402. DanDillon - Nov. 24, 1998 - 5:52 AM PT
Who You Callin' Turkey?
The domesticated turkey hardly knows what to eat and has to be attracted to food by colorful marbles placed in its feed. It often catches cold by getting its feet wet, and frequently panics and suffocates itself when a flock presses together in fear. For such reasons *turkey* has been slang for any stupid, worthless, useless, unsuitable thing since early this century. *Turkey* for a poor, third-rate play, movie, or book is said to be an invention of humorist S.J. Perelman who, in the 1920s, called hiself a "Pennsylvania farmer of prized turkeys, which are displayed on Broadway once a year." The word is also used for a socially incompetent, awkward person, a fake drug capsule, easy money (because turkeys are relatively easy to catch), an easy task (a turkey shoot), a valise, a 50¢ piece (from the eagle on the coin), and a hobo's suitcase. *Turkey* comes from *turkey hen*, native to Turkey, which was confused with the American bird.
And a few English words that we have Turkey (the country) to thank for: turban; tulip; yogurt; caviar; horde; vampire.
403. DanDillon - Nov. 24, 1998 - 5:53 AM PT
Still hurts, eh res?
404. mariagleason - Nov. 24, 1998 - 9:36 PM PT
I remembered 'Pease porridge hot...' in connection with another thread.
Does anyone know if the phrase 'a nine-day wonder' is related to this bit of doggerel?
405. choate - Nov. 24, 1998 - 9:45 PM PT
Does anyone know why conservative Republicans use "Democrat" as an adjective? I first heard this about 20 years ago and have been puzzled ever since. Is it a Southernism? I have never heard this usage from liberals, only from their critics.
406. DanDillon - Nov. 25, 1998 - 5:24 AM PT
sweetmaria,
As far as I know, the two "nine-day" expressions you've mentioned are entirely unrelated. A "nine-day wonder" refers to a minor marvel of sorts--the legendary period that passes before babies open their eyes after birth. This expression has been around probably since ancient Rome.
The "nine days old" pease-porridge is simply doggerel, as you said. (The OE for "pea" is "pease" since it came to English via the French *pois*.)
407. marjoribanks - Nov. 25, 1998 - 7:13 AM PT
The word "turkey" itself has interesting roots.
The Portuguese (who had set up shop in India) took a couple of the birds to the court of the Great Mughal in Delhi, who was impressed enough to commission several famous miniatures of its plumage. From the court in New Delhi, these images (and eventually a bird or two) made their way across to the seat of the Ottoman Empire. Eventually, and oddly, the bird became known as "Turkey" in English because the first association with it appeared to come through that country.
The French, being somewhat more accurate, refer to the bird as Oiseau d'Inde or Indian Bird.
408. marjoribanks - Nov. 25, 1998 - 7:33 AM PT
I see Dillon has a different theory about the roots of the word "turkey."
I'll look for sources for my citation (I remember reading a corroboration in (of all things) the WSJ a couple of years ago). But there may be a quick way to get to the bottom of the issue: What year did the Pilgrims and Indians celebrate the first Thanksgiving?
409. tmachine - Nov. 25, 1998 - 7:49 AM PT
1620
410. tmachine - Nov. 25, 1998 - 7:50 AM PT
no, it must have been 1621, because they were giving thanks for their first harvest
411. CoralReef - Nov. 25, 1998 - 7:54 AM PT
tmac is right, 1621.
412. marjoribanks - Nov. 25, 1998 - 7:58 AM PT
Well, there you go. The Mughals were visited by the Jesuits early in the sixteenth century, from their stronghold in Goa which became Portuguese in 1510.
I rest my case.
413. Ronski - Nov. 25, 1998 - 10:06 AM PT
choate,
"Democrat" is increasingly used as an adjective by Republicans because "Democratic" sounds like an ameliorative. I don't know if this usage has any regional roots.
414. DanDillon - Nov. 25, 1998 - 11:16 AM PT
marj,
What case? One against a claim I made? Unclear.
415. PseudoErasmus - Nov. 25, 1998 - 8:28 PM PT
marzipranks (Message #407)
The French, being somewhat more accurate, refer to the [turkey] as Oiseau d'Inde or Indian Bird."
No one says "oiseau d'Inde". The word is dindon / dinde. Anyway, the formal name is "poule d'Inde".
416. IrvingSnodgrass - Nov. 26, 1998 - 8:18 AM PT
Interesting word, this "turkey." No one seems to want to take credit for it. In English, we call it a "turkey." In Turkey, it is called "hindia." In the former East Indies, it is known as a "Dutch chicken" (ayam belanda). In Dutch (as in most European languages), its origins are again ascribed to India. Everyone seems to be palming it off on another nation.
417. NickVanston - Nov. 26, 1998 - 9:10 AM PT
In pidgin, an airplane was called a "steam chicken"
418. ycmeehan - Nov. 27, 1998 - 5:40 AM PT
The French! Oh,boy! They do not eat le dindon or la dinde for Christmas. Too busy force-feeding l'oie, they are, the accurate French.
419. NickVanston - Nov. 27, 1998 - 7:21 AM PT
The oie whose foie I ate last night died in a noble cause.
420. PseudoErasmus - Nov. 27, 1998 - 7:24 AM PT
Yes, but who eats turkey at all except the Americans and, occassionally, the English?
421. NickVanston - Nov. 27, 1998 - 7:33 AM PT
I have been served roast turkey at a French Christmas lunch. Curried lobster was also on the menu, though. Anyway, roast goose is better, provided that it is roasted slowly enough for the fat to run out without burning the meat. (This post has nothing to do with the ostensible subject-matter of this Thread).
422. PseudoErasmus - Nov. 27, 1998 - 7:45 AM PT
Yeah, goose is better than turkey, no question about it. The one has got fat and taste, the other one has got little of either and makes you drowsy at the wrong time of day, to boot.
Curried lobster! J'ai très très faim.
423. DocBrown - Nov. 27, 1998 - 8:00 AM PT
PseudoErasmus, drowsy at the wrong time of day? You must be partaking of the wrong type of turkey.
A shot of Wild Turkey, sipped by the fireplace, always makes me drowsy right on schedule. I prefer Glenmorange when I can get it, but I spend a lot of time in Bourbon country.
424. PseudoErasmus - Nov. 27, 1998 - 8:03 AM PT
I only take antifreeze as an apéritif.
425. RustlerPike - Nov. 27, 1998 - 8:52 AM PT
I liked the Language thread better. Hashkeo, wherefore art thou?
426. hashke - Nov. 28, 1998 - 9:25 AM PT
Rustler:
Thanks for asking. Eyneni margish tov. Ani margish sekharkhoret vebekhila. Yesh li atzirut ve yesh li shilshul, bo-zmanit. Lakhats hadam sheli gavoha miday, vebo-zmanit namukh miday. Tukhal lehasig li rofe? Harofe yukhal lavo elay? Kama tzarik leshalem?
427. ycmeehan - Nov. 30, 1998 - 4:57 PM PT
Hey! PseudoEramus:
Teacher here: you have your accents backward, my friend. You need accents aigus, not graves.
Best regards
428. ycmeehan - Nov. 30, 1998 - 5:14 PM PT
Hashkee:
Not fair. What if some of us try to overwhelm you with our knowledge of foreign languages as I just did with PseudoEramus?
If some of you try to write in Spanish or German and make the tiniest of mistakes, I won't be able to contain myself. Please e-mail your friend next time.
Best regards
429. hashke - Nov. 30, 1998 - 7:22 PM PT
ycmeehan:
Pseudo rarely makes mistakes in French. Only I, who speak colloquial French, make the mistakes. *très* is correct, with accent grave, if that is what you are referring to.
Vielleicht bindest du ihm einen Bären auf? Oder reisst du nur das Maul auf?
Go ahead, overwhelm me. And in the meantime, nem zich a vaneh!
430. DanDillon - Dec. 1, 1998 - 5:28 AM PT
I'm rather underwhelmed, quite honestly. Might we discuss something of substance? Perhaps our best guesses as to which function words (articles, prepositions, pronouns, etc.) are the next to drop out of English?
My vote goes to "whom" and "fewer" to start.
431. NickVanston - Dec. 1, 1998 - 8:54 AM PT
For who the bell tolls? For who the hell cares? How about dropping "the"? In beginning was word, and word was with God and word was god. The Romans got by without "the" or "a".
432. Ronski - Dec. 1, 1998 - 9:33 AM PT
Isn't it "beaucoup faim;" literally, "I have *much* hunger?" As opposed to English, "I am very hungry."
433. hashke - Dec. 1, 1998 - 1:44 PM PT
Ronski:
Or 'beaucoup de faim'.
'Beaucoup' can be replaced here by 'très', as in 'elle avait très soif', or 'ils ont très faim'.
Any news on Lithuanian?
434. ycmeehan - Dec. 1, 1998 - 2:05 PM PT
I finally managed to get one of you to react to me.
Thanks, Kashke.
435. ScottLoar - Dec. 1, 1998 - 3:14 PM PT
Suffused with enthusiasm for a holiday book list incidentally initiated in the International Thread I cannot but recommend to the Language Thread two books by Karen Elizabeth Gordon:
"The Well-Tempered Sentence: A Punctuation Handbook for the Innocent, the Eager, and the Doomed" - example, The Dash, pg. 72, "Last night, as we slept together for the last time - where were you, anyway?"
"The Transitive Vampire: A Handbook of Grammar for the Innocent, the Eager, and the Doomed" - example, Comma Splices, pg. 112, "She wrapped herself up in an enigma; there was no other way to keep warm."
436. Ronski - Dec. 1, 1998 - 3:23 PM PT
Lithuanian, I am told by my friend (assuming I made my question clear to him), has both articles (unlike Slavic), and pronouns, but they both may be dropped by the speaker without any loss of understanding, and that is done, apparently, quite often.
I suppose it is similar to dropping "usted" in Spanish when asking a question.
I will ask him the other questions posed, shortly (I must do so, since he is moving from the area, and will be dividing his time between Miami and Vilnius, at the request of his new wife, though he tells me he would have preferred New York and Tahiti).
437. PseudoErasmus - Dec. 1, 1998 - 3:28 PM PT
Message #433
Speaking of colloquial French (mine is genevois, based on those eight years before puberty), I have never heard "j'ai beaucoup DE faim" before.
438. Ronski - Dec. 1, 1998 - 3:32 PM PT
And I'd hate to see "whom" and "fewer" go away, though perhaps the former is about as much in use as Cornish these days. The use of "less" when "fewer" is called for makes me queasy.
On a personal note, I just heard the bank has made the error of giving us a mortgage commitment on the new house we covet, so I am going off to make martinis (real ones, not X-er corruptions of same). Cheers!
439. Ronski - Dec. 1, 1998 - 3:37 PM PT
PE,
But before I go, is Genevois akin to Vaudois?
Room,
And speaking of martinis, does anyone, anywhere (as in Holland, perhaps) drink genever anymore (admitting that dry gin is far more palatable)?
440. PseudoErasmus - Dec. 1, 1998 - 4:29 PM PT
No, I'd say the French spoken in Geneva doesn't sound like the drunken one of Lausanne.
441. ScottLoar - Dec. 1, 1998 - 4:30 PM PT
Yes, I drink genever, the last bottle being by Bols, a liking I acquired in Holland along with pees soup and herring. But I'm a sap for local tastes.
442. AzureNW - Dec. 1, 1998 - 4:32 PM PT
Does the drunken French spoken in Lausanne sound as drunken as English spoken by a Russian?
443. hashke - Dec. 1, 1998 - 6:18 PM PT
PE:
Given that your puberty has, with some probability, exteeeended to the present day, you may still have time to hear such a construction. ;-))
Just kidding, PE, really!!! Saw the opening and no linebacker and went for it.
Mebbe we should just say 'jai l'estomac dans les talons' or 'il a une faim de loup'.
444. IrvingSnodgrass - Dec. 1, 1998 - 6:42 PM PT
ScottLoar Message #435:
I second your recommendation of Gordon's books. They have had an honored place on my bookshelves for a number of years.
Ronski:
I agree with your Message #438... the use of "less" when "fewer" is meant is one of my pet peeves.
As for your Message #439, where does this "genever" spelling come from? I can't find it in any dictionary, although I've seen it before. In Dutch, it is spelled "jenever." The word comes from the Dutch word for "juniper," and is pronounced "yeh-nay-fur." Jenever, especially Oude Jenever, remains very popular in this former Dutch colony.
445. ScottLoar - Dec. 1, 1998 - 8:25 PM PT
Yes, you're right, Jenever, and not that lady from Le Mort d'Arthur.
446. IrvingSnodgrass - Dec. 2, 1998 - 12:36 AM PT
Does anyone remember the report posted by Wonkers in Message #316 and Message #317 about the Chinese film titles?
It turns out that the film titles reported were taken from a humor list circulated on the internet, and were picked up somehow as a true report by the NY Times and other papers.
Here is what the list's creator, Chris White, had to say in his daily list yesterday:
"Today's list is a "Top 5 Classic", originally published on August 25, 1997.
"Believe it or not, an article recently published in the New York Times used most of these as examples of *actual* poorly-translated movie titles in "Hong Kong, where the demand for literal descriptions has produced some jarring results."
"The article has since appeared in at least three other major newspapers. It seems they didn't realize it was comedy. Of course, no credit was given to Top5."
The original "Top 5" list appears in the next post, but this time, I'm giving credit to Chris White and Top 5, and a disclaimer: This is comedy, folks. It is not real life.
447. IrvingSnodgrass - Dec. 2, 1998 - 12:40 AM PT
The Top 15 Chinese Translations of English Movie Titles
15> "Pretty Woman" - "I Will Marry a Prostitute to Save Money"
14> "Face/Off" - "Who Is Face Belonging To? I Kill You Again, Harder!"
13> "Leaving Las Vegas" - "I'm Drunk And You're a Prostitute"
12> "Interview With The Vampire" - "So, You Are a Lawyer?"
11> "The Piano" - "Ungrateful Adulteress! I Chop Off Your Finger!"
10> "My Best Friend's Wedding" - "Help! My Pretend Boyfriend Is Gay!"
9> "George of the Jungle" - "Big Dumb Monkey-Man Keeps Whacking Tree With Genitals"
8> "Scent of a Woman" - "Great Buddha! I Can Smell You From Afar! Take a Bath, Will You?!"
7> "Love, Valour, Compassion!" - "I Am That Guy From Seinfeld So It's Acceptable for Straight People to Enjoy This Gay Movie"
6> "Babe" - "The Happy Dumpling-to-be Who Talks And Solves Agricultural Problems"
5> "Twister" - "Run! Ruuunnnn! Cloudzillaaaaa!"
4> "Field of Dreams" - "Imaginary Dead Baseball Players Live in My Cornfield"
3> "Barb Wire" - "Delicate Orbs of Womanhood Bigger Than Your Head Can Hurt You"
2> "Batman & Robin" - "Come to My Cave and Wear This Rubber Codpiece, Cute Boy"
and the Number 1 Chinese Translation of an English Movie Title...
1> "The Crying Game" - "Oh No! My Girlfriend Has a Penis!"
448. MrSocko - Dec. 2, 1998 - 12:45 AM PT
Why rid the language of "fewer"? It means something entirely different than "less." And without "whom" we would never have had Lenin's great axiom: "Who whom?"
Any thoughts out there on which the first to go should be among "luminate" and "illuminate"?
449. DanDillon - Dec. 2, 1998 - 5:41 AM PT
Socko,
It's not a question of ridding the language of any particular word on purpose; rather, more and more people are simply ignoring the ostensibly valuable distinction between "less" and "fewer." There's not a damn thing we who like both words can do about it. Sure, this annoys us. We know the difference. But by another's perspective, we're merely boorish enough to *mind* the difference.
450. PseudoErasmus - Dec. 2, 1998 - 5:48 AM PT
Lots of languages don't have the distinction between "less" and "fewer" (but then some languages express "fewer" by having plural forms of "less"....). Must we again go through the rounds of expressing ire on the old prescriptivist chestnuts?
451. MrSocko - Dec. 2, 1998 - 6:03 AM PT
I quite agree. Fewer ire and less old prescriptivist chestnuts would make The Fray a better place.
452. DanDillon - Dec. 2, 1998 - 6:08 AM PT
Fair enough.
453. Ronski - Dec. 2, 1998 - 6:57 AM PT
Irv,
You are right. It is spelled with a "j" in Dutch, not a "g." My mistake. I was confusing it with the French, "genievre," which is a kind of semi-dry gin, I believe, and which is mentioned today, as it happens, in The New York Times Dining Section.
454. DanDillon - Dec. 3, 1998 - 6:03 AM PT
A few bits for the current state of things:
Lost in Translation
Words? You decide.
455. NickVanston - Dec. 3, 1998 - 7:24 AM PT
I once saw "l'équilibre de la solde de la balance des paiements" machine-translated into "the balance of the balance of the balance of payments"
456. RustlerPike - Dec. 3, 1998 - 8:06 AM PT
hashkeo, hashkeo, wherefore art thou hashkeo?
457. RustlerPike - Dec. 3, 1998 - 8:16 AM PT
Hash - please answer no. 582 in Israel and Palestine. I hope you weren't serious about any of the above complaints!
458. IrvingSnodgrass - Dec. 3, 1998 - 8:51 AM PT
Dan:
The "Lost in Translation" article is fascinating. I've been surprised at how accurate the translations I've tried on Altavista have been.
However, it's discouraging to see a glaring error such as the following in such a generally well-presented report:
"In going from English to Japanese, the rearrangement rate hits almost 100 percent, partly because in Japanese -- as in most languages, with the notable exceptions of English and the Romance languages -- verbs regularly come at the end of the sentence."
This, as any self-respecting linguist knows, is nonsense. The majority of the world's languages are SVO. There are examples of just about any combination (though not all), including OVS, VSO, etc. Languages with verb-final sentences (usually SOV) are actually quite rare. In fact, Japanese is the only major verb-final language I can think of.
459. DanDillon - Dec. 3, 1998 - 11:07 AM PT
Irv,
Excellent points. The only other major verb-final language I can think of off the top of my head is German (though with all of its recent permutations, who knows where the Deutsch verb is ending up these days?).
Are you aware of any OSV languages? I'm certainly not. Even those languages that are more synthetic/inflectional do not allow such syntax, yes?
460. IrvingSnodgrass - Dec. 3, 1998 - 11:20 AM PT
Dan:
I read an article recently which said that reports of existing OSV languages have all been proven to be in error, and as far as anyone knows, there aren't any.
Indonesian, interestingly enough, is undergoing a fundamental change in word order. Traditionally, word order has been OVS, but it is shifting to SVO. Not surprisingly, this leads to misunderstandings all the time.
461. DanDillon - Dec. 3, 1998 - 11:41 AM PT
I could imagine the resultant confusion and misunderstandings, at least with two animate things as the S and the O:
Jane smells Bob.
No, Bob smells Jane.
But with one inanimate thing as the O, I suppose everything would be okay:
Julie speaks Latin.
*Latin speaks Julie.
462. PseudoErasmus - Dec. 3, 1998 - 11:51 AM PT
Message #459
German is a "verbal-final" language ONLY in dependent clauses, NEVER in independent clauses.
463. hashke - Dec. 3, 1998 - 1:43 PM PT
Rustler:
Sorry I missed #582. I have been staying away from the killer computer for awhile.
With what dictionaries I have, here goes:
khozer lanu ha-barak la-`eynayim -- return to us the glitter of our eyes (a play on the village Barak?).
yesh tikvah 'im barak -- there's hope with Barak.
peres=heres -- peres=destruction
lo tivgod -- no, not (lo 'tivgod' in my dicts)
dor shalem doresh shalom -- a complete generation something (two hundred generations???) of peace.
dor shalem doresh yerushalayim(?) -- a complete generation something Jerusalem.
Ken, khaver, ani khole. Makhar ba-boker rofe. Likhtov be-ivrit, be-vakashah! Ani rotze lilmod hazeh-lashon!
464. hashke - Dec. 3, 1998 - 1:45 PM PT
harofe
465. RustlerPike - Dec. 4, 1998 - 4:42 AM PT
Hashke:
Yafe meod! Lo ra' bichlal (ch=chaf, kh=khet - OK?)!!! Ani ma'atik et meser (meser is a new word invented by the Academy. It comes from the root MSR, to relay or forward, and means 'message'. It also sounds like *message* - which was part of the idea. It's caught on very nicely) mispar 463 le"khut Israel and Palestine", ve-ani a'ane lecha sham.
Hachi khashuv: targish tov! Anu ohavim otcha vezkukim lecha! Ata ben-adam khamud!!!
466. DanDillon - Dec. 4, 1998 - 7:16 AM PT
Get a load of this. From my soon-to-be-famous calendar:
LANT - The Saxon word for urine, used through the 19th century for the stale human urine that was used for a variety of domestic and industrial purposes. Besides its function as a barber's hair wash called "lotium," it was mentioned in old recipes as an additive used for moistening pastry and helping the glaze to stick. In the 17th century, it was added to ale, apparently for the flavor that it imparted. The resulting beverage was referred to as "single" or "double-lanted" ale, depending on the concentration.
467. ScottLoar - Dec. 4, 1998 - 7:47 AM PT
The British do seem to have a "thing" for urine. British men o'war in the 18th and early 19th centuries held huge vats into which the crew were obliged to piss, storing the urine to extinguish fire.
468. DanDillon - Dec. 4, 1998 - 8:53 AM PT
A most practical application for so useless a substance. (I understand that it's common practice to urinate on--or into--one's car radiator in case of overheating.)
469. ScottLoar - Dec. 4, 1998 - 8:57 AM PT
Urine does toughen the hands if you're ever obliged to really "work" to make a living.
470. DanDillon - Dec. 4, 1998 - 9:22 AM PT
Work?
471. NickVanston - Dec. 4, 1998 - 9:57 AM PT
I think that human urine was also used in the textile industry at one time -- something to do with fulling cloth -- and that vats were placed in streets for men to piss in, to collect it. While we are on this topic, a Scottish friend told me that in the streets of Edinborough within living memory, one could hire a kind of large enveloping cloak to use as a temporary shelter while relieving oneself into the gutter. The price depended on how long the hire lasted. I think I had better stop there.
472. DanDillon - Dec. 4, 1998 - 10:39 AM PT
Leather is cured using goat urine at the tanneries in Fes, Morocco. (Hmm. Maybe it's not such a useless substance, après tout.)
473. ScottLoar - Dec. 4, 1998 - 11:49 AM PT
A former President of India (beware Marjoribanks!) - Desai, I believe - drank a cupful of his own urine first thing in the morning for its supposedly salutory effects.
474. ScottLoar - Dec. 4, 1998 - 11:56 AM PT
During the rut the male moose urinates and ejaculates copiously into a trough he's stamped out of the ground, leaving this hole to attract female moose who attracted by the scent wallow in the mud all the while whinnying with flared nostrils.
475. ScottLoar - Dec. 4, 1998 - 11:57 AM PT
Coyote urine sprayed on the shrubs is supposedly a sure deterrent to browsing deer.
476. ScottLoar - Dec. 4, 1998 - 12:01 PM PT
Urine supposedly relieves the sting of jellyfish.
Great thing, urine.
477. dagoba2 - Dec. 4, 1998 - 12:02 PM PT
The British also poured saved urine over the copper roofs of buildings (such as Parliament) to hasten the oxidation proccess that turns them green.
478. ScottLoar - Dec. 4, 1998 - 12:04 PM PT
Just as careless workers restoring the Stature of Liberty stained her face by pissing from the crown.
479. DanDillon - Dec. 4, 1998 - 12:44 PM PT
ScottLoar Message #473,
I think you mean salutary (or perhaps salubrious).
480. arkymalarky - Dec. 4, 1998 - 3:02 PM PT
We were told at Pompeii that the people washed their clothes in a mixture of ashes and urine.
481. ScottLoar - Dec. 4, 1998 - 3:05 PM PT
Thus does urine contribute to the advancement of civilization.
482. Seguine - Dec. 4, 1998 - 3:28 PM PT
You are redeemed, ScottLoar, although I am even more certain now that it would be unwise to drink with you.
Wasn't ammonia made from the collected urine of cows used in pre-modern India to clean clothing?
483. gravel - Dec. 4, 1998 - 5:09 PM PT
The first fertility drugs, thirty-some years ago, were made from the urine of Italian nuns.
484. DanDillon - Dec. 4, 1998 - 7:35 PM PT
I'd like to raise my cup and propose a toast....
to urine!
Okay everybody, let's get pissed!!
485. resonance - Dec. 4, 1998 - 7:47 PM PT
Mountian men used to urinate in the barrels of their rifles and prop them up overnight. The uric acid would clean the barrel out.
That would leave them nice and clean when it came time to shoot people for really awful piss puns.
486. ScottLoar - Dec. 4, 1998 - 7:54 PM PT
Gravel, why need a fertility drug be made from the urine of Italian nuns? Can you cite a source, please, as it really sounds incredible.
487. ScottLoar - Dec. 4, 1998 - 7:56 PM PT
Dan Dillon, you'll likely drink alone on that toast, or you'd best invite Desai.
488. resonance - Dec. 4, 1998 - 7:58 PM PT
Actually, I've heard of that too -- the urine fertility Nun thing. I'm trying to remember where.
489. DanDillon - Dec. 4, 1998 - 8:03 PM PT
res, ScottLoar,
Mea culpa.
490. IrvingSnodgrass - Dec. 5, 1998 - 12:32 AM PT
Res:
Sounds like you're pissed off.
ScottLoar:
It was Morarji Desai (to give the full name of India's PM, whom, it seems, is best remembered today more for consuming a daily glass of urine than for anything he did in office).
491. thomasd - Dec. 5, 1998 - 1:18 AM PT
Are new acronyms included in this thread?
BITS: Building Integrated Timing Supply.
492. thomasd - Dec. 5, 1998 - 1:20 AM PT
Re. 490 -
Doing that isn't very healthy.
493. gravel - Dec. 5, 1998 - 2:45 AM PT
Message #486 ScottLoar:
Today recombinant technology takes care of many problems associated with the purity of products. While I'm checking for the name of one particular drug and its manufacturer, this: It was the gonadotropins from post menopausal Italian nuns which is said to have been chosen to provide the necessary follicle-stimulating hormones in the earliest fertility drugs.
If the drugs became available in the United States thirty years ago, the research probably began at least fifty years ago. Perhaps the first manufacturers were European, and Italian nuns were close in proximity, were viewed as being less likely to have contaminants in their systems, etc.
It does raise interesting questions about the researchers.
494. gravel - Dec. 5, 1998 - 3:09 AM PT
ScottLoar:
Incidentally. The birth-control pill, available for at least thirty-five years, is said to have been designed for use as a fertility drug. It's still, upon occasion, used for that purpose.
495. ScottLoar - Dec. 5, 1998 - 5:41 AM PT
Ah! Good and credible explanation.
496. DanDillon - Dec. 5, 1998 - 8:14 AM PT
Irv Message #490,
Thanks for REScuing me there. And shouldn't it be "It was Morarji Desai...who...."
Aw, to hell with correctness. I mean, whom cares?!
497. gravel - Dec. 5, 1998 - 8:35 AM PT
Message #496
DanDillon:
My humble guess would be about...oh,...three more people.
498. gravel - Dec. 5, 1998 - 9:55 AM PT
Having just read what I said, and feeling like a total idiot, I'll attempt to clarify. There are lots of excellent writers in this forum. I meant to say that three in particular were interested in DanDillon's writing.
I'm interested because, though I don't have faces for any of the writers (and I'm usually looking at the substance of the post), I noticed right off that DanDillon is skilled with the language.
The second person I included in the particularly-interested group was Unknown. I created that person to stand for the something which I always overlook.
The third person (boy is my face burning at this moment) is the one other person in here who writes as well as DanDillon.
I'm done. Please, God, let this be okay.
499. DanDillon - Dec. 5, 1998 - 10:03 AM PT
"...feeling like a total idiot..."
"...I'll attempt to clarify."
"I created that person to stand for the something which I always overlook."
"The third person...is the one other person...."
"Please, God, let this be okay."
Nicely done.
500. IrvingSnodgrass - Dec. 5, 1998 - 10:14 AM PT
Dan:
noooo... "whom" refers to "India's PM," in the parenthetical addendum. But I should have said "better," rather than "best."