GJ,
So what if he put blood on his cheeks? Upper class Brits do it after a fox-hunt. It was meant as an ironic thing, you know, a Lord of the Flies type thing.
1. glendajean - 2/16/2001 4:26:40 PM
Voices: La-dee-dah-dah-dee-dee-dah
DRUM BEAT
2. Fielding - 2/16/2001 4:28:05 PM
Where should I post a rant about Survivor?
3. rubberducky - 2/16/2001 4:29:29 PM
Philosophy and Religion
4. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 4:32:51 PM
Okay, Cultural Throwbacks, Professor Lowbrow here. Settle down, now, and put the gum under the desk like we taught you. In keeping with our status as the refuge of the Great Unwashed, there will be precious few rules here and they will be vigorously enforced.
Rule One: Spamming and flaming will not be tolerated. Violators will be laminated, then surgically attached to the shorts of Strom Thurmond.
Rule Two: Survivor-haters are welcome and, indeed, encouraged on one condition. Lament the show and criticize it to your heart's content but utter not a syllable against any who enjoy it. I'll bounce you so fast, buddy boy, you'll be the first person in the Twenty-Second Century. Why, I'll hit you so hard I'll kill your whole family.
And remember, as always, no wagering.
Done.
5. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 4:35:25 PM
The Evil Cabal of the EXTREME Court formed a corrupt Voting Alliance to vote Al Gore off the island and hand the presidency to Govuhnuh Death McPoopstain.
The BushShit has hit the fan.
6. PelleNilsson - 2/16/2001 4:36:21 PM
Aytchman is one of the funniest posters on the Mote when he feels so inclined.
7. Fielding - 2/16/2001 4:40:54 PM
"I'll hit you so hard I'll kill your whole family."
Timothy Daly, Diner
8. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 4:41:26 PM
Thanks. Pelle. I prefer to think of it as a treatable condition.
9. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 4:45:03 PM
H Man:
Are you going to move our earlier discussion over here from Movies&TV?
10. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 4:46:35 PM
Funny-- "9021Ogakor"
11. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 4:48:02 PM
judith--
Yep, although I don't know if I do it or Cal has to. I'll check.
12. CalGal - 2/16/2001 4:52:18 PM
I can do it.
13. RosettaStone - 2/16/2001 4:54:25 PM
This thread is another example of the dumbing down of mote.
I protest.
14. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 4:55:24 PM
Yes Rosetta but you showed up here, did you not?
(The lure worked, guys!)
15. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 4:56:08 PM
cg--
Fire when ready.
16. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 5:00:12 PM
Um, Survivor...
We'll hold off on starting the pool until we're a little farther along. However, in the meantime:
In light of what we've learned from the original show, what's the best strategy? Will a repeat of Richard's strategy work again?
And for the more elevated posters (real or imagined): what's the significance, if any, of the shift in the demographics of the contestants?
17. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 5:07:26 PM
I think the men are smarter...well, some of them...and the women less so than last year.
We haven't seen much alliance making on the Roos thus far but Richards strategy won't work with the Ogres because they are all backstabbing lone wolves, no matter how much they seem to be offering strength in numbers.
18. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 5:09:52 PM
"And for the more elevated posters (real or imagined): what's the significance, if any, of the shift in the demographics of the contestants?"
There is no major shift. The original Survivor had plenty of cute young boys & girls, too, and lots of blossoming busom-candy in bikini tops.
We forget much of that cheesecake now, of course, because all the really delectable pieces of ass were eliminated in the middle of the game; we got used to seeing Susan Hatch, Richard, Rudy, etc.
But let us not forget the tasty Colleen, nor the Cute-if-you-don't-know-her Jenna, nor Stacey, the Girl with the Huge Hooters who Ate the Bugs.
S1 also had lots of young men... who got voted off, because they were dumbshits.
I admit that a few of S2's men are a lot more muscular than S1's. But that's not really a demographic shift.
19. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 5:11:52 PM
Aside from the leg wounds festering with vile carnivorous insects, Colleen really was an adorable dish.
20. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 5:13:30 PM
Not as cute as Elisabeth, though...
21. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 5:15:11 PM
ace--
But the average age is substantially lower. Survivor I had three or four people over 60 (Rudy, Sonya, BB). Version II doesn't have any, I don't think. Coincidence? I think not.
22. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 5:15:58 PM
Colleen is/was cuter. Elizabeth is cute; she's the Colleen of S2. But Colleen is the original, and is the world-champ of cuteness.
Too bad, though, their dumb tribe never figured out the whole "alliance" thing until it was too late.
Salon had a funny bit of commentary on this. Something along the lines of the Revenge of the Middle-Aged: "We're older, fatter, slower, weaker, but goddamnit, we're a whole lot smarter than you Cute Young Morons."
23. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 5:17:34 PM
"But the average age is substantially lower. Survivor I had three or four people over 60 (Rudy, Sonya, BB)."
Aytch:
"Over 60" is obviously too old for this game, dude.
Marilyn and Rodger are almost 60. But come on. Old Folks are just no damn good at athletics.
24. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 5:18:45 PM
MAdDog was 52...not quite 60, Ace.
25. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 5:19:48 PM
She looks 60.
You add her enormous pendulous boobs to her age to come up with an Effective Age of 60, as far as athletic events.
26. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 12:26:25 PM
Juditha
Well, I'd been rooting for Mitchell to be kicked off since before last week, so I wasn't surprised. I was more surprised last week that he wasn't the one eliminated and Mad Dog was. This tribe has made some very bad decisions, mostly because of that woman Jerri and her plotting.
Honestly, this show brings out the worst in human interactions, I think. Selfish, vengeful, petty, and downright exploitive.
The pig scene was a kick, though, as was the chicken killing. I really cannot abide any of the characters on this show except Elizabeth and Roger, but of course, they will be long gone before it's over.
27. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 12:39:21 PM
Those 2 are too good to be involved on this show, MsIT...I love them but I like Keith, too.
I am torn between wanting Jerri to stay and loose a lot of weight and end up looking haggard and wanting her to booted early. She's fun as the evil princess but with her little dogsbody Mitchell gone, she has only one ally...the non-Amber.
I think next week will be the other teams turn to boot someone out...can't decide if it will be Kimmi or Michael.
28. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 12:48:48 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot about Keith.
He had a classic comment last night about Jerri. Very biting.
I think Jerri is toast even if she survives to the merger. In fact, that whole tribe will be systematically eliminated when the merge occurs, they're outnumbered now.
Michael is a pain in the ass, and while I loathed Kimmi from the start, she's beginning to wear well on me. I want to see that guy Jeff and that schemer Alicia booted ASAP, though, so Michael is lower down on my list of least desirables.
29. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 12:59:30 PM
Oh, i just mentioned Kimmi and Michael as people I think the others will boot...my choice would be Kimmi or that guy who designed the kitchen...I can't even recall his name. And Jeff is worthless but I like his bitchiness.
I can't stand Kimmi because I think it's unreasonable to judge the others for eating meat. She should just shut up about her preferences when people are starving. Instead she calls her whole team disgusting just because SHE doesn't eat meat. I've been on both sides of this argument and I was obnoxious when I was a vegetarian...and I was wrong. (And she looks sickly in her coloring, even before they started running low on food...she's not a very healthy vegetarian, trust me.)
Yeah, all the others are toast at the merger...I personally like Keith and Colby but the rest on that team can fly for all I care.
30. PsychProf - 2/16/2001 1:02:57 PM
I'm gnna go and shoot Frank Miller...
31. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 1:07:50 PM
PP:
Okay, how do you explain that one? And how about my lust for a pearl handled pistol in the Rants thread? Are we becoming a more violent community?
32. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 1:18:34 PM
Juditha
I'm not a fan of Colby's either, wouldn't bother me to see him eliminated, but I think he's likely to make it to the end of his tribe.
You're thinking of Nick from the other tribe. He seems quite unappreciated by his colleagues....
33. Francis Urquhart - 2/16/2001 1:22:14 PM
I will admit to being in error on this reality TV show. While I did not find the first Survivor to be that interesting after a few viewings, this one is great, and I don't miss it now. All the characters are fascinating, and it is great to see the one tribe disintegrate into nasty politicking (I only like one person on that tribe - Keith) while the other one (of whom I like everyone but the whiny vegetarian - she's roadkill) is eating chicken, fish and pig.
34. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 1:31:18 PM
Ha
I find the tribe you like best to be fraught with whinning characters, of whom Jeff tops the list. I do like Roger and Elizabeth, however, and Michael has his moments.
The losing tribe is decending into self-induced chaos, and watching it does induce a certain morbid fascination.
35. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 1:32:54 PM
FU:
Welcome aboard. Did you really think we were all making a big deal out of a show that sucked?
Colby rocks. He stood up the scheming harridan Jerri.
Next week, Jerri and Colby might just try to eliminate each other. Surely they see that the writing is on the wall for one of them.
Re: The other tribe
How adorable is that blonde chick?
I'm glad that the tribe didn't make too big a deal out of killing the pig. I was all prepared to be angry at these pussies for whining about killing the cute pig (he was cute-- but he was also dinner), but they sure ate the pork when it was offered to them.
No one mentioned trichinosis. I wonder if it occurred to them that pork has to be cooked very thoroughly to kill the parasites.
I hate that whiney, pussy "Jeff." I loved how the little city bitch mocked Michael's plan for hunting pig ("Sure, he's gonna catch a pig. Sure"), and I like seeing him proven to be a big pussy.
I like the black guy, too. First I hated him (he seemed a Gervase-type slacker), but that "Once you have dark meat you never go back" won me over.
Although I do wonder. That pig seemed very much like the mantis that blunders into a column of South American army ants in a nature documentary-- in other words, planted there by the filmmakers for dramatic purposes.
36. PelleNilsson - 2/16/2001 1:35:34 PM
The winner of last year's Survivor here (where the concept originated) has managed to stay in the limelight by filming himself fucking Estonian prostitutes and calling the result a "documentary on the sex trade in the Baltics".
37. Francis Urquhart - 2/16/2001 1:36:42 PM
Ace
Colby is smart, but I think she'll get him. I think she'll fuck him, literally and figuratively.
I like Jeff, even though he's a puss, because he's funny and he has a nasty streak, like when they start killing animals, he's always looking at that whiny "I can't eat brain" ass-kisser, like, "Whoa. Look. They're gonna' kill a pig."
The other team, however, is by far the most interesting, because they are devoid of any real physical or mental skill. All they have is sharp political knives. And all they do is scheme. So, save for Keith, I'm happy to see any of them eat the worm.
38. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 1:37:58 PM
No one mentioned trichinosis. I wonder if it occurred to them that pork has to be cooked very thoroughly to kill the parasites.
With the way they bitched about the rice being over cooked, I doubt they would undercook anything. Besides, Rodger was a farmer...he probably knew it had that potential.
The pig could've been disoriented from the fire...
39. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 1:38:21 PM
FIRES...
40. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 1:38:48 PM
more than one going one.
41. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 1:47:22 PM
"The winner of last year's Survivor here (where the concept originated) has managed to stay in the limelight by filming himself fucking Estonian prostitutes and calling the result a "documentary on the sex trade in the Baltics"."
GOOD FOR HIM! Now that's the way you do it.
"The other team, however, is by far the most interesting, because they are devoid of any real physical or mental skill."
Eh, that's silly. Most of these challenges are pretty much 50-50 competitions. Totally random outcomes. Like the silly quiz this week. The losing team is just on a bad streak.
42. Francis Urquhart - 2/16/2001 1:51:09 PM
Ace
You're right.
Mitchell was loaded with skills (the guy was on the verge of a nervous breakdown). Same with dumb ass Kel, who couldn't even lie. And the super smart, super talented cop woman. She could do plenty as well. And the thin-nosed blonde, who screwed cop woman, but couldn't eat a cow's stomach. These people consistently fail when it is gut-check time.
At least the one weak link of the strong tribe, the non-meat eating puss, has the skill of being a supplicant who makes sure all the water cans are filled and all backs or lotioned.
43. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 1:51:28 PM
Who I despise:
Kimmi
Jerri
Jeff
Mitchell, although he redeemed himself by bowing out.
Who annoys me:
Michael, for "thanking God that He made me the leader of this tribe." WHAT?!?!
Jerri is dead meat as soon as the tribes merge. Jerri and Colby will go first (One first, the other second; the exact order doesn't matter), then the weaker members will be taken out. (Although, who knows, maybe Mitchell the chef can actually offer the tribe something if he has meat to cook.)
Amber has a nice rack but she will soon be gone.
Kimmi is dead; she just hasn't stopped moving yet.
The black guy, the black girl, the old man, and the adorable blonde are all actually contenders.
44. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 1:53:31 PM
"Same with dumb ass Kel, who couldn't even lie."
He didn't lie.
Where the fuck would he have gotten the beef jerky from? Surely you can't bring your own food to the contest. And since the other tribe's cargo-crate contained no beef jerky, why do you think Kal's crate contained jerky?
And how the hell did he manage to palm the beef jerky as the entire tribe -- sixteen eyes looking on -- unpacked the crate?
Silly. Jerri lied. There was no beef jerky.
45. Francis Urquhart - 2/16/2001 1:55:01 PM
I like Tennessee Bob; I like the hunter dude; I like Keith; I like the black girl.
I dislike Jerri, the pencil-nosed blonde, and the vegetarian.
Everyone else is okay.
46. Francis Urquhart - 2/16/2001 1:55:50 PM
Ace
Understood. But come on. I meant, when he comes up and starts to kiss ass and extends his hand and offers his razor.
What a fuckin' toad.
47. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 1:56:52 PM
"And the super smart, super talented cop woman. She could do plenty as well."
Well, Old People are always a problem in physical challenges. The "Good Tribe's" old geezer (Roger?) fucked up in the physical challenges, too.
48. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:02:39 PM
Ms,
You said Alicia -- who I THINK is the black chick with the incredible six-pack -- was a "schemer."
How so? I haven't seen her scheme at all. Have I missed something?
49. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 2:04:56 PM
Although, who knows, maybe Mitchell the chef can actually offer the tribe something if he has meat to cook.)
Keith is the chef...Mitchell is the 7 foot tall twin of Sean Hayes.
50. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:06:21 PM
JAH,
Yes, I have made that mistake twenty times now. My girlfriend knows that when I say "Mitchell," I can either mean Mitchell or Keith.
51. Francis Urquhart - 2/16/2001 2:06:45 PM
Ace
Tennessee Bob/Roger is an outdoorsman (hell, without him, they probably couldn't get the damn chickens they won in the crate). He has offsetting skills. The cop just ran her mouth about how pencil-nose was her special bond-mate.
52. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 2:07:18 PM
I haven't seen her scheme at all. Have I missed something?
Yes, she planted seeds in Jeffs mind that Debb was getting ready to vote him off in the first show...she's very shrewd.
53. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 2:08:22 PM
Ace:
Now that Mitchell is history, it ought to be easier for you!
54. PsychProf - 2/16/2001 2:09:10 PM
Ace desires Mitchell?
55. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:09:59 PM
"Yes, she planted seeds in Jeffs mind that Debb was getting ready to vote him off in the first show...she's very shrewd."
You're *completely* mistaken. She told Jeff that Deb was organizing a coalition to vote him off, yes.
You know why she told him that?
Because Deb WAS organizig a coalition to vote Jeff off. They showed it all, it was all caught on tape. She was telling people that Jeff "wanted" to be voted off, so that "he could go home and have a pizza."
Debb said all that. She was outrageously, flamboyantly, giddily lying her ass off.
So Alicia ratted her out. What of it?
56. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 2:10:12 PM
PP:
No more...he's a thing of the past.
57. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 2:10:23 PM
Okay kids, Professor Lowbrow here. I'm prepared to begin to commence to start to initiate the 2nd Annual (Sorta) Survivor Bake-off. If at least four or five Moties are interested in vying for bragging rights, I'll start up the contest after next week's show.
And, as for the current crop of Survivors, how much dumber than the first batch are they? Hoo-uhh.
58. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:11:03 PM
That's why I was disappointed that Debb got voted off... she would have been a lot of fun. You can't beat someone saying, "Jeff told me he WANTS to be voted off so he can go home and have a pizza."
59. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 2:11:44 PM
Hey, don't jump on me...that's the way I feel about Alicia...she can be dangerous. Just wait. You'll see.
60. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 2:13:00 PM
H Man:
Count me in...I did pretty well last time.
61. Francis Urquhart - 2/16/2001 2:13:35 PM
Cal
Can you put the names and descriptions of each SURVIVOR on the right side? I'm confused.
62. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:13:59 PM
But JAH,
Alicia was simply telling Jeff that Debb was scheming against her, and telling the most ludicrous lies to convince others to vote against Jeff.
Alicia told Jeff the truth.
If we were in the Survivor game, and I told FU that "Judith told me that she wants to be voted off so she can go home and eat pizza," wouldn't you like FU to relay that to you?
Go home to eat pizza. Criminy! What a RETARD!
63. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:14:44 PM
"What a RETARD!" refers to Debb, not Judith.
64. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:15:47 PM
Judith:
See the "New Thread and Suggestions" thread.
65. glendajean - 2/16/2001 2:18:43 PM
Kel was the cutest. Too bad they killed him off.
Based on last year's program, I assume Jerri will probably go far. As will Jeff in the other tribe. The more annoying, the more likely they'll hang around.
The smaller tribe is the more advanced in forming alliances, but unless the other tribe is totally stupid, they'll get picked off quickly after the merger.
The bald headed Michael is, uh, a little "Lord of the Flies" crazy.
The veggie Kimmi is grating (as is Jerri) and I'd vote against either of them if I had the choice.
The cowboy auto guy from Texas may be smarter than he looks.
66. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:19:03 PM
Incidentally, it occurs to me that we could pretty easily set up our own Survivor. Immunity challenges would be conducted through quizzes. Participants could email each other secretly to lobby & form alliances.
Could be a fun experiment. Could be boring as hell. Who knows.
67. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:20:47 PM
GJ:
I think that good-looking, muscular men are too often assumed to be vapid pretty boys. (I know I face this predjudice every day of my life...)
But Colby *IS* canny, as much as I'd like him to be dumb.
But the die has been cast. Colby's tribe is too few in number now; they will all be eliminated in turn when the tribes merge.
68. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:22:49 PM
GJ,
Kal is a fairly serious conservative, by the way. He gave an interview to the National Review, who interviewed him after learning that NR was his favorite magazine.
69. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 2:23:48 PM
Ace:
I may try to get you picked off before next tribal council...going behind my back about the pizza like that! For shame...
70. glendajean - 2/16/2001 2:24:36 PM
He showed the first sign of intelligence by voting with Keith and the woman with the Tennessee accent.
Of course, by then it was too late to make an alliance (as you point out -- they're dead meat at the merger). OTH, they will be more skilled at counting, which is the main survival skill, something many in the first season never learned until it was too late.
And he was right about them kicking Kel out. They needed his strength for the endurance tests. They kicked him off and the very next test, the funny cop lady Marilyn was a drag on them (she fell down and they had to carry her).
71. PsychProf - 2/16/2001 2:26:19 PM
I'm glad Mitchell took the tubes...he was about to die. Have the rest of them been picked for stupidity?
72. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:27:48 PM
Colby voted against Kal. That was dumb.
One, because Jerri was obviously lying.
Two, because Kal could have been useful.
Three, because there's no point in voting for Kal if everyone else is... I think Colby should have used that vote to vote for Jerri. Just a shot across the bow, to let her (and the other members of the tribe) know that Jerri is "in play," and that there is a standing vote against her.
73. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 2:28:59 PM
GJ:
They ran that course stupidly, if you ask me...they should have put two stronger people in the back to help MadDog when she fell. Instead, they had only one guy and Tina, the skinny accent, running back there. Tina actually hit MadDog in the head with her knee as she fell...they aren't too swift on that team.
74. PelleNilsson - 2/16/2001 2:30:22 PM
Should we have a Survivor thread hosted by Aytchman?
75. glendajean - 2/16/2001 2:31:14 PM
His name is Kel. I didn't know about the National Review stuff, but I sam him on the Rosie O'Donnell Show. He was quite fetching.
Here's the CBS Survivor link.
I don't know if it is still around, but the www.survivorsucks.com was pretty enertaining last season.
76. glendajean - 2/16/2001 2:31:36 PM
sam=saw
77. glendajean - 2/16/2001 2:33:50 PM
Judith -- they should have voted Jerri out or the Tennessee woman who went through Kel's backpack out. Kel would have been useful. Dumb, dumb.
I forgot Colby voted against Kel. Last night he did say he thought it was a mistake for them to have kicked him out. And he was thinking strategically when he voted against Mitchell, something of a surprise, I assume, to Jerri.
78. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 2:34:28 PM
Pelle:
Yes, please.
79. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:35:57 PM
A chat with Debb clears up the Ace/Judith dispute, to some extent:
loopy: Did you have other reasons for voting Jeff off, other than him being sick?
Debb Eaton: I was running around trying to convince others to vote for Jeff, because he was sick, and in the Jungle only the strong survive. He made a statement to me that I took literally, "I want to go home." We all want to win. And the only reason I voted for Jeff was because he was sick. To vote against the weakest player; and it was either going to be Jeff or Rodger, because Rodger couldn't swim. But Jeff was sick.
80. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:39:42 PM
Kel on beef jerky:
Kel Gleason: Hello everyone, and right off the bat, there has been no beef jerky anywhere in my life now, and there was no beef jerky when I was out there!
81. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 2:42:44 PM
Ace:
I wasn't disputing with you...you asked why MsIT said that about Alicia and I said it could've been blah blah blah which is a reason I personally don't care for Alicia and you started in on why I am wrong wrong wrong and now it is a dispute? I never said to you Debb didn't do that; I just said I don't care for Alcia and think she is shrewd in the way she does things.
So who are your picks for the final 4 and the final 2 or do you want to wait til next week before deciding...I think I'll wait to see if Jerri bites the dust next week.
82. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 5:26:23 PM
Oh, I see...and Kimmis perky D-cups are subtracted from her age...got it!
83. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:52:23 PM
Here's a thought:
Maybe Jerry isn't in such bad shape at all. Consider that the "Big Tribe" is sooooooooo big, and will likely be very big at merger, that it might actually splinter into two rival voting alliances.
Which would make Jerri's alliance competitive.
And which would explain why Jerri's getting so much air-time.
Egad!
84. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 5:27:36 PM
JAH:
Kimmi has large breasts.
Marilyn is wearing helicopter pontoons on her rib-cage.
There is a difference.
85. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 3:26:09 PM
On why I don't like Alicia...
I don't like her attitude. Everytime she speaks it's as if it's killing her to have to be in the same group as the others.
She and Jeff go off and scheme, and then whine. What turned me against both was on one of their walks they purposely fingered Elizabeth as someone they have to get off before the final four. The reason? She could actually beat them.
Fuck 'em both.
And in last night's quiz, she was the only one who couldn't get a right answer until the very end, and I think that was sheer luck. When Jeff pointed that out, she got all pissy at him. "Gee, thanks for pointing that out to me."
She's a whiner and a schemer.
Finis.
86. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 3:32:21 PM
MsIT,
Reading the survivorsucks.com site, I see that you are not alone in having a bad opinion of Alicia.
I did not know, for example, that she and Jeff got together to complain.
I've missed stretches of the show... since Alicia isn't on too much, I guess I missed her few moments.
Okay. Fuck her. Anyone who's buddies with Jeff "There's no fish in that river" PussyBoy is definitely on my shit-list.
87. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 3:34:19 PM
Ace:
You are sooooo easy!:-)
88. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 3:37:27 PM
JAH,
Well, the Survivorsucks.com site has informed me about Alicia. I honestly just never saw these parts.
For the last two weeks, I've been cooking dinner during the middle third of the show, and I guess I missed all of Alicia's bonding sessions with the sniveling Jeff.
89. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 5:30:22 PM
Wow...Message # 82 was in response to Message # 25 .
90. Francis Urquhart - 2/16/2001 3:44:47 PM
Which one is Alicia?
91. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 3:46:31 PM
The black chick.
92. Francis Urquhart - 2/16/2001 3:47:23 PM
She's awesome.
93. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 3:50:06 PM
She's an FOJ (friend of Jeff) who's conspiring to vote off the Adorable Elizabeth.
Apparently, both Jeff and Alicia are useless, and have sought each other ought for that reason.
94. glendajean - 2/16/2001 4:04:09 PM
I agree about Alicia and Jeff.
Of course, as much as one doesn't like it, it takes conniving or making alliances to win the damn thing.
At least Richard in the first edition had a plan to his conniving. He was very upfront about it from the beginning. I didn't want him to win, but when it came down to him and whoever the whining woman who was left, I didn't care much.
But frankly, I think that Michael guy has gone native, so to speak. Did you see him put the fresh pig's blood on his cheeks. I can see one doing that to send Kimmi over the edge (that would be sport).
95. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 4:05:36 PM
GJ,
So what if he put blood on his cheeks? Upper class Brits do it after a fox-hunt. It was meant as an ironic thing, you know, a Lord of the Flies type thing.
96. CalGal - 2/16/2001 5:37:14 PM
Okay, that's pretty much it. I apologize if I missed some or included too many. The move function isn't nearly as easy as the conversation function, and I can only move them singly or in groups.
Also, Aytch, here is Survivor from Start to Finish, the conversation from the first show, if you want it for the butterscotch bar.
97. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 5:37:49 PM
Thanks, Cal.
98. CalGal - 2/16/2001 5:39:45 PM
My pleasure. It looks like it will be a great thread.
99. Uzmakk - 2/16/2001 6:59:23 PM
Missed all of Survivor 1 and it looks like I'm gonna miss all of Survivor 2. Western civilization will survive.
100. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 10:10:59 PM
cg--
Thanks.
101. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 10:19:18 PM
Uzmakk--
We are counting on the few like you to rebuild after the Collapse.
102. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 10:56:23 PM
Is everybody aware of the suit against CBS filed by Stacy Stillman from Survivor I? Stacy, the grub-eater who took the extra one for the team? Stacy, the only lawyer on the island? What's up with that?
103. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 10:59:03 PM
Yes, I'm aware of it, just not the details. I seem to recall shes claiming something about fraud? Or manipulated results?
I'm not sure how that's a legal issue, unless there's something in the contract they all signed promising no tricks.
104. JadeGold1 - 2/16/2001 11:01:08 PM
A Survivor thread?
You do know the show's rigged, don't you?
105. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 11:01:13 PM
What I meant was, I don't think this could be a case of fraud.
Then there was something about her input being used and then not being given recognition? I don't know, I'm pretty vague on it all.
106. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 11:02:52 PM
That's it!
She's claiming the show was rigged. But rigged how? So that ugly, creepy Richard came out the winner?
Can't imagine them being that stupid given his lack of appeal with the public viewing audience. I seem to recall most wanting to see him kicked off from almost the beginning.
107. JadeGold1 - 2/16/2001 11:07:34 PM
Of course it's rigged. If it boggles the mind that Richard Hatch won in the first series, think about Rudy coming in third. Old Rudy did nothing but act confused and grouse about the smutty talk.
Remember, you're only seeing what the producers want you to see. How do you think they get the contestants to say snide things about one another?
108. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 11:10:28 PM
I dunno Jade
That's a bit too conspiracy theoryish for me.
Rudy was a favorite with lots of people, and frankly, he stayed below the radar for a long enough time so that when the tribes merged, the weaker one could be picked off one by one. You don't need a conspiracy theory for that one.
But how that ratfink Richard stayed on is a mystery.
109. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 11:14:30 PM
Hi msit--
She's claiming that Mark Burnett (the producer) urged a couple of the other contestants to vote her off the island to save the last remaining old player (Rudy). I'll post a link to the story in a minute.
110. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 11:15:54 PM
USA Today Story on Stacy's Suit
111. CalGal - 2/16/2001 11:18:14 PM
Was Stacy the evil bitch lawyer who had a tendency to speak for others? "We've decided" this and that?
112. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 11:22:19 PM
See, I didn't think she was evil. Her sin was in trying to talk about strategy and alliances well before anyone wanted to acknowledge they were scheming, including that ratfink Richard.
113. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 11:23:37 PM
And one might ask, how did I know this after proclaiming that I didn't watch Survivor last summer?
Because I did watch a few of the early scenes when it was rerun again in the fall.
Ohhh, my bad.
114. JadeGold1 - 2/16/2001 11:25:11 PM
Not a conspiracy theory. But clearly the producers can "nudge" the contestants in certain directions.
It's easy. Just pick a contestant who's hot, tired, wet, bug-bitten, and hungry and ask their feelings about a certain contestant. Repeat as necessary.
A good illusion is never overt. It is misdirection.
115. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 11:25:14 PM
cg--
No, I thought she was seen little, heard less and quickly dispatched (third off the island).
As I wrote somewhere else:
"Stacey -- No harm, no foul. Other than taking one for the team with those beetle larvae, Stacey left no discernible trace on the American consciousness. First of the Kids to go, she simply faded into the South China sunset."
116. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 11:27:19 PM
And Hey back H-Man
Thanks for hosting this thread, too. I was wandering around last night looking for a place to blow hot air about this show because I was afraid it had been nixed in TV.
Calgal said I could go there, however.
I'm sure this is going to be a weekly fix for me, and may keep me interested in the show far longer than I would have been without the cheerleading section to watch.
117. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 11:29:03 PM
As to nudging, I can go with that. I just don't see how that's a viable claim against CBS. Would be hard to prove, I'd think.
118. JadeGold1 - 2/16/2001 11:31:55 PM
Regarding the recent pig kill, has anyone seen such a docile pig?
I've seen domesticated pigs that had more sense. Oh, and by the way, how did the cameras manage to film the pig making his way into the camp? They managed to film the pig for a long distance.
119. CalGal - 2/16/2001 11:48:08 PM
Ms,
Yes, that's the person I was thinking of. I remember the fuss when she spoke of alliances and "we" and that she was considered bossy, when it turns out that this was in fact reality.
There was no problem with Survivor in TV; that's where it went last time. But it does have so much interest it seemed obvious to give it its own thread.
120. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 11:52:51 PM
jade--
I don't know whether the pig was a plant or not but it's safe to say there was some level of manipulation going on in Survivor I. Jeff Probst's injection of the subject of alliances into the Tribal Councils was blatant.
But I think that, in light of the show's phenomenal success, more than a little of this would be very stupid. And, by all accounts, Burnett is a very bright guy. Still, you never know...
121. JadeGold1 - 2/16/2001 11:59:35 PM
You see the same sort of manipulation in Survivor II. Probst is goading the tribe that keeps losing the various "challenges."
I don't think the producers start with a plan to make a certain contestant win. However, as the time progresses, the producers are certainly winnowing out the less-interesting.
122. MsIvoryTower - 2/17/2001 12:02:58 AM
I dunno Jade
I was completely taken with Mad Dog Marilyn, and Kel could have been quite interesting had he been around a bit longer.
If I were CBS, I'd be worried about another winner like that Richard dude, who was so unappealing, such a creep, that I heard people actually booed when he won. It's got to be a concern that only the truly ratty people hang on til the end.
123. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:06:43 AM
MsIT,
Rich wasn't such a bad guy. He was playing the game. He wasn't especially two-faced about it, not beyond what the game requires.
I mean, in poker, you bluff, right? And if you bluff, you're not a "liar," right? It's part of the game.
Now, the skeezebag Kelly or whatever her name was-- the runner up. Now there was an odious person.
124. AytchMan - 2/17/2001 12:08:13 AM
At this point, I doubt the producers are actively favoring one player over another. I'm sure they're stage-managing to inject drama into the show. But if they're directly affecting a particular player's situation, they're both suicidal and terminally stupid.
125. MsIvoryTower - 2/17/2001 12:10:09 AM
Ace
What burned me about Richard is that he was plotting all along to form alliances, yet when Stacy wanted to discuss these issues upfront, he was all about kicking her off in wounded offense.
Nor do I believe he was upfront about it at all. He was upfront to those he chose to include in his little group, but the others were completely clueless, and he made no attempt to be honest to them.
In short, he was slime. Worse than Kelly, who was better than Sue, who was on par with Richard.
126. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:17:12 AM
"At this point, I doubt the producers are actively favoring one player over another."
I believe the contest is already over, and has been for some (short) time, Aytch.
127. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:19:16 AM
"Nor do I believe he was upfront about it at all. He was upfront to those he chose to include in his little group, but the others were completely clueless, and he made no attempt to be honest to them."
Duh-UHHHH, Ms. Of course not.
"Hey, guys? I just want you to know we've formed an alliance, and we'll be voting en bloc. So, you know, to keep it fair, you should really form a counter-alliance and vote against us.
"We wouldn't want to take undue advantage of our advantage, after all."
128. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:22:23 AM
"Hey, Defense! Just wanted to let you know that even know we're lining up for a punt, it's a FAKE punt, and we'll actually be running the ball. The holder is going to pitch it to tight end, who'll be doing an end-around. To the right--right, OUR right. Your left. So get your guys over there on the left. We wouldn't want to actually fool you with this fake punt-- wouldn't be sporting, Old Man."
129. AytchMan - 2/17/2001 12:25:11 AM
ace--
Already over? Please explain.
130. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:27:27 AM
Aytch--
The game is already over. They're just editing the footage, now.
This is what happened in Survivor 1, if you remember. The game had been over for a month or two before the last shows were broadcast.
All the Survivors are already home. Aren't they?
Maybe I'm remembering wrong... maybe the actual, real-time contest ends about half-way through the run of the show.
131. MsIvoryTower - 2/17/2001 12:29:01 AM
Well, then, in what way was he open and upfront?
One can say he played a game, that he had an objective, but not that he was in anyway honest or open about it, except to a chosen few, who could have gone and told others, but became his minions out of sheer self-interest.
I say they were all weasels.
132. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:29:40 AM
In SI, they showed a lot of Richard in the early shows for a good reason... because the producers already knew he'd won. So, in editing the shows, they featured lots of Richard.
Conversely, they didn't feature too much of Greg, Jarvase, Colleen, Jenna, etc.
133. MsIvoryTower - 2/17/2001 12:31:13 AM
It's true that the game is already over.
One of the things that's been interesting is how tight-lipped all the contestants have been about the results. CBS was absolutely shrewd in their payout scheme, ensuring that no one got paid before the show aired. Now that's the power of money.
134. AytchMan - 2/17/2001 12:33:03 AM
ace--
Oh, sure. I know they wrapped it up some time ago. I just talk about it present-tense. I thought you meant the winner was a foregone conclusion at this point.
135. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:37:41 AM
"Well, then, in what way was he open and upfront?"
I didn't actually say he was. I said that he wasn't "particularly two-faced, given the requirements of the game."
I found his candor about being in it for the money refreshing. I am SICK TO DEATH of hearing these PC, PR weasels claiming they're in it "for the adventure" or "for the experience" or "for the team" or the other fucking bullshit.
Eh. Richard didn't screw over anyone who had reason to trust him. Even when he voted against Susan in the end, Susan KNEW he was voting against her. (She voted against him in return.)
Kelly, on the other hand, was just a repulsive person. She tried buddying up to people, tried to manipulate them.
I don't see Richard as a manipulator, per se. Rather, he offered his Voting Alliance a rational reason to vote together (until the very end, of course). That's not "manipulating" anything.
The only person he manipulated was Rudy. Rudy trusted Rich. But that's Rudy's own stupid fault. How the hell can you trust your opponent?
Answer: You can't, and if you do, you're a dumbshit douchebag who deserves everything he gets.
Further, Rich was fucking SMART. He deliberately lost the last challenge (the one vs. Rudy and KellY) because he knew that:
-- Kelly would pick him as the last person going into the final round
-- Rudy would ALSO pick him as the last opponent
-- and he couldn't win the last challenge, for if he won, he was duty-bound to pick Rudy; but then, he couldn't pick Rudy, for Rudy was more sympathetic than Rich and would win the game because of this. Rich would want to pick Kelly, who was more loathesome than he. But he couldn't pick Kelly, because that would betray Rudy and therefore lose Rudy's crucial vote, which he needed to win the game.
So what did he do? He deliberately lost, so he wouldn't have to pick at all.
Smart.
136. MsIvoryTower - 2/17/2001 12:42:05 AM
We'll have to agree to disagree.
Personally, I thought he was scum.
137. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:44:12 AM
Maybe you think he was scum because he rolled over a participant you liked.
I didn't particularly like any of the contestants, except the sweet Colleen, so I didn't care too much when the Juggernaut Alliance destroyed everyone.
Actually, I found it wickedly amusing to see all the ratfucks eliminated. (Except Colleen; but she was cute, not bright.)
138. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:45:49 AM
Oh-- I also liked Rudy, of course. But of course he couldn't win.
Rudy and Rich are just a script shy of a buddy cop action adventure movie.
139. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:50:57 AM
In any event, Ms, you can't campaign endlessly on Richard Hatch's so-called "scandals." There's a new Survivor contest, in case you haven't noticed, and Richard Hatch isn't competing.
It's time to let go of your hate and just move on.
140. MsIvoryTower - 2/17/2001 12:54:22 AM
Ha, that's pretty funny. I'd watch Rudy in said film but not Richard. I am repulsed by Richard.
Here's a story that reminds me of why.
There were two islands that were situated close enough for people to see one another, but far enough away that they couldn't easily cross.
One day a young girl is walking along the beach on island 1, when she sees a handsome young man on the other island. Lets call them Alice and Darryl.
They begin meeting daily, and eventually fall in love. Darryl asks Alice to marry him, and she says yes, but they have to find a way come together.
One day Alice is walking on the other side of her island and she sees a man with a boat (lets call him Cecil). She asks Cecil if he can take her over to the other island in his boat. He says yes, but only if she'll sleep with him before doing so.
Alice thinks about it for a day and decides to do as Cecil asks. She sleeps with him, and the next day he takes her over to her fiance.
Just before she and Darryl are to be married, she tells him what she did to get over to his island. He recoils in horror and says he won't marry her.
She runs away and comes across another man who asks her what was wrong(lets call him Elwyn). She tells him her story, and he says, "I'll tell you what you should do, you should stay with me and be my wife."
So she does.
Richard is Cecil in the story.
141. MsIvoryTower - 2/17/2001 12:55:25 AM
And Okay, Ace.
I'll let go of my Richard hate for the sake of this little SurvivorII community.
142. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:58:45 AM
Ms,
What the hell kind of story is that? Brief stories like that are usually suggestive of something "more"; your story seems to REALLY just be about Alice, Darryl, and Cecil.
That's the dumbest, most pointless story I ever heard.
Further, Richard would want to sleep with Darryl, not Alice. Further further, if Alice is dumb enough to sleep with Cecil, it's her own damn fault, not Cecil's. The man named his price for the ferry-ride. She agreed. Quantum meruit, baby.
143. MsIvoryTower - 2/17/2001 1:01:47 AM
Hahaha,
Not so pointless after all to bring out such rath.
Yes, it was a silly little vignette, but Richard reminds me of the Cecil character. One can say he was honest, one can say he didn't force Alice into anything, but he's still repulsive for his exploitation of the situation.
Point well taken that he'd rather sleep with Darryl than Alice, but then, it was my story, and I don't think like a homosexual.
144. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 1:13:12 AM
I must say I am impressed, as ever, by Jadetard's analysis.
Jadetard tells us that the interviewers just keep needling the contestants, prodding them with leading questions, until they say something juicy, bitchy, or otherwise interesting.
In other words-- get this --Jadetard speculates that the interviewers do not settle for "We're all in this together/I like everybody/Everybody is my favorite person and I love them all" type pap, but they actually probe to get less rehearsed, less artful, more honest and more interesting responses.
Fascinating theory, Jadetard.
I hope the rest of the media doesn't catch on to this unique, innovative interviewing technique.
145. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 1:21:33 AM
"Remember, you're only seeing what the producers want you to see."
Really? What is the term for this innovative technique? I heard a rumor this weird technique is called "editing," and it's some sort of newfangled process by which deathly dull, repetitive bullshit is culled and interesting, dramatic stuff is highlighted.
More gems:
"How do you think they get the contestants to say snide things about one another?"
How do you think cops get criminals to confess to crimes, Jadetard?
Do you think a cop takes a criminal's first answer as the true answer, and enters it into the record unchallenged?
"But clearly the producers can 'nudge' the contestants in certain directions."
Clearly Barbara Walters can "nudge" an interviewee in certain directions. Get this-- I once saw her get Michael Jackson to speak, if eliptically, about the child-molestation charges made against him, and it was clear that he didn't want to talk about these charges at all.
How did she accomplish this feat? Wait-- Jadetard might have the facts at her fingertips:
"It's easy. Just pick a contestant who's hot, tired, wet, bug-bitten, and hungry and ask their feelings about a certain contestant. Repeat as necessary.
A good illusion is never overt. It is misdirection."
Actually, good illusions can be plenty overt. But I digress.
I am really dumbfounded by your astute analysis. Really-- who would have thought? Interviewers badgering and needling interviewees until the interviewees stop with the dishonest pap and start saying interesting, provacative things.
Alert the media.
146. JudithAtHome - 2/17/2001 9:20:46 AM
How do you think they get the contestants to say snide things about one another?
Have you even watched this show? How do people HERE say snide things about each other? Jeez, the show is full of egotistical, money hungry, beautiful, catty people...hmmmmmmm, let me see....how can we get them to be snide?
Get real...people will go snide on the competetions ass in a New York minute with no prodding from anyone.
And I loved Richard Hatch and picked him to win from day one. He was ruthless...ruthless people win.
147. JadeGold1 - 2/17/2001 9:53:47 AM
"How do you think cops get criminals to confess to crimes,"
Spaz's medication must be kicking in. Don't you think cops try to achieve predetermined conclusions? Of course they do. That's the point. A cop wants a nice, neat confession sealed and delivered; no messy court case, no surprises.
Same as the producers on Survivor. They have to sustain viewer interest for ten weeks. They don't want to hit week six with a cast that appeals to nobody.
More on the pig. I see PETA is investigating. They suspect the pig was drugged and guided to the camp.
148. JudithAtHome - 2/17/2001 10:01:35 AM
They don't want to hit week six with a cast that appeals to nobody.
Yes, god forbid they end up with the final four being Richard, Rudy, Sue, and Kelly....three of whom were the most despised people on the show. That might lead to the biggest ratings coup in all of TV on the final night.
149. JadeGold1 - 2/17/2001 10:15:47 AM
There is nothing wrong with having despised characters, Judith. The show's producers don't want bland, "nice" contestants, either.
They want interesting characters that appeal to demographics. They realize people would tune in to see Richard get kicked off the island. They knew people would love to see crusty oldster Rudy use his wiles ala Barnaby Jones.
Survivor is rigged.
You do know this, right?
So is pro wrestling.
150. JudithAtHome - 2/17/2001 10:24:51 AM
You needn't be so patronizing, Jade...it's a GAME SHOW. I realize this.
You might say life is rigged, also. The strong survive. You get what you pay for. Nothing is certain but death and taxes.
151. JudithAtHome - 2/17/2001 10:25:51 AM
And I wouldn't know about pro-wrestling...I don't watch it. Rigged, huh? Who knew....
152. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:54:14 PM
The show is not "rigged." Jadetard is being an idiot, as usual.
The pig may or may not have been planted. I speculated about it being planted a while ago.
Jadetard says they're "investigating." Who is "They"? Who is this mysterious body who "investigates" how farm animals are slaughtered?
Idiotic.
153. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:55:53 PM
In nature documentaries, the film-makers plant mantises near tarantulas, so one will kill the other.
They plant deer near leopards. So that the leopard will kill the deer.
This is not new. And no one, as far as I know, is "investigating" the plight of the poor deer.
154. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:58:39 PM
My "sources" tell me that if you own a wild pig, you can set it loose on your own land and hunt it down-- legally. And there's no one to "investigate" it.
155. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 1:06:05 PM
Mark Burnett "rigged" the show so that a back-biting, scheming, fat, pasty faggot would win the show.
Because America loves that.
He "rigged" the show so that the delectably cute bit of crumpit Colleen would lose. No one wants to see a sweet and pretty girl win.
He also "rigged" the show so that a girl with a really impressive rack (Stacey) would lose fairly early. Because Americans don't want to see big tits jiggling around on the beach in a tight bikini top for too long; they get bored.
And then they "rigged" the show so that a crusty old coot would stay in the show... for purposes of appeasing the older demographic. The least valued demographic in Television. Yuhp. Unfortunately, for unknown reasons, he didn't also "rig" the show to keep BB & Sonja in the game. Nope. Just one old coot. Just the least sympathetic old coot.
Yeahp. They "rigged" the show all right.
156. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 1:12:42 PM
I used "Faggot" in that last post not with the intention of being derisive towards gays, but to emphasize the absurdity of a show's producers "rigging" a show so that a homosexual would win.
A fairly ANNOYING homosexual.
A devious, annoying homosexual.
A devious, annoying, pasty-fat homosexual.
A devious, annoying, pasty-fat homosexual who likes walking around bare-ass naked, his little pasty cock hanging out and scaring both the menfolk and womenfolk.
Jadetard's interpretation:
Mark Burnett saw this devious, annoying, pasty-fat homosexual and decided: "That's it! There's my STAR! I WILL RIG THE SHOW SO THIS FAT NAKED FAG (Rich's own description of himself) WILL WIN!! AMERICA *LOVES* FAT NAKED FAGS!"
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm... okay.
157. arkymalarky - 2/17/2001 1:14:47 PM
I watched about 30 minutes of the last episode of last year's Survivor on a very scratchy picture achieved with rabbit ears. But, though I hate to admit it, this thread is entertaining for Ace's posts alone, if I never see a minute of Survivor II.
158. JudithAtHome - 2/17/2001 1:30:26 PM
Ace:
It is just as easy to explain the presence of the pig(let) by the fact it was disoriented from the brush fires and wandered toward the camp in search of food, which, with its superior sense of smell, it could locate.
Over in TT, they are having the same "rigged" "not rigged" discussion. I doubt this show is "rigged" but it IS edited to be more entertaining. I still think the producer would be a fool to rig this show..it's good enough as it is edited.
Jade is being a bit "jaded" in ruining Professional Wrestling for me, though....I'm crushed.
159. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 1:32:34 PM
Jadetard also mistakes cause for effect.
Rich isn't compelling because he's a fat naked fag. He's compelling chiefly because:
1) He got the most screen-time; and he got the most screen-time because he was the ultimate winner.
and
2) Because he won.
BB and Sonja are not compelling, chiefly because they lost, and lost early.
But had either made it to the final round, they would have been just as interesting as Rich. More sympathetic, too, in all likelihood. Or perhaps just as villainous... no one wins without screwing a few people over along the way.
Jadetard is "suspicious" because the most compelling villain won the game. That must be scripted, Jadetard decides. Um, no Jadetard. Rich was the most compelling villain BECAUSE he won. You can't win without being something of a villain.
Perhaps the Superbowl was scripted, too.
At any rate, there is a 99% chance that a compelling villain will win this edition of Survivor, too. Scripted? Rigged?
Nope. People become compelling simply because they win, and therefore get lots of screentime. People become villains in order to win.
160. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 1:37:34 PM
"It is just as easy to explain the presence of the pig(let) by the fact it was disoriented from the brush fires and wandered toward the camp in search of food, which, with its superior sense of smell, it could locate."
JAH:
Certainly it is possible the pig simply ran through the camp to escape the fire.
I laughed at Jeff two weeks ago, who sagely pronounced Mike wouldn't catch a pig, because there were no pigs. Of course there are pigs, Jeff. It's the fucking wilderness. You think animals only exist in zoos?
So sure, it's possible the pig wasn't planted.
I sort of think it was probably planted. I'm not sure, but I lean towards the "plant" theory.
I just don't care too much. All the challenges are "planted" -- you think a big Rubik's cube puzzle exists naturally in the rocks of the Outback? No, that was "planted" by the producers.
The drama isn't that a pig wandered through the camp... the drama is whether or not Mike will catch it, and how the rest of the tribe will respond to the grisly butchering.
Even if it was "planted," it was nothing more, really, than an unofficial "challenge." The reward for the challenge is a supply of pork. The penalty for failing the challenge is NOT having pork.
So I don't really care either way.
161. JudithAtHome - 2/17/2001 1:39:40 PM
Since this thing was done in October and all the film was in the can, they knew who won before they started to edit the show we are seeing now. And they did the same thing last year with S1.
162. JudithAtHome - 2/17/2001 1:43:06 PM
Ace:
The filming is taking place in National Parks...these "wild" animals are probaly used to seeing some human activity.
I'm with you...even if the pig had been trained to sit up and beg, there's still no guarantee that Michael would've been able to plunge the knife in up to his elbow.
163. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 1:46:07 PM
"The filming is taking place in National Parks...these "wild" animals are probaly used to seeing some human activity."
I don't think so. Animals don't get "used" to humans unless they're domesticated, or in zoos.
A deer can see lots of humans, but it always responds the same way: It runs.
Like you say (and I say), though: It just doesn't really matter either way.
I'm surprised by one thing: The pig was very slow. I don't know how fast I imagined wild pigs were, but I figured they should be able to outpace a human, just like virtually every other animal.
But Mike caught that pig pretty quick.
164. JudithAtHome - 2/17/2001 1:48:12 PM
Well, we don't really know how quickly he caught it but maybe it had asthma, who knows?
Gotta run...guy is here to hook up my cable modem!
165. AytchMan - 2/17/2001 2:26:47 PM
Rigging or just manipulation? Let's put things in perspective here.
I think most of us agree that there's manipulation going on. Certainly of the audience -- we see only what the producers want us to see. And there has certainly been manipulation of the contestants. As I mentioned above, the host's injection of the idea of alliances into the tribal councils was blatant.
But rigging? I define rigging in terms of the quiz show scandals of the '60's. As in, deliberate cheating by aiding one contestant over another. Does anyone think that's what is going on? Jade?
166. CaroBeth - 2/17/2001 8:24:53 PM
I would agree. Manipulation, no question that is occurring. Rigging, on the other hand, I don't believe it. These people seem very capable of being devious without any help from the producers.
167. JadeGold1 - 2/17/2001 11:03:53 PM
Survivor is rigged. There's really no question except from the pro wrestling crowd.
Spaz wants to know if the Super Bowl was rigged. No, Spaz, the Giants lost because Jason Sehorn couldn't cover an XFL receiver and Kerry Collins couldn't hit the ground with a pass.
The pig is just an obvious example. They filmed the pig coming from a mile away. Heck, the camera crew alerted the camp that the pig was nearby.
168. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 8:53:59 AM
So fine...it's rigged in your opinion. You don't like it? Don't watch it.
Or watch it and feel superior to the pro wrestling crowd...they are used to it.
I'll lay odds on who enjoys the show more...
169. Francis Urquhart - 2/18/2001 10:38:42 AM
If Survivor is rigged, the shapely aspiring actress will be there until the end.
170. CalGal - 2/18/2001 10:41:18 AM
That's because all the viewers are straight men? I hadn't read that.
171. Francis Urquhart - 2/18/2001 10:41:57 AM
As for the pig, think bullfighting. Sure, the bull is bled and otherwise exhausted before the matador gets in the ring. But the drama exists, and the artistry remains. And sometimes, a matador makes a hash of the kill. The crowds boos. And every now and again, a matador loses his balls. The crowd ahs.
Jade has the broad sensibilities of a plate-spinner.
172. CalGal - 2/18/2001 10:43:25 AM
Besides, it occurs to me they did fine in the first show, and rigged or not, a bunch of folks stayed around to watch a naked gay man win.
Which means either that Cellar is right about all you guys in the closet, or that it's not quite as simple as letting the chick with the big boobs win.
173. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 10:44:25 AM
Not necessarily, Hoop Dreamer.
The aspiring actress will last only as long as the audience demands. When she only serves as eye-candy, she'll be out.
174. Francis Urquhart - 2/18/2001 10:45:29 AM
Jade
Then Tennessee Bob is a lock!
175. Francis Urquhart - 2/18/2001 10:48:24 AM
Jade
If it is "rigged", you should at least have the talent to predict the three finalists. Go for it.
176. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 10:56:22 AM
As I noted earlier, the producers don't begin with a script leading to an identified winner. That develops through the series as the public decides who the most watchable and/or interesting characters are.
It's a play where the actors are given their lines while on stage.
177. Francis Urquhart - 2/18/2001 10:58:31 AM
Jade
Well, at least we know that you watch pro wrestling. Enjoy the rigged Survivor II.
178. Indiana Jones - 2/18/2001 10:59:34 AM
So...what's your opinion of The Sopranos, JG?
Heh-heh-heh.
179. PsychProf - 2/18/2001 11:05:55 AM
My great-Uncle was Ed Don George, well known pro wrestler of another time...so what...I don't know...just so...and...the pig was rigged? Duh...but the "winner" is rigged? No...that would take the spontaneous interactions away from the contestants, substitute programmed manipulation...a state this group would fail at. Pig...yes....winner...no.
180. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 11:30:36 AM
The Sopranos is a silly show, IJ. They should drop all pretense and make it into a sit-com.
Do you think it's a documentary?
181. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 11:57:08 AM
Good lord, I hope you aren't serious? Teah, we all think James Gandolfini is a real mobster who hates his mother.
Jeez, Jade...I see now where you get your name.
Television is entertainment...we all recognize entertainment when we see it.
182. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 11:58:26 AM
Hit the wrong key again ....T is menat to be Y.
183. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 1:01:12 PM
Judith:
Thank you for explaining entertainment.
Some people consider entertainment to be dog-fighting or emailing naked pictures themselves to others. Whatever floats your
boat.
Survivor is just Gilligan's Island without professional actors.
184. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 1:06:53 PM
Okay...I get it now. You don't think it's worthy of our interest. I'll let you know if you were right after the last episode.
And I wasn't explaining entertainment...I just know it when I see it. The fact you don't doesn't bother me.
Which leads one to wonder: if this is so horrible to you, what are some the things you do like?
185. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 1:11:18 PM
Judith:
Whatever floats your boat. Heck, I watch a lot of Teletubbies and Clifford the Big Red Dog.
But I don't pretend it's real or the utmost in entertainment.
186. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 1:18:24 PM
Sorry your show got the ax...I couldn't believe they axed the Teletubbies!
Hey, I'm not saying this is award winning material here...it's mildly amusing and entertaining, that's all. And yes, I like it. You don't. I'll watch it and you won't...big deal. If we all liked the same things, it would get pretty dull.
I see nothing will change in this discussion even if we post all day on the subject. So I'm leaving the arena. Enjoy your Thursday evenings!
187. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 1:23:08 PM
Would you watch Survivor if you knew it was rigged?
188. AytchMan - 2/18/2001 2:02:10 PM
jade--
I doubt it. Which brings me back to:
As I noted earlier, the producers don't begin with a script leading to an identified winner. That develops through the series as the public decides who the most watchable and/or interesting characters are.
How does the public decide who are the most watchable characters?
189. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 2:05:56 PM
H Man:
By all the requests for the Richard Hatch Action Doll, of course!
190. AytchMan - 2/18/2001 2:15:31 PM
Ha.
It brings up the obvious question of how the audience can affect the direction of something that's already in the can.
191. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 2:20:06 PM
No kidding...unless it was "an audience of editors". Maybe Jade thinks they edit this as they go...not so.
192. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 2:27:10 PM
Aytch:
The public doesn't. As you know, the Survivor series is shot several months before the episodes are aired.
What the producers do is use focus groups and their own internal review to determine which contestants appeal to the audience.
193. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 2:28:13 PM
Aytch:
The public doesn't. As you know, the Survivor series is shot several months before the episodes are aired.
What the producers do is use focus groups and their own internal review to determine which contestants appeal to the audience. Then they ensure those contestants advance and the others do not.
194. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 2:30:48 PM
And you know this how?
195. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 2:42:30 PM
The producers have no choice, Judith.
They don't want to be in week 6 of a 10 week season with nobody watching. It's not like a TV sit-com or drama where the network can just pull the plug and air pilots or reruns of popular shows. They are stuck with airing the full season.
196. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 2:50:02 PM
Oh, so you are so sure that they rigged it not because you know someone working on the show but because of something you've surmised about the way things work, usually?
I think they have people in charge of choosing "interesting" people before the show ever starts...sure, they edit it for drama and cut out the boring and mundane and they may show the finished product to a test group or two and tweak it after; I doubt it though because that would just mean more people out there who might spoil the ending. But the show is in the can and it is run without overnight polls. This isn't politics...
197. labwabbit - 2/18/2001 2:52:57 PM
I think I'm going to shoot this Wilson-guy PP keeps threatening to do.
198. AytchMan - 2/18/2001 3:02:55 PM
jade--
The show's ratings have been through the roof since about the third episode of Survivor 1. Why risk it? Are the producers ignorant of the quiz show scandal of the '60's? That scandal destroyed that market niche for decades. Are they that foolish?
199. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 3:06:05 PM
No, they are not...this guy Burnett (or Barnett or whatever his name is) is making a fortune off this series and he's not going to jeopardize that at all.
200. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 3:10:05 PM
Aytch:
In a word: yes.
Money often makes people do foolish things. It will make people foolishly repeat the same mistakes over and over and over.
There is an element of plausible deniability for CBS. They can say that they don't know who will be the winner when they begin the series. They can say they don't vote anyone off the series.
201. AytchMan - 2/18/2001 3:21:47 PM
jade--
With all due respect, that's not very convincing. It's certainly true that money sometimes makes people do stupid things. But why pick this generality over any other?
Why not: concern for his fellow man? Therefore, Burnett is producing the best, most honorable show he can? What do you know about Burnett?
202. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 3:23:09 PM
Money often makes people do foolish things. It will make people foolishly repeat the same mistakes over and over and over.
Yes, it has made the producers make another show that is topping all the ratings for the nights it is shown...money and success do that to ya'!
203. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 3:28:30 PM
That's true, Judith. It goes back to my contention that the show's producers will manipulate the outcomes in order to keep this cash cow going.
Pro wrestling is also a huge success.
204. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 3:44:26 PM
But you fail to notice they don't have to manipulate it if they choose the participants wisely, which they do.
You keep mentioning pro wrestling as though I give a rats ass about it...I don't. But I'm getting the impression you do...
205. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 3:57:09 PM
It's a risk that CBS and the producers can't take, Judith. Your belief that CBS can audition and choose a diverse, interesting group and leave them to compete on a level playing field is very naive.
No matter how well you select, you can't predict how these contestants will perform under stress, boredom, in physical situations, or interacting with fellow contestants.
The stakes are too high for the network to leave this to chance.
206. AytchMan - 2/18/2001 4:01:05 PM
Okay, kids, I think we've beaten this one to death. One vote for outright rigging, several for manipulation. Moving along...
Professor Lowbrow's Question Of The Day:
What's the best strategy? If you won a spot as a contestant on Survivor 3, how would you proceed? Cutthroat? Mr./Ms. Congeniality? Low Profile?
207. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 4:06:13 PM
H Man:
Obviously it doesn't matter since I will be doing what the script tells me will bring in the best q rating...:-)
208. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 4:07:26 PM
Gamesmanship strategy doesn't matter, Aytch. The show is rigged.
The "strategy" is to be as interesting as possible; that may mean being controversial, taking off your clothes, etc.
209. AytchMan - 2/18/2001 4:10:24 PM
jade--
Noted. I'll address the question to those who don't think so.
210. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 4:12:29 PM
Tellme, Aytch. Why do you believe the show isn't rigged?
211. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 4:18:03 PM
I think being below the radar is a good way for the first half of the show...after the merge, being nice will likely get you booted because you want the worst ones up against you in the final four. But if you're too much of a cutthroat after the merge, the bootees who vote in the end will do you in, no matter.
I don't know what is best...but being like Richard, helpful and nice enough to the camp but showing his scheming and manipulative side to the camera, may not work this time or next either.
212. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 4:18:50 PM
A hypothetical: say, for example, "alliances" are forming among the contestants. A certain contestant who can tilt the competition in one diection or another refuses to join the "alliances."
If a show's producer approached this certain contestant and convinced him to join a certain alliance, is that manipulation?
Would that convince the true believers the show was rigged?
213. AytchMan - 2/18/2001 4:21:52 PM
jade--
That's sort of like asking for proof of a negative.
Nevertheless, I think the evidence you've cited suggests, at worst, manipulation but not rigging. By all accounts, Burnett is a very smart guy and I don't believe he would risk what is already a huge success.
214. AytchMan - 2/18/2001 4:23:52 PM
My 213 was addressed to 210.
215. PelleNilsson - 2/18/2001 4:24:14 PM
JadeGold doesn't think things through. OK, so assume the show is rigged. But it is not outright scripted but the way it goes will depend on focus groups and such. So what, then, is the strategy to get the focus groups on your side?
216. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 4:26:47 PM
What's the difference between rigging and manipulation in what is supposed to be a game?
217. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 4:32:05 PM
No, Jade, the question is:
What is the difference between the alleged rigging and the alleged manipulation in this game?
Because I've seen nothing but allegations that it is rigged...are you basing all this "rigging" BS on Stacey Stillmans lawsuit?
218. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 4:32:36 PM
Aytch's "evidence" that Survivor is a legitimate competition is that Burnett is a smart guy. Aytch also assumes that success is only achieved fairly without manipulation.
I'd submit the $64,000 Question and game shows of that era were produced by smart guys and were very popular with the audiences.
219. AytchMan - 2/18/2001 4:36:02 PM
jade--
I thought I defined it above. Rigging is outright fraud --delivering a winner based on what the producers want. Manipulation is stage-management, editing out of context for audience appeal, tossing in a pig for a team to kill to add a little drama.
220. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 4:39:49 PM
I'd submit the $64,000 Question and game shows of that era were produced by smart guys and were very popular with the audiences.
Yes, and when they broke the rules, they were busted and that resulted in the laws of today that you never hear of people blatantly breaking...or at least, most of us mortals don't hear of it. You may have a pipeline we aren't privy to...
221. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 4:45:23 PM
Distinctions without a difference, Aytch. Do you seriously believe giving one group more food than another isn't going to benefit that group over another?
222. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 4:50:03 PM
Aytch:
i don't pretend to have any "pipeline." I was acquainted with Richard Hatch, prior to his Survivor-fame.
The blatant rigging of the show is really quite blatant.
223. AytchMan - 2/18/2001 4:50:19 PM
jade--
Good point. My error. Scratch the pig example. The difference is determining the outcome versus packaging the show for audience appeal.
224. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 4:53:12 PM
Jade:
Are you saying Richard told you the show is rigged? Fascinating that you've known Hatch all this time.
225. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 5:05:20 PM
Aytch:
You have exotic locales, imaginative competitions, diverse personlities. Shouldn't that be enough to ensure audience appeal?
226. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 5:06:26 PM
Judith:
As I said, I knew Hatch prior to his Survivor-fame.
227. AytchMan - 2/18/2001 5:10:57 PM
jade--
And it does. Survivor is a big hit. Set in an IKEA warehouse, Big Brother went down the tubes.
228. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 5:35:50 PM
As I said, I knew Hatch prior to his Survivor-fame.
I knew Charlie Rose prior to his current fame, too....
So do you still know Hatch? Or did he drop all his old buds after he became famous?:-)
229. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 5:43:10 PM
Judith:
I wouldn't say that I was his "bud."
As you may or may not know, Hatch did corporate training in DC as well as other cities. He was put on a contractual vehicle under my purview for some services. As such, I've had some contact with him.
IMO, Hatch was selected by the show producers to win because they understood that he would draw viewers; people would tune in to see him get voted off or to hear what new catty remark he'd make.
Personally, I enjoyed his dancing.
230. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 5:46:42 PM
Well, the producers were right about that...I picked him to win from day one and actually won some money off sticking to my pick throughout the run of the show.
231. Uzmakk - 2/18/2001 9:41:37 PM
What day is this show on? Fox?
232. MsIvoryTower - 2/18/2001 10:25:49 PM
Richard was a scumbag.
The end.
Uzzmak, the show is on Thursdays, 7pm, on CBS (I think).
233. Uzmakk - 2/18/2001 10:32:39 PM
Thank you MsIT, and hello.
234. MsIvoryTower - 2/18/2001 10:39:58 PM
Hey Uzmakk,
You notice I always misspell your name. The correct spelling just won't stick with me. So sorry.
And how are things on the steppe?
235. Autodaffy - 2/19/2001 12:02:29 AM
The pig got really disoriented when that pike went up his ass and he found himself rotating at 400 degrees.
236. AytchMan - 2/19/2001 12:38:11 PM
Back to the strategy question from yesterday:
What's the best strategy? If you won a spot as a contestant on Survivor 3, how would you proceed? Mr./Ms. Congeniality? Try for leadership or keep a low profile? Actively build an alliance or let them come to you?
237. JudithAtHome - 2/19/2001 12:50:44 PM
My strategy hasn't changed since yesterday. Where's Ace? I think I might know what his is...ha!
238. CaroBeth - 2/19/2001 2:04:48 PM
I'd probably be Ms. Congeniality - that's my natural personality and I'm not good at changing it. I'd be friendly and help out and probably let the alliances come to me. I'd be watching everybody REALLY carefully, though. I can be a bit bossy, so I'd probably be a junior leader, rather than keeping too low a profile.
239. AytchMan - 2/19/2001 2:10:40 PM
hi carobeth--
Would you play it like poker (bluff and lie) or be honorable right down the line?
240. CalGal - 2/19/2001 2:25:41 PM
I'd be rebel leader and reject all alliances, telling people that alliances are for weenies. People would in equal parts love me or loathe me, and I would either be booted out early or surprise everyone with my strong finish. I would never win, because the machinations required for such an outcome would run contrary to all my strengths. But if I had a strong finish, fully half the people would be convinced that I could only have done so by convincing my followers to conspire on my behalf.
241. AytchMan - 2/19/2001 2:38:23 PM
cal--
I'm confident there's a name for that in some psychiatric text somewhere.
Would you keep your word or play poker?
242. PelleNilsson - 2/19/2001 2:40:08 PM
I have never seen the show, but I would probably pull out my awesome conpiratorial skills, honed by years of office politics in the Arab world. The kind that makes people fail to realise, until they try to walk, that their legs have been cut at the knee
243. AytchMan - 2/19/2001 2:48:15 PM
pelle--
I think the original show actually came from Dutch TV (those renowned conspirators).
An Arab politician would do very well on the show. In Survivor 1, a solid alliance of four people won through but I wonder if a policy of shifting alliances would serve better now.
244. CalGal - 2/19/2001 2:50:01 PM
Aytch,
I'd always tell the truth. However, I have on more than one occasion been known to tell exactly the truth in such a way that people who aren't paying attention will come to the wrong conclusion. But if they are paying attention, they can always ask the extra questions that I would also answer accurately.
Most people don't pay attention. But it is an awesome power, and one that invariably invokes rage once it has been discovered, so it must be used sparingly.
Generally, I tell exactly and all the truth without relying on the only out I have.
245. CalGal - 2/19/2001 2:51:36 PM
Aytch,
Ack. I thought you were asking a different question.
I would reject all alliances, and yes, I would do that all the way down the line.
However, if someone were to ask me if I'd formed an alliance and I could answer "no" truthfully in a way to make them think I was lying, and this was to my advantage, I would.
246. AytchMan - 2/19/2001 2:59:26 PM
cal--
I don't see how you could survive without any alliances. Would you reject them as a game strategy or on some personal principle?
247. KuligintheHooligan - 2/19/2001 3:02:16 PM
Never actually seen an episode of this program, being where I am and all. Can't say that I mind, but I am curious what all the fuss is about this show. I have tried to find some site that tells me what the general rules of the "game" are: what they can bring and not bring, how the voting proceeds, etc., with no luck.
For example, I see that one person brought a shaving kit as a "luxury item," while some moron brought a Texas State flag. What good is a flag going to do him? Anyway, if anybody knows where I can find the general rules and regulations that the contestants must follow, I'd be most happy.
248. JudithAtHome - 2/19/2001 3:05:24 PM
The Texas flag actually came in handy as a tarp...
249. JudithAtHome - 2/19/2001 3:06:28 PM
...and at the top of this page is a list of places for you to acquaint yourself with the show...it's called Related Links.
250. KuligintheHooligan - 2/19/2001 3:07:21 PM
Duh! Thanks Judith!
A tarp, eh?
251. JudithAtHome - 2/19/2001 3:11:10 PM
Yes, and his teammates were pretty happy with the shade it provided. So you just never know what will come in handy!
252. AytchMan - 2/19/2001 3:14:54 PM
kth--
I can summarize it for you.
16 people are dumped in a wilderness and organized into two teams. They are provided with some food and gear but not much. They very definitely must organize and provide their own food and shelter. The contestants on the first show last summer all lost a lot of weight.
Every three days, there is a reward competition to gain some survival gear (matches, blankets, whatever). More importantly, there is an Immunity challenge, some test of athletic skill. The losing team must vote out one of their members that night in the hokey but entertaining Tribal Council.
The final survivor receives a cool million dollars. The others get less based on how long they managed to hang on.
Much of the interest revolves around the interpersonal dynamics as alliances are formed and backs are stabbed.
253. CaroBeth - 2/19/2001 3:21:01 PM
Good question regarding the bluffing. I don't know that I'm much good at that, so I'd probably try to answer truthfully. I'd probably try to do as CalGal suggested - tell the truth, but being careful as to how the answer is presented.
I think, if I were in the right frame of mind, that I could kick some butt on this program.
254. KuligintheHooligan - 2/19/2001 3:33:41 PM
Aytch,
Thanks for the help. Tell me, can one tribe go "hunt down" another tribe's site and do some sabatoge, or steal things, etc.?
Also, once you get to 3 or 2 contestants, how does the voting take place?
255. KuligintheHooligan - 2/19/2001 3:40:21 PM
Reading through the CBS site (I'm through episode 2) back stabbing is a major part of the game it seems. If you are a really ugly person and can sway others against someone, that seems to work early on. But I can't imagine such a person would ultimately be trusted by anybody as the game progressed.
256. AytchMan - 2/19/2001 3:40:51 PM
kth--
No, the tribes operate independently. I forgot to mention that, when there are eight people left, the two tribes merge into one.
The last two contestants are voted on by the Jury Of Embittered Rejects (the most recent 7 people to get voted off). And, judging from Survivor 1, there is not a more bellicose and resentful bunch in the known Cosmos.
257. AytchMan - 2/19/2001 3:45:43 PM
kth 255--
There's really a lot of subtlety to it. Richard, the winner from Survivor 1, was quite a conniver. But he wielded his knife brilliantly. None of his opponents suspected until the blade was already in. In fact, the host resorted to asking pointed questions in order to clue in some of the lambs. Even this didn't help some of them, like Sean (the Moron).
258. JudithAtHome - 2/19/2001 3:47:41 PM
Oh man...I loooove this:
Jury Of Embittered Rejects
You really ought to trademark that one, H!
259. JudithAtHome - 2/19/2001 3:51:39 PM
I think being nice and being helpful is good but you also have to keep an eye toward the final 4...you want to be nice enough to stay in but not so nice as to pose a threat to the Vipers. I don't think I could bluff well...I'm lousy at poker. And according to some who know me, I can be sneaky...of course, I don't see that in myself.(s™)
260. AytchMan - 2/19/2001 3:54:36 PM
judith--
You saw the finale last year, didn't you? Am I not speaking the truth? What a carnival.
261. JudithAtHome - 2/19/2001 3:56:29 PM
H Man:
Yeah, I loved it, too...."If you were laying in the desert and dogs were picking your bones...." Lord, that was classic entertainment!
262. AytchMan - 2/19/2001 4:01:47 PM
carobeth--
I think, if I were in the right frame of mind, that I could kick some butt on this program.
Judging by the zucchini-like trance several of the contestants are in, I don't doubt it.
But I'm not so sure that a program of straight honesty would win. Don't the sociologists tell us that a mix of honesty and deceit is generally more successful?
263. KuligintheHooligan - 2/19/2001 4:08:14 PM
Vote off the vegetarian. I'm already sick of her just from what I have read!
264. AytchMan - 2/19/2001 4:13:54 PM
kth--
I don't think she's long for the show. She almost cost her team one of the competitions by balking at eating a worm or something. Then she practically had a nervous breakdown when her team caught and killed a pig. I guess she expects to survive on tree bark for six weeks.
265. arkymalarky - 2/19/2001 4:35:30 PM
If I were a producer, I'd want to keep her around for awhile just knowing the fun people would get from watching her gross out every episode--not implying that I agree with Jade that the show was rigged, or anything.
As far as strategy is concerned, it seems that if you weren't in it for a complete win you'd be crazy or a glutton for punishment--so once in, whatever it takes--lying, alliances, backstabbing, niceness, eating worms, etc, and you'd have to be able to shift with the circumstances, which means you'd have to be constantly aware of what they are. It seems that you'd have to ignore whatever your normal persona is and take one on strictly for the competition. I don't think a set strategy could win it.
266. JudithAtHome - 2/19/2001 4:38:43 PM
I'm not competetive...don't like sports, etc. so I probably wouldn't do well on this show but at least I'd know how to cook rice properly.
Everyone crabs about the rice and how mushy it is...I'll bet money they don't wash the rice and are used to Uncle Bens anyhow.
267. arkymalarky - 2/19/2001 4:56:08 PM
I'm very competitive, but laziness trumps it every time. I'd get put on the first boat out, truth be known. Feed me a worm, but don't make me pitch a tent, wash my clothes by hand, etc.
268. CaroBeth - 2/19/2001 7:10:53 PM
Arky, I agree. I don't think that you could stick with a set strategy. Too many variables.
Now, see, I could handle the tent and washing clothes by hand, fishing, even gutting the pig. Eating a worm I could not do. I can't even watch it on TV.
269. rubberducky - 2/20/2001 10:36:15 AM
"It's amazing how poorly they're playing the game, given the leads we gave them."
-- Richard Hatch on his successors in "Survivor 2."
is he right? what would Hatch do differently?
270. MsIvoryTower - 2/20/2001 10:45:32 AM
Hatch is puffing up.
He was damn lucky in SurvivorI, had he the slightest competition for strategy, he'd have been kicked off by the tribal merge.
But I think it's an excellent question. What would the bullshit man of the hour do differently?
271. JudithAtHome - 2/20/2001 10:48:18 AM
I think Richard played the game brilliantly...and one thing he would probably do if he were on the Ogre team would be to get rid of Jerri.
272. RosettaStone - 2/20/2001 10:53:07 AM
You almost make the program sound interesting.
I'll have to watch the show this Thursday night. Snuggle up with my beautiful, award-winning wife on the sofa...the usual.
273. JadeGold1 - 2/20/2001 10:54:18 AM
It's rigged.
Hatch is just engaging in what he does best: self-promotion.
274. Francis Urquhart - 2/20/2001 10:57:51 AM
Jade
Wow. Do you really think Survivor is rigged?
275. JadeGold1 - 2/20/2001 10:59:09 AM
Just like a bullfight, Niner.
276. Francis Urquhart - 2/20/2001 11:01:20 AM
Wow. So, when a bullfighter gets gored, that's rigged too?
What a scam.
277. JadeGold1 - 2/20/2001 11:13:20 AM
Doesn't matter, Niner. Even if a bull gores nine matadors, he's hanger steak at the end of the day. Some ignoramus will be dangling his ears as a trophy.
One would have thought Gonzaga taught you better.
278. JudithAtHome - 2/20/2001 12:10:48 PM
Rosetta...your plagerism is not amusing. But of course, it IS...the usual.
279. JadeGold1 - 2/20/2001 12:16:41 PM
BTW, Les Halles has the best hanger steak (Onglet à l'Échalote) in DC. The pommes frites are to die for.
280. AceofSpades - 2/20/2001 1:18:55 PM
Richard Hatch got very lucky. He won an immunity challenge just when Sue Hatch & Kelly were about to vote him off the island. They never got a second chance.
But then, anyone who wins a competition is the beneficiary of luck somewhere along the way.
281. AceofSpades - 2/20/2001 1:19:33 PM
Errrr... well, I suppose he got lucky in the sense that the producers "rigged" the show for the annoying, pasty-fat homosexual to win, too.
282. JadeGold1 - 2/20/2001 1:55:04 PM
Spaz continues his ignorance. Hatch won because the producers surmised that he engendered the most interest from the audience.
My guess is the producers, in Survivor I, wanted Sean to win. He was photogenic and a neurosurgeon. Unfortunately, he also came across as vacuous and not at all interesting. Sean seemed to be more interested in a post-Survivor career than in winning.
The producers selected Hatch because he dished on everyone and had an arrogance which would make the audience tune in to see him get voted off. He did and said outrageous things.
283. RosettaStone - 2/20/2001 3:49:22 PM
Hatch won because he was a homosexual.
Everyone knows that...
284. joezan - 2/20/2001 10:01:27 PM
COMING UP ON EPISODE FIVE
The next episode of "Survivor" begins with a warning: "The following show contains scenes of slaughter and bloodlust that may be disturbing, particularly for the creatures being slaughtered. Viewer discretion is advised, as is videotaping." Michael, having whet his appetite for death last week, is delighted to catch and hack up another wild pig, this one even smaller and cuter. "This is some pig!" he tells the tribe, smearing its innards on his face. "I know because it said so on the spider web above his head. Also, I killed the spider." As the nearby wildfire continues to rage, other creatures are flushed into Mike’s killing grounds include Babe, Thumper and two Ewoks.
Although Kucha is eating well now, Kimmi won’t stop whining about the cuisine. "I don’t eat mammals!" she shrieks, in case no one heard her the first fifty times. "Why doesn’t somebody kill a worm? I can eat a worm!" Attempts to explain to Kimmi that chickens are not mammals go nowhere. Nick tries to entice her by again quipping,"Once you go dark meat, you never go back." Then Jeff argues in favor of cooking the male bird by declaring, "I love to eat cock." Finally, Mike goes off to slay more animals for his unholy sacrifice, but the tables are turned when he is set upon by a pack of specially-trained wild boars that eat his face.
285. joezan - 2/20/2001 10:02:12 PM
Scenes of Ogakor are preceded by another warning: "The following tribe contains some of the dumbest people ever, even without Mitchell." While the tribe attempts to extinguish the wildfire using rockslides, dead wood and car batteries, Jerri tries to woo Colby back into the Union by explaining the importance of benefits and overtime pay and by singing Woody Guthrie ballads. Jerri explains that the Union is only the vanguard of broader social change and that a revolution is coming, to be followed by a dictatorship of the proletariat. Colby replies that his brain hurts and they go off hunting. "Oh cowboy, you are all muscle," Jerri coos at him. "Especially your big long spear." Watching them, Keith declares himself "miffeded and disgustified." When they return, Jerri makes Colby give her a piggyback ride across the river so she won’t melt.
The immunity challenge continues where last week’s reward challenge puzzle left off. This time, the survivors compete to get a giant ball on a string into a giant plastic cup, move a giant chain into the shape of a giant guy’s nose, and use a giant magnet to give a guy a beard made of giant iron filings. Kucha wins easily as Ogakor struggles to remember which part of the face is the nose.
At Tribal Council Jeff Probst begins by saying, "I just want to observe that Kucha is making you its bitch. Can’t you losers do anything right?"
286. joezan - 2/20/2001 10:02:40 PM
When the votes are counted, there is a tie: three votes each for Amber and Eduardo. Told to make their cases before the revote, Amber stuns her teammates by telling them she’s weak and tired and never gets any airtime anyway, so they might as well vote her off. Eduardo says, "I agree. Vote Amber off." When the votes are counted again, the result is another tie. Although the rules say that any previous Tribal Council votes are now added, neither Amber nor Eduardo has any prior votes against them. ("Frankly, I never even noticed them before," Tina confesses.) Jeff Probst announces that the next stage is to turn over the vote to the Supreme Court, which rules 5-4 that the winner of the million dollars is George W. Bush.
287. AytchMan - 2/21/2001 12:14:18 AM
Since the Bragging Rights Pool approacheth, here's a brief bio on the remaining contestants [edited from official CBS website]:
Alicia --Personal trainer in Manhattan. Past professions include computer graphic artist and aerobics instructor. Self-described as charismatic, competent and passionate. Won the Ms. Connecticut Amateur Natural Bodybuilding Competition in 1994. CPR-certified with the American Red Cross. Age 32. Luxury item: brush.
Amber -- a recent college graduate from Beaver, Pennsylvania, B.A. in Public Relations. Prior to departing for Australia, she was an administrative assistant and lived with her parents. While attending school, worked as waitress, librarian assistant, swimming instructor, lifeguard and babysitter. Hobbies are going out with her friends, dancing and just generally having fun. Belongs to the Catholic Church. Age 22. Luxury item: journal and pen.
Colby -- Originally from Christoval, Texas. Self-employed custom auto designer and builder living in Dallas. Graduate of Texas Tech with a degree in business marketing. Left corporate job to start his own company. Self-described as imaginative, dedicated and flexible. Enjoys designing and building furniture. Favorite sport to watch is football, but he prefers to play sand volleyball. Age 26. Luxury item: Texas flag.
Elisabeth -- Recent graduate of Boston College. Lives in Massachusetts. Footwear designer. Spends her free time creating greeting cards and personalized planners. Spent time in Belize teaching in the rainforest. Self-described as impulsive, intuitive, and devoted. Enjoys watching football, playing outdoor sports, and listening to her brother on the guitar. Age 23. Luxury item: immunity head dress (?!?).
288. AytchMan - 2/21/2001 12:15:34 AM
Jerri -- Lives in Los Angeles. Bartends while pursuing an acting career. Biggest accomplishment was a play that she and best friend wrote, directed and produced. Has had roles in several films and commercials. Grew up as "army brat", moving every three to four years. Self-described as adventurous, fun-loving, spontaneous, honest, and kind. Hobbies include photography, cooking, painting, writing, reading, and her all-time favorite, camping. Favorite event is Burning Man, the annual festival in the Nevada desert. Favorite TV shows are The Sopranos and Sex and the City. Age 30. Luxury item: bongos.
Jeff --Internet project manager, recently worked as Director of People and Process [now there's a definitive job title] for a Manhattan start-up. B. A. in journalism. Aggressive athlete, plays competitive hockey. Studied martial arts, received a black belt in Tae Kwon Do at age 15. Captain of the 1989 National Champion UNC Tar Heel Cheer Team. Avid rollerblader. Self-described as provocative, energetic, competitive, adventurous, and a free spirit. Likes all kinds of music, especially that which motivates. Lives in Manhattan. Member of Society of Human Resources. Volunteer for organizations and charities that support kids in need. Luxury item: coloring book and crayons.
Keith The Chef -- Lives in Michigan. Opened two restaurants, 1988 and 1996, both featured in Esquire Magazine. Appeared in cooking shows on local Detroit television stations. Produced and hosted one-hour prime time Emmy-nominated special, a documentary based on a journey through Vietnam. New cookbook about to be published. Self-described as creative, adventurous, and just happy to be alive each day. Divorced father of two kids. President of the Rainbow Connection, a non-profit organization that grants wishes for children with life-threatening illnesses Age: 41. Luxury item: paiella pan.
289. AytchMan - 2/21/2001 12:16:21 AM
Kimmi The Vegetarian -- Bartender on Long Island, freelances as production assistant for television commercials. B.A. fom NYIT. Self-described as spontaneous, outgoing and creative. Hobbies are photography, gardening, and reading. Favorite TV shows are Win Ben Stein's Money and The Simpsons. Favorite movies are Cruel Intentions and Beauty and the Beast. Prefers a good game of Trivial Pursuit or Scrabble when she has time. Single. Luxury item: Scrabble set.
Michael The Pig-Slayer -- Founder and President of software publishing and distribution company. Also founded a motivational speaking company. Bachelor of Business Management from Western Michigan University. Married with three kids and lots of pets. Self-described as adventurous, a thrill-seeker, and a risk taker. Favorite TV shows are ESPN SportsCenter and Seinfeld. Favorite movie is Meet Joe Black. Likes to hunt [no kidding], barefoot water-ski and play ice hockey. Age 39. Luxury item: war paint.
Nick --Entering second year at Harvard Law School. Plans to join the Army's Judge Advocate General's office. Attended Morehouse College. Currently an officer in the United States Army. Previously a research assistant for the Human Rights Commission and has done some modelling. Lives in Washington State. Self-described as compassionate, incisive, and ambitious. Member of the Black Law Students Association. Age 23. Luxury item: frisbee.
290. AytchMan - 2/21/2001 12:16:50 AM
Kentucky Joe -- Born, raised and still lives in Crittenden, Kentucky. Married for 33 years. B.S. and M.S. in Education from Eastern Kentucky University. Teacher, part-time farmer and real estate investor. Previously, CEO of a bank, owned lumber company and hardware store. Self-described as a workaholic, inventive, diligent and adaptable. Elder at the Crittenden Christian Church, member of the local Sportsmen Club. Age 54. Luxury item: bible.
Tina --Private duty nurse, full-time mom. Has worked as community education director, flight attendant, substitute teacher and a swimming instructor. B. S. in therapeutic recreation [what the hell is that?] from University of Tennessee. Completed the Dublin Marathon, won State Racquetball Tournament, won her age bracket in hometown mini-triathlon. Wants to "live the life less ordinary". Self-described as happy, content, adventurous, outgoing, an early riser and very much in love. Hobbies are racquetball, running, swimming, and motorcycling. Favorite TV show is Rosie. Married with two kids. Lives in Tennessee. Luxury item: backgammon set.
291. joezan - 2/21/2001 7:01:41 AM
B. S. in therapeutic recreation [what the hell is that?]
Recreation as therapy, natch. Developing pro-social skills, etc.
Also as diagnostic tool - play patterns, frustration points, etc.
Nowadays, many rec therapists become elementary gym teachers or (with advanced degrees), facilitators for "wilderness experience" team-building outfits.
292. Jenerator - 2/21/2001 9:12:25 AM
I lost interest in the first Survivor and have only seen one episode of the second series. Hatch always came across as a narcssistic whiner and was completely uninteresting.
An attorney who works in the building tried out for it (Surv.II). We were disappointed he didn't get chosen.
293. rubberducky - 2/21/2001 9:43:29 AM
back to the 1st one for a tic
CBS on Tuesday filed a $5 million countersuit against former Survivor castaway Stacey Stillman, claiming the San Francisco lawyer is guilty of breach of contract, extortion and defamation.
Stillman, the third contestant booted from last year's Survivor, sued CBS and executive producer Mark Burnett two weeks ago, essentially claiming the show was rigged. But by doing so, CBS now claims Stillman broke her confidentiality agreement with the network, which states that contestants can be held liable for $5 million in damages if they reveal inside information about the show.
...
Stillman filed her complaint against CBS and Burnett February 5 in San Francisco County Superior Court, claiming the executive producer helped arrange her exit and "orchestrated" the show's outcome. Stillman, 28, claims Burnett convinced contestants Sean Kenniff and Dirk Been to vote her off instead of irascible 72-year-old retired Navy SEAL Rudy Boesch--presumably out of fear that the show would kick off all of its older contestants too early.
if there's one thing worse than a whiney loser - it's a whiney loser willing to file a lawsuit.
294. JadeGold1 - 2/21/2001 9:51:54 AM
Though Survivor is rigged, Stillman's suit is pretty weak.
Unless she can get those two contestants to admit they were influenced by the show's producers, her suit is going nowhere.
295. rubberducky - 2/21/2001 9:59:11 AM
i agree she has little chance, JG
you think CBS will slam her with the full $5 mil?
296. JadeGold1 - 2/21/2001 10:08:43 AM
I doubt it, RD. Unless she gets really ugly and starts talking about Survivor behind the scenes.
It's in CBS' best interest to see that this suit gets as little attention as possible. CBS doesn't want the public to see the show is rigged.
297. JudithAtHome - 2/21/2001 10:18:35 AM
and a neurosurgeon
Just for the record, Sean wasn't a neurosurgeon...he was a neurologist.
298. JadeGold1 - 2/21/2001 10:24:32 AM
I stand corrected, Judith.
If you saw Survivor I, Sean was clearly a favorite of the producers until he began to display a very real passive attitude toward winning.
299. JudithAtHome - 2/21/2001 10:27:12 AM
Actually, I never saw that the producers preferred Sean, unless you call highlighting the fact he was such a profound doofus as a sign they preferred him.
300. JadeGold1 - 2/21/2001 10:34:01 AM
I agree that he was a doofus, Judith. That's why the producers got rid of him.
They gave him him every opportunity but he was apparently more interested in a post-Survivor TV career.
301. AceofSpades - 2/21/2001 12:12:25 PM
Think Spiro Agnew, Judith.
302. AytchMan - 2/21/2001 1:17:44 PM
Professor Lowbrow's Question Of The Day.
Where will the reality shows be in five to ten years? A staple of primetime TV? A distant memory? Fondly remembered as the second major TV scandal (for fraud)?
303. JadeGold1 - 2/21/2001 1:21:36 PM
I think they'll be going strong.
They're cheap to produce and the viewing audience has no limit when it comes to watching people degrade or humiliate themselves.
Conflict sells.
I think the premise will change to using random selection of contestants, fewer contestants, and shorter competition cycles.
304. Wombat - 2/21/2001 1:25:22 PM
They ought to have "real" survivor shows. Parachute a bunch of idiots out of a plane somewhere desolate and give them two weeks to find their way back to civilzation. Winner gets $1 million. Losers die. Film the whole damn thing.
305. Wombat - 2/21/2001 1:34:27 PM
1st week: Jennie gets dismembered by a Leopard.
2nd week: Biff gets killed by headhunters and his head is shrunk.
3rd week: Jolene dies of gangrene from the compound fractures she got when she messed up her parachute landing.
4th week: Justin goes insane after drinking from an alkali pool.
etc., etc.
306. AytchMan - 2/21/2001 1:40:30 PM
wombat--
4ha. I'm confident you can get thirteen weeks on the WB. It'll be their breakout show.
307. arkymalarky - 2/22/2001 8:38:34 PM
Hey, I'd watch a show like that.
308. Uzmakk - 2/22/2001 8:40:01 PM
Tried to watch Survivor tonight. 10 minutes was as much as I could bare.
309. Uzmakk - 2/22/2001 8:41:24 PM
i.e., bear
310. AceofSpades - 2/22/2001 9:35:49 PM
Heh, heh, heh...
Next week on Survivor: Someone gets attacked by a crocodile. For real.
"Rigged," Jadetard?
311. JadeGold1 - 2/22/2001 9:39:00 PM
Rigged, Spaz.
The fact that some contestant gets too close to the wildlife or sprains an ankle or picks at her bugbites is immaterial.
The producers will give the most interesting contestant preference.
312. AceofSpades - 2/22/2001 9:56:51 PM
Jadetard,
Okay. Then tell us-- who wins?
You claim they will pick the winner based on who is most "interesting" or "preferred." And that's something you can judge for yourself, since you claim the producers are only giving you what YOU want.
So tell us who wins, Genius. Tell us the final four, dipshit.
313. JadeGold1 - 2/22/2001 10:01:48 PM
Spaz:
As you know the shows are edited; it is too early to tell. Right now, all we're seeing is the introductions of the unwitting actors.
The final three are fairly obvious.
314. JadeGold1 - 2/22/2001 10:11:32 PM
I would add, Spaz, that I am somewhat surprised you haven't figured this show out.
Perhaps I gave you too much credit.
Quite simply, each Survivor "competition" must outdo the previous. After all, viewers are being asked to make an "investment" of watching the bulk of 10 shows. Reality-based shows are based on viewers getting to know, like, or dislike certain contestants.
Now, put yourself in the position of a producer. You know you must outdo your previous effort. You understand that viewership depends upon audience interest in the contestants. Do you roll the dice and hope everything works out? Or do you load the dice?
315. JudithAtHome - 2/22/2001 10:18:20 PM
The final three are fairly obvious.
Then, pray tell, who are these obvious final three?
Of course, you won't tell us...might spoil our fun.
316. JadeGold1 - 2/22/2001 10:21:58 PM
Quite right, Judith.
You may even suspect who they are.
317. AceofSpades - 2/22/2001 10:22:01 PM
Jadetard,
Suuuuuuuuuuuure.
I seem to remember laws being passed against this after the 1950's quiz show scandals.
But I'm sure they're breaking the laws, anyway. That's why they film outside the country-- to avoid jurisdiction. And Mark Burnett is a Brit, right?
It all adds up.
Think Spiro Agnew.
318. JudithAtHome - 2/22/2001 10:25:05 PM
Why am I not surprised you want to sustain the suspense?
As a matter of fact, I do suspect who they are and I plan on telling at the end of the next to last show, just like you.
319. JadeGold1 - 2/22/2001 10:31:58 PM
Spaz:
I told you earlier that the producers have plausible denial; it's not as if they are giving contestants answers to quiz questions. Some of the contestants may not even understand the level of manipulation.
There are pretty comprehensive non-disclosure contracts in place, as well.
320. JadeGold1 - 2/22/2001 10:33:31 PM
BTW, did anyone catch how the maze was rigged tonight to favor one tribe?
321. AceofSpades - 2/22/2001 10:35:18 PM
JAH:
Me too. I know the winner, I know the runner up, I know third place and fourth place.
I know who got attacked by the crocodile; I know if Colby bangs Jerri, and if so, for how long.
I know all of this.
But I, too, choose to keep my secrets.
Jadetard's "theory," such as it is, is conveniently incapable of disproving.
If the most likeable contestant wins, Jadetard says, "See? The person the audience most liked won. That proves it's rigged."
If the LEAST likeable contestant wins, Jadetard says, "See? The villain is of course the most interesting character; that proves the show is rigged."
Her theory implies, of course, that Jadetard should be able to predict the winner (obviously, the "most interesting participant"), but she claims that she is incapable of providing that information at the moment. Or unwilling to do so.
In short, she's a crazy shut-in raving bitch. She's also hiddeously stupid, which is what you'd expect from a career low-level civil servant.
322. JadeGold1 - 2/22/2001 10:36:06 PM
Why so rude, Judith?
323. AceofSpades - 2/22/2001 10:36:27 PM
"BTW, did anyone catch how the maze was rigged tonight to favor one tribe?"
Yes, the flashing neon arrows stating "This way to the next waypoint" sort of gave the game away.
324. JudithAtHome - 2/22/2001 10:36:41 PM
Oh, you mean the fact there were no sides in the one maze? That it was just a box with the trails laid out on the ground with arrows?
I'm sorry to be so snide but of course, I didn't see any such rigging...I'm waiting for you to enlighten me.
325. JudithAtHome - 2/22/2001 10:41:18 PM
Why so rude, Judith?
Because I feel you only come into this thread to act superior and be condescending. If I'm wrong, I apologize. Actually, I apologize even if I'm right because I have no reason to be rude since I enjoy reading what you have to say even if I don't buy into it.
326. AceofSpades - 2/22/2001 10:41:24 PM
I imagine Jadetard will claim that the greater number of persons in Kucha tribe slowed them down, so that made the game "rigged" against them.
But that's just typical Jadetard stupidity. Kucha didn't take advantage of its greater numbers, which it should have. They could have left a single person at each waypoint to help guide the group there when necessary.
327. JadeGold1 - 2/22/2001 10:43:15 PM
I must have touched a nerve with Spaz.
Oh well.
Some people are bitter they couldn't get into a second- or first-tier school. Some people are bitter they're handicapped.
Some people overcome obstacles; others believe in rigged TV shows.
328. JudithAtHome - 2/22/2001 10:43:38 PM
Ace:
I thought so, too...they didn't play it very smartly.
329. JadeGold1 - 2/22/2001 10:46:00 PM
Judith:
I am neither rude nor condescending.
I am, however, always correct. It's a gift.
330. AceofSpades - 2/22/2001 10:48:07 PM
JAH:
They shouldn't have bunched up, either. Keep the "worm" long, with two meters between everybody, each person keeping the next person in line of sight. That allows you to cover up a lot more yardage, more quickly.
Jadetard's just pissed that I picked up on her brilliant theory re: how the maze-game was "rigged."
Such a small, small mind. Always thinking. Always thinking "brilliant insights," always disappointed to find out that everyone else has considered them as well, then dismissed them as not-so-brilliant.
331. JudithAtHome - 2/22/2001 10:49:00 PM
Jade:
I didn't call you rude...I said consescending and superior.
And I apologized, if you'll notice.
But I reserve the right to be skeptical of that "always correct" part....if you don't mind.
332. JudithAtHome - 2/22/2001 10:50:38 PM
And of course, I spelled condescending incorrectly...my usual luck.
333. JadeGold1 - 2/22/2001 10:50:47 PM
There are several strategies the tribes could have employed to "attack" the maze. It didn't matter.
The mazes were not identical.
334. AceofSpades - 2/22/2001 10:50:52 PM
Jadetard,
So, how was the maze-game "rigged"? Because Kucha had "too many people," right?
Did I ruin your brilliant insight for you, dipshit?
What a moron.
335. AceofSpades - 2/22/2001 10:52:28 PM
"The mazes were not identical."
Yes, one was filled with quicksand and vampire bats.
Oh wait, no -- one maze's walls were only two feet high, allowing Okaguru to see the entire maze-scape.
336. JudithAtHome - 2/22/2001 10:53:12 PM
I guess the guy said they were identical, knowing people could stop their tapes and prove it easily enough that they were not. Then, someone else could sue Burnett because he has all that extra money laying around.
337. JudithAtHome - 2/22/2001 10:55:35 PM
I'm going to worry about this all night now...have to leave you good people and go to bed. Later....
338. AytchMan - 2/23/2001 10:13:10 PM
To All Posters:
I said no flaming and I meant it.
Trash each other's arguments to your heart's content but refer to each other by official handle (or polite nickname) and without personal attack.
From this point on, all offending posts will be moved to Inferno without notice and without exception.
Final Warning.
339. Fielding - 2/23/2001 10:24:54 PM
Are we allowed to post Spoilers?
340. AceofSpades - 2/23/2001 10:26:46 PM
In white font, with big SPOILER warnings, I suppose.
Check for dust before you post.
341. AytchMan - 2/23/2001 10:34:48 PM
fielding--
What did you have in mind? Inside info on future episodes?
342. Fielding - 2/23/2001 10:37:08 PM
This link purports to disclose a major event from next week. If it is true, it will be a major event in the history of television. Personally, I think it is bullshit disinformation planted by CBS.
Major SPOILER - Click at your own risk!
343. AceofSpades - 2/23/2001 10:40:25 PM
Eeek! DO NOT CLICK ON THAT SPOILER!!!
It's too big of a spoiler. "Major" sort of understates it.
The spoiler reveals (or purports to reveal) the contestant involved in the "unfortunate incident" seen in the previews for next week's show.
344. AceofSpades - 2/23/2001 10:42:24 PM
It also seems pretty real.
345. AytchMan - 2/23/2001 10:43:28 PM
I see no problem with links to other sites that purport to know what's going on.
If somebody actually knows something, please keep it to yourself. Use it to win the Bragging Rights Pool, fast approaching.
346. AceofSpades - 2/23/2001 10:46:14 PM
Aytch,
well, it's what appears to be a newspaper clipping from an Australian newspaper.
And it jibes with what *appears* to happen in the previews for next week's show.
347. AytchMan - 2/23/2001 10:47:28 PM
Interesting link -- and entirely appropriate.
It makes me suspicious that the news clipping doesn't have a date. Do Aussie papers routinely use a date? Who's our Oz expert?
348. JadeGold1 - 2/23/2001 10:48:23 PM
Rigged.
349. ScottLoar - 2/23/2001 10:49:44 PM
Yesterday I stumbled across Survivor for the first time and watched three-quarters of the remaining hour.
I think it terrible: a bunch of hyped-up hardbodies going tribal and carving up their own members. But no, they do differ from a real tribe. Real tribes don't throw out their members unless they are old and no longer productive, or go against tribal law and custom. These single-minded middle-class Americans are practicing social Darwinism at the behest of network television. And the assembly with torches and paint and shit... what a farce of ceremony.
Being Americans I imagine that at least one of the group will experience a religious conversion after the show and dedicate his life to blessing lamas or some such nonsense.
350. ScottLoar - 2/23/2001 10:51:30 PM
I found myself embarrassed watching the show.
351. AytchMan - 2/23/2001 10:55:49 PM
scott--
Think H. L. Mencken.
352. AceofSpades - 2/23/2001 10:57:41 PM
"Real tribes don't throw out their members unless they are old and no longer productive, or go against tribal law and custom."
Real tribes aren't made up of English-speaking computer software engineers competing for a cash prize, either. And real tribes don't have camera crews following them around.
Scott Loar is apparently surprised to find a *game* at the heart of a game show.
353. ScottLoar - 2/23/2001 10:57:44 PM
The allusion escapes me, for I've never read H.L. Mencken.
Yes, it's true.
354. ScottLoar - 2/23/2001 11:00:35 PM
No, Ace, it's not a game. It's - among others - English-speaking computer software engineers going tribal for the camera's eye, being called to great ceremony (even getting dolled up with warpaint) by a producer, and clutching the totem after running behind their pennant around a maze.
355. ScottLoar - 2/23/2001 11:01:14 PM
Rather, "inside" a maze.
356. ScottLoar - 2/23/2001 11:07:47 PM
Come to think of it, several "real" tribes have been followed by camera crews. National Geographic gave some writers and photographers a pretty good living by doing so.
357. AceofSpades - 2/23/2001 11:14:06 PM
Scott,
I'm sure it appears very, very silly to you *now*. It seemed absolutely ridiculous to me when I was first forced to watch it.
Watch two more episodes and it won't seem so silly anymore.
358. AytchMan - 2/23/2001 11:14:07 PM
scott--
No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American people.
359. AceofSpades - 2/23/2001 11:15:15 PM
Next week someone gets (HIGHLIGHT TO READ)viciously attacked by a crocodile and medevac'ed out to a trauma unit.
Now, that's entertainment.
360. ScottLoar - 2/23/2001 11:15:52 PM
AceofSpades, so I fear.
AytchMan, 'tis true, 'tis true.
361. ScottLoar - 2/23/2001 11:17:56 PM
I remember that immediately after Survivor the death of a contestant for prime time television was predicted.
362. AytchMan - 2/23/2001 11:21:02 PM
scott--
In your judgment, is a show like Survivor a 'bad' thing, however one defines 'bad'?
363. AytchMan - 2/24/2001 12:28:57 AM
Coming down your street, up your driveway and into the love seat right next to ya:
The Survivor Pool will open immediately AFTER the show next week. This time, you'll get to pick the Fab Final Four as well as the winner.
More details later.
364. JudithAtHome - 2/24/2001 9:19:27 AM
The movie Network also predicted this sort of "game" would hold the audience in thrall...I see it as a rather silly little exercise in greed and what people are willing to do for money. It's great fun to watch...
365. ScottLoar - 2/24/2001 9:20:58 AM
Is Survivor a "bad" thing?
Yes. When a people so divorced from genuine hardship, violence and importance in their own lives look to enactment of Lord of the Flies I think it bad circus. Look to the computer software engineer. He wasn't sorry for the other team, he wanted to crush them, "chop off their arms and legs", "gouge out their eyes", and on. Is this guy capable of doing so? I doubt that. I really doubt that. Just a loose mouth with no experience or knowledge of such things behind it. But sounds tough, "committed", "aggresssive", which is so pleasing to the audience who are denied their forum for expressing such feelings and so tune-in to watch the circus.
What genuinely upsets me is these people willingly place themselves in such a position and follow the instructions of their managers without question, without a single act that says "No, I remain true to my principles. I come from a civilized society." Hell. If my team had won the trinkets necessary to their daily life - shampoo -I like to think I'd have taken one bottle and just given it to the other group, and to hell with the producers because I'm in control. But among these people, any veneer of decency or consideration is gone, supposedly justified by "the prize". I guess their self-esteem comes cheap. And is their collective situation desperate? It seems they've fostered much of their own misery with candy-ass gripes, hissy fits, and back-biting. Guys sprawl in the sand miffed that they've got to bury fishguts while two girls go to fish; others mope about to wallow in their "feelings" while some few stride about to no effective purpose. That's how they pass the bulk of the day as their misery grows.
366. MsIvoryTower - 2/24/2001 9:22:45 AM
No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American people.
Hahaha! This is so true.
However, since reality TV is a European import, I think we can blame it on them this time. Double HA!
367. MsIvoryTower - 2/24/2001 9:24:17 AM
Scott
I'm sympathetic. But what's more disturbing is that while I see exactly the same things you do, I'm still driven to watch this thing.
I'm appalled at what that says about me.
368. ScottLoar - 2/24/2001 9:28:27 AM
I recall reading many years ago West Point began mandatory sparring exercises for incoming freshman after coming to realize most of the incoming young men (before the time women were allowed) had never been in a fistfight. Americans do not, in the main, have direct experience of violence, hardship and events which test one's character. Instead, I see them increasingly turning to the vicarious thrills of watchers of rough sports, news footage of war, disasters and human pain, and video games with gore aplenty, and for reason that their own lives are so goddamned predictable.
369. JudithAtHome - 2/24/2001 9:29:05 AM
Scott:
Do you really see a difference in the daily life of "some people" not involved in a game to capture wealth and fame, fleeting though both may be? How many people who come into inherited wealth (shampoo) donate much of what they have to those less fortunate? Some do, true, but I would wager more don't. And how many people walk around in a fog, day to day, self-absorbed to the point of distraction, thinking of nothing but their jobs and clothes and cars? And how many people sit around doing nothing while others do their dirty work?
If you ask me, this "game" isn't that far from real life.
370. ScottLoar - 2/24/2001 9:30:59 AM
MsIvoryTower,
I'm reminded of early Christians hearing the roar of the crowds in the colliseum tearing at their promise not to attend and be true to their faith.
371. ScottLoar - 2/24/2001 9:33:56 AM
No, JudithAtHome, this circus ain't real life. Yes, their responses to the situations are real and genuine, but these people have abandoned their autonomy, their pride, their sense of whatever makes them a human being to the producers. And they're being used like the shit they've become.
372. MsIvoryTower - 2/24/2001 9:36:05 AM
Scott
Message # 370
Mea culpa.
373. ScottLoar - 2/24/2001 9:36:11 AM
JudithAtHome, these are people who after two weeks have not improved their material well-being or sense of cooperation one iota. They've become like zoo animals reliant on their keepers for scraps of meat, and always well within the bounds the handlers prescribe.
374. ScottLoar - 2/24/2001 9:36:31 AM
Corrigendum: proscribe
375. JudithAtHome - 2/24/2001 9:49:11 AM
I see what you mean but what is fascinating to me is how readily we all give ourselves up to watching it... we meaning those who do; I realize a larger portion of the country isn't doing so.
Did you hear how many tried out for this show? Something like 200,000 to 400,000. They knew what was expected of them, too...so evidently there are plenty out there who are willing to debase themselves in this way. The sole excuse for it is money and people do degrading things for money every day.
376. ScottLoar - 2/24/2001 9:51:15 AM
Oddly enough, I don't think it's the money. No, it's the chance to live out an adventure. Well, a safe adventure, but damn the humiliation because, well, I like to win, win, win!
377. ScottLoar - 2/24/2001 9:51:50 AM
You're right. It's not humiliation but debasement which they tolerate.
378. ScottLoar - 2/24/2001 10:45:30 AM
Message # 370 Specifically, St. Augustine (354-430 A.D.).
379. ScottLoar - 2/24/2001 11:06:25 AM
Can you imagine any of these Survivor contestants with Shackleton?
380. AceofSpades - 2/24/2001 1:48:14 PM
"JudithAtHome, these are people who after two weeks have not improved their material well-being or sense of cooperation one iota."
Not true. Kucha tribe catches fish, and caught a pig as well.
381. JudithAtHome - 2/24/2001 1:59:22 PM
So, Ace, did you read the spoiler? I don't think it's necessarily true.
382. AceofSpades - 2/24/2001 2:29:29 PM
JAH:
The previews for next week show implied that the "incident" was of a kind described by the article.
Maybe the producers lied to us; but they haven't done so thusfar. When previews promised a pig-killing, the following show delivered a pig-killing.
Assming that the "incident" is correctly identified, the article can only be wrong on the point of who suffers the "incident."
So, sure, it could be wrong. Someone could have seen the preview, made a deduction, then guessed as to who suffered the incident.
All we know is that 1) it involves a Kucha tribe member; 2) it is not Elisabeth; and 3) it is probably not Kentucky Joe (seen hugging Elisabeth in preview, though this could be a misleading bit of footage, a shot taken well before the incident).
So it's either Alicia, Jeff, Michael, or Nick.
383. AceofSpades - 2/24/2001 2:32:17 PM
We have no reason to believe the article is genuine; on the other hand, we have no reason to believe it's fake, either.
If it's a fake, it's pretty well-done. I enjoyed the versimilitudinous details about _______ being attracted by the scent of ______.
Could someone have made all that crap up? Yes. But still, it has the ring of truth.
384. JadeGold1 - 2/24/2001 2:35:22 PM
It's true. If you followed the hype prior to this season, you'd know the producers were talking about it.
There's also another "incident" coming up in a future episode.
It doesn't matter. This is merely background for a predetermined outcome.
Remember, contestants only spend less than 40 days in the field.
385. JudithAtHome - 2/24/2001 2:36:10 PM
I liked that touch, too but will discuss a reason for being skeptical after we learn if it is true or not...on Friday, in other words.
386. AceofSpades - 2/24/2001 2:38:19 PM
JAH:
If you have a reason to be skeptical, please tell me *now.*
Use white font. Like this: Left angle-bracket font color="white" right angle-bracket... Text of your skepticism... then close font.
387. JudithAtHome - 2/24/2001 2:41:41 PM
I've tried that before and screwed it up...Be patient and I'll see if I can do it again, without the screwup.
388. AceofSpades - 2/24/2001 2:43:26 PM
JAH:
You could always try substituting blanks (______) for key words/names.
I can figure out what you're saying.
389. AceofSpades - 2/24/2001 2:46:23 PM
Are you skeptical because a ______ might not _______ if she hasn't been eating much?
But they have been eating enough over at Kucha.
390. JudithAtHome - 2/24/2001 2:47:03 PM
Okay...maybe this will work:
Alicia may not have experienced periods due to her excessive training and working out; many times, extremely athletic women stop having periods while engaged in strenuous activity like that.
Did that work?
391. JudithAtHome - 2/24/2001 2:48:03 PM
Okay, cool...thanks for the coaching in white font, Ace!
392. AceofSpades - 2/24/2001 2:48:31 PM
See above.
393. JudithAtHome - 2/24/2001 2:50:18 PM
Right.
It will be interesting to watch on Thursday, that's for sure.
Burnett knows his stuff...he's a showman.
394. JadeGold1 - 2/24/2001 2:51:42 PM
Judith:
Your physiology is a little off. That sometimes happens to long distance runners at the world-class level.
395. AceofSpades - 2/24/2001 2:56:13 PM
JAH:
That is a common enough phenomenon, but it's not a rule. It happens to some, under some circumstances. It doesn't happen to most.
It's not really a good reason to be skeptical. You're postulating that a semi-uncommon condition *might* have occurred, and that therefore a detail in the story is erroneous.
396. AceofSpades - 2/24/2001 2:58:10 PM
Mark Burnett has spoofed us before, though. He made an intentional "mistake" on the website to make people think Gervase won the game, which he of course had not. He also planted stories in the press about Gervase driving around in a brand-new Jeep Cherokee and living the high life.
397. AceofSpades - 2/24/2001 3:09:55 PM
398. JudithAtHome - 2/24/2001 4:09:29 PM
That sometimes happens to long distance runners at the world-class level.
And to gymnists who train everyday. And to others. I wasn't stating it as bonafide fact in every case, just saying maybe.
399. AytchMan - 2/24/2001 6:45:47 PM
scott--
With all due respect, I think you're being a little tough on both the show and the contestants.
It's an entertainment show, not a re-creation of a tribal village and The Struggle To Preserve The Species. Besides which, there has been some danger. In the first show, one contestant took a hit from a sting ray and suffered a paralyzed arm for a couple of days. Plus, everybody lost 20 or 30 pounds.
As far as the contestants' behavior goes, the objectives are different as well. The competition in the show has been jacked up and the benefits of cooperation reduced.
Still and all, no one's arguing that Survivor is high culture or even great television.
Given that it's a game show, don't you find the strategies and alliance-building interesting? Do you still think it should not be shown?
400. ScottLoar - 2/24/2001 6:55:42 PM
Of course it can be shown. Of course those who want to see may see it; my objections are pointed and I thought fairly well reasoned out, but my opinion is only that, an opinion not an ukase.
Strategies and alliance-building interesting? Hell, man, I work in the corporate world.
401. ScottLoar - 2/24/2001 7:02:57 PM
Again, Survivor gives most (all?) a vicarious thrill. I find the show demeaning, the contestants (yes, that's what they are) at the beck and call of handlers like zoo animals. I look to one act of defiance, one gesture that says "Fuck you, I'm acting as I see fit" and against the show's manipulations and boundaries.
Yeah, I'm hopelessly juvenile in my expectations of myself and others.
402. AytchMan - 2/24/2001 7:10:26 PM
scott--
I may have read too much into your case against the show. I got the impression you thought it a borderline evil rather than just low television.
403. ScottLoar - 2/24/2001 8:53:55 PM
I am often overly dramatic.
404. AytchMan - 2/25/2001 5:01:44 PM
Well, you're in the right thread.
405. Autodaffy - 2/25/2001 10:33:26 PM
If the same team loses immunity this week, who will be expelled?
406. AytchMan - 2/27/2001 12:42:40 AM
The Countdown to the Survivor Pool Begins:
At this time, we are pleased to recognize the winner of the First Annual (Sort Of) Survivor Pool from last August: Judith@Home. The Honorable Mention went to runner-up PsychProf.
407. Autodaffy - 2/27/2001 1:47:33 AM
Nobody can pick losers like those two.
408. JudithAtHome - 2/27/2001 10:12:16 AM
Thanks, we love to have your input!
And in case you missed the point of the game, we picked the winners.
The glass is half full to us, Daf...not half empty.
409. Fielding - 2/27/2001 12:35:12 PM
Another Spoiler, this one contradicting the one I posted the other day. The producers are awfully good at planting stuff.
WARNING - CLICK AT YOUR OWN RISK!!
410. AceofSpades - 2/27/2001 12:40:59 PM
Fielding
Heh. I already saw that. That stinks of a plant to me.
It should be noted the preview for this week's show suggests something else... and, as I've said before, the previews have not been misleading thusfar.
411. bubbaette - 2/27/2001 12:42:28 PM
What do people expect -- that the producer would wait to see if gangrene set in and then make medical care available?
412. PelleNilsson - 2/27/2001 1:42:02 PM
An amputation may spice things up. In particular if done in the traditional way: plenty of whisky, piece of wood to bite down on, hacksaw. Perhaps boiling oil to top it off.
413. JadeGold1 - 2/27/2001 1:46:41 PM
Boiling pitch, you mean. Cauterizes the wound.
The competition is rigged.
414. bubbaette - 2/27/2001 1:54:50 PM
If they really wanted to spice things up, they'd give the contestants weapons -- no more voting off the island -- you go feet first. Then that immunity idol would REALLY mean something.
415. AceofSpades - 2/27/2001 2:00:07 PM
"Boiling pitch, you mean. Cauterizes the wound."
Yes, pitch and pitch alone has the magical quality of cauterization. No other substance can be heated to cauterize a wound; only pitch, and pitch alone.
Steel will not work; oil will not work. Gunpowder will not work.
Just magical pitch.
416. JadeGold1 - 2/27/2001 2:00:27 PM
No kidding, bubbaette. The ratings would be through the roof.
The contestants would probably attack the cameramen and Mr. Dimples, though.
417. JadeGold1 - 2/27/2001 2:09:38 PM
Boiling oil doesn't cauterize well. It used to be used as a crude disinfectant.
Small wounds could be cauterized by hot irons. It is doubtful a hot iron would be used to cauterize as massive a wound as an amputation.
Gunpowder was used as a crude disinfectant as well. It would be ill-suited to cauterize an amputation.
Pitch, OTOH, cauterizes and seals a massive wound.
Hope this has been helpful in furthering your education.
418. PelleNilsson - 2/27/2001 2:33:51 PM
There are two schools: pitch or oil (as in olive oil). I'm an oil man myself but I don't categorically rule out pitch as an acceptable alternative (see how sweet and reasonable I am?).
419. JadeGold1 - 2/27/2001 2:36:46 PM
When amputating and cauterizing, sweet is always better than the alternative.
420. JudithAtHome - 3/1/2001 5:09:56 PM
Okay, my votes for the people getting the ax tonight are:
Ogacorps: Keith, with Jerri a close second.
Kucha: Alicia, with Jeff a close second.
421. AceofSpades - 3/1/2001 5:10:34 PM
No one's getting voted off tonight.
422. JudithAtHome - 3/1/2001 5:14:12 PM
Oh, that's right....whatever.
423. JudithAtHome - 3/1/2001 5:21:16 PM
Do you think they will have an immunity challenge, though?
If so, I say Ogrecorps wins.
What is there left to predict about tonights show, then?
424. AceofSpades - 3/1/2001 5:48:03 PM
JAH,
I don't know how they'll deal with the ______ as it effects the Immunity Challenge. I presume that they don't want to shorten the show's run by a week, and that therefore the _______ will be treated as an automatic ____________.
As for what's worth speculating about:
Well, there is the teeny, tiny little matter of who gets ___________, and what happens subsequently.
425. JudithAtHome - 3/1/2001 9:29:33 PM
Can't wait til tomorrow morning to discuss ______ and the _________.
426. AceofSpades - 3/1/2001 10:58:04 PM
Well, the preview was misleading; as everyone now knows, it wasn't a crocodile attack at all.
427. AytchMan - 3/2/2001 12:17:51 AM
Great episode. In addition to the unfortunate but amazing departure of Michael, the Reward Challenge was very well done. Both the concept and the coverage. Survivor scores again.
The Survivor pool will open shortly. I'll post the horrendously complex set of rules in a bit, including insurance waivers, handling fees and media tie-ins.
428. AytchMan - 3/2/2001 12:37:15 AM
The Second Annual (Sort Of) Survivor Pool is now on the air:
Step One. Pick four of the ten remaining contestants to reach the Fab Final Four. Each correct pick earns one (1) point.
Step Two. Pick the eventual winner. A correct pick here earns two points.
Thus, a perfect score is six. The more perspicacious among you will note that merely picking the winner is not a guarantee of victory.
The Grand Prize is A Complete Set Of Bragging Rights (Engraving Optional) until Survivor 3.
Important Note Of Potentially Cosmic Significance: In the event of a tie, the earliest entry wins.
All decisions of Professor Lowbrow are equally arbitrary and final. The Winner is responsible for all taxes and inquiries from foreign governments.
429. AytchMan - 3/2/2001 12:53:52 AM
The ten remaining contestants (in no particular order):
Alicia
Elisabeth
Rodger (Kentucky Joe)
Colby
Tina
Jerri
Nick
Jeff
Amber
Keith
In a day or so, I'll add a brief handicapping summary for those not familiar with the show.
430. JudithAtHome - 3/2/2001 8:41:10 AM
Do we post our picks here or send them to you?
431. JadeGold1 - 3/2/2001 9:51:33 AM
Cute Article on the Rigged Show
432. ScottLoar - 3/2/2001 11:21:35 AM
Final Four:
Alicia (hardbody, purposeful stride)
Rodger (avuncular type)
from here on in I'm really guessing based on the 3/4 of one episode I saw)
Jerri (I like the name)
Nick (don't know who this guy is)
Ultimate Survivor:
Rodger (Kentucky Joe)
433. Stephanie D. - 3/2/2001 1:46:24 PM
I couldn't believe last night's episode. I bawled my eyes out. And I didn't particularly like Michael "God Has Appointed Me Leader" Skupin. But oh, I felt so bad for him, how horrifying to see the skin hanging in shreds from your hands! I thought he was quite brave, he didn't get all hysterical, which I certainly would have done.
Interestingly, this event has cemented the Kucha tribe closer together than ever. Losing Kimmi helped too. I think they're going to stick together like glue for as long as possible. I see Colby trying to forge an alliance with them so he can join in voting off the Ogakor losers, whom he now despises, ASAP.
I can see Rodger as the ultimate survivor too. But a lot depends on the immunity challenges. Remember last time how Kelly won something like four in a row? Without that she never would have lasted to the end.
434. JudithAtHome - 3/2/2001 1:52:29 PM
I think Colby will forge an alliance with the Kuchas and go after Jerri...Jerri is the next to go. With Keith and Colby after Jerri, Tina will follow...she's pissed at Jerri, anyhow.
Jerri will be in a catfight with Alicia in no time flat. She is the devil-woman incarnate.
435. JadeGold1 - 3/2/2001 1:54:39 PM
Stephanie:
Hate to break it to you but the show is rigged. Rodger stays in the mix so long as the show's producers feel he is appealing to a certain demographic in the audience.
The show's producers are looking for two characteristics in a contestant: a. appeals to a certain demographic and b. actively plots and schemes and competes.
436. Stephanie D. - 3/2/2001 1:58:55 PM
I definitely think Jerri is next to go, if she doesn't win immunity. Colby is fed up with her and I can't see the Kucha people liking her either.
437. PelleNilsson - 3/2/2001 2:05:26 PM
OK
I have no idea of what is going on. I nominate Rodger, Nick, Amber and Jerri for the final four with Jerri to win.
I suggest that anyone who does worse than me should
(a) Receve the Great Turnip Consolation Price.
(b) Be required to post ten times in Bold Italics "I did worse than the Swede who has never seen the show".
438. JudithAtHome - 3/2/2001 2:06:34 PM
Jade:
If Rodger has already won the game, which was in the can months ago, how are the producers manipulating the outcome? Have they filmed more than one final triabl council and are making decisions on polls taken along the way from the viewing audience? Have they done focus groups at some secret location and threatened them with death if they reveal that fact?
You insist the show is rigged....after it is done, how can this work?
439. Stephanie D. - 3/2/2001 2:13:38 PM
Final Four: I nominate Rodger, Elisabeth, Alicia, and Jeff.
440. JadeGold1 - 3/2/2001 2:19:06 PM
Judith:
I thought I'd addressed that question some time back.
Briefly recapping, the shows are taped; there is already a "winner" of Survivor II. The show is taped over a 39-day period. During this period, in an ongoing process, the tape is submitted to focus groups internal to the show. Based upon the results of these focus groups (and the show's producers), certain contestants are selected for advancement and others are filler.
The producers then formulate the "competitions" to favor the strengths of the favorites. For example, if Rodger is selected as a producer favorite, the competitions will be oriented toward problem-solving and away from more physical challenges.
441. JudithAtHome - 3/2/2001 2:23:12 PM
Riiight....got it.
Next up on Court TV: Survivor: The Trial. Tune in to see Burnett and Company sued by the FCC for breaking Quiz Show rules.
442. JadeGold1 - 3/2/2001 2:30:55 PM
Judith:
There's an element of plausible denial. After all, it would be very difficult to prove short of Burnett, himself, confessing. He could claim that the winner was determined by the contestants. It's not as if he's providing answers to quiz questions to certain contestants.
If you look back at the quiz show scandals, they only came to light when a single contestant came forward. On Survivor, I doubt that the selected "winner" is informed as to the aims of the producers.
I wasn't aware that Survivor is a quiz show.
443. AceofSpades - 3/2/2001 3:11:11 PM
Oh, sad day...
I've done the math. 5 to 5. Kucha has no advantage over Ogakur.
I've tallied up the amount of screentime given to participants: Ogakur is going to win.
Shit. One tribe is full of nice people who actually bother hunting and fishing and *praciticing* for challenges (did you see them praciticing moving blindfolded? Go team!), the other tribe just lays around and bitches and fantasizes and schemes and snipes.
Guess which team wins?
Jesus! Jerri is really going to win the money. Ain't that a kick in the balls?
444. AceofSpades - 3/2/2001 3:18:00 PM
Final Four: I nominate Rodger, Elisabeth, Alicia, and Jeff.
Ahhhh... no Nick, I imagine, because he doesn't have a buddy. Perhaps Nick's buddy was Michael; but now Michael's gone. So poor Nick, all alone, must compete with the Elisabeth-Rodger team and the Alicia-Jeff team.
Too bad. I like Nick best of all.
But I think Kucha's going to lose. Just look at the huge disparity in screen-time given to Ogakur.
How will they lose? I don't know. This week is key, of course. If both teams stay solid, they can force a 5-5 deadlock in voting. The deadlock would be resolved, I assume, by going to the number of previous votes against the two people who are tied in terms of votes.
Now, Keith has two previous strikes against him. I believe only Jeff on the Kucha tribe has even a single strike against him.
Therefore, if Kucha all vote for Keith, and Ogakor all vote for Jeff, Kucha will win, and Keith will be expelled, and Ogakor will be on the road to complete elimination.
But... does Kucha know how many strikes Keith has against him? Wouldn't Ogakor safeguard that information?
And what if (gasp!) Keith wins the next immunity challenge?
Then it's bye-bye Jeff, and bye-bye Kucha.
B
445. JudithAtHome - 3/2/2001 3:21:43 PM
Jerri is the next to go, Ace...flat out the next to go. Mark my words.
As soon as Keith gets his hands on those spices and chicken, he is going to kick ass.
446. AceofSpades - 3/2/2001 3:23:57 PM
Oh: I think Jerry also has one strike against her.
So if Kucha votes for Jerry, and Ogakor all votes for Jeff, then the normal tie-breaker wouldn't work, because both Jerri and Jeff have exactly one strike.
What then?
I suppose there'd be another tie-breaker, one we haven't seen yet. Perhaps a completely random tie-breaker, like having Jeff and Jerry each draw for the high card.
Once again, whichever team loses next week loses any shot at the $1 million.
Jerry will draw the high card, of course.
447. JudithAtHome - 3/2/2001 3:25:02 PM
Jerri is doomed...pick another winner.
448. AceofSpades - 3/2/2001 3:26:49 PM
"Jerri is the next to go, Ace...flat out the next to go."
For Jerri to go "cleanly" (that is, without resort to multiple tie-breakers), at least one Ogakor member would have to defect to Kucha.
Why would any Ogakor member do that? Sure, it would be nice to vote off Jerri. But then, the defecting member would be signing his own death-warrant, for he will be the first member voted off once the rest of Ogakor is dispatched.
By voting against Jerri, the Ogakor member would be conceding the game and resigning from it.
Who do you suppose is dumb enough, or who hates Jerri enough, to do that?
Keith hates Jerri. But enough to give up $1 mil? I don't think so.
449. JudithAtHome - 3/2/2001 3:28:03 PM
Colby.
450. AceofSpades - 3/2/2001 3:33:25 PM
No. Colby fully understands that the short-handed team will be eliminated one-by-one. He has given three or four speeches to this effect.
Colby can vote against Jerri. Fine. But then next week, the Kuchas vote against Tina, then the following week against Colby or Amber. It is *guaranteed*.
Colby knows this. Everyone at Ogakor knows this. They are lazy and bitchy and good-for-nothing, but they understand the mechanics of voting.
451. AceofSpades - 3/2/2001 3:38:46 PM
JAH:
Please explain Colby's potential path to victory once Jerri is voted out.
452. glendajean - 3/2/2001 3:39:54 PM
Well, during season one I kept thinking that the ones not in the so-called alliance would figure out the mechanics of voting but they didn't.
And they got picked off one by one
453. glendajean - 3/2/2001 3:40:32 PM
I think Keith is angry enough at Jerri to vote her off regardless of strategy.
454. glendajean - 3/2/2001 3:41:01 PM
I like Colby the best. So I figure he's only good for two or three weeks, tops.
455. AceofSpades - 3/2/2001 3:42:11 PM
GJ:
One problem: If Keith votes against Jerri, he's also voting against Colby and Tina, because they will be the next victims.
Does Keith hate Jerri enough to not only vote against his own interests, but against the interests of people he sort of likes as well? Just to stop the Hag-Queen from winning?
456. AceofSpades - 3/2/2001 3:43:08 PM
Well, during season one I kept thinking that the ones not in the so-called alliance would figure out the mechanics of voting but they didn't.
Trouble is, GJ, all of this season's participants watched the first season. Probably five or six times.
457. AceofSpades - 3/2/2001 3:48:13 PM
Ogakor will win.
Kucha is more interesting -- for once, Good and Industry are more interesting than Evil and Sloth -- and yet you *barely* see any confessionals from the Good and Industrious tribe.
Nick? Jesus, he's barely on the show at all, despite all he brings to the table. Pretty Elisabeth? Two seconds, every other week. Sweet, underdog, rooting-interest Rodger? I don't know if I've heard him utter ten words. Alicia and Jeff? You barely see them, either; and what you see of them you only see because they're so confrontational and bitchy, respectively.
Meanwhile, every single boring, evil, scheming moment of Ogakor is lovingly documented-to-death... much like propaganda films of Nazi rallies.
458. glendajean - 3/2/2001 3:49:24 PM
Maybe so. The only hint of understanding that came when Keith-Colby-and the woman from Tennessee with the accent voted together against Mitchell. I think Jerri was shocked at that one.
Keith seems so egotistical that, yes, it seems to me that he is capable of cashing in everything to get revenge on Jerri. She seems to haunt his thoughts, so to speak.
I think that Michael, the guy who got roasted, was the prime motivator of his team to organize and to think strategically. He really got into it. Maybe that tribe will be less unfocused after the merger.
There is one other factor here -- the possiblity of cross-tribe alliances. Jeff-Alicia-Nick are tight. Roger-Elizabeth might end up connecting with Colby.
459. AceofSpades - 3/2/2001 3:51:22 PM
A Riefenstahl Nazi propaganda film of Ogakor: Triumph of the Shrill
460. JudithAtHome - 3/2/2001 3:55:26 PM
I definitely think Rodger and Elisabeth are prone to a Colby hook-up.
Ace, I don't know how to explain Colby or Keith winning after voting for Jerri but you can be damned sure she will get the ax next week. I just have a feeling it will be unaminous, too...after 30 minutes of Jerri, everyone will become aligned against her. Trust me, what you see as "good evil" is just plain evil.
461. PsychProf - 3/2/2001 3:56:58 PM
I wonder if Mike's fingieroast was rigged...
462. JudithAtHome - 3/2/2001 3:57:23 PM
A Riefenstahl Nazi propaganda film of Ogakor: Triumph of the Shrill
That was terrific!
All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing....well, all the good people are gonna be on Jerri like white on rice!
463. AceofSpades - 3/2/2001 4:00:16 PM
Two other points:
Ogakor now knows what happens in a deadlock. Kucha surely was told at one time what the procedure would be; but were they paying attention? Do they remember?
Ogakor knows to focus its votes on the Kucha member with the most previous strikes against him (Jeff, I believe). They will attempt to elicit this information from Kucha members; Kucha members may not realize the significance of the question, and may well tell Ogakor: "Jeff got a vote last week."
Meanwhile, Ogakor will hide the fact that Keith has two strikes.
If Kucha doesn't know Keith has two strikes, they will vote against the "weakest" member of Ogakor (Tina) or the most annoying (Jerri).
If they vote for Tina (or anyone but Keith or Jerri), they lose. If they vote for Jerri, they force a second tie-breaker, one (presumably) based on random chance.
Another consideration: Someone at Survivorsucks.com -- someone with far too much time on their hands -- noticed that in the first season, you could predict who'd make it to the final four based on the show's credit sequence. Those who survived for a long time had their pictures showed for a relatively long time, and their shots were relatively high-quality (that is, full face and in color). Those who were eliminated quickly had brief, poor-quality shots.
So this person took a stopwatch to the credits. Her conclusions? Ogakor members will make it to the final four. Only one Kucha member has a decent shot-duration and quality: The possibly traitorous, backstabbing Jeff.
464. JudithAtHome - 3/2/2001 4:02:55 PM
I thought Keith had 3 strikes...that's what they are saying in TT.
465. JadeGold1 - 3/2/2001 4:04:22 PM
No, Mike's injuries were real and a cost of the performance. I'm surprised more contestants aren't hurt or incapacitated by intestinal virus.
But it's immaterial to the fact the show is rigged.
Besides, it adds an element of excitement to what otherwise would be very boring. That's why they drugged a pig and led it into a camp where mike had expressed an interest in killing a pig.
It was very funny. Mike's been making all these noises about being Daniel Boone incarnate. Then he is attacked by a stationary fire.
466. PsychProf - 3/2/2001 4:06:39 PM
Jade...I was joking...but if they drugged a pig them I am really pissed...and people are worried about a dog race in Alaska...hahahahaha
467. AceofSpades - 3/2/2001 4:07:20 PM
I don't think he has three. I think he has two. Unless you count the additional strikes he got in the tie breaker (two more), in which case he'd have four, but I don't think you'd count those strikes.
In any event, he has more strikes than anyone at Kucha (I think). Kucha can win if they vote as a block for Keith; one he's gone, of course, they pick off every other Ogakor member, inexorably.
If they don't vote for Keith, they will lose. I must stress again: Ogakor knows how a tie-breaker works. Kucha may not.
Ogakor knows to keep Keith's two-strike-status a secret. Unless someone blabbed earlier when the tribes got together for their immunity challenge(a fair possibility, I admit), Ogakor is smart enough to keep this a secret in the future.
468. JudithAtHome - 3/2/2001 4:08:07 PM
Didn't you know? That was a piglet and Mike went into the fire when the mother pig came at him from behind. Payback and all that...
469. JadeGold1 - 3/2/2001 4:08:20 PM
Well, PP, people should be upset about the Iditarod. It's an inhumane event.
470. JudithAtHome - 3/2/2001 4:09:47 PM
No one on Kucha can have more than 2, right? There have 2 almost unanimous votes from Kucha...Deb and Kimmi.
471. AceofSpades - 3/2/2001 4:11:17 PM
"There is one other factor here -- the possiblity of cross-tribe alliances. Jeff-Alicia-Nick are tight. Roger-Elizabeth might end up connecting with Colby."
If they are smart, they will refrain from making such a deal as long as possible.
Rodger and Elisabeth can protect Colby while voting against all other Ogakor members... holding onto Colby until the Round of Six.
If these deals start earlier than that, all bets are off. If intratribe alliances break down quickly, it's anyone's game.
Well, not "anyone's" game. Then the most dispicable, backstabbing person is favored.
Hello, Jerri.
472. AceofSpades - 3/2/2001 4:12:40 PM
JAH:
Yes, I believe no one on Kucha has more than one. I could be wrong.
Wait a minute! DEBB voted for Jeff, too! DEBB voted for Jeff, and Kimmi voted for Jeff!
Jeff has two strikes!
Egad! Kucha's in worse shape than I thought!
473. AceofSpades - 3/2/2001 4:21:05 PM
Allright. I just tallied up the strikes.
Jeff has two strikes. Kimmi voted against him; Debb voted against him.
Jerri has two strikes. Mad Dog and Kel each voted against her, even as they themselves were booted out.
Keith has *three* strikes. He had three the week Mitchell got voted off (Mitchell-Jerri-Amber).
I was wrong; the Saloonies were right. I kept thinking that the Mitchell-Keith deadlock was a 2-2 tie; but of course it was not. It was a 3-3 tie.
474. AceofSpades - 3/2/2001 4:22:07 PM
(Keith may have FIVE strikes, if you count the two "bonus" strikes in the deadlock tie-breaker round. But I doubt you count those.)
475. glendajean - 3/2/2001 4:40:02 PM
First time around, Survivorsucks had all these elaborate theories on who the final four were going to be and the winner. They always called for Richard Hatch getting axed. And it never happened.
Who knows. I dislike Jerri, Keith and Jeff. So they'll probably survive. The woman with the Tennessee accent is whiney, too.
Funny about last night. The winning team practiced so hard and they still nearly lost it. That dumb Amber has no sense of direction. Wonder why they gave the picnic basket to her.
476. AceofSpades - 3/2/2001 4:42:01 PM
That dumb Amber has no sense of direction.
It sort of seemed like Jerri's fault to me. Jerri, after all, was the one with the eyes. I heard her screaming "GO GO GO!" without actually telling Amber what direction she should go in.
Colby sure seemed to think it was Jerri's fault.
477. AceofSpades - 3/2/2001 4:53:37 PM
GJ,
By the way, I think you may be right about cross-tribe alliances.
The first season was defined by cluelessness re: alliances, at least on the part of the Young Punks.
This season is defined by hyperawareness of the power of alliances.
People may be so hyperaware of the power of alliances that they are thinking of alliances two, three, four Tribal Councils down the line.
So, an insecure Elisabeth-Rodger tandem could very well wonder: "What good does it do me to vote off all the Ogakors, considering the fact that in the Round of Five (with only five Kuchas left) we will lose 3-2 to the Nick-Alicia-Jeff axis?"
And such thinking could radically alter strategy, of course.
So my speculation could all be a case of "fighting the last war" rather than the current one.
Eh. What does it matter. The show is rigged, my sources tell me.
478. JudithAtHome - 3/2/2001 4:55:51 PM
Yeah, it's out of our hands and has been from the beginning...rigged is rigged, after all.
479. glendajean - 3/2/2001 5:04:43 PM
What's rigged is Mark Bennett's telling of the story. He does it fairly well, I must say.
Maybe I am mellowing in my old age, but Jeff the host doesn't seem as uptight and obnoxious as he did the first time around.
I wish Colby and Roger and Elizabeth did hook up. They would be a good team.
480. AytchMan - 3/2/2001 5:13:30 PM
Clarification: Post both a final four and the eventual winner in this thread (for all to see). The deadline is next Thursday 6 pm central.
I'll post a summary of everybody's picks shortly.
Stephanie and Ace still need to post their pick for ultimate winner.
481. JudithAtHome - 3/2/2001 6:13:28 PM
Final four:
Keith, Rodger, Elisabeth, Colby.
Winner: Keith
(I don't have as strong a feeling about this one as I did about Richard...too bad.)
482. AytchMan - 3/2/2001 6:34:02 PM
Professor Lowbrow's Question Of The Day:
What would be a good location for Survivor 3? Why?
483. JudithAtHome - 3/2/2001 6:35:33 PM
Peru. In the Andes.
Because of the lack of oxygen...thin air lends itself to goofiness.
484. AytchMan - 3/2/2001 6:38:21 PM
Like, they need to get goofier?
485. JudithAtHome - 3/2/2001 6:39:44 PM
No. That was my point. At least they would have an excuse for acting like fools.
486. JudithAtHome - 3/2/2001 6:44:55 PM
Although....a cool million might be excuse enough.
So H-man, where do you think a good site would be?
487. AytchMan - 3/2/2001 6:47:41 PM
And they are acting foolishly or, at least, in ignorance.
It continues to astound me that few of the contestants seem to have learned anything from Survivor 1.
They should have known they'd need extra food and good shelter yet they spent most of their time laying about. Remarkable.
488. JudithAtHome - 3/2/2001 6:49:44 PM
Yes, at least the Kuchas have a clue about the food. The others are dense to the point of moronism.
489. AytchMan - 3/2/2001 6:54:03 PM
The Serengeti. Let all the endangered species have some fun for a change.
490. Stephanie D. - 3/2/2001 7:02:02 PM
My pick for winner is Rodger.
The thing about alliances within Kucha? I think the tribe is going to bond together and put aside internal differences now that the merger is happening, and will vote as a bloc. I think Colby believes he can work the game well enough to get in with them and not necessarily get voted off when the rest of Ogakor is gone.
491. AytchMan - 3/2/2001 7:06:53 PM
Hi stephanie--
You are now formally registered for the Pool and, thus, eligible for all prizes, awards, benefits, summonses, pre-trial hearings and bail money.
492. AytchMan - 3/2/2001 7:18:42 PM
The first in a mind-numbingly long series of Survivor Pool Status Updates:
Current Registered Picks:
scott -- Alicia, Rodger, Jerri and Nick with Rodger to win.
pelle -- Rodger, Nick, Amber and Jerri with Jerri to win.
judith -- Keith, Rodger, Elisabeth and Colby with Keith to win.
stephanie -- Rodger, Elisabeth, Alicia, and Jeff with Rodger to win.
And, As Yet Unregistered:
ace -- Rodger, Elisabeth, Alicia, and Jeff with ??? to win.
493. AceofSpades - 3/3/2001 12:04:51 AM
Aytch:
I haven't made any picks yet. You have me confused with someone else.
494. MsIvoryTower - 3/3/2001 12:30:58 AM
Well, I see we're busy trying to guess the outcome of Thursday's events.
Michael's burns were bad, bad, bad. Kucha looked shaken by the turn of events regardless of their tough talk.
I agree with Ace that next week's elimination will be the key to the whole thing. Whoever gets kicked off will trigger the eventual path to the winner.
Here's my take on the possible final fours:
If Elizabeth and Rodger figure out that Jeff and Alicia are determined to keep them out of the final four soon enough, they'll ally with Colby and Keith to pick them off. If they manage that, then they'll be the final four.
If E and R don't figure this out soon enough, they'll get picked off, probably right after Keith goes, and Alicia, Jeff, Nick and possibly Tina will be the final four. I think Alicia and Jeff will want to keep Tina because they won't believe she can make it. Rodger is also a possibility because of this as well, but once A and J go after Elizabeth, Rodger will turn on them.
SO, who will be the winner? Hmmmm, my guess is Jeff if the last scenario plays out, and Colby if the former one emerges (which is less probable).
495. AceofSpades - 3/3/2001 12:44:31 AM
Location of Survivor 3: Newark, NJ.
496. betsifur - 3/3/2001 6:01:00 PM
Final four: Colby, Alicia, Rodger & Nick
Winner: Alicia
497. AytchMan - 3/4/2001 4:31:07 PM
ace--
Sorry about that. You were referring to someone else's picks in your post.
As usual, mass firings will follow.
498. AytchMan - 3/4/2001 4:37:33 PM
msit--
Stop stalling. Your picks?
499. ScottLoar - 3/4/2001 11:18:47 PM
MTV runs "Kathy's So-Called Reality" commenting on Survivor, Temptation Island, and The Mole. I don't watch these shows but I do watch this program; it's a bitchin' delight.
500. Uzmakk - 3/5/2001 1:39:46 PM
Assign me a name and put me in the survivor pool.
501. MsIvoryTower - 3/5/2001 2:33:27 PM
H-man
Okay, my picks, or "Who I'm hoping will be the final four."
Elizabeth, Rodger, Colby and Nick
And my pick for winner is...
Colby
502. Uzmakk - 3/5/2001 3:22:24 PM
Elizabeth for winner.
503. AytchMan - 3/5/2001 10:55:41 PM
The second in a series of Survivor Pool updates that will outlast Time Itself:
scott -- Alicia, Rodger, Jerri and Nick with Rodger to win.
pelle -- Rodger, Nick, Amber and Jerri with Jerri to win.
judith -- Keith, Rodger, Elisabeth and Colby with Keith to win.
stephanie --Rodger, Elisabeth, Alicia, and Jeff with Rodger to win.
betsifur --Colby, Alicia, Rodger and Nick with Alicia to win.
ms ivory --Elizabeth, Rodger, Colby and Nick with Colby to win.
Incomplete:
uzmakk -- Elisabeth to win [please select your final four also]
504. Uzmakk - 3/6/2001 4:45:05 PM
Final four:
505. Fielding - 3/6/2001 4:54:47 PM
Aytchman:
Please send me an e-mail at fielding99@hotmail.com. Thanx.
506. CalGal - 3/6/2001 4:56:48 PM
Did anyone watch the Sopranos?
Furio, at a funeral, with his very large gun, "I want to tell the winner, 'Give me 25% or survive this, you motherfucker.'"
507. Fielding - 3/6/2001 4:56:49 PM
I've never watched the show, but I'll submit guesses if somebody tells me
1) Who is the most despised character?
and
2) Which remaining woman has the best bod?
508. JudithAtHome - 3/6/2001 5:12:16 PM
Jerri to both...
509. betsifur - 3/6/2001 5:27:55 PM
I think Alicia's got the best bod. But I'm something of a gym rat, so I guess I'm biased. Jerri is definitely the most hated, I think her looks enabled her to stick around, while a woman like Deb was voted off in the first round.
510. AytchMan - 3/6/2001 6:32:01 PM
fielding --
At your service. The email is, er, in the mail.
511. Fielding - 3/6/2001 9:49:51 PM
Aytch:
Right back at you.
512. AytchMan - 3/7/2001 1:46:00 PM
Reminder: The Pool closes Thursday, 6pm central.
513. AytchMan - 3/7/2001 1:50:20 PM
Professor Lowbrow's Question Of The Day:
Who's the most likable contestant? Will this do them any good?
For bonus points: Who was the most likable from Survivor 1?
514. CalGal - 3/7/2001 1:53:17 PM
Final four, at near random:
Jeff, Alicia, Keith, and Nick
Winner: Alicia
515. JudithAtHome - 3/7/2001 2:08:43 PM
Call me nuts but I thought Richard was very likable...he was not everyones cup of tea but I liked him. After Richard, I would say Gretchen but she seemd a little boring to me, too.
On this team, I think Rodger and Elisabeth are the most likable and trustworthy. I like Jeff for his bitchiness and Keith for his coolness under fire but neither of them is really likable.
516. AytchMan - 3/7/2001 2:17:41 PM
Is being likable an advantage in this environment?
517. JudithAtHome - 3/7/2001 2:19:57 PM
I think it is...just look at what happened to Debb.
Colleen lasted as long as she did because people liked her.
518. AytchMan - 3/7/2001 2:23:30 PM
Or did Colleen last because she wasn't a threat to anybody? Gretchen was likable and strong so she had to go.
519. Fielding - 3/7/2001 2:27:11 PM
I've never seen the show, but based on the snippets of discussion and my assumptions about hype:
Elisabeth to win
Jerri as runner-up
Tina in 3rd
Jeff in fourth.
520. AytchMan - 3/7/2001 2:39:44 PM
The third in an interminable series of Survivor Pool updates that will make your last migraine seem like Blessed Relief indeed:
scott -- Alicia, Rodger, Jerri and Nick with Rodger to win.
pelle -- Rodger, Nick, Amber and Jerri with Jerri to win.
judith -- Keith, Rodger, Elisabeth and Colby with Keith to win.
stephanie -- Rodger, Elisabeth, Alicia, and Jeff with Rodger to win.
betsifur -- Colby, Alicia, Rodger and Nick with Alicia to win.
ms ivory -- Elizabeth, Rodger, Colby and Nick with Colby to win.
uzmakk -- Jerri, Colby, Roger, and Nick with Elisabeth to win [a bold parlay to say the least]
cal -- Jeff, Alicia, Keith, and Nick with Alicia to win.
fielding -- Elisabeth, Jerri, Tina, and Jeff with Elisabeth to win.
521. Stephanie D. - 3/7/2001 2:41:52 PM
In Survivor I, Kelly wasn't very likeable and I think that's a big reason she lost to Richard, who might have been a scheming egotist but still managed to forge relationships.
That's why I don't see Alicia winning. Remember, the winner is decided by the vote of the last seven people voted off. Their criteria for voting won't necessarily be based on things like strength and skill, but more on popularity (though some may vote based on who they think played the game best). And Alicia is too independent, I think, to engender a lot of warm feelings.
Of course, a lot depends on who the last two people are. If the first one had been between Rich and Rudy, Rudy almost certainly would have won.
522. JudithAtHome - 3/7/2001 2:42:43 PM
I like Uzmakks picks....as you say, bold.
523. CalGal - 3/7/2001 2:45:25 PM
Aytch,
You could turn them into a webpage, yes? Pretty easy, and then you could just let people link to it to see.
524. JudithAtHome - 3/7/2001 2:45:53 PM
Stephanie...I agree; if Rudy had been there, Rich wouldn't have won. We saw Rudy as a bigoted old guy set in his ways but what mattered was the way the voters saw him. That's why he was axed by Sue.
525. Laura C - 3/7/2001 7:44:23 PM
Have not actually watched show; have read many summaries while supposedly working; have acquaintance who turned down gig to handicap final few episodes for CBS.
But what the hell.
Final four: Jerri, Elisabeth, Rodger, Jeff
Winner: Rodger
526. CalGal - 3/7/2001 7:45:16 PM
what does it mean, turned down gig to handicap?
527. Laura C - 3/7/2001 7:50:46 PM
Said acquaintance got an offer to appear on CBS every Friday as a guest expert, analyzing previous night's episode and guessing who would triumph, and incidentally promoting his book.
Due to another commitment, he turned down this national media exposure, stagnating his potentially huge book sales and greatly reducing the likelihood of my getting any kind of bonus this year.
Not that I'm bitter or anything.
528. CalGal - 3/7/2001 7:53:13 PM
Wow. That sucks.
529. Laura C - 3/7/2001 7:59:25 PM
Yeah, I understand why he had to do it (conflicting speaking engagement) but it still ticks me off, because it would have been such a great chance to leverage a bestseller. Which would be really good experience for my career, let alone the crass financial repercussions.
Oh, and of course I have no access to inside info; I can't even get him to do the damn show.
530. AytchMan - 3/8/2001 1:30:53 PM
Professor Lowbrow's Picks:
Jeff, Nick, Jerri and Rodger with Rodger to win.
The deadline is 6pm central. Currently, it's 12:30pm here in Central Time Land.
531. AytchMan - 3/8/2001 1:52:20 PM
Profesor Lowbrow's Question Of The Day:
What's the most valuable personal trait -- intelligence, looks, schmoozability or something else?
532. JudithAtHome - 3/8/2001 1:58:52 PM
H Man....
Schmoozability, no doubt about it...with a lot of physical ability in reserve.
(I'm assuming you mean for the show?)
533. iiibbb - 3/8/2001 3:28:52 PM
www.survivorsucks.com
534. JudithAtHome - 3/8/2001 3:32:23 PM
3i3b:
We have that linked in the butterscotch bar...
535. AceofSpades - 3/8/2001 3:33:01 PM
"What's the most valuable personal trait -- intelligence, looks, schmoozability or something else? "
Looks. Good looks can be parlayed into income exceeding the tough-to-get $1 million prize.
Colleen from Survivor 1 is in a movie. An Adam Sandler movie (though I'm not sure if Adam Sandler is in it or merely producing... I think it actually might be a Rob Schneider movie).
Now, that's not exactly big-time, but a Rob Schneider movie is HUGE movie, compared to 95% of other movies.
536. AceofSpades - 3/8/2001 3:34:30 PM
Okay, maybe "HUGE" in capital letters is overstating it quite a bit.
Let me put it this way: It's a real Hollywood movie, with real Hollywood salaries.
537. CalGal - 3/8/2001 3:36:08 PM
On the show, or in general? and "valuable" in what sense? Achievement, fame, and money? If so, I'd go with ambition and drive as the most valuable.
538. iiibbb - 3/8/2001 3:40:00 PM
such tiny letters...
I'm having a good time on survivorsucks... I've not watched a single episode and I am in 4th place in my group, and in the top 10% for the entire site.
it really bugs my friends who are 'fans'
539. JudithAtHome - 3/8/2001 3:41:16 PM
But isn't that like eating lo-fat ice cream?
540. AytchMan - 3/8/2001 3:41:59 PM
Winning Survivor. That is, the million. Not the ensuing stardom.
541. AytchMan - 3/8/2001 3:45:54 PM
Restatement:
Profesor Lowbrow's Question Of The Day:
In terms of winning the million dollars as final survivor, what's the most valuable personal trait -- intelligence, looks, schmoozability or something else?
542. CalGal - 3/8/2001 3:47:36 PM
Gosh. I don't watch the show, but I'd still have to go with intelligence. With the understanding that luck has a lot to do with it, I think you'd need intelligence to craft the strategy most likely to keep you in the game.
543. JudithAtHome - 3/8/2001 3:50:46 PM
If you watched the show, you'd know a finely crafted strategy can go up in smoke, so to speak, on a whim or misstep.
544. AceofSpades - 3/8/2001 3:53:43 PM
The show is rigged. The best "trait" is the advantage of being selected by the producers.
545. JudithAtHome - 3/8/2001 3:54:41 PM
Oh, of course...how could I have forgotten!
546. AceofSpades - 3/8/2001 3:56:05 PM
The show is rigged, Judith. Do you think that Gilligan has a chance of getting off the island in any episode?
He does not, because it is scripted. Think "TJ Hooker."
547. JadeGold1 - 3/8/2001 3:56:40 PM
Exactly.
The show's producers look for the most interesting contestant. Richard Hatch was that contestant in the first Survivor.
Of course, Hatch's fellow contestants were all either dumb or one-dimensional.
548. CalGal - 3/8/2001 3:57:14 PM
Judith,
Sure. Hence my mention of luck as the major factor. But luck is not generally considered a personal attribute.
549. JudithAtHome - 3/8/2001 3:58:05 PM
So which one has been crowned by the producers interest this time, Jade? Have you made your picks yet?
550. AceofSpades - 3/8/2001 3:58:35 PM
Precisely.
Think "BJ and the Seven Lady Truckers." They got rid of the monkey because it didn't have a high enough Q-rating; they found that big tits and daisy dukes shorts tested better.
Thus, they will keep Kimmi, because she has the biggest, dirtiest jugs.
551. JudithAtHome - 3/8/2001 4:00:10 PM
I still think schmoozability gets you a long, long way...with the other contestants and with the producers, too, if that's the way you want to view it.
552. JudithAtHome - 3/8/2001 4:01:01 PM
Um, Ace....Kimmi is gone already.
553. JadeGold1 - 3/8/2001 4:01:20 PM
Judith:
I made my picks two or three weeks ago.
BTW, it does no good to select the top four finishers since only the top three count. Selecting the fourth place finisher is meaningless.h
554. AceofSpades - 3/8/2001 4:02:10 PM
She will be back, just as popular characters recur on sitcoms.
The show is rigged. Think, "Pinky Tuscadero."
555. JudithAtHome - 3/8/2001 4:02:47 PM
Did you post them here? If you did, I've forgotten and if you didn't, are you going to?
556. JadeGold1 - 3/8/2001 4:06:20 PM
No, Judith. I didn't post them.
As I've said, the show is rigged. My posting the name of the "winner" isn't going to change that.
557. AytchMan - 3/8/2001 4:12:22 PM
jade--
Would you send me an email with the winner's name? I've already made my picks.
aytchman@yahoo.com
558. JudithAtHome - 3/8/2001 4:23:17 PM
Who said any of us posting the name of the winner is going to change anything? Hell, have a little fun...
I just kicked ass in Jeopardy....
559. JudithAtHome - 3/8/2001 4:24:18 PM
Oh, wait...don't tell me THAT'S rigged, too?
560. PelleNilsson - 3/8/2001 4:43:13 PM
CalGal
But luck is not generally considered a personal attribute.
Rember the girl in Niven's Ringworld?
561. Laura C - 3/8/2001 5:29:59 PM
Schmoozeability is good, but I'd have to say adaptability. Having the flexibility to switch strategies when the surroundings/companions/rules shift on you.
Damn, I'm going to end up watching this, aren't I?
562. CalGal - 3/8/2001 5:31:12 PM
Yeah, I tie adaptability to intelligence, but you're quite right. It's separate.
Pelle--I only read Ringworld once a long, long time ago (I don't like Niven), but I vaguely remember that.
563. AceofSpades - 3/8/2001 9:02:08 PM
Damn. What can I say? It sucks being right all the goddamned time. There are never any surprises.
Alas, the show now becomes very predictable, and very boring.
564. glendajean - 3/8/2001 9:14:58 PM
Colby's strategy -- draw votes to him, encourage Keith to win the immunity challenge, and silence on the rest of his tribe about who has a vote won.
The big fly in the oinment is the Jerri-Keith antagonism. I still think that Colby could put together an alliance of himself, Keith, Tina along with Roger and Elizabeth. That would be a tough alliance. Then vote off Alicia and Jerri. The rest will fall easily.
565. glendajean - 3/8/2001 9:15:48 PM
It is more predictable. The one factor to make it interesting is the immunity challenge. That and a fight or two can spin groups in different directions.
566. AceofSpades - 3/8/2001 9:25:01 PM
It was Kimmi who blabbed about who had previous votes.
I think you're being willfully optimistic. You're saying that "new alliances could form" because you *want* them to form.
Ain't gonna happen.
A moron knows he can get to the Final Five by keeping with the current alliance.
Furthermore, it is people's nature to delay making tough decisions, and too put such decisions (and the consequences which may flow from them) as long as possible.
567. AceofSpades - 3/8/2001 9:27:12 PM
I have to say Kucha didn't do itself any favors by giving up the challenge.
They were thinking as individuals -- "I don't need this immunity" -- rather than as a team -- "we have to deny Keith immunity, because he wants it the most."
Jeff bailed early. He needed immunity. But he bailed. Serves him right.
568. RosettaStone - 3/8/2001 9:28:40 PM
Jeff is gone. Just like I predicted.
569. MsIvoryTower - 3/8/2001 10:08:13 PM
Ha! Jeff bit the dust. Good riddance.
It's funny that you guys think this is predictable now, whereas I think this is the only possible way that it could be unpredictable. Had Kucha gained the upper hand tonight, they'd have stuck together and gotten rid of all the other tribe.
Now, I think things will be interesting, because Colby, Keith and Tina are more open to building cross alliances than anyone in Kucha was, and once they feel secure, maybe after getting rid of either Alicia or Nick (my hope is the former), they'll join with the rest of the old Kucha tribe to get rid of Jerri.
Ha! Tonight was a good outcome, IMO.
570. JudithAtHome - 3/8/2001 10:18:29 PM
They may do that sooner than you think, MsIT...like next week. The only thing that makes think they won't is the ads for next week point to it so it probably won't happen that soon but I hope it does.
Keith rocks!
571. MsIvoryTower - 3/8/2001 10:47:46 PM
Judith
The only reason I don't think they'll take out Jerri next week is because to do so brings the situation back to what it was before tonight: a tie among the two groups. I think Colby, Tina and Keith will wait before voting to eliminate her until they take at least one more ex-Kucha member out. I'm thinking that will be either Alicia or Nick.
572. MsIvoryTower - 3/8/2001 10:49:54 PM
And I agree about Keith. I'm sorry now I didn't include him in my final four, or Tina either. Tina surprised me tonight, she showed a strength and determination that could take her to the end.
All in all, tonight was full of surprises for me.
I'm also thinking that the ex-Kucha tribe must be sweating bullets about now. Time for a totally new strategy, eh?
573. AytchMan - 3/9/2001 1:53:53 AM
Final And Absolutely Positively Nighttime So-You-Can-Sleep Survivor Picks:
scott -- Alicia, Rodger, Jerri and Nick with Rodger to win.
pelle -- Rodger, Nick, Amber and Jerri with Jerri to win.
judith -- Keith, Rodger, Elisabeth and Colby with Keith to win.
stephanie --Rodger, Elisabeth, Alicia, and Jeff with Rodger to win.
betsifur --Colby, Alicia, Rodger and Nick with Alicia to win.
ms ivory --Elizabeth, Rodger, Colby and Nick with Colby to win.
uzmakk -- Jerri, Colby, Roger, and Nick with Elisabeth to win
cal -- Jeff, Alicia, Keith, and Nick with Alicia to win.
fielding -- Elisabeth, Jerri, Tina, and Jeff with Elisabeth to win.
laura -- Jerri, Elisabeth, Rodger, Jeff with Rodger to win.
aytchman -- Jeff, Nick, Jerri and Rodger with Rodger to win.
It is not inconceivable that interim scores and odds will be posted at some point.
574. glendajean - 3/9/2001 8:58:16 AM
Ace -- probably is wishful thinking on my part, but also based on how disdainful Jerri and Keith are of each other. I find it hard to imagine that Jerri will overcome that for a ride to the final four. Rationally she should, but human emotion may be a factor that prevents rational actions.
Kucha people ought to be motivated to break up into an alliance with somebody from the other side.
The wild card from here on out is the immunity challenge.
575. glendajean - 3/9/2001 8:59:12 AM
Jeff wildly predicted that they would chew up the other tribe and spit them out. Hahahaha
IMO, Colby rocks.
576. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 9:01:23 AM
Well I think it sucks. I don't even know if I can watch the show now.
Colby is okay. Keith is... okay, I guess. But I've been rooting for Kucha the whole time. And now they'll all be voted off.
Nick, my favorite, goes next week.
Thanks Kimmi! You big mouthed idiot!
577. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 9:03:13 AM
I can't say I understand how Jerri could possibly win, but somehow I still think she will.
For Jerri to win, she'd have to be in the final round with someone more repulsive than she.
I know of no such person.
578. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 9:07:34 AM
BTW, I think that 75% of the audience was rooting for Kucha. Any Kucha before any Ogakur.
Kinda knocks hell out of Jade's "rigged" theory.
Oh, no, wait -- no, the audience finds dispicable people more "interesting."
579. glendajean - 3/9/2001 9:35:01 AM
An interesting fact to remember -- everybody left will now serve on the jury. So an angry Jerri or Keith could join forces with former enemy tribe to deny who ever stabs them in the back when they pick the final winner.
580. JudithAtHome - 3/9/2001 9:35:27 AM
Jeff was great on the Early Show...said Jerri is a bitch. Who knew?
581. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 9:39:31 AM
I sort of liked Jeff the last two weeks. I didn't like him when he was bitchy and defeatist ("oh, sure, Michael's gonna catch a pig"); I liked him much better when he was gung-ho about "eating Ogakur's eyeballs."
Jeff angers me, though, because he KNEW that Ogakur knew he had one strike, and thus would vote against him, and yet he was the third person to give up.
That pisses me off. Kucha pisses me off generally for losing that challenge.
582. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 9:41:19 AM
By the way: How much more evidence did Kucha need that Jerri and Keith were the persons to vote for?
They were seething at each other the whole time. And yet Kucha voted for Colby, rather than Jerri.
Colby is a "threat," sure. But they all understood they had to vote for someone with at least one previous strike against them.
You have Jerri and Keith snapping at each other. Do the math: these people have voted against each other in the past.
583. JudithAtHome - 3/9/2001 9:43:18 AM
Yes, that was really stupid. But he must have felt he was doomed because he probably knew he wouldn't outlast the others and like he said today, he was hun-GRY!
He was so natural and unaffected on camera...I feel sure he will get offers.
584. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 9:47:59 AM
Yeah, I don't mind him anymore.
Survivor is both clever and infuriating. Why did THIS WEEK have to feature an endurance challenge, of all challenges? Far less random than any other challenge, an endurance challenge tends to reward those who want it/need it the most.
Any other challenge and it is 90% likely Kucha would still have five members. (Though, who knows --they still might have voted for Colby anyway.)
585. MsIvoryTower - 3/9/2001 9:48:37 AM
You guys. Jeff? A whiner.
As for ex-Kucha now being picked off, I bet they won't be. My guess is that one or two more will be targeted, but then Jerri and Amber will go. After that it will be a free for all.
Next to go is either Nick or Alicia, but my guess is Alicia, she won't be able to control her bossiness and hostility. And that will clash with Jerri. But Colby, Keith and Tina know should know they have to get rid of at least one more ex-Kucha before taking on Jerri.
The good news is that I really think Jerri is a marked woman, her time is coming soon.
586. JadeGold1 - 3/9/2001 9:50:40 AM
Anyone beginning to see the light? It's painfully obvious how the producers are guiding the diection of the "competition."
587. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 9:51:20 AM
Jeff whined a lot, but he's been better lately. Or at least they haven't shown his whininess.
You know-- the show really needs to move to a twice-a-week format. We really do need to see more interaction between people.
Perhaps Jeff has been as bitchy as ever... but they haven't shown it. They've only shown him saying he wanted to eat Ogakur's eyeballs and chew up their faces, a sentiment I heartily endorse.
588. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 9:51:56 AM
It's painfully obvious how the producers are guiding the diection of the "competition."
Indeed! The producers have skillfully given the public precisely what it didn't want.
589. Francis Urquhart - 3/9/2001 9:53:02 AM
Well, I want Jerri, but that is sole prurience.
590. Francis Urquhart - 3/9/2001 9:55:16 AM
She has a beguiling mixture of the rugged, the feminine, the lascivious and the cunning.
591. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 9:55:39 AM
You "want" her sexually?
She ain't good lookin', dude.
Amber is pretty hot. Elisabeth is in that category of "not exactly hot per se, but cute in a non-threatening manner that gives the illusion -- the ILLUSION -- of attainability, and thus drives geeks like Ace of Spades to distraction."
Jerri is just a scrawny chicken-legged hatchet-faced whelp.
592. JudithAtHome - 3/9/2001 9:55:49 AM
Perhaps Jeff has been as bitchy as ever... but they haven't shown it.
Jeff claimed he was only bitchy to the camera and that he had alerted the producers that when he was tired, hungry, or sleep deprived he became cranky and that they would ask him questions at those times so they could get that response...he said watching the show along with everyone else in America, he's wanted to crawl under the coffee table at times...its the editing.
593. JadeGold1 - 3/9/2001 9:56:55 AM
Didn't want?
To the contrary. That's why the show is rigged.
If it were a true competition, there'd be a risk that the more popular (audience favorites) would be vanquished. In a show running ten weeks that depends on viewer loyalty, that would be fatal.
594. Francis Urquhart - 3/9/2001 9:57:34 AM
Ace
All of them are attractive, none of them traditionally so. Even the hawk-nosed blond with the reptilian skin.
But Jerri has that something.
595. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 9:59:27 AM
Ah. If I don't want a contestant to win, the producers will make sure that person will win. Thus, "rigged."
If I DO want someone to win, the producers will ALSO guarantee that that person will win. Thus, "rigged."
If Jerri loses, it's rigged. If Jerri wins, it's rigged.
If Elisabeth loses, it's rigged. If Elisabeth wins, it's rigged.
596. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 10:00:05 AM
"But Jerri has that something."
Clamydia?
597. JadeGold1 - 3/9/2001 10:00:40 AM
Correct, Judith.
Jeff was a schemer. But his scheming was limited to on camera interviews. Within the group, he was content to fade into the woodwork and passively go with the flow.
That's why he was expendable.
The show wants, indeed, craves a schemer. But one who is actively engaged in implementing a plan.
598. Francis Urquhart - 3/9/2001 10:01:07 AM
Ace
I would have guessed Chanel.
599. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 10:02:19 AM
FU,
Are you sure you're not gay?
600. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 10:03:01 AM
"All of them are attractive, none of them traditionally so. "
On what planet is Amber not "attractive in a traditional way"?
601. Francis Urquhart - 3/9/2001 10:03:02 AM
Ace
Reasonably.
602. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 10:03:19 AM
FU,
I'm not so sure.
603. Francis Urquhart - 3/9/2001 10:03:27 AM
Which one is she? The lithe blonde with the button nose?
604. JudithAtHome - 3/9/2001 10:03:57 AM
I would have guessed Chanel.
More like channel cat.
605. MsIvoryTower - 3/9/2001 10:04:03 AM
This is funny.
Jerri is manipulative, devious, selfish and uncooperative, a user, and this is the one the guys are going hot over?
And then men bitch about women? Too, too funny.
606. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 10:04:22 AM
Amber is the lissome, big-boobed brunette who votes with Jerri.
She's not quite as hot as Mia Sara, but she looks something like her... except with C-cups.
607. Francis Urquhart - 3/9/2001 10:04:51 AM
Jerri reminds me of the second girl to be killed in any Friday the 13th. Because she's having sex with Kevin Bacon, she must die by way of a fishing spear.
608. JudithAtHome - 3/9/2001 10:05:56 AM
Did y'all notice Amber snuggling in Jerris arms with a blanket wrapped around both...she looked pretty comfy there.
609. Francis Urquhart - 3/9/2001 10:06:08 AM
Ace
Um. I strongly suspect Amber is retarded. Now, that may improve your chances, but it is not a particularly attractive feature in a woman.
610. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 10:06:49 AM
Did y'all notice Amber snuggling in Jerris arms with a blanket wrapped around both...she looked pretty comfy there.
zzzzzzip
611. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 10:07:17 AM
"Um. I strongly suspect Amber is retarded. "
I'll have you know she was a Public Relations major.
612. Francis Urquhart - 3/9/2001 10:08:19 AM
I retract.
613. Francis Urquhart - 3/9/2001 10:08:54 AM
MsIt
I never bitch about women.
614. Francis Urquhart - 3/9/2001 10:09:22 AM
Except for all the lesbians who won't have sex with me.
615. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 10:09:34 AM
I hope that works. It's not geocities.
616. MsIvoryTower - 3/9/2001 10:11:08 AM
No? good for you.
Judith
Amber in the arms of Jerri? That ought to fuel a host of male fantasies. I wonder, do you think that was the thought of the producers when they included it?
Oh my. It's all a plot.
617. MsIvoryTower - 3/9/2001 10:15:16 AM
Btw,
I heard that the producers are going to re-run last nights episode sometime in the next week, including some new footage, and adding commentary that fills in what has happened to get the group to this point.
I missed when it was supposed to be aired, but I think maybe before the next show. And that reminds me, I also heard that the show moves to Wednesday for the next couple of weeks so that the network airing it can cover some basketball (?) event.
So, set your timer for next Wednesday to catch the coming episode.
618. JudithAtHome - 3/9/2001 10:16:15 AM
That ought to fuel a host of male fantasies.
Probably more so than Sue and Kelly...
619. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 10:17:59 AM
I just read that, three seconds ago.
620. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 10:27:52 AM
Jeff had two previous votes against him -- not one, as he remembered. (Debb and Kimmi.)
Jerri actually had two previous votes against her, too -- Kal and Maddog.
If Kucha has just voted for Jerri, they would have forced a third deadlock. Presumably the deadlock would have been broken by who had won either the most challenges, or the most immunity challenges, or some random way of breaking the deadlock.
Why the hell did they vote for Colby?
621. glendajean - 3/9/2001 10:32:28 AM
Because Colby represented the strongest threat. In the first season, there was a quiet woman who was an Army survival specialist -- Gretchen. Surprising everybody, the alliance voted her off at the merger.
Colby said prior to the vote that he wanted to get the votes to come to him, to shield one of his vulnerable, and make sure that the other won the immunity challenge.
622. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 10:38:32 AM
"Because Colby represented the strongest threat. In the first season, there was a quiet woman who was an Army survival specialist -- Gretchen. Surprising everybody, the alliance voted her off at the merger. "
I know. But that was a completely different situation. The voting alliance was secret.
This time, everyone diagnosed the situation *perfectly*. Both teams knew they had to vote for the member of the other tribe with the most previous strikes.
Did they imagine Colby had the most previous strikes? Apparently so. But why>/i>?
Meanwhile, you've got Jerri and Keith snapping at each other... and no one picks up on that.
I want to read Jeff's chat transcript (it's not available yet). I want to know precisely what chain of bonehead reasoning figured Colby for the least popular member of Ogakur.
623. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 10:39:23 AM
Ooops. Toys.
Meanwhile, Survivorsucks.com asks the question: "Hey, Jeff-- was the fucking PEANUT BUTTER worth it?!?!"
624. JudithAtHome - 3/9/2001 10:44:17 AM
Maybe they read him throwing water on Jerri as an act of aggression and thought he would not be liked for that reason...whereas the opposite is true. Plus, Jeff knew instinctively that Keith had votes but when he won the immunity challenge, that threw them into a quandry. And Jeff said this morning they went straight from the end of the IC to tribal council; he said there wasn't much time to talk.
625. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 10:46:39 AM
JAH,
Oh, rightee! I forgot about that. You know, perhaps they even set that up for just this reason.
But then, which way does that cut? In other words, why assume Colby is the dickhead? I realize it's a 50/50 proposition, but still.
626. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 10:47:39 AM
"And Jeff said this morning they went straight from the end of the IC to tribal council; he said there wasn't much time to talk."
It's like an hour long hike.
627. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 10:50:21 AM
Keep in mind, Colby bailed out of the immunity challenge very early.
He wasn't worried.
628. JudithAtHome - 3/9/2001 10:50:38 AM
It's like an hour long hike.
From the old camps; are you sure it's that far from the new one?
As to the 50/50, they probably tipped it to Colby because of his strength? Or intelligence? All those things not so evident in Jerri, in other words. Big Mistake...
629. AceofSpades - 3/9/2001 10:51:48 AM
But strength is a reason to keep people, JAH.
Colby's strength would have been an asset to Ogakur previously. Thus, it is less likely he had garnered a lot of previous votes.
630. glendajean - 3/9/2001 10:56:47 AM
Colby did what Richard did in the first series, pulling out early on the pole standing.
Good strategy for a different reason (this season). Because Colby did it, it probably encouraged others to do it as well.
631. JudithAtHome - 3/9/2001 11:02:02 AM
But strength is a reason to keep people, JAH.
Not if you are thinking they might beat you in an IC next week....
And wasn't Kel strong?
632. Stephanie D. - 3/9/2001 11:24:17 AM
I'm so depressed.
I can't believe Kucha fucked it up that badly. Colby! You idiots!
sigh Anyway...interesting strategy from the producers this time around, to first separate the teams by gender and then make them set up an entirely new camp. A good way to try to break up the tribal alliances, though of course everyone still stuck strictly to their tribes.
633. Jon Ferguson - 3/11/2001 2:36:26 PM
I, too, was cheering for Kucha. But since they were idiotic enough to target Colby, I hope that Ogakur now runs the table and then immediately gets rid of Jerri. Alicia should be the first to go this week, unless she wins immunity.
As far as which woman is the sexiest, that Knoxville chick (I'm somewhat biased, UT Grad) was the hottest in her prime (perpetual high beams, beautiful body, classy) but the two petite, slender hotties are both currently 11's. Jerri is physically only an 8+ and her personality (and a couple of weeks of malnutrition) makes her more like a 5.
As far as the pool goes, perhaps a weekly pool makes more sense since most people miscalculated (figuring that it was highly unlikely that Kucha would self-destruct.)
The show might well be rigged but I don't think it's scripted. The producers have ways of promoting the desired outcome without blatantly telling people who to vote for.
The contention that the show is predictable is kind of stupid. Of course it's predictable once an alliance gains the upper hand. Perhaps they should have kept the tribes separate for longer or perhaps they could create arcane rules preventing 'bloc' voting. But the show's pretty damn entertaining just as it is, with or without a certain measure of predictability.
634. AytchMan - 3/11/2001 5:48:51 PM
No one asked but you're going to get them anyway -- Survivor Pool Projections:
So far, it's pretty straightforward. Everyone who included Jeff is drifting toward the toilette.
scott -- Alicia, Rodger, Jerri and Nick with Rodger to win. [.67]
pelle -- Rodger, Nick, Amber and Jerri with Jerri to win. [.67]
judith -- Keith, Rodger, Elisabeth and Colby with Keith to win. [.67]
stephanie -- Rodger, Elisabeth, Alicia, and Jeff with Rodger to win. [.56]
betsifur -- Colby, Alicia, Rodger and Nick with Alicia to win. [.67]
ms ivory -- Elizabeth, Rodger, Colby and Nick with Colby to win. [.67]
uzmakk -- Jerri, Colby, Roger, and Nick with Elisabeth to win. [.67]
cal -- Jeff, Alicia, Keith, and Nick with Alicia to win. [.56]
fielding -- Elisabeth, Jerri, Tina, and Jeff with Elisabeth to win. [.56]
laura -- Jerri, Elisabeth, Rodger, Jeff with Rodger to win. [.56]
aytchman -- Jeff, Nick, Jerri and Rodger with Rodger to win. [.56]
Report all errors to Janet Reno. Void where encouraged by law.
635. Jon Ferguson - 3/11/2001 10:54:30 PM
Nobody has even 2 of Amber, Colby, Keith and Tina (Ogakor's solid 4) in their final 4. Tina's likely to win. I assume the final immunity challenge will be the same as before (trial by boredom) and Tina could have won the last challenge standing on her head.
On the other hand, there are unconfirmed reports that Amber and Elisabeth are the final 2 (based on html coding at the CBS webpage) but the same thing was said the last time (predicting Gervase as the winner) so it's almost certainly not accurate.
It seems to me that the only question this week is whether or not Jerri abandons the alliance because she senses that the others will vote her off first as soon as Kucha is gone. Jerri is the only wild-card and it might well be in her self-interest to backstab since she ought to know that her old tribemates (at least Colby, Keith and Tina) don't like her and will vote her off as soon as it's safe. Of course, if she backstabs, she knows she'll never win the million bucks given that 4 members of the 7 member jury (assuming her betrayal leads to Ogakor's rapid exit) will be her 'victims'.
The most interesting scenario (outrageously speculative, of course) is if Jerri waits a week to backstab (let's assume Alicia gets voted off this week.) Then if Jerri joins Elisabeth, Nick and Rodger in voting for Keith and the rest of the Ogakor alliance vote for Nick (the obvious next choice as an 'immunity' threat) then Keith gets voted off by tie-breaker. Even if the Ogakor alliance gets wind of the betrayal and vote Jerri, she only has 2 previous votes against compared to Keith's 3 and Keith is still gone. Or they might even vote off Colby first (he has 5 votes against now) although it's hard to imagine that Jerri would be patient enough to delay Keith's exit and since she's the 'savior', she would call the shots.
Predictions: Will the final 4 be: All-Kucha, All-Ogakor, A mix?
636. AceofSpades - 3/11/2001 11:15:17 PM
Jon:
Jerri can wait until the Round of Six to backstab. She has Amber in her pocket (we assume); she would only need *one* Kucha to force a 3-3 deadlock. Since Jerri, Amber, and the saved-by-the-bell Kucha member would vote for Keith (with three strikes), they would then win, and could then proceed to eliminate Colby and Tina.
637. AceofSpades - 3/11/2001 11:16:23 PM
Actually, they could vote for Colby, too, since he has FIVE strikes.
The Keith-Tina-Colby troika is in trouble when it comes to a deadlock. The immunity necklace can only protect one of the two men with previous strikes.
638. AceofSpades - 3/11/2001 11:19:40 PM
Then again...
Why should Jerri backstab? In the Round of Five, Colby's best bet is to eliminate Tina or Keith.
Colby would *love* to be in the final two with Jerri. Anyone would love to be in the final round with Jerri.
So, just like it was in Rich's interest to keep Kelli in the game (and likewise, in Kelli's interest to keep Rich in the game), Jerri is a useful little bitch.
If Dr. Josef Mengele was in the final round with Jerri, I'd vote for the good Herr Doktor.
639. Jon Ferguson - 3/11/2001 11:34:54 PM
Flawless reasoning, Ace. I think you're right. Colby is more likely to want Jerri around than Tina and although I don't think Amber would backstab Ogakor for Jerri, I think that she and Jerri would (almost) never vote for each other. That leaves Jerri, Keith, Amber and Colby in the final 4. Colby likely wins immunity. Keith loses the tie-breaker to Jerri and Jerri, Amber and Colby go into the final. If it IS an endurance game, Colby might not even win the last immunity challenge (I think that chicks tend to win these types of challenges) and that leaves Jerri ($100K) and Amber($1M) with all the money.
That how you see it going down?
640. AceofSpades - 3/11/2001 11:57:30 PM
I don't necessarily see it that way. For one thing, Amber hasn't been featured on the show at all. Some websites call her "Miss Subliminal." Contrast that to the huge amount of camera time Rich garnered in the first season.
Now, might the producers be out-thinking us and going the opposite way, choosing to focus on the losers and ignore the winner to throw us off? Maybe, but I don't know.
Amber is a great threat simply because (so far) she hasn't stood out as a leader or bitch. Plus, she's really cute. So no one is going to want to go into the final round with Amber... my guess is, they'll get rid of her in the Round of Five or Four.
Other considerations:
Jerri has two strikes now. But she could get a whole lot more very quickly, if Kucha all votes for her. Kucha would lose (they would be outvoted), but Jerri would then have six previous strikes -- more than both Colby and Keith. Enough to make *her* the most vulnerable candidate in a deadlock.
641. AceofSpades - 3/12/2001 12:00:29 AM
Glendajean also suggests (somewhat wishfully) that the two voting blocks will fragment into *three* blocks: The Kucha rump, the Jerri-Amber duo, and some combination of Colby, Keith, and Tina as the floating, fluid "center," who might vote with one block one week and the other block the next, always making sure to be on the right side of things.
A tricky thing to pull off... and perhaps counterproductive, since you'd have to lie to everyone and betray them at one point or another. So, even if you could get to the Final Round, you'd be in trouble... unless, of course, your Final Round opponent is also a serial liar and betrayer.
642. AceofSpades - 3/12/2001 12:07:03 AM
At any rate, everyone seems to be assuming that Jerri will be the first one turned on by the ogakurs. But why? Jerri is so distateful you *want* to have her as your opponent at the end. She really is not a threat to win; ergo, she's not someone you have to dispose of quickly.
643. AytchMan - 3/13/2001 6:53:25 PM
Professor Lowbrow's Question Of The Day:
What's the pre-game analysis on Boot Camp, the latest Fox(?) reality entry starting in a week or two? Good idea? Idiotic? In Survivor's footsteps or Big Brother's?
644. JudithAtHome - 3/13/2001 6:55:54 PM
My husband snorted at the ads....who knows?
I hope it isn't in Big Brothers footsteps or we will all be snoozing.
645. AceofSpades - 3/13/2001 6:57:11 PM
Aytch,
TNT will soon be showing real footage of *real* military war games.
Now, what say we buy a couple of tanks and artillery pieces and Lazer-tag style M-16's and cook us up a War Games reality game show...?
No real weapons, of course.
646. JudithAtHome - 3/13/2001 6:58:43 PM
No real weapons, of course
Oh why not? How long before we start having Snuff Reality?
647. AceofSpades - 3/13/2001 6:59:13 PM
But as to your actual question:
Sure, why wouldn't Boot Camp work in principle? It's a decent idea.
But what separates The Mole from Survivor is the Survivor has a very interesting expulsion mechanism. It's simple, of course, but it's hugely entertaining to watch people scheme and trade votes.
If Boot Camp features a similar mechanism, the show could be entertaining.
648. JudithAtHome - 3/13/2001 7:01:09 PM
I thought Boot Camp would have the DIs expell people for not being god enough to endure the rigors of an actual camp?
649. JudithAtHome - 3/13/2001 7:02:41 PM
Or are you not speaking to me, Ace?
Seriously, isn't this show going to be like a real camp? Surely we won't have people in the contest voting each other off?
Or will they?
650. JudithAtHome - 3/13/2001 7:03:20 PM
not god but good enough...in prior post.
651. AceofSpades - 3/13/2001 7:04:39 PM
JAH,
That's a boring mechanism. If that's what they're doing, it's a mistake.
Better would be this:
If an individual fails, then the team pays -- they must run extra miles, etc.
Thus, the team will have a reason to give laggards a Code Red, or just boot them out.
But the key, I think, is to give the players the power to boot out members. That's what makes these games interesting. It isn't the little games and challenges that keep people watching; it's the expulsion round.
652. AceofSpades - 3/13/2001 7:06:02 PM
Reality TV shows which feature players voting each other out -- like Survivor -- are interesting.
Realtity TV shows which base their expulsion mechanism on something else -- Big Brother, the Mole -- have been boring.
653. JudithAtHome - 3/13/2001 7:08:16 PM
I agree...do you have a link to Boot Camp? If not, I'll see if I can find one.
654. AceofSpades - 3/13/2001 7:09:31 PM
No, I don't.
655. JudithAtHome - 3/13/2001 7:19:08 PM
Well, all I could get was tonights listing of shows....and I have to go for the evening. I'll look further tomorrow if someone else doesn't find something tonight.
656. AytchMan - 3/13/2001 7:22:12 PM
For my money, BB still represents the nadir of the genre. The Mole almost had a good show but our mystification and boredom at most of the process sank it. Apparently, Temptation Island drew pretty good ratings although the appeal there escapes me.
657. AceofSpades - 3/13/2001 7:24:17 PM
Not to say that the voting thing is the only interesting expulsion mechanism... but it's the only one that's really worked so far.
I suppose Boot Camp might feature a series of eliminations at the end. For example, let's say four people are granted immunity for "Rising above the call" earlier in the show.
Then, at the end, you have, say, six people left. First you have a sprint. The people who come in first and second place will not be eliminated.
Next, boxing with those padded sticks. Two combats, each with two of the four remaining people. The two who win are not eliminated.
Finally, you have two dudes left. Now they both have to run the obstacle course. The loser... has to ring out.
Maybe that could work. But all that is, in the end, just a series of athletic challenges featuring average-to-subpar athletes.
We already have that, after all. It's called the WNBA.
658. AceofSpades - 3/13/2001 7:30:16 PM
The Mole had the worst expulsion mechanism imaginable. Not only are the contestants expelled or kept on the basis of a boring sit down quiz. That's bad enough.
But to add insult to injury, the Mole didn't even show you the questions, or the players'
responses.
It was wholly random, from the audience's point of view. They should have just spun a wheel.
659. AytchMan - 3/13/2001 7:40:18 PM
ace 657--
Somehow they're going to have to balance things out gender-wise. In spite of what's shown on most TV shows these days, the average guy is going to bury the average woman in any equal physical competition.
660. Jon Ferguson - 3/13/2001 8:29:49 PM
Ummm, at the risk of stating the obvious, if the Mole had shown the questions and answers, it wouldn't have taken a rocket scientist to figure out who the Mole is, now, would it? I guess you could still run the show if the audience knows who the Mole is from the get-go, but that wasn't the producers' vision for the show and it's hard to imagine watching this show without at least the mild suspense of 'Who is the Mole?'.
What did the Mole get paid, anyway?
Big Brother sucked because none of the women put out or were particularly hot and there were too many old married people. They had a voting mechanism that was just a little tweak away from the Survivor voting mechanism. It wasn't the voting mechanism. Big Brother type shows will get massive ratings as soon as they go uncensored. I wanted to watch that chunky beauty queen take a dump. Big Brother is about voyeurism, which is a near-universal human trait. But when they censor out all the juicy stuff, there's no point.
661. AceofSpades - 3/13/2001 9:13:23 PM
"if the Mole had shown the questions and answers, it wouldn't have taken a rocket scientist to figure out who the Mole is, now, would it? "
Yes, it could have.
1) Pose questions with multiple answers, i.e., name three people who are not the mole, or name a group of three people, one of which must be the mole.
2) Ask some questions about people other than the mole.
3) Weight questions' values differently, and do not tell the audience how much each question is worth.
4) Do not show the answers to critical questions; also, make sure never to show everyone's answers.
With these guidelines in place, it would be just about impossible to determine the identity of the mole based on seeing the answers.
But that's besides the point... the whole quiz-elimination mechanic was lame in the extreme.
662. AceofSpades - 3/14/2001 10:42:19 AM
"MissCleo: Hi Jeff--This is a question I'm sure the whole world wants to know: Why did ya'll choose Colby? Can you tell us about your tribe's discussion?
Jeff Varner: WE knew that we needed to get rid of their strongest competitor, which was, in our opinion, the person who was most likely to win the immunity challenges. We had no idea who on the other tribe had votes. I was focused on voting on who had votes, and the rest of the tribe was focused on voting out the strongest. We didn't know who on the other side had votes. I suspected Keith did, after meeting him. And my challenge became to convince Kucha to switch their votes from Colby to Keith. And slowly…and very subtly...I approached Kucha members to switch their votes, but Keith won immunity. Jerri put on a very good face on the first day. In fact, I actually thought I saw Jerri and Keith hugging each other. Watching the shows, that was pretty weird. So they were camouflaging Jerri. But Keith won immunity, so...there was nothing we could do. We reverted back to the Colby decision. "
Ah. So if Jeff had remained in the challenge and beat Keith, Kucha would be winning the game.
But Jeff pussied out.
As did Alicia and Elisabeth and Rodger.
Nick I give a pass to... he said he was sick and got dizzy on the pole. He guessed he wouldn't win; he was right. Rodger's an old dude, but Christ, old dudes are pretty much as good at standing around as youngh people.
There is something to be said for pure willpower... Keith and Tina had it; very few of the Kuchas did. Perhaps Ogakur deserves to win.
663. AceofSpades - 3/14/2001 10:44:05 AM
664. AceofSpades - 3/14/2001 11:23:38 AM 665. AceofSpades - 3/14/2001 11:29:07 AM 666. AceofSpades - 3/14/2001 11:30:42 AM 667. Indiana Jones - 3/14/2001 11:34:03 AM Ace is right about the voting mechanism being what's exciting. If you remember the board game "Scruples," the most enjoyable part about it was giving the old pitchfork to someone (although they could get you back by guessing correctly that you were going to give them the pitchfork). 668. AceofSpades - 3/14/2001 11:39:31 AM 669. AceofSpades - 3/14/2001 11:41:47 AM Somebody has to watch this opus with me. 670. MsIvoryTower - 3/14/2001 11:51:04 AM Okay, anyone care to guess who will be eliminated this week? 671. AceofSpades - 3/14/2001 11:54:18 AM 672. glendajean - 3/14/2001 11:56:26 AM Good reasoning, MsIT. Of course, Alicia also stands to win any immunity challenge. I agree that Jerrie might get switched for Roger and Elizabeth. Nick is too much of a cypher to figure out if he can be trusted. Roger seems to be what you see is what you get. 673. AceofSpades - 3/14/2001 12:00:15 PM 674. JudithAtHome - 3/14/2001 12:02:46 PM I tried watching the "film"...very boring. This wasn't an Independent film in any sense other than independent of talent. 675. AceofSpades - 3/14/2001 12:02:46 PM 676. AceofSpades - 3/14/2001 12:04:16 PM 677. JudithAtHome - 3/14/2001 12:12:08 PM Jerri is gone tonight. Keith and Colby and Tina will do something to sway Kucha into dumping Jerri because she is disruptive and can turn on them in a NY minute, bringing along her little minion, Amber. The KCT alliance will jump for tonight to rid themselves of Jerri.... 678. MsIvoryTower - 3/14/2001 12:15:47 PM Judith 679. JudithAtHome - 3/14/2001 12:19:04 PM I guess this idiot is letting personal animosity against the bitch color her thnking. 680. MsIvoryTower - 3/14/2001 12:21:34 PM Haha 681. JudithAtHome - 3/14/2001 12:24:08 PM Yeah...if not tonight. ;-) 682. AceofSpades - 3/14/2001 12:33:53 PM 683. AceofSpades - 3/14/2001 12:37:45 PM 684. AytchMan - 3/14/2001 6:41:27 PM The ever-solicitous Professor Lowbrow trusts that all are aware that Survivor is on tonight (Wednesday), not tomorrow night (which would be, we guess, Thursday). 685. JudithAtHome - 3/14/2001 6:51:23 PM And next week is a clip show, not a regular episode with a banishment so enjoy this one tonight; it has to last 2 weeks. 686. AytchMan - 3/14/2001 7:01:19 PM Do you mean stuff that hasn't been seen before or some sort of summary to bring everybody up to date? Or both? 687. AceofSpades - 3/14/2001 8:58:03 PM 688. MsIvoryTower - 3/14/2001 10:07:40 PM Well, tonight had me doubting my own logic up to the end. I think it's pretty clever the way the producers are deliberately keeping any planning discussions by the ex-Ogakur group out of sight. 689. AceofSpades - 3/14/2001 10:59:48 PM 690. MsIvoryTower - 3/14/2001 11:33:37 PM Ace 691. AceofSpades - 3/14/2001 11:42:52 PM 692. AceofSpades - 3/14/2001 11:44:17 PM 693. MsIvoryTower - 3/14/2001 11:47:05 PM Why should R and E trust them? Because Tina and Keith never came out and said they were voting for Jerri, but clearly signalled that she was someone they want to get rid of soon. Tina even said that her time was coming to Elizabeth. 694. MsIvoryTower - 3/14/2001 11:48:08 PM Btw, Jerri has at least 6 total votes against her. She exceeds Colby and Keith in total votes, I think. 695. AceofSpades - 3/14/2001 11:52:57 PM 696. MsIvoryTower - 3/14/2001 11:57:17 PM Colby has no need of R and E, but Keith and Tina seem inclined to ally with them over their own people. If Colby remains with them, which I think he will, he'll go along with it. 697. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 12:01:46 AM 698. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 12:05:28 AM "Colby has no need of R and E, but Keith and Tina seem inclined to ally with them over their own people" 699. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 12:08:09 AM 700. MsIvoryTower - 3/15/2001 12:08:41 AM Ace 701. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 12:10:35 AM No, Keith and Tina were this <*> close to lying to Kucha to get Jerri a lot of strikes, so that, when it gets to the round of Six, Jerri will lose a 3-3 tiebreaker against Colby. 702. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 12:11:32 AM 703. MsIvoryTower - 3/15/2001 12:12:18 AM And after a few weeks of near starvation, the strain of the lifestyle, and sheer boredom, I think "like/dislike" will have a heck of a lot to do with what plays out. 704. MsIvoryTower - 3/15/2001 12:13:43 AM Once they've gotten rid of all the Kuchas. 705. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 12:20:02 AM 706. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 12:21:19 AM 707. Jon Ferguson - 3/15/2001 11:46:31 AM Keith, Tina and Colby are every bit as wily as the ex-Kuchas (shrewder, more deceptive, and better players, imo). Colby knows that he has to convince Jerri that he will side with her and Amber after the 5 remaining Ogakoors run the table. If he doesn't do that, Jerri and Amber will bolt early and KTC go down. 708. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 12:24:45 PM 709. JadeGold1 - 3/15/2001 12:26:20 PM Rigged. 711. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 12:36:09 PM 713. AytchMan - 3/15/2001 12:53:18 PM I'm moving posts, folks. 716. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 12:57:39 PM 717. AytchMan - 3/15/2001 12:59:17 PM 710, 712, 714 moving to the Inferno. More as required. 718. AytchMan - 3/15/2001 1:01:03 PM It's not the disagreement. No snide nicknames. As previously mentioned. 719. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 1:01:35 PM Rigged. 720. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 1:01:53 PM No nicknames. 721. AytchMan - 3/15/2001 1:08:26 PM ace-- 722. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 1:08:51 PM Hmmmmmm... it's odd. 723. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 1:15:41 PM 724. AytchMan - 3/15/2001 1:23:48 PM ace-- 725. AytchMan - 3/15/2001 1:28:22 PM ace-- 726. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 1:29:56 PM Aytch, 727. AytchMan - 3/15/2001 1:37:02 PM You've certainly done some serious analysis on the show (if that's not some sort of oxymoron). 728. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 1:37:08 PM 729. AytchMan - 3/15/2001 1:42:33 PM ace-- 730. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 1:43:43 PM 731. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 1:47:01 PM 732. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 1:53:19 PM 733. AytchMan - 3/15/2001 1:53:34 PM ace-- 734. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 1:56:15 PM Aytch: 735. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 2:00:07 PM 736. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 2:19:31 PM 737. AytchMan - 3/15/2001 2:20:03 PM ace-- 738. Jon Ferguson - 3/15/2001 3:01:24 PM 708. AceofSpades - 3/15/01 5:24:45 PM 739. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 3:09:34 PM 740. Jon Ferguson - 3/15/2001 3:12:19 PM Why would he lie to the cameraman? 741. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 3:22:54 PM 742. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 3:28:05 PM 743. Fielding - 3/15/2001 3:28:13 PM I've never watched the show, but how do we know that what Colby said in the Confessional happened during the week they show it? 744. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 3:30:36 PM "but how do we know that what Colby said in the Confessional happened during the week they show it? " 745. Jon Ferguson - 3/15/2001 3:46:09 PM Do you really see Keith voting for Jerri over Colby to win the million bucks even if Colby backstabbed? No way. Tina? Maybe, but I doubt it. She did vote for that ugly old cop buddy of hers, remember? She's been around the block a couple of times and won't take it personally. Especially when Colby gives his final speech (I played this game to win, I backstabbed you because I knew I couldn't beat you.) Colby gets to the final 2 with Jerri, Colby wins, and he knows it. All he has to do is hold his team together for the next 3 tribal councils and he's an 80% favorite to take it all. Colby's a smart guy. He's got to position himself in a final 3 that A) he's likely to win immunity, since he doesn't have a 'Rudy' (whereas Amber/Jerri and Tina/Keith are tight) and B) he's got a real unpopular buddy to stand on the podium with when the final vote is cast. Let's say he goes to the final 3 with Tina and Keith (as you predict.) Have you noticed who won the last 2 immunity challenges? That would be Keith. And who was the first runner up last week? That would be Tina. So, first he's got to win immunity against the toughest 2 remaining castaways (unless you think that Tina or Keith WANT to bring Colby to the final 2) and then he's got to hope that he's more popular than Keith (in spite of backstabbing Jerri and Amber, Jerri being about the only person who actively dislikes Keith.) Now, it's likely that Colby beats Keith in a final 2, but imo, it's far more likely that Colby beats Jerri. 746. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 4:14:23 PM "This all presupposes that the alliance holds for the next 2 TCs, but I think that as long as Kucha poses any kind of threat (a voting bloc of 2 is still a threat at this point) they'll be voted off." 748. AceofSpades - 3/15/2001 4:39:26 PM Ooops. Wrong thread. I meant this for the Inferno. 749. AytchMan - 3/15/2001 4:47:05 PM 747 moved to Inferno. 750. concerned - 3/16/2001 12:50:54 AM I've never seen this show. Am I missing much of anything? 751. AytchMan - 3/16/2001 1:04:17 AM Depends on your philosophy of life, I suppose. You'll either love it or hate it. 752. AytchMan - 3/16/2001 2:07:22 AM Pool Update: 753. JudithAtHome - 3/16/2001 8:40:59 AM Of the top four percentages, two don't watch the show...of course, because Ace didn't vote in time, his leading percentage doesn't enter the equation. 754. bubbaette - 3/16/2001 9:27:01 AM I'm afraid that I've ruined my husband's good opinion of me by watching Survivor three weeks in a row. 755. JudithAtHome - 3/16/2001 9:52:06 AM Watch out or you'll get hooked. Keoni just rolls his eyes and starts surfing the net when the theme song comes on... 756. bubbaette - 3/16/2001 10:49:20 AM I am hooked and can't believe it. Michael is outraged -- says he used to think that I had taste and good sense. 757. MsIvoryTower - 3/16/2001 10:51:32 AM Bubba 758. bubbaette - 3/16/2001 10:53:25 AM Uh huh. Especially since the show reminds me of the shit I hated in highschool. 759. AceofSpades - 3/16/2001 11:07:11 AM 760. Jon Ferguson - 3/16/2001 11:07:39 AM bubbaette 761. bubbaette - 3/16/2001 2:20:48 PM Deadly snakes? 762. CaroBeth - 3/16/2001 3:00:06 PM My husband and I mocked those who watched the first show and then we ended up watching the last few episodes. S2 has become can't miss viewing by the whole family and we are unashamed. 763. bubbaette - 3/16/2001 3:01:58 PM I call it my guilty pleasure. 764. AceofSpades - 3/16/2001 4:34:19 PM 765. janjon - 3/16/2001 4:44:12 PM I'm not going to say that I wouldn't enjoy it if I had ever watched it, but having not watched it all I can say is that reading this Thread can be hilarious. 766. AceofSpades - 3/16/2001 4:46:14 PM Jan, 767. marshame - 3/16/2001 4:46:18 PM 768. AceofSpades - 3/16/2001 4:48:54 PM S1 had its share of eye-candy. So what if S2 has two more attractive people than S1? 769. marshame - 3/16/2001 4:51:10 PM 770. AceofSpades - 3/16/2001 5:05:16 PM "I mean, think of being up against a neurologist who votes people off in alphabetical order? " 771. AceofSpades - 3/16/2001 5:05:54 PM This is what I figured at the time, and Sean confirmed it at that Survivor-show wrap-up. 772. marshame - 3/16/2001 5:25:40 PM Well of course he would say that, AFTER. I mean, AFTER he got kicked off and people told him what a complete and total idiot he was being. Yeah, I would come up with something fast, too. 773. AceofSpades - 3/16/2001 5:26:31 PM 774. marshame - 3/16/2001 5:27:02 PM And then there was the total slacker, Jervis, who's only skills were "being charming" and beating people at cards. 775. marshame - 3/16/2001 5:28:50 PM All I can say is, if I need brain surgery, I'm sure as heck not going to doctor Sean. 776. Jon Ferguson - 3/21/2001 7:39:19 PM Catch-up episode of Survivor tonight. 777. AytchMan - 3/24/2001 12:54:41 AM Professor Lowbrow's Question Of The Day: 778. Jon Ferguson - 3/24/2001 10:38:37 AM Colby snores (maybe you guys already knew that, but I missed that show.) 779. AytchMan - 3/25/2001 1:28:22 PM jon-- 780. AytchMan - 3/29/2001 3:41:28 AM Professor Lowbrow's Question Of The Day: 781. JudithAtHome - 3/29/2001 10:14:55 AM Looks like sharks versus chum to me....but these girls aren't going down without a fight. 782. JudithAtHome - 3/29/2001 12:16:48 PM Here's the lowdown: 783. JudithAtHome - 3/29/2001 12:18:18 PM (Boot Camp, cont.) 784. JudithAtHome - 3/29/2001 12:21:46 PM The above 2 posts are quotes from the Boot Camp website; sorry about lack of italics or quotation marks. 785. AytchMan - 3/29/2001 9:04:00 PM Thanks, judith. 786. MsIvoryTower - 3/29/2001 9:05:47 PM Huzzah!!!! 787. AytchMan - 3/29/2001 9:10:42 PM Bombs away. 788. LadyChaos - 3/29/2001 9:45:31 PM MsIt, 789. MsIvoryTower - 3/29/2001 10:03:12 PM H-Man 790. Jon Ferguson - 3/29/2001 10:40:42 PM Keith and Tina are in the driver's seat now. 791. AceofSpades - 3/30/2001 12:43:06 AM Here's what I think happened: 792. glendajean - 3/30/2001 10:19:51 AM People in my all office think Colby is screwed now. 793. AceofSpades - 3/30/2001 11:41:03 AM 794. AceofSpades - 3/30/2001 11:41:07 AM 795. JudithAtHome - 3/30/2001 11:58:58 AM I was surprised but my surprise gave way to delight after it sunk in...I just couldn't stand Jerri and I don't want to hear all that after-the-fact crap about editing, hunger, loss of sleep hoopla to explain her bitchiness away, either. For them to edit it all down and portray her that way, she had to have acted that way in the first place. 796. glendajean - 3/30/2001 2:57:34 PM If Jerri was whiner #1, Keith is whiner #2. 797. JudithAtHome - 3/30/2001 3:09:30 PM Ha...Jerri whined; Keith tells it like it is! 798. glendajean - 3/30/2001 3:16:31 PM No, he's a whiner, too. He's made sufferable by her nastiness (and flights of fantasy -- "romantic honeymoon without the sex"?). 799. JudithAtHome - 3/30/2001 3:20:38 PM I saw her on the Early Show and she's delusional. Plus she bragged about being an actress since she was 9 years old (I'd bet earlier!) but didn't mention her porn flick Ace linked to earlier. 800. AytchMan - 3/30/2001 3:22:07 PM Arrividerci, Jerri. The latest Survivor Projections have just arrived from the field office in Mombasa. We're pleased to announce heavy casualties among the poolsters. Judith, Ms Ivory Tower and Uzmakk lead the pack: 801. glendajean - 3/30/2001 3:23:24 PM Then there's Tina who went through Kel's backpack looking for beef jerky that was never found. She and Keith aren't so great. 802. JudithAtHome - 3/30/2001 3:45:19 PM Jerri said she is still 99% sure Kel had beef jerky. What a bitch; just cannot accept she might be wrong, even though she's gone... 803. glendajean - 3/30/2001 3:57:53 PM In an inverse way, I suppose. Her support on the jury in the form of a speech could be the kiss of death for that person. 804. MsIvoryTower - 3/30/2001 5:28:23 PM Judith 805. JudithAtHome - 3/30/2001 5:38:20 PM Have you noticed how thin everyone is getting? They are all raw nerves and hunger.. 806. Jon Ferguson - 3/30/2001 6:20:44 PM Hey, MSIT said something insightful for a change! 807. JudithAtHome - 3/30/2001 6:25:49 PM MsIT is always insightful... 808. Jon Ferguson - 3/30/2001 6:27:15 PM Hey, Judith is boring and predictable for a change! 809. JudithAtHome - 3/30/2001 6:28:28 PM Drop the affectation of the little Gs, Jon...I can handle your scorn. 810. Jon Ferguson - 3/30/2001 6:39:35 PM Oh, c'mon Judith. Truth be told, I've always liked you. Even though you're a constant thorn in my side / pain in the ass. 811. JudithAtHome - 3/30/2001 6:49:44 PM (g) 812. MsIvoryTower - 3/30/2001 6:55:25 PM Judith 813. JudithAtHome - 3/30/2001 6:58:23 PM MsIt: 814. JudithAtHome - 3/30/2001 7:00:05 PM Or vice versa..I may have messed up not picking Tina but my reasoning was that she was not trustworthy...ha! 815. arkymalarky - 3/30/2001 7:09:22 PM Judith and Jon reminded me, that when I teach Lord of the Flies, just for fun I like to speculate with the class what the end results would be if they were the ones stranded on a desert island (in a small school, these are kids who know eachother well). I think there ought to be a Mote Survivor. I wonder who'd be the first to go and who would be the last one standing. 816. arkymalarky - 3/30/2001 7:09:54 PM Remove commas as needed. I need a nap. 817. JudithAtHome - 3/30/2001 7:11:11 PM That sounds like something that might eventually happen, Arky...unintentionally, but..... 818. Jon Ferguson - 3/31/2001 11:12:20 PM Might happen? It's already happened ... twice! 819. arkymalarky - 4/1/2001 12:14:24 AM Are you suggesting you're the first to go and will be the last one standing? 820. AytchMan - 4/2/2001 7:23:49 PM Professor Lowbrow's Question Of The Day: 821. Jon Ferguson - 4/2/2001 9:07:33 PM Least likely to go this week would probably be Tina. Everybody else has at least one strike against them. (The Kuchas because they're Kucha. Colby because he's the biggest threat left. Keith because he's unlikable. Amber because she was Jerri's buddy.) 822. aytchman - 4/3/2001 5:19:48 PM Since this thread only gets busy around Thursday showtime, we can open it up to include other reality shows like Boot Camp. Feel free to post on these as the mood strikes. 823. aytchman - 4/3/2001 5:26:23 PM Incidentally, there's a new show being advertised called Weak Link. Anybody have any poop on it yet? 824. JudithAtHome - 4/3/2001 5:33:59 PM Only that the ads are clever. 825. angel-five - 4/3/2001 9:39:49 PM Well, at least shows like this aren't really a sensation any more. The easily irritated Angelfive much prefers to not hear people going on enthusiastically about reality television and thankfully there's little watercooler talk about the new Survivor show. 826. JudithAtHome - 4/3/2001 11:33:06 PM People love the idea of transparency....it's like driving down the street and peeking in the windows to see what's there. 827. MsIvoryTower - 4/3/2001 11:34:09 PM I call it vulgar voyeurism myself.... 828. AytchMan - 4/3/2001 11:36:19 PM a5-- 829. JudithAtHome - 4/3/2001 11:38:25 PM A lamentable schadenfreude 830. angel-five - 4/3/2001 11:39:12 PM Well, the point of transparency is pretty much that you're one of the people on the street with people peeking in your windows. But still. 831. AytchMan - 4/3/2001 11:39:47 PM Now that I think about it, perhaps a guy who uses schadenfreude shouldn't be hosting this thread. 832. MsIvoryTower - 4/3/2001 11:43:46 PM On the contrary, it makes you uniquely qualified to be our peeping tom leader. 833. AytchMan - 4/3/2001 11:45:19 PM It does continue to amaze me that most people are eager to get on any TV show for any reason and under any circumstances. 834. JudithAtHome - 4/3/2001 11:45:30 PM H-man: 835. JudithAtHome - 4/3/2001 11:47:14 PM A-5: 836. AytchMan - 4/3/2001 11:47:42 PM msit-- 837. AytchMan - 4/3/2001 11:52:32 PM judith-- 838. angel-five - 4/3/2001 11:52:48 PM Aytch: Brin notes two things: that technology to snoop into another's affairs is improving much faster than our ability to thwart that technology, and that as long as human nature remains constant and that some advantage can be gained from the use of such technology people will use it. He then compares two possible outcomes from this process -- one in which the technology, or rather access to the information that the technology makes available, is limited to a controlling power, and one in which people become transparent -- i.e. the cameras are everywhere but our private areas and anyone can view the information. 839. angel-five - 4/3/2001 11:55:18 PM JAH: It's a status thing to not have to appear like you're worried someone will see and steal your stuff. But the big thing I'd guess is that some rich people like to show off their possessions, and poor people tend to live in higher crime areas and don't want to advertise their loot. 840. AytchMan - 4/4/2001 12:26:21 AM a5-- 841. JudithAtHome - 4/4/2001 8:59:25 AM whenever I see something like that on television I get the nagging feeling that someone out there is insulting my intelligence 842. arkymalarky - 4/4/2001 9:27:38 PM "My neighbors think I'm crazy because I don't have blinds on my windows and you can see inside. I happen to like the light but they would rather think it's nuts..." 843. aytchman - 4/4/2001 11:13:11 PM Professor You-Know-Who Again: 844. JudithAtHome - 4/4/2001 11:18:20 PM My tape of the show tonight...I taped the wrong channel. 845. angel-five - 4/4/2001 11:20:19 PM Aytch: It needs a gong. Specifically, it needs someone to ring the gong. Speaking of taping, has anyone here experimented with Tivo? 846. angel-five - 4/4/2001 11:20:38 PM Or any other similar system. 847. JudithAtHome - 4/4/2001 11:22:03 PM Glendajean mentioned Tivo the other day.... 848. MsIvoryTower - 4/5/2001 12:13:48 AM MISTER peeping tom 849. JudithAtHome - 4/5/2001 9:29:54 AM I say Amber or Nick. 850. MsIvoryTower - 4/5/2001 10:35:54 AM I think Amber goes after one more of the ex-Kucha tribe, but I wouldn't be surprised if they do kick her off if Nick becomes unavailable. 851. glendajean - 4/5/2001 2:48:53 PM I have TIVO on one satellite receiver and PERSONAL on the other. My TIVO has 35 hours of recording on it, and PERSONAL has 5 hours. 852. glendajean - 4/5/2001 2:50:14 PM I was thinking that ole Roger might be vulnerable this time around. Of course, I never dreamed Rudy would make it to the final 3 on the first season, and he seems to be the Rudy character. 853. aytchman - 4/5/2001 4:46:42 PM From watching both Boot Camp and Survivor, I've noticed a new strategy being emphasized: weakness. In the early going, look like a non-threat. Other players will concentrate on knocking out the real threats, giving one time to develop allies. 854. MsIvoryTower - 4/5/2001 10:02:33 PM Well, my predictions remain on target, but I'm afraid that blows my score for the final four. 855. MsIvoryTower - 4/5/2001 10:08:04 PM It also appears that these last few weeks are going to be much harder on the participants than those in the first Survivor. Everyone certainly looked positively skeletal tonight, even the men. 856. JudithAtHome - 4/5/2001 10:32:40 PM I wonder why they don't eat the turtles.... 857. MsIvoryTower - 4/6/2001 9:02:08 AM Heard Jerri interviewed on my morning radio program. 858. bubbaette - 4/6/2001 10:01:58 AM I told Mike that if these folks wanted to be true survivors, they should have attacked that MC guy, taken his rice, and kept their tarps. I don't know why they didn't eat the turtles either. 859. Laura C - 4/6/2001 10:08:07 AM Yeah, seems like they'd at least try one. 860. JudithAtHome - 4/6/2001 10:17:07 AM You'd think Keith would have a working knowledge of turtle soup... 861. MsIvoryTower - 4/6/2001 10:19:47 AM Well, we don't know what foods were off limits to them, ie. as in endangered or protected species in Australia. I'd imagine that's why they weren't eating the turtles, but I don't know about the kangaroos (nor do I know if they're edible). 862. bubbaette - 4/6/2001 10:21:22 AM Laura 863. MsIvoryTower - 4/6/2001 10:29:42 AM I thought the trade was interesting. The MC asked for something he knew was replaceable, and it kept everyone focused on the point of the game. 864. bubbaette - 4/6/2001 10:32:17 AM True, but that Tina is begining to look like an Auschwitz inmate. 865. JudithAtHome - 4/6/2001 10:34:07 AM No way...Keith is here to stay. 866. bubbaette - 4/6/2001 10:39:27 AM I figured he'd be vulnerable since he's had so many votes against him already. But then it could be roger because he's an old fart. 867. Laura C - 4/6/2001 10:40:40 AM What about Elisabeth? Coddled and protected because she's too weak to be a contender, or booted off because she's not pulling her own weight and is so darn cute she's an endgame threat? 868. bubbaette - 4/6/2001 10:42:39 AM I'd wondered about that too -- she is cute as a bug and she has clear alliances with tina and amber. 869. MsIvoryTower - 4/6/2001 10:53:59 AM Elizabeth will be in the final four. 870. glendajean - 4/6/2001 12:30:38 PM Poor Colby. They took away his Texas flag. 871. JudithAtHome - 4/6/2001 12:43:17 PM He was smart to take the energy bar, too. 872. Laura C - 4/6/2001 1:59:28 PM Colby's generosity may have gotten him in a bit of trouble. 873. glendajean - 4/6/2001 2:17:56 PM Hmm...I wondered about that when he brought them back, but assumed it must be ok if the producers let him do it. 874. glendajean - 4/6/2001 2:18:36 PM Judith -- yes, he was very smart to pick the energy bar. Of course, he had just had a big meal a day or so before. 875. aytchman - 4/6/2001 3:31:34 PM Sayonara, Nick. The latest Survivor Projections are in -- better never than late. We are again pleased to report heavy casualties among the poolsters. Judith begins to pull away, trailed by Ms. Ivory Tower and The Gang Of Four (stephanie, uzmakk, fielding and laura). In the Discount Division, Ace is simultaneously running first and last. Somehow, we're not surprised. 876. aytchman - 4/6/2001 3:41:30 PM I think it's clear (and justifiable) that the producers stepped in with food to keep the players from starving to death. At least they handled it well, exacting a substantial price. 877. AytchMan - 4/7/2001 5:03:35 PM Question Of The Day: 878. JudithAtHome - 4/7/2001 5:40:32 PM For me, it is...though I loved Richard and Rudy, I wasn't that crazy about the others. Sue was good for a laugh but there really wasn't anyone in the rest of the cast I liked much at all. I know everyone loved Colleen but she was just a bit of fluff to me. 879. AytchMan - 4/7/2001 5:49:24 PM Except for Jerri, I think the current group is much more likeable. I'm sure they're strategizing every bit as hard as the first group but they just come across better. They're also having a rougher time of it. 880. MsIvoryTower - 4/7/2001 7:38:41 PM I definitely like this second crew better than the first. I positively loathed Richard and almost didn't watch Survivor II because of my disgust at his win. 881. JudithAtHome - 4/10/2001 5:17:02 PM Is anyone going to watch Boot Camp tonight to see if the big guy buys the ranch? 882. glendajean - 4/10/2001 5:23:28 PM I refuse to watch any more reality shows in 2001. Although I'll probably watch at least part of Real World when it returns. 883. JudithAtHome - 4/10/2001 5:25:02 PM That one doesn't count as reality. It's more "realty". 884. AceofSpades - 4/10/2001 9:20:57 PM 885. JudithAtHome - 4/12/2001 3:27:06 PM Amber is toast tonight... 886. AceofSpades - 4/12/2001 3:31:05 PM 887. AceofSpades - 4/12/2001 3:31:32 PM berth 888. Laura C - 4/12/2001 3:33:16 PM Ace, you are right about how Amber should play it, but I'm just not convinced she's that smart. 889. AceofSpades - 4/12/2001 3:37:29 PM 890. rubberducky - 4/12/2001 3:39:01 PM offhand? 891. JudithAtHome - 4/12/2001 3:39:17 PM There is no way she is smart enough to do that...we're not talking Tina here...Amber is only this far along because of Jerri and after tonight, she's gone. 892. AceofSpades - 4/12/2001 3:40:22 PM "There is no way she is smart enough to do that..." 893. JudithAtHome - 4/12/2001 3:41:13 PM Ace: 894. AceofSpades - 4/12/2001 3:42:36 PM 895. AceofSpades - 4/12/2001 3:45:12 PM 896. Indiana Jones - 4/12/2001 3:49:19 PM I don't watch Survivor enough to play this thread's prediction game, but I'm ready to make a call as to the final winner: Tina Wesson. 897. AceofSpades - 4/12/2001 3:49:26 PM 898. JudithAtHome - 4/12/2001 3:51:20 PM I don't care what "seems" to be the best strategy...Amber is going tonight. 899. AceofSpades - 4/12/2001 3:54:15 PM 900. AceofSpades - 4/12/2001 3:57:05 PM 901. AceofSpades - 4/12/2001 4:09:07 PM 902. JudithAtHome - 4/12/2001 4:17:27 PM You could've put the period after clueless and been accurate, too. 903. MsIvoryTower - 4/12/2001 7:17:09 PM Heard an interview with Nick on my morning radio station today. This guy is a wet noodle, even after getting a shower and food in his belly. 904. MsIvoryTower - 4/12/2001 7:17:48 PM I'm betting on Amber being the one to go tonight.... 905. AceofSpades - 4/12/2001 8:19:00 PM 906. vonKreedon - 4/12/2001 8:27:40 PM 907. iiibbb - 4/12/2001 9:19:36 PM my survivor sucks score is 2746 using the strategy of not watching the show. 908. JudithAtHome - 4/12/2001 9:19:52 PM Well, Ace....what say you now? 909. AceofSpades - 4/12/2001 9:35:14 PM 910. AceofSpades - 4/12/2001 9:36:10 PM 911. MsIvoryTower - 4/12/2001 10:06:54 PM Here's the big surprise of the night: Colby was odd man out of the T-K-C alliance. Tina and Keith voted with Elizabeth and Rodger, Colby and Amber struck to the original game plan. 912. MsIvoryTower - 4/12/2001 10:07:44 PM 4th place that is.... 913. AytchMan - 4/12/2001 11:24:50 PM Amber has left the building. 914. AytchMan - 4/13/2001 12:01:27 AM Question Of The Day: 915. JudithAtHome - 4/13/2001 9:07:14 AM I think it's fine to have to endure a lot for a million dollars...and that flood wasn't "staged" by the producers. These people are earning that money. 916. MsIvoryTower - 4/13/2001 9:12:49 AM Judith 917. rubberducky - 4/13/2001 9:14:05 AM what does everyone think about the 'new' way the winner will be announced this time around as opposed to the first Survivor? 918. MsIvoryTower - 4/13/2001 9:15:14 AM Duck 919. rubberducky - 4/13/2001 9:23:04 AM well - CBS has announced that the final winner is still unknown. 920. JudithAtHome - 4/13/2001 9:28:43 AM I'm not so sure that's true...I mean, it might be a rumor because there is also an announcement by the producers that after the jury voted, the actual winners name was put in a lock box and won't be announced until the final show. So, what to believe? I don't think the audience voting is fair, unless they had announced it when the show first started. 921. JudithAtHome - 4/13/2001 9:30:35 AM Sorry, I misread your post, Ducks. Last sentence of my post above is stupidity on my part. 922. bubbaette - 4/13/2001 9:33:39 AM I was impressed by Tina this week. I hope she gets it. 923. JudithAtHome - 4/13/2001 9:47:13 AM Tina rocked last night, fording the river to provide food for the tribe! Whereas my man Keith refused to give in to sensible advice and allow her do it... 924. bubbaette - 4/13/2001 9:49:59 AM Judith 925. MsIvoryTower - 4/13/2001 10:35:49 AM Bubba, Judith 926. JudithAtHome - 4/13/2001 10:43:11 AM I don't trust the ads...so I think Colby will be next. But if Colby gets immunity, sadly it will be Keith...which means I no longer can win the bragging rights to Great Poohbah of Trash TV... 927. JudithAtHome - 4/13/2001 10:45:38 AM Amber just said on Regis that they have already voted. 928. MsIvoryTower - 4/13/2001 11:08:35 AM Judith 929. rubberducky - 4/13/2001 11:10:31 AM let us hope so! 930. JudithAtHome - 4/13/2001 11:21:39 AM I love Colbys face but his body seems a little deformed to me...but of course, I like broad shoulders on a man. 931. bubbaette - 4/13/2001 12:04:08 PM From everything I've seen of Colby, he's a genuinely decent guy. I mistrust the "next week's scenes" stuff from the producers. My guess is that Roger is the next to go. I think he's been flying below the radar so far -- neither a particular asset or detraction to the group -- but as it becomes more difficult for the remaining members to boot each other, I think that Roger is enough of a cipher that he's gone. 932. JudithAtHome - 4/19/2001 2:29:23 PM Who gets it tonight? (And I don't mean the host Jeff and Jerri, who are said to be having a fling...) 933. bubbaette - 4/19/2001 2:34:12 PM EEEEEWWWW. Either one is enough to make my skin crawl but the two of them together making the beast with two backs is repellant. 934. JudithAtHome - 4/19/2001 2:36:49 PM Yes, I think Roger, too....however, just to be perverse, if Colby doesn't get immunity, I think he might be at real risk. 935. glendajean - 4/19/2001 3:06:07 PM Colby looks fine. He has a Matthew McCaughnahey (sp?) look about him, with more intelligence. 936. MsIvoryTower - 4/20/2001 12:53:10 AM Aw Shucks 937. PsychProf - 4/20/2001 7:45:06 AM No brainer...Colby wants to wind up with only Keith left...it's his only chance to win. Amber and Tina have jury appeal. Keith has no chance to win. 938. PsychProf - 4/20/2001 7:47:49 AM Oops, not Amber...the other one of the gang of 4 now left. 939. bubbaette - 4/20/2001 8:01:40 AM I was sorry to see Roger get booted over Keith, as he's certainly the more likeable of the two. I wonder to what extent Roger "asked" to go by asking to be booted before Lizbef. 940. bubbaette - 4/20/2001 8:04:04 AM I think that Colby and Tina will be the final two with Tina to win. I like Lizbiff, but she's a weak tit and I think coasting. 941. JudithAtHome - 4/20/2001 8:40:55 AM Since I so badly misjudged Tina, my final four is screwed by Rogers leaving...but I've grown to like Tina so I'm okay with that. Except for her unfortunate choices in home decor, as she was explaining it to Elisabeth last night, she's a smart lady. Colby better pray he wins immunity next time...I think Keith is safe because everyone wants to end up going against Keith. Heh...be careful what you wish for! 942. glendajean - 4/20/2001 10:32:15 AM They all look like they have mentally gone over the edge. 943. JudithAtHome - 4/20/2001 2:02:41 PM No. way. 944. glendajean - 4/20/2001 3:39:42 PM Yes. Way! 945. glendajean - 4/20/2001 3:41:30 PM The only way Colby can win over the jury is if he and Keith are in the final two and he doesn't piss Tina off so much that she does a Susan "you're a rat" speech. 946. AceofSpades - 4/20/2001 5:18:23 PM 947. Laura C - 4/20/2001 5:20:22 PM I missed the show. What were the challenges? 948. AceofSpades - 4/20/2001 5:26:44 PM 949. AceofSpades - 4/20/2001 5:29:31 PM 950. glendajean - 4/20/2001 5:31:11 PM You left out the part where Keith and his girlfriend exchange greetings. One is peas and the other is carrots. He proposed marriage and she accepted. Yuck. 951. AceofSpades - 4/20/2001 5:33:34 PM 952. glendajean - 4/20/2001 5:34:32 PM Did anybody notice that Tina's husband looks 20 years younger than her? Is this an age difference or has she just been out in the sun a long time? 953. janjon - 4/20/2001 5:35:05 PM gee, if someone else brought lima beans they could have both succotash and a menage a trois. 954. AceofSpades - 4/20/2001 5:35:44 PM 955. AceofSpades - 4/20/2001 5:36:34 PM 956. JudithAtHome - 4/20/2001 5:37:44 PM Ace, they had fire after last weeks tribal council...Jeff told them they would have fire that night. The fire was killed by the rain, not Keiths lack of dry matches and they said it was next to impossible to start fire with wet wood, THEN they found the "burning log". 957. AceofSpades - 4/20/2001 5:40:18 PM 958. AceofSpades - 4/20/2001 5:41:28 PM Keith has a hot girlfriend, 15 years his junior. 959. glendajean - 4/20/2001 5:43:21 PM The burning log story was pretty funny. I would have believed it if they said that lightening had struck the night before. A forest fire in the middle of the monsoons would have been trickier. 960. JudithAtHome - 4/20/2001 5:47:43 PM Colby may have more than a blonde mom who looks like a honky tonk angel and a great smile in common with Matthew McConnagahay (or however you spell it). 961. AceofSpades - 4/20/2001 5:48:55 PM 962. JudithAtHome - 4/20/2001 5:50:15 PM Then again, looks aren't everything...the lad is love, that's a given...with himself. 963. JudithAtHome - 4/20/2001 5:51:10 PM I just hate it that now a serious discussion is going on, I have to leave or greet my guests in a sarong. 964. AceofSpades - 4/20/2001 5:51:37 PM 965. AceofSpades - 4/20/2001 5:54:23 PM 966. JudithAtHome - 4/20/2001 6:00:59 PM She WAS beautiful, wasn't she? 967. AceofSpades - 4/20/2001 6:01:55 PM 968. JudithAtHome - 4/20/2001 6:03:26 PM "It's Sweet Pea now..." 969. glendajean - 4/20/2001 6:05:56 PM Colby seems reasonably sensitive to his fellow players. But I really thought he was going to slap Keith. 970. AceofSpades - 4/20/2001 6:07:23 PM 971. AceofSpades - 4/20/2001 6:10:04 PM 972. AceofSpades - 4/20/2001 6:13:26 PM 973. glendajean - 4/20/2001 6:15:25 PM If Elizabeth wins the next immunity challenge, she will vote against Keith. She hates him. 974. glendajean - 4/20/2001 6:15:52 PM Lord that was a screwed up post. Who would the others vote against in that situation. 975. AceofSpades - 4/20/2001 6:18:17 PM "If Elizabeth wins the next immunity challenge, she will vote against Keith. She hates him." 976. AceofSpades - 4/20/2001 6:18:36 PM 977. AceofSpades - 4/20/2001 6:20:28 PM 978. AceofSpades - 4/20/2001 6:23:24 PM 979. JudithAtHome - 4/20/2001 6:26:00 PM Keith and Tina voted together the last 2 or 3 times...I think they are stronger as a team than Colby and Tina. 980. JudithAtHome - 4/20/2001 6:26:42 PM Amber was as stupid as I told you she was, Ace. 981. AceofSpades - 4/20/2001 6:29:41 PM 982. AceofSpades - 4/20/2001 6:33:30 PM 983. JudithAtHome - 4/21/2001 9:25:40 AM Maybe they are all in Platos Cave by now... 984. AytchMan - 4/23/2001 3:28:36 PM Busted. Roger is gone and he has taken the hopes and dreams of legions of poolsters with him. 985. JudithAtHome - 4/23/2001 3:32:55 PM I've known for ages that uzmakk can not win and I think I pointed it out when he first listed his choices. 986. AytchMan - 4/23/2001 3:37:51 PM It was indeed a novel approach taken by Uz. He could have won under some circumstances. 987. Fielding - 4/23/2001 9:48:12 PM It would be very sad for me to win this without ever having seen the show. 988. JudithAtHome - 4/23/2001 11:28:44 PM Yes, indeed....it would. 989. glendajean - 4/24/2001 10:43:26 AM The aesthetics of Survivor: lots of artfully arranged fire torches; swirling shots of people looking into the fire, with its reflection coloring their faces; kangaroos hopping, alligators yawning. 990. bubbaette - 4/24/2001 10:55:11 AM Don't forget the music -- or "that goofy-assed obnoxious fake primative music" as DH calls it. 991. glendajean - 4/24/2001 10:58:35 AM Ah-yah, ah, ah, ah-yah, ah... 992. JudithAtHome - 4/25/2001 4:03:27 PM This week, if Colby doesn't get immumity, he's gone. If Colby gets immunity, Elizabeth is gone...everyone wants to go against Keith in the final two. Their mistake... 993. AceofSpades - 4/25/2001 4:05:12 PM 994. JudithAtHome - 4/25/2001 4:08:59 PM Ace, I'm only posting my choices for this week; I don't really give it as much thought as a rocket scientist might. 995. AceofSpades - 4/25/2001 4:10:42 PM Oh 996. AceofSpades - 4/25/2001 4:10:55 PM 997. AceofSpades - 4/25/2001 4:11:06 PM you know 998. AceofSpades - 4/25/2001 4:11:20 PM now 999. AceofSpades - 4/25/2001 4:11:30 PM now 1000. AceofSpades - 4/25/2001 4:11:39 PM now 1001. glendajean - 4/25/2001 4:12:34 PM There is an echo in this thread. 1002. JudithAtHome - 4/25/2001 4:13:43 PM Five tries...way to go! 1003. AceofSpades - 4/25/2001 4:14:44 PM 1004. glendajean - 4/25/2001 4:15:22 PM I am hoping that Colby will be in the final two. God, for someone who seems so funny, you have a lousy sense of humor...I WAS JOKING WITH YOU. 1006. glendajean - 4/26/2001 12:29:51 PM I haven't paid too much attention to the looming writers strike in Hollywood, but I read the other day that we should expect a flood of reality and Weakest Link programs on television if the strike is prolonged. 1007. OhioSTOPAS - 4/26/2001 12:33:06 PM It's not all bad - I'm in favor of more opportunities for failed game show contestants to get another chance to make some money. 1008. OhioSTOPAS - 4/26/2001 12:35:58 PM Furthermore, given the run of bad episodes of the shows I usually watch (last night's "West Wing", Monday's "Boston Public", last week's "Friends"), who cares if the writers strike? 1009. glendajean - 4/26/2001 12:36:12 PM No way. You were the weakest link! 1010. OhioSTOPAS - 4/26/2001 12:45:26 PM Only because I had never heard of Eudora Fucking Welty. 1011. glendajean - 4/26/2001 12:51:25 PM That's what stumped you? I could have gotten that. I lose it on things like measuring cups and tablespoons and any reference to pop music in the last 15 years. 1012. JudithAtHome - 4/26/2001 1:05:24 PM Here's one for you, GJ...how old is someone born in 1943 compared to someone born in the (cough, cough)'50s. 1013. glendajean - 4/26/2001 1:06:29 PM I'm the weakest link. I can't add or subtract. It's a terrible thing to admit, but it is true. 1014. JudithAtHome - 4/26/2001 1:11:07 PM Here's a hint: I was probably graduating grade school when you were born. 1015. glendajean - 4/26/2001 1:15:19 PM No. You were probably starting junior high when I was born. 1016. glendajean - 4/26/2001 1:16:18 PM Actually, you probably had one more year of grade school, now that I think about it. 1017. JudithAtHome - 4/26/2001 10:18:33 PM So, who was surprised by this? 1018. MsIvoryTower - 4/26/2001 11:00:53 PM Me, but I didn't get to watch the episode so I can't say much about it. 1019. JudithAtHome - 4/27/2001 10:31:14 AM Tinas next. 1020. bubbaette - 4/27/2001 10:39:05 AM These past two weeks they've really been trying to pull the ol heartstrings. Since when do survivors get care packages from home or visits from Mom? 1021. PsychProf - 4/27/2001 10:46:49 AM Missie....both Tina and Colby want to be paired with Keith in the final round, figuring the jury will dislike Keith the most, ensuring their victory. The only wild card here is how pissed the jury will be at the obvious manipulation, and whether such anger will trump votng for Colby/Tina. 1022. Laura C - 4/27/2001 10:47:08 AM Why, Judith? It makes sense for Colby to vote for Tina, but why wouldn't Keith vote for Colby? 1023. PsychProf - 4/27/2001 10:51:57 AM At this point the game is the jury...and Keith vs Tina seems a no-brainer, so why should he try to vote Colby off? 1024. JudithAtHome - 4/27/2001 10:58:55 AM Both Keith and Colby KNOW Tina would win against either of them in the final two. 1025. glendajean - 4/27/2001 11:06:11 AM Colby knows that Tina is smart enough to understand that she wants the detested Keith in the final round. Tina's problem is that she or Keith will have to win an immunity challenge to make it to the final round. Colby has the same problem but he also has a track record of making it happen. I wonder if his continued winning is pschying them out in the competitions. 1026. glendajean - 4/27/2001 11:07:55 AM I think Colby could beat Tina in the final round. There has to be some respect for his ability to play the game so well. And unlike Richard Hatch, he has been quite friendly in doing it. 1027. JudithAtHome - 4/27/2001 11:14:48 AM I think eventually, Colbys winning every challenge involving food has to have irritated more than his winning immunity. I think the chances of Colby winning over Tina are slim due to the jury. For one thing, Jerri probably hates his guts and has been working her magic on Alicia and Amber and Nick. She won't care who wins so long as it's not Colby...because she knows he screwed her. And not in the way she had expected. 1028. bubbaette - 4/27/2001 11:47:11 AM I don't know that Jerri is going to have much influence with the rest if the jury -- I don't think many of them (with the possible exception of Amber) respect her. I especially don't see Alicia or Nick aligning with her. 1029. glendajean - 4/27/2001 2:29:07 PM Bubbaette -- I agree. And Jerri should be just as hateful of Tina and Keith. They are probably the reason she got the boot earlier than Roger or Elizabeth. 1030. JudithAtHome - 4/27/2001 2:33:14 PM But the reason Jerri was voted off was her own team and she knows it...don't you remember how she said "You got me" to them as she left? She knows from Amber by now that Colby was playing them both... 1031. AytchMan - 4/28/2001 12:17:08 AM Next-To-Last Survivor Pool Update (You Should Live So Long): 1032. bubbaette - 5/2/2001 12:13:34 PM 1033. glendajean - 5/2/2001 12:16:00 PM I hope that the producers figured out it's not exactly fair to base this on physical ability when one has been eating better than the other two. 1034. bubbaette - 5/2/2001 12:21:05 PM I'd prefer Tina, though I like Colby too. I guess we won't see any venomous speeches this time around during the jury deliberations. 1035. glendajean - 5/2/2001 12:30:20 PM Oh, I'm sure actress/waitress Jerri has a a couple of lines to impart. 1036. JudithAtHome - 5/2/2001 12:43:18 PM Yes, but she doesn't get to speak...only the finalists do, right? 1037. glendajean - 5/2/2001 12:54:16 PM Susan wasn't a finalist and she got to give a speech. 1038. bubbaette - 5/2/2001 1:35:41 PM There may also be some psychology of investment at work. Tina gave one of the immunity challenges to Keith so he wouldn't be booted, so I could see the two of them sticking together, assuming that Colby doesn't get the immunity. 1039. JudithAtHome - 5/2/2001 2:39:52 PM I know Susan gave a speech but who else did from the jury? Maybe they had a deal where anyone who wanted to could speak...I don't remember. 1040. AceofSpades - 5/2/2001 2:44:40 PM JAH, 1041. JudithAtHome - 5/2/2001 2:58:19 PM Look, I just came back from lunch to find Rosetta attacking me and haven't really given it a coherent thought...I agree with you, it would be stupid to limit speech from anyone (except Amber, who's to dumb to speak) but I honestly don't recall anything except Sue's speech and Richards face when he won from that last show. 1042. AceofSpades - 5/2/2001 4:06:26 PM I honestly don't recall anything except Sue's speech 1043. AceofSpades - 5/2/2001 4:08:08 PM Of course, there will never be a speech like that again. 1044. AytchMan - 5/3/2001 1:23:54 PM Has anybody heard any buzz about Survivor 3? Are they already filming? 1045. JudithAtHome - 5/3/2001 1:50:13 PM Not yet...all I've heard is that it will start in the Fall and will be somewhere in Africa. 1046. MsIvoryTower - 5/3/2001 5:52:29 PM Hey, I'm done with a final and I'm planning on vegging out in front of the TV tonight to catch the final Survivor episode. whoooah! 1047. JudithAtHome - 5/3/2001 5:57:11 PM Gad...it's on for 3 hours tonight...are you sure you heard right about next week? 1048. Deep Thoughts - 5/3/2001 6:04:15 PM Radio talker Rush Limbaugh is the solo guest on CNN's Larry King show tonight. 1049. JudithAtHome - 5/3/2001 6:06:56 PM HA! Watch him tank...he's not only going against the Survivor Finale but there's proabably a great sale on Survivor T-shirts on Home Shopping Network, Larrys big audience base and Rushs, too. 1050. glendajean - 5/3/2001 6:08:41 PM I have choir rehearsal tonight so I'm taping it. 1051. Deep Thoughts - 5/3/2001 6:11:40 PM Clearly you know nothing about counterprogramming, JudithAtHome. 1052. JudithAtHome - 5/3/2001 6:14:21 PM Clearly, neither do you and neither does CNN... 1053. Deep Thoughts - 5/3/2001 6:16:51 PM I have a feeling that Survivor II won't get the same numbers as one. 1054. JudithAtHome - 5/3/2001 6:18:56 PM I think it will get credible numbers, much higher than Larry King could dream of even if he had Andrea Thompson nude. 1055. Deep Thoughts - 5/3/2001 6:26:16 PM Credible is not good enough. It has to get better ratings than number one. 1056. JudithAtHome - 5/3/2001 6:29:20 PM It's going to be number one, believe me. 1057. MsIvoryTower - 5/3/2001 10:01:59 PM Oh 1058. JudithAtHome - 5/3/2001 10:05:28 PM Too cool, MsIt! 1059. MsIvoryTower - 5/3/2001 10:15:10 PM Way cool, Judith! 1060. Indiana Jones - 5/3/2001 10:17:35 PM Well, considering I never watched the show before tonight, I think picking the winner with six contestants left ought to be worth something, AytchMan. 1061. AytchMan - 5/4/2001 2:10:54 AM indy-- 1062. AytchMan - 5/4/2001 2:24:59 AM I'm stunned. 1063. bubbaette - 5/4/2001 7:17:51 AM Tina Rocks! 1064. PsychProf - 5/4/2001 7:38:43 AM Colby blew it...Tina over Keith. I guess he did not want to win. 1065. JudithAtHome - 5/4/2001 8:13:30 AM I think Colby thought he had it locked; he was very stupid. He let his animosity toward Keith sway him into a fatal mistake...also, he may have thought he was "giving" Tina the hundred grand. For all his schmoozing, he certainly didn't understand women the way he thought he did. 1066. Uzmakk - 5/4/2001 8:18:52 AM I watched Rush Limbaugh and James and the Giant Peach. I don't think I won the pool. 1067. JudithAtHome - 5/4/2001 8:21:13 AM No, Uz, but you made a clever bid to do so.... 1068. Indiana Jones - 5/4/2001 8:29:09 AM Aytch: Post 896, which was with six folks left (Amber, Rodger, Elizabeth, Keith, Colby, and Tina). 1069. Francis Urquhart - 5/4/2001 8:33:58 AM Jeri had it right. Tina won. It was not given to her. She managed to get so close to Colby, to weedle him with flowers, to hug him, to schmooze, to fawn over hs mommy, that when the time came to either choose $900,000 or $100,000, she actually made that oaf choose $100,000. 1070. Francis Urquhart - 5/4/2001 8:34:42 AM Juditha 1071. Indiana Jones - 5/4/2001 8:42:18 AM For all his schmoozing, he certainly didn't understand women the way he thought he did. 1072. RosettaStone - 5/4/2001 8:42:29 AM Let the badmouthing begin. All the radio shows this morning say it was a bore. 1073. JudithAtHome - 5/4/2001 8:45:33 AM Look, don't keep your Deep Thoughts to yourself, Stone... "goat" all you want. 1074. MsIvoryTower - 5/4/2001 9:00:24 AM You guys 1075. Indiana Jones - 5/4/2001 9:04:17 AM Ms. IT: Do you think Colby's reaction when Tina won was sincere? 1076. MsIvoryTower - 5/4/2001 9:05:29 AM IJ 1077. JudithAtHome - 5/4/2001 9:12:23 AM I'm sorry but my reaction is the same as what I posted above...Colby can't have it both ways, no matter his oh shucks attitude. From the beginning, he claimed the money was the only reason he was there...he played it that way for 41 days. 1078. PsychProf - 5/4/2001 9:12:49 AM Missie...the game is about money. Period. I do not think we are able to make guess about personality characteristics(eg "sincere"), based upon the limited exposure we have with the particpants. IMHO, Colby's choice of Tina over Keith was just plain stupid. He left the door open for negative votes in a way that the choice of Keith would not have. 1079. bubbaette - 5/4/2001 9:13:09 AM I think his reaction was sincere as well. Both of the finalists struck me as decent people and it certainly made for a more interesting final game to go against Tina rather than Keith. I can see the producers putting off the final votes for some months for a match-up btwn Colby and Keith. I wonder if Tina would have done the same had she won immunity. I get the impression that she would have but maybe I'm a sap. 1080. JudithAtHome - 5/4/2001 9:13:33 AM ..up to and EXcluding.... 1081. bubbaette - 5/4/2001 9:14:45 AM But of course, in the final analysis, Colby gave away that $900,000. 1082. PsychProf - 5/4/2001 9:15:48 AM Judith...you are not cynical...rather...you are correctly describing what happeded w/o recourse to ESP. 1083. JudithAtHome - 5/4/2001 9:16:29 AM Tina would've picked Keith in a New York minute...and with that Tenneessee twang, looked Colbster in the eye and said, "It's not PERSonal...it's STRATegy, Colbs." 1084. JudithAtHome - 5/4/2001 9:18:00 AM Thanks, PP...not even parrot power? :-) 1085. bubbaette - 5/4/2001 9:18:28 AM Didn't they say that Colby and Tina had an agreement going into the final immunity challenge to pick each other should one or the other win immunity? Though it's not as though the game doesn't entail strategic lies, I think that there's a measure of honor in sticking to the end with an alliance. 1086. MsIvoryTower - 5/4/2001 9:20:23 AM PP's 1087. PsychProf - 5/4/2001 9:20:44 AM It is interesting that we want to ascribe personality characteristics to these game contestants...Tina surely wanted the money...as she should...why would she pick Colby to compete against. 1088. MsIvoryTower - 5/4/2001 9:21:25 AM 1089. bubbaette - 5/4/2001 9:21:54 AM toys 1090. bubbaette - 5/4/2001 9:23:07 AM I think it's interesting that so many would assume that what you see ISN'T what you get. 1091. JudithAtHome - 5/4/2001 9:23:34 AM The guy is a dude from Texas 1092. MsIvoryTower - 5/4/2001 9:23:41 AM PP 1093. PsychProf - 5/4/2001 9:24:23 AM Missie...the show is about greed...a parsimonious explanation, thus, is that the contestants play the game in such a manner. Certainly Tina said she did...Romantics don't(may not actually) play this game on TV or in life... 1094. MsIvoryTower - 5/4/2001 9:25:12 AM True Judith 1095. Francis Urquhart - 5/4/2001 9:25:50 AM Colby got bamboozled. He got beat, and beat bad. And his "Yahoos" for Tina were pre-planned and faux, because I'm sure that during the wait, he checked for his wallet, keys and wristband, and all were gone. 1096. Francis Urquhart - 5/4/2001 9:26:41 AM "ben cooer" = "been cooler" 1097. PsychProf - 5/4/2001 9:27:02 AM Missie...you have observed what behavior they showed when thy knew they were on camera, and what the show's producers wanted us to see. Nothing more. A very poor sample of behavior from which to generalize, IMO. 1098. JudithAtHome - 5/4/2001 9:28:46 AM MsIT: 1099. Francis Urquhart - 5/4/2001 9:28:53 AM I liked the look of Keith wrt Colby. 1100. MsIvoryTower - 5/4/2001 9:28:54 AM PP 1101. MsIvoryTower - 5/4/2001 9:29:30 AM 1102. MsIvoryTower - 5/4/2001 9:29:57 AM 1103. MsIvoryTower - 5/4/2001 9:30:13 AM 1104. MsIvoryTower - 5/4/2001 9:31:33 AM toys 1105. PsychProf - 5/4/2001 9:31:37 AM Bubba...when one has control of the person and camera, as the producers do, I do not see how you can say "what you see is what you get". The first group of survivors has commented continuously that the show was skewed in the direction that the producers desired, and that many of the survivors were poorly known by the viewing audience. 1106. JudithAtHome - 5/4/2001 9:31:47 AM But the most telling point for me is that Richard Hatch knew it was Tina from day one...he picked her because he recognized in her the same thing I recognized in HIM...I knew Richard would win from Day One. 1107. MsIvoryTower - 5/4/2001 9:33:13 AM Don't know about that PP. The cameras rolled all the time, as I understand it. And after a while, I think the cameras become part of the scenery, and people begin to act naturally. 1108. OhioSTOPAS - 5/4/2001 9:33:59 AM Colby might have thought the "jury" would punish him for ejecting nice Tina for the obvious strategy of setting up a final against unliked Keith. And that would be reasonable thinking. Like someone (Judith?) said above, I don't think he was necessarily being altruistic in putting Tina in the final. 1109. JudithAtHome - 5/4/2001 9:36:01 AM Okay, Colby just gave himself away on the Early Show...they asked him if he'd thought about an agent and the interest in him by Madison Avenue. He said, in his ah shucks way, "I, I, um I honestly haven't thought about...of that in that way." and as he said it, he scratched his nose which any private investigator will tell you is a sign of lying. 1110. bubbaette - 5/4/2001 9:38:10 AM Even if Tina manipulated Colby, it's still clear to me that she was the better player. 1111. PsychProf - 5/4/2001 9:39:41 AM Missie...I beleive many of the scenes were contrived (by contestants and producers) with purpose...somehow "nauturalistic" is not a state I associate wirh this group or show. Moreover, I believe all survivors knew damn well when the camera was rolling and when it wasn't. Finally, why are you suprised at my reaction? 1112. OhioSTOPAS - 5/4/2001 9:40:38 AM Re 1106, I recall watching Jon Stewart's "Daily Show" when "Survivor 2" was beginning. One feature was a report from a reporter in the field, "live from the Outback". (Although she was in fact in front of an Outback Steak House.) 1113. Francis Urquhart - 5/4/2001 9:41:28 AM There is NO WAY any of the following votes go for Keith over Colby 1114. OhioSTOPAS - 5/4/2001 9:42:23 AM And last night's show was boring and bullshitfull, wasn't it? (But we watched anyway . . .) 1115. Francis Urquhart - 5/4/2001 9:42:42 AM bubba 1116. JudithAtHome - 5/4/2001 9:50:52 AM Maybe Colby had a moments lapse in sanity and confused Tina for his mom... 1117. Francis Urquhart - 5/4/2001 9:52:27 AM Well, he did say his mom's visit was like a conjugal visit to a prisoner, and then they bunked together in his car. 1118. RosettaStone - 5/4/2001 11:06:22 AM Survivor 2 got 21 rating/31 share, according to Drudge. 1119. JudithAtHome - 5/4/2001 11:48:23 AM Don't be so coy, Rosie...and what was that you were saying about me not understanding counter programming? HA! 1120. MsIvoryTower - 5/4/2001 12:16:45 PM Finally, why are you suprised at my reaction? 1121. RosettaStone - 5/4/2001 2:04:21 PM 51 million watched Survivor 1. 36 million watched Survivor 2. 1122. JudithAtHome - 5/4/2001 2:06:14 PM No, Stone, that was hardly the reason...it's because Survivor II was not something new and it had no built-in villian like Survivor I. 1123. AytchMan - 5/4/2001 3:45:02 PM Heartiest Congratulations to JudithAtHome, Winner of the Second Annual (Sort Of) Survivor Pool. 1124. JudithAtHome - 5/4/2001 3:47:52 PM Thank you so much...heavy is the head that wears the crown but I will try to do it justice. Can't wait to participate in a possible ThreePeat... 1125. AytchMan - 5/4/2001 4:03:36 PM We would also like to salute the runners-up -- Ms Ivory Tower and Fielding --as well as all of the other contestants. 1126. AytchMan - 5/4/2001 4:07:48 PM Administrative Note: 1127. RosettaStone - 5/4/2001 4:18:05 PM Perhaps? 1128. AytchMan - 5/4/2001 4:26:25 PM Question Of The Day: 1129. Indiana Jones - 5/4/2001 4:35:34 PM RS: I doubt vw will agree to co-host with you. Because this thread will be RIP'd about the time yours starts and because Aytch has shown some interest/expertise re digital culture, I suggest you sign him on as your co-host. He's been a model host from what I've seen (well, except for refusing to award me my well-earned laurels on a postmark-date technicality), and he apparently knows a good bit about the subject. Plus you two have a relatively clean slate with each other. 1130. JudithAtHome - 5/4/2001 5:08:33 PM Best to worst: 1131. ElliottRW - 5/4/2001 5:32:09 PM Everyone of these shows is just another tiny step towards "The Running Man." It's all a sinister plot to addict people to other people's misery: gross kids gameshows, The Jerry Springer show, now Survivor. Check your empathy at the door, folks. 1132. JudithAtHome - 5/4/2001 5:35:09 PM The tiny steps are at a gallop now...new show coming in a matter of weeks: The Runner. 1133. CalGal - 5/4/2001 5:37:34 PM Everyone of these shows is just another tiny step towards "The Running Man." 1134. AceofSpades - 5/4/2001 6:36:58 PM 1135. Ms. No - 5/4/2001 6:54:24 PM I didn't watch Survivor II and only saw bits and pieces of Survivor I, but a local radio show was interviewing cast members and production staff of Survivor II this morning and I did hear their interview with Tina. 1136. AytchMan - 5/4/2001 11:45:37 PM elliott-- 1137. JudithAtHome - 5/5/2001 2:03:18 AM Yes, it was called the Bible. 1138. JudithAtHome - 5/5/2001 2:09:21 AM ...and Tom Cruise is gay. 1139. Fielding - 5/5/2001 10:52:35 AM "We would also like to salute the runners-up -- Ms Ivory Tower and Fielding -- as well as all of the other contestants." 1140. JudithAtHome - 5/5/2001 10:59:26 AM I guess my party mood yesterday caused a lapse in manners...my mom would be so embarrassed! 1141. AytchMan - 5/5/2001 7:23:31 PM I wish to inform the winners and runners-up that their prizes are now enroute. A conservative estimate would put their value at forty times the entry fee. 1142. AytchMan - 5/5/2001 7:31:33 PM To start wrapping this thread up: 1143. Indiana Jones - 5/5/2001 7:39:53 PM Aytch: Media types probably get bent for the threat it represents to them and their paychecks. 1144. AytchMan - 5/5/2001 8:26:27 PM indy-- 1145. Indiana Jones - 5/5/2001 8:44:35 PM Aytch: But then we're back to the old "does art reflect life or does life reflect art"? 1146. AytchMan - 5/5/2001 9:05:03 PM does art reflect life or does life reflect art? 1147. MsIvoryTower - 5/5/2001 10:18:35 PM I don't think Survivor has peaked either. And despite my spectacular disinterest in any other reality program, something about the Survivor formula has hooked me. 1148. joezan - 5/5/2001 10:22:42 PM If I were to start watching TV, I'm sure Survivor would be the only thing I'd watch. 1149. joezan - 5/5/2001 10:24:11 PM I have enjoyed reading the discussion of the show here, though. And you have been an excellent host, H. 1150. JudithAtHome - 5/6/2001 8:55:37 AM Add my kudos to those of the others, H-man...this has been a comparatively high brow discussion and has certainly been fun participation for me. Another forum where Survivor has been the topic became somewhat combative at times...many people take this stuff seriously! 1151. Indiana Jones - 5/6/2001 10:24:36 AM Aytch: The primitive setting I think is the key, but I don't know how much variety they can achieve within that. Also, the game is fairly simple and straightforward, yet with a lot of depth. Most good games are, and it's a hard combination to achieve (i.e., few rules, lots of complexity in play). 1152. PelleNilsson - 5/6/2001 12:33:25 PM Perhaps an Actic setting next time? Igloos, raw seal meat, hypothermia, the whole Scott-Perry thing. 1153. AytchMan - 5/7/2001 2:15:54 AM Thanks, everybody. The Mote | Mote Archive
jeffshouldhavewon: Why do you believe that Kucha was so strong? Which qualities did this tribe possess that made them stick out from Ogakor?
Jeff Varner: The absence of Jerri Manthey!!!!!!!
uhhhhh... go to www.ifilm.com to view an independent, short movie starring Jerri as a pornographer. The film is called Triple-X.
No, you don't get to see her naked.
Sample dialogue:
GALLERY OWNER: "It's not my fault no one's buying your pictures. No one wants to see homeless derelicts. You're supposed to be a photographer, not a social worker."
PHOTOGRAPHER: "I've got all my money in this show. I'm broke."
GALLERY OWNER: "Start taking photos with your head, not your heart."
Later...
Enter Jerri.
JERRI: "I'm sick of this starving-artist crap. I want to have kids. I want to own things."
PHOTOGRAPHER: "You're breaking up with me because you want to own things?"
JERRI: "You know what I mean."
PHOTOGRAPHER: "No, Darcy. Actually I don't."
It's a fucking masterpiece!
JOB INTERVIEWER (typing into computer): "And do you do anal?"
APPLICANT: "Sure, I do anal."
INTERVIEWER: "And how about group sex?"
APPLICANT: "Um. How many?"
Big Brother was just godawful boring the couple of times I saw part of it. I don't think anything could be done to fix it without basically creating an entirely different show.
In a show like The Mole with a "plant," would a voting mechanism like this work? Everyone votes, but at random one person's vote doesn't count and all players are aware that one of their votes will be secretly discarded. And secretly, of course, no votes for the Mole ever count.
Therefore a player would never know whether his vote counted on any given round. They could collaboratively perhaps figure things out, but such collaboration would be another chance for the Mole to sow disinformation. To add further noise, the audience could get a single collective vote as well, subject to the same conditions as that of the players.
Alternatively, just let the Mole be voted off. That would be the players' win for figuring out who he/she was.
"Love is hard to find."
I'm betting on Alicia.
And wrt why Jerri will be voted off after the Colby alliance removes one or possibly two more ex-Kucha, they'll do it because she's such an annoying shit that they won't be able to stand being around her.
My guess also is that Colby, Keith and Tina will try to make an alliance with Nick and/or the Rodger/Elizabeth duo. Those three were pumped last week to do the Kucha thing, but their allegiance to that tribe is the weaker of those remaining. Nick, in particular, seems to be out in the cold. Unless he joins with an alliance in the other group, he'll be gone, and I think he knows it. Nor do I think he'll go with Jerri and Amber, he seemed pretty annoyed last week with the women generally, so my guess is that Colby and Keith could get him to ally with them.
All right, I turned Jerri's big movie off. I couldn't take it any more.
Jerri apparently is only in one two minute scene. I guess she did it as a favor.
The film is awful. I would not suggest watching it at work. It's R-Rated, with what could be called strong sexual content, were it not so lame.
But it's *trying* to be dirty, so that could get someone in trouble.
Why are you guys so enamored of the counterintuitive solution?
It's like a race between a blue car and a red car.
The red car is faster, quicker, more agile, tougher, and is wheeled by a better driver.
And MsIt and GJ both say: "Gee, I don't know! That blue car looks awfully good! I mean, geeze!, it's blue! "
JAH,
Yes, it was awful. I kept watching until I was pretty certain Jerri wasn't coming back.
Oh, maybe she shows up at the very end or something. But hardly worth it.
If they seem to get nowhere with that tactic, they will vote as a block against Alicia.
Kucha will, if they don't go for the KTC jump, hit Colby because he has 5 votes now and they will hope Tina, Jerri, or Amber can be won over to vote with them.
If the KCT alliance do such a dumb thing as go for Jerri tonight, they don't deserve to win. Any idiot can see that this would be more threatening to them than to wait for a week or two. I'm betting they aren't idiots and can control themselves for a while longer.
They need to cement their position first.
That wasn't a comment on your intelligence Judith. And I'm very sympathetic to your feelings, I've disliked Jerri from the very first show. She gives women a bad rep.
Anyway, I'm hoping she'll be gone within the next few weeks. We can look forward to that.
If Jerri is booted, then it's four Kucha vs four Ogakur... and Keith has two strikes, and Colby has five.
That would mean that Kucha could then vote Ogakur out, one by one, and nothing in the universe could stop them.
Ogakur will vote out two more Kuchas, definitely.
Only three weeks from now does it get interesting again.
In the Round of six, we can expect that the short-handed alliance (probably Jerri-Amber, though we can't be certain; Colby could ultimately align with them) will grab the last remaining Kucha and all vote against Colby -- forcing a 3-3 deadlock, and, in all likelihood, Colby's expulsion, and the triumph of the Jerri-Amber-and-a-Kucha-to-be-named-later Triumverate.
So, let's step one week back: In the Round of Seven, we *could* expect Colby's team to attempt a pre-emptive strike against the Jerri wing, and (with a Kucha or two) vote against Jerri or Amber.
But nothing unexpected happens before the Round of Seven.
Very clever. Ogakur's K-C-T alliance convinced the Kuchas to vote for Jerri.
Jerri now has SIX strikes against her-- one more than Colby.
Ergo, Colby is no longer the marked man in deadlocked voting.
I was almost convinced Jerri would get the boot tonight, despite the foolishness of it for Colby et al. However, I now think that unless Jerri wins immunity next time, she'll definitely be the next to go.
Jerri next, then maybe Amber or Nick. I wish I had put Tina in my final four, she's looking stronger every time now. Keith is also still a good possibility for final four, but I think Nick was a bad choice on my part. I think he'll be gone in the next three episodes.
Did Colby jump too soon?
What will happen this week? Well, if Jerri is smart, she will lie to the Kuchas, and convince them to vote with her against Colby. Colby will gain three more strikes; Jerri and Amber will vote with K-T-C against another Kucha.
Colby will thus lead in previous strikes.
Will the Kuchas go along with Jerri's lies? What choice do they have but to go along in the hope that Jerri and Amber will vote with them against Colby?
They've been used once (this week). Tina's word cannot be trusted.
I think Jerri has a rats chance in hell of getting the ex-Kucha members to vote with her. Tina and Keith will try to mend fences and I bet they promise to kill her off next vote. Colby is already chomping at the bit to get rid of her. Really, Rodger and Elizabeth don't have much choice but to ally with them, since they fully understand the issues with Jerri after only one week.
I really think she was a hair's breath away from getting it tonight.
Nick is gone soon though. Is he just uninteresting or what?
"Really, Rodger and Elizabeth don't have much choice but to ally with them, since they fully understand the issues with Jerri after only one week."
Uhhh, they lied to Rodger and Elizabeth once. Why should they trust them again?
*Jerri* now needs new bodies on her team. She knows the K-C-T block is against her. She and Amber need *two* Kuchas to take on K-C-T (because Jerri loses a 3-3 tiebreaker).
Colby has no need of the Kuchas. Why would he align with them?
I'm betting (hoping) that if they explain how they needed to get rid of Alicia first, then they could go after Jerri, that R and E will buy it.
Allying with Jerri will get them exactly no where.
"Btw, Jerri has at least 6 total votes against her. She exceeds Colby and Keith in total votes, I think."
Yes, I already noted this. K-T-C used the Kuchas -- lied to them -- to get Jerri more strikes, so that KTC can beat Amber-Jerri, even IF Amber-Jerri aligns with one Kucha to force a 3-3 deadlock.
This is why Jerri now *needs* two Kuchas. Colby needs zero.
"Allying with Jerri will get them exactly no where."
Um, yes it would. K-T-C has no use for the Kuchas. KTC is now a nearly unstoppable voting alliance, bigger than J-A and tied with N-R-E (though that will change shortly).
They have no need of anyone else, as the situation currently stands. They only need to get extra votes IF J-A gets extra votes by allying with N-R-E.
You seem to think Colby is calling the shots for the trio, but I don't necessarily see it that way. All are somewhat independent, but see their interests as compatable at this point, plus they like one another. This seems to be an issue with Tina and Keith particularly. They want to go down to the wire with people they like.
My guess is that Jerri won't make any alliance with R and E, E already dislikes her intensely. I think she'll try to work on getting the others to vote her off next.
But hey, who knows what will happen next? It's all speculation.
Hm. Maybe I should explain myself.
Of course KTC would like to have Kuchas voting with the alliance.
But KTC doesn't *need* them. The Kuchas can only trust the alliance that needs them -- in other words, you can only trust people to act in their own self-interest.
The KTC alliance is bigger than the J-A alliance, and thus it is more confident, and less needy. KTC needs to be on the winning side of two more expusions, and then they have the game won. (either get rid of two Kuchas, or get rid of one Kucha and J.)
J-A needs to do a lot more to win. They'd have to:
-- Get rid of one more Kucha
-- then join with the last two Kuchas to vote out KTC
J-A has more needs. Thus, they are more trustworthy. J-A needs Kuchas, badly, because they need them in the fight against KTC.
I admit I am assuming the KTC alliance is solid.
But I think that's a very safe assumption. Their alliance should be solid at the present moment because it is a winning alliance-- the strongest alliance going.
Why trade a strong alliance for some petty personal vindication?
Jerri will not win the game. Why should the KTC alliance join with NRE to vote her out next week, rather than three weeks from now?
KTC should use Jerri as a long as possible... then vote her out.
Now, if KT doesn't trust C, then I could see KT forging an alliance with NRE. But that only takes KT so far... because once the KTNRE fusion alliance votes out the rest of the Ogakurs, NRE vote out K, and then T.
"They want to go down to the wire with people they like... My guess is that Jerri won't make any alliance with R and E, E already dislikes her intensely."
What is this "like/dislike" bullshit? If a team *needs* Jerri for its path to victory, it aligns with her. Like/dislike doesn't enter into the bloody equation.
I'm fully aware of your rationale. And had Kucha been the dominant group within the merge I have no doubt they'd pick every one of the others off. They even said that was their strategy. In fact, I'm sure that's why they were all so glum tonight. They realize it isn't so much fun with they're the target. Alicia just about quit with her attitude in this episode.
However, it's my belief that KTC are less disciplined and less organized than the ex-Kuchas were, and less loyal to their group members. I think they just might cross lines in order to just get rid of Jerri ASAP.
I swear, I think both Keith and Tina were this <*> close to voting for her tonight.
Keith and Tina DO want Jerri out.
Once they've gotten rid of all the Kuchas.
Not until then.
If Jerri is smart enough to realize this, she will align with two Kuchas in the Round of Seven.
Unlike the first Survivor group, this group has more options for alliances, and aren't forced to stick with shits like Richard in order to make this work for them.
We'll see.
I'm going with a gut feeling that they aren't going to wait that long.
Ehhhh... KTCJA is a winning alliance. They can beat NRE.
KTC is a winning sub-alliance within that alliance. Once NRE is gone, they can vote out JA, and advance to the final three, each having a good chance at a million bucks. Or at least $100,000.
Why on earth should KTC change *anything* until they're *forced* to change something?
It's JA that is currently in trouble. JA needs to change the current dynamaic, not KTC.
And JA knows this. Jerri knows Colby, Tina, and Keith plan to vote against her if it should get down to the five Ogakurs.
If KTC votes against Jerri, what next?
Amber will probably shit a brick and sign up with the Kuchas... making it Kucha+Amber (4) vs. KTC (3).
Thus, KTC loses.
The Ogakor alliance will hold for the next 2 tribal councils. Nick and Rodger will get booted (in that order, assuming immunity isn't an issue).
In the round of 6, it's anybody's guess what might happen. Amber and Tina are relatively safe, but Elisabeth, Jerri, Colby and Keith are all potential candidates for the old heave-ho. In a shocker, I predict that Colby will be 'Big torch, no fire.'
If two Kuchas are voted out at the next two Tribal Councils, there will be no "surprise" at the Round of Six. Jerri and Amber will side with a Kucha, vote against Colby, and lose in the deadlock tiebreaker.
To change things, JA has to side with two Kuchas the previous week.
You could see it coming a mile away. In fact, the script is almost identical to Survivor I.
I hope whoever wrote that part will get an Emmy.
Or at least a Peabody.
I don't quite get it... A post which says the show is scripted stays; a post which throws doubt on that notion is moved.
Perhaps you should delete MsIT's posts, too. She disagreed with me. Disagreement is bad.
You could see it coming a mile away. In fact, the script is almost identical to Survivor I.
I enjoyed that part of the script which called for Michael Skupin to fall into the fire and suffer third-degree burns to his hands.
I hope whoever wrote that part will get an Emmy.
Or at least a Peabody.
All in all, it was a "Very Special Episode" of Survivor, on par with the famous Anal Sex episode of "Blossom."
Polite nicknames (ace, jade) are fine. Shred each other's opinions as you wish.
Seems to me that if Michale Skupin had not fallen into the fire, there is a very good chance the tribes would have merged 6-4 in favor of the Kuchas, and then the Ogakurs all would have been voted off in short order.
I can't wrap my head around this... how is the show "scripted" when, but for one terrible accident, the show would have gone in a completely different direction?
"Okay, Michael, are you ready for your Big Scened?"
"Errrr... actually, no. Is this 'stunt fire' of some sort?"
"Stunt fire? What's that?"
"I don't know. Some kind of fire that isn't hot."
"Ha, ha, ha. You're a real cut-up, Michael. No, this is a real fire pit, which has been burning for three weeks now. The coals at the bottom of the fire are well over 400 degrees."
"Farenheit or Celsius?"
"Does it matter?"
"Eh, no. I guess it doesn't. Now, you want me to pretend to put my hands into the coals--"
"Not pretend. We want you to put your hands into the coals."
"Oh, sure. I'll sell it, believe me. I'll really look like I'm putting my hands into the coals--"
"No, we don't want you to 'sell it.' You actually have to put your hands into the hot coals."
"Oh... For how long?"
"Eh, about fifteen or twenty seconds. It's up to you. USE the coals. Use the coals to establish your 'character.' Improvise. Have fun with it."
"Can Nick do this?"
"No. This is your big scene."
"Can Rodger do this?"
"Come on. Am I working with a professional here or not?"
"I guess so."
"Are you ready then, Superstar?"
"I guess."
"Okay, quiet on the set! Places! Roll film! And in five... four... three... two... one! Action!"
3ha. Pretty funny stuff.
How come you didn't get in the pool? [I've given up trying to challenge and shame you into it]
I meant to. Then I forgot about it. Then I figured I'd get on-line and pick KTC and Elizabeth but that was 15 minutes into the deadline (the Suvivor show last Thursday).
Since I don't think the results are anywhere near as predictable as you do, would you email me your picks as of now (8 contestants)? I won't publish them.
If not, no worries but I'd be interested.
aytchman@yahoo.com
"Okay. Okay. Stop cameras. Michael-- what happened there? You didn't fall into the fire."
"Uh, I know."
"Okay, so what happened? Talk to me, Brando."
"Well, I was all ready to stick my hands into the fire, just like you said..."
"Right. I'm listening."
"And then I had an idea."
"An idea?"
"Right. An idea. You told me to improvise, and I was thinking..."
"Yeah?"
"See, I was thinking: What does Mark Burnett want? And I thought: Mark Burnett wants drama."
"That's right. You hit the nail on the head, Michael."
"So, I thought, what's dramatic? Is my sticking my hands into 400 degree coals really that dramatic?"
"Works for me."
"No, hear me out, hear me out. What if -- and I'm just thinking off the top of my head here -- what if Nick and I get into a fight, a real haymaker, and then I grab Nick and throw him into the fire--"
(Nick:) "What?"
(Michael:) "See, and then Nick gets badly burned, really badly burned, and I have to drag him out of the fire. Heroically, you know. Like in Backdraft--"
(Nick:) "Now wait a fucking minute. Don't drag me into this."
(Michael:) "See, that's more dramatic. There's a fight -- dramatic! There's a rescue-- more dramatic! And maybe we could add a racial angle or something."
(Mark Burnette:) "Interesting. Interesting. Let me think about it... Okay, I've thought about it. Get into the fucking fire."
(As guards wrestle Michael into the fire): "Hey, wait! Stop! Don't do this! Let go!"
(grabbing at Nick as the guards pull him to the fire:) "Hey Nick, let's fight! I hate you! You, you, you... nigger!! Come on, fight with me, you spade!"
(Nick:) "Get off of me. This is your deal, buddy."
(Michael:) "Wait, wait, wait... Aaaaaaaaagh!"
Why do you make my life so difficult?
Picks?
All right, here are my picks.
It's either K-T-C plus A or JA plus RE.
But I think KTC plus A is more likely. SO KTCA. Colby to win.
Aytch:
Oh, please. "Nigger" and "spade" in the above aren't seriously meant. Not even the character Michael means them seriously. He's trying for that "racial angle."
Oh, well. I think it's sort of funny. But if those words bother you --even in the context they're used -- feel free to delete.
I'd like to take this offline. Do you have an eddress I can use?
Look, why don't you just delete the post? I understand.
If you want to discuss it with me, we can discuss it in the Inferno. I understand your objections; while I disagree with them, you are are thread-host, and I cannot pretend your objections are unfounded.
The words used are offensive; I think context makes it pretty clear that Michael is just desperately attempting to play up the dramatic "racial angle" he hopes to sell MB on; but still, offensive words are offensive words.
Delete if you want. I will not cry about it.
I will also not whine "Censorship" or anything else.
Honestly.
Aytch,
Seriously. What gives? I didn't mean to be snippy, and I didn't mean to suggest that I wouldn't like to talk with you off-line (although, generally, I don't really like talking with anybody off-line).
Please delete the offending posts.
See post in Inferno.
If two Kuchas are voted out at the next two Tribal Councils, there will be no "surprise" at the Round of Six. Jerri and Amber will side with a Kucha, vote against Colby, and lose in the deadlock tiebreaker.
Who's to say that they lose the tiebreaker? It's not inconceivable that Colby gets more votes in the intervening two Tribal Councils than Jerri.
It's also not inconceivable that Colby's plan all along has been to bring Jerri and Amber to the final 3 with him, expecting to win immunity easily, dumping Amber, and guaranteeing himself the million bucks. If that's the case, he'll convince the others to vote for Elisabeth in the round of 6, and end up going home when either Jerri and Amber, or Tina and Keith, secretly ally with Elisabeth.
"Who's to say that they lose the tiebreaker? It's not inconceivable that Colby gets more votes in the intervening two Tribal Councils than Jerri."
True. But even were that to happen (I hypothesized it might a time ago), then my reasoning just works the other way.
Now it is Colby's alliance which is behind; now it is Colby's alliance which needs to make a deal with one Kucha even as Jerri deals with another Kucha. If Jerri deals with a Kucha to force a 3-3 tie, then Colby will have to grab another Kucha, before that, to get back to 4-3.
Whichever way you cut it, another Kucha is being voted out next Council. Only two Kuchas, at most, are needed for the endgame.
"It's also not inconceivable that Colby's plan all along has been to bring Jerri and Amber to the final 3 with him, expecting to win immunity easily, dumping Amber..."
No, I don't think so.
1) You can't piss off crucial votes K & T so badly. What if Richard had betrayed Rudy on Survivor One? Well, Rich wouldn't have gotten Rudy's vote, and we'd be talking about million-dollar-winner Kelli right now.
Keith is pledged to T&C, I think.
2) Colby, in his confessionals, says that Jerri is going. Why would he lie to the cameraman?
Keith and Tina say Jerri is going.
Jerri and Amber suspect that Colby is voting with T & K against them, when the right time comes. Even though C tries to reassure them.
My conclusion? C *is*, in fact, in league with K & T. Call me crazy.
I can think of about a million reasons. Another one being that that blabbermouth of a host can't be trusted not to spill the beans at Tribal Council.
Well, he'd be doing some acting job, were your theory correct. He'd have convinced T & K he was with them while simultaneously (and oddly) convincing J & A he was NOT with them.
I agree with your theory that Colby would love to be in the final two with Jerri. But the problem is that the jury votes for the winner. Jerri is a bitch and everything, but if you lie flagrantly and brazenly to Tina and Keith, I think they'll vote for the bitch over you.
You cannot *guarantee* a win in the way you are suggesting. You *must* stay true to *some allies.* Because ultimately, you need their votes to win. You can only put yourself in a position that you *can* win.
Sue Hawk knew Rich was voting against her in the final rounds. Rich didn't lie to her; she knew that he and Rudy had a suballiance, and that, when forced to, Rich would vote against her.
Everyone knew that. No lying. No betrayal.
If Rich *had* lied to Sue and betrayed her, Sue would have given an even more venomous speech against Rich as she cast her vote for Kelli.
I must say: I'd like it more if there were no jury voting at the end.
Without a jury, the sort of vicious, nasty betrayal you are suggesting would be effective.
And great Television, of course.
But the jury means you must limit your Douchebag Factor to the minimum needed to put yourself in a position to win.
I don't think it DID happen in this week, which was something I meant to mention to MsIT.
I think it is was taken from a later time, when Colby really *was* ready to vote Jerri out.
It was deceptively inserted into this week's episode to make it seem as if the obvious -- vote out a Kucha -- wouldn't happen.
Nevertheless, he did say it, if at a later point in the game. It does indicate that his goal is to get rid of Jerri.
Eventually.
Once the Kuchas are gone.
Finally, if Colby wins immunity in the round of 6 (hardly a remote possibility) then he can virtually guarantee that Elisabeth is gone and almost lock himself a spot on the podium with Jerri.
This all presupposes that the alliance holds for the next 2 TCs, but I think that as long as Kucha poses any kind of threat (a voting bloc of 2 is still a threat at this point) they'll be voted off.
But wait a minute: I pretty much agree with this, and have said so myself a bunch of times.
On the negative side, it's heavily stage-managed and edited. If one's view of TV is that it should be uplifting and educational, you'll run screaming.
On the other hand, it's very entertaining and the strategy and alliance-making and -breaking is fascinating. The challenges are fun to watch and there is genuine hardship and danger.
It's trash TV but of the very highest quality.
So long, Alicia. As for the Cultural Wasteland Sweepstakes, well, the field begins to widen. The latest projections, just in from Pluto:
scott -- Alicia, Rodger, Jerri and Nick with Rodger to win. [.625]
pelle -- Rodger, Nick, Amber and Jerri with Jerri to win. [.75]
judith -- Keith, Rodger, Elisabeth and Colby with Keith to win. [.75]
stephanie -- Rodger, Elisabeth, Alicia, and Jeff with Rodger to win. [.50]
betsifur -- Colby, Alicia, Rodger and Nick with Alicia to win. [.375 ouch]
ms ivory -- Elizabeth, Rodger, Colby and Nick with Colby to win. [.75]
uzmakk -- Jerri, Colby, Roger, and Nick with Elisabeth to win. [.75]
cal -- Jeff, Alicia, Keith, and Nick with Alicia to win. [.375 ouch]
fielding -- Elisabeth, Jerri, Tina, and Jeff with Elisabeth to win. [.625]
laura -- Jerri, Elisabeth, Rodger, Jeff with Rodger to win. [.625]
aytchman -- Jeff, Nick, Jerri and Rodger with Rodger to win. [.625]
And, in the Unofficial 8-Contestant Discount Division:
ace -- Keith, Tina, Colby Amber with Colby to win.
As always, the projections have been certified by Professor Lowbrow in that alternate universe he inhabits.
And Uzmakk has a tricky little bet with Elizabeth to win without making the final four....that will indeed be an interesting feat.
It's lowering isn't it?
Hahahaha
I'm rooting for Elisabeth, btw. I also am surprized that Alicia was booted before Jerri.
"Especially since the show reminds me of the shit I hated in highschool."
Deadly snakes?
wrt why Jerri wasn't booted: 677-682
In a nutshell, booting Jerri would have been tantamount to suicide for the remaining Ogakor. Most people can put personal feelings aside when $1 Million is at stake. Booting Alicia was normal and expected.
cliques, backbiting, gossip, "in" lists, snits, that sort of stuff.
Jon
I expected Alicia to go, but I just expected Jerri to go before her.
S2 has become less interesting since Michael got burned, and the Evil Ogakurs triumphed.
I barely watched last week's show. My girlfriend didn't watch it at all, and she's the one who got me into S1.
So much for scripting.
Try as I might, I just can't get that jazzed about rooting for Pure Evil.
Next Wednesday's show recaps the first eight weeks of play (or whatever), which would set you up nicely for the last half of the show, which is where it gets the most interesting anyway.
It's a good show.
I myself am a survivor purist. I was totally hooked on the Original, Real and True Survivor show, complete with fat people, ugly people, stupid people and wierd people.
This beautified Aussie version is not for me. I will just live with my memories.
Hah!~ Snort!
Dillataunt!
Anyone can be beautiful and survive! But what about complete idiots, like the ones on Survivor I? I mean, think of being up against a neurologist who votes people off in alphabetical order? Now that takes some survival skill!
That wasn't true, Marsh.
Sean was being dopey, but not that dopey.
He wanted to vote with the alliance (i.e., against Jenna) without wanting to alienate the people he voted against. So he announced, "I'm voting alphabetically! I'm voting for JENNA!", knowing, then, that Sue, Rich, Rudy, and Kelli would all take his cue and vote for Jenna too.
He thought this would make people less angry at him.
As we know, it did not. People were angrier at Sean's "alphabetical voting" than they were at the Voting Alliance.
Marsh--
But it makes perfect sense.
See this is what I mean. It's like surviving in prison when you're surrounded by idiots and imbicles. Not always so easy for the smart one.
Well okay, I guess I might watch it next Wednesday if it provides a recap (and lets me begin in the middle!)
Did we learn anything new from the recap? Did it change anybody's view of the situation?
That's about it.
You have lurched uncontrollably into the salient truth. Watch how this seemingly inconsequential fact, heretofor unrevealed, sends the taut drama careening down an unforeseen path. Or not.
Anybody see Boot Camp? What are we to make of it?
Once again, the major irritant is voted off even though he worked harder than most and the major liability is left to be toted on a stretcher another day. I missed the first 10 minutes...how long does this run and how much money is involved?
BOOT CAMP begins with (16) sixteen ordinary Americans with no prior military experience. They are put through the ultimate "military-style boot camp" at an undisclosed U.S. military base. There, four (4) United States Marine Drill Instructors dish out discipline and training to the (16) sixteen new recruits. Every day, every hour, every minute, and every second will be dictated by the Drill Instructors.
What's at stake? A Half Million Dollars!
In each episode the recruits are given one hour to elect a Squad Leader from among their ranks. The Squad Leader works in liaison with the Drill Instructors to train the squad for an elaborate combat mission. If the squad successfully completes the mission the Squad Leader is granted "Amnesty" for that particular week. "Amnesty" means the recruit cannot be voted out (Dismissed) or taken from (Discharged) the game.
If the Mission is unsuccessful, no Amnesty is granted and the Squad Leader is fair game to be dismissed or discharged along with the other recruits. The "military-style" Missions, range from Demolition, to Reconnaissance, to Hostage Rescue. Each Mission will test the recruit's ability to think under pressure and act together as a unit. Success is rewarded. Failure is punished.
(more)
To win the Grand Prize, the recruits must not only endure the demands of the Drill Instructors but they must also exhibit diplomacy to one another because BOOT CAMP adds a new element that makes "alliances" virtually impossible.
Each week the recruits will vote and "Dismiss" a fellow recruit from BOOT CAMP. Now here's the catch. The "Dismissed" recruit must "Discharge" or take a fellow recruit with him/her. Simply put, the person who is voted out must take someone with them. Any recruit can be discharged for any reason with the exception of a squad leader who has earned Amnesty for that particular week.
In the end, the final (2) recruits compete in "THE GAUNTLET", a grueling 48 hour non-stop competition. Each event in "THE GAUNTLET", is named after a dismissed recruit. The events are based on physical, mental, and endurance tests. Dog tags are awarded to the winner of each gauntlet event. But the final two must also earn the dog tags of the last (6) six discharged recruits who form a final military tribunal. At the last Dismissal Hill Ceremony the (6) six discharged recruits individually pledge their dog tags to the most deserving recruit.
The Grand prize ($500,000) is awarded to the recruit with the most dog tags at the end.
HotDamn!!!
I can't wait to talk about this one!
Well, it was Thirty Seconds Over Jerri. I seem to recall a lot of analysis as to how this couldn't happen. What gives (or gave)? How does it line up from here?
Perhaps most interesting is how the producers completely disguised the alliance shift. Very clever on their part.
You have incoming hotmail.
I believe there was much ado about how this couldn't happen. I'm proud to report that my record for predicting the next victim is holding strong. First Jeff, then Alicia, now Jerri.
Of course, had Nick not won immunity, it would have played the way Ace and others predicted, but then, again, Kelly would have been out in the first Survivor had the same not happened with her.
Immunity becomes the wild card in the game at this point.
LadyC!
Coolest.
I didn't think Colby would be stupid enough to let that happen.
Interesting show, tonight.
Keith and Tina were getting insecure about Colby's free-lancer position -- i.e., that he was telling both Jerri/Amber and Keith/Tina that he was with them.
So Keith demanded that Colby show his true colors by voting against Jerri *now*. Apparently Keith considered a later betrayal by Colby more of a threat than an alliance between Amber & the Kuchas.
Which isn't very smart. If the Kuchas grab Amber, then they can win the game. Obviously, T-K-C will be wooing Amber like crazy too.
Amber looked thunderstruck by the Jerri shocker. (I wasn't, BTW; I noticed something funny: the producers were selling us on the "Elizabeth gets voted out" story line, rather than concealing it, as you'd expect them to do if she were getting voted out). So perhaps Amber will be so shocked she'll join the Kuchas.
Let's face it: Amber is either fucked or blessed. She is the odd woman out among two tight three-man voting blocks. She can dictate which troika makes it to the finals, but she'll be the one each troika first votes out.
She could play it this way: Vote against a Kucha next week. Then, the following week, she joins the two remaining Kuchas to vote out either Colby or Keith (both lose in a three-three deadlock, due to multiple strikes).
She could keep shifting her alliance week-by-week. And people would LET her, because everyone would need her key swing vote.
I think Colby has showed better strategic thinking than Keith or Tina. He repeated Ace's strategy last night (stick with those who brung you), but that may be going out the door now.
OTH, spending a day with Jerri where she bubbles about a romantic honeymoon may have sent him over the edge.
More so than the first show, there is a lot of information that is not being shown to the viewers. Cracks in the Tina-Keith-Colby relationship are speculation at this point.
Note when I say "I wasn't surprised" above, I am speaking of relative surprise.
I WAS surprised. Happily surprised.
I was not, however, shocked, as my girlfriend was. When the began selling the "Elizabeth gets voted out" storyline, I turned to my girlfriend and said, "You know, Keith can just vote for Jerri if he wants and she'll be voted out (due to the tiebreaker in a 4-4 deadlock)." I thought something like that was coming.
I didn't expect the 6-2 route, however.
Note when I say "I wasn't surprised" above, I am speaking of relative surprise.
I WAS surprised. Happily surprised.
I was not, however, shocked, as my girlfriend was. When the began selling the "Elizabeth gets voted out" storyline, I turned to my girlfriend and said, "You know, Keith can just vote for Jerri if he wants and she'll be voted out (due to the tiebreaker in a 4-4 deadlock)." I thought something like that was coming.
I didn't expect the 6-2 route, however.
Nicks immunity changed the entire game...
Ace, I'm still convinced you're underestimating Keith.
scott --alicia, Rodger, jerri and Nick with Rodger to win. [.56]
pelle --Rodger, Nick, Amber and jerri with jerri to win. [.42]
judith -- Keith, Rodger, Elisabeth and Colby with Keith to win. [.85]
stephanie --Rodger, Elisabeth, alicia, and jeff with Rodger to win. [.56]
betsifur -- Colby, alicia, Rodger and Nick with alicia to win. [.42]
ms ivory --Elizabeth, Rodger, Colby and Nick with Colby to win. [.85]
uzmakk --jerri, Colby, Roger, and Nick with Elisabeth to win. [.70]
cal -- jeff, alicia, Keith, and Nick with alicia to win. [.28]
fielding -- Elisabeth, jerri, Tina, and jeff with Elisabeth to win. [.56]
laura -- jerri, Elisabeth, Rodger, jeff with Rodger to win. [.56]
aytchman -- jeff, Nick, jerri and Rodger with Rodger to win. [.56]
And, in the Unofficial 8-Contestant Discount Division:
ace -- Keith, Tina, Colby, Amber with Colby to win [way to hang, ace].
This time, the projections have been verified by the 1996 Staff of the California Future Energy Requirements Department (nice job, kids).
They pale in comparison with the beautiful Colby.
Colbster is playing smart, that's for sure. But that may doom him soon.
Oh, and Jerris rationalization for being gone is that now she's in a position of awesome power...on the jury.
I think America has judged Jerri, and done so quite perceptively. Each new comment she utters only reinforces that judgment. She's the witch woman come to life.
Et al
Here' my take on why Jerri was kicked off this week:
1. She'd been getting on everyone's nerves to the point of no bearing;
2. People are worn down by the grind of the game. They're hungry, tired, and going a bit crazy, and this is probably the biggest factor that worked against Jerri;
3. She made the scene about choosing Colby for last night's favor, had she just shut up, she'd have won anyway, and no hard feelings would have been endured;
4. She's delusional, and I think that finally got to Colby, who was the lone hold out last night for a more "guaranteed" course of action.
All in all, I think we're imputing too much rationality to these folks after 27 days in the outback, and I think the idea of voting Elizabeth off over Jerri just was too hard to bear for TKC, and in the end, they decided to dump her.
I bet they might regret it in the coming weeks, particularly if Amber becomes the swing vote, but they didn't regret it for a moment last night. The little half-smile on Colby's face after the vote let us know how sweet this was to him.
As for Amber, I've grave doubts she's smart enough to play the swing game, but it's possible she'll rise to the occasion. I rather think she's devastated and feeling hung out to dry by the whole event last night. My guess is she'll cling to any words of comfort Colby and Tina offer her, even if the reassurances will ring hollow and be next to worthless.
I have to say, though, that had Elizabeth been voted off last night, I'd have given up this show for the predictable course it would have taken after that. Now, I'm as hooked as ever.
804 is Pulitzer material.
No, wait, Judith is always ...
Never mind. (g)
But if it excites you to imagine that I hate you, don't let me stop you. (g)
Grrrrr.
Ya, I've noticed.
I can't imagine the stress they're under. To assume they are objective, detached in their analysis, and rational at all times is a mistake, I think.
H-Man
Here's my prediction for next week:
Nick will go, and after Nick, Amber. I think Colby knows just how dangerous she is as a possible swing vote, and I think he'll make a deal with Elizabeth, and maybe Rodger, to eliminate these two.
I also think I was wrong about Keith being in the final four, I now think Tina has a better chance of getting there than he does.
I think the first time Keith gets an immunity after Nick and Amber are gone, Tina is toast.
Then you guys realize that you hate eating rice and need the guy who provides you with fish (or even an occasional pig-hunt) and I come back for a while.
Maybe the analogy's a bit of a stretch. (g)
In light of last week's big surprise, what would the most surprising thing that could happen from here on out?
Bonus question: who is least likely to be sent into the Cosmic Void at this point?
The most surprising thing? I dunno. Depends what Amber does this week. It's still anybody's ball-game. Keith or Nick winning would be a shocker, but either (but not both) could make the final 2. Keith and Nick in the final 2 would probably be the most surprising way for this to play out. The second most shocking would be Amber and Elisabeth in the final 2 because that means that CBS gave the winners away on their website.
But it makes you wonder, a little, whether David Brin might have miscalculated in 'The Transparent Society' when he stated that people wouldn't like the idea of 'transparency' to begin with. The novelty may have worn off on reality television, but people are still tuning in and new shows are still coming out.
Welcome back, A-5!
I haven't read the book. Expound a little.
Also, if you care to take a shot at it, what's the main objection to the reality shows? A further dumbing down of mass culture? Thinly-disguised voyeurism? A lamentable schadenfreude?
I hope it's that one; I adore that word.
Is it surprising that people posting on this thread know what it means?
A-5:
It's probably too late to start this but I've always been interested in the reasons people with more wealth leave their windows open to the world and those in neighborhoods lower down the scale close them up tight so no one can possibly see inside. My neighbors think I'm crazy because I don't have blinds on my windows and you can see inside. I happen to like the light but they would rather think it's nuts...
I realize you are using transparency as metaphor...it's been a long day for me and I feel a little the way my neighbors think...
That's MISTER peeping tom to you, sister.
Is it surprising that people posting on this thread know what it means?
Not to me. This thread boasts some of the most highly-cultured, over-educated trash-TV watchers in the world.
Catch Jayackroyd on it if you want an in-depth review of it, he's much more serious on transparency than I am. But in brief:
In response to your query: I don't know what the common objection to them is. My own objection to them is that they're rather uninteresting and indeed part of the 'lurid scenes for vapid minds' vicious cycle thing that mainstream television has going on. They are calculated to appeal for three reasons, sex, a chance to see pathetic people acting pathetically, and the idea that you're seeing something you culturally aren't supposed to -- Msit's 'vulgar voyeurism'. That's boring to me, but also sort of offensive because -- however wrongfully --whenever I see something like that on television I get the nagging feeling that someone out there is insulting my intelligence. Intellectually I'm quite aware that I'm not a part of any prime time targetable audience, but still. There you have it.
I have seen three minutes of Survivor 2, and that was during a rare bout of television watching -- surfing in this case -- and, lamentably, had more to do with a tight and small white bikini than anything else. It's like a car crash that you have to watch in morbid fascination.
There's nothing lamentable about schaedenfreude. It's a wonderful emotion.
Thanks for the brief on transparency.
As for your objections to Survivor, uninteresting I understand although I don't share that feeling. I think the producers' goals may well include the "lurid/vapid" appeal although they wouldn't put it that way of course.
But I find the strategic alliance-making and breaking very interesting and entertaining to follow. Of course, we're all aware the show is heavily edited and packaged.
I guess I find that the competition of Survivor surmounts whatever baser instincts are at work. And I can readily agree that most of the other reality shows have been third-rate in both concept and execution.
You really don't watch much TV, do you? If you did, the feeling wouldn't be nagging; it would be screaming.
You could be like me and just not have neighbors at all!
Boot Camp continues to lumber along, searching for that certain something to make the grade. It's not quite making it but it has possibilities. What's missing?
-aka leader of the pack
My prediction for tomorrow's Survivor is that Nick gets booted if he can't hide behind immunity, and if he wins it for a second time, then I predict that Rodger will be the next to go.
I think it unlikely this week, however.
I should say, my partner has all of these. They are his toys in the sense that he got them for us. But addictive ones, I might add.
This strategy was mentioned somewhere upthread but it seems now to be the evolving killer strategy into the mid-game. Yes/no?
Next week, Amber.
The remaining five will be Elizabeth, Rodger, Tina, Keith and Colby. Who will go then?
Somehow they seem to be suffering starvation and resource depletion at a higher level than the first group.
The fact that no further wildlife has been spotted also gives increased support for the earlier hypothesis that the pig was planted by the producers. What about the kangaroos? Are they protected such that they're off limits for food?
I think Colby said the worst thing was the loss of mental stability. I think the producers are going to have to step in soon and give those people more food. They look awful.
I agree that Amber is next, MsIT.
She's working hard to disspell the negative image she has now that Survivor has aired. However, she still came across as full of spin and self-serving. The more extreme reactions to her might abate due to her media opportunities, but her basic character came through on the show and even she can't deny that.
Her comment when asked if America saw the real Jerri was that, while the producers definitely edited out the kinder moments of the group interactions, we saw a piece of her personality.
She's hoping that the Survivor exposure will give her more acting opportunities. Oh, and she was very emphatic that she's been trying to break into the business for the last 8 years. She said it's not a case of her wanting to be an actress as a result of Survivor but that she is (and has been) an aspiring actress who happened to be on that show.
So take that to the bank.
Didn't I see a couple of them chasing grasshoppers with nets? Why can't they net fish?
And how evil was it to auction off greasy indigestible food to hungry people who haven't had a decent meal in weeks?
I was amazed at the amount of work some of them were able to do making that shelter.
The nets they were using didn't look strong enough to catch fish, looked like loose cotten weaving to me.
I was speculating that the food was laced with samonela. I'd like to see all of em punch the shit out of the m.c.
It seemed like they all thought this was just a consequence of failing to pay attention to rationing, ie proper planning and organization, which is all part of survival.
Had the producers gone in and just given the food to these guys, it would have undermined a major element of the game: to see who could survive under extremely tough conditions. We'd have all thought the thing was even more of a scam had there not been any consequences for misuse of food stocks.
For that matter, what happened to all that chicken feed? These guys ate all their food without any thought to future needs, and rightly got slapped for it.
I was not surprized to see Nick go -- in fact I think he wanted it.
My guess is Keith is the next to go.
Amber is out next week.
Tina is the unknown to me - I'm not sure if she'll make it to the final four or not. The alternatives are Rodger and Keith, either one of them may be out and Tina in their place, but Colby and Elizabeth are shue ins for the end game.
He cracks me up because he never stops playing the game,(see his face shot when Jeff explained the immunity challenge last night) but he also has a sense of generosity with the other players.
The maximum fine for pocketing coral from the reef is $110,000.
Given that the contestants are fairly isolated, that the site was chosen by the producers, and that they would have much more insight into what is permissible, I'd assume the burden is on them. But maybe not.
scott -- alicia, Rodger, jerri and nick with Rodger to win. [.50]
pelle -- Rodger, nick, Amber and jerri with jerri to win. [.33]
judith -- Keith, Rodger, Elisabeth and Colby with Keith to win. [1.00]
stephanie -- Rodger, Elisabeth, alicia, and jeff with Rodger to win. [.67]
betsifur -- Colby, alicia, Rodger and nick with alicia to win. [.33]
ms ivory -- Elizabeth, Rodger, Colby and nick with Colby to win. [.83]
uzmakk -- jerri, Colby, Roger, and nick with Elisabeth to win. [.67]
cal -- jeff, alicia, Keith, and nick with alicia to win. [.17]
fielding -- Elisabeth, jerri, Tina, and jeff with Elisabeth to win. [.67]
laura -- jerri, Elisabeth, Rodger, jeff with Rodger to win. [.67]
aytchman -- jeff, nick, jerri and Rodger with Rodger to win. [.50]
And, in the Unofficial Discount Division:
ace -- Keith, Tina, Colby, Amber with Colby to win [way to hang, ace].
As always, report all errors to the appropriate Federal Agency.
But the contestants seem to be very inept at gathering food. There seems to be plenty of fish. With all that time on their hands, I'd have thought they would have figured out long ago that grasshoppers would make good bait.
Ah well, easy for me to say as I sit here eating a bowl of chocolate chip ice cream.
We've finally gotten familiar enough with these guys to decide whether we can stand 'em or not. As a group, is the Survivor 2 pod easier to bond with than the first crowd?
It would have been so great to see Richard with Jerri...in the new Vanity Fair, she has replaced Linda Tripp as Most Hated in the What's Hot; What's Not column.
Richard has picked Tina as the winner, by the way.
Had one team merely picked the other off before feeding on their own I'd have given it up after the merge as well.
Now, with the exception of Amber, I like everyone else left, and would be happy to see any of them come out the winner.
And you're right H, this group is definitely having a harder time of it than the first Survivor's.
Dated, but still true.
Judith:
if Amber is smart, she will vote with the Kuchas tonight, forcing a 3-3 deadlock which the Kuchas will win.
Then next week, she can side with the Ogakurs, and remain in the 3-2 winning coalition.
The following week, she can side with the one remaining Kucha AGAIN, forcing a 2-2 deadlock which she should win (unless Keith or Colby (whoever is left) wins immunity).
Amber can, if she plays her cards right, guarantee a birth in the final four.
It doesn't take a lot of "smarts." It's sort of obvious. Plus, she has 15 unused hours per day to think about it.
She might piss off the Jury at the end... but so what? The beauty of Amber's situation is that she doesn't really have to lie or betray anyone.
She can announce: This is what I'm doing. I'm switching my allegiance every week.
And what can anyone say about it?
'Bitch'
Unless Elizabeth becomes very ill and lets it be known she wants to leave...
Good lord! A moron is smart enough to do that!
Just wait...you'll see.
Alternately, Amber can just side with Kuchas from here on out.
Assuming the Kuchas won't betray Amber (and why should they?), then Amber, Elizabeth, and Rodger can vote out each and every other Ogakur, proceed to the Final Three, and let luck dictate the outcome from there.
Actually, that's the better strategy. Much better. The shifting-back-and-forth is too cute and, as it turns out, unnecessary, assuming that the Kuchas trust Amber and won't back-stab her, which is a good bet because that strategy serves their interests.
Consider:
The Kuchas *need* Amber. They'd have no reason to vote her out in favor of either K-T-C (whoever's left at the end), for K-T-C would, presumably, have the solid Jury votes from the deposed members of that coalition.
So Amber is good for the Kuchas.
meanwhile, the Kuchas are good for Amber, comparatively. There are will be more Ogakurs on the Jury than Kuchas.
It makes sense for both of them, so they can trust each other. Well, not "trust" each other.
They can each trust that each will act in his own best interests which, under the circumstances, should mean that they will stick together.
Tonight we will find out that the Amber-Elisabeth dialogue was much more productive than the last show's editing would have us believe.
We will learn that:
-- Elisabeth and Amber agreed that Amber could NOT vote with the THREE Kuchas, because then the Three Kuchas wouldn't need her after a couple of weeks, and would just vote her out.
-- But Amber COULD vote with TWO Kuchas, because Two Kuchas would need her until the very last round.
--Amber told Elisabeth she was voting out Nick. Elisabeth sadly agreed.
--But Rodger & Elisabeth know that Amber is voting with them this week, and, presumably, for all remaining weeks.
"Sometimes I'm so smart I scare myself."
-- Peter Falk as Vince Ricardo in "The In-Laws"
K-T-C blew it big time by voting out Jerri far too early.
Had they waited just one more week -- just one -- they could've been a juggernaut.
(of course, waiting one more week risked a 2 kucha-Amber-Jerri alliance... but Jerri, god bless her, was clueless that Colby wasn't wrapped around her finger.)
Said he wouldn't have done a thing different than what he did, and that had Kucha been the ones to get the upper hand after the merger, he'd have been in the final four.
Pssshaw, I seriously doubt it.
And the interview cemented my view that he was a silent whiner (whining to himself instead of the group).
gee, they're giving Amber a lot of play this week. Like she's an important swing vote or somethin'.
God, I hate always being right.
Well Ace, I guess then you can be thankful for how seldom you actually are correct. Though you are of course always ON the right. I would hate that also.
Eh... I'm surprised.
Someone made a deal with the Kuchas. It just wasn't Amber.
Had Amber dealt when she had the chance, she'd be headed for the final three.
But, as Judith said, she was too fucking stupid to do so.
I'm left wondering if this is the kiss of death for Colby or whether he was a part of the split vote.
Then the scenes from next week are tantalizing; Colby and Keith have a falling out? Is this due to Colby being odd man out this week or just the inevitable tensions running high in the final stretch?
Tina is more secure then I'd ever predicted when I made my pick for final four. Now I don't see how she'll not be one of the final players.
The producers seem to be setting the stage for a Colby-Keith knockout, which would leave Rodger, Elizabeth and Tina as the shoo-ins and the 5th place open between C and K.
Now that's a surprise to me, I didn't think Colby would end up being that vulnerable.
The latest-but-easily-ignored Survivor Projections are in. With the exception of one Northern European, the offically-sanctioned crowd escaped without a scratch. Ace's gray-market division was another story, however. Judith continues to lead, trailed by Ms. Ivory Tower and The Gang Of Four (stephanie, uzmakk, fielding and laura):
scott --alicia, Rodger, jerri and nick with Rodger to win. [.60]
pelle --Rodger, nick, amber and jerri with jerri to win. [.20]
judith -- Keith, Rodger, Elisabeth and Colby with Keith to win. [1.20]
stephanie --Rodger, Elisabeth, alicia, and jeff with Rodger to win. [.80]
betsifur -- Colby, alicia, Rodger and nick with alicia to win. [.40]
ms ivory --Elizabeth, Rodger, Colby and nick with Colby to win. [1.00]
uzmakk --jerri, Colby, Roger, and nick with Elisabeth to win. [.80]
cal -- jeff, alicia, Keith, and nick with alicia to win. [.20]
fielding -- Elisabeth, jerri, Tina, and jeff with Elisabeth to win. [.80]
laura -- jerri, Elisabeth, Rodger, jeff with Rodger to win. [.80]
aytchman -- jeff, nick, jerri and Rodger with Rodger to win. [.60]
And, in the Ace Hardware Division:
ace -- Keith, Tina, Colby, amber with Colby to win.
Since errors in the data are impossible, there will be nothing to report to anyone this week.
What price victory?
Another interesting show tonight. The game is certainly exacting a heavy toll -- famine, flood, fire, Jerri. Is the price too high? Should the conditions be eased somewhat for Survivor 3? Or is this still a good deal for a shot at a million clams?
One of the things that shows me Colby is less smart than I originally thought was the way he gobbled that food, knowing he would become sick after.
I think Keith has built up a big resentment toward Colby; after all, this is the guy who asked Tina to let him get immunity one week so he's fairly arrogant about what is due him...but the fact she did give up and let him win that time tells me she and Keith are locked in and will boot Colby next week. I really underestimated Tina when I made my final 4 choices and wish I'd gone for her over Colby. Ah well, we can't all be as smart as Ace!
I agree that Colby is now vulnerable in a way I didn't expect, however, I predict he'll win immunity again, and if he does, Keith will be toast.
Colby will make an alliance with Elizabeth and Rodger, and Tina will go along to boot Keith out. Even if she doesn't, I believe Colby will end up protecting his flank and working hard to get Keith off next week.
And Colby now has the strength and mental advantage over the others, his winning the food challenge last night might have lost him some political ground, but it also gave him a physical boost that will give him the edge over the others in winning immunity. My guess is that he'll let someone else win the food challenge this week and save his capital for immunity.
I missed this, what's the scoop?
so, what's gonna happen is the final two will be voted on live TV by the gang of just-misseds as was last time.
so, there should be some actual excitement for those that follow the show.
I don't know that Colby lost much by winning the food challenge. I was glad to see him ask if he could share the bread and it doesn't seem that the rest of them were resentful.
This group is certainly a more likeable group than the last Survivor. The serious hardships they've been facing seems to have developed esprit d'corps among them but have also probably made it more difficult for them to have the will to stick it out individually.
It's a guy thing.
I agree that Tina rocked last night. It's why I now think she'll be a shoo-in for the final four.
I have repeatedly underestimated her in this game. I don't know that she's played a consistent strategy, but she's been quick to figure the situation with every new twist it's taken.
I do believe that Keith's time has come, however. He should be the next to go. And I predict, somewhat shakily, that he will be out next week.
Oh well, at least Keith still has his shoulders. Colby is looking very shrunken; shrunken with muscles...hmmmmmm. But the lad has no shoulders at all.
See, talk about Trash TV...I watch Regis for bits of news on Survivor just so I can report to y'all...what a sacrifice!
I have a vested interest in seeing that Keith is the next to go, you know.....
I think Colby looks fine as he is, even starving and weak. The man has a presence, and I hope he'll be smart enough to capitalize on it when this show ends.
Colby, the next big male model?
Outback Fashions by Colby?
Sweatwear by ColTex?
I think he definitely will have a future as a male model, though. His eyes and teeth are very striking and he has that spark with the camera.
On the other hand, I'm probly just a sap because if they hadn't run the scenes of conflict for the next show, I would have guessed Keith as the next to go.
My guess is that Roger gets it tonight.
Bubbaette -- Jeff and Jerri perhaps deserve each other. He's looking for respect and she is looking for a honeymoon in the outback.
My prediction streak has been broken; Keith didn't get the boot this week after all.
I'm sorry to see Rodger go, though.
Btw, I heard that there's a rumor running around the net that Keith and Tina are the final two, and that Keith wins.
That would be almost as bad as Richard winning from the first Survivor, but not quite. Of all the remaining people, he's the least appealing to win, IMHO.
The scenes involving the familes were real tear-jerkers, weren't they? I was >*< this close to sobbing myself.
Keith's proposal via internet was icky - it seemed very calculated to me and certainly put the girl on the spot.
In praise of Colby -- his persistence in playing the game allowed him to win the immunity challenge, taking advantage of luck. I think Keith is out of his league completely.
Somebody in my office said that this time around they've sealed the final votes so that even the contestants don't know who won, just who the final two are. It will be unsealed in two weeks during the final episdoe. Any truth to that?
I agree with everybody about Keith not being able to win. I despise him.
I'm reduced to rooting for Pretty Boy. At least he's not a douchebag.
He will, however, have to win the final challenge, which will almost certainly be an endurance challenge. Something Tina and Keith are better than him at.
Tina and Keith will both pick each other over Colby to advance to the Final Two. Colby's odds look very long indeed.
Challenge 1: Talk to your family on the internet; your family has to answer questions about wilderness survival. Tina won, and got to talk to her family for a half hour.
BTW, they gave everyone danishes and coffee. That wasn't the reward; that was just giving them food. The producers, again, are forced to contrive justifications for feeding these starving morons, or else they just sit around all day.
It was a big mistake to force them to change camps. The fish were practically jumping out of the water at the old Kucha camp.
Challenge Two: Similar to the "Island Myths" challenge near the end of last year's show, Probst tells the gang various facts about life as prisoners in old-days australia. Each Suvivor wears manacles locked by five padlocks. To win the challenge, they must remember each fact Probst mentions; at various way-stations, they get keys to the padlocks if they know the right answer. Each survivor must run the course, answer five questions right to undo the five padlocks, and then run to the finish line.
Keith gets to the finish line first, but he drops a lock along the way and he cannot find it before Colby gets to the finish line. Colby wins immunity.
Two more suspicious happenings:
The rice, washed away from the camp, "just happens" to be found nearby the camp.
The producers, I'm thinking, put it there, or replaced the lost can of rice with a similar one. They couldn't give these morons MORE rice, so they contrived a way for the Survivors to "find" it.
Idiot Keith had the matches in his pocket when he swam out to get the rice... thus, no more matches, no more fire. Thus, no drinkable water and no water to cook rice in.
A problem.
The solution?
The Survivors "find" a burning log near by their camp, from a "forest fire," it's claimed, although the local area seems utterly untouched by fire. Only one log is burning.
Presto. Instant fucking fire.
None of this makes the show "fixed" in the sense that the outcome is fixed.
It is pretty annoying, though. The producers have to do a better job of scouting locations and making CERTAIN that there are lots of fish about.
And these stupid fucking contestants really should spend two weeks learning how to make a fire from scratch.
Jesus Christ. How long is it going to take these fuckheads to realize that maybe making fire is an important skill to acquire?
(sorry for the intrustion. Having never seen this show, the descriptions of what goes on make it sound absolutely ludicrous. I guess you have to see it to appreciate it, eh?)
GJ,
Colby said he suspected that Keith and his girlfriend had perhaps worked out the proposal ahead of time, as an attempt to curry sympathy.
I can't say I find his suspicion far-fetched.
GJ,
Did anyone notice that Keith's girlfriend was 15 years younger and a knockout?
What the fuck is happening in the world?
I agree it was awfully suspicious that they suddenly found the log but don't go blaming Keith for the lack of fire...it was Mothers fault...Nature, ya know?
Keith sucks.
"The fire was killed by the rain, not Keiths lack of dry matches and they said it was next to impossible to start fire with wet wood, THEN they found the "burning log"."
1) you assume events happened in the sequence shown. This is not a safe assumption.
2) Whatever caused the fire to go out, it remains suspcious that a Magical Burning Log was found within eye-range of the camp.
Colby only has "Mom."
This makes no sense whatsoever, unless:
The Colbster is gay.
I kept waiting for Keith to pass out from the smoke of the burning log.
OTOH, young people might only have been picked *IF* unattached. They're always hoping for that romance angle, after all.
(Then again, Elizabeth has a serious boyfriend.)
I don't see that, JAH. He seems reasonably likeable to me.
Keith, OTOH, is inexplicably arrogant.
I'm beginning to understand Jerri's reaction to him.
Maybe I'm just jealous about Keith's superhot girlfriend.
Yeah.
That dirty fucker.
"Peas" and "Carrots."
:-)
Question:
What now?
Does everyone do the expected thing and vote Elisabeth out?
Or, does Colby get worried about the threat he poses to Keith and Tina and vote with Elisabeth against Keith?
Extremely unlikely. Elisabeth is just as much, if not more, of a threat, to Keith and Tina than is Colby. So what's the point? Plus, they'd have to piss off Colby (and thus his vote) to do it.
Colby's boxed in by similar considerations. Sure, he could turn on Keith and Tina. But to what end? To betray them, then put them on the jury to decide the game's winner? With Elisabeth then getting both all of the Kucha votes plus almost all of the Ogakur votes?
Could Elisabeth possibly finally win an immunity challenge?
If so, bye-bye Colbster.
The final vote:
Elisabeth vs. Colby -- Elisabeth probably wins.
Elisabeth vs. Tina -- Elisabeth probably wins.
Elisabeth vs. Keith -- Elisabeth wins, hands down.
Colby vs. Tina -- Colby probably wins.
Colby vs. Keith -- Colby wins.
Tina vs. Keith --Tina wins, easy.
Jerri -- Will not vote for Keith; might vote for any Kucha over any Ogakur.
Amber -- same. Might vote for Colby, though, because Colby did NOT vote against her last week. This seems to have been a ruse by Colby to curry favor with Amber.
Black Chick (how quickly we forget her name) & Nick & Rodger -- most likely, will vote for E, C, T, K in that order of preference.
Elisabeth, it seems, cannot lose *if* she gets to the final two. Thus, she will not be allowed to.
She has to win immunity twice in a row.
Who would she vote against in that situation. And will Tina stick to Colby or Keith?
We haven't gotten any feedback in a while about those relationships.
Ehhhhhhhh... I guess so. Then Colby would vote with her, force a tie, which Keith then loses.
"Who would she vote against in that situation. And will Tina stick to Colby or Keith?"
Keith. Keith is the perfect guy to go to the final two with. Colby is much more likeable. Tina could beat Keith standing on her head. She would probably lose to Colby.
"We haven't gotten any feedback in a while about those relationships."
Piss on "relationships." It's all about the Jury at this point. You want to avoid betraying anyone and you want, if possible, to go to the final two with Keith if you can do that without betraying anyone.
K & T would vote against Colby.
Colby will only vote against Keith if forced to by Elisabeth's immunity.
Colby doesn't want Elisabeth in the final round, of course.
How stupid was Amber not to join the Kuchas last week?
And GJ, yes, that is how they will announce it...I saw an interview with the Producer and he said after the vote, they put the results in a vault and will announce the winner in the fianl, LIVE show...no one knows who won yet.
JAH,
I guess so.
Dim bulb.
She said she was afraid to join the Kuchas, because she feared they would "tell on her" to the K-T-C alliance.
But... why would they tell on her? Why wouldn't they enthusiastically join her?
Tina must have done some amazing diplomacy to convince Elisabeth and Rodger to vote against Amber. Stupid of them to agree. They both survived one additional week. Big whoop. Had they joined Amber and voted against Keith, they'd be on their way to one million dollars.
Maybe, then, the stupidity wasn't Amber's. Maybe it was Elisabeth's and Rodger's.
Maybe Tina was smart and made a pre-emptive diplomatic strike. She goes to them and tells them: "Here's the deal. We're getting rid of Amber. Are you in?"
So they stupidly agree. They don't seek out Amber because they're afraid that, if they do, Amber will "tell on them" and one of them will instead be voted out.
The Prisoner's Dilemma. Amber, Elisabeth, and Rodger were so afraid of being voted out immediately that none of them got together to hash out an alliance that would win them the game.
As we near the finish, the horse race comes down to Judith, Ms. Ivory Tower, Uzmakk and Fielding:
scott -- alicia, rodger, jerri and nick with rodger to win. [Zero. See ya]
pelle -- rodger, nick, amber and jerri with jerri to win. [Zero. See ya]
judith -- Keith, rodger, Elisabeth and Colby with Keith to win. [3 points locked/5 max]
stephanie -- rodger, Elisabeth, alicia, and jeff with rodger to win. [1 point locked/max]
betsifur -- Colby, alicia, rodger and nick with alicia to win. [1 point locked/max]
ms ivory -- Elizabeth, rodger, Colby and nick with Colby to win. [2 points locked/4 max]
uzmakk -- jerri, Colby, roger, and nick with Elisabeth to win. [1 point locked/3 max]
cal --jeff, alicia, Keith, and nick with alicia to win. [1 point locked/max]
fielding -- Elisabeth, jerri, Tina, and jeff with Elisabeth to win. [2 points locked/4 max]
laura -- jerri, Elisabeth, rodger, jeff with rodger to win. [1 point locked/max]
aytchman -- jeff, nick, jerri and rodger with rodger to win. [Zero. The pain is tremendous]
And, in the Ace Hardware Division:
ace -- Keith, Tina, Colby, amber with Colby to win. [If only...]
We'll leave it to you guys to figure out why Uzmakk cannot actually win.
At least they don't have lots of rats in the outback. In the first season, they often showed night vision shots of rats running over the sleeping bodies of the contestants and/or their food supplies.
This week, if Colby doesn't get immumity, he's gone. If Colby gets immunity, Elizabeth is gone...everyone wants to go against Keith in the final two. Their mistake...
Why wouldn't Colby strike a deal with Elizabeth and force a deadlock with Keith (which Colby, I believe, would win)?
If you think Colby's gone, don't you think Colby might think he's gone, too?
You get overly excited about what may or may not happen...I just go with my instinctual feelings. It's no big whoop either way to me; I just like to infuriate you on occassion when I turn out to be right.
though I don't see why you think I'm "infuriated."
Seriously.
I like them accidently, myself...
There was a millenial in this thread.
Honestly, Judith, I don't see why you interpret every disagreement as "fury."
I expressed my opinion in the form of a question. I'm chatting about the show, which is what I imagined the point of this thread to be.
It's not "fury." It's not even "annoyance." It's Survivor, for god's sake.
From now on, I will put (tic) after everything you might misinterpret, okay? (tongue in cheek)
A true definition of hell on earth.
Miss Welty lives in Jackson, Mississippi, has published numerous short stories (including "Why I live at the P.O."), and a couple of novels. She was WPA writer during the Depression, and did some photography work, too.
But ask me how many teaspoons make up a tablespoon and I am fried.
(duck, missing chair)
I was hoping Keith would get the boot, but they stuck the hatchet in poor Elizabeth.
Who's next now? I'm still betting on Keith. Keith will go next. Course, I thought he should have been gone last week, so what do I know?
I think that both Tina and Colby have been decent people and I think that Colby could well win it ( if he doesn't fail at the immunity and Tina and Keith vote him off.) I think that either Tina or Colby can whup Keith.
OTH, I think the viewing audience (who only sees the edited version) would overwhelmingly for Tina. She's a tough cookie. But as Susan the Truck Driver said on the Today Show this morning, "I'm still mad at her for going through Kel's napsack."
Elisabeth has departed and taken her killer smile with her. Professor Lowbrow is pleased to report that she has also taken all interlopers with her. Only poolsters who actually watch the show remain. Profound Significance resides therein.
Final Four Contenders:
judith -- Keith, rodger, Elisabeth and Colby with Keith to win. [3 points locked/5 max]
ms ivory --Elizabeth, rodger, Colby and nick with Colby to win. [2 points locked/4 max]
uzmakk -- jerri, Colby, roger, and nick with Elisabeth to win. [1 point --Buh-bye]
fielding -- Elisabeth, jerri, Tina, and jeff with Elisabeth to win. [2 points -- Buh-bye]
Also-Rans:
scott -- alicia, rodger, jerri and nick with rodger to win. [Zero]
pelle -- rodger, nick, amber and jerri with jerri to win. [Zero]
stephanie -- rodger, Elisabeth, alicia, and jeff with rodger to win. [1 point]
betsifur -- Colby, alicia, rodger and nick with alicia to win. [1 point]
cal -- jeff, alicia, Keith, and nick with alicia to win. [1 point]
laura -- jerri, Elisabeth, rodger, jeff with rodger to win. [1 point]
aytchman -- jeff, nick, jerri and rodger with rodger to win. [Zero. The pain was tremendous]
And, in the Unofficial Nobody-Here-But-Ace Division:
ace -- Keith, Tina, Colby, amber with Colby to win. [If only...]
So who'd getting the boot tomorrow? My guess is Colby if he doesn't win the next immunity challenge, he's gone. Keith would probably rather go up against Tina and Tina would certainly rather go up against Keith.
I hope that the producers figured out it's not exactly fair to base this on physical ability when one has been eating better than the other two.
Another possibility is that Tina and Colby would rather have the other take second place and vote Keith off, but I figure each is going for the big money and know that their best bet is to square off against Keith.
I have no problem with Colby winning everything. He is playing the game, and is incredibly focused on it. Others were just as fit as he, but haven't stayed in as long.
If Colby gets immunity, Tina is toast; if Tina gets immunity, Colbster is toast.
I keep telling y'all that Tina is allied with Keith...and for a reason. She will want to go against him in the final two.
Everyone on the jury was permitted to ask questions. I assume they were permitted to speak. (Why on earth wouldn't they be? Why would you set up a rule to reduce drama and interaction and invective? Makes no sense.)
If Sue Hawk violated the then-rule, I'm sure they've changed the rule since then to allow speeches. Sue Hawk's speech is, I think, the single most famous moment of Suvivor I.
If they had a rule against it then, they were batty. But surely they aren't insane enough to keep the rule in place.
Exactly.
I think that Sue was only told to ask a question, actually. Instead, she made a speech. No one stopped her, but I don't think she was actually asked/authorized to make a speech.
I'm not sure if the old rules permitted a jury speech. I am almost 100% confident the new rules do.
Especially not from this crew. This crew is a little too bland, and there haven't been any backstabbings.
Well, Jerri and Amber got back-stabbed. But they got back-stabbed by each of the finalists, so it's hard to make an impassioned case in favor of one back-stabber over another.
That ought to present a nice contrast to the teams when they squander their food supplies and become gaunt and haggard...they will look just like the locals.
I heard on the radio that Elizabeth clocked in at 80 pounds when she left the game, anyone hear more about this? 80 pounds is starvation skinny....
I'm hoping that Colby makes it through tonight, and that Keith is the one kicked off. I'd like to see Tina and Colby go head to head for the final pick. I think both could be winners depending on how the jury sees their respective game strategies.
Working against Tina could be her behind the scenes schenanigans getting people vote along lines beneficial to her group. Working against Colby is that he's won many challenges and turned against Jerri. I think Amber will vote the way Jerri votes, and so that could be two possibles against him right off the bat.
Working for both of them is that they're likeable and have been easy to get along with for most of the others.
Should be a good show tonight!
Btw, I heard that it's not over yet. Next week they're air some Survivor reunion thing for a two hour show.
Will this gig ever end?
Watch him get great ratings.
And may Colby win.
Maybe it will. But if it doesn't......
My
God!
I don't want to give anything away for those in another time zone, but I was totally shocked by all the twists and turns.....
Second place in the Ace league?
Can you point out the post?
Both by the actual result and the, shall we say, entertaining predictive powers of Das Moat. Nobody, but nobody picked Tina to win. NOBODY.
Only two poolsters even picked Tina for the final four. And one of 'em was in the Truncated Amateur Division.
Oy. I must lie down for a bit.
I'm pleased with the result, but feel that Colby gave it away to her. A very decent act on his part -- seeing that the best two were in the final two -- but it cost him the big bucks.
That said, the final show was B-O-R-I-N-G! I suppose it's a challenge to edit together the actions of 3 or 2 individuals to make for an interesting two hours. And there's something about Bryant Gumble that makes me want to punch him.
Instead of being thought of as a brilliant gamesman this morning, he's seen for the schmuck he really was...arrogant and rather clueless. This shouldn't be seen as him being generous and "allowing" her to win; Jerri was right: Tina was shrewd in getting Colby to pick her over Keith. She definitely Outplayed and Outwitted and Outlasted...
And she will blow through that money in less than a year....
If he is in the finals with Keith, he skates, 6-1, maybe 5-2.
I guess I should have posted "What Juditha said." Sorry.
Hee-hee. What man does?
A three-hour bore.
I shouldn't goat since we own a lot of Viacom stock but, given the opportunity to see THE famous Limbaugh on CNN (a first), we didn't watch II.
It makes sense a woman would win on PC CBS. After all, it's only fair.
So unforgiving.....
I imagine that after 41 days together, people begin to make decisions for different reasons that what we, the armchair smarties, think they should.
I expect Colby simply thought that if he had to lose, losing to Tina was acceptable, and losing to Keith wasn't. I think he believed he had more negatives going into the jury vote then either Tina or Keith, and that Jerri, the unpredictable and really horrid bitch, could influence everyone to vote against him.
But who knows? I thought his choice was cool. I thought this whole show ended up being more interesting then the first Survivor, and more uplifting. These people seemed more humane, more stable, and more like the decent people we hope makes up the majority of the population.
That Colby decided the money wasn't as important as his desire to see Tina make it down to the last was just too cool. He made his own decision wrt who he thought deserved to win more, were he not to take the final prize: Tina or Keith.
Aytchman
We did good, didn't we??!! Hahahahaha
And radio comments this morning don't support the boring hypothesis proposed here, so far.
FU and/or Judith: If sincere, does that make him a bigger "oaf"?
Or, did both Colby and Tina "win"?
I think his reaction was very sincere.
I think he was happy she won. And that doesn't make him an oaf in my book.
Don't try to paint him as the gracious gentleman in all this...he played the game better than anyone up to and including the last half hour. I honestly think he thought he was being nice to Tina in picking her for the hundred grand...he was shocked she won by one vote. Of course, he was gracious in the loss...he has nothing to lose now by putting a spin of graciousness on it.
Okay, so I'm cynical...shoot me.
I also think that Tina played very well considering she didn't win immunity and I don't think had ANY votes cast against her.
I'm surprised at your reaction. You don't think the experience of living in the outback, struggling to win, struggling to survive doesn't change someone? You don't think Colby felt the experience was worth it even if he only won $100,000?
See, I'm an eternal romantic. I want to believe his character overruled his greed. And I don't think this game is only about money, not for lots of the players. I don't think it was only about money for Colby, even though that was his prime motivation.
The guy is a dude from Texas. Winning was more than about the money. That last night at the camp he said that he felt that he was a winner, regardless of how the vote came out, and I think, at that moment, he felt that was true.
Anyway,
I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I personally liked the way this played out. I personally like the idea that even greedy people can be moved to see more than just a money prize after an experience like these people went through. I find that story uplifting.
Toys
And he's not the first dude from Texas to be expertly played by a dame.
We ascribe personality characteristics to them because we've been observing their behavior for more than 12 weeks. Not that this makes us experts at the thing, but we have observed their reactions, their method of coping, their methods of negotiating, and their strength of will.
I'd say that gives some insight into the issue of character and personality.
But I find it interesting that you, and some others, automatically assume that he was taken for a ride by Tina. That he was a sucker.
I choose not to see the dynamics that way.
If it is "cool" to give away $900,000 in a game where you endure hardships for $1,000,000, then I guess it was cool.
It would have ben cooer, though, for Colby to actually win the game and then give Tina a little extra cash.
He got beat by a smarter, tougher, savvier player.
I don't afford him the refuge of benevolence.
I'm just being realistic...he should've realized she was good by how she played backgammon...
A shrug that says "What can you do? He's an idiot."
See, I disagree. The show is about greed, in part, but it's also about being able to do something that is damn hard; that's a once-in-a-lifetime adventure; that forces a person to dig deep into unknown reserves.
In an interview with Rodger I heard, he said that it was never about the money for him, it was about whether he could do it. Marilyn said the exact same thing, she wanted to do it.
So, I guess I disagree with your take about what this game is all about. I think people's motives aren't quite as simple as the one-dimensional greed explanation.
Toys.
Why doesn't this work right for me?
All the kvetching on the part of some of the jury members about manipulation was sour grapes.
The peabrained reporter announced that "Tina the nurse won the million dollars . . . Oh, was that supposed to be a secret?"
Prescient!
ALICIA
RODGER
AMBER
TINA
ELIZABETH
The best Keith could have hoped for would have been NICK.
JERI would have gone for Keith.
So I don't want to hear about Colby's straegizing. He had a million, and a smiling blond crocodile (with the skin to boot) said "Sir, would you please kindly give me $900,000, you fine, strapping buck."
And the dork did.
He got beat.
Hell yeah, she's the better player. Some people respect lions. Great. But lions get hunted and shot.
Cats, on the other hand, have actually worked it so we feed them and we pick up their poop.
At that point, I was in the "Anyone But Colby" camp.
I just didn't realize he'd reward me so handsomely.
SURVIVOR II' FINALE OVERWHELMS ALL COMPETITION ON THURSDAY NIGHT... CBS PULLS A 21.1 RATING/31 SHARE... MORE... LAST 30 MINS: SHOW PULLS 23 SHARE IN NYC, 33 IN L.A., 38 PHILLY, 40 SAN FRAN, 46 SHARE IN SAN DIEGO... NATIONWIDE, 'SURVIVOR' DOUBLED 'FRIENDS' IN AUDIENCE...
And how did Larry King do in the overnights? Hmmmmm?
Cause I didn't think you'd be so cynical.
Btw, the reaction down here in Austin on radio this AM was overwhelmingly positive about Colby's choice of Tina, and his reaction to her winning. I mean, all the young women interviewed were gaga over him.
Couple of commentators suggested he'd be the biggest breakout money maker from this Survivor show, as well. And Jenna, from SurvivorI also suggested the same thing.
Maybe the boy had a fallback strategy, who knows?
I agree with everyone that Tina was the best strategist, if she actually played a strategy from day 1, which I seriously doubt. I think she did begin playing a strategy about a third of the way through, before the merge, but have my doubts about her planning skills prior to that.
I think she was remarkably good, however, at reading the way the wind was blowing, and manuvering quickly to take advangage of any changes.
And lets face it, her alliance with Colby was the key to her winning. Her ability to keep him allied with her to the end was a triumph. No doubt about that.
Why?
Rush was on last night on Larry King Live.
The results have been certified and are now official. We suspect that all of the contestants are also certifiable but that's not important right now.
Deftly snatching victory from the jaws of victory with the baying pack at her heels, Judith came to play, did what she had to do, took it to the next level, played great, showed us what she's made of, came through in the clutch, and four other sports cliches.
With this second victory, she now teeters precariously at the threshold of greatness. If she actually manages to win the Survivor 3 pool (groan), she will undoubtedly be enshrined in some Hall Of Fame or other. Since a third consecutive win is highly unlikely, we haven't bothered to figure out which Hall it would actually be. We hear Leona Helmsley is eager to sponsor something.
Again, felicitous and heartfelt congratulations.
In the utterly unregulated Amateur Division, Ace and Indy both did pretty well but Note This: this division confers No Bragging Rights Whatsoever. None. Bupkis. So let us hear no more of it.
[Professor Lowbrow is a pretty laid-back dude but there must be some standards]
Let's leave the thread up through the weekend. Perhaps we'll wrap it up on Monday.
In terms of plain old entertainment value, rank the following shows:
1. Survivor (both series)
2. Big Brother
3. The Mole
4. Boot Camp
5. Temptation Island.
Think Lethal Weapon, since you've always fancied yourself a Mel Gibson clone.
Aytch: From my certainly unqualified perspective, I'd say Big Brother was the worst and Survivor I the best. Knowing what I now know, that's the only one I'm kind of sorry I missed out watching more of.
Survivor I
Survivor II
Boot Camp
Big Brother
The Mole (didn't watch)
Temptation Island (didn't watch)
Great line. Does it date me to want to change the movie to Rollerball?
It doesn't date you at all. Rollerball is being released in a month.
She and Colby had a deal that whichever of them one the million dollars would buy the other a Harley.
It was mentioned that Colby's reaction to her win was no less enthusiastic than if he had been the winner himself. It was heart-warming to hear them talk about how much they admired one another and the bond that they developed. Certainly they were both competing to win, but unlike the first Survivor it was a friendly competition.
Tina mentioned borrowing another player's pen to write a tiny note to Mad-dog somebody and about how much it meant to her that the pen and ink were leant to her because they were so incredibly valuable.
It's all a sinister plot to addict people to other people's misery.
I suspect you already know it but this particular plot succeeded quite a few years back.
Thank you. Nothing involved but luck.
Is CalGal going to send me a gift certificate? :)
Congratulations to MsIT and Fielding...great competition!
Any final thoughts on the cosmic significance of the Survivor phenomenon or reality shows in general?
Why do some folks get so bent about its success?
Personally, I think Who Wants to Be a Millionaire is a tad more offensive to me because of the ease with which people win, though neither keep me awake at night gnawing holes in my pillow. All things considered, the people on Survivor "earn" their money much more than many other folks. And as for the shenanigans they pull, well, that's not any worse than what most human beings are doing and have been doing for centuries.
Anyone who takes network TV seriously (i.e., worth one iota of serious energy praising or damning) is a little "bent" in my book. Watch it, don't watch it, shut up about it, though--at least in terms of making it a "cause."
Generally, I don't watch it because I think it's crap--and getting worse. Turned it on to see the last 15 minutes of the last Survivor, but otherwise I'm down to DVDs in that realm of entertainment.
Anyone who takes network TV seriously (i.e., worth one iota of serious energy praising or damning) is a little "bent" in my book.
On balance, I agree although I take it seriously to this extent: net TV is a useful (if distorted) mirror for lots of trends running through the society at large. Thus, it's not "serious" itself but may reflect a lot of things that are serious.
My guess is that for most of history, it was art reflecting life because life was so big compared with what art could reach. As they say in Jesus Christ Superstar, "in 4 B.C. Israel had no mass communication." So it was pretty hard for art to have enough impact to affect day-to-day life all that much.
For a while at least in the U.S. maybe that changed as far as network TV when you had the big three dominating everything. Now that it's all splintered again among cable, more networks, the Internet, maybe it's swung back the other way (although the big media players keep consolidating and consolidating).
What impresses me more than anything is the rapidity between waves now. Everything gets used up so fast and is old shortly after it's hot. My opinion: Survivor has already peaked and since it was the hottest of the genre, they'll have to come up with some way of reinventing it or have a bomb on their hands next time.
But then pop culture is something I lost the pulse of about five years ago, so anybody's guess is as good as mine on that one.
In the case of net TV (and probably most media nowadays), the answer is probably "yes". It seems clear to me that TV reflects what's going on and drives it to the (lesser) extent that any new show that catches on may inspire new trends of one kind or another.
I'd disagree that Survivor has peaked, though. Perhaps it has in the sense that it won't repeat the killer ratings of the first run. But, to me, it seems to have captured something in the reality arena. The sense of competition? The human drama (however managed and packaged)? I don't know but they've isolated something the other shows haven't figured out. All of the competition have ranged from mediocre to dreadful.
I fully intend to watch Survivor III, and I expect I'll be just about as good as I have been in picking the winners.....
Hahaha
Thanks Aytchman for hosting this thread, it was a much appreciated weekly fix.
Everything else has been done before - to death - so why not?
I will be watching #III myself and will probably enjoy it; I don't see it as societys downfall but just another reflection of it.
No doubt, we'll renew the assault on civilization from the African continent in the fall.
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