I was here when this place first started. It was hard to miss the guerilla marketing campaign on TT
196. Cellar Door - 6/14/2001 8:52:38 PM
The difference between The Mote and Table Talk is fairly obvious.
On Table Talk you can get laid.
At the Mote that's not possible most of the time.
197. RosettaStone - 6/14/2001 8:58:27 PM
It's not the giant penis with the cowboy riding it, gang. It's the reaper!
198. JJBiener - 6/14/2001 9:08:01 PM
Rask - I'd guess that everyone here was a lurker once who felt like they were crashing a party.
Well, not everyone. I posted to the Fray the first day it was online. My tenure is a couple of hours longer than PE's. Irv's is almost as long.
199. ScottLoar - 6/14/2001 9:26:58 PM
I came to the Fray by reason of the 20-year anniversary of the famous photo showing the naked and crying Vietnamese girl running from a napalm attack. In a spirit of cameraderie after a day or two I said "we" to that ankle-biting terrier now posing as Pseudoerasmus. He set me right and I've hated the son-of-a-bitch ever since, but I've never found that Fray or this Mote a closed forum. Difficult people sometimes yes, but on the whole intelligent, engaging, and surprisingly well-informed and usually interested if not always interesting. Some of the people are astonishingly talented and insightful; others present their arguments with a power I can only envy; still yet others write damn, damned good prose. If there is a better all-around forum I've not yet found it.
200. RosettaStone - 6/14/2001 9:34:40 PM
With my best Elvis Presley imitation: "Thank you. Thank you very much."
201. concerned - 6/15/2001 12:39:15 AM
15. oceans11 - 6/13/01 4:27:00 PM
I don't think they delete posts at TableTalk, do they?
Certainly they do. And posters, too. Indiscriminately.
202. concerned - 6/15/2001 1:19:40 AM
24. sakonige - 6/13/01 4:51:19 PM
TT sysops delete posts based on participants' requests. The community standards are not necessarily the standards used. Posts violating community standards are routinely not deleted, and posts that are arguably not in violation are routinely deleted. The trick is to cultivate a relationship with the management so that they respond to your requests. It took me a while to accomplish, but I eventually was able to get posts deleted and people I disliked banned.
How convenient.
203. concerned - 6/15/2001 1:22:23 AM
44. boyblue - 6/13/01 7:50:53 PM
Having associated with conservatives, perhaps they felt the need for a thorough cleansing. It could be as simple as that.
Ah. An admission that National Socialism lives on at TT.
204. Hamsa - 6/15/2001 4:59:33 AM
bettyx, have felt a bit the same about diving in...it is never fun to be the new kid on the block.
205. Dusty - 6/15/2001 6:54:11 AM
bettyx
Nice post.
There was a betty in the old Fray. I'm guessing that wasn't you. For one thing, you sound too conservative to be her :)
If you are feeling left out that no one has been rude to you, strike up a conversation with Ace.
I missed the Pinochet discussion in TT, but I've seen some over here: even when one disagrees with him, the scholarship is impressive.
206. Dusty - 6/15/2001 6:59:59 AM
Hamsa
Welcome!!!!
I'd love to tell you to just dive in, the water's fine, but, well, some take to it, and others don't.
I can't even say that no one will bite, because someone most assuredly will. But I checked and all the bites have healed.
207. Dusty - 6/15/2001 7:06:41 AM
ScottLoar
My mental timeline is discombombulated. Maybe you can help. I thought there was a discussion about that photo in here in the last year. Could that have been a 25th anniversary?
I'll second your comments about strong support of arguments, and damn fine prose.
208. ScottLoar - 6/15/2001 7:14:42 AM
Yes, it may very well have been the 25th anniversary, about 5 or 6 years ago?
209. joezan - 6/15/2001 7:22:59 AM
Dusty:
You're thinking of BettyV, the capital A anarchist - who is no doubt now living on some commune in Oregon, dreaming of her next Starbuck's attack.
Very weird chick, but I really liked her. Her screed against "commodified dissent" was priceless.
210. Dusty - 6/15/2001 7:31:32 AM
Yep. BettyV
I just find it amusing to note that bettx, self-described as a bleeding heart liberal, would be the (relatively) "conservative" betty, if bettyv were around.
211. Toenails - 6/15/2001 7:34:18 AM
Is anyone concerned that all this Table Talk talk might lead to defections from here to there?
I may be the only one, but I'd never even heard of TT until it came under discussion here. Now I'm curious.
Yeah, I know, I know...if I leave I won't be missed.
212. ycmeehan - 6/15/2001 8:29:04 AM
ScottLoar,
Some of the people are astonishingly talented and insightful; others present their arguments with a power I can only envy; still yet others write damn, damned good prose.
Absolutely and for someone like me for whom English is a second language, after maternal French and bad early Spanish, the site has offered many opportunities to improve my writing skills. Some of the Moties may not agree that I am better at writing English now than when I started posting in The Fray but then they haven't read my early posts.
I wish there was a way to listen to posters besides reading their output. Not that I have any hope to improve my accent in English. This has been proven impossible but it would be great to listen to all the different American and foreign accents of the Moties, at least for me.
213. Wombat - 6/15/2001 8:40:12 AM
Newbies:
As long as you don't post platitudes in the more substantive (as opposed to the "social" or frivolous threads) you should fit right in. If you have strong opinions and can back them up well enough to sustain a conversation (or in some cases a violent disagreement) without wilting or getting fed up, you'll do fine.
214. joezan - 6/15/2001 8:43:50 AM
YC:
I never knew (or don't recall you're saying) that English is not your native language. Any errors I've ever noticed are no more greivous than those any native Anglo speaker/writer would make, imo.
If it was the Mote/Fray which so polished your skills, then that is indeed high praise.
215. Indiana Jones - 6/15/2001 8:46:19 AM
TT is up this morning.
Toenails: Not too concerned about that (defections the other way).
For a long time I went to TT and here, but when I decided to stop one or the other, it was TT.
The two advantages I see to TT are more people and the ability to create discussions. Otherwise, the Mote is superior IMO.
216. Indiana Jones - 6/15/2001 8:50:10 AM
Addendum: World Crossing's site seems very slow, but it looks to have all kinds of freedom in terms of being able to build what you want. From reading the FAQ, they prohibit anything that would constitute an R rating and want public fora to be G. That's pretty restrictive.
I think if World Crossing were busier it might be more of a threat to both TT and the Mote.
Of course TT is likely a goner anyway.
217. Indiana Jones - 6/15/2001 8:51:36 AM
To clarify what I said about World Crossing which upon re-reading seems contradictory, I mean that it has a lot of freedom in terms of anyone can host a forum and build something. But the "ratings system" OTOH is fairly restrictive.
218. RosettaStone - 6/15/2001 9:02:13 AM
Smart of you, IJ, to set up a thread in World Crossing for Mote. It should be the place where we go to get information when/if Mote crashes. Plus CalCal can post there, as opposed to TT where she's an outlaw.
It might be good to have it as an hot link somewhere here so that everyone can bookmark it.
219. Indiana Jones - 6/15/2001 10:03:03 AM
Stone: I do think it would be a good alternative for when the Mote is down.
220. sakonige - 6/15/2001 10:21:31 AM
Concerned about defections? For crying out loud.
221. sakonige - 6/15/2001 10:29:01 AM
I think if World Crossing were busier it might be more of a threat to both TT and the Mote.
A threat? In what way? They both supply the Mote with something to talk about and more people to talk to. Get a grip.
222. JudithAtHome - 6/15/2001 10:51:09 AM
I'm wondering if everyone is so comfortable at WorldC. they are staying there rather than going back to TT...of the threads I subscribe to in TV, only one is busy and by busy, I mean 2 or 3 posts.
223. JudithAtHome - 6/15/2001 10:52:17 AM
I guess that post proved Sakoniges point...
224. Indiana Jones - 6/15/2001 10:53:10 AM
sakonige: Get a grip on this one time.
Within the context of the discussion, threat as in a threat to draw participants away from one discussion and to another.
225. JudithAtHome - 6/15/2001 10:57:09 AM
IJ:
I understood what you meant but I think if anyone from here goes to TT, it is for specfic interests and that is sort of what I envisioned with my invitations to people from TT to come here...not to "recruit" or lure them into the "cult of Mote" but to provide another venue of interest.
226. glendajean - 6/15/2001 11:01:57 AM
If Salon were about to pull the plug on TT, I doubt if they would have bothered to bring it back up. Does anybody really think TT is in its last stages?
When Microsoft dumped the old Fray, they quit doing repairs on it for several months. There were promises of upgrades and re-designs, but nothing was done to improve what existed as the Fray. Then they pulled the plug.
227. JudithAtHome - 6/15/2001 11:07:13 AM
I have the feeling that they will cut it loose...not because they want to but because Salon will have to. It must be pretty costly and despite all the upbeat talk, I think they are still losing money.
TT is very loyal to its people but if they can no longer afford it, it will have to go. I think the PTB are pleased everyone stayed together and found temporary headquarters...maybe because they see the future and didn't want to see everyone cut off with no place to go.
228. Cellar Door - 6/15/2001 11:26:48 AM
Table Talk is back!
229. khaval alazman - 6/15/2001 11:36:25 AM
Here's the thing:
Talk about the iminent demise of TT has been going on now for around two years. During this time, people have been saying, "any time now". Still hasn't happened.
Am not saying it won't happen (I will not submit to that ogre, induction!), And I certainly claim no knowledge of the financial state of Salon or the economics of such an enterprise. B ut I really thinnk that the whole thing would have to go under (mag and all) beore TT goes. It is simply an integral component, and there are hundreds (thousands?) of Salon readers who would be distraught at TT's removal.
Surely Salon, in the precarious position it's in, canjnot afford to alienate such a massive reader base.
230. rubberducky - 6/15/2001 11:45:27 AM
Re: Message # 226, glendajean.
If Salon were about to pull the plug on TT, I doubt if they would have bothered to bring it back up. Does anybody really think TT is in its last stages?
i'm not sure if TT is on its last leg or not, but really, how do we know for sure that work was being done?
all of these outages (and i'll limit these comments to 2001) leave the place looking and behaving exactly as it did before. i'm skeptical that Salon is pumping too much more $$ (and that's hardware, software, bandwidth, etc) into it seeing as how they're still a million in the whole every month.
231. rubberducky - 6/15/2001 11:45:39 AM
'hole', not 'whole'
232. DJ JOE INC - 6/15/2001 11:55:13 AM
>) into it seeing as how they're still a million in the whole every month.
I could not imagine running any business like that- I enjoy Table Talk- and the Mote.
I do wonder if the shutdowns of Table Talk are a costcutting measure of a sort-
Judith I doubt that Table Talk will regain it's activity on a Friday- but if it is active this weekend it should be more active next workweek.
233. Cellar Door - 6/15/2001 12:10:51 PM
TT regaiuned its activity about a half hour ago.
WAKE UP!!!
234. Indiana Jones - 6/15/2001 12:14:29 PM
My opinion isn't that Salon will drop TT, but that TT will go when Salon goes.
And Salon is going to go--and I think sooner rather than later.
235. Shannon - 6/15/2001 12:18:35 PM
I agree with Indy.
I'm also not too inclined to jump back into TT full-force right now. Last time they had problems, they were up and down for a day or two, losing posts every time. I suspect I'm not the only one who's waiting to see if it's going to stay stable. I agree it will probably pick back up next week if things stay running steady all weekend.
236. don s. - 6/15/2001 12:19:55 PM
“From reading the FAQ, they prohibit anything that would constitute an R rating and want public fora to be G. That's pretty restrictive.”
Fuck that!
237. MaxMacks - 6/15/2001 12:38:17 PM
I agree with Indy and Shannon.
I miss Salon TT as it was when I first found it.
But after any number of insulting posts
from a certain number of Salooners who acted as if certain threads as they called the categories
were their very own territory I slowly and then faster began to leave the place and the too many people like the above.
238. RosettaStone - 6/15/2001 12:58:03 PM
I'm going to join TT again this weekend to get the TTers' juices flowing.
One should count each day a separate life.
239. JudithAtHome - 6/15/2001 1:03:01 PM
Khaval:
B ut I really thinnk that the whole thing would have to go under (mag and all) beore TT goes.
That is what I think will happen...it will all go, period...probably during another prolonged outage at TT.
240. JudithAtHome - 6/15/2001 1:03:32 PM
toys...sorry.
241. JudithAtHome - 6/15/2001 1:04:03 PM
????
242. glendajean - 6/15/2001 1:04:13 PM
toys
243. JudithAtHome - 6/15/2001 1:05:01 PM
If this doesn't work, I'll leave it for someone more adept than I...
244. JudithAtHome - 6/15/2001 1:05:27 PM
...and that would be you, GJ! Thanks!
245. CalGal - 6/15/2001 1:14:29 PM
It is simply an integral component, and there are hundreds (thousands?) of Salon readers who would be distraught at TT's removal.
TT's sole value to Salon is its clicks, but I can't for the life of me believe that the revenue it generates stands up to a CBA.
I wonder: does Salon hire all of its technical staff, or do they contract it out?
246. sakonige - 6/15/2001 1:22:15 PM
I'm sure they were talking about contractors when the TT staff communiques mentioned whipping the programmers who weren't meeting their estimates.
247. bettyx - 6/15/2001 1:23:40 PM
PsychProf, no, I am of The West, so, howdy! err, hi. Hey, Dusty, are you the same person as dusty? Hamsa, yes, but it seems that as the free public spaces on the web continue to disappear, it's a feeling we'll have to get used to.
As for Salon and TT, I'm blindly hoping for a miracle; the subscription thing, ad revenues, magic beans.
248. CalGal - 6/15/2001 1:29:27 PM
Sako,
That's what I thought, too. Which means that there should be a noticeable jump in their operating costs next quarter, if they break down to the level of technical and if, as they say, their techies were working constantly on it.
249. PelleNilsson - 6/15/2001 1:51:45 PM
YC
I have noticed that your English has become, let's say, more free-flowing. I would like to think that mine has as well since joining the Fray/Mote.
Don't worry about the accent. It's considered sexy, but you know that.
250. Toenails - 6/15/2001 2:43:09 PM
I took a first look at TT and it struck me as too big and cumbersome to deal with for the average schlub who's overaged and undertrained for manipulating a website.
I don't doubt I could eventually learn my way around it OK, but this place certainly seems more user-friendly.
251. RosettaStone - 6/15/2001 3:40:21 PM
IJ is already deleting posts from the Mote thread in World Crossing.
Not a good sign.
252. Indiana Jones - 6/15/2001 3:49:07 PM
It gets worse.
253. RosettaStone - 6/15/2001 3:51:19 PM
Plus, the host of the thread can edit other posters' comments to fit a format.
Or worse...
254. JudithAtHome - 6/15/2001 3:54:28 PM
Jeez, you have your own little thread over there and still you bitch...is there no pleasing you?
265. DJ JOE INC - 6/15/2001 4:52:23 PM
gosh what monkey biz is this? I am gonna switch party affiliations from fratboy kegger party to jailbait PJ party-just kidding.
266. JudithAtHome - 6/15/2001 4:54:57 PM
Joe, this sort of infantile stuff breaks out all the time...easy to ignore but we seldom can resist.
267. wabbit - 6/15/2001 5:19:53 PM
Post 109 has been deleted. Posts 255-264 are in the Inferno.
Sorry for the interruption.
268. DJ JOE INC - 6/15/2001 5:23:24 PM
yikes- how displeasing
269. glendajean - 6/15/2001 5:29:58 PM
Weep not for Rosie, DJ. It is always a good day for him when half the Mote posts are about him.
He is the Fredo Corleone of this family.
270. CalGal - 6/15/2001 6:17:20 PM
hahahahaha.
I always think of him as the arsonist in the Longest Yard, but that one's fun, too.
271. arkymalarky - 6/15/2001 7:47:26 PM
One should count each day a separate life.
Especially when one wakes up in a new world every morning.
I think of him as Eddie Haskill.
BTW, Eddie, I think your mother's calling you.
272. Cellar Door - 6/15/2001 9:47:54 PM
Actually I've always thpought of him as Moe Green.
273. vargasgirl - 6/16/2001 7:10:00 AM
So,fill me in. How and why does someone delete someone else's post.
On another note,never enjoyed Salon's TT. It seemed to be just too politically correct for my taste. I'm wondering now if this is routine across the boards.
I miss "Word".
274. joezan - 6/16/2001 7:14:05 AM
Vargasgirl:
Only thread hosts may delete or move posts - usually it happens when they're off-topic or violate the Rules of Engagement.
275. vargasgirl - 6/16/2001 7:42:15 AM
274: It seems to me,joezan, that a thread or topic naturally flows into many sub topics. Half the fun is to see where this may go.
Thanks for the information though.
276. iiibbb - 6/16/2001 8:31:38 AM
vargas
It has to be _really_ off topic... movement or deletion is rare despite what you've seen here.
for the most part only squabbles are moved where nothing is said but namecalling... and that's if it gets lengthy or intense. That kind of stuff is moved to "the inferno".
If politically correct bugs you, then you're in the right place. This place is anything but PC. You'd really have to be downright distasteful to violate anything here.
277. vargasgirl - 6/16/2001 9:21:59 AM
Yes,after reading the rules of engagement, I believe I've landed in the right place.
278. vargasgirl - 6/16/2001 9:30:53 AM
I'm still puzzled by the whole clock setting procedure.
Definitely user error.
279. vargasgirl - 6/16/2001 9:31:15 AM
I'm still puzzled by the whole clock setting procedure.
Definitely user error.
280. vargasgirl - 6/16/2001 9:32:11 AM
Dammit,I keep using my refresh key. Old habits die hard.
281. iiibbb - 6/16/2001 9:32:28 AM
it just makes it so the time stamps will match the clock on your computer is all
282. iiibbb - 6/16/2001 9:33:14 AM
what time zone are you? EST enter -5
283. vargasgirl - 6/16/2001 9:33:55 AM
How do I do this?
Time,time,it must be the correct time.
284. iiibbb - 6/16/2001 9:36:11 AM
from main menu... find link on upper left under "Mote Links" that says "Member Profile" click that...
there's a field for setting time zone. EST is '-5'
285. vargasgirl - 6/16/2001 9:36:21 AM
This is a test. For the next millisecond this poster will be performing a test. If this had been a real posting emergency you would have heard a steady stream of explicatives.
286. vargasgirl - 6/16/2001 9:37:25 AM
I changes it to 5 and still it's the wrong time. It should be 9:39 am.
287. iiibbb - 6/16/2001 9:40:24 AM
minus 5
288. iiibbb - 6/16/2001 9:40:48 AM
did you save changes too?... then reload the website?
289. vargasgirl - 6/16/2001 9:44:19 AM
I'll do that now.
You're nice.
290. vargasgirl - 6/16/2001 9:45:27 AM
test,test,test.
291. vargasgirl - 6/16/2001 9:45:57 AM
woohoo!
292. iiibbb - 6/16/2001 9:48:59 AM
There used to be a 'try out the mote' thread for testing stuff... I don't know what happened to it.
293. Ms. No - 6/16/2001 9:50:45 AM
It's still there. It's in the butter bar on the home page on the right hand side where the FAQ, Archives and RoE are.
294. Ms. No - 6/16/2001 9:51:13 AM
It's called HTML scratchpad
295. iiibbb - 6/16/2001 9:53:02 AM
ahh... found it... it's the "html scratchpad" in the same upper left menu on the main page. You can go there to play with formatting before you post in an actual thread.
If you want to mess with changing fonts or tables or links or whatever
there is also the "HTML Hints" link below the posting window. where you cal learn to do things like reference certain Message # 270's
296. vargasgirl - 6/16/2001 9:57:21 AM
HTML I have a handle on,it wa the clock thing that got me. Doh!
297. iiibbb - 6/16/2001 10:06:47 AM
well... this site does employ VCR style buttons
298. Shannon - 6/18/2001 9:41:24 AM
Hey, is TT down again, or is it just me?
299. Laura C - 6/18/2001 9:51:34 AM
It's been down for about six hours (according to UK posters). No status message that I can find.
300. Dusty - 6/18/2001 10:09:29 AM
Yep, seriously down. Just get an error, not even their now familiar error message page.
301. Cellar Door - 6/18/2001 10:12:06 AM
Back to "World Crossing" again!
302. Cellar Door - 6/18/2001 10:15:22 AM
Meanwhile over in "USA Today" the Salonistas manage a few brave smiles -- and in the case of Talbot a quasi-diabolical chuckle, to judge from the pic. These days he less resembles his father than he does Dad's Plan 9 From Outer Space co-star Dudley Manlove.
303. CalGal - 6/18/2001 10:35:25 AM
Joe Beason has nicely put the Mote in his intro page to the TT Refuge.
304. CalGal - 6/18/2001 10:40:08 AM
Indy, check out what he did. I think that's something you can do on your front page as well. I changed the Mote FAQs to point people there.
305. Indiana Jones - 6/18/2001 10:44:23 AM
Cal: I already have a link to the Mote on my front page. Is there something else you suggest? Or do you think it's not noticeable enough as is?
306. CalGal - 6/18/2001 11:06:40 AM
No, the link is nice. I was thinking more of all the Intro stuff he wrote. You could say that the Mote is a user-run forum, this is our home away from home, here's a FAQ about us, whatever.
307. CalGal - 6/18/2001 11:09:07 AM
If you note, your link is in one of the actual threads--Joe's got the intro stuff on the front page of the forum. So anyone just clicking on it wouldn't only see the threads, they would see "Welcome to the Mote's Home away from Home. The Mote is a.....blah blah blah".
308. Indiana Jones - 6/18/2001 11:17:59 AM
Cal: I have it set up so that the link appears on every page in the upper left. I wish the graphic could be linked because that's more noticeable, but apparently it cannot.
But I'll put some text in along the lines of what you have in post 307.
309. Dusty - 6/18/2001 11:22:35 AM
I see that SALN is appealing the delisting order. Is this just the typical lawyerly foot-dragging? What recourse could they have?
I also don't understand their proposed remedy. They are talking about a reverse stock split, which would solve the minimum stock price limit, but I believe there is also a minimum capitalization requirement. Monkeying with the stock price isn't going to solve that problem.
How on earth are they going to avoid delisting?
310. JudithAtHome - 6/18/2001 11:24:06 AM
What is the cost of a share today?
311. rubberducky - 6/18/2001 11:28:02 AM
look between your couch cushions
312. Indiana Jones - 6/18/2001 11:31:23 AM
I'm getting a 404 on the Mote FAQ, Cal.
313. JudithAtHome - 6/18/2001 11:31:44 AM
Is it really $.30 a share?
314. Laura C - 6/18/2001 11:32:47 AM
$.26, to be precise.
315. Indiana Jones - 6/18/2001 11:35:18 AM
I'll link the FAQ in when it's working, but for now it's just pointing to the site (which I'd like to fix because that's three links to the site on the front page).
316. CalGal - 6/18/2001 11:40:08 AM
Indy,
Yes, I just alerted Alistair to that--I think it got missed in the server move. In the short term, you can use the dev link, which has the same info.
317. Jean B. - 6/18/2001 2:13:25 PM
Table Talk says they hope to be up and running as soon as they get the current problem solved. Whatever that means!
I guess my recent $30 subscription wasn't enough to pull them out of the doldrums!
318. iiibbb - 6/18/2001 2:28:40 PM
You have to pay to use that site?
319. Shannon - 6/18/2001 2:34:16 PM
Salon has a "premium" option that they charge for. Apparently they can see stuff that the rest of us can't.
320. mean marlene - 6/18/2001 2:36:55 PM
Supposedly neat stuff like coverage of reality TV shows like Chains of Love and Bushed! (smart assed coverage of George W).
321. Raskolnikov - 6/18/2001 2:40:05 PM
This doesn't bode well for internet-only content providers.
Anyone know how profitable the web sites have been for print media bastions who tend to use the web for archival purposes? The New York Times and The Economist spring to mind as the examples I use most often.
322. JudithAtHome - 6/18/2001 2:40:30 PM
Oh boy, sign me up! No umbrella, though....?
323. CalGal - 6/18/2001 2:43:00 PM
Rask,
I recently read about all these sites. CNN did a major cutback on their website staff last year, and I'm nearly sure that the Times site isn't profitable. It was a Howard Kurtz article, I think.
324. PsychProf - 6/18/2001 2:44:54 PM
I needed such an umbrella at TT when I was defending CalGal in "her" thread at TT after "The Banning"...hello Mean Marlene...I remember in that thread when you basically told me to butt out...I did, as I had said what I wanted to...any TTer's want to dance to "three steps" by Lenyrd Skynyrd?
325. mean marlene - 6/18/2001 2:54:42 PM
I don't remember telling you that, but I was pretty angry that they killed my neutral thread with the catchy stealth title and kept the one with her name in it. It might also have been a febble attempt to keep that Mike person who was especially crappy with the nay-nays about her booting from starting up again. He really made an ass out of himself.
326. JudithAtHome - 6/18/2001 2:55:14 PM
Okay, one of the perks of paying your $30 to Salon is you can download a print version of the mag...hello? If I wanted to have MORE printed matter laying around here, I'd renew all those magazine subscriptions I let expire because now I can read them on the Net.
327. mean marlene - 6/18/2001 2:56:52 PM
One of the reasons I didn't subscribe was that they did not offer a weekly option. No way am I going to pay 30 bucks a year for something that may not last until August.
328. PsychProf - 6/18/2001 2:58:04 PM
MM...no problem...it was just done is such a way, as I recall, to indicate we were previous acquaintances.
329. Laura C - 6/18/2001 3:42:08 PM
mm - I still think it was wrong of them to kill the meta-thread, which -gasp! - actually had discussion of some other issues.
TT is back up.
330. CalGal - 6/18/2001 3:47:36 PM
But this way my name lives on in infamy.
331. Laura C - 6/18/2001 3:54:03 PM
As long as Salon does.
332. Cellar Door - 6/18/2001 4:37:59 PM
TT is back again!
333. rubberducky - 6/19/2001 11:20:02 AM
interesting article posted in the 'Salon Premium' thread that pretty much says what we all know to be true:
We're going to be even more aggressive about playing Salon Premium," [Talbot] said. "It's not going to be a static group of editorial items like 'Bushed!' that's there now."
As more of Salon's content is pushed only to subscribers, Talbot thinks people will say, "Hey -- some of the best stuff is behind the gate now. I should sign up."
As early as next year, "the model that we have now will be flipped around," Talbot said. "Most of the stuff will be by subscription. There is even a school of thought within Salon management that we should go there sooner. It would be a shock to the system and a huge risk, but if we were to shut the gates entirely, even this year we could probably get at the very least ... 300,000 people to sign up. At $30 a piece, that's $9 million, which is really close to break-even."
the real entertainment, however, is at the end of the article on the second page:
When the subscription was unveiled, Talbot likened it to the model used in public radio, where people pay to support a service without which they know the world would be somehow less varied, less informed, less fun.
Talbot said his analogy has never been more true than it is now, with other media becoming ever more consolidated and corporate; he insists that while the big media companies might be able to stay free on the Web, "scrappier sites like Salon have to start getting some of that money from their readers."
"The Salons of the world are saying the things that nobody else is saying. So if the Salons of the world disappear, woe to American democracy," he said.
woe indeed.
334. JudithAtHome - 6/19/2001 11:25:33 AM
What a fathead...
335. JudithAtHome - 6/19/2001 11:27:10 AM
I mean, this guy is responsible for driving Salon into bankruptcy and he's worried about American democracy? He needs to shut up and go to business school...
Give me a break.
336. Jean B. - 6/19/2001 12:28:00 PM
I subscribed because I didn't want to see Salon and Table Talk go under. I figured that if most of the TT people subscribed, it would help keep it up and running. However, if Salon does go under, I don't think that it will be the end of the world as we know it! So far I haven't seen any personal benefit because I sent them $30. If the policy changes later this year, so that only subscribers can use TT, well, I'm that much ahead.
337. Jamie R - 6/19/2001 12:28:01 PM
Jeez what a weenie. Why do so many people twist themselves into a pretzel to avoid the straight forward idea that people should expect to pay for services rendered?
"Yeah we're charging. You're reading it 'aint you?" Talbot glared at the audience belligerently. "This is not a lending library. This is not freakin' PBS. We expect to make some scratch on this baby."
Not, of course, that they're likely to make any money with $30 subscriptions one way or the other, but I'd be more likely to pay with the latter approach.
338. CalGal - 6/19/2001 12:29:45 PM
Ha, ha.
"How the hell else can I maintain my quarter million a year salary if you don't pony up?"
339. don s. - 6/19/2001 12:30:44 PM
“I mean, this guy is responsible for driving Salon into bankruptcy and he's worried about American democracy?”
Forgive me for coming in late, Judith, but I wasn't aware that Talbot was personally responsible for driving Salon into bankruptcy. Can you give me a quick gloss on the subject?
340. don s. - 6/19/2001 12:31:33 PM
I mean, to hear Rosella Stone tell it, the people responsible for Salon's poor financial position are the Table Talk moderators who deleted his threads.
341. bubbaette - 6/19/2001 12:57:54 PM
To hear Rosie tell it, the Mote inner cabal will be vacationing on Maui this winter from the interest earned on contributions to start this site.
By-the-way, do you have your reservations yet?
342. don s. - 6/19/2001 1:39:21 PM
Do we HAVE to go to Maui again this year? What happened to my Rio de Janeiro idea?
343. Laura C - 6/19/2001 1:42:38 PM
"The Mote inner cabal went to Maui, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
344. PelleNilsson - 6/19/2001 1:51:28 PM
Nothing is finally decided. Suggestions are entertained (and routinely scrapped).
345. JudithAtHome - 6/19/2001 4:08:30 PM
Pardon ME, Don, but I thought Talbot ran the show at Salon? Isn't he responsible for paying the people who write for Salon...setting the salaries for them, I mean? Is he not making a shitload of money himself and don't his cohorts get paid a huge amount of money for working there?
I don't know about you but if I published a magazine and it continously lost more money than it made, I would think I was responsible for it's failure. Maybe you know more about business than I; highly possible. But I thought the idea of a business was to make money for those involved?
Maybe he didn't personally drive the bus to bankruptcy court but he didn't stop at all the crossings, either.
346. ScottLoar - 6/19/2001 4:15:12 PM
I am thoroughly disgusted by managers who lose money and blame their mismanagement on excuses. Anyone can lose money, that's easy; making money is the hard part.
347. CalGal - 6/19/2001 4:24:20 PM
Talbot's salary is all the proof I need that he's a lot of the blame. $226K a year for the head of a small internet magazine? Dude, you're content, not technology.
348. PsychProf - 6/19/2001 4:26:24 PM
Mote managers do not lose money.
349. don s. - 6/19/2001 4:53:17 PM
Judith, I wasn't trying to get your hackles up; I know you're not a knee-jerk TT/Salon hater like others here. Salon.com doesn't have financial officers? I really don't know how these things work. Sure, if Talbot is at the top of the org chart, he's certainly ultimately responsible. ($226K is only an apporpriate annual income for ... what ... Silicon Valley consultants?)
I just thought the snippy response to his rah-rah quotes about his magazine were facile and lame. As publisher doesn't he also have a responsibility to promote?
350. CalGal - 6/19/2001 4:59:48 PM
($226K is only an apporpriate annual income for ... what ... Silicon Valley consultants?
It's appropriate for anyone not living off of someone else's money. But my point was that he was paying himself tech prices when he's actually a publisher. Small magazines don't generally pay their publishers that much, I'm thinking.
351. rubberducky - 6/19/2001 5:03:07 PM
don s.:
who here is a 'knee-jerk TT/Salon hater'?
knee-jerk sneerer perhaps.
please do share your keen insight here.
352. don s. - 6/19/2001 5:05:49 PM
Whenever the word "facile" enters the conversation, LuckyDucky can't be far away.
353. PsychProf - 6/19/2001 5:09:13 PM
Back on the Fray "facile" was a legit put down, as I found out. TT has some fine baseball fans, and I enjoy posting with them.
354. rubberducky - 6/19/2001 5:10:42 PM
yes, that’s the level of analysis i’ve come to expect from you, don s.
355. don s. - 6/19/2001 5:23:30 PM
Um, likewise.
356. JudithAtHome - 6/19/2001 5:25:55 PM
I just thought the snippy response to his rah-rah quotes about his magazine were facile and lame. As publisher doesn't he also have a responsibility to promote?
Maybe I've been reading the TT Salon Premium thread too long...people there repeatedly ask for straight answers and all they get from him and his assistants are facile and lame responses. Sure, he can promote all he wants; he can try anything to stop the outflow of money he has been perfectly happy with thus far. But when articles in reputable publications are saying the place was run like a kindergarten, maybe someone ought to step up and admit ineptitude or at the very least short sightedness. This didn't just happen overnight, you know.
357. don s. - 6/19/2001 5:33:49 PM
“This didn't just happen overnight, you know.”
Sure. But of course, the Internet business model has been taking hits all over the Web, not just at Salon.
Otherwise I can't disagree with anything you've written. Just wanted to know what your perspective was. (To the uninitiated — i.e., me — the slam seemed to come out of left field.) Thanks for your response.
358. JudithAtHome - 6/19/2001 5:39:19 PM
Don:
I guess it did seem rather gratutious, at that. But I've been reading that Premium thread in TT since it started and it just seems to me they are leading everyone on in a similar way that Slate did when they kept promising upgrades, etc. before they effectively kicked us out...I realize the situations are dissimilar but it feels the same, regardless.
The people who have subscribed to Salon are showing such support and good will and I just have this nagging feeling their hope is misplaced. No one is being completely honest with them, I feel, but maybe no one can be...they just don't know what will happen.
359. PsychProf - 6/19/2001 5:40:24 PM
Who is this Don S. anyways.
360. don s. - 6/19/2001 5:43:07 PM
PsychProf, never you mind.
361. don s. - 6/19/2001 5:45:01 PM
Judith, I wanted to send in my $30 when Salon first announced the "Premium" program (mainly for the dirty pictures, but that's beside the point). But, like everyone else, I'm spooked.
And like others have said here, we don't even get an umbrella (or two … ahem) as a reward for our faith.
362. pogie - 6/19/2001 5:48:21 PM
A chick in the webcrossing threads was suggesting that the tabletalk db might well be sold when salon goes belly up. which means people there would practically do better to forget flinging money at salon for premium and save pennies as a group or groups to buy tabletalk itself off salon and carve it up to maintain their various communities.
363. JudithAtHome - 6/19/2001 5:49:50 PM
Well, I subscribed to Slate for a year and then I renewed about a month before the year was up...shortly thereafter, they announced they were kicking us out and I got angry and quit. They said I would be getting my subscription costs back but of course, I never did.
It left a bad taste in my mouth for subscriptions to on-line magazines...
364. CalGal - 6/19/2001 5:50:14 PM
I can't see how it would be sold, or for how much. Who would buy it?
365. JudithAtHome - 6/19/2001 5:51:35 PM
All the people who are frantic it will close down?
366. CalGal - 6/19/2001 5:52:53 PM
I was banned, so they can't have my money (heh).
But even if I hadn't been banned, I wouldn't have ponied up. I didn't mind paying for Slate because they said hey, free ride's over, time to charge. I figured it was silly to fuss about paying what amounts to a week's worth of lattes, so why not?
But Salon's got that needy PBS thing going. If they're going to present themselves as a charity case, then I have to assess them on that basis--and I never give to PBS.
367. pogie - 6/19/2001 5:53:47 PM
I'd figure only tabletalkers would want it, heh, so they should get together and make salon an offer to ensure their chances of preserving it. of course, this assumes a significant number of people would be willing to pool resources for a project that took four fulltime employees to maintain. it just seems like the most frantic denizens should try that tack instead of buying 2 year premium subscriptions.
368. CalGal - 6/19/2001 5:54:30 PM
Judith--paying for the database is one thing. Then you have to pay for a server and a network. And why do all of that when there's worldcrossing for free?
Of course, how long will worldcrossing be around?
369. JudithAtHome - 6/19/2001 5:57:17 PM
At the rate some of those TTers post on WorldCrossing, it might not be free for long...
370. don s. - 6/19/2001 5:57:46 PM
This just in....
Sign Up Now for Worldcrossing PREMIUM!
371. JudithAtHome - 6/19/2001 5:59:24 PM
hahahha!!!
372. PsychProf - 6/19/2001 5:59:45 PM
Premium means no Stone.
373. JudithAtHome - 6/19/2001 6:01:27 PM
Oh hey...I'd pay for that!
374. don s. - 6/19/2001 6:14:37 PM
Let's take up a collection.
375. mean marlene - 6/20/2001 10:58:23 AM
I would imagine the real email address lists that could be generated would be worth something to direct marketers- especially if they were able to sort out what areas posters mainly hung out in.
376. JudithAtHome - 6/20/2001 11:08:11 AM
According to the Salon Premium thread, they will never sell those lists. Of course, reality might intrude making liars of the 4 people who swear this...they are only telling people what they've been told.
377. mean marlene - 6/20/2001 12:59:11 PM
But any company that bought TT would be able to get that list and do with it what they wanted. I'm sure that 4 people who swear this are naive enough to beleive that if TT was sold that the buyer would of course be upstanding and decent and not generate, use or sell any lists.
378. JudithAtHome - 6/20/2001 1:06:58 PM
Oh sure...I agree with you completely.
I'm sure they mean well but there's nothing they could do to prevent it; you're right. Surely the people posting there realize this?
379. mean marlene - 6/20/2001 1:22:45 PM
Maybe, but I am praying that Mycleo.com or Asadvertisedontv.com doesn't buy them.
380. CalGal - 6/21/2001 9:35:58 PM
I posted this in Suggestions but it is probably more appropriate here--Salon doesn't allow automatic id creations with AOL? You have to write them directly.
All thanks to Rosie, I guess.
381. Indiana Jones - 6/22/2001 8:38:22 AM
andy and Stone aren't the same people. I know quite a bit about real-life andy and knew him before I ever encountered Stone. He posts here as bbb, however, so it would be a privacy violation to reveal any of the details.
Stone didn't bring this about by himself. In addition to andy, the TTer formerly known as Ryan Hokanson and another Motier named Simba (known on TT as Bart and a bazillion other names) have all been creating IDs serially for at least two years now. There may be one other particularly abusive serial pseud (incarnations of Steve Amasfer?), but I've always assumed it was Hokansun. I'd say andy has proved even more pernicious than our Stone. For some reason TT hasn't been able to catch the latest incarnation of Bart.
Just for the record, I am none of the above people, although cazart has accused me of being either andy or Bart.
I think the AOL business is pretty funny, too. It's pretty sad this has been going on for so long with so many hours put into it by Salon and this is still the best they could come up with--especially given that to my knowledge none of the above are hacker types, just persistent.
382. Indiana Jones - 6/22/2001 8:46:35 AM
Stone--Motiers know him well enough to recognize him, I think.
andy--Writing style is indicative of someone who uses English as a second language. Loves blind links, big excerpts from news stories, and comedy bits (like pretend dialogues between political figures).
Bart--Usually in the company of andy. Will tend to start out insisting upon detailed discussion, ending in irate flaming. Big NRA supporter. Posts a lot of one liners and is more interested in personalities and conflict really than the issues.
Ryan Hokanson--Lots of flames. Politically, supports communism and so is equally likely to attack right and left. Few are radical enough for him. Ironically, I don't recall that he has ever flamed me.
The other serial, which could be Hokanson, uses gender attacks. He loves to bash the sysops as "cunts," etc. This pseud also brags about technical expertise and that the useless "bints" will never be able to keep him out.
383. Indiana Jones - 6/22/2001 8:49:48 AM
Incidentally, Stone almost always tests his IDs in the Mote thread. andy and Bart are always in "Home of the Free" and "Smoke-Filled Room" in Politics.
Which makes the inability to control them even more laughable.
384. rubberducky - 6/26/2001 11:30:24 AM
and the begging continues... 
385. CalGal - 6/26/2001 12:09:49 PM
That's just bizarre.
386. JudithAtHome - 6/26/2001 12:19:22 PM
Ducks...where'd you find that, anyhow? Was it in SALON??
387. rubberducky - 6/26/2001 12:21:51 PM
yeah, J@H, it is on their main page
they seem to have a weekly why-you-should-give-Salon-$30 link that is just under the main daily picture.
388. rubberducky - 6/26/2001 12:22:25 PM
well, daily picture and links
389. JudithAtHome - 6/26/2001 12:31:25 PM
That seals it for me...anyone threatening a Boston pug is too low for words!
390. bubbaette - 6/26/2001 12:44:52 PM
National Lampoon did it first.
391. JudithAtHome - 6/26/2001 2:51:40 PM
What is that weird new thread in the Mote Annex? Is it a joke or is it real?
392. Indiana Jones - 6/26/2001 2:56:59 PM
Judith: I think that person spams the public discussions from time-to-time. I've had to delete it once before.
393. rubberducky - 6/27/2001 2:05:14 PM
so... will any motie admit to subscribing to Salon?
394. CalGal - 6/27/2001 2:16:53 PM
I imagine some of the mwt folks did. I didn't; I gave at Slate. Once is enough.
395. rubberducky - 6/27/2001 2:24:03 PM
well i didn't and wouldn't
396. JudithAtHome - 6/27/2001 3:07:31 PM
dittos, ducks...or is it dottoes?
397. JudithAtHome - 6/27/2001 3:08:02 PM
Jeez...is it dittoes? Pain meds.
398. don s. - 6/27/2001 4:04:18 PM
well i didn't and wouldn't
Thanks for clearing that up!
399. don s. - 6/27/2001 4:09:14 PM
dittos, ...or is it dottoes?
My 6th-grade teacher taught me that only the plurals of musical words ending in "o" don't have the "e".
Thus:
pianos, obbligatos, autos
dittoes, pimentoes
etc.
400. HollyW - 6/27/2001 10:46:23 PM
Well, let it go on record that I have given not a cent to Salon.com, and surely never will. Likening themselves to PBS...please.
401. JudithAtHome - 6/27/2001 10:49:08 PM
Thanks, don s.
I am saved from Quayleitude.
402. Åse - 6/27/2001 10:58:07 PM
Nope, no money, much too cheap.
It's the Swede in me I tell ya. I'm entitled to my internet FREEEEEEEEEEE
403. HollyW - 6/27/2001 11:02:17 PM
Yeah, really, I mean, if they want cash from me, they should be a print medium, so I can read their offerings leisurely on the john. Am I right or am I right?
404. Shannon - 6/27/2001 11:38:03 PM
What, you don't have a modem in the john?
405. HollyW - 6/27/2001 11:51:59 PM
Oh, er, of course I do, it's just that, it tends to fall into the sink. Bad design, bad design... we're getting a contractor in to fix it, of course...
406. Åse - 6/28/2001 12:32:07 AM
Hey, if I pay to read, I want a piece of reconstituted tree to pile up next to the bed, schlepp around thu two or three moves before usong it to soak up cat pee.
407. pogie - 6/28/2001 12:37:31 AM
If their content was as fab as the economist, i'd toss them some pennies. but the time when most of salon's writing was pretty ok was long, long ago, heh.
408. vonKreedon - 6/28/2001 1:38:54 AM
Microsoft over the last year and a half installed wireless networking in all of the Redmond buildings. Helpdesk has been tracking down dead spots in the buildings, including some specific stalls in the restrooms!
409. PelleNilsson - 6/28/2001 7:13:15 AM
I subscribe to some threads in TT International. Since the outage the place has become almost devoid of posters.
410. racehorse - 6/29/2001 2:44:53 PM
Is TT down?
411. JudithAtHome - 6/29/2001 2:45:41 PM
Maybe a little depressed...
412. racehorse - 6/29/2001 3:23:01 PM
Looks like it's working for me now.
413. RosettaStone - 7/3/2001 6:49:28 PM
dusty: Regarding your a.m. question to me (in the American Politics thread) on where I got the Salon readership #s (vs. the 3.6 million that Salon uses), the numbers comes from Jupiter Media which puts the readership at a considerably lower figure, 1 million a month. MS's Slate uses Jupiter Media for its readership research.
Salon and the decay of American liberal journalism
I remember you stating that you were thinking of buying lots of Salon.com stock last winter when it was about.80 a share. I also remember counseling you not to.
414. Cellar Door - 7/3/2001 6:57:07 PM
Never knew you had such an interest in Socialism, Rosie.
Oh I forgot -- you're a National Socialist.
415. dusty - 7/3/2001 6:57:44 PM
RosettaStone
I think your memory is a bit faulty.
I was considering buying it at $.30 a share. True, it is below that now. One option was just to buy a nominal number of shares so I would officially be a stockholder. If I had done that, I would be poorer by all of $12.
Alternatively, I wanted to see if there was interest to form a consortium to buy it out. But that was mostly idle speculation.
Interestingly, with the share price now at $.18, it is below the level that Talbot gets his shares. He probably will cut back on his buying, which can't be good for the price.
416. dusty - 7/3/2001 7:04:31 PM
RosettaStone
I just read your link.
What a hoot!
The World Socialists are looking down their nose at Salon!
They call it "increasingly right-wing".
Too precious.
417. RosettaStone - 7/3/2001 7:11:54 PM
Dusty: The best thread in Salon is in the tech folder called "Salon Laid Bare".
A poster by the name of Michael Robinson is very into Salon's finances.
418. CalGal - 7/3/2001 10:03:37 PM
Dusty,
I just checked the policies thread at TT--they deleted an entire thread, just because of a recent argument? On the grounds that a banned poster posted there?
Or did I miss something?
419. don s. - 7/3/2001 10:13:33 PM
Glad to see CG is still monitoring the situation.
420. CalGal - 7/3/2001 10:26:05 PM
Surely you can come up with a more original response? You used that one last week.
421. don s. - 7/3/2001 10:32:53 PM
Keep up the good work.
422. RosettaStone - 7/3/2001 11:36:14 PM
From what I can figure out (not much because I don't read the WH or POLITICS folders anymore in TT) is that Mary Beth/Lizzy Nolan deleted the lone-freeper thread there (with thousands of posts in it) because Andy posted in it and others welcomed him.
Sounds desperate.
Andy is still able to get in daily (maybe hourly) with new IDs/monikers.
Clearly the new strategy of the TT moderators is to destroy any thread that he posts in.
Let's hope he doesn't post in the Mote Cafe, eh?
423. Indiana Jones - 7/4/2001 8:40:38 PM
Glad to see CG is still monitoring the situation.
Glad to see you're still monitoring CalGal.
TT "policy" is becoming more bizarre by the minute, though I think it's probably further evidence of the company's death throes.
Mary Beth
We will not tolerate topics invovling users who continue to post after expulsion, nor will we tolerate members who encourage them.
After two years of andy, Bart, Stone, et al, the response the Salon staff has now evolved:
- Screen AOL and MSN users.
- Eliminate threads where these folks post.
- Threaten anyone who "encourages" these miscreants.
There are so many Heller-like absurdities in this situation that I can't list them all. It's also amazing the lengths and effort people will go to in order to avoid work. (That is, for the past two years TT staff have said most solutions to this problem involve too much work, yet they have to have devoted many hours to it by now, and achieved very little.) BTW, the deleted Home of the Free thread was the busiest thread in Politics--except for possibly Gay Politics.
Personally, I think what sparked this latest crackdown is that Salon staff deleted a liberal thread called "Conservative = Mental Illness" and had to sop the left-leaning majority, who were unused to that kind of treatment. dusty may know more about that because I gather he was posting in that thread.
424. RosettaStone - 7/5/2001 10:24:50 AM
With due respect to dusty (Publius Redux), the only person making sense in Salon Central is the Canadian liberal Doug Goddard.
He's registered here as Goddard. When TT crashes, let's not let him get away.
429. CalGal - 7/5/2001 4:13:23 PM
Indy,
Add to the Heller list the fact that these admins have lasted through some three layoffs now, while writers (you know, the ones who produce content?) haven't evaded the axe.
430. CalGal - 7/5/2001 4:14:04 PM
Wrong thread for Rosie. Can we ban him again?
431. Ms. No - 7/5/2001 4:14:45 PM
Missing posts moved to Inferno.
437. CalGal - 7/5/2001 4:24:25 PM
MsNo,
I would point out that my one post to Indy was entirely on topic. Can I assume it was a group move and repost it, or was there something problematic that I missed?
438. CalGal - 7/5/2001 4:26:06 PM
Whoa. I don't know why, but I thought I was in the Inferno. Um. Never mind.
439. Ms. No - 7/5/2001 4:28:50 PM
No problemo.
440. Indiana Jones - 7/12/2001 9:10:49 AM
Saw this posted on Salon w/out attribution:
Ambitious 24-Year-Old Pushes Plan to Buy Salon and Turn It Into a Clearinghouse for Other Publications
When your stock price hits 13 cents, you'd be surprised who comes out of the woodwork with big plans. Bhu Srinivasan, ex-CEO of ThinkView and a veteran of Infospace, wants to slash the staff and substitute high-brow syndicated material. by Greg Lindsay
Wednesday, July 11 06:02 P.M.
Facing a cash crunch, probable Nasdaq delisting and a stock price which values the entire company at under $2 million, Salon Media Group, Inc. -- the renamed parent of Salon.com -- would appear to have all the ingredients needed for a takeover attempt done on the fly. As it happens, one arrived last week from doppelganger corporation Salon Holdings LLC -- a one-man shell company that would buy Salon, fire the majority of the 37-member editorial staff and replace them with syndicated articles from magazines like the Atlantic Monthly and the New Yorker. Behind the bid is Bhu Srinivasan, the 24-year-old former CEO of ThinkView Inc., a syndication software maker he founded in 1999 and ran until its closure last month. Also a veteran of syndicator Infospace Inc., he is using this takeover attempt as an opening fanfare for his other new company, a Web host and service provider for magazine publishers named Effidia. (The name itself is a blend of ''efficient media.'')
'It sounds cold,' a potential Salon.com investor says of his offer, 'but what's colder? To be dogmatic and have an inefficient operation that doesn't make money?'
Srinivasan says his plans for Salon entail slashing costs through wholesale lay-offs, and then capitalizing on the brand and traffic (now 3.5 million unique visitors per month) to drive advertising revenue from syndicated content.
441. Dusty - 7/12/2001 9:43:10 AM
Indiana Jones
Interesting, but has he figured out how to get around the poison pills? Not to mention that less than 50% of the stock is avaialable. Hard to get control of a company when 6.7 million of the 14.2 million shares are owned by insiders (unless you are in bed with one of the insiders).
442. Indiana Jones - 7/12/2001 9:45:16 AM
Dusty:
Trivial considerations when you are a 24-year-old business "veteran."
443. Laura C - 7/12/2001 9:54:13 AM
It's an inside.com article. He claims with cost cuts he can make money even if readership shrinks to 1.5 million.
My favorite line:
Srinivasan stresses that while his offer is legitimate it also functions as a thought experiment.
444. rubberducky - 7/12/2001 9:57:22 AM
i wonder if he'd keep the sinkhole that is TT?
445. Indiana Jones - 7/12/2001 10:02:17 AM
Thanks for the link, Laura.
446. JudithAtHome - 7/12/2001 11:42:23 AM
How would he get permission from those other magazines to run their stuff?
447. Indiana Jones - 7/12/2001 11:49:41 AM
Apparently he's not having much luck doing so.
448. JudithAtHome - 7/20/2001 1:06:04 PM
I think TT is down....
449. rubberducky - 7/20/2001 1:45:15 PM
t'was...
it's up now, however
450. rubberducky - 7/23/2001 10:11:23 AM
tipped off by a post in the 'premium' thread, it seems Salon is moving more content to the subscriber-only model. the lead article is only a teaser and you must subscribe to see the rest.
this isn't even that great an article, so i'm a little perplexed why they are using their lead story as a lure into their subscription base.
this is a very bad idea, imho. one that makes them look even more desperate.
451. JudithAtHome - 7/24/2001 3:55:32 PM
Just read in TT that Elizabeth Nolan has been laid off....Rosie will surely take the credit for her demise.
452. CalGal - 7/24/2001 3:57:39 PM
Wow. I thought she was more senior to Ann Rubin?
453. glendajean - 7/24/2001 3:59:21 PM
Is she the Mary Beth?
454. JudithAtHome - 7/24/2001 4:02:03 PM
All I read was "Elizabeth Nolan and other staffers"...doesn't sound altogether promising, does it?
455. CalGal - 7/24/2001 4:08:51 PM
No, Mary Beth is Mary Beth. Elizabeth was supposed to do database work. Not DBA work, but just keeping user information updated. They have always overstaffed TT.
456. mgleason - 7/24/2001 4:29:38 PM
TT will be subscription-only in two weeks, via membership in the Well.
457. fuzzbox - 7/24/2001 4:34:29 PM
They'd like your money... 'just soes we can debunk the naysayers'...
How transparent, but many lunk-heads will bite. Chomp!
Let's all rally round the milquetoast liberal rag!
458. JudithAtHome - 7/24/2001 4:38:08 PM
I just bid them adieu...oh, and Ann Rubin was let go, also.
459. JudithAtHome - 7/24/2001 4:39:46 PM
"Table Talk Town Meeting"
"We're going to be nicer to those who pledged MORE than $30 for Salon Premium...."
Nice, huh? They're done; turn off the toaster.
460. ElliottRW - 7/24/2001 4:40:32 PM
I find Table Talk to be a bit bewildering. So many folders, so many threads. It never seems to be worth the investment of time and effort to become engaged in a discussion, so I've never posted.
I am interested, mgleason, to know why membership in table talk will be conditioned on membership in the Well. I thought the Well was just an old San Francisco area ISP.
461. mgleason - 7/24/2001 4:44:38 PM
Salon owns the Well; they'll be using its billing system. Currently two levels of membership exist: $10 and $15 per month.
462. mgleason - 7/24/2001 4:47:24 PM
But now they've posted this, with all the details.
463. arkymalarky - 7/24/2001 4:48:34 PM
I wondered when that was going to happen. Wonder how it will affect us.
464. JudithAtHome - 7/24/2001 4:53:23 PM
Probably not at all.
465. fuzzbox - 7/24/2001 4:53:39 PM
It was fascinating and kind of sad to watch them destroy themselves to the point where...
Has TableTalk become a cesspool of like-minded individuals?
Is almost a rhetorical question.
There are an amazing amount of people who know what a bunch of (insert varying degrees of disparagment/expletives here) those who 'administered' the place were.
As of late many of the most ardent ass-kissers are waking up... after having hit squarely in the face with a Mary Beth's frying pan of incompetence, insensibility and futility.
Of course the real reason they are sinking is that they are Unprincipled (greedy) Boorgy fools.
466. mgleason - 7/24/2001 4:54:08 PM
I dunno; there's already a few TT forums World Crossing, and somebody else posted a link to something she's been developing.
467. PelleNilsson - 7/24/2001 4:58:52 PM
I think it will affect us in some ways. I sense there are many posters over there, some good, some bad, who will not fork up $10-15 per month.
468. mgleason - 7/24/2001 5:02:59 PM
It seems as though the Salon Premium membership won't be applied to the new costs.
469. rubberducky - 7/24/2001 5:05:52 PM
oh well, the couple of good discussions i followed i can now ignore and delete a bookmark from my favorites.
maybe CD can bring over his "Down With God" thread over here, heh.
470. arkymalarky - 7/24/2001 5:14:27 PM
So they won't be able to join TT unless they pay for it separately from the Salon Premium? If I had forked out 30$ for that and found out I had to send more to stay in TT I think I would not be a very happy camper.
471. fuzzbox - 7/24/2001 5:17:44 PM
If I had forked out 30$ for that and found out I had to send more to stay in TT I think I would not be a very happy camper.
Many did... Chomp!
Faux-liberalism takes a bite out of yer* deserving ass! Hee hee hee!
*(Not you, arky)
472. mgleason - 7/24/2001 5:18:43 PM
Now they're saying that nothing's written in stone, and that they want ideas. People are telling them they better offer something, because those that forked over the $30 mostly did so to support TT.
473. CalGal - 7/24/2001 5:19:24 PM
I think it is entirely possible that they did it that way on purpose, Arky. Get the folks who don't use Salon but want to preserve it for TT to fork over $30. Then charge them for TT, too.
Are they doing away with TT completely and just moving everyone over to the Well? That would make more sense, given the costs of supporting TT.
474. CalGal - 7/24/2001 5:21:16 PM
Just read that Ann Rubin was let go, too, which makes more sense--assuming I was right that she was a newer hire.
475. arkymalarky - 7/24/2001 5:23:12 PM
Haha. Definitely not me, Fuzz.
Though I guess I shouldn't be laughing at them, since I did fork out money to Slate. We did at least get the forum until they changed it.
You're probably right, Cal, since the two policies were made so close together--which makes it really shitty.
476. CalGal - 7/24/2001 5:27:25 PM
I'm reading the thread now and there's quite a few people who are raising the same point.
477. CalGal - 7/24/2001 5:34:32 PM
You know, it really doesn't make sense to maintain two databases and administer two sites. But if they killed TT completely right away, all the TTers wouldn't fork out. So maybe they are hoping to get an instant infusion of more cash and then kill TT?
478. Dusty - 7/24/2001 5:44:31 PM
They claim they plan to offer both, because the Well is not anonymous, and TT can be.
Course, anything can change.
479. fuzzbox - 7/24/2001 5:45:39 PM
Exactly, they won't sustain The Well and TT... that decision has already been made, unless they are managerially incompetent in more ways than has already become apparent...
They will suck in more... dupes... Chomp!
Look at this from 'Please don't go, Jake the Jake!' in WH (Names have been changed to protect the innocent):
I'm in for the Premium, the Well, and I'll be in for the $6.50 monthly. I'm also interested in the trust. This is home. Are we going to allow them to chase us away?
480. CalGal - 7/24/2001 5:46:35 PM
Yeah, but I'm not sure I buy that.
I've been wondering--what will happen to The Well if Salon goes under? Is it profitable enough to go it alone? Who did Salon buy it from, or were they independent before that?
481. fuzzbox - 7/24/2001 5:48:20 PM
479 was in reply to 477 (at least as pretext)
482. CalGal - 7/24/2001 5:53:28 PM
Yeah, I knew you were talking to me, Fuzz. What I don't understand, though, is that since they only get the cash month to month, they won't get a huge infusion. So it doesn't really make sense.
Unless they've cut enough staff so that Tt isn't costing 10/month.
483. glendajean - 7/24/2001 5:53:55 PM
Remember how enthusiastic Slate was when they told us they were improving the Fray?
You're really going to like this, they said. I forget the poor guy who was their fall guy, defending what they did, but he really didn't expect the reaction that he got almost uniformly.
484. pogie - 7/24/2001 5:54:45 PM
It doesn't surprise me that they are going paid with tabletalk. But whyever did they pick such a clumsy way of going about it all. It is likely they will lose people due to all the baiting and switching, which defeats the whole point of it in the first place.
485. JudithAtHome - 7/24/2001 5:54:59 PM
Michael Brus, that's who it was...he later turned snarky.
486. fuzzbox - 7/24/2001 5:57:09 PM
487. JudithAtHome - 7/24/2001 5:58:39 PM Why is the thread list at the bottom of this page and no butter bar? 488. JudithAtHome - 7/24/2001 5:59:13 PM Fuzz, what are you doing to the page? 489. fuzzbox - 7/24/2001 5:59:55 PM Fucking Up... let me try and fix it...
490. fuzzbox - 7/24/2001 6:00:26 PM
did that work?
491. CalGal - 7/24/2001 6:03:01 PM
It was fixed--someone posted a bad link. The next post or so usually resolves it.
492. fuzzbox - 7/24/2001 6:09:09 PM
No, I did my font thing and somehow typed over or goofed the </FONT>... my new wireless keyboard that's what I'll use as an excuse!
So I put one in my next post... things don't just fix themsleves...
BTW, the 'content' (if you want to call it that) of my fucked up post is not showing at all...
493. christipeters - 7/24/2001 6:21:58 PM
Ah well, bye bye TT. One less addiction I have to resist.
494. JudithAtHome - 7/24/2001 6:25:39 PM
This from the managing editor of SALON:
Though we're extremely grateful for the support of those TTers who signed up for Salon Premium for whatever reason -- to support Salon or TT or both -- they do represent only a small percentage of the people who have signed up for Salon Premium. I don't believe we've "strung anyone along"; the support for Salon Premium does help Salon and TT in general, and if the *only* reason you joined Premium was to support TT and you're unhappy with our current move toward a subscription fee, we can give you your money back.
How could they not know people from TT signed up for Premium only to help TT when so many of them posted in the thread that they were doing just that? Really badly handled, all the way around.
495. christipeters - 7/24/2001 6:27:38 PM
"Really badly handled, all the way around"
Yep, reminds me of another place we used to hang out.
496. mgleason - 7/24/2001 6:27:46 PM
Interesting; now Scott Rosenberg is saying that those who paid for the premium service to support TT *only* can ask for their money back, but that they didn't string anyone along. He also says that those people only represent a small fraction of the premium subscribers, which I doubt.
497. mgleason - 7/24/2001 6:28:15 PM
Ha! X-post with Judith.
498. JudithAtHome - 7/24/2001 6:36:27 PM
It's nuts over there, huh?
499. racehorse - 7/24/2001 6:37:35 PM
I'll not be paying for TT access, no matter what the price.
500. arkymalarky - 7/24/2001 6:38:02 PM
The first head that should have rolled at Salon is their PR guy. I'm beginning to cringe for them. They don't even want to go there with the money refunding to unhappy TTers. Talk about a pain and expense. I also wonder if it's occurred to them they might not be able to continue to fund the mag, but maintaining the forums with a monthly fee might be doable, so they are shifting their emphasis.
I remember the poor sap at Slate, GJ. He may not have been aware of what the reaction of the Fraygrants would be, but I sure think the ones who persuaded him to go into the lion's den to tell us knew.
501. arkymalarky - 7/24/2001 6:40:28 PM
The thing about the other place is that the way they conducted themselves was imo ethically reprehensible, but they knew what they were doing and had it planned for awhile. I'm getting the feeling that the round table of ptbs at Salon are taking turns going "I have a great idea! Let's try this!"
502. JudithAtHome - 7/24/2001 6:41:44 PM
Well, I think it's crashed..or maybe they just read some of the stuff I wrote and have blacked me out!
503. mgleason - 7/24/2001 6:44:01 PM
Are the poeple who run these sites so out of touch that they think people can't figure out what's going on? It seems to me that they aren't being well-served if nobody says, 'Wait! This is crazy; we're gonna get screwed!'
It's Clinton and the pardons all over again.
504. racehorse - 7/24/2001 6:44:12 PM
Really? I'm there now.
505. mgleason - 7/24/2001 6:45:11 PM
Jeez! That's 'people.'
506. JudithAtHome - 7/24/2001 6:47:45 PM
I got back in...just a glitch, I guess.
And yes, MG, people are that out of touch. On the day they let staffers go who used to run the site, they spring "You have to pay us to post here now!" on everyone.
507. arkymalarky - 7/24/2001 7:04:11 PM
When does all this take effect? It says "starting in July 2001." Is it supposed to go into effect pretty much immediately?
508. mgleason - 7/24/2001 7:06:38 PM
Two weeks, Arky.
509. arkymalarky - 7/24/2001 7:13:30 PM
Lost a post. What I said was that two weeks gives people a lot of time to post and be mad about it. It would seem easier to just rip off the bandaid with one loud scream and be done with it. It will be interesting to see how this compares to the Fray going subscription.
510. arkymalarky - 7/24/2001 7:15:25 PM
I wonder how many regular posters TT has.
511. mgleason - 7/24/2001 7:22:10 PM
I think it'll be much worse than the Fray. First, because TT has a lot more members; second, because of the bait-and-switch with Salon Premium.
In addition, they've posted some guff about not being able to unbundle the Well and TT without going to a lot of trouble, which if true, means they have a Mickey Mouse billing system. I think people are just going to see this as an excuse to charge the Well's (relatively) exorbitant rates to the much larger TT membership.
512. arkymalarky - 7/24/2001 7:26:59 PM
I agree. I don't remember a lot of complaint about Slate going to subscription, but it seems Salon is being completely inept about the whole thing. Now if a year or so later they change the webx format to a BBS...I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that.
513. pogie - 7/24/2001 7:32:16 PM
Heh, they said they were wanting to preserve the webx format.
514. JudithAtHome - 7/24/2001 7:33:17 PM
The people I know, mostly from television threads, have already moved in to WorldCrossing and are thinking about trying out the Rabbit Hole, too. All since 3pm!
I'm pretty sure it's going down the tubes; in my mind, it's already gone.
515. pogie - 7/24/2001 7:34:18 PM
Also what tweaks me is how many people persist in thinking of salon as a 'cause' instead of a business.
516. JudithAtHome - 7/24/2001 7:38:10 PM
Oh yeah, that is what gripes me about the lead paragraph of the "bad news Town Meeting"..."I just love this place!"
Yeah, I liked it, too, but I'm not giving my money to a bunch of jerks who plow through it like it was nose candy and then hit you up like you're the brother of an addict with endless cash to bestow.
517. fuzzbox - 7/24/2001 7:42:10 PM
Hey pogie, alot of them think that the Democratic Party is a cause too... Salon is just a subsidiary of Democratic Party, Inc.
As far as I'm concerned they deserve this 'adventure in capitalism'; maybe it'll wake some of them up?
Heh... but I doubt it.
518. mgleason - 7/24/2001 7:42:19 PM
No, I'm not giving them my money. This latest madcap escapade shows me they've learnt nothing from their travails, and have emerged, arrogance intact, ready to fuck up some more. Not on my dime, fellas.
519. arkymalarky - 7/24/2001 7:42:40 PM
Hahaha! Great analogy, Judith.
520. JudithAtHome - 7/24/2001 7:45:43 PM
Thanks, Arky...been there, done that!
I'm working tomorrow so I'll catch y'all on Thursday....
521. arkymalarky - 7/24/2001 7:46:09 PM
Hey, maybe the execs at Salon could float the idea of a charity fund sponsoring TT subscriptions with Bush tax rebates.
522. arkymalarky - 7/24/2001 7:46:46 PM
Enjoy your workday, Judith!
523. fuzzbox - 7/24/2001 7:48:41 PM
Now that's funny, Arky! And they'd be tripping all over themselves to be the first to bite... Chomp!
524. fuzzbox - 7/24/2001 8:14:08 PM
525. Erinys - 7/24/2001 8:16:28 PM
Very funny about the tax rebate, arkmalarky.
Well, I enjoyed TT but knew it would end, sometime. Just like the mote might someday, I'm just saying.
There's just too many online forums out there waiting, you know?
526. arkymalarky - 7/24/2001 8:30:46 PM
The Mote may very well be gone one day, but the fact that it's a volunteer site with a generous provider of a server means it will be time to give it up once it's gone, as opposed to a forum like the Fray or TT--still vibrant and killed by bad management and poor investment of resources.
527. arkymalarky - 7/24/2001 8:32:13 PM
WRT Fray it was imo a lack of interest on the part of Slate in making it successful. TT seems at this point to be ridiculous and repetitive bungling on the part of Salon.
528. racehorse - 7/24/2001 8:40:37 PM
There's also Utne.com, which runs extensive forums. But, it's a hotbed of liberalism, and some find that irritating.
529. Cellar Door - 7/24/2001 11:31:52 PM
Yep. Can't have enough fascism on the internet!
530. don s. - 7/25/2001 12:01:16 AM
hee hee
nothing like the economic woes of a Real web board to send the moties into paroxysms of cheap indignation and schadenfreude.
531. Jean B. - 7/25/2001 12:40:55 AM
I feel like a real doofus because I'm one of the TTers who paid my $30 to help keep it up and running. No way will I send good money after bad! The Mote and WorldCrossing will do just fine.
532. CalGal - 7/25/2001 12:47:58 AM
I think Rosenberg could have been more honest in Tabletalk, given that he responded to questions there. Quite a few people said they were ponying up to save TT. But there's just no way that he didn't know then that TT's finances were different. So why not just say so?
533. mgleason - 7/25/2001 12:54:09 AM
Many people just wouldn't have anted up the $30 if he'd made it clear that TT was going to be the next subscription spin-off. I take no joy, malicious or otherwise, in Salon's woes, but they've been wrong-footing it for a long while, and haven't stopped yet.
534. CalGal - 7/25/2001 1:01:43 AM
If he's honest about the 10K subscribers, then how many TTers would matter? He could have said hold your money, tt is next up.
But I don't think it's Salon per se, it seems to be a type of business speak.
535. don s. - 7/25/2001 1:05:31 AM
wrong-footing, yes. but I had to laugh at this predictably tendentious theory:
I think it is entirely possible that they did it that way on purpose, Arky. Get the folks who don't use Salon but want to preserve it for TT to fork over $30. Then charge them for TT, too.
not to mention:
You know, it really doesn't make sense to maintain two databases and administer two sites. But if they killed TT completely right away, all the TTers wouldn't fork out. So maybe they are hoping to get an instant infusion of more cash and then kill TT?
hee. boy those wounds never heal, do they?
536. arkymalarky - 7/25/2001 10:51:32 AM
Actually, I haven't taken this very seriously, since I don't participate in TT, but I probably should since I was devastated when Slate changed the Fray; and I do feel for the TTers, I just think Salon is really screwing up.
537. CalGal - 7/25/2001 11:04:03 AM
I've already sent condolences along for that same reason.
But while Salon certain is screwing up, I'm not sure that killing--or charging for--TT is evidence of it. I really don't see any reason for an online magazine to support a user community.
Rosenberg mentioned--and I then saw it in another forum as well--that ad rates for "user content" websites are very low because they are notoriously uninterested in clicking. Which means that the only reason I could figure for Salon keeping TT around--the clicks--was wrong. So I keep wondering why it stayed as long as it did.
538. arkymalarky - 7/25/2001 11:20:21 AM
IMO, the screwup is charging 30 bucks and then trying to charge separately for TT after the fact. I don't know how many are like Jean B, but add the loss of members who refuse to shell out more than 30$ but might have paid a small monthly fee to stay in TT otherwise, to their offer to refund the 30$ to those TTers who don't want premium services with a separate TT charge, and it could be a real mess and expense.
539. Jean B. - 7/25/2001 6:12:48 PM
Several others (probably lots of others) contributed their $30; at least I have the satisfaction of knowing I'm not alone!
Some of the MWT gang are saying they'll pay for a short while to see what happens and how many stick around; others cannot/will not fork over a monthly fee.
540. fuzzbox - 7/25/2001 6:14:27 PM
Is worldcrossing dead to the world? Can anyone get in right now?
541. arkymalarky - 7/25/2001 6:26:21 PM
I just did, Fuzz, but I couldn't earlier.
542. fuzzbox - 7/25/2001 6:37:32 PM
Well now maybe the TT knuckleheads will understand the diff between free and licensed...
Many of them are wondering (indignation!) why worldx is free and TT is gonna cost them... $125K(?) a year for the SW alone + bandwidth + HW...
worldcrossing is gonna have to do something, because this is more than they can take... I wonder if they will?
543. PelleNilsson - 7/26/2001 3:07:50 AM
I have wondered the same thing. For example Jürgen Huber has set up an international forum over there which is a colossal maze of threads with a few or zero messages in each. I guess each thread must cost something in computing overhead for WebX.
544. CalGal - 7/26/2001 1:51:38 PM
Worldcrossing is down. Again. I doubt they know what hit them.
545. CalGal - 7/26/2001 1:53:10 PM
And now it's back up! But I don't ever remember it being down before this week. I only check it randomly, but still.
546. JudithAtHome - 7/26/2001 2:21:00 PM
TT and WC were both unavailable for about the same amount of time AT the same time...hmmmmmmm.
547. bbb - 7/26/2001 5:11:10 PM
What is TT?
548. bubbaette - 7/26/2001 5:15:44 PM
Table Talk -- Salon.com's forum.
549. bbb - 7/26/2001 5:20:54 PM
Would TT spend more money in expense than collected subscription fees?
550. JudithAtHome - 7/26/2001 5:34:29 PM
Someone just pointed out that there are no banner ads on TT today.
551. glendajean - 7/26/2001 5:35:18 PM
I suppose that it is not a banner day at TT.
552. bbb - 7/26/2001 5:39:45 PM
post #549 :
The alternative energy ethanol may be another analogy : it may have NEGATIVE net energy contents (BTUs).
553. LimeGirl - 7/26/2001 6:02:48 PM
Heh. I hadn't even noticed the lack of banners, just that my "no new subscriptions" screen looked a little different than usual.
I'm so observant!
554. bbb - 7/26/2001 6:09:17 PM
Pay-per-post at TT ?
:-)
555. Gene Smith - 7/26/2001 6:25:39 PM
I was looking for some ex-Salon posters to soon arrive here. Perhaps they will show up after Salon closes their threads to subscribers only.
556. pseudoerasmus - 7/26/2001 6:27:14 PM
Jürgen's international forum is an inbred cesspool -- a bit like the Mote, but without the organisation and technical niceties.
557. Gene Smith - 7/26/2001 6:30:15 PM
For the Ladies on here. 558. Erinys - 7/26/2001 6:34:45 PM That means nothing to me. 559. JudithAtHome - 7/26/2001 6:35:20 PM Thank you, Gene Smith, and welcome to the Mote...you have such a way with roses, allow me to invite you to the Good Life thread! 560. Erinys - 7/26/2001 6:40:12 PM Ahh. I am horizontally challenged. 561. JudithAtHome - 7/26/2001 6:40:51 PM Well, I don't know how to close the tag... 562. Gene Smith - 7/26/2001 6:41:23 PM JudithAtHome: 563. marjoribanks - 7/26/2001 6:42:10 PM Actually, that International Forum is more like a lunatics asylum with the lunatics at the helm. 564. Gene Smith - 7/26/2001 6:43:24 PM My goodness!!!!!!!! Close the tag with this at the end of you last word in your sentence or paragraph please:
@}--}---
Well, thank you for the welcome. I hope to bring some real nice people here before too much longer from Salon after they go to subscription fee only.
I won't invite the obnoxious ones' I've encountered there and elsewhere.
J
565. bbb - 7/26/2001 6:43:43 PM
Gene Gene Gene
566. Gene Smith - 7/26/2001 6:45:15 PM
My goodness again!!!! What has gone wrong here?
567. bbb - 7/26/2001 6:45:29 PM
The missing intern or the missing political messages?
568. Gene Smith - 7/26/2001 6:46:15 PM
Lordy, Lordy, Lordy!!!!!!!!!
569. Ms. No - 7/26/2001 6:46:39 PM
Welcome, Gene. Lovely rose. We have our share of obnoxiousness like any other forum, but there are plenty of non-obnoxious posters to keep it balanced.
570. Gene Smith - 7/26/2001 6:47:47 PM
bbb, do I know you from another planet? Hee. Hee. Please answer yes or no, then I will know for sure.
(:^)
571. Ms. No - 7/26/2001 6:52:20 PM
Gene,
If you're feeling tentative about the way HTML works here, visit the HTML Scratchpad thread. It's a good place to try out anything wacky and to adjust to the differences between TT and the Mote.
The Mote doesn't automatically close tags and we don't have an edit button once you've posted, but you can preview any post you construct.
572. bbb - 7/26/2001 6:52:25 PM
Gene Gene Gene
The answer is "maybe".
573. Gene Smith - 7/26/2001 6:52:41 PM
569. Ms. No - 7/26/01 11:46:39 PM.
Thank you also. I appreciate the warm welcome extended to me here from you and others. I'll try my best to obey the rules and regulations for this thread.
574. Ms. No - 7/26/2001 6:56:44 PM
No worries, Gene. I'm sure you'll do fine!
575. Gene Smith - 7/26/2001 6:58:38 PM
571. Ms. No - 7/26/01 11:52:20 PM.
Thank you for this info on HTML. I will study and check that out. Goodness, if I caused the large red letters, I apologise for that.
576. bbb - 7/26/2001 6:59:43 PM
Gene,
Are you partially responsible for the TT demise?
577. Gene Smith - 7/26/2001 7:02:21 PM
Personally, I am looking for a thread of nice posters to meet, enjoy their company, have lots of good, clean fun and also if the situation should arise, to do some serious debating about issues of interest to others on here.
578. Gene Smith - 7/26/2001 7:10:57 PM
bbb, I'm not exactly sure, but I think that concerning the situation with TT's major problems was not enough money for the operation they tried to run. Now....my personal opinion only on this.
579. JudithAtHome - 7/26/2001 7:17:09 PM
Gene, I think you've come to the right place!
580. Dusty - 7/26/2001 7:31:52 PM
Gail (or Mary beth) took down the banners this afternoon. But I didn't notice until she mentioned it.
581. Dusty - 7/26/2001 7:34:36 PM
Gene Smith
Personally, I am looking for a thread of nice posters to meet, enjoy their company, have lots of good, clean fun and also if the situation should arise, to do some serious debating about issues of interest to others on here.
Welcome!!
We aim to please.
OK everyone, put your thinking caps on. Does anyone know any places that meet his requirements?
582. Dusty - 7/26/2001 7:36:15 PM
OK, how'd that happen?
583. Dusty - 7/26/2001 7:37:20 PM
I even previewed.
584. don s. - 7/27/2001 2:00:30 AM
OK everyone, put your thinking caps on. Does anyone know any places that meet his requirements?
I'm stumped.
585. mgleason - 7/27/2001 8:59:47 AM
I'm having a bit of a giggle over the 'Oh, you disloyal bastards, can't you see that this is all for the good of TT?' posts from Salon management and the cadre of loyalists. It's insane to expect people to buy the Mother Teresa act, especially when Salon's SEC filing from April, in which plans for milking the loyal base are detailed, is part of the public record.
586. rubberducky - 7/27/2001 9:21:08 AM
oh, now, MG - what's a little $150/year between friends?
just try it, ya may like it!
587. mgleason - 7/27/2001 9:23:08 AM
Hey, I'm a cynical, disloyal, rat-fink bastard!
588. rubberducky - 7/27/2001 9:35:09 AM
yes, but Salon Inc. (TM) is your bestest buddy in the whole wide world. won't you look deep into your heart and give them $150 a year? it's only something like 40 measly cents a day!
skip an ice cream cone a day for a company burning through a million bucks a month today, won't you? pease? pweetty pease.
589. iiibbb - 7/27/2001 9:48:58 AM
from the "I LOVE SALON" thread ---Indeed, the Internet cannot sustain itself on advertising any longer, and this is rapidly becoming the not-so-free web.
What makes me think this person's ISP is AOL?
About the only people that could get away with charging are search engines... becuase between them and webmail providers they're about the only thing that is of any real use to me. Anything I have to pay for in here I'll just learn to live without.
Thanks to anyone who volunteers in support of The Mote.
590. PelleNilsson - 7/27/2001 9:58:58 AM
One thing I won't easily to live without is Britannica which goes back to being a subscription site. They charge $5 per month or $50 per year.
591. iiibbb - 7/27/2001 10:03:15 AM
I would almost pay for an encyclopedia site... but I wind up going to those places infrequently. I usually just rely on google to take me to a site where some geek has written extensively on whatever subject.
I like about.com --- again, I would almost pay for that... but since I usually I go there for the gee-whiz factor rather than actual research. I'm not sure I would pay much.
592. iiibbb - 7/27/2001 10:03:35 AM
toys toys
593. iiibbb - 7/27/2001 10:04:21 AM
toys toys
594. Gene Smith - 7/27/2001 11:16:43 AM
Good morning all. I keep getting lost on this place.
(:^(.
A
595. JudithAtHome - 7/27/2001 11:33:01 AM
Good morning, Gene...once you get used to it, it's fairly easy to navigate this place.
596. Gene Smith - 7/27/2001 11:39:17 AM
JudithAtHome; I tried to make a post on World Crossin on the Cafe thread, but I could not do so. It asked me for my name and password, which I gave as the same one I use to post here, but it wouldn't accept it.
It kept telling me another person was already signed in with that mail address....which is me... and name when I tried to register there. I am real confused conserning this problem. Shall I need to re-register with another name and password to post on World Crossing's threads? Thank's in advance for any help you can offer me.
597. iiibbb - 7/27/2001 11:53:50 AM
If you can post in this thread you must be able to post in the other. No need to login again, just follow a "home" link or the butterbar on the right. Once you have a posting window it's there for the duration.
You can even choose to have it automatically log in, if you are at home or whatnot.
598. CalGal - 7/27/2001 11:56:03 AM
No, are you referring to worldcrossing.com? That Cafe thread? (That's a different forum, iiibbb).
You'll need a new id for worldcrossing.
599. JudithAtHome - 7/27/2001 11:58:44 AM
Gene:
World Crossing is an entirely different site from The Mote...if you haven't registered with them, you'll need to do so...if there is already a "Gene Smith" there, you could use Gene Smith II or something, I guess...don't know much about WorldCrossing except that some of us went over there when TT was down for days awhile back and set up a place to explain this place.
Lots of TTers have landed over there...I check out the threads devoted to televison that are also in TT because that is where most of my time is spent on TT.
600. Gene Smith - 7/27/2001 12:01:38 PM
Thank you folks for your info. I was using IE for trying to post there, and when that failed, I went back to my Netscape Browser and posted there just fine. Now, I really need a cold brew from the other Cafe to settle my news. Hee. Hee.
I'll get things all straightened out soon hopefully. If I'm boring you all, I apologise.
601. Gene Smith - 7/27/2001 12:06:10 PM
I love the Mote and will be an active poster on it. So far, I have met some nice people and hope to have lots of fun, enjoyment and later on maybe some debating on matters that some of us are concerned with, here in the U.S.A. as well as other countries.
Thank's again all. Shucks, if I can't get access to the Other Cafe, I may have to drink coffee instead of a good, cold Heineken Brew. HaHaHa.
602. JudithAtHome - 7/27/2001 12:06:21 PM
Not a problem at all, Gene...all of us were new to this at one time or another.
603. Gene Smith - 7/27/2001 12:13:16 PM
Opppps....I meant to say in my other post...."to settle my nerves", instead of "to settle my news".
(^-^)
604. glendajean - 7/27/2001 12:33:39 PM
Welcome, Gene. The Mote Cafe is an easy place to hang-out and meet fellow Motiers.
605. bbb - 7/27/2001 2:07:42 PM
Will TT have more threads than the posters?
606. Gene Smith - 7/27/2001 2:13:07 PM
604. glendajean; Thank you much for your friendly welcome. I have invited one of my close friends to come on here. She is a very busy lady, but I imagine she will sign up before too much longer. 607. Gene Smith - 7/27/2001 2:16:56 PM bbb; Hi there. How's your day going? 608. Gene Smith - 7/27/2001 2:19:26 PM Now darn it...I closed my paragraph....why did red show up? 609. glendajean - 7/27/2001 2:19:37 PM Gene, when you use html in the Mote, you have to close it off with / in brackets or it will continue on and on. We call that not putting your toys away. 610. glendajean - 7/27/2001 2:20:07 PM toys? 611. glendajean - 7/27/2001 2:25:16 PM 612. Gene Smith - 7/27/2001 2:28:51 PM 613. Gene Smith - 7/27/2001 2:30:13 PM Damn!!!!() 614. PsychProf - 7/27/2001 2:30:22 PM toys 615. PsychProf - 7/27/2001 2:31:13 PM Welcome Gene... 616. ElliottRW - 7/27/2001 2:32:03 PM That is one groovy rose! 617. Gene Smith - 7/27/2001 2:40:16 PM Thank you PsychProf and ElliottRW. I'm almost afraid to ever post the rose again. I mess up things when I do. 618. glendajean - 7/27/2001 3:33:04 PM Gene, it's ok. Everybody has to go through this. It really gets messy when people screw up boxes and tables and pictures. No biggie. 619. CalGal - 7/27/2001 4:40:53 PM Here is a recreation for how the phrase came to be. 620. marshame - 7/27/2001 4:50:01 PM My one foray into TT was when the URL was salonmagazine.com because some beauty shop had already bagged salon.com. 621. PelleNilsson - 7/27/2001 5:00:47 PM Toy Story is an immortal sequence of posts. 622. PelleNilsson - 7/27/2001 5:03:54 PM Where are my manners? Thanks for digging them out, CalGal. 623. JudithAtHome - 7/27/2001 9:52:30 PM Here's something I read over in TT: 624. Gene Smith - 7/27/2001 11:06:09 PM WoW!!!! The thread is dead tonight. 625. oscarcat - 7/28/2001 1:30:36 AM Gene Smith, 626. Gene Smith - 7/28/2001 8:52:48 AM Hello to you oscarcat: 627. Gene Smith - 7/28/2001 9:21:30 AM Eweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!! An Alien!!!!! 628. bbb - 7/28/2001 4:18:03 PM When will be the last day of TT? 629. bbb - 7/28/2001 4:24:37 PM http://tabletalk.salon.com/webx?14@138.AnmKauugNaU^38@.eec650a/311 630. bbb - 7/28/2001 4:28:31 PM 631. concerned - 7/28/2001 6:29:03 PM requiem for TT? 632. Gene Smith - 7/28/2001 8:50:24 PM 630. bbb - 7/28/01 9:28:31 PM. 633. concerned - 7/28/2001 10:58:06 PM Just popped on over to TT via bbb's link to see how things are - haven't been there for weeks. 634. concerned - 7/28/2001 11:01:39 PM ...destined to be essentially coeval... 635. concerned - 7/28/2001 11:12:52 PM Evidence that Salon is largely a WH Rapist support group: 636. Cellar Door - 7/28/2001 11:32:06 PM But they'll all be ovr here shortly, connie. 637. concerned - 7/28/2001 11:44:57 PM Ohhhhhh, noooooooo! 638. concerned - 7/28/2001 11:46:47 PM The Clinton Chronicles couldn't have been as bad as these Lefties in TT. 639. oscarcat - 7/29/2001 12:11:30 AM Sure which is the worst? Why not do a comparison of the two. Might be enlightening. 640. joezan - 7/29/2001 12:36:38 AM Hey, how about this one: 641. CalGal - 7/29/2001 12:59:21 AM I just read about the "gift certificates". People who only lurk won't be getting offers to have their way paid. Sounds a bit like a popularity contest to me. 642. concerned - 7/29/2001 1:03:21 AM Re. 639 - 643. concerned - 7/29/2001 1:05:06 AM I mean, it would have to..... 644. concerned - 7/29/2001 1:18:32 AM To be brutally frank, I have seen online snippets of the CC, and there is at least some attempt to lay a factually plausible groundwork for the alleged misdeeds that it claims Clowntoon is guilty of. 645. concerned - 7/29/2001 2:37:03 AM Here's the actual header for a TT thread: 646. concerned - 7/29/2001 3:00:58 AM More Lefty 'enlightenment' from TT: 647. concerned - 7/29/2001 3:04:01 AM Really cerebral, that.... 648. concerned - 7/29/2001 3:15:31 AM 'Bwuck Bwuck chicken george'....now why on earth should Lefties get upset about me calling Clowntoon the WH Rapist when they eat up really banal stuff like that with a spoon? 649. concerned - 7/29/2001 3:28:08 AM I was always somewhat bemused at the Left's reverence for Clowntoon's supposed intellect. Here's a sociopathic, lying sleazeball who got thrown out of Oxford, probably for raping a woman, and depended on his handlers more than GWB to decide what he'd tell the public, which usually turned out to be a lie, anyway. 650. concerned - 7/29/2001 3:34:29 AM Talking about entitlement, enquiring minds want to know how Bore got into these prestigious post graduate programs with such a substandard GPA at Harvard. Hell, I'm surprised they let him have a four year degree with less than a C average. 651. concerned - 7/29/2001 5:13:11 AM If the Democrats would be so foolish as to nominate Bore to run for president in 2004, it'd be MBA Man against Boy Flunkout: the Landslide. 652. Cellar Door - 7/29/2001 9:35:45 AM ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz 653. Cellar Door - 7/29/2001 9:39:26 AM Now read this connie -- if you dare! 654. Cellar Door - 7/29/2001 9:41:23 AM 655. Gene Smith - 7/29/2001 10:21:40 AM He sort of reminds me of...well...Me when I was a Kid. HaHaHa. 656. Gene Smith - 7/29/2001 10:29:02 AM "Congress is an Entity, 657. concerned - 7/29/2001 12:35:55 PM Sounds like Congressman Thomas has (or had) a conflict of interest which ought to be investigated. 658. PelleNilsson - 7/29/2001 12:43:32 PM This conflict of interest involves Salon? 659. Erinys - 7/29/2001 1:21:54 PM About the gift certificates for lurkers - since they lurk and don't post, why would they care? They can still lurk. 660. racehorse - 7/29/2001 1:25:07 PM Good point. 661. concerned - 7/29/2001 1:27:56 PM Someone ought to give me a TT gift certificate. It'd be very cost effective. I'd probably get banned in a day or two. 662. Erinys - 7/29/2001 1:35:19 PM I think the idea of the gift certificates is to keep people around, concerned. Some of the people won't be able to afford the new TT fee past the 3 months' introductory rate, esp those outside the USA. 663. concerned - 7/29/2001 1:43:34 PM What if Salon offered a reduced rate for those who live outside the US? However, it may be possible for this or the certificate plan to be taken advantage of by somebody who represents themselves as being offshore and routes their posts through a foreign server. 664. Cellar Door - 7/29/2001 3:23:32 PM Don't we have enough "gifting" already with Sully? 665. Cellar Door - 7/29/2001 3:27:58 PM We really should think long and hard (no cracks!) about what it means to have a free site like this one. Charging to post creats a totally different situation than a free site. Byt charging,TT is creating a class sustem. Those with more disposal income will be left talking to their own kind. Cozy. 666. JudithAtHome - 7/29/2001 3:28:49 PM What are you saying, Cellar? That we should give a moment of silence or sign up so they can hold on for another month? Take up a collection and send the people who run the place to business school? 667. JudithAtHome - 7/29/2001 3:29:37 PM Hey! SOS post for moi!! 668. Cellar Door - 7/29/2001 3:30:47 PM Over the years I've found TT to be more of a social gathering place than anything else. The Los Angeles posters have formed a tight netwrok and we're in and out of each others off-line lives all the time. This will doubtless continue. 669. Cellar Door - 7/29/2001 3:32:00 PM I wouldn't ask for amoment of silence or even hopes to hold one for another month, Judith. 670. JudithAtHome - 7/29/2001 3:35:38 PM They are like we were when the Fray was being snatched out from under us...only not as organized. 671. JudithAtHome - 7/29/2001 3:37:06 PM I have the money to pay but I'm not going to...maybe for the "special" price for a month but after that, ta-ta. 672. concerned - 7/29/2001 4:11:08 PM cellar - 673. Cellar Door - 7/29/2001 4:15:16 PM Make no mistake -- the screaming has already begun. 674. JudithAtHome - 7/29/2001 4:21:22 PM I've never understood why many here think the only people posting on TT are Political types...I've met so many nice people over there who never set foot inside the Politics folder. 675. Cellar Door - 7/29/2001 4:34:42 PM Quite true, Judith. It's just that Politics get everybody's heart started on the net. 676. Erinys - 7/29/2001 4:35:39 PM Cellar Door, what does this mean? 677. Cellar Door - 7/29/2001 4:47:54 PM You're new here, aren't you dear? 678. Erinys - 7/29/2001 6:40:32 PM That was interesting to read. 679. Cellar Door - 7/29/2001 7:03:17 PM No, my cyberpal James Knight designed it. I met him in Table Talk. He lives in New Zealand, so we have yet to meet off-line. 680. concerned - 7/30/2001 12:33:16 AM Nice looking site, cellar. 681. Cellar Door - 7/30/2001 9:56:11 AM Merci! 682. bbb - 7/30/2001 11:42:28 AM What's Salon/TT's business model? 683. Cellar Door - 7/30/2001 12:38:24 PM Your guess is as good as ine. It's all connected to the whole money-making crisis the net has created. It was overhyped as a source of revenue and the dot soms failed. The big question is "Now What?" 684. bbb - 7/30/2001 1:23:33 PM CD, 685. JayAckroyd - 7/30/2001 2:27:27 PM Before the internet explosion, subscription models worked fine for discussion sites. Even more common was pay by the hour plans, as with Compuserv. IMO, it was those plans that led to TLAs and emoticons, because a user needed to economize on time on line. 686. glendajean - 7/30/2001 2:32:51 PM If anybody wants to register, have them send an email to gatekeeper@themote.com and the gatekeeper will do it manually. They should include the moniker or name that they want to use in the Mote. 687. CalGal - 7/30/2001 2:33:47 PM Some TTers have been on the usenet for years, just as some of them have been on the Well. I haven't heard any of the relatively new users (the ones who have only been online since magazine forums like Slate and Salon) mentioning it as an option. 688. CalGal - 7/30/2001 2:35:12 PM GJ, I hooked up a link to Alistair's instructions on the front page. I also mentioned this over at worldcrossing. 689. enajo1 - 7/30/2001 4:09:54 PM I just got signed up here and am checking it out. I am also on peoplesforum.com and worldcrossing.com. Lots of TT-ers on both of those. August 6th seems to be the drop dead date on Salon TT. Oh well. 690. Francis Urquhart - 7/30/2001 4:24:21 PM People seem to like it, but many have balked the initiation rituals, especially the paddling. 691. glendajean - 7/30/2001 4:24:54 PM enajol -- welcome. 692. arkymalarky - 7/30/2001 4:25:30 PM Except Francis, who enjoyed it, as you can see for yourself if you go read the Politics thread. ;-) 693. arkymalarky - 7/30/2001 4:26:55 PM Oops. 692 was to 690, as I hope was obvious. 694. glendajean - 7/30/2001 4:27:06 PM Francis Urquhart was raised in a British boarding school. Because of a bureaucratic error, he ended up staying 4 extra years before he attended University. Please keep this in mind when reading his posts. 695. glendajean - 7/30/2001 4:30:34 PM Of course, in this Urquhartian Age, I realize that my post #694, intended to be light-hearted, sounds very mean spirited. 696. Cellar Door - 7/30/2001 4:32:36 PM Francis the next time you're in L.A. you must come over and I'll show you my laserdic of "If. . ." 697. bbb - 7/30/2001 6:06:59 PM Can I offer a TT Scholarship to jexster ? 698. bbb - 7/30/2001 6:29:44 PM What happened? TT has NO ad banners? What was the ad revenue generated from TT before? 699. bbb - 7/30/2001 7:16:06 PM http://tabletalk.salon.com/webx?14@202.uApTaSnHNqv^16@.eec6882/2653 700. bbb - 7/30/2001 7:16:56 PM 701. Gene Smith - 7/31/2001 8:48:06 PM Shoo, Fly!!!!!!!! 702. Erinys - 8/7/2001 6:21:19 PM enajo1 and Gene, are you staying with TT? I understand the pais service starts tomorrow. 703. Erinys - 8/7/2001 6:22:42 PM pais, pain, paiD....you knew what I meant. 704. JudithAtHome - 8/7/2001 6:25:01 PM Curtins for free TT, tomorrow evening. 705. bbb - 8/7/2001 7:09:25 PM TT is a ghost town. 706. bbb - 8/7/2001 7:18:28 PM More from the last day of TT land 707. Cellar Door - 8/7/2001 8:10:02 PM "TT is a ghost town." 708. Cellar Door - 8/7/2001 8:10:33 PM And I suppose this burg is the freeway at rush hour! 709. mgleason - 8/8/2001 2:29:37 PM Talbot Declares ‘Salon’ Back From the Dead: 710. CalGal - 8/8/2001 3:12:42 PM Wow. That's a shocker. 711. vw - 8/8/2001 3:16:20 PM What, did Talbot's rich granny pass away? 712. rubberducky - 8/8/2001 3:20:58 PM i guess more people than i expected coughed up some TT dough! 713. vw - 8/8/2001 3:23:55 PM IIRC, the last I heard was that a little more than 500 people signed up for WELL/TT posting memberships. 714. mgleason - 8/8/2001 3:28:49 PM The article says that Salon has 12,000 subscribers paying an average of $33 per annum. 715. rubberducky - 8/8/2001 3:34:08 PM from the article... 716. CalGal - 8/8/2001 3:53:25 PM I wonder if it is the liberal wet dream they were mentioning in TT--maybe Barbra Streisand came through after all. 717. JudithAtHome - 8/8/2001 3:58:23 PM Yeah, Ducky...that's what? Five months of what they burn through in a year? Or was that one million a month? If so, it's a little under two weeks worth... 718. Indiana Jones - 8/8/2001 4:10:33 PM What Salon wants out of TT: 719. JudithAtHome - 8/8/2001 4:14:22 PM I think it's all a smoke screen and they are going under...the money he can scrape out of everyone right now will tide him over til he gets back from the Caymans. 720. Indiana Jones - 8/8/2001 4:22:49 PM Salon reported revenues of $7.2 million, down 10 percent from $8 million in FY 2000. Operating expenses came to $26.8 million, down 13 percent from $30.9 million in FY 2000. 721. Indiana Jones - 8/8/2001 4:28:58 PM They just announced they're postponing the changeover to pay. 722. rubberducky - 8/8/2001 4:35:40 PM where? 723. Shannon - 8/8/2001 4:37:10 PM In the left-hand column of TT, where there used to be a message saying it would happen tonight. 724. CalGal - 8/8/2001 4:37:35 PM Man, what happens to all the people who have already paid up? 725. Shannon - 8/8/2001 4:38:16 PM Just a few days, they're saying. 726. JudithAtHome - 8/8/2001 4:40:37 PM Well, I can't even get in there now.... 727. Shannon - 8/8/2001 4:41:39 PM Judith, I couldn't get in for a minute too, but now I can. 728. mgleason - 8/8/2001 4:43:29 PM People are really pissed over misleading information about the WELL, too. It seems that there's a way to track people who look in on discussions without posting, and the TT staff had said that the only way your name would ever be visible to WELL residents was if you posted. 729. CalGal - 8/8/2001 4:45:18 PM Oh, I see, I thought it was related to the funding. 730. Cellar Door - 8/8/2001 4:45:35 PM TT CHANGEOVER TO PAID SUBSCRIPTION POSTPONED A FEW DAYS. NEW DATE ANNOUNCED SOON. 731. JudithAtHome - 8/8/2001 4:54:05 PM MG: 732. mgleason - 8/8/2001 4:57:24 PM Your visit is recorded for posterity, J! It sounds like an Eastern European police state over there. 733. rubberducky - 8/8/2001 5:01:40 PM MG 734. mgleason - 8/8/2001 5:03:35 PM I live to slander the righteous, RD! Watch out! 735. rubberducky - 8/8/2001 5:08:25 PM I. 736. mgleason - 8/8/2001 5:15:25 PM Well, you've had your revenge, RD. I just tried to give a cat with an upset stomach some Pepto-Bismol and am covered in pink goo! 737. rubberducky - 8/8/2001 5:17:09 PM such is the fate of all slanderous people! 738. arkymalarky - 8/8/2001 5:17:49 PM That's what happened to me the one time I took Pepto-Bismol, so I'm not surprised. 739. mgleason - 8/8/2001 5:22:03 PM It was really pretty funny. I have these plastic syringes that the vet gives me, and I put a small amount of P-B in it, attempted to shoot it into my cat's mouth, and had it returned a hundred-fold. It's a disaster of biblical proportions; picture pink loaves and fishes. 740. concerned - 8/8/2001 5:23:51 PM Re. 736 - 741. mgleason - 8/8/2001 5:25:42 PM You're very welcome, Concerned. I've got a million of 'em! 742. vw - 8/8/2001 5:38:05 PM It sounds like an Eastern European police state over there. 743. mgleason - 8/8/2001 5:44:24 PM Perhaps it would be better to read posts a little more carefully before you jump into judgmental mode. 744. vw - 8/8/2001 5:48:04 PM It seems that there's a way to track people who look in on discussions without posting, and the TT staff had said that the only way your name would ever be visible to WELL residents was if you posted. 745. JudithAtHome - 8/8/2001 5:51:53 PM I solved that by using my real name at both places...I have nothing to hide in either and if I act like an ass and people want to hound me over it, fine. 746. CalGal - 8/8/2001 5:55:00 PM Right, like that's the worst that could happen, Judith. 747. mgleason - 8/8/2001 5:57:11 PM That's not the issue, though. Laura C posted instructions on how to access the names of all those who enter discussions, whether they post or not, and that's a bit different. 748. JudithAtHome - 8/8/2001 5:57:47 PM Thus far, the worst that has happened has been some people wrote me letters of support over some little dust up on the Politically Incorrect thread in TV. 749. vw - 8/8/2001 6:00:58 PM It is the close tracking of individuals 750. vw - 8/8/2001 6:03:37 PM how to access the names of all those who enter discussions 751. CalGal - 8/8/2001 6:05:16 PM I never said it was the worst that could happen 752. Indiana Jones - 8/8/2001 6:06:08 PM Having a lurker hanging out in their topics reading their words (which they own and are held accountable for by real names) without knowing who the lurker is is similar to stepping out of your bedroom in the morning and finding a stranger hanging out in the family room. 753. JudithAtHome - 8/8/2001 6:07:29 PM Cal, what do you think is the worst that could happen? I mean, what did you mean by this: 754. JudithAtHome - 8/8/2001 6:08:26 PM Oh never mind...I see I've not been tracking and should just shut the hell up, as usual. 755. CalGal - 8/8/2001 6:08:54 PM Judith, 756. arkymalarky - 8/8/2001 6:09:15 PM Why not bring it up if it's her biggest concern? The worst that could happen from having a name connected with a findable person was depicted in The Jerk already, but being targeted for being listed in the phonebook is not a realistic concern for most people. 757. Absensia - 8/8/2001 6:09:19 PM Is it paranoia or caution? A little judicious "paranoia" is not a bad thing. I had a friend who met some one and fell in love online and went off to meet Mr. Right. No one saw her for almost a year, when her body was found. A rare occurence, true, but it happens. It is, IMO, like looking to see who is at the door before throwing it open. 758. JudithAtHome - 8/8/2001 6:10:14 PM And I happen to think the worst that could happen these days happens to me right here. 759. vw - 8/8/2001 6:10:40 PM I can imagine a lot of reasons why people would be upset over having their TT account associated with their real name through the WELL. In fact I spent a shit load of time today explaining to WELLians who were griping about TTers being very vocally upset why it is an issue. 760. mgleason - 8/8/2001 6:11:28 PM It's too late for the people that took Scott Rosenberg at his word, though and that's what I'd posted about. 761. Absensia - 8/8/2001 6:11:34 PM "It is" being the right to not have your name, et al, right out there. 762. JudithAtHome - 8/8/2001 6:13:22 PM CalGal: 763. CalGal - 8/8/2001 6:16:14 PM And I happen to think the worst that could happen these days happens to me right here. 764. arkymalarky - 8/8/2001 6:18:30 PM No she didn't. She said it was her biggest concern. Anyone who thinks the worst that could happen is a real possibility shouldn't be posting in online forums at all. 765. Indiana Jones - 8/8/2001 6:19:35 PM Well (pardon the pun), what would bother me the worst is a presumption of anonymity and not having it honored. Isn't it true that the Well participants post with the expectation of lurkers? 766. arkymalarky - 8/8/2001 6:22:10 PM "...but you're just a little bit more likely to pick your nose--which is after all a natural act--when you think no one is looking." 767. vw - 8/8/2001 6:22:39 PM Indy, 768. mgleason - 8/8/2001 6:23:06 PM This 'conflict of communities' demonstrates why it was a bad idea to attempt to make TT and the WELL ex post facto Siamese twins. Sometimes I think that there must be an individual at Salon who does nothing but dream up ways to bollix things up. 769. CalGal - 8/8/2001 6:24:05 PM Isn't it true that the Well participants post with the expectation of lurkers? 770. JudithAtHome - 8/8/2001 6:24:08 PM Look, Cal, the only limited imagination around here belongs to you...I'm sure it takes a lot of imagination to perpetuate the persona of bitch but if that is your idea of a lot of imagination, then you've tipped your hand. 771. Shannon - 8/8/2001 6:24:49 PM Precisely--it's fine for the 2 communities to have very different approaches. Given how much those approaches conflict, attempting to merge them seems like a pretty bad idea. 772. CalGal - 8/8/2001 6:25:53 PM The real irony is that at TT there is no privacy protection at all. 773. Indiana Jones - 8/8/2001 6:27:58 PM vw: The best-selling author doesn't know who is reading his or her words either...a la Misery. As society has become nutsier--and at least in this sense it has, because we're more interconnected with many more people, meaning it's more likely we'll bump up against a psycho--it's a little surprising more authors aren't bumped off by people who get enraged (or whatever) by what they write. 774. vw - 8/8/2001 6:29:12 PM There are plenty of lurkers--most of whom have no evil intent at all, but you can't know that for sure. 775. Indiana Jones - 8/8/2001 6:30:58 PM Cal: I meant lurker in the sense of not posting. Not in the sense of anonymous. 776. Indiana Jones - 8/8/2001 6:32:12 PM Got to go. 777. JudithAtHome - 8/8/2001 6:33:14 PM But people at TT aren't secure...obviously anyone can find out who is who or Rosetta wouldn't have continued to be busted in all his idenities. 778. CalGal - 8/8/2001 6:35:23 PM I meant lurker in the sense of not posting. Not in the sense of anonymous. 779. vw - 8/8/2001 6:35:37 PM But on that level Indy, TT doesn’t keep you safe either. If I’m nutty enough it would only take a minimum of hacker ability, a couple scripts and bingo, I at the very least have your official (Salon-read only) email address. That’s without using any number of slips of information people let go in their posts because they believe they are “private” 780. CalGal - 8/8/2001 6:37:32 PM But people at TT aren't secure...obviously anyone can find out who is who or Rosetta wouldn't have continued to be busted in all his idenities. 781. mgleason - 8/8/2001 6:49:01 PM I think you're exactly right about the reason for TT/WELL meld, CG. But I still wonder why so many Salon initiatives are such PR disasters. I know it's easy to have 20-20 hindsight, but boy, they're bucking the odds when it comes to missteps. 782. Indiana Jones - 8/9/2001 8:31:29 AM But that's not lurking. If you know everyone in a closed community, you just assume that everyone in that community is reading you. Hence no lurkers. Lurkers are people that you don't know exist. 783. Francis Urquhart - 8/9/2001 8:41:14 AM I only the read the women, for clues as to how to woo them. For example, I've learned that Ace really just needs someone to listen. To really listen. 784. Indiana Jones - 8/9/2001 8:44:42 AM As far as TT and banning, they ban you if enough of the right people get after you. They will ban you again if you come back and you do anything to that draws you onto their radar screen. They even looked up my IP address and contacted me about it. This last was done when I hadn't had a CS violation under my then login for six months (and they didn't flag me for one then either), so I'm pretty sure it was just from someone who "made it personal." 785. Indiana Jones - 8/9/2001 8:45:46 AM I read Francis only when he posts on something other than movies, politics, or the Mote. 786. Indiana Jones - 8/9/2001 8:46:18 AM Oh, and sex. 787. Francis Urquhart - 8/9/2001 8:49:57 AM Indiana 788. Indiana Jones - 8/9/2001 9:01:58 AM If I’m nutty enough it would only take a minimum of hacker ability, a couple scripts and bingo, I at the very least have your official (Salon-read only) email address. That’s without using any number of slips of information people let go in their posts because they believe they are “private”... 789. rubberducky - 8/9/2001 9:12:05 AM this forum is plenty evidence enough that i'll never openly say who i am. 790. Absensia - 8/9/2001 11:16:32 AM #787 Hyperabad? Ahaan. It was a chilly 35c there today. When were you in Pakistan, FU? 791. CalGal - 8/9/2001 11:23:05 AM Indy, 792. mgleason - 8/9/2001 11:27:54 AM You didn't know, Absensia? FU is a Pakistani Peter Sellers. He likes to watch. 793. Absensia - 8/9/2001 11:29:21 AM Ah hah! Watch what? Or do I want to know? Hahaha. 794. mgleason - 8/9/2001 11:31:43 AM He Explains It All in his thread. I must warn you, though, it's not pretty. 795. bbb - 8/9/2001 12:53:39 PM So TT will have 500 posters with over 1000 threads. 796. bbb - 8/9/2001 12:56:42 PM 797. Indiana Jones - 8/9/2001 1:04:34 PM bbb: Have you tried The Rant? Miranda Kelly is trying to get in touch with you and has emailed me a couple of times looking for you. She asked that I tell you to email her. 798. Indiana Jones - 8/9/2001 5:26:08 PM 799. rubberducky - 8/10/2001 8:35:51 AM $2.5 million is the big deal? 800. vw - 8/10/2001 9:09:16 AM With recent staff cuts, I think longer than 6 months. 801. rubberducky - 8/10/2001 9:09:55 AM do we know who was cut yet? 802. Laura C - 8/10/2001 10:24:20 AM Nobody on the community side. Editorial, sales, design, production, and tech, according to Scott. 803. CalGal - 8/10/2001 11:11:51 AM The last one? I thought Ann and Elizabeth were canned. Has there been another? 804. Shannon - 8/10/2001 11:13:16 AM Yes, there's been another. Yesterday or day before. 805. CalGal - 8/10/2001 11:26:19 AM Yeesh. Well, it wasn't even possible for them to carve the community staff down, so I guess that makes sense. 806. JudithAtHome - 8/10/2001 3:12:11 PM Okay, can anyone else get in at TT? 807. mgleason - 8/10/2001 3:14:32 PM Yep; it's just really slow. I think it went down for a few minutes, though. 808. JudithAtHome - 8/10/2001 3:16:23 PM I'm back on now...everytime that happens, I hear a death knell. 809. Dusty - 8/10/2001 3:19:43 PM I can get into TT, but it has been intermittent all afternoon, along with the Well and other sites. 810. MaxMacks - 8/10/2001 6:15:42 PM Do people still go to TT ?. The place with 811. Cellar Door - 8/10/2001 6:16:28 PM I'm still in there keeping track of my friends. 812. Property of Jesus - 8/10/2001 6:21:42 PM The smartest thing that the owners of Salon can do is to move its Table Talk subscribers to the Well. Cleaning anything involves making something else dirty, but anything can get dirty without something else getting clean. 813. Erinys - 8/10/2001 7:25:08 PM ooh, I might use that clean/dirty phrase at my job. It's one of those simply profound statements a la Peter Seller's gardener in Being There. Might come in handy when I'm talking out my ass anyway; you never know. 814. greg smith - 8/10/2001 7:51:51 PM Does anyone have a link to the well? 815. JudithAtHome - 8/10/2001 7:52:55 PM http://www.well.com/ 816. JudithAtHome - 8/10/2001 7:55:17 PM Sorry... 817. pogie - 8/10/2001 8:23:16 PM Tabletalk has always seemed a bit weird to me regarding pseudonyms. Just from looking at some of the 1996-7 discussions up through the present, the management has either directly or indirectly nudged/suggested people use real names on Tabletalk. A fair number of them and earlier tabletalkers come from the well or bbs-style situations where that is somewhat more feasible, so it has just seemed odd that the emphasis has been on real names *and* full disclosure-style posting while the whole forum is world-viewable. Anyhow, that is just the impression I've always gotten from the people running Tabletalk. Real names are fine if access is limited somehow, but in a world-viewable 'salon' situation, it always seemed a little risky if the discussion topic was the least bit controversial or personal. 818. Erinys - 8/10/2001 8:36:25 PM Yes, quite a few posters signed up with real names because there was no guest access, at first. 819. JudithAtHome - 8/10/2001 8:45:33 PM I just used my real name because it was easier. 820. Shannon - 8/14/2001 4:18:14 AM Hmmm.... TT is supposedly pay-to-post now, and their notice says so. But I'm still in. 821. racehorse - 8/14/2001 8:05:58 AM TT seems to be down now. I was going to drop in to see who is still there, and to gauge the quality of the conversations. 822. mgleason - 8/14/2001 8:20:36 AM An anonymous benefactor was kind enough to give me a gift certificate. I was really touched. 823. Adrianne - 8/14/2001 8:45:23 AM So, it's down? Not just me, I guess? 824. Shannon - 8/14/2001 8:49:52 AM Apparently I wasn't the only non-payer who could still post. And some people who had paid could not. I'm guessing they brought it down to fix that. 825. Laura C - 8/14/2001 8:57:26 AM I can't get in either. 826. Shannon - 8/14/2001 8:58:15 AM Field trip! 827. mgleason - 8/14/2001 8:58:45 AM Laura, 828. Laura C - 8/14/2001 9:03:19 AM No! I like it in here! 829. mgleason - 8/14/2001 9:11:08 AM TT's back. 830. Shannon - 8/14/2001 9:26:44 AM And I can't get in now. 831. mgleason - 8/14/2001 9:29:15 AM Wow, Shannon, you're not living right. That renegade J. Ross just posted. 832. Shannon - 8/14/2001 9:30:09 AM Damn! 833. bubbaette - 8/14/2001 9:32:00 AM I just bit the bullet and signed up for TT/Well -- I'll give it a bit to see whether it's worth it. 834. mgleason - 8/14/2001 9:34:23 AM Oh, you are wicked, Shannon. 835. Shannon - 8/14/2001 9:35:42 AM I will not be outdone by J. Ross. 836. JudithAtHome - 8/14/2001 10:51:42 AM Considering TT has been closed now, I'm not holding my breath that we'll have a huge inflx of new people over here but should anyone show up, welcome and the wagon with gifts and coupons will be by later! 837. bbb - 8/14/2001 10:52:01 AM 838. Indiana Jones - 8/14/2001 11:22:01 AM bbb: The Rant 839. JudithAtHome - 8/14/2001 11:40:18 AM I checked out the Rant. 840. Indiana Jones - 8/14/2001 11:43:09 AM I did too. "Saw" CalGal there as well. 841. JudithAtHome - 8/14/2001 11:49:57 AM I got swiped for posting something about truckers which was said in jest and that was it for me. 842. mgleason - 8/14/2001 11:51:51 AM Ah, Judith, it was probably just a misunderstanding. It's all the same people as on TT, after all. 843. concerned - 8/14/2001 11:55:22 AM Isn't TT finished yet? I don't know what's harder to take: Lefties' standard ideological bigotry or their whining about TT's imminent shut down along with a side serving of political vitriol. 844. Cellar Door - 8/14/2001 11:58:29 AM The political vitriol (and you're a fine one to talk about that, connie!) continues in other forums: Atlantic Monthly, The Rant, World Crossing, etc. 845. Dusty - 8/14/2001 12:15:20 PM Actually, TAP has one of the larger migrations, I believe. 846. JudithAtHome - 8/14/2001 12:15:55 PM Cellar: 847. JudithAtHome - 8/14/2001 12:16:33 PM What is TAP, Dusty? 848. Dusty - 8/14/2001 12:17:01 PM The American Prospect 849. JudithAtHome - 8/14/2001 12:18:17 PM So, do they have a BigBrother2 forum?;-) 850. Dusty - 8/14/2001 12:20:59 PM I haven't been there, but in the TT thread where they were cogitating over where to go, I think TAP was the winner. 851. Dusty - 8/14/2001 12:23:01 PM Sorry, that read wrong. 852. mgleason - 8/14/2001 12:23:09 PM I just didn't want you to get turned off from a potentially enjoyable experience because of one sourpuss, J. Come back; I'll say mean things to you, and you'll like it, by Jove! 853. JudithAtHome - 8/14/2001 12:27:21 PM I'll agree to that, MG...I still have it "faved" so I'll check it out again. You should come over to the Atlantic, too. 854. mgleason - 8/14/2001 12:33:01 PM Deal; I've been meaning to do so. 855. JudithAtHome - 8/14/2001 12:59:29 PM MG: 856. JudithAtHome - 8/14/2001 1:01:29 PM Damn, all this forum hopping causes confusion. 857. JudithAtHome - 8/14/2001 1:08:19 PM Wow....lots of people must have left TT. Usually, one of the threads I subscribe to is 20+ posts ahead ever time I check in there. One post since 10:28am. 858. Dusty - 8/14/2001 1:15:54 PM Not necessarily. 859. JudithAtHome - 8/14/2001 1:26:34 PM Yes, I read that message from him...but this thread I'm talking about is reeeeeaaaalllly compulsive about posting. It was a shocker to me to see no posts there. 860. MaxMacks - 8/14/2001 1:46:43 PM So Salon.com is folding up. 861. Dusty - 8/14/2001 2:09:56 PM See my answer in the next post. 862. MaxMacks - 8/14/2001 2:51:12 PM Can't see it yet , Dusty . 863. Dusty - 8/14/2001 3:34:09 PM ::banging head on wall:: 864. arkymalarky - 8/14/2001 10:31:31 PM How silly is it that you can lurk and read endlessly as a "guest" but that as soon as you try to log in, you're denied access. 865. arkymalarky - 8/14/2001 10:32:18 PM BTW, that was funny, Dusty. 866. MaxMacks - 8/16/2001 2:55:34 PM Oh ,like in the Terry Anderson book , you are 867. bbb - 8/17/2001 10:41:46 AM 868. Property of Jesus - 8/17/2001 1:42:19 PM Hi, bbb. Have we meet? Good link. 869. MaxMacks - 8/17/2001 3:58:21 PM Hey Jesus , you just caught my eye !!! . 870. Property of Jesus - 8/17/2001 4:41:57 PM Oh, Andy was a card, all right. Remember when he/she said: 871. Laura C - 8/17/2001 5:48:22 PM FYI, TT will be down this weekend while they move the machines from Sunnyvale to San Francisco. 872. JudithAtHome - 8/17/2001 6:52:16 PM Masters of Timing... 873. bbb - 8/17/2001 10:38:39 PM Laura C. 874. Shannon - 8/17/2001 10:54:25 PM Oh, what ijits. TT's going down, and there doesn't even seem to be a message on the sidebar or anything. You'd only know if you happened to read the town meeting thread. And they're not going to have a status page while they're down. 875. HollyW - 8/19/2001 5:08:39 PM I started with TT last year, in April. I had a three month old and was increasingly more disgusted with magazines like "Mothering" and "Parents" and "Hip Mama"...my mom was told about Salon, specifically the Mothers Who Think section, and passed that on to me, and I started to read the articles on my creaky, slow old computer. I found myself relating to quite a few of them, and gradually looked into Table Talk. 876. JudithAtHome - 8/19/2001 5:15:28 PM It's nice having you here, too, Holly... 877. Shannon - 8/20/2001 9:56:14 AM Just as an FYI, someone just posted at TT that they got a $1900 charge on their CC from The Well. 878. JudithAtHome - 8/20/2001 10:16:06 AM I hope it was one of those who reeeeeeeeellllly loves TT!!! 879. bbb - 8/20/2001 10:30:10 PM 877 Shannon, 880. HollyW - 8/21/2001 11:36:12 PM Judith, thanks. Clearly I won't be on the Third Watch thread come fall--is there anywhere else where people are discussing the show? Are we the only ones on the Mote who watch it? 881. Adrianne - 8/22/2001 11:57:18 AM 882. CalGal - 8/22/2001 11:58:04 AM hahahahahaha. 883. Adrianne - 8/22/2001 11:59:22 AM 884. Shannon - 8/22/2001 12:02:57 PM I double dare you. 885. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 12:05:40 PM Holly: 886. Laura C - 8/22/2001 12:07:30 PM Double barking dog dare you. 887. bbb - 8/22/2001 12:09:04 PM 881. Adrianne - 8/22/01 4:57:18 PM 888. Adrianne - 8/22/2001 12:10:29 PM 889. Adrianne - 8/22/2001 12:11:33 PM 890. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 12:12:00 PM Maybe he means banned posters are not offering amnesty to TT? 891. CalGal - 8/22/2001 12:12:09 PM I don't know. It's tempting. The delicate psyches, the tender egos. 892. Shannon - 8/22/2001 12:14:31 PM Such restraint, CalGal. 893. bbb - 8/22/2001 12:18:13 PM Who is going to grant amnesty to TT?! 894. CalGal - 8/22/2001 12:21:37 PM I don't usually read that thread--in fact, the only one I check up on still is DSWC which I do mainly to torture myself because there are still people there who need beating, badly. (and grateful I am that Ad and others always come through, even though they're nicer than me) 895. Adrianne - 8/22/2001 12:23:40 PM 896. CalGal - 8/22/2001 12:28:21 PM Well, two pregnancies can do that.
@}--}---
Some people do get careless and make the same mistake over and over. That can be a pain, but usually, other Motiers try to help out when a mistake is made.
I sometimes forget to close italics, btw.
Toy Story
In WebX and other forum software, the system cleans up after you. We should probably get around to doing that some day, but think of all the lightweight coders we're creating!
Guess that was a while back.
How many members do we need to keep TT going?
We don't want to announce a specific goal but the pricing we've set means that TT can keep going with fewer than 1000 members. We'd obviously love to have more. If there are more members that means Salon can devote more resources to stuff like getting a search engine going, improving service and so on.
We are not expecting revenue from TT to keep Salon solvent or support any other operation within Salon. We do want TT to pay for itself.
I should think 1000 members at $120 a year ought to do it...surely.
Reminds me of this:
N
Like the rose. Where have you been hanging out lately? Missed you at TT after I left the politics folder.
If you are the person whom I believee you are, please drop me a few lines by E:mail. You may still have it. If not, mail me at:
s.everet@mailexcite.com.
Also, Everet is the give-a-way...right? Hee. Hee. 
Lots of Leftist political idiocy & hate speech with a fair amount of cliquishness there plus the threads were controlled by overzealous, ban-crazy, brain-dead, acolytes of Goebbels with real Nazi attitudes, but, aside from that, a better than expected proportion of the posters were literate and some few even erudite.
b,b,b. Don't mix that Ethynol too rich now. HaHaHa. Cathy Renae Ivewrson said for me to tell you hello for her. She's back in Africa performing her duties as a Registered Nurse.
Tends to substantiate the theory that Salon was destined essentially coeval with Clowntoon - an online support group for the WH Rapist, if you will.
I wonder, vaguely, if I paid up for a TT subscription, whether they would still ban me within 48 hours.
Whatever the case, there's no joy in Mudville tonight, not least because it seems likely that there'll be no Mudville soon.
Tony Karp - 05:34 pm PDT - Jul 28, 2001 - #15 of 26
Salon Premium member -- Two year membership + $25 donation
Clinton was the greatest president in TWO different centuries!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
karen lamb - 05:37 pm PDT - Jul 28, 2001 - #16 of 26
I paid 6.50 and received the hearty thanks of a greatful nation
Hooray for him and hooray for us. He'll make shrub look like a tumble weed in comparison.
If these people want to isolate themselves from reality as it appears, I don't really care to get in their way.
I've told them all about you, and they can't wait to get in and tear you limb from limb.
I actually emailed a poster on one thread that I frequent, who had said that she would be leaving. Sent her my credit card number, name, DOB, SS, and the whole thing, said, "I don't want you to go - use this information and buy three months and see how it comes out - it's too early to decide".
I got a nice email back - she decided not to do it, for extraneous reasons.
Extraneous?
Yeah - 'cuz she's in Hawaii, dude.
On your dime.
The unfounded assumption (by so many!) that GWB had this Hatfield fellow offed probably goes beyond any assertion in the CC wrt unlikelihood.
I've never read the CC, btw, but, compared to the loose TT I'm seeing, it wallows in relative integrity.
Nothing so amorphous as the typical TT rationalization of: 'I just know in my heart that the rotten, corrupt chimpanzee in the WH would have no higher response than to have Hatfield killed for telling the unvarnished truth. Suicide? Surrre. No cause to believe in foul play? Right.'
I am the worst president ever
( Subscribe | Discussion summary )
George W. Bush - 06:12 am PDT - Jul 27, 2001
Just another dumbass with an office job.
I suck, and I know it. I'm just in office to funnel cash to my oil buddies.
Let's get a few things straight here. 1. I had Hatfield killed. 2. I had an affair with an underage Mexican prostitute. 3. Laura will not give me head so I keep side meat for the oral experience. 4. I'm still drinking. Christ, I down a liter of Kentucky Gentleman a day.
Sheesh.
Zee Miller - 05:00 pm PDT -Mar 31, 2001 - #19 of 2195
Now is the time for all good men to come to. ---Walt Kelly
Hairball,
The fuckwads are ALWAYS the thuglicans who ALWAYS initiate both the personal insults and the physical assaults in real life protests.
WHY? Easy. They can't defend BWUCK BWUCK chicken George on the issues.
Could all these Lefties be suffering from some form of Tourette's Syndrome online, or do they always talk like that, as mgleason is pleased to hypothesize?
And then they're trying to hold Pinocchio Bore up as some sort of intellectual deity, when his only claim on such was an SAT aggregate which was well over a hundred points lower than mine. Bore suffers, also from an abysmal educational record, receiving a 1.95 GPA at Harvard, flunking out of Vanderbilt Divinity School and dropping out of Law School.
Since this is the intellectual bar that Lefties aspire to, I think people can safely discount their slurs in such areas. 
whether Repub or Dem,
I've discovered lots of crooks,
amongst all of them."
I'm not that interested in someone giving me a gift certificate. I am unemployed, but still it makes me feel ooky.
But on a more serious note, folks, I think we should all give some serious consideration to what's at stake here. Table Talk is going to be foilding, and so is "Salon" (I can hear the cheers from the Conservabot peanut gallery already)
And dull.
There's potentiallyalot more action possible in a place like The Mote --provided connie doesn't freak out and treatincoming potentialposters as if they were all secret agents for the DNC.
Outside of "Gay Politics" I'd given up posting in TT's Political forums some time ago. I can get all the screaming I want right here with connie and Ace.
I would hope some TT refugees try The Mote. What they might do once in here I have no idea. But it's worth considering the notion that an influx of New Blood will alter the atmosphere.
Once hopes for the better.
It's the last reel of "Titanic" over there.
I hate to disappoint but it appears, from what I've seen, that there will be quite a bit of LW screaming and foaming that will go gurgling down the loo when the powers that be fold Salon's tents and go off into the night counting their earnings.
But there are other aspects to all of this. The editorial quality of "Salon" has dipped way low over the past year. Bush hasn't inspired them the way Monicamania and Impeachment-O-Rama did. And Horrorowitz and Camille are real tired.
Don't we have enough "gifting" already with Sully?
Go to "Ehrensteinland" (www.ehrensteinland.com) and read my article "Sullivan's Travails." You'll find it in the "Library."
Did you design that site? Well done!
Haven't gotten to the color galleries yet.
Demand the posters who bring in the ad revenue to pay for their "service" ?
That's why free sites like this one are so important. There are fewer and fewer places on the net where people from all walks of life -- and classes of society -- can speak with each other. That the real loss re TT, in my view.
For the commercialized sector,CNN/NYT/Washington Post/MSNBC boards are better business models.
But there's always a free alternative. Has there been any talk among TTers about the usenet? I hope some folks do come over here, and I'm sorry that the registration stuff is messed up right now. I've received a suggestion for a fix that may get resolved in the near future.
How do people like this as an alternative?
The Mote is a lot smaller place than TT, which means that partipants run into each other more than they would in that forum. Still, I think if there is a thread that covers an area that your interested in, you'll probably find like-minds (and contrarian ones, too).
Hope you stick around and check it out.
My regrets to Urquhart, to bureaucrats of the British public schools, and to anybody who took that post in a tone that I did not intend. 
BOOGA! BOOGA! BOOGA!
Salon founder David Talbot must have had a hell of a summer fending off the grim reaper at one turn and corporate suitors at the next. But then, just as it began to look like Salon would either fold or be sold, a bag of money landed on Talbot's doorstep, with no editorial strings attached!
On August 2, Talbot told me, 'We're in the final hours of completing a new round of financing that will assure not only our survival during this very tough year, but our eventual profitability." He plans to announce full details later this week.
Also, did I hear somewhere that the stock is up to $0.47?
i have no idea what kind of membership the have for Salon premium
Since Salon first began selling subscriptions to "premium content" this past April, he says, the site has attracted some 12,000 subscribers who are paying an average of $33 a year. That means an additional $400,000 so far.
WHOOPIE
$120 per subscriber x 1,000 subscribers = $120,000 annually.
Has anyone figured out exactly what it is they're providing for that money? Server space, discussion software--and a moderator. If you provide your own moderation, WebCrossing will basically cut out the Salon middleman for about $6,000/year (up to 300,000 page views/month). That includes everything else Salon is taking care of for you--hosting, license, 99 percent guaranteed up time--so with 1,000 posters, each would have to pay $6 per year. 50 TTers could pull it off at the Salon rate.
Regardless, I don't think TT is worth Salon's time at 1,000 posters. Maybe at 10,000. I bet a couple of good corner newsstands would gross $120,000 annually.
I'm highly skeptical of the VV article. As I've mentioned before, I worked for a person from all appearances very similar to Talbot. So far, the Salon MO has been virtually identical--including the rumored last-minute white knight(s). If you were riding in with a bunch of capital for SMG, would you like to hear that Talbot wants to take a long vacation once he gets your money?
That's all you need to know right there. With origins and slopes like that, the two ought to converge around--what?--a few hundred bucks? If Talbott can just cut expenses that far....
Unreal.
Here's what they said in the Town Meeting:
Timing: We had announced that tonight was cutover time. There is likely to be some delay, ironically this is in part because the gift certificates are so popular and we don't want to close the gates on people who are paid for but haven't yet signed up. More on this soon.
I checked into the WELL right after I signed on for my first and only month and it was so weird, I haven't been back.
how slanderous!
are you suggesting that a TT staffer was less than accurate on how things would go wrt Salon & $$$???
Am.
Outraged.
(or, so i hear)
Thanks for sharing.
Not quite. You have to remember the WELL is a gated community. They value their knowledge of the legitimacy of each user through ID verification as passionately as TTers value their anonymity.
It’s not evidence of an evil empire, Nazi denomination or any number of other evil motives various people have been attributing them. It’s simply a different philosophy on how communities can work online.
The WELL philosophy is based on the belief that if people use their real names inside the protection of the community that they are more likely to behave in a responsible sensible manner because they can be held accountable for their posts. This is hard to argue with given the bullshit that goes on in TT where any ass wipe with a little email knowledge can log on under any number if user IDs being wrecking havoc in the threads and generally being a moron. Good lord, how many TT accounts has our dear friend Rosie held?
I’m not going to argue which approach is better; both philosophies have their pros and cons. But attributing malicious intent to people that simply hold a different POV on how online communities should be run is rather silly.
It is the close tracking of individuals, even those who are only reading, and not participating in discussions, which seems excessive to me, and reminiscent of a police state. I have attributed no malicious intent.
This tracking is also contrary to the assurances given by TT staff when privacy concerns were raised.
That’s almost right. It is true that Scott misspoke when he said the only way a WELL user would know who you are is if you post. That’s incorrect. There is an area on the WELL where New User Reports are posted. It’s basically a big list of the new user info (user ID, real name, account activation date, contact email address) that is produced by running a UNIX shell script. Most people in the WELL don’t bother looking at it. The few that do seem to be less motivated by interest in individual users and more in geek info on the state of the system WRT users.
This only causes a problem if you sign up at the WELL and create a WELL ID that can be associated with your TT account. So if you are named Squeaky Toy on TT and you use Squeaky Toy as your WELL user name some could look up the past New User Report and find out that Squeaky’s real name is Bertha Banks and make the connection with Squeaky Toy on TT and figure it out.
If that’s a problem, the solution is to not create a WELL user name that has any thing to do with your TT name. Squeaky/Bertha could maintain her anonymity on TT by using a selecting the WELL name Digit of Doom. People looking on the WELL would know that Digit is Bertha, but there would be no way for them to associate that with anything Squeaky on TT has posted in the past or posts in the future.
Make sense?
For some the concern is not merely being associated with their TT name, but having their real name, e-mail address, etc. available to anyone who wishes to access that information.
I never said it was the worst that could happen but I'm not given over to paranoia so....
Okay, mea culpa for the malicious intent stuff ... I've been reading it all day from doom and gloomers at TT sure that someone is going to wade through WELL archives and find out their email address so they can spam them for the next 8 years. But be fair … calling them a police state is also a bit over the top.
But there really isn't any close tracking ... I'm sure it seems “close” relative to TT standards. But New User Reports in gated communities are pretty standard stuff. Again, keep in mind; the only people that see it are people who are also subject to the same exposure of info. You know who they are also. That’s part of the WELL philosophy, knowing who each other is keeps people honest.
even those who are only reading, and not participating in discussions
Here again is one of those conflicts of community. One of the big concerns for WELL denizens is lurkers. Lurkers squick out WELL members almost as much as having your real name attributed to your user name does TTers. Having a lurker hanging out in their topics reading their words (which they own and are held accountable for by real names) without knowing who the lurker is is similar to stepping out of your bedroom in the morning and finding a stranger hanging out in the family room.
Simpler even still ... stay out of the WELL. They can't track you with UNIX scripts or finger commands unless you walk through. Definitely don't get a Picoscan account and telenet into the WELL. Using their Web interface Engaged makes you almost invisible to the system ... something that makes the WELL folks very uncomfortable.
Judith, you said: I have nothing to hide in either and if I act like an ass and people want to hound me over it, fine.
If that isn't the worst that you think could happen, then why bring it up?
"I'm going to climb Mt. Everest and if I catch a really bad cold and have a red nose, fine."
"I'm going to mid-town Manhattan, strip off all my clothes and run around naked, and if someone tells me I have a boil on my ass, fine."
"I'm going to fuck fifty men a night for the next three years and if I start to walk a little funny, I guess I can cope."
BTW, saying you're not "given over to paranoia" implies that "the worst" that other people envision couldn't really happen. In fact, all it means is that you have a limited imagination.
vw: IMO this balances the "police state" hyperbole.
Think, for example, about a best-selling author.
Right, like that's the worst that could happen, Judith.
Ah, so you *did* think it was the worst that could happen. So why did you say you didn't?
But there really is (as usual) a lot over dramatization, hand wringing and the sky is falling proclamations over the issue.
The 'police state' remark was merely a gibe, BTW, although I do find that level of concern about lurkers a bit paranoid.
The day you understand one thing I post will be a banner day. I'm not going to bother to explain what I meant because you read what you want to and understand what you want to and misunderstand what you want to. Nothing is going to change that.
As I said. A limited imagination.
Why not bring it up if it's her biggest concern?
She's welcome to. I only told her that it wasn't the worst that could happen, and then she protested that she didn't say that. But of course, she did.
I agree with Absensia, and as I've mentioned before, I worry more about the wackos I can't see than the ones I can. There are plenty of lurkers--most of whom have no evil intent at all, but you can't know that for sure.
One may as well write one's name and number in indelible black marker in the men's room of Grand Central Station. Or at least a very seedy bar.
It would really tick me off if I thought I had privacy and didn't. Anyone who believes in Internet privacy is engaging in wishful thinking, of course, but you're just a little bit more likely to pick your nose--which is after all a natural act--when you think no one is looking.
Part of the attraction for the Web to me is the ability to try on new things without anybody (most of the time) getting really hurt, evaluate those things, and then discard or keep them with minimal pressure to "conform."
Not me, but I like to show off. I do agree that you should know going in whether you're rl name is available to public view and that seems to be where they messed up.
I don't feel that way about lurkers myself ... I'm a hell of a lot more flexible about all this community shit (having been on so many frickin’ boards at this point, who wouldn’t be!) than most of them. Some of them who post nowhere but the WELL are a bit insulated from the big bad world of wide-open forums.
But yes, they get as overwrought with their fears as TTers have been. I've been yammering at them all day trying to get them to understand that TTers have been posting for years with the promise of privacy ... now suddenly they are losing their community AND risking a certain amount of exposure to keep what’s left. Most of the WELL folk have dialed down their own rhetoric now that they understand why some many TTers are upset.
Think, for example, about a best-selling author.
Okay, explanation please for those of us being dense?
I don't think so; you can't even read without an id.
For example, on TT posters frequently said really terrible things about columnists and other media figures. (We've had a couple of posts like that here, as well.) Unlike politicians and even Hollywood-types, these folks don't have a lot of security.
And that is the primary difference between the WELL and forums like the Mote and TT. There are no lurkers on the WELL. Everyone knows or can know who everyone else is. Their reality is one where you know who has been in what thread, you know who has read your words. That’s why they are so confused over TTers demanding the right to lurker. It makes no sense to them and is the exact opposite of how their system runs.
They rely on the security of knowing that only people they “know” can read their posts. TTers rely on the security of knowing that nobody knows who anyone is at any point, so post as you will.
As for merging the two communities, I wouldn't rule out the possibility--and someone other than me has likely said this already--that this is really just a way to move TTers to the Well.
I just can't fathom Salon keeping TT going for a lousy $120,000 per year (gross). Unless they see it as feeding something else, but what?
But that's not lurking. If you know everyone in a closed community, you just assume that everyone in that community is reading you. Hence no lurkers. Lurkers are people that you don't know exist.
I've gotten a whole bunch of emails from people who I didn't even know existed before I heard from them. In all cases it has been friendly contact, but the notion that there are lots of people out there that know who I am--but not vice versa--is something I consider worth being cautious about.
I think vw describes the different communities very well; I think both Maria and Shannon point out that the differences are exactly why they shouldn't have been combined.
But I think Indy's question, about why they bother for $120K, is an answer to mg and Shannon's objection--they bother because the $120K is an addition to an already profitable enterprise (the Well). It will cost very little to maintain within the infrastructure.
The WELL is actually “safer” relatively speaking because the only people that enter the system are fully paid, registered gave their address, phone number, credit card number blah, blah, blah…unlike TT, where any monkey with a keyboard can log on simultaneously with 8 different pseuds.
That has nothing to do with why they aren't secure. In fact, if Stone didn't spam them so relentlessly they probably wouldn't delete him as often. Generally, if you are banned and come back they won't ban you until you openly acknowedge who you are.
The reason TTers have no privacy is because anyone can post your name, email address, street address, phone number, picture--anything at all about you--and Salon won't do anything about it.
I disagree. First, the traditional definition of lurker just presupposes a lack of active contribution--not that the person is "unknown to exist." (Note, for example, "subscriber to a mailing list." Or for that matter, every chat room I've encountered--which I'll admit is a limited sample--shows everyone in the room, and lurkers are just those people not saying anything.)
Moreover, I certainly don't assume everyone at the Mote is reading me--and am pretty sure they're not. Too many times things come up here that have been explained elsewhere for people to be paying close attention to what everyone else is saying. Either that, or we have poor memories.
Lately, with the circle of posters and quantity of posts tailing off, this might be less true than in the past. But speaking from personal experience, I seldom read more than about half a dozen threads here. I'll occasionally look into others when the name at the top draws my attention. At other places, that users have subscriptions reinforces the (obvious) case that not everyone is reading everything. I don't know whether the Well has ENUF like TT, but I assume it has subscriptions.
Second, I don't think the sysops were necessarily consistent. So even if in Rosetta's case or my case they handled the situation a certain way, it doesn't mean that they had a "policy."
He does know a lot about gardening, though.
Essays on my heady days in Hyderabad are pretty readable.
vw: I wonder about that at WorldCrossing. Judging by some complaints, they seem to have a buggy system in which people are suddenly hosting threads (temporarily) that they shouldn't be or strange bits of information appear on the screen that shouldn't, etc. TT has "almost" my real email, and I think I might have used the same at WorldCrossing, which I sort of regret now (because they will take any email address).
As far as the Well being safer, I think eliminating lurkers (as in Cal's usage of the term) does help. But a couple of caveats: 1) Incest breeds more vitriolic emotion than does casual acquaintance. Compare the number of fights among diners in a restaurant versus at the family dining room table. (Or look at this place.) When people use pseuds or don't really know each other, they may get nastier, but they don't take it as personally as when someone you've posted with for six months and knows all about your family is calling you an asshole by your real name; 2) true nutcases are more likely to want to know something that appears privileged and secret IMO than something out in the open. (The last is a minor point in terms of what we're discussing, though.)
i wouldn't want a certain freaky queen from, say for example, AZ coming to OH should it be out.
if people can't control their own information, then they need to take steps to remove themselves from situations from which that info is freely available. TT/WELL being a prime example. i mean, why believe these people in the first place when the staffers posting have been shown to either say what they've been told or have been sold down the river so Salon Inc. can maintain some distance?
TT and banning has nothing to do with privacy, since TT has no privacy requirements.
As for whether or not everyone actually reads everything--and of course they don't--it's not the point. The Well wants to know the closed set of people who can read what they wrote. I'll accept your correction on lurkers, but nonetheless, it is the category I am referring to that the Well worries about and eliminates.
Hmmm.......
She also mentions she's been over at WorldCrossing. I don't know if she's at the Rant or not, because I haven't been there, but Gene Smith says that's where he is and that a lot of SFBR people have established a similar thread there (including your nemesis DH).
how long will they burn through that? 6 months max?
more dead posts in more discussions than
were ever necessary
Thanks, Property of Jesus!
(filing it away for future use)
The Well
Then there was a big shift a while back - perhaps a year or so ago? where a lot of posters truncated their last name to an initial, or completely changed their logins to bbs-style.
When I first started reading there, most of the posters used their real names.
I remember Ace bitching about how long my name was on here and thought I'd use the real one there to be easy.
How brilliant. Their first day as a pay service and their down.
But it's really not a good omen.
I'm not rooting for them to screw up, but I had a hunch this wouldn't go smoothly, if only because of their persistent tendency to do and say exactly the wrong thing at exactly the wrong time. I feel like flying out to SF and shaking some sense into them.
Did you pay, Laura?
I was about to post something eerily similar. Get out of my head!
Shannon, I paid. I am justifying it as a chance to explore the Well.
I'm poking about in the WELL, too.
sob
OK, I will. He's way funnier than I am. But still.
Gene, Miranda, Bart, Joni, Dimmit, and DH are all there. (But you'll have to join.)
Saw Rufus W on PI last night...he's adorable.
MG:
I rarely get off the TV threads on TT so "the same people as on TT" aren't all the same people as I'm used to. And just as TT people claim we are insular here, so are the TT people...whether on the Rant, WC, or TT.
And yeah, it probably was only a misunderstanding but I lurked on some other threads and didn't get that "compelled to contribute" feeling. Maybe I would on a different day, who knows?
It's too partisan for me.
I did go there once to check it out, before the decision to move over. So I did check out some of the threads, saw abysmal ignorance, and haven't been back. I haven't been there since the TT'ers migrated in bulk.
They were very nice about adding "& Television" to their Film forum and have my Sopranos thread listed on the front page of the discussion forum.
http://www.theatlantic.com/pr/
Post & Ripost
Wolfy has been working on the changeover, and it was unavailble for a bit.
Some may have wandered off for a few minutes when they couldn't get in.
I read elsewhere that everyone (they call themselves freeloaders) is having a hard time even lurking.
Just came here for the news and saw a link to
The Rant.
Went there .Curious. How does it work.?
Too many nasty people at TT for me to handle.
Nasty is the nicest word I can come up with.
Left long time ago.
What is TAP?
Hope to.
tapping the answer with your head Dusty?
Someone needs to start a discussion at Table Talk regarding T.S. Eliot's famous line/poem.
No, not the obvious one about the world ending with a whimper but: "Humankind cannot bear very much reality."
With only 207 to 500 regulars paying, posting and whinning about "the twilight," it's going to turn vindictive very soon.
Such a let down. As recently as two years ago, Salon's PR people claimed that over 80,000 people were registered as Table Talk posters.
And they all couldn't have been Andy.
It was some asshole posting as "Andy."
who drove me out of Salon TT long, long ago.
And not just him only, but I remember him the most and the worst.
"Roses are red, violets are blue, I'm a schizophrenic, and so am I."
Kareoke machines?
The mind boggles.
I was hooked for a while, and it was helpful to me on so many levels. I now have more information about childrearing and pregnancy then I think I want to know, to tell the truth. It was nice to feel some connection to a lot of other people, as I was living in a rural area 100 miles from my family.
I mostly stayed in the MWT folder, with occasional forays into other areas. I lurked about half the time.
Late last year I started getting bored with it. I was working full time and had moved back to the place I grew up in, by my family. I was feeling a lot more confident about my ability to mother and seemed to be at a place where I didn't crave so much feedback. The conversations seemed to be getting more chatty and the in-speak was increasing, and I'm not interested in that sort of thing. My participation dropped off after the first of the year to the point where I even stopped lurking.
It's funny to think of it as going going almost gone, though. I visit Arlene's The Rant now, which is a facsimile of TT, so far. I don't feel compelled to post there, though, so maybe I'll wander away from there too, eventually.
Some of my favorite posters ended up here on the Mote after the Great CalGal Purge, so I've been here. The Mote seems to suit me much better, although I feel uneducated compared to most of the people here...er, maybe because I am.
I still like it here.
A deep well?
HaHaHa!
There's a rumour that TT is offering amnesty to banned posters.
But then, even the notion is bizarre. Amnesty? Like if I signed up and paid to be a well member they could ban me?
Don't know. I dare you.
I have a Third Watch thread at the Atlantic; not very busy now but I'm hoping to hook some new watchers when the season starts. Come on over...it's free and easy to use.
I'm also hoping to rope more Moties into watching it...
The reverse is NOT rumored.
HaHaHa!
?????
I don't get it, sorry?
?????
I don't get it, sorry?
But it may be that they're just asking us back to get our money and then ban us. No, that's too paranoid. They wouldn't do it for the money, just for the precedent.
Someone sent me a note about the abortion thread at TT. They are upset because in the worldcrossing thread, I happened to be reading it when GLO announced that she felt bad about her child dying, but that she had to kill some of her children so that others could live.
They were upset at my reaction. Don't I know how to be supportive when women talk about their grief at killing their children?
So apparently they went back to TT and clucked. I just read it. Most amusing. Some are confident that they can persuade Arlene to ban me from the Rant for the good of the community and to give them a "safe place" to be supportive. (one, to their credit, said look, I hate her too, but gut up and deal.)
Anyway. How long would I last with that sort of thinking? Although I haven't called anyone a menopausal hyena in weeks.
I was going to email you and ask if you'd read that thread.
Believe it or not, I do think people should be allowed to be unhappy in peace, so I don't barge into a thread and smack folks. But that comment made me bonkers--and then there are people who justify it and tell me I must be some sort of ethicist!
oh, sorry bbb, I'm thick.
(runs, ducking)
897. Shannon - 8/22/2001 12:29:13 PM
tell me I must be some sort of ethicist!
{{{{{{{{{{CalGal}}}}}}}}}}
There, there. hairpat People shouldn't be so meeeeeaannn to you. You deserve a supportive, safe place.
898. Adrianne - 8/22/2001 12:29:39 PM
Three, but who's counting.
899. CalGal - 8/22/2001 12:31:35 PM
Oh, lord. I knew that, too. I'm sorry, Ad.
900. CalGal - 8/22/2001 12:32:09 PM
Yes, I'll start a thread for frustrated ethicists.
901. mgleason - 8/22/2001 12:35:07 PM
I almost posted in TT's abortion thead last night, but as I was possessed by the spirit of godless clif, I was afraid of doing serious damage.
902. Adrianne - 8/22/2001 12:36:30 PM
GODLESS CLIF!
No harm no foul, CG. I don't mind it being mentioned. I'm getting a lot better about it, actually, and so is IF. Acknowledging her is good for us.
903. CalGal - 8/22/2001 12:38:05 PM
Ad,
I'm glad it's getting better, but I just sent you a note anyway. I should know better than to mention pregnancies as a counter anyway, for exactly that sort of reason.
904. CalGal - 8/22/2001 12:38:47 PM
And I must be upset because I said "anyway" and "better" twice. Or is that just lazy writing?
Anyway....where is this supposed amnesty program?
905. Adrianne - 8/22/2001 12:42:43 PM
I don't know, I just saw a post referring to it. I'm looking for it, myself.
Hotmail won't let me send anything (that happens sometimes, for some reason) but again, no problem.
906. Laura C - 8/22/2001 12:43:49 PM
That thread really pisses me off because it's so inconsistent. But I never know what to say to people whose feelings are all. If you yell at them, they shut you out. If you express partial agreement, that's all they hear. If you try to be calm and logical, they wilfully miss the point.
I haven't seen any official references to amnesty yet.
907. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 12:45:45 PM
Go into Town Meeting and ask about it...they're just acting goofy in there now so it wouldn't interrupt anything.
908. rubberducky - 8/22/2001 12:46:12 PM
has the issue of banning been addressed at all? will they refund $ if banned from TT/WELL?
909. mgleason - 8/22/2001 12:55:07 PM
The most repellent feature of the post to which CG refers (it's been deleted, BTW) was the presentation of a decision made for convenience as a Solomonic choice, or an Abraham and Isaac moment. People make tough decisions all the time, and I don't grudge them whatever emotions are called forth, but the self-serving arrogance of that statement stunned me.
910. bbb - 8/22/2001 1:03:00 PM
908. rubberducky - 8/22/01 5:46:12 PM
has the issue of banning been addressed at all? will they refund $ if banned from TT/WELL?
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
1)some potential for conflict-of-interst practice charges
2)check it with the Better Business Bureau and FCC
:-)
911. JudithAtHome - 8/24/2001 1:04:36 PM
I just canceled my subscription to TT...there are hardly any people left there and it seemed stupid to pay another $6.50 to keep getting the "no new messages" page...ces't la vie.
912. MaxMacks - 8/24/2001 1:23:24 PM
Here might be a place to divest myself of
and old issue with Salon TT.
They used to squeal like a stuck pig if someone
began a new discussion/thread and yet I could never get them to answer a question I used
to have frequently. viz. why would they
keep over a 100 discussions in a folder
when only about 20 were current and had messages?
913. JudithAtHome - 8/24/2001 1:26:34 PM
Max:
They are probably wondering why they did a lot of things the way they did, these days...
914. MaxMacks - 8/24/2001 1:28:30 PM
So whats happening there @home? Is Salon going belly-up or just Table TAlk?
915. JudithAtHome - 8/24/2001 1:40:09 PM
Max:
I've no idea...it's just not very busy on TT. I haven't read Salon in some time...I think they might be on summer slowdown, though.
916. Absensia - 8/24/2001 1:41:19 PM
Max, I posted the url for the Rave for you in the notices and suggestions thread.
917. JudithAtHome - 8/24/2001 1:48:38 PM
Rant...
918. Absensia - 8/24/2001 1:49:43 PM
umm...yeah that's it...blush
919. bbb - 8/24/2001 3:31:57 PM
Was Chandra Levy a TT poster?
Both are MIA.
920. MaxMacks - 8/24/2001 3:48:24 PM
So it was you Absensia....Do you go there under
your missing name?
I went and even registered and was having fun
writing a story with other people.
But then the earlier part of this collective
gem began having words deleted/missing.
It probably was only my computer that has the words missing.
Computers in general and my computer specfically
does not like me and behave very very badly on occassion.
Not only that but my computer has people posting that SUCH THINGS NEVER EVER happen to them.
This of course only adds to the frustration.
(*sigh*)
921. Absensia - 8/24/2001 3:51:42 PM
No, it wasn't me, but I had seen the Rant url somewhere so went and found it.
My computer does such things to me...and of course, never to anyone else, grrrr.
922. MaxMacks - 8/24/2001 3:52:11 PM
somewhere, someplace I heard of a Forum
called Down the rabbit hole.
anyone have any info on this or others like it?
923. bbb - 8/24/2001 4:07:00 PM
Ask Condit!
924. MaxMacks - 8/24/2001 4:12:11 PM
Condit , Condit? Is that the congressman who
says he didnt murder girl friend?
925. bbb - 8/24/2001 4:16:23 PM
The one who ANSWERED every question from the police with " I want to go to the bathroom".
926. Cellar Door - 8/27/2001 4:44:18 PM
Joe Scarbrorugh hasn't said anything about the dead broad in his office.
And the medical reports are being. . .withheld.
927. Gene Smith - 8/29/2001 12:29:57 AM
Condit is getting deeper and deeper in trouble from a political sense especially.
928. Gene Smith - 8/29/2001 12:31:38 AM
One thing for certain; we all know how long he's been married. 34 years. (:^)
929. Toenails - 8/29/2001 10:42:50 AM
I don't know or care anything about TT, but unless I'm mistaken, the postings right 'cher on the good ol' Mote are falling off, quite a lot, in recent days.
Maybe I'm wrong, since I spend little time on many of the threads, but the ones I do visit frequently seem to be near-dormant much of the time. Is anyone in a position to look into this factually and determine whether I'm just mistaken, or whether it's just August I'm observing? ...Or whether perhaps The Mote is itself going into decline?
930. CalGal - 8/29/2001 11:05:20 AM
It's as slow as it has ever been, although the last two weeks seem a pickup from the 2-3 weeks before that. But it was also incredibly slow last August--don't know if it is slower than that still. We talked about this in the Policies thread (subthread in Suggestions).
931. concerned - 8/29/2001 4:12:42 PM
906. Laura C - 8/22/01 5:43:49 PM
That thread really pisses me off because it's so
inconsistent. But I never know what to say to people
whose feelings are all. If you yell at them, they shut you
out. If you express partial agreement, that's all they hear.
If you try to be calm and logical, they wilfully miss the
point.
OTOH, if you get on their good side, they are the definition of blind loyalty, which explains Clowntoon's popularity and the Stepford Wives.
932. Toenails - 8/29/2001 6:19:19 PM
Maybe it's time, Concerned, to ease up on Clowntoon and start looking for ways to defend the Village Idiot who's in charge now.
933. JudithAtHome - 9/1/2001 2:28:26 PM
The latest:
Salon Stock Transferred to Nasdaq SmallCap Market
934. MaxMacks - 9/1/2001 2:36:52 PM
Hey @home . that is a most interesting link
. I assume you bought a few thousand shares for 12 cents and sold em for two dollars!!
935. JudithAtHome - 9/1/2001 2:43:25 PM
Ha! Sure, Max...and with the profits, I bought the Brooklyn Bridge from some guy in Queens.
936. MaxMacks - 9/1/2001 2:49:19 PM
Well, @home ....win some , lose some , eh?
937. Property of Jesus - 9/15/2001 2:45:51 PM
Spudboy's thread in TT is attacking the dead Barbara Olson.
Pretty tacky.
938. wabbit - 9/20/2001 3:54:53 PM
Banks, please email me at viwabbit@yahoo.com.
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