The best deal around here is $5.70/release, $20.00 for 4 releases.
As always...jealous of your collection.
160. wabbit - Dec. 1, 1998 - 2:44 AM PT
Day Without Art
161. Philistine - Dec. 2, 1998 - 9:37 AM PT
Ordered last night from Khazana.
Galaxy Of Strings - Vishwamohan Bhatt
The Irrisistible Dr. - L. Subraminian
Jugalbandi Live In Geneva - Bismillah Khan with L. Subraminian
Nine Gems Of Thyagaraja - Sudha Ragunathan
Malhar Chandrika - Hariprasad Chaurasia
aside to UPS - hurry!
162. TheDiva - Dec. 2, 1998 - 9:44 AM PT
Phil
I heard the *funkiest* stuff on 'All Things Considered' (of all shows!) last night, and I'll be damned if I can remember the name of the band. It was some English band and it sounded like Bombay Meets George Clinton. It was *incredible*.
163. Philistine - Dec. 2, 1998 - 9:51 AM PT
Hmmm...better ask Marj, Diva. I know almost nothing of Indian Pop music, although I love what I've heard by Bally Sagoo, one of Marj's faves. He's really funky, but more in a hiphop vein.
I should have your copy of "Desperados Del Ritmo" in the mail tomorrow, btw. Maybe even today.
164. TheDiva - Dec. 2, 1998 - 9:55 AM PT
You're a sweetie. I need to send you my snailmail address, right?
165. Philistine - Dec. 2, 1998 - 9:58 AM PT
No, not for weeks now. Just a promise to wear dancing shoes at the wedding.
166. marjoribanks - Dec. 2, 1998 - 9:59 AM PT
Diva,
I bet it was Cornershop, and I bet the song was 'Brimful of Asha' which is one of my top singles of the last year or two.
Phil,
That is an impressive selection and a couple of the albums are classics. I'm a little awestruck at the 'Tyagaraja' album, that's some hard-core Carnatic devotional stuff.
Please post reactions.
167. TheDiva - Dec. 2, 1998 - 9:59 AM PT
You kiddin'? My daughter is decorating a pair of white canvas sneakers for me.
168. TheDiva - Dec. 2, 1998 - 10:00 AM PT
Marj
I didn't catch the name of the song, but I'll tell you what.......it made me want to pull the car over and dance on the roof. It was *smooooooooooooooooookkkkkkkkkkinnnnnnnnnn'*
169. Philistine - Dec. 2, 1998 - 10:05 AM PT
Marj-
I didn't post a review of it because I was just too awestruck, but I had the pleasure of seeing Sudha Ragunathan sing a couple of months ago. This was before I found Khazana, so I was unaware of her stature in Carnatic voice, but I was boggled just the same. My friends and I listened to her for three and a half hours before we had to leave, and she still seemed to be getting started up! Not only is she a lovely woman and vocalist, but she was very down to earth, inviting members of the audience to come in closer, out of the folding chairs to sit crosslegged on stage as she performed (on the condition that they not hum or clap along.) Brilliant and classy.
170. marjoribanks - Dec. 2, 1998 - 10:07 AM PT
Er, well maybe it isn't the Cornershop song after all which is light-hearted, catchy, endearing pop.
171. TheDiva - Dec. 2, 1998 - 10:10 AM PT
hahahaha
maybe not.
172. KurtMondaugen - Dec. 2, 1998 - 6:20 PM PT
RARE JD SALINGER SIGHTING:
Attorneys for JD Salinger have threatened legal action against the Film Society of Lincoln Center over the scheduled festival screening of a 1995 Iranian film which Salinger discovered to be "loosely based" on his "Franny and Zooey". The film has been removed from the festival schedule.
173. Philistine - Dec. 3, 1998 - 3:25 AM PT
Uh-oh.
174. trouserpilot - Dec. 3, 1998 - 4:21 PM PT
RARE PIERRE SALINGER SIGHTING:
Attorneys for Pierre Salinger have threatened legal action against the Film Society of Lincoln, Nebraska, over the scheduled festival screening of a 1998 Oliver Stone film which Salinger discovered to be "loosely based" on his "that plane was shot down by a missile" theory that he got off the internet. The film has been removed from the festival schedule.
175. KurtMondaugen - Dec. 3, 1998 - 4:38 PM PT
MEANWHILE
Attorneys for Oliver Stone have threatened legal action against the Board for the SETI Institute of Mountain View, CA, over their compiled research Stone discovered to "infringe upon" his intellectual property rights to popularize "hot-button controversy issues that people will, you know, talk about". SETI spokespeople have declined comment.
176. wabbit - Dec. 4, 1998 - 2:54 PM PT
I spent a recent afternoon wandering through the Monet exhibit in Boston, and highly recommend it to anyone who has the chance to see it. The subject matter is familiar, but the degree of abstraction in some of the paintings is extraordinary. I don't think there are any advance purchase tickets left, but the queue for tickets wasn't terribly long and the galleries weren't overcrowded. Of course, it *was* Black Friday...
177. CoralReef - Dec. 5, 1998 - 9:28 AM PT
(what is Black Friday?)
178. wabbit - Dec. 5, 1998 - 11:26 AM PT
Reefer, Black Friday is the day after Thanksgiving, traditionally the busiest shopping day of the year. My guess is that many folks thought that the lines to see were downtown in Filene's Basement.
179. patsyrolph - Dec. 6, 1998 - 8:55 AM PT
Greetings Frayrants!
I have returned in a cloud of smug and jet lag. Well maybe not smug but a high degree of satisfaction. It feels great to have thought "Gee, I would like to (insert whatever) do that" and then doing it! Which means I have, by golly, seen and explored the Bilbao Guggenheim. I would describe it if I could. Moscas, Patsy
180. DanDillon - Dec. 6, 1998 - 9:14 AM PT
At the rare book fair held at the Winnetka (Ill.) Community House this weekend, I saw a signed, very limited first edition of Joyce's *Ulysses* that is printed on handmade paper, bound in extraordinary black calf, gilt lettered, published by Shakespeare and Co. and released before the familiar green octavo (1922).
Any guesses as to the asking price?
181. Judithathome - Dec. 6, 1998 - 10:31 AM PT
Well, since you say you "saw" it rather than bought it, I would imagine it was fairly steep?
182. DanDillon - Dec. 6, 1998 - 11:59 AM PT
Very perceptive, Jah. And yes, it was "fairly steep," to say the least.
183. resonance - Dec. 6, 1998 - 12:10 PM PT
Joyce has not only a whole industry built up around him, but a whole cult as well. $25,000? Part of me wants to say much, much higher.
184. pseudoerasmus - Dec. 6, 1998 - 1:29 PM PT
Yes, but the question is, who from among those who have actually read Joyce's Ulysses, could afford such a price without taking out a second mortgage?
185. DanDillon - Dec. 6, 1998 - 1:56 PM PT
res,
25 Gs? Nope. Your "much, much higher" hunch is more like it.
PE,
Fancy a guess?
186. ScottLoar - Dec. 6, 1998 - 2:32 PM PT
US$125,000.00, boosted to that figure by half at least for reason that J. Joyce's works made the Top 100 list of need-to-read-literature-to-qualify-as-educated-and-urbane-in-America.
Wilmette? You know D. Dillon, we really should get together as I am not more than a few miles from you, about less than 5.
187. DanDillon - Dec. 6, 1998 - 3:09 PM PT
ScottLoar,
No, Winnetka. But that's just where the fair was. I live in the city, yes, about a mile or 2 from you. (You mentioned some time back your local whereabouts.) I'm in Edgewater, just south of Rogers Park.
As to the price, you're a bit high. They (Bauman Rare Books) were asking $70,000 US.
Sure, let's have dinner at Pasteur.
188. ScottLoar - Dec. 6, 1998 - 5:51 PM PT
Dan Dillon, now I discover you're about 3/4 mile or less from me. Yes, Pasteur it is, and at your convenience as I'll be in the US for at least the next 40+ days. How to proceed? I don't give out my e-mail address here, so you'll have to oblige by serving yours or just suggest a date and time.
By the way, Pasteur looks very nice for the holidays with the evergreens wrapped in lights, and about a month or so ago the Mayor saw the church opposite and said "Light it up" and lo! two days later the city crews were out spotlighting the old church. I thank them for the parking space in the evening.
189. ScottLoar - Dec. 6, 1998 - 5:57 PM PT
Rather, I thank the church for the parking convenient to Pasteur.
190. DanDillon - Dec. 6, 1998 - 7:56 PM PT
ScottLoar,
Being the time of year of general madness and mayhem, December is rough for me. Would you consider some time during the first week in January? For a lunch perhaps? (Is Pasteur open for lunch?) Feel free to e-mail me with a specific date. I look forward to it.
quelquechz@hotmail.com
191. ScottLoar - Dec. 6, 1998 - 8:17 PM PT
I'll check the calendar and contact you soonest.
192. phiLISTine - Dec. 7, 1998 - 10:50 AM PT
Lead me not into temptation...Whoops! Too late.
Ekstasis - Wake Up and Dream (CyberOctave, 1998)
Ornette Coleman - Skies Of America (Columnbia, 1972
Praxis - Praxis (Celluloid, 1984)
Don Byron - Nu Blaxploitation (Blue Note, 1998)
193. teller - Dec. 7, 1998 - 10:52 AM PT
what's the collective opinion of Gore Vidal?
194. phiLISTine - Dec. 7, 1998 - 10:55 AM PT
I'll have to check with our Kommisar of 20th C. literature, teller.
But personally, I liked "Burr" ok, and keep meaning to read more of his stuff.
195. resonance - Dec. 7, 1998 - 11:44 AM PT
Austin, do you have any Freestyle Fellowship?
196. resonance - Dec. 7, 1998 - 11:46 AM PT
I'm trying to decide between that and Aceyalone's solo.
197. Philistine - Dec. 7, 1998 - 3:51 PM PT
Ooh, good choices, all. I'd go with "Innercity Griots" for a starter. The first F/F record (To Whom It May Concern) is tough to find, and only available on vinyl, besides. In addition to a spectacular effort from Acey, you get stuff from the rest of the Fellowship (Mikah 9, P.E.A.C.E., and Self Jupiter) and a posse track with about seven more MCs. Innercity Griots is probably the most stylistically diverse of the discs, including one straightahead jazz tune with Mikah-9 playing trumpet and actually singing. It's also got the best title and album cover. Plus, I think it'd be all new material for you; I'm pretty sure I got material from both of Acey's solo lps on 'Quien es mas macho?'
Enjoy!
198. marjoribanks - Dec. 7, 1998 - 4:02 PM PT
Is it about time to do another round of Desert Island Disks?
199. Philistine - Dec. 7, 1998 - 4:07 PM PT
Anything to get some posts in here, Marj.
200. marjoribanks - Dec. 7, 1998 - 4:09 PM PT
Well, I just want to make fun of Psocko's list again to tell you the truth.
But I'll list my newest latest favorites:
Lauryn Hill: The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill
Bailando Mojao: Los Van Van
S. E. Rogie: Dead Men Don't Smoke Marijuana
Benny More: Voz y Obra
John Coltrane: Bahia