Promotion

Promote the Mote

Hi folks, I asked for this thread because I think we should take advantage of the goodwill surrounding our first anniversary, to try to break out of our ghetto a bit.


One idea that struck me : we can make up a list of our all-time favourite posts, post links to them in the Promotion thread, and people can select a few links to send to friends to encourage them to come and have a read. I'm convinced that one major problem that turns new people away is that they jump into the river, find they don't understand the current discussion (or the discussion just might not be particularly sparkling that day), and have no idea that there is a rich history of posts behind us. If we give people easy access to the best writing, they will be much more likely to feel enthusiastic about the site.

2. alistairconnor - 9/10/2000 7:59:57 PM

Another major way of reaching out to people is to exchange links with other sites. The principle is simple : everyone knows some sites which are visited by interesting people; we put a link to these sites on the Mote (on a new Links page), and they put a link to us.

Irving has had a fair amount of experience and success with this, and I'm hoping he'll give us some pointers on it.

Another thing Irving has become expert on, is search engine registration. This is a fine art, and I hope he'll explain some of the key elements, so that we'll be able to get it right, so that people searching for something like The Mote, will have some chance of finding us.

3. rubberducky - 9/10/2000 8:00:35 PM

(shrug)

seems cliquish to me

singling out posts, for whatever reason, affects things in 2 ways, imo. the person singled out feels pressure (real or imagined) to measure up and everyone else not singled out deal with that in a variety of ways - envy or whatever.

just seems more divisive to me than anything, but hey, maybe i'm wrong.

4. alistairconnor - 9/10/2000 8:02:14 PM

But most important : what we need is people with a bit of time and enthusiasm to work on these subjects. Doesn't matter if you know nothing about it; you'll learn plenty of interesting things in the process. If we pool our knowledge, experience, and time, then we can make our mark on the internet.

So please, register your interest, and your ideas, here.

5. CalGal - 9/10/2000 8:02:23 PM

Alistair, if you exchange "post" for "conversations" that was actually something I did with my archives before we started the Mote and I fell behind. It was often referenced by people. It served as a good intro, I thought.

Problem is that it's a pretty intensive manual task.

6. Cellar Door - 9/10/2000 8:03:25 PM

I do think we should make the sites we provide links to more aware of us.

7. CalGal - 9/10/2000 8:04:23 PM

Wow, things moved quick and I didn't refresh. I was referring to your first post.

And Ducky, I don't think a record of conversations is cliquish. I don't think it has to be considered cliquish for individual posts, either, but I agree that the risk is there.

8. dusty - 9/10/2000 8:14:16 PM

rubberducky

You make a good point. And this point itself has a rich history.
Many sites highlight outstanding posts. TT has posts of the week. (Although I confess I had to go check to see if it still existed, as it has been over a year since I looked at one. Read into that what you will. The Boneyard (UConn Huskies chat) had such a feature that I checked daily, but they've stopped it.
And yes, the site which will not be named had such a feature, and it was controversial. (I believe Irv may have even played a part in it; my apologies to Irv if my recollection is faulty.)

The downside is the pressure, the cliquishness, and the potential for not being even-handed. (not to mention the work.)

The plus side is that it could help us put our "best-foot forward". I've referred people to this site on several occasions, only to have to lamely claim that they caught us at a bad moment. It might be nice to be able to point to a "best of" section.

I'm mulling over some related thoughts. If they gel, I'll comment further.

9. alistairconnor - 9/10/2000 8:16:23 PM

What I'm talking about here is not exactly compiling pages of the most interesting stuff, but simply creating links : for example, Hashké's poem of the other day : Message # 2302 in thread 36 or Adrianne's holiday story Message # 2667 in thread 11, or some really funny stuff that Ace and Cart said to each other (I miss most of that, which is a pity) -- whatever anyone thinks is worthy of interest, and likely to spark participation. Anyone can post links here in this thread, like I just did, and everyone interested in doing a bit of promotion can go through their address book and send, not snippets, but links to their friends, family and whoever.

10. rubberducky - 9/10/2000 8:16:32 PM

i disagree, CG

people will point more to posts by a select set of posters than others. people will feel left out for whatever reason.

but, whatever, it's not a huge thing for me. just pointing it out.

11. CalGal - 9/10/2000 8:18:50 PM

Ducky,

I was agreeing with you. So what are you disagreeing with?

I don't think that conversations have the problem of being cliquish. You're just copying conversations on issues. I think that might be a good way to start people off.

12. dusty - 9/10/2000 8:54:11 PM

I'd like to bat around how we might keep a list of active members. Spartan just posted in Politics. I don't recall seeing the name before. If Spartan is new, it would help our promotion efforts to welcome Spartan properly to the site. However, my presence here has been spotty over the last few months, and for all I know, Spartan is a long-time, vibrant contributor to this forum. It would look a tad foolish to welcome a long-time participant.

If we had a web page, listing active members alphabetically, (with a bit more info) it would be possible to figure out whether someone is really new, or just new to me.

The additional info is the sticking point. If the site is updated automatically, and just adds the persons name when registering, checking the site would never identify someone as new. Post counts would tell the story, but might encourage competition or other negative behavior.
Perhaps date first registered?

I'm interested in feedback from anyone, but especially from AC, in terms of what might constitute the easiest way to identify the additions to our ranks.

13. PelleNilsson - 9/11/2000 1:00:32 AM

May I remind you that we have the Mote collection of short stories. It is linked in Stories.

14. CalGal - 9/11/2000 1:24:49 AM

Yes, that too. Also MoteMovies, for that matter.

15. Dusty - 9/11/2000 8:22:00 AM

PelleNilsson
Thanks for the reminder. I sort of knew about it, but hadn't ever checked it out, so your reminder gave me an excuse to check it out.

On the positive side, that link is a perfect example of what I was proposing. so maybe we just need to use it as a model.

On a less positive side, the first collection I clicked was the Sci-Fi collection. Each of the links brought me to a "Whoops! We can't find your page!" page. Showdown at the Castellan created an error for me. Others seem to work OK.

Looks like you have done a lot of work on this Pelle, thanks.

16. alistairconnor - 9/11/2000 8:40:38 AM

Pelle, Cal :

Please don't be offended; I am neither ignoring nor denigrating your approach of compiling significant extracts of the best bits. However, what I am proposing is not the same thing, and it doesn't address the same purpose. The collected material on your pages stands on its own merits; its relationship to the site, once taken out of its original context, is actually quite tenuous.

Another example : Someone who reads Pseudoerasmus's travel stories, as first published on the Mote, will react to them differently according to where they read them. If on Pseud's personal pages, the reaction might be : "My, how interesting. What a clever fellow". If on the Mote, the reaction is more likely: "What a fascinating site! And I can be part of this, I just have to click on this link..."

17. CalGal - 9/11/2000 10:03:44 AM

Alistair, I was suggesting that we do make it part of the site. It has always been an intensely manual task, which is why I stopped doing it--except for the Movies site.

But if we had a tool that certain people could use to "tag" posts with a particular id, the archiving would be easy. Then it's just a matter of presentation.

I agree that "best posts" isn't the same as what Pelle and I are talking about. But I think that Ducky is correct about how a "best post" are could be perceived, and I also don't think that single posts, taken out of context, will do much to sell the place.

18. PelleNilsson - 9/11/2000 11:41:28 AM

Alistair

Give us a few examplea so we get a better undertanding of your idea.

19. alistairconnor - 9/11/2000 2:59:03 PM

I gave two examples in post # 9 ; is it really so hard to understand? Try to remember some interesting stuff you read recently, and link to it ( < msg=999 thread=111 > ) - add an explanatory paragraph if necessary to put it in context, and let people judge for themselves.

I'm suggesting this as a one-off promotional device so that people can e-mail their friends and acquaintances, ideally with a personalised selection of links to suit the taste of the recipient.

The News function ought to be providing much the same thing on an on-going basis, for the people who already know the site.

20. alistairconnor - 9/11/2000 3:16:26 PM

But I think that Ducky is correct about how a "best post" are could be perceived

My my, is this a bad case of Tall Poppy Syndrome or what? Personally, I keep coming back to this site because there are people who express interesting ideas and who write well. There are other reasons, but that's the main one.

And someone said in the Anniversary thread that they had had the experience of sending someone to look at the site, the person had been unimpressed, and they had apologised saying that it was a bad day... I know that's happened to me too. And let's be brutally honest, there are plenty of days where nothing really outstanding gets said, at least nothing decipherable by a complete outsider.

By placing links to particular posts -- and I repeat that the posts will show up in their context, not in glorious isolation - (just click on one of the links in Message # 9 for godsake) --people can get a better idea of how the dynamics of the site, and of how good the results can -- sometimes -- be.

21. alistairconnor - 9/11/2000 3:20:16 PM

(but after all, if no-one understands or likes the links idea then just forget I ever mentioned it; and let's get on with some other ideas.)

22. alistairconnor - 9/11/2000 3:21:07 PM

Reposted from the anniversary thread :

208. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/8/00 9:09:47 AM
Cal:
One other question--there seem to be services that provide more traffic for (gack) money. Are these fairly successful? If they are, and they aren't too expensive.....well, we do have our startup fund.

No, Cal, they are a rip off. They only offer what we can get for free from others... registering with search engines, key words, and link exchanges. They play on the ignorance and laziness of the average net user.

I suppose I'm becoming somewhat of an expert on these things, as I'm one of those rare characters who makes a very good living off a highly-profitable dot com business.


210. CalGal - 9/8/00 9:20:02 AM
Irv,

Oh, on cursory examination they seemed different from the automatic registering tools. They were a monthly fee thang.

I found two sites that seemed interesting as a resource for me to read--when you have time, could you give a cursory inspection and see if they seem worth it?

Listbot, free forum for website owners, discussing marketing, promotion, etc.

Selfpromotion.com, a how to site as well as a freebie search engine application automator. But he excludes Yahoo from his list of search engines, because he thinks that the Yahoo application should be very carefully created.

23. alistairconnor - 9/11/2000 3:21:26 PM

215. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/8/00 9:52:24 AM
Cal:
The monthly fee thing is a scam. Occasionally, you need to resubmit to a search engine... but most submissions I made nearly two years ago are maintaining their top positions. The whole idea of checking monthly to make sure the ranking is up there and charging a fee for that is a joke.

I definitely don't recommend automated submissions. It takes a little more time, but submissions should be made manually, and tailored for each search engine's strengths. It is also important to get it right the first time (with all the keywords in the right place) since replacng a submission can be impossible. So we shouldn't run off and start submitting things to search engines.

The Listbot site sounds good. My connection is so slow right now I can't look at any sites. Two other similar sites I highly recommend (especially the first) are:

Add Me -- a great newsletter, well worth the free price of subscription



Market Position Newsletter

24. RickNelson - 9/11/2000 3:39:49 PM

Did anyone catch Pseud in TT saying he isn't going to frequent the Mote any longer. I know that message exists, from about two weeks ago.

Also, if the Mote staff could find a bit of time to take up consideration of myself hosting the Poetry thread. Blaise has been absent for months.

25. JudithAtHome - 9/11/2000 6:11:40 PM

CalGal:

Thanks for linking in TT for me....well, for the Mote, actually.

26. CalGal - 9/11/2000 6:57:59 PM

I have a feeling it was the PLF himself. But you're welcome.

27. JudithAtHome - 9/11/2000 7:20:56 PM

What is PLF....Puling Little F.......oh never mind.

28. CalGal - 9/11/2000 11:05:23 PM

Alistair,

In combo with, or separate from, the pick a post option, what about adding another field to the post table that allows someone (maybe the thread host) to tag a post as part of a series?

Refer to the recent conversation in Slow Thread. Suppose mintcar (or someone else) used the admin tool to tag each post in the conversation as "gifted ed", with the description of "Should Public Schools be Responsible for Challenging Gifted Children?"

The category could be created at the beginning, or after it was over--and obviously, conversations could be added to, even if they were picked up some days (or weeks) later.

Then we could build a page that does nothing but list the conversations by thread. This would be an excellent place for people to check out what we are really about, I think.

Then we could create a separate page that does nothing but list all the conversations.

29. PelleNilsson - 9/12/2000 1:27:29 AM

Dusty

I have fixed the links in the SciFi collection. I cannot reproduce the error for Showdown at the Castellan. What kind of error was it?

30. vonKreedon - 9/12/2000 1:46:31 AM

Cal - That is a brilliant idea!

31. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/12/2000 1:53:42 AM

Good idea, Cal.

32. alistairconnor - 9/12/2000 3:15:06 AM

My first reaction, Cal, is that it would be a bit labour-intensive, but since the whole point is to single out conversations that are worth the effort, then I say, great, let's do it!

So what we end up with is a new "Conversations" page, which is similar to the thread list, but each link gives you a Conversation page, which is a subset of a thread, containing only posts tagged for that conversation.

So, (thinking aloud) when someone posts to a conversation page, the post goes to both the conversation and the thread? And when posting to a thread, you can choose to attach it to a running conversation? That's getting a bit complicated.

33. alistairconnor - 9/12/2000 3:20:50 AM

Alternatively, a Conversation page is read-only, but that would be frustrating.


So we need :
- Maintenance screen for creating a conversation (always attached to a thread)
- Screen for flagging existing posts as belonging to a conversation
These two screens accessible to the thread moderator and overall moderators

- In the thread sidebar, links to existing conversations
- In each post which belongs to a conversation, a link to that conversation
- A conversations index page.


What do you think, Pelle? Sounds like a Better Sub-thread to me.

34. CalGal - 9/12/2000 8:57:04 AM

Alistair,

So, (thinking aloud) when someone posts to a conversation page, the post goes to both the conversation and the thread?

Don't make it too complicated. The post isn't tagged by the user--so a post is a post is a post. There is no "conversation" table.

Yes, the conversation page is read only. It's not a replacement for a thread, just a different arrangement of some posts in a thread.

35. CalGal - 9/12/2000 9:03:54 AM

So here is a sample of posts in a thread...

36. CalGal - 9/12/2000 9:08:47 AM

Then someone comes along after the fact--and it could be a long time after the fact--and tags a conversation.

37. CalGal - 9/12/2000 9:14:47 AM

So no conversation exists until

• a tag is defined
• posts are tagged
• the conversation is placed on the "conversations" page.

38. Dusty - 9/12/2000 9:17:01 AM

The tagging idea sounds like a great one. Effectively, it creates the opportunity to generate a filter for a thread.

39. Dusty - 9/12/2000 9:21:13 AM

PelleNilsson

I have fixed the links in the SciFi collection.
Thanks
I cannot reproduce the error for Showdown at the Castellan.
I'm not getting an error now either. If it happens again, I'll try to save some details.

40. CalGal - 9/12/2000 9:24:12 AM

I'm not sure how much hassle it is to add a new field to a table. But if it's not, the nice bit about this is that we could go back through existing threads and create conversations of the best Mote offerings.

41. alistairconnor - 9/12/2000 3:56:30 PM

I've done about half of the work for this conversations thing... I'm just wondering whether to finish it or go to bed...

42. PelleNilsson - 9/12/2000 4:02:58 PM

By your standards it's still early, alistair.

43. RosettaStone - 9/12/2000 6:03:38 PM

I know what you're trying to do with the front page but the headlines are too small and the subheads need a consistent look. Meaning the first word should be capitalized.

The career thread has much too much copy. Cut it in half.

44. ChristinO - 9/12/2000 6:08:49 PM

Great idea on bulleting conversations!!!

It's a big task but I'd be happy to pitch in and do back reading in threads to bullet posts. I don't forsee any great number of these coming out of the Cafe so point me toward some other thread and set me loose.

45. CalGal - 9/12/2000 6:09:55 PM

Yes, I think it would be nice if it were an admin function open to interested parties. I don't know if that will screw up the work Alistair's doing, though.

46. ChristinO - 9/12/2000 6:43:37 PM

There's always the old fashioned cut and paste solution.


Ack!

47. CalGal - 9/15/2000 8:31:14 PM

We got an interesting assessment today in TT:

Had a look at the mote, but its interface was too unwieldy for me to stay long. Even feed magazine's loop is easier to navigate, and it's a blind headache half the time. But excellent posts, six or eight people writing intelligent, witty, interesting commentary, discussion and conversation. Like if posts of the week were all that salon's discussions consisted of. ;D I recommend any mote-goer or salon-frequenter hit the loop. Straight no chaser excellence almost daily.

I asked about the interface problems, which was an odd complaint (for us) and got this answer:

Interface looks like cafe utne's, which I also tried and found wanting interface-wise. Utne had some interesting discussions, but sorting through the mountains of posts is just a pain. 40000 of something means time to archive/toss some of that shiz. Salon has certain content issues in its fora that aren't so cool, but they do a solid job of weeding out excessively long threads (excepting conversational ones, such as this one). Getting to the threads is tricky, but they're short enough threads that once one gets to them, reading joy ensues and whatnot. Mote's an ok concept, but execution is--heh. Anyway.

Anyway. I'm not sure what the problem is, but there was nice stuff, too!

48. ChristinO - 9/15/2000 9:20:09 PM

I think because of the vast number of brand new threads created at TT all the time it is more common to find one's self at the beginning of a thread. If one were to come here and try to read all of politics to attempt to "catch up" it would take days to get through all the posts.

That's just a difference between them and us.


Personally I like that we don't have 92 threads on the same topic with minute variations. It helps us to sustain more comprehensive discussions PLUS the fact that we get more participants per topic rather than having three people in each of five threads posting desultorially over the course of six months.

I can see how it would take some getting used to for a long time TTer, though.

49. CalGal - 9/15/2000 9:22:45 PM

Yes, exactly. I said that to her, in fact--that we didn't really expect you to go to the beginning of the thread and read up.

50. ChristinO - 9/15/2000 9:29:20 PM

CG,

Where did she write her assessment?

51. CalGal - 9/15/2000 9:33:18 PM

Over in the Mote Cafe at TT.

52. ChristinO - 9/15/2000 9:37:54 PM

Where is that? Internet stuff? I haven't been over there in so long I'd never find it.

53. CalGal - 9/15/2000 9:39:32 PM

Oh, It's Technology and the Net. It's pretty high up, easy to find. But promise me you won't crucify her! (g)

54. ChristinO - 9/15/2000 9:42:33 PM

Oh, I wouldn't do that. We want people to come and play with us not spit on us, right?

55. angel-five - 9/15/2000 10:46:29 PM

Actually, archiving isn't that terrible of an idea.

I do like one TT idea -- well, I like taglines and edit, too, but I like the idea of each poster having a personal file available to anyone who wants to look it up, with the amount of data in the personal file up to the poster in question. TT is a huge and sprawling place that can get pretty hard to keep track of but the personal files sort of ameliorated that effect and let each discussion get a little less impersonal.

For a long time, as far as I was concerned, the ideal forum was one where social stuff didn't appear and everything was pure debate. And that pretty much is still the ideal for me, but it's really not achievable when you have a core group of participants in the forum --humans are social beasts. And the Mote crowd is pretty special -- debating issues is a lot of fun, but the reason I keep coming back here is that I like most of you people.

So what's one of the most common complaints about a forum like this? It's too cliquish -- which is of course true, but once again I think that's unavoidable, it's like living in a small town. The 'clique' problem is most pressing to new people, for obvious reasons -- they feel like an outsider, which of course they are at first. One of the ways to overcome that feeling is to have pfiles around where you can look up someone after you're read what they have to say. You don't get into the inner loops just by doing that, but the knowledge lets you be a little more comfortable in entering a conversation.

What should be in a pfile? Well, anything the person wants, I suppose --ranging from nothing at all to a complete description, including trite but useful answers to icebreaker questions, or just a hotmail account and areas of interest.

It might be one way of retaining newbies, and IAC is just a thought.

56. alistairconnor - 9/16/2000 3:43:31 AM

Two very good points:

- It's hard for a newcomer to get a hold of what's going on in any particular thread. The comments about the user interface being unwieldy in Message # 47 turned out to be about that problem. I think the Conversations feature, if maintained, will go a long way to dealing with that.

- the "pfile" thing. I'm starting to understand better how it can function as an icebreaker thing - although personally I prefer to get to know people gradually and naturally, rather than having them "in my face" straight away. (Possibly this is because I'm not American. According to the cliché, within half an hour of takeoff you know your American neighbour's life story... personally, within an hour I'm generally looking around nervously for the emergency exit...)

57. alistairconnor - 9/16/2000 3:45:59 AM

Another thing : all the archives (deleted threads) are still in the database - I haven't got around to doing any purges - and it would be easy enough to put up an "Archives" page to give access to these threads, in read-only mode. Is there any interest in this idea?

Ideally the archive threads would be searchable - perhaps the live ones too? - I'll try to work out how difficult that would be to implement.

58. CalGal - 9/16/2000 3:49:51 AM

You once mentioned the possibility of converting posts into flat html files?

59. alistairconnor - 9/16/2000 4:09:22 AM

Yes, but there would be a certain amount of programming work in that, whereas publishing the archives straight out of the database would be quite trivial.

Would you like to do a design for the Conversations and the Archives pages? And the News page too ? The easiest would be to do an HTML mock-up, then I could write the code.

The alternative, which is for me to implement a non-designed ASP page, and then for you to mess with it to get it looking good, is a lot more labour-intensive for both of us.

60. CalGal - 9/16/2000 4:14:53 AM

Is the conversation code implemented on the development server?

61. labwabbit - 9/16/2000 5:39:31 PM

Everybody's in-to a brand new trance noooow..

C'mon geeksters ... do the mote-promotion,

Surfin' in is easy...if you give it a chance noooww...

C'mon Geeksters do the mote-promotion,

You needn't have a death-wish, just a gripe or two...

If your feelin' orn'ry we will welcome you,

So c'mon-c'mon do the mote-promotion with me....

C'mon baby
Do the mote-promotion
C'mon baby
Do the mote-promotion
C'mon baby do the mote....

62. CalGal - 9/16/2000 5:48:05 PM

Alistair, I can't find the conversation feature on the dev server. Is it there, and if so, where?

64. vonKreedon - 9/16/2000 7:06:29 PM

Cwazy Wabbit. That is quite a good version of the song.

65. labwabbit - 9/16/2000 7:13:50 PM

vonK
Thank vewwy, vewwy much.

Winding the day away...and feeling a bit silly indeed.

66. alistairconnor - 9/17/2000 11:08:20 AM

Sorry, Cal, I should have done that first.
I've put all the new stuff on the dev site now. I had to rename a couple of the files to avoid overwriting your work.

I've renamed the following files on the Dev site by adding a.cal extension :
viewthread.pm
listthreads.asp
ViewThread.asp

67. alistairconnor - 9/17/2000 11:20:51 AM

The following file is new: ViewConversation.asp

I have also implemented an Archive feature : A thread which is no longer listed on the home page can have its Archive attribute checked in Thread maintenance, in which case it will be listed on the archive page, of which I've done a provisional version, which could do with some design : listarchives.asp

If the Mote moderators would care to have a look at the old threads and select candidates for the archive page, then we could make it live as soon as we've got a final design.

Unfortunately, a certain number of threads have been deleted, rather than just taken off the front page. The posts are all still there, but the thread record is not. What I propose to do is to reconstruct these thread records, so that the moderators can choose whether to list them in the archive page or not.

68. alistairconnor - 9/17/2000 11:29:12 AM

Another thing : I've separated the News and Conversation maintenance from the Thread maintenance - there's a new Maintain option, "Thread services", which gives access to these two features for all threads, for anyone who can access Maintenance (i.e. all thread hosts, moderators and gatekeeper).

So, all thread hosts are invited to add News and Conversations for any threads, not just their own threads. I hope that this will get these features off the ground.

Go to it, people!

69. rubberducky - 9/17/2000 5:43:12 PM

Re: Message # 47, CalGal.

well, i think the sheer number of posts can be a problem. i'd like it if i could, as Politics host, archive the posts and start over. i thought about asking for a new thread as a way of starting the count over.

anyway, just my 2 cents.

70. rubberducky - 9/19/2000 4:30:51 PM

well

that was well received

anyway, what about labeling "Hot" threads? i must admit i checked those threads out if one was all of a sudden generating more traffic in the old Fray.

thoughts?

71. CalGal - 9/19/2000 4:31:52 PM

I had agreed with your thoughts on archiving, actually. I dunno about "hot", but I don't feel strongly about it either way.

72. rubberducky - 9/20/2000 10:39:41 AM

why isn't there a link to theMote archives as there is with Fray archives?

73. PsychProf - 9/20/2000 11:19:54 AM

I placed a blurb for us at the Netscape Open Directory Site...hope I an not duplicating that done by others, but it can't hurt, no?



"Your site submission has been received.

An editor will review your submission for inclusion in the directory.

Once your site has been accepted into the Open Directory, it may take anywhere
from 2 weeks to several months for your site to be listed on partner sites which use
the Open Directory data, such as AOL Search, AltaVista, HotBot, Google, Lycos,
Netscape Search, etc. We make updates of the data available weekly, but each
partner has their own update schedule."

74. alistairconnor - 9/20/2000 4:27:48 PM

Ducky, it's sort of still in development. The archive page itself probably needs a bit of design or content, and the actual threads listed in it need to be checked by the moderators before it's official.

75. alistairconnor - 9/20/2000 4:30:14 PM

That's mighty good of you, PP... I can't see how it can hurt. According to Irv, the problem with that sort of listing is that it's very difficult to change once it's done, and he suggested that we consult on techniques before doing it -I'm hoping he will expand on that.

76. PsychProf - 9/20/2000 4:31:49 PM

OH OH...did I blow it?

77. ChristinO - 9/20/2000 5:03:38 PM

Alistair,

I've got no problem with keeping everything as an archive as long as we have the space ---no complaints from me about what is included. I like the idea of keeping the date of the thread and number of posts, but I think it would be better to drop the name of the "most recent poster" if that's not too big a deal.

On closer inspection I notice that a couple of those threads are really pretty short----less than 500 posts. Might they not be included as Conversations rather than Archives? What's your take on the difference? I see Conversations as smaller parts of large threads, but if an entire thread is only 13 posts long then it seems not inappropriate to call it a conversation.

78. Nostradamus - 9/24/2000 12:36:19 PM

Okay, I still think this thread needs to be RIPed, but I'll throw this one out just for fun.

We all went to high school, right?

We all have alumni associations, right?

What we need to do is have the Mote 'host' online class reunions. If a few dozen people show up and a handful stay, it will be quite worthwhile, no?

79. PsychProf - 9/24/2000 12:51:52 PM

We talk too much about doing somethin. Anybody just do anything...what the hell, this is not brain surgery or chapter 11.

80. dusty - 9/24/2000 3:43:41 PM

PsychProf

Discussing ideas but never taking action is a bad course.

But actions taken without consensus can also be a bad idea.

What's wrong with batting ideas around, and then executing any with no downsides, and taking through a bit more those with potential downsides?

81. joezan - 9/25/2000 12:44:55 AM

You know what?

Here's Nostradamus, back with his same old 'tude, his same old schtick, his same old whining about how he was done wrong all the other times he was here. And all those other times he was here, what did he do? He spammed, invited his juvenile delinquent friends to help him spam, he spammed some more - and was rewarded with a thread of his own.

He means this place no good, and whoever believes he has changed his spots is an idiot.

Whoever indulges him is a bigger idiot.

IGNORE HIM, and he will go away.

82. Nostradamus - 9/25/2000 12:57:04 AM

Joe

Is that an apology for calling me a liar and later finding out I was telling the truth all along?

If so, I accept. But you need to work on the wording.

Cal made some distorted accusations. I responded to them. I'm not whining about anything. Grow up, will you?

83. PsychProf - 9/25/2000 7:51:46 AM

Dusty...of course.

84. CalGal - 9/27/2000 11:32:24 AM

I started using the conversation function. It's awesome. I will soon be revamping the page so it's not a complete duplicate of the viewthreads list.

Here is a sample: a conversation on the movie 12 Angry Men

Looking for input on format. I strongly recommend all thread hosts to check it out. You can create a conversation for any thread.

85. rubberducky - 9/27/2000 12:57:16 PM

that is cool

86. RosettaStone - 9/29/2000 1:18:33 PM

You have a golden opportunity to promote the mote in TT (before it goes under).

Right now, that web site is a big negative because no one posts in it other than cazart and those who engage him/her.

Terrible decision banning cazart and Nost because they just use that site to badmouth mote.

You should have a committee to do promotion (I will be on it if CalCal approves) and use that thread to do PR.

Stop talking about it here and go there.

87. dusty - 9/29/2000 8:19:12 PM

The conversation feature is very cool. This has great potential, not only for creating coherent conversations for our own use, but to highlight "best-of" conversations to show to new and prospective moties.

I just threw together another example, including a discussion Pelle and I had about German mortality around the turn of the last century:

Mortality discussion

On one hand, this isn't a perfect example, as the subject matter is excrutiatingly boring to most. On the other hand, here is a conversation comprising only nine posts but scattered over a range of more than 300 posts. It would not be easy for anyone with the interest to reconstruct this conversation from the original thread.

88. dusty - 9/29/2000 8:26:24 PM

Even more exciting (even if it is obvious), the conversation can be used as a link anywhere. Instead of telling someone to log onto the mote, go to such-and-such a thread, go to a post number, then start reading, but ignore the posts by RS, and skip over the chit-chat posts and, oh never mind, there's a meltdown in progress, you can deliver a link to a discussion containing only on-topic posts.

89. CalGal - 9/29/2000 8:29:26 PM

Exactly. I finally finished a requirements doc I was working on, so I hope to have time over the weekend to finish any mods to the thread page and create a conversation page.

Any suggestions for format, Dusty?

90. dusty - 9/29/2000 8:40:55 PM

Only vague ideas.

I'm thinking there should be sections:
e.g. a movie section and a political section. The sections will relate to threads, but not a one-to-one relationship.

Within the section would be a Conversation name, and a short snappy paragraph, highlighting the contents of the conversation. Some might not need a description, for example, if you use the feature to pull together discussion of movies, it should be obvious. But my "Mortality Discussion" needs a bit more explanation (OK, maybe nothing can make it interesting, but you get my point).

So far, I'm imaging a word based page. I'd like to incorporate graphical elements, but I haven't figured out how.

91. RosettaStone - 9/30/2000 7:59:38 AM

When dusty and CalCal are fantasizing together about picking "the nine perfect posts scattered among the more than 300" on any given topic to highlight, one always knows who's the moaner and who want to be on top.

A far better promotional device would be for dusty to encourage everyone going to TT's "mote cafe" thread in its technology and the net folder to learn how to hotlink mote from there so that TT newbies interested in the discussion can immediately to a Star Trek and move from spaceship to another. Give me the code and I'll do it today.

92. RosettaStone - 9/30/2000 8:01:04 AM

...do a Star Trek...

93. JudithAtHome - 9/30/2000 9:18:41 AM

Rosetta:

For once I agree with you and think some of the things you've been saying over there have been thoughtful and well said. I think your idea is a good one but for the fact Cazart will carp and moan every other post. For instance, if I say anything in there, I get blasted rudely by him/her/it and while in the past I've taken the bait (how do like my fish anologies, caz?) for the past few days I've resisted the urge to say anything in that thread because I'm tired of those histrionics.

If we all went over there and talked about the Mote and didn't respond AT ALL to Cazart, he would be made to look like the spoil sport he/she/it really is.....but I fear it is almost impossible to withstand responding; it's like an accident: you just have to stop and try to help.

94. RosettaStone - 9/30/2000 10:34:45 AM

Don't get me wrong, Judith, I agree with Cazart's analysis about some of the people here.

Or, at least, about one of them.

Not, of course, his paranoia of being threatened-with-death stuff. But who runs things.

The bottomline for me is that those who created the software/site and keep it running are ones who control the thread selection and hosting responsibilities.

Since detective Lizzy Nolan searches for me daily at TT, I have to use different IDs in our thread but I will continue to promote mote as much as possible. The Mote Cafe is an unique opportunity to encourage some of them to taste this board.

95. dusty - 9/30/2000 10:53:16 AM

RosettaStone

When dusty and CalCal are fantasizing together about picking "the nine perfect posts scattered among the more than 300" on any given topic to highlight, one always knows who's the moaner and who want to be on top.
There has been some discussion of selecting "best of" posts. I think it has some promise, but it received enough negative comments that it was dropped. (I think). In any event, the concept we were discussing is different. Please check back, and if you still don't understand, I'll explain it to me.

As to the code, it is easy, has been explained several times and places, and is even documented on the Mote. But I disagree that it is a wise course of action to simply provide a hot link to this place in that thread. I think it is appropriate to link in a relevant conversation in a thread discussing a particular topic, but I don't think spamming TT with links to the Mote is a good idea.

96. alistairconnor - 9/30/2000 11:10:33 AM

The bottomline for me is that those who created the software/site and keep it running are ones who control the thread selection and hosting responsibilities.

Let's get this straight once and for all, Stone. I am the one who created the software/site and keeps it running. I have about as much influence over thread selection and hosting as Calgal does, that is to say, not very much. She and I are among the half dozen people who co-opt moderators; but it is the moderators who make the decisions about thread selection and hosting.

97. alistairconnor - 9/30/2000 11:12:50 AM

If the tall-poppy syndrome prevents us from calling the conversations a "best-of", well, that's fine by me. And if anyone wants to put together a conversation composed of boring, mediocre, poorly-written posts, that's fine by me too.

98. dusty - 9/30/2000 11:13:21 AM

alistairconnor

BTW, nice job on the Conversation feature. I'm impressed at how nicely it works, and how quickly you created it.

99. alistairconnor - 9/30/2000 11:15:43 AM

Stone, your idea about a Promotion committee is a very good one. I think you ought to be appointed convenor... No, I hereby appoint you convenor, since it's me who pulls all the strings behind the scenes, don't y'know.

I'm sure you've done more to promote the mote than anyone else, and there's plenty more to do... But I think you should try different approaches rather than just abducting aliens from other planets.

100. alistairconnor - 9/30/2000 11:17:31 AM

I'm sure it can be improved, Dusty. Your ideas about grouping conversations are good, but um, too much work... I think attaching them to threads is good enough. But you're right that each conversation needs an explanatory paragraph. Do you think it should go on the index page, or on the conversation page itself?

101. dusty - 9/30/2000 11:20:41 AM

alistairconnor

FTR, I support the "best-of" approach. (And I love the "tall-poppy" expression. I've got to start working that into my writing.)

A technical question(If this is too far off-topic, respond in Technical): How is the conversation number generated? I was surprised to see that CG's # was 767, and mine was 787. No big deal, just curious.

102. dusty - 9/30/2000 11:36:02 AM

I'm thinking that we should have a separate conversation page. There would be a link from the main page, probably centered, just above the Discussion Thread text.

My first thought was to call it Past Discussions, but now I think that is a bad idea. That makes it sound like an archive (OK, it sort of is, but bear with me). I'd like the description to be attractive enough that a new visitor would be tempted to click on it. It would bring you to a page with links to several discussions. these discussion would cover a range of topics, and the visitor could click on a subject of interest to get a flavor of the types of discussion in this place.

In some cases it would be a discussion that was "over" although if the person was interested, they could go to the relevant thread and revive the discussion (as long as it wasn't a "retired" thread.) In some cases it might be an active, ongoing discussion.

I'm rambling now, but it occurs to me that we should have three categories of discussions:

• Active
  
• Stale(find better word)
  
• Retired
  

• Active, of course, means that the subject is still being discussed, and the reader is encouraged to jump in.
  
• A stale discussion is one that seems to have played out, but is in an active thread. In that case, the reader can add posts to the relevant thread, but should be aware that the discussion isn't active, and Moties may be more engaged in a different subject.
  
• A retired discussion is one contained in a thread that has been retired. One cannot simply go to the thread, because it isn't loaded. However, we could suggest to the reader an appropriate thread if they'd like to add thoughts.
  

103. dusty - 9/30/2000 11:44:45 AM

alistairconnor

When you say grouping is hard, I must not have expressed my idea correctly.

Again, I am imagining a separate page for all conversations, not a link to each conversation from the home page, or even from each thread page.

On this conversation page, I see a section for Politics and current events.
Conversations from the Political, Current Events, WWII, RU-486 threads would be listed in this section (as an aside, narrow topic threads such as RU-486 may be a conversation almost by definition, so the concept may not be needed)

Another section (searching for a title) might contain conversations from Home and garden, Sports, and perhaps the Cafe.

Another section (Arts?) would contain conversations form Books, Poetry, Movies, etc.

I'm simply trying to create four or five broad groupings to correspond to broad areas of interest of visitors.

(Sort of along the lines of Amazon's, "customers who bought this book are also buying these books...")

104. dusty - 9/30/2000 11:55:14 AM

A better concept for the link to this page is

105. CalGal - 9/30/2000 12:04:57 PM

I like the Sampler concept, and I think a description field is an excellent idea.

106. PelleNilsson - 9/30/2000 2:15:18 PM

I'm ashamed to say that I haven't checked out the Conversation feature yet. Tell me, is it possible to garner posts from different threads together? I'm thinking of a discussion on nazism vs comunism which played itself out in both WWII and the Slow Thread. Maybe there were some posts in International too.

107. dusty - 9/30/2000 2:49:10 PM

PelleNilsson

It doesn't look like you can include posts from more than one thread. I briefly thought about how to do that, and it seems like a bit of trouble. Not to mention the fact that the posts did't go together at the time, so it might leave an incorrect impression, even if there is a way to sort them by date.

OTTOMH, a better approach would be to create three conversations, and then introduce them something like the Following:

Nazism vs Communism

• Nazism vs Communism - WWII thread
  
• Nazism vs Communism - Slow thread
  
• Nazism vs Communism - International thread
  

108. alistairconnor - 9/30/2000 6:00:30 PM

OK, I get the picture... What I need to do is create a super-phylum above Conversations (called Themes or something). Each Conversation would be attached to one and only one Theme. The Conversation construction stays as is. Both the Theme and the Conversation need an introductory paragraph.

I can build that.

Now we need the design for the viewing interface. If we follow your example above, Dusty, the Theme intro goes on the Index page; do we put a Conversation intro on the Conversation page, or is it unnecessary?

Of course, we could leave the existing index by thread in addition to the index by Theme. I like lots of redundancy in an interface.

109. CalGal - 9/30/2000 6:05:35 PM

I don't think that the theme tag should be required, though. Optional. Will that work?

110. dusty - 9/30/2000 6:14:12 PM

alistairconnor

I hadn't though of it as a super-phylum. That might work, but entails more work on your part. I think you are envisioning making it automatic, which might be a good thing, but wasn't at all what I envisioned.

I was thinking less automatic, and more manual.

A person would create a conversation, and then look at the conversation page and muse, "I wonder which category this belongs in. Nazism vs communism? probably ought to stick that in the political category." And then they would write a brief paragraph about the conversation, and add the description and the link to the conversation to the right place on the Conversation page.

Having said that, my approach means that someone has to be in charge of keeping that page current. Your approach makes the process more automatic. Your approach is clearly better, but requires more work from you. I was trying to spread the burden a bit more.

111. dusty - 9/30/2000 6:16:11 PM

alistairconnor

Of course, we could leave the existing index by thread in addition to the index by Theme

Holy cow, that is cool.

Have I mentioned recently that you are a god?

112. RosettaStone - 10/2/2000 4:08:12 PM

From a programming/promotional perspective, today worked at TT Mote's Cafe. We may have teased two new people to taste mote.

Particular credit should go to Judith who hit two singles, driving in one run. WAY TO GO JUDY!

Without hurting anyone's feeling, is there any way "we" can keep CalCal from posting there during this critical PR phase. She is her own worst enemy, and just drives cazart crazy.

RS
Promotion Committee Chairman

113. JudithAtHome - 10/2/2000 4:10:24 PM

Thanks, Rosetta...I think.

114. rubberducky - 10/2/2000 4:27:12 PM

what did she hit the singles with?

115. JudithAtHome - 10/2/2000 4:31:27 PM

Louisville Slugger or nine iron, can't recall.

116. alistairconnor - 10/2/2000 6:11:38 PM

Judith is making hit singles...

Where can I get them in MP3?

117. janjon - 10/2/2000 6:19:20 PM

I find Message # 112 to typify cyberspace at its worst. Smug. Exagerated sense of importance ("critical stage" = let the vomit begin). And an opportunity to smack at one of his favorite targets.

Stone - I'll give you this. You have no equals here.

118. RosettaStone - 10/2/2000 10:52:18 PM

Thanks, janjon...I think.


RS
Promotion Committee Chairman

++++++++++++++++

Names of People To Post & Monitor at TT's Mote Cafe tomorrow.

laDiva
labwabbitt
Jenerator
Al D
(if you can't do it, get someone else to cover for you. No excuses.)

119. Michael Mele - 10/3/2000 12:15:48 AM

Where is the TT - Mote Café?

120. CalGal - 10/3/2000 12:36:39 AM

In Technology. We created it originally during our diaspora days; it is also a useful place to meet up when the Mote is down. But it's mainly a place where this weird little guy called Cazart indulges his various obsessions.

121. Michael Mele - 10/3/2000 12:45:11 AM

That's almost the only folder I didn't check.

I guess a Mote promotion thread in Salon Central would be a little out there, huh?

122. Michael Mele - 10/3/2000 12:50:59 AM

Thanks CalGal.

I subscribed, The Mote Café will appear on my message center list now.

123. CalGal - 10/3/2000 12:52:35 AM

Welll, if you feel strongly about it. But don't say I didn't warn you.

124. theDiva - 10/3/2000 5:13:53 AM

Stone

I no longer have a TT account or ID, and I haven't posted there in months. But thanks (I think) for the invite. Or command.

125. Dusty - 10/3/2000 7:45:40 AM

RosettaStone

Without hurting anyone's feeling, is there any way "we" can keep CalCal from posting there during this critical PR phase. She is her own worst enemy, and just drives cazart crazy.

First, you've identified (in your final phrase) a sufficient reason to encourage CG to post there.

Second, I am hoping that Sinead L. drops by for a visit, but she said, in referring to CalGal, that she is one of two people whose opinions I consider the most informative and 'cool'
I rather think CG's post will encourage her to visit, not scare her away.

126. RosettaStone - 10/3/2000 9:01:21 AM

laDiva: Please find someone else to fill your slot. And get your ID back. It's sports day in their TT MOTE CAFE thread and I thought you might have something to say about THE CURSE OF THE YANKEES SINCE HILLARY PUT ON THEIR BASEBALL CAP.

Certainly CalCal can lurk and post if she most, but from my professional promotion opinion, she gives off bad vibes.

There I said it.

127. Wombat - 10/3/2000 9:04:46 AM

Rosetta: always idiotic, but sometimes entertaining.

128. theDiva - 10/3/2000 9:11:31 AM

Stone

You're crazed.

129. RosettaStone - 10/3/2000 4:17:23 PM

Debriefing report #2

Not a good day catching fish in TT's mote cafe. The playoffs tease didn't work. Oh, well, you can't catch the grampuses every day.

Anyone have a problem with tomorrow's topic in TT's mote cafe being:

HOW MANY MORE PALESTINIANS WILL HAVE TO DIE BEFORE THE ISRAELIS SHARE JERUSALEM, AND THE USA GETS TO GIVE BOTH NATIONS HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS?

130. Raskolnikov - 10/3/2000 4:18:34 PM

BTW, on a lark I entered "the mote" into Yahoo, and the site didn't come up as a possible listing. I haven't followed this thread at all, but are people aware of this omission?

131. CalGal - 10/3/2000 4:20:09 PM

Rask,

I think PP or Diva submitted us. It takes a while to show up on Yahoo, and Irv says the type of submission is important (keywords, etc.)

132. PelleNilsson - 10/3/2000 4:22:37 PM

Rosetta

I don't know how serious you are but I would strongly advise against bringing up that subject. There are a lot of weirdos in TT, like that Frenchwoman in International. We wouldn't want them here.

133. RosettaStone - 10/3/2000 4:32:51 PM

Pelle: I just want it (the thread in TT) to get off the constant attack by cazart.

BTW, where is Azure?

134. PelleNilsson - 10/3/2000 4:39:07 PM

tlvdatsi I think she is now, and she is spewing anti-semitic posts all over.

135. JayAckroyd - 10/3/2000 5:11:44 PM

Rask,

Long ago, I tried to register with Yahoo, and apparently didn't categorize the site in a way their reviewers found acceptable. It's not easy to characterize a general interest discussion forum in their framework.

136. JayAckroyd - 10/3/2000 5:11:46 PM

Rask,

Long ago, I tried to register with Yahoo, and apparently didn't categorize the site in a way their reviewers found acceptable. It's not easy to characterize a general interest discussion forum in their framework.

137. Dusty - 10/3/2000 5:20:01 PM

PelleNilsson

When you said Frenchwoman, I assumed you meant Josephine. But tlvdatsi isn't French, she's Cherokee

138. Dusty - 10/3/2000 5:22:08 PM

Actually, I kinda like Josephine. She reminds me of Jenerator (with an earthier vocabulary)

139. PelleNilsson - 10/4/2000 12:46:16 AM

Yes, I meant Josephine.

140. msgreer - 10/4/2000 2:23:47 PM

800-973-2211 Curious? Go to Health Thread.

141. PsychProf - 10/6/2000 12:34:08 PM

Alta Vista...

2. The Mote
Welcome to The Mote! Register. Motie Sign In. Topics of Interest: Best and Cheap Food Discussion. American draft for Israel-Syria peace
treaty. Our...
URL: themote.com/listthreads.asp

142. PsychProf - 10/6/2000 12:43:23 PM

hotbot...

14. The Mote
Discussion site
9/24/2000 http://themote.com/
See results from this site only.


Lycos

.The Mote - Welcome to The Mote! Register Motie Sign In Topics of Interest: NFL DRAFT 2000
Bubbaette's Bread Butter Pickle Recipe Try "The Mote: The Logic Problem" now in the Quiz Thread! Our
Very Own Y2K Bug Th
http://www.themote.com/listthreads.asp
[Translate]

143. joezan - 10/7/2000 1:32:42 AM

GoTo:


14.The Mote
Discussion site
themote.com

144. CalGal - 10/7/2000 1:38:12 AM

Hey, we're on Google!

145. CalGal - 10/7/2000 1:40:13 AM

My lord, we're even on Yahoo, if only indirectly. Alistair, a post you made on New Zealand politics showed up, as well as Aytchman's page at epinions. It's not a direct link yet, but we're there.

146. PsychProf - 10/7/2000 12:58:22 PM

Cal...we are indeed...

..Welcome to The Mote! Register Motie Sign In Topics of Interest: Do you...
...benefits are worth? OLYMPIC HIGHLIGHTS Mote Religious Survey Bubbaette's...
www.themote.com/ - 13k - Cached - Similar pages

on page 11...

147. CalGal - 10/9/2000 6:09:38 PM

Tentative draft of thread page

Note the differences--it's not functional yet, because Alistair has to wave a wand over parts of it.

Also note the Thread Info link at the top, click on it. That page is pretty plain right now; I'm open to suggestions.

148. rubberducky - 10/10/2000 8:37:08 AM

you don't have the Posts Per Page option there

149. alistairconnor - 10/10/2000 8:47:57 AM

It's interesting that the News teasers are what come up first in the search engines. I didn't build the page that way on purpose, but I think it's appropriate. Of course, what is displayed depends on what was there on the day the particular search site's web robot ran through the site.

Which just goes to show, once more, THE IMPORTANCE OF KEEPING THE NEWS LINKS UP TO DATE AND INTERESTING.

One day, someone else will understand this too, and I won't need to shout.

(My guess is that nobody looks at the news links because they never change... the eye memorises the pattern without having to read the words. If they moved daily, they would get looked at.)

150. rubberducky - 10/10/2000 8:54:44 AM

i added a conversation just now, AC

is this along the lines of what you mean?

i think there are probably a couple good conversations in the debate thread if J@L or someone wanted to categorize it

151. alistairconnor - 10/10/2000 9:04:40 AM

Duck, that makes me realise that when you create a news article, there should be a flag to indicate that it's a conversation, rather than a post in a thread -that way, you could have linked the conversation directly from the news.

But that was an excellent initiative... More!

152. rubberducky - 10/10/2000 9:06:16 AM

yes, AC

(the other reason i linked it...heh)

when you change that, let me know and i'll modify the link

153. CalGal - 10/10/2000 11:09:39 AM

Alistair, did you get my note? Sent it to tech.

Ducky--the posts per page is at the bottom, part of a group of lesser used options.

154. rubberducky - 10/10/2000 11:13:24 AM

i don't see it

is it b/c i can't log in?

(no RD acct on this server, i'm guessing)

155. CalGal - 10/10/2000 11:16:24 AM

Yeah, that's why. I'll create an id and email it to you.

156. rubberducky - 10/10/2000 12:52:45 PM

i responded, CG

(no password)

157. rubberducky - 10/10/2000 1:32:51 PM

ok, i'm in

looks fine except i think the font is too small - it's a small bitch but there it is. i like the font in this version for "HTML tags are accepted..." than what's on the test server

158. rubberducky - 10/10/2000 1:33:48 PM

PS

there still is no jump-to-last-post option...

159. ChristinO - 10/10/2000 2:03:01 PM

I can't remember how to denote the thread I'm linking to when creating a news article. I had this problem before. It's probably a big "duh" but I need a reminder.


CG,

It looks good to me, so this is just nit-picky stuff. The top part is kind of long and sparse. When my browser is maximized the top stuff takes up nearly half of the screen. Not really a big deal but it's nice to get to the meat of the matter a bit faster. If the browswer isn't maximized I have to scroll before I can read more than a single post. If it could be condensed it wouldn't look quite so sparse either.

I know you're frustrated with the whole button thing for page advancement. I like the added color, but the low contrast of such a small bit of butter against the white makes them recede into the background a bit.

Great idea to have a mail to link on the host's name. "Display posts" is now on the preferences page, right? Good call. I think that's a better place for it. Less stuff to include on the butter bar.

160. CalGal - 10/10/2000 2:29:07 PM

Christin,

Could you do me a favor? Reduce both windows (not minimize, but the third of the little browser screen size options) and then line them up. On my laptop, the red line on the new version lines up with the first post number on the old version. Not very much difference at all--although definitely lower. Is it that for you as well, or more than that--or is that small difference really noticeable?

No, the posts per page is at the bottom, with the other options. I actually wanted it on the profile, and am still open to the idea. At the time I first did that, though, a few people said they changed it all the time.

Is that still true? Comments from others? I'd still rather it be on the profile page myself--if Alistair doesn't have a problem putting it there.

Ducky--I had a "Post" link in an earlier version. If I add it, it will be up at the top right with Thread Info and Go to post. Will that work?

161. rubberducky - 10/10/2000 2:33:05 PM

i like the idea of Posts Per Page being in the profile, CG. but, either is fine with me, really.


Ducky--I had a "Post" link in an earlier version. If I add it, it will be up at the top right with Thread Info and Go to post. Will that work?

ok, can you add it under the GoTo to kinda break up the links?

162. ChristinO - 10/10/2000 2:38:06 PM

CG,

It's about an inch lower when I compare the two----of course I think our current version is a little long/sparse so the additional inch really stood out for me. I really like the addition of the red line, however. All of the added color helps.

I had forgotten about switching back and forth between numbers of posts displayed. Yeah, that does happen fairly often. I suppose it should stay in an easily acessed location.

163. ChristinO - 10/10/2000 2:38:48 PM

uh, anybody got a tip for me on the news link? I can't believe I can't figure it out.

164. rubberducky - 10/10/2000 2:43:17 PM

CO:

i don't really understand the question ... why not just click on the "Thread Services" button rather than "Maintain" on the main page?

165. ChristinO - 10/10/2000 2:48:57 PM

Yeah, I got that far. I even got to "create news link" and got the box to title my article and the lower box to list the post number. However, I don't see where to enter the thread number and if I try to submit from the page that just has the title and post number I get an error. I'm missing a step somewhere.

Oh.

wait.

I think I know what it is.

brb.

166. ChristinO - 10/10/2000 2:51:08 PM

I got it. I needed to go to the maintain threads page and choose the thread and then make the news article.

Coolio.

167. ChristinO - 10/10/2000 2:52:29 PM

hahahaha!

Somebody beat me to the punch. I've been trying to do this all morning and when I finally figure it out I end up creating a duplicate link. Sheesh!

168. PelleNilsson - 10/10/2000 3:45:26 PM

Christine

I did it. Maybe I should have put a note in N&Q.

169. ChristinO - 10/10/2000 3:51:04 PM

Nah, no biggie. I just hadn't looked at the news links for about half an hour or I would've caught it.

170. RosettaStone - 10/10/2000 3:52:54 PM

Only a year late but still, WAY TO GO, PELLE!

btw, when are you going to act like an European, get rid of these women and take over. Like Russia before Peter, the place is ripe for the picking.

171. rubberducky - 10/13/2000 12:33:19 PM

since i seem to get a better response when i post here, i'm reposting 2 good suggestions:

from Stumbo:

OK, here's another suggestion that I'm not volunteering to implement (but I don't think too much coding would be required):

On one's profile page, there oughta be a list of one's last posts, per thread, sorted by date. Sort of a personalized version of the front page.

Your most recent posts:

Politics Today, #67467 - 10/12/00 3:29:48 AM
Home and Garden, #2193 - 10/12/00 2:14:51 AM
Language, #8973 - 10/11/00 11:43:29 PM
etc.


A "Go to" button after each (or each being a link) would be even nicer.

Granted, this might be more helpful to me than to most participants, but there's no harm in bringing it up...


and from yours truly:

i understand why there is a limit, but can we open up the 40 character restriction on titles in the BS bar? the reason i ask is i was changing the colors [in the Politics thread] in an effort to get them noticed and was unsuccessful with names of a sufficient length.

172. CalGal - 10/13/2000 12:41:09 PM

Alistair, did you get my email about the Conversations function in the dev site? Also, when you have time and can make the few changes to the viewthread.asp page, I can test it and we can put it in.

173. PelleNilsson - 10/13/2000 12:59:56 PM

rubberducky

I don't see the point of stumbo's proposal except that by his own admission he is sometimes a bit sloshed when making his last posts so he may have some difficulties recollecting.

174. rubberducky - 10/13/2000 1:05:33 PM

Pelle

well, it's a good idea if you (a) are a drunkard barely in control of the keyboard and need few keys to press (b) follow the posts of certain posters {say, for example, PE or Jay) and theirs isn't the last post in the thread or (c) have been away for a while and want to see if a certain person responded to you

175. ChristinO - 10/13/2000 1:27:25 PM

Ducky,

Nobody sees your profile page but you. Remember, that's the place where you change your pasword and time zone etc. It's not open to public access.

If we were to go ahead with publicly visible "About Me" pages then that might be something worth having on there if it weren't too much of a pain to set up.

176. rubberducky - 10/13/2000 1:31:26 PM

oh, i see

i was thinking of a public page a la TT

whoops

177. rubberducky - 10/17/2000 1:53:29 PM

Conner:

two questions

can you lengthen the number of links a host is able to post in the BS bar? i have 47 listed in Politics, but only the first 45 (including headers) appear.

also, can you make the link name longer to allow HTML as i asked about in Message # 171?

thanks a heap

178. rubberducky - 10/20/2000 2:56:22 PM

just another suggestion (that i hope isn't ignored too ...):

you (collective mote staff "you") might consider taking the RIPs off of the thread titles in the Archives

179. Ms. No - 8/29/2002 6:33:15 PM

So we're in the dog days of summer again and it appears to be something of an annual event that we begin worrying that we need to pull in more posters and get some fresh blood.

Read back over the thread and see if there were good ideas that we just didn't implement or maybe you've got a new idea.

Bring it on!

180. judithathome - 8/29/2002 6:39:19 PM

Why not move the posts from Suggestions over here...the ones covering this idea, anyhow.

181. Dr.XavierTColtrane - 8/29/2002 6:45:04 PM

The good doctor suggests that the amatueres have dally dillied longdidly enough.

Pay top dollar for a reputible public relations firm who is not afraid to use color photos and glossy paper.

182. magoseph - 8/29/2002 6:46:54 PM

You have lots of money, Doc?

183. Dr.XavierTColtrane - 8/29/2002 6:50:57 PM

My what a personal question?

My practice is quiet profitable but before yours truly shall invest in this growing concerned, some changes shall be requited.

184. judithathome - 8/29/2002 6:54:43 PM

Here is a good suggestion from Alistair:

"It's interesting that the News teasers are what come up first in the search engines. I didn't build the page that way on purpose, but I think it's appropriate. Of course, what is displayed depends on what was there on the day the particular search site's web robot ran through the site.

Which just goes to show, once more, THE IMPORTANCE OF KEEPING THE NEWS LINKS UP TO DATE AND INTERESTING."

I think we do the news links, when we do them at all, with an idea of being cute and insider-y and maybe we should change our approach. Like mention things that would be picked up and be topical. "Cheney Readies Country For Ivasion: read what Joezan and Wonkers think of Cheney's recent TV appearences." Like that.

185. magoseph - 8/29/2002 6:55:21 PM

My what a personal question?

Yes but a topical one. Pray, tell us what you propose to do for us, Doctor dear.

186. magoseph - 8/29/2002 6:57:11 PM

Yes, Judith. Pelle would be good at that.

187. Dr.XavierTColtrane - 8/29/2002 6:59:51 PM

Diagnose, medicate, cure.

188. magoseph - 8/29/2002 7:05:12 PM

We already have the diagnose, Doc. Once we get the medicate from you, we will cure ourselves.

189. Dr.XavierTColtrane - 8/29/2002 7:14:04 PM

:-P

190. rubberducky - 8/30/2002 9:38:18 AM

well, this is a complaint really. i got a little fed up posting here last time due to the complete lack of participation by aC. he's the person that would do anything to the site and he was a non-entity last time. if that's the case this time too, then i have nothing new to add that i didn't last time.

191. glendajean - 8/30/2002 11:23:51 AM

I accidentally posted this is Technical:

As small as we've gotten, and as long as we have been posting together, we may have run out of things to say. We're like the old married couple sitting in the restaurant in silence with hardly a word between them.

I am not sure how to get new folk back in, but we might think of ways to also envliven those of us who are here. Maybe we should restucture our threads or thread topics.

And not to be too negative, but I do feel that SPAM is a huge turn-off and that in certain threads that just about all that is there.

192. PelleNilsson - 8/30/2002 1:27:10 PM

ducky

I think aC will be on board this time (he is travelling and out of touch this week).

193. jexster - 8/31/2002 12:50:00 AM

Pelle or anyone actually, I am game for promo spamming....I reckon that I have consumed more than my share of conservatives and as penance for my gluttony, I'd hit up a few discussion sites either ones where conservatives frequent for self esteem boosts or any with a reasonably intelligent and intelligently combative crowd of any bent...

So I need site suggestions and I need a pitch aimed at AMerican Politics, Intl. MidEast, Slow, R&P -the ones I use...plus topical targeted pitches that others feel may add to these 4.

194. Dr.XavierTColtrane - 9/1/2002 11:33:52 AM

The good-doctor is also gamey.

195. Dr.XavierTColtrane - 9/3/2002 9:58:09 AM

Is this domicile withering on the "so-called" vine?

The good doctor shall aerate it gently back to the top.

200. Dr.XavierTColtrane - 9/6/2002 6:41:31 PM

RIIIIIIIIIIIPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

201. Dr.XavierTColtrane - 9/8/2002 10:00:45 PM

Is only the good doctor interested in saving this domicile?

The hardest working wight at the Mote

202. arkymalarky - 9/8/2002 10:12:42 PM

Is only the good doctor interested in saving this domicile?

No. I'm trying to figure out exactly what the "good doctor" is doing of late to save it. Recall the wise words of your Hypocritic Oath--"First do no harm."

203. Dr.XavierTColtrane - 9/8/2002 10:27:44 PM

Firstly, the good doctor is providing more content than any other wight save possible brave Jester. WHilst Judy and her ilk do nothing but groan tired missives about her various and sundry aches and pains caused by excessive imbibation of certain toxic beverages, yours truly exhiliarates many and assorted subjects running the gamuck of all the world's knowledge.

JUDY: I want to vomit today almost as bad as I did last week after eating too many jelly beans.

LITTLE BUBBA: Yes, I do know what you mean. The sun came up today and shone in my back yard.

SOMEBODY ELSE: Hey, Little Bubba. How is your pick up truck running?

[Four hours pass.]

SOMEBODY ELSE: Anyone here?

[A day passes.]

LITTLE BUBBA: Are you around, Judy?

JUDY: I'm always around. What did you want?

MS. NOTHANKS: I hope she wants to talk dirty.

ARKYMALARKYWALKINGINTHEDARKY: Has anybody seen so-and-so lately?

[Two days pass.]

JUDY: It sure is slow around here. I guess everybody's ignoring me again. My stomach hurts.

[An hour passes]

ARKYMALARKYWALKINGINTHEDARKY: I wasn't ignoring you Judy.

JUDY: Fine, just insult me then. This is just like talkling with Cowgirl.

204. arkymalarky - 9/8/2002 10:36:15 PM

So as not to clutter, I'll respond in the Inferno.

205. Dr.XavierTColtrane - 9/8/2002 10:44:58 PM

Secondly yours truly suggests a "so-called" changing of the guard as it were. Promoting these environs whilst keeping the same knuckle-mouthed crew in the catbird's seat who led it to this enronic state would be a sewer's folly.

206. jonesatlaw - 9/10/2002 11:02:38 AM

Well, I got a promotion- a nice email inviting me back for the anniversary. It worked, I haven't stopped by for sometime, and now I'm going to steal a little time from my schedule to look around.

207. alistairconnor - 9/10/2002 11:07:12 AM

Awww Doctor X is jealous because he didn't get an invite?

I'm sure he really got three or four.

208. jexster - 9/10/2002 11:35:02 AM

To all who had anything to do with the New Look, one word:

SLICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

209. Ms. No - 9/10/2002 11:43:06 AM

Jones,

Great to see you! How are the Atlaws?

210. PsychProf - 9/10/2002 12:45:01 PM

211. PelleNilsson - 9/10/2002 12:58:36 PM

Hi PP!

Good to see you, GIFs and all.

212. Ms. No - 9/10/2002 1:05:36 PM

Hiya PsychProf!

Snazzy, indeed!

213. jexster - 9/10/2002 1:16:00 PM

I am INSPIRED...liberated from the Olive (what good w/out Boodles martini!)

Can anyone tell me off top of head every country represented here?

Time to spam

214. PelleNilsson - 9/10/2002 1:25:26 PM

US
Denmark
France
Canada
New Zealand
Sweden
Ireland

215. arkymalarky - 9/10/2002 5:22:05 PM

Hey Jones and PP!!!

I really love this look.

216. judithathome - 9/10/2002 5:39:17 PM

Don't forget Texas!

217. SnowOwl - 9/11/2002 4:22:22 AM

Wow! Go away for a couple of weeks and the old place is almost unrecognisable. Great job!

218. arkymalarky - 9/12/2002 6:06:31 PM

Good to see you back, Snowowl!

219. Andonly - 9/29/2002 8:55:25 PM

Shouldn't the subtitle of this thread be "Motian Promotion"?

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