4. ChristinO - 10/4/2000 1:30:25 PM
Hmmmm.....for some reason posts aren't showing up after the first one. Wonder why that is?
5. angel-five - 10/4/2000 1:31:02 PM
It is a sign from God.
6. marjoribanks - 10/4/2000 1:31:18 PM
7. labwabbit - 10/4/2000 1:31:43 PM
opposing thumbs + sharp objects
8. marjoribanks - 10/4/2000 1:33:18 PM
9. JudithAtHome - 10/4/2000 1:34:42 PM
Can someone tell me in what decade Maragret Bourke-White did most of her work?
10. marjoribanks - 10/4/2000 1:35:31 PM
30's-40's
11. JudithAtHome - 10/4/2000 1:35:35 PM
And who took these photographs, if I might ask?
12. labwabbit - 10/4/2000 1:37:11 PM
#8
That's a self portrait. Two left-feet.
13. angel-five - 10/4/2000 1:39:13 PM
14. Cellar Door - 10/4/2000 1:39:44 PM
15. theDiva - 10/4/2000 1:41:50 PM
allow me to post one by Herman Leonard, Master Jazz Photographer. 
16. ChristinO - 10/4/2000 1:43:13 PM
Cellar,
Love what you've done with the page! Very entertaining!
17. theDiva - 10/4/2000 1:43:31 PM
dammit, that's all bitmapped. Let me find another one.
The wonderful thing about Leonard's work is that it is so strong compositionally and so technically fine that it tells a story even if you aren't familiar with the subject of the photo. Here's a better one of the Dexter Gordon pic.
18. marjoribanks - 10/4/2000 1:45:40 PM
Phenomenal, Diva
I have a music picture but I'll wait till tomorrow.
19. marjoribanks - 10/4/2000 1:46:28 PM
5, it that your own mound? Or what?
20. angel-five - 10/4/2000 1:46:52 PM
21. marjoribanks - 10/4/2000 1:47:20 PM
Because it sure ain't your usual Chichen Itza photo.
22. angel-five - 10/4/2000 1:47:43 PM
Banks: Used to hang out there, but there was a famine and everyone left.
23. theDiva - 10/4/2000 1:47:46 PM
Banks
Dig this one: 
24. theDiva - 10/4/2000 1:48:25 PM
Angel
is 20 a Cartier-Bresson?
25. angel-five - 10/4/2000 1:49:11 PM
26. angel-five - 10/4/2000 1:52:27 PM
No, it's done by a Japanese photographer named Shimomura.
27. angel-five - 10/4/2000 1:53:11 PM
Lest this grow discordant, I'll lull a while and see if I can find something really special.
28. theDiva - 10/4/2000 1:58:28 PM
It's got that Cartier-Bresson soft palette, almost a silver-gelatin print quality. Is it contemporary?
29. angel-five - 10/4/2000 1:59:12 PM
Maybe a few more.
30. marjoribanks - 10/4/2000 2:00:10 PM
Think about it. Post images rather than words. Let us try and illustrate our contributions.
This is how I feel, folks. 
31. angel-five - 10/4/2000 2:01:50 PM
It was taken in 1935, and I think it <8>was a silver print.
32. angel-five - 10/4/2000 2:02:16 PM
yikes. It was taken in 1935, and I think it was a silver print.
33. labwabbit - 10/4/2000 2:02:29 PM
This thread is going to be wonderful!!!
This is really the first time I actually wished that I had more time to contribute...@!!#
I wonder why it took so long in coming?
34. angel-five - 10/4/2000 2:09:01 PM
Then, Banks:
35. msgreer - 10/4/2000 2:10:36 PM
800-973-2211. Curious? Go to Health Thread.
36. angel-five - 10/4/2000 2:18:31 PM
Ha ha, Banks, you got your first spammer.
37. marjoribanks - 10/4/2000 2:18:41 PM
Five,
That is an astonishing image. Lovely work.
38. PelleNilsson - 10/4/2000 2:21:25 PM
What we need here is not fancy, contrived pics pulled from the net to satisfy the dull, conformist tastes of the bourgeouise, but real pics from real life that reflect the legitimate aspirations of the proletariat as articulated by the party cadres: 
A Swedish cod roe condiment often used to produce a proletarian worksman's sandwich.
39. theDiva - 10/4/2000 2:22:22 PM
who let in the dour, humorless Swede?
40. angel-five - 10/4/2000 2:22:53 PM
Pepón Osorio. The work is entitled The Act of No Return and it was released a year or so ago. He lives in the Bronx.
41. janjon - 10/4/2000 2:23:20 PM
These are wonderful, and certainly not the photographs one might predict to see at the outset of the thread.
Incidentally, would someone please clue me in as to the significance of the image in post 1 to this thread?
42. angel-five - 10/4/2000 2:27:43 PM
43. angel-five - 10/4/2000 2:29:31 PM
Janjon: Peter Paul Rubens, The Entombment of Christ. I'm sure you recognize the chap in the center. The one in red is James. The focal point for me anyway is Mary in the center. In the expression of Mary you can see not just grief and expectation but also the dawning understanding of what a horrible thing it must be to be a god.
44. angel-five - 10/4/2000 2:34:46 PM
Dour, humorless Swede:
The first photograph in post number 29 is actually state propaganda from the USSR. Much more representative of the proles than your silly-ass example. I mean, those people made it an industry, prole visualization.
45. janjon - 10/4/2000 2:36:15 PM
angel. I recognize the painting. I didn't (and still don't) see its relevance to this thread.
46. PelleNilsson - 10/4/2000 2:37:51 PM
Here for example is a poor kid left alone to face the elements in the difficult years following WWII: 
47. angel-five - 10/4/2000 2:39:18 PM
Janjon:
Think of it as a sardonic metacommentary upon the creation of this new (to the Mote) means of communication.
48. theDiva - 10/4/2000 2:40:02 PM
bet he grows up to be dour and humorless.
I'll post one more before I head out to my meeting.
49. theDiva - 10/4/2000 2:42:35 PM
How about good old Weegee? 
50. JudithAtHome - 10/4/2000 2:43:28 PM
marjoribanks:
Your header says "come and post a thousand words about pictures" yet you ask for only pictures to illustrate how we feel...I haven't the capability of posting pictures; does that mean I should simply look but not post?
This is a wonderful thread and each photograph is a treat but I should hope we can speak here, too...
51. PelleNilsson - 10/4/2000 2:44:51 PM
It's been proven again and again that understated humour is lost on Americans. Why do I keep on? Mea culpa.
52. angel-five - 10/4/2000 2:46:37 PM
It's apparently lost on Swedes, too... I guess I'm just bein' gnomic today.
53. janjon - 10/4/2000 2:47:47 PM
angel. Well, ok. If you say so.
diva. That is a good one by weegee. Do you have any of the ones he took at various restaurants and night clubs in NYC during WWII? I've always found them to be compelling, for reasons that I can't quite fathom.
54. theDiva - 10/4/2000 2:48:09 PM
Pelle
I laughed. Heartily.
How about one from Gary Winogrand? 
55. theDiva - 10/4/2000 2:50:17 PM
Jan
I'll look for more. His work is marvelous.
56. janjon - 10/4/2000 2:50:48 PM
I thought it funny, too. If a bit self-serving.
57. angel-five - 10/4/2000 2:51:22 PM
OK, on the 'how' of posting a picture.
Surf around, find one you like. Select it and view it. Copy the exact address. Then put that address where the star is in the following:
(img src="*")
. Use < for ( and > for ). Check that puppy for dust, and if it's too big, use the width command to narrow it down. Like, (img src="*" width=300). Roll it.
58. PelleNilsson - 10/4/2000 2:52:10 PM
There is an interesting disconnect here. But that's outside the scope of this thread. Let's carry on.
59. janjon - 10/4/2000 2:52:41 PM
diva. I've always loved the image of him with his superduper police radio, allowing him to get to the scene of many a murder even before the police. Hence, some of his most dramatic pictures. Not necessarily most artful. But, hey, the guy was then a freelance hawking his pictures to most of the then 15 or so dailies in this city. He was in it for the money, not the art. At least at that point.
60. angel-five - 10/4/2000 2:54:02 PM
You've got great taste, Deev.
61. theDiva - 10/4/2000 2:55:14 PM
aw shucks.
62. theDiva - 10/4/2000 2:55:32 PM
maybe tomorrow I will scan in and post some of my student work.
63. Uzmakk - 10/4/2000 3:37:19 PM
Igor and I are shooting a color roll tomorrow and a black and white the next day.
64. Uzmakk - 10/4/2000 3:39:23 PM
Bank's boy is truly adorable.
65. Uzmakk - 10/4/2000 3:40:18 PM
Have seen several pictures now, but one can take only so much before one must gush forth.
66. PsychProf - 10/4/2000 3:47:15 PM
What a great thread.
67. PsychProf - 10/4/2000 4:02:16 PM
Small town College Baseball during the summer... 
68. Uzmakk - 10/4/2000 7:25:11 PM
I could go 1/2 a mile from my house, PP, and take a nearly identical picture.
69. Uzmakk - 10/4/2000 7:27:05 PM
Little League not college here.
70. grannypatsy - 10/5/2000 4:21:59 AM
Thank you marjoribaqnks for a great thread. And thanks to everyone who's posting. I can hardly wait to see what tomorrow brings.
Pelle: it was funny
71. stostosto - 10/5/2000 6:21:38 AM
Igor Stravinsky portrayed by Herbert Davidsen (1902-1971)
Igor Stravinskij, 1930'erne
72. stostosto - 10/5/2000 6:22:55 AM
73. stostosto - 10/5/2000 6:24:31 AM
74. stostosto - 10/5/2000 6:26:11 AM
This thread is really a treat. Good call, marj!
Pentangeli: Pietà.
75. stostosto - 10/5/2000 6:42:18 AM
Danish press photo of the year, 1998.
The photographer, Lars Bertelsen, also once photographed yours truly, a picture that I allowed Irv to post here in the early days of the Mote, as an entry in his "Mystery Moties" quiz.
76. PsychProf - 10/5/2000 7:37:04 AM
JANJON...that must be some little league field. The park above holds 3500 raging fans.
77. theDiva - 10/5/2000 8:27:30 AM
Weegee, Lower East Side, 1937 
Suggestion....let's give credit where it's due.
78. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 10/5/2000 9:44:52 AM
Hmmmm -- I'll have to think about this place . . . 
79. angel-five - 10/5/2000 11:28:42 AM
80. theDiva - 10/5/2000 11:36:43 AM
81. angel-five - 10/5/2000 11:37:45 AM
82. angel-five - 10/5/2000 11:40:24 AM
83. angel-five - 10/5/2000 11:52:14 AM
84. angel-five - 10/5/2000 11:55:27 AM
85. PsychProf - 10/5/2000 12:07:54 PM
86. PsychProf - 10/5/2000 12:20:29 PM
87. PsychProf - 10/5/2000 12:22:06 PM
sorry
88. angel-five - 10/5/2000 12:28:30 PM
Don't apologize, Prof. I was looking for the one you put in post number 85 myself. I think pretty much anything is fair game. Although I haven't included any nudes yet because, well, there's some excitable folks 'round here. And that's a shame because I ran across an absolutely stunning nude yesterday, all whiteness and shadow and smooth line.
89. labwabbit - 10/5/2000 12:29:07 PM
...no you're not.
Set the (*) mood for my day...
90. angel-five - 10/5/2000 12:31:05 PM
This is supposed to be a mostly wordless thread, so I won't bloviate. But one of the most important aspects of photographic art is its ability to shock.
91. labwabbit - 10/5/2000 12:34:47 PM
A-5
Photos may shock.
Living it again is electrocution.
92. angel-five - 10/5/2000 12:37:16 PM
93. theDiva - 10/5/2000 12:38:15 PM
94. angel-five - 10/5/2000 12:38:26 PM
95. theDiva - 10/5/2000 12:39:23 PM
96. angel-five - 10/5/2000 12:39:48 PM
Ooh.
97. theDiva - 10/5/2000 12:40:18 PM
Master Edward Weston.
98. marjoribanks - 10/5/2000 12:40:51 PM
Hokay,
Actually, I don't think this should be a wordless thread at all, though I certainly didn't come up with the thread description listed under the header on the front page.
I think this thread is and should be more about just photography per se. There can and should be discussions about the medium and its exponents, and I'd like to hear why people post/like particular shots. But I think the thread can and should feature and discuss all kinds of images, WoW's animated gif's are an example of something that very much belongs here.
Now, for starters, what are many of those images you've posted here supposed to convey, Five? Some are obvious, and I like what you started to say in 90. But why that horse with the blue background and that Lauder pic? I find them both rather mediocre.
Oh yes, I forgot to mention the last feature I expect this thread to boast. That is, my unalloyed and free expression of approval/disapproval/etc about the images reproduced here. And you'll find I'm unequivocally right most times. Also, I will make the call as to what is over the line, though I will suggest in adavance that my line is likely to be far more liberal than most anyone else's. I haven't yet got the codes for deletion/links yet, but when I do I will do both as warranted.
99. janjon - 10/5/2000 12:40:56 PM
A nice Georgia O'Keefe painting as a juxstaposition to 95 would be nice about now.
100. theDiva - 10/5/2000 12:46:04 PM
I prefer b/w photography. Color is distracting unless it is used for its own sake...and in that instance, it must be used very judiciously, a la Hiro (whose paper shoes picture I want to find), otherwise it's just a distraction from the photo as a whole.
I love strong shapes and unusual composition.
101. angel-five - 10/5/2000 12:52:00 PM
Banks: Those were just two that struck me because of this morning's dream, for the simplest of reasons -- the palette. Look at how everything else is almost ignored in the preparation of the print. AS for word/wordlessness -- I guess we just had different paradigms. The fort is yours, monsieur.
Diva: I prefer black and white for most purposes but as I've just demonstrated I'm also a fan of brilliant coloration.
102. janjon - 10/5/2000 12:52:20 PM
I too prefer b&w photos from an aesthetic point of view. Except that a lot of color photos take on added character and depth when they fade. When new, I find the color either to be just too ordinary OR too extraordinary (as in many sunrise/set or other sky photos) and vivid.
But, I also frequently like out of focus photos as well.
103. angel-five - 10/5/2000 12:53:08 PM
For Banks:
104. theDiva - 10/5/2000 12:55:27 PM
Angel
You know, I'd group your 92 and 94 with b/w, if those are the ones you're referring to. I can't remember the name of the process that produces the blue finish (it's been years), though. And I've always liked sepia toning. You can do nice things with it.
105. angel-five - 10/5/2000 12:56:18 PM
I do like Diva's sapphic imagery in 95. It takes a second to figure out what you're looking at.
106. angel-five - 10/5/2000 1:00:27 PM
107. angel-five - 10/5/2000 1:01:42 PM
108. theDiva - 10/5/2000 1:02:23 PM
Well, look at it with 93. (The nude was taken in 1935, the shell in 1937.) Weston always could make things like peppers and mushrooms and shells look so...I don't know. I don't want to say sexy. Erotic? Human?
109. angel-five - 10/5/2000 1:02:41 PM
110. marjoribanks - 10/5/2000 1:04:31 PM
Your explanation is more than enough, Five. Sometimes, you should accompany your images with something like your statement above. It helps place these occasionally random-seeming images into context.
Now, a photographer I greatly admire and have been lucky enough to meet several times is the extremely kick-ass Mary Ellen Mark. I love her uncompromising drive, I love her superior use of light, and I love her complete humility, openness and non-judgemental approach towards subjects who are sometimes very difficult to look at. period. Also, she uses color brilliantly, as a tool which adds to the image, and is never a distraction
Some of her finest photos have been taken in India, which helps. The circus series and the street performer series are nothing less than outstanding (they're in black and white). But her Falkland Road series is luminescent. They're in color and are of the notorious caegs in the Red Light disctrict in Bombay. I've tried a dozen times to photograph there, and I know many others who have, and we're Indian and speak the language and more or less blend in. How MEM, who is American and lanky and fair-haired and speaks zero Hindi managed to not only shoot there but be welcomed into the cages by the workers and madadms EVEN DURING the sex stuff - well, it blows my mind. You can find some of the shots at maryellenmark.com. Here's one I picked at random. 
111. theDiva - 10/5/2000 1:07:14 PM
I love her work.
And that photo is a fine example of judicious use of color.
112. angel-five - 10/5/2000 1:07:22 PM
Diva:
Really, babe, I'd no idea you were so talented.
wink
113. theDiva - 10/5/2000 1:08:43 PM
already you're hitting the champagne?
114. marjoribanks - 10/5/2000 1:11:11 PM
Later today, I'm going to try and get to a brief discussion of the kinds of photographs we like - if there are specific categopries some of us are drawn to. And then maybe we can get to some of the other photographers I consider modern masters. Charles Moore and Sebastiao Salgado come to mind immediately, and Raghu Rai.
Anyway, don't just post images please. Attribute them accurately, tell us why you posted them. Play with them as much as you want, but try to put them into a context so we can see where you're coming from.
115. angel-five - 10/5/2000 1:17:03 PM
Just intoxicated with the power of the fleeting gesture, Diva, as per usual.
For me, photography of human subjects -- where the theme isn't human grace or beauty of line, but something quintessentially human that you can't capture in any other model -- is a gamble. It can either encompass an incredible amount of communication in a simple frame, or it can suck eggs. There is of course middle ground but who's concerned with it?
Marjori's photograph of the brilliantly hued whores is one that succeeds at least for me, but most bad photography (outside the still life) is human photography.
116. angel-five - 10/5/2000 1:22:10 PM
I guess it's all a gamble. The best photographs of humans are, in my humble opinion, the best photographs period. And the worst are the worst.
117. angel-five - 10/5/2000 1:34:12 PM
Pursuant to Marj's wishes, I'll explain my inclusion of this piece.
It's lunchtime and I like pretty colors. Ta-ta.
Later I'll post a photographic melange of lips, nudes, wineglasses, pictures of transit, and a map of the major highways leading to the DC area.
118. stostosto - 10/5/2000 1:58:04 PM
Do you know of lomography? 
119. theDiva - 10/5/2000 1:58:38 PM
nope, that's a new one on me. Do tell.
120. stostosto - 10/5/2000 2:04:45 PM
A Danish web site with lomography
International Lomographic Society
121. theDiva - 10/5/2000 2:14:54 PM
well, I don't read Danish, and that other site wouldn't load, but I found 122. theDiva - 10/5/2000 2:15:48 PM
my God, what in hell did i DO?!?!?!
123. theDiva - 10/5/2000 2:16:30 PM
odd, very odd.
Anyway,
lomography
124. PsychProf - 10/5/2000 2:19:22 PM
125. theDiva - 10/5/2000 2:33:23 PM
I hate what that picture represents. It's so hard to look at it.
126. angel-five - 10/5/2000 2:34:54 PM
Three for Marj by the photographer Eric Meola, from his series Last Places on Earth.
The first needs no introduction.
The color is completely natural, which is of course why it's so entrancing to me -- what you're seeing is the result of air pollution. And so this isn't just a beautiful framing of the Taj Mahal but it's also a very deep social commentary on India past and present, or at least it can be seen that way.
View it against
and
Different? I guess you have to choose your metaphors carefully. To me, the image of a hydrocarbon sari pulling itself across ancient India, rendering itself almost surreal, yet still catching the eye and entrancing it, smacks of the perfect sort of ironic macrocosm/microcosm that so captivates dilletantes such as myself.
This next, is, of course,
Salman Rushdie. And a hard time we had finding him, too.
Color. Color everywhere.
A different kind, here. Sharper, cleaner, more real and earthly. Ironic, isn't it. This glittering multicolored ornamentation that's somehow more natural than the luminescent sari or a long-chain monomer caul pulled across the sky. I like this because it shows promise, in juxtaposition with the others. Our human foibles.
And she is pretty, of course.
127. angel-five - 10/5/2000 3:09:52 PM
I'm from a younger generation, sharper edged, punched out on a die of three-color hollywood violence. For me the visceral reaction is different. I can look at these things and not flinch. I didn't have to
fight in it.
I didn't
have to wait for someone.
I lost no father, no brothers I was too young to remember.
There is such a terrible poetry in the photographs of the Vietnam war.
128. angel-five - 10/5/2000 3:21:44 PM
Sometimes I wonder what it would have been like. Is there something wrong with me, that part of me wants to know what it felt like to be a part of that? I don't know. All I have now are the photographs.
It's not like being there, but that's the power of photography. You create something when you look at a photograph.
They say Vietnam changed you.
No one sane wants to be changed that way.
Maybe that's another power of photography -- the fact that we can be a part of it and make realizations from it that spare us needless grief. But it does change us, it shapes our present. Doesn't it?
129. theDiva - 10/5/2000 3:27:26 PM
Angel
you talked earlier about the power to shock. When I first saw that photo, and the napalm photo, I was so young. I grew up in a world where such images were rare, at most...then all of a sudden, there they are. The shock from seeing those pictures has never left me.
130. angel-five - 10/5/2000 3:38:34 PM
Maybe that's a good thing for us all. That war was the first one that saw the results of full media coverage.
I mean, burning monks, children with napalmed skin, men tied to trees and flayed. These things are a part of the world. It might be that nothing can prevent them from happening from time to time, but if anything can, the horror of sensible people over these atrocities is most likely to end them.
I'm sorry that you had to see them. As for me, I can't quite describe how I feel.
131. angel-five - 10/5/2000 3:42:11 PM
The American horror over Vietnam has done a lot of damage to our national unity over the years. But, then again, we haven't gotten involved in any more Vietnams recently. No one's eighteen year old boy has had to learn whatever it is you have to learn so that dragging a corpse behind a truck for a couple of miles seems a good idea.
If media coverage of Vietnam is what it takes, then plaster the pictures all over the chalkboard. It's regrettable that warfare is sometimes necessary but we should never forget its price.
132. janjon - 10/5/2000 4:12:05 PM
I am amazed that I had never seen that photo of the army truck with the corpse tied to it before.
Surely it doens't just fall into the category of being just another photo of just another numbing scene from the Vietnam War.
133. theDiva - 10/5/2000 4:21:24 PM
oh boy. 
134. PsychProf - 10/5/2000 4:22:33 PM
JanJon...for me the words numbing and Nam do not apperar in the same sentence...you must be young enough to have missed the party.
135. angel-five - 10/5/2000 4:24:42 PM
Diva:
I'm sure I know how you got the picture of the pepper, but how'd you manage the self-portrait?
136. janjon - 10/5/2000 4:25:21 PM
I don't quite understand, Psych. Are you saying that the horrors were so well-publicized that people just got inured to it all?
137. PsychProf - 10/5/2000 4:27:00 PM
Just the opposite...I am emotionally and consistently affected by such photos.
138. theDiva - 10/5/2000 4:27:48 PM
Stop, you. Those are both Weston. See what I mean about his ability to make objects human?
139. angel-five - 10/5/2000 4:29:50 PM
We live in a strange enough time that my generation and the one after it has to learn how to be shocked by Vietnam, Prof. There's indeed a numbness you acquire that you have to work through in order to appreciate human horror the way, say, Diva does.
Today, of course, our military is much too smart to allow those sorts of photographs out of a conflict. We have these nice clinical smart bombs and cruise missiles that make lovely copy from forty thousand feet. No one who thinks about it doubts that the reality of warfare is any less horrifying. My generation almost has to mine the past in order to discover what's really happening around the world in our present. Through photographs of screaming children and Charlie dragged Hector-like about the jutting leafy walls of an Indochina Troy.
140. janjon - 10/5/2000 4:31:44 PM
Psych. Then, perhaps, it was my words "just another" that really gave you pause.
I am curious though. Is that a well known photograph? I've seen many of the others that Angel posted several times. Never that one.
141. angel-five - 10/5/2000 4:33:29 PM
Diva:
Well, I'm not sure. I mean, it's the juxtaposition of the images that allows for it, more than the pictures themselves, isn't it? Sure and that's just one skill of a competent photographer at work. The assembly of a gallery is important. But if you'd just posted the pepper, and not the nude, I'm not sure the human-ness of the organic curves of the fruit, or the snail-shell embrace, would have come through.
142. pseudoerasmus - 10/5/2000 4:35:51 PM
Faces of Pathans and Afghans: 143. janjon - 10/5/2000 4:37:26 PM The pepper reminds me of an extremely elegant Henry Moore. And, yes, very sexy. 144. pseudoerasmus - 10/5/2000 4:38:57 PM Faces of Pathans and Afghans: 145. pseudoerasmus - 10/5/2000 4:47:45 PM the King of Afghanistan, in exile in Rome 146. angel-five - 10/5/2000 4:50:06 PM Is Imran Khan the one you mentioned in the anecdote about Pathans and paternity suits? The face fits, if so. 147. ChristinO - 10/5/2000 5:17:03 PM Banks, 148. angel-five - 10/5/2000 5:37:42 PM I suggest: Visual culture in the digital age. 149. stostosto - 10/5/2000 5:44:49 PM 150. stostosto - 10/5/2000 5:45:44 PM Ooops - the staring girl in #145, not #144. 151. angel-five - 10/5/2000 5:47:43 PM I seem to remember Pseud talking about Pathans as follows: if you're even the slightest bit Pathan in your blood heritage, you're a Pathan through and through. So I'm guessing that fairer skin and hair comes into it. 152. stostosto - 10/5/2000 5:54:05 PM 153. stostosto - 10/5/2000 5:56:14 PM 154. angel-five - 10/5/2000 6:02:34 PM I don't know about 'distinct', not as a people anyway. But that'd hardly be the question considering the broad range of skin-tones on display in the photos Pseud has linked. 155. stostosto - 10/5/2000 6:11:56 PM You're probably right. I have got to go easy on my stereotypes. 156. pseudoerasmus - 10/5/2000 6:58:56 PM Stostosto: Nordic features are quite common in Afghanistan and northern Pakistan. My grandfather, a pure-blooded Pathan, was blue-eyed and sandy-haired. 157. Jenerator - 10/5/2000 7:03:34 PM Angel-Five, 158. pseudoerasmus - 10/5/2000 7:07:24 PM More Afghans & Pathans 159. angel-five - 10/5/2000 7:11:26 PM I had no idea you had so much love for Trent Reznor, dahlink. Really, he does have that captivating rage thing, but we're really not that much alike. 160. stostosto - 10/5/2000 7:14:27 PM 161. alistairConnor - 10/5/2000 8:23:49 PM 162. angel-five - 10/5/2000 9:13:43 PM Hegel rides again. 163. Uzmakk - 10/6/2000 8:20:50 AM Message # 133 164. theDiva - 10/6/2000 8:32:02 AM nice images, Pseuder. You take those? 165. PsychProf - 10/6/2000 10:19:07 AM 166. marjoribanks - 10/6/2000 10:39:38 AM Hokay, some context for my next photo or two. 167. marjoribanks - 10/6/2000 10:39:56 AM And Charles Moore's photographs starkly depicted the Civil Rights movement and probably did more to bring the cause home to people than all the rhetoric and all the reportage and even all of Martin Luther King's speeches combined. To this day, I'm lost in wonder when I see them. They shock and frighten me. And they also inspire, because of the humility and indomitability represented in the images of the protest participants. 168. marjoribanks - 10/6/2000 10:43:47 AM Look at the man being bitten. He isn't running, he doesn't even look particularly scared. yet, a fearsome dog is gnawing on his ass and another is about to bite him as well. But rather than cower or hit the ground, he's braced himself to stay there no matter what. 169. marjoribanks - 10/6/2000 10:45:02 AM Shit I really must edit these posts, they meander and are fucking repetitive. Sorry, i hope the point came across anyway. 170. theDiva - 10/6/2000 10:51:38 AM no. They're good. 171. PsychProf - 10/6/2000 10:57:34 AM 172. PsychProf - 10/6/2000 11:00:24 AM Banks...the "meandering" is like us talking and is very appropriate for this thread. 173. mgleason - 10/6/2000 11:04:53 AM Marj, that is a solemnly impressive photograph. You're right, whatever the 'true' circumstances, it is the civil rights struggle in the most gut-wrenching of ways. 174. marjoribanks - 10/6/2000 11:11:36 AM I still can't find the image I want to post, one that I wondered about for years as a kid. It is beautiful, an image drenched in water as shadowy figures run from the hoses. But at the center, a drenched man in a cloth cap has turned and looks back in the direction of all that water. His hands hang loosely at his side almost clenched into fists and his mouth is open. There is anger in his demeanor but more than that there is puzzlement. He is bewildered that people are treating him in this manner, and he is remembering the scene for the future. It's an astonishingly powerful image, and again MEANT the Civil Rights struggle to me. 175. marjoribanks - 10/6/2000 11:39:27 AM The range of photographs of Afghans and Pathans is interesting. The sheer variety of physical types is striking, and brings home the fact that the region has endured waves of different peoples. It also illustrates (a bit) the ethnic infighting that has hit the country in the last couple of decades. If the Taliban loses its hold on the whole country I wonder if the place could potentially implode into a pakhtoonistan and another state comprised of the other ethnicities. 176. mgleason - 10/6/2000 12:36:56 PM The story of the Hottentot Venus is incredibly sad. 177. marjoribanks - 10/6/2000 12:48:17 PM Thanks for finding image, Mgleason, for some reason I can't open it in a new window. But there is at least one more graphic image I have seen. The buttocks in it are awesome - I mean one can kind of vaguely understand why a more flat-buttocked person would rush off to fabricate something which would allude to her having similar appendages. 178. pseudoerasmus - 10/6/2000 12:50:50 PM Why is Marjoribanks cribbing off my comments in International? 179. marjoribanks - 10/6/2000 1:00:08 PM Pseuder, 180. mgleason - 10/6/2000 1:02:30 PM That illustration may be enlarged, the zealousness of the 'gentlemen' with their quizzing glasses becoming more graphic. You're right, the uses to which Saarjite was put are right in line with the long tradition of exhibiting 'freaks,' but it is her personal history which I find distressing. 181. pseudoerasmus - 10/6/2000 1:05:08 PM Diva: No, I didn't take any of the Afghan photos. They're just ones I've found online. 182. marjoribanks - 10/6/2000 1:26:00 PM 183. theDiva - 10/6/2000 1:29:00 PM Pseud 184. PsychProf - 10/6/2000 1:33:30 PM WRIGHT STUFF 185. pseudoerasmus - 10/6/2000 1:36:34 PM I don't have any "work" to post. I don't call photos "works". 186. theDiva - 10/6/2000 1:37:43 PM Picky, picky, picky. 187. pseudoerasmus - 10/6/2000 1:41:38 PM No, I meant I have no photos at all to post. 188. theDiva - 10/6/2000 1:47:13 PM well, dang. Here I had visions of all these exotic places. 189. marjoribanks - 10/6/2000 1:47:25 PM Pseuder, 190. theDiva - 10/6/2000 1:50:59 PM no, beat him about the head some more. He needs a sound thrashing. Upstart. 191. pseudoerasmus - 10/6/2000 1:54:20 PM True, I am indifferent to photography as "works". There are many nice photos here, but they seem to have been largely ruinous occasions for the prime suspects Marzipranks and Angelfive to air their usual noxious orotundities. I nearly vomited reading A-5's faux-earnest commentary about war. Can this generation X thing have gone so out of whack that it's now time for anti-anti-irony? 192. marjoribanks - 10/6/2000 1:59:47 PM That was funny, I must relinquish a hahahahahahaha. 193. theDiva - 10/6/2000 2:01:40 PM And people wonder why I miss him when he's gone. 194. theDiva - 10/6/2000 2:01:51 PM 195. marjoribanks - 10/6/2000 2:05:27 PM Anne Geddes, I have to admit that I'm starting to warm up to her images. 196. marjoribanks - 10/6/2000 2:06:38 PM There are some quite powrful, even if they're all quite contrived, that is one. 197. theDiva - 10/6/2000 2:08:11 PM Banks 198. pseudoerasmus - 10/6/2000 2:11:27 PM Looks like a marble aborted foetus. 199. theDiva - 10/6/2000 2:12:09 PM No one will ever accuse you of being sentimental, Pseud. I promise you. 200. marjoribanks - 10/6/2000 2:14:14 PM Actually, Pseuder, you will find that the quite complete fingers and toes point to a sleeping infant. 201. PsychProf - 10/6/2000 2:15:25 PM Looks like God's gift to our lives. 202. theDiva - 10/6/2000 2:17:41 PM oh yes. 203. JudithAtHome - 10/6/2000 2:21:15 PM On the front page of my paper this morning was a glorious photo of the people crowding around the Parliament building in Belgrade...there were flags and smoke winding throughout the crowds of people and the whole thing looked so "historic". 204. labwabbit - 10/6/2000 2:21:54 PM One that RU-486 didn't get. 205. PsychProf - 10/6/2000 2:29:39 PM Judith...is this it? 206. mgleason - 10/6/2000 2:36:43 PM The Civil War: Incidents of the War 207. JudithAtHome - 10/6/2000 2:46:02 PM Psych: 208. pseudoerasmus - 10/6/2000 2:52:05 PM Looks like God's gift to our lives 209. Raskolnikov - 10/6/2000 3:04:11 PM PE: Domestic life hasn't softened you, I see. 210. theDiva - 10/6/2000 3:05:17 PM Rask 211. pseudoerasmus - 10/6/2000 3:07:34 PM I forgot this is a coven of parents. 212. theDiva - 10/6/2000 3:09:46 PM ha! 213. Raskolnikov - 10/6/2000 3:10:48 PM Diva: Probably, but he won't show it on this forum. 214. PelleNilsson - 10/6/2000 3:10:54 PM Just testing presentation techniques, This is a Yemen medley.
Mujahiddeen 
Imran Khan, cricketer and playboy 
Mujahiddeen commander Ismael Khan 
Some Pathan children
Some Pathan children 
Some girl from Herat
Some Afghan youth
An ethnic Haraza person
a Taliban commander (doesn't he look a bit like Ian Holm?)
Ahmed Shah Massud, the remaining military opponent of the Taliban
The world's most famous refugee, in Peshawar
Sorry, didn't realize you didn't have the info on hosting. I'll email it to you and you can change the thread blurb.
Pseud, those Pathan kids in #144 look very fair as does that staring girl in #144. I mean, blondish and bright-eyed -- is that common among the Pathans?
A5: I don't think he said that. He said he considered himself Pathan despite his really only being quarter Pathan. But that was because the Pathans were the ones who most readily accepted him as one of their own... oh, I just realised, perhaps that amounts to the same thing you were saying.
Except that it would seem difficult for a people to remain distinctly fairer-skinned than their neighbours if they readily intermarried and accepted mixed offspring as their own...
Afghans, of whom Pathans are just one ethnic group, are extremely diverse phenotypically. Although the majority look rather like the mujahideen in #142, there are those with typically Northern European features, those with northern Indian features, those with "Middle Eastern" features and those of East Asian or Mongloid appearance.
Except that it would seem difficult for a people to remain distinctly fairer-skinned than their neighbours if they readily intermarried and accepted mixed offspring as their own...
Well, actually, Afghanistan and northern Pakistan seem to disprove this rather European superstition of yours. That refugee girl above, for instance, is clearly a mixture of various races. And the result shows: light eyes but olive skin.
Turkey, too, is full of obviously mixed peoples.
during the summer I bought a book in Moscow called the "Physical Anthropology of Afghanistan", an academic investigation into Afghan phenotypes in the 1960s. Apparently a team of Soviet anthropologists went into Afghan villages and started taking data on eye colours, nose length, skull shape (!), height, etc. It's an absurdly detailed volume and rather quaint too.
This man and you are one in the same for me.
Pseud
Yeah, the kids in pictures #1, #3, and #5 in 158 wouldn't seem out of place at all in my kids' schools. (Nor would the others for that matter, since such features aren't so uncommon here either anymore).
Surrealist photographer Lee Miller in Hitler's bath.
I really wanted to post some of her pictures, especially her WWII photos, but I couldn't find anything much. Her people seem to keep the images under tight wraps. And rightly so. Buy the books; see the exhibitions.
I had to do a double take of the nude, something not quite right and the something is the shadow on the arm and shoulder. Pretty cool. Makes her more of an abstract figure than if the perfect outline of her form was easily visible. Great juxtaposition by the Great Juxtaposer
Jen, who is that guy?
Angel, I don't know re: the Westons. Even without the juxtaposition the pepper and shell still look human and sensual to me.
click on photo
When I was a child in India, the US was a bit of a blur for me. England I knew about because generations of my family had gone off to Oxbridge to be educated. In a sense, I think I actually believed that I WAS English as absurd as it may seem. But the US was less distinct and something distinctly curious. My Dad had eschewed the uusal pattern and had gone there to be educated on both coasts in the early sixties and returned with armfuls of jazz and folk albums, the habit of playing Bob Dylan songs on the guitar, tons of books, and a stack of fading photographs. These (I wish I could post some) attested to a gaudily louche lifestyle involving a red convertible, mysterious-looking hand rolled cigarettes and white girl after white girl after white girl. None of these things were familiar to me, and i wanted to know more about the place.
Which is where the books came in. Among them were two books of photographs which I must have looked at 50,000 times each. And these photo books became America to me. Both were full of black and white images. One, a collection of Ansel Adams work. Maybe we can look at some later. The other, a collection of Charles Moore photographs.
In many ways, both were useful books because they genuinely have impacted millions of people around the world. Ansel Adams photos persuaded a generation to preserve natural wealth, for many who have not been to the places he photographed (I'm among them) the images have a powerful influence on our very perception of those parts of this country.
I couldn't find the particular image I want, but i'll keep looking. In the meanwhile, chew on this -
Now, all of this is conjecture. A frame later the man could be seen in abject terror or fleeing or begging for mercy. But the camera can bring out something that we expect or project there in a most useful way. This image tell the story of the Civil Rights struggle in a most visceral way, even if it is only actually a tiny perhaps misrepresentative way. That is why the image is such a powerful tool - it can be manipulated. The camera lies. Anyone who has been a news photographer can tall you that.
That picture....worse than the Vietnam ones. Too close to home, dammit. Too close.
Prof:
I am reminded of the Soviet soldiers parading on the promenade a half-block from my house.
Here is a similar image.
In this one too, one figure turns to confront even as the others scurry for safety. But this has more rage, more emotional resistance. It's why i prefer the other one - the older figure is calmer and in control even as he's been treated as a sub-human.
BTW, those images of different racial types bring to mind (for no good reason) the image of the Hottentot woman which was widely exhibited in Europe and supposedly prompted the invention of the bustle since European women wanted to feign the posession of an outrageously bulbous and elongated arse.
But I don't really see the story, or at least the image(s) as sad. It is a universal trait to produce pwople with unusual features as an entertainment. Think of the Bunker twins, or Tom Thumb or even the Paki gent produced (legitimately) as The World's Tallest Man at the current Barnum show.
Mary Ellen Mark has done the best circus photography imaginable in India, Vietnam and more. The books are just unbelievable and her website is representative (maryellenmark.com). We really must look at some of those one by one.
There has been no ethnic infighting for the "last couple of decades". More like since the early 1990s.
Let's see some of your own shots. Got any from the Middle east?
I also found another image; I think it's a picture of Saarjite stuffed and on display, but I couldn't find supporting data.
You might find the rest of the site of interest, if you can open the link (I just tried it, and it worked); it's part of a study on post-colonialism.
Mary Ellen Mark
Nice choices. I'm with Banks, let's see some of your work.
click on photo
Okay, PLEASE post some of your pictures, photos, whatever.
If you took photography at all seriously, you'd call some images "work" too.
But having seen some of your crude but ocassionally interesting photos, I can see the point you're making about yourself.
(BTW, I may well stop beating you around the head, but maybe - I'm thinking - you should stop first.)
But what have I posted that is "ruinous". Civil Rights? If so, hmmm.
For obvious reasons, I love that one.
(Dead Federal Soldiers, Gettysburg, July, 1863, by Timothy H. Sullivan)
No, the one I saw was more epic in scope. Only the columns of the building were shown and from the side. There were almost a thousand people and the smoke was white and misty and hugging the ground. There were 2 huge statues of rearing horses and lots of green trees and shrubs.
Given the votive manner in which the offspring is held, the other possibility is that the photo in #194 represents a burnt offering at the altar of Satan. You know, with all the immorality today, Satanists probably must extract six-month-old foetuses in order to find a virgin.
At the first sign of a Pseudinfant he will be reduced to a blithering mass just like the rest of us saps.
Have I mentioned that my wife is expecting scion #2 in April?
My boys can swim!
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215. theDiva - 10/6/2000 3:11:44 PM
ACK! No, Rask, you didn't!!!!
That is so fabulous, congratulations!!!!!
Lordy, there must be something in the MoteWater. That makes four of us.
216. pseudoerasmus - 10/6/2000 3:14:09 PM
Congratulations, Raskolnikov! And, no, I wouldn't show it.
Besides, this thread is in dire need of some flippant commentary or else it would pull a Kursk with its own gravity.
217. ChristinO - 10/6/2000 3:15:43 PM
Does anyone know the name of the photographer that takes the underwater shots of dancers? There color works often with silk or other flowing materials in them as well.
218. theDiva - 10/6/2000 3:16:50 PM
pseud
but we'd know.
219. theDiva - 10/6/2000 3:18:50 PM
We need to have Eric organize a Baby Prediction Pool.
220. theDiva - 10/6/2000 3:19:12 PM
Chris
Not I.
221. mgleason - 10/6/2000 3:22:53 PM
©Ilkka Keskinen
222. ChristinO - 10/6/2000 3:23:28 PM
I will not write "there" when I mean "they're".
500x
223. ChristinO - 10/6/2000 3:24:40 PM
Thanks Maria! I don't know if that's the same photographer or not. I'll have to look into it.
224. ChristinO - 10/6/2000 3:25:46 PM
YES!!!!
225. angel-five - 10/6/2000 3:30:41 PM
Incredible stuff, Marj.
The shootings of May 4th, 1970 are something that had a dramatic effect on our country's psyche, and I think they go nicely with the work Marj is posting, although of course his are much more professionally done. There's a certain sense of unreality that both series share.
At any rate, these are some of the photographs in the online archives at my alma mater. As you look at them you'll notice tags in the lower right corners; these were used as court documents in the resulting trials.
In this photograph you can see the Guardsmen. They're masked because they've been pumping tear gas into the crowds for a while and some of the students are tossing it back at them. 
Look at the confusion -- an effect magnified by the surreal facemasks they're wearing. Remember these are civilian soldiers, national guardsmen, and they've been criminally misled for the last few days by Ohio's governor into believing that a state of martial law has been declared. No such state was declared, of course, or could be at the time under the circumstances. They've repeatedly ordered the students to disperse. The students, knowing this is an illegal order, have refused to do so. The tear gas isn't putting an end to the demonstrations.
In the next couple of frames you can see them marching to the point they're at in the first frame, orderly compared to the sudden chaos you see in the first frame:
At this point they're marching away from where they'd been set up near the Prentice hall lot
226. mgleason - 10/6/2000 3:30:55 PM
This is very strange, Christin; I've had his page bookmarked for quite a while. Today is a serendipitious day - any number of impossible things have happened before breakfast (I'd better eat soon!)
227. angel-five - 10/6/2000 3:31:58 PM
. In the next three frames you see them wheeling, facing that lot and the students in it, deploying their arms, firing for 13 seconds, and then raising their weapons again. The students they were shooting at were all more than a hundred yards away from them, and unarmed.
The reason given at the time for the use of deadly force was that the guardsmen had run out of tear gas.
They hadn't.
This is a shot just before the Guardsmen open fire. No one's shot yet but you can see the nearby people panicking. And then the shots came.
The next two frames show the reaction. Some people are ducking and running. Others seem like they can't believe what's happening and are still standing there, or walking normally. I mean, their own soldiers can't be murdering them, can they? Students there at the time thought that the guardsmen were shooting blanks, at first. 
And, of course, there's some people who aren't standing, or ducking, or even moving at all. 
The object to the left in the next frame is a large art sculpture.
It was pierced cleanly with an M-1 bullet.
228. angel-five - 10/6/2000 3:32:10 PM
The hole's still there today. I used to walk past it every day on my way to class.
(The buildings in the background, incidently, are the Eastway residence complex. I lived there for two years.) 
William Schroeder, on the ground. He was shot in the head once by a man a football field away. 
And no one can believe it. An entire nation couldn't. 
229. ChristinO - 10/6/2000 3:33:04 PM
Damn. I'll have to go back to the bookstore. Similar but not who I was thinking of.
230. angel-five - 10/6/2000 3:35:53 PM
Yah, yah, Pseud. We know. You've an opinion. Of course, it's not nearly so noxious as you paint it, but that's to be expected.
231. mgleason - 10/6/2000 3:44:38 PM
Christin, are you thinking of Howard Schatz and Water Dance? That's the only other underwater dance photographer with whom I'm familiar. 
232. mgleason - 10/6/2000 3:48:26 PM
Another by Schatz: 
233. mgleason - 10/6/2000 4:10:13 PM
Last ones, Christin: 
234. ChristinO - 10/6/2000 4:12:19 PM
Yes! That's exactly who I was thinking of! Thanks Maria!
235. angel-five - 10/6/2000 4:21:30 PM
Bless the arts.
236. ChristinO - 10/6/2000 4:55:21 PM
It's an amazing site.
Howard Schatz
Particularly the "Dance" gallery where you find a lot of human sculpture.
237. ChristinO - 10/6/2000 5:19:44 PM
238. ChristinO - 10/6/2000 5:23:47 PM
239. PsychProf - 10/7/2000 12:51:32 PM
Res and others...why not reduce photo size to aid in loading and viewing...like this...
240. PsychProf - 10/7/2000 2:39:14 PM
Too serious PE? Here ya go sweetheart... 
241. labwabbit - 10/7/2000 3:37:38 PM
242. labwabbit - 10/7/2000 4:13:11 PM
Title: I Am Smiling
243. PelleNilsson - 10/8/2000 6:03:56 AM
I would rather call it PE Brooding Over an Offensive Post
A technical note. When we first started to fool around with pictures, somebody (dusty?) noted that reducing display size does not reduce loading time because your browser first downloads the original image from the linked source and then displays it according to the width and height values you have set.
244. pseudoerasmus - 10/8/2000 1:47:48 PM
(Hahahahaha!)
245. Toenails - 10/9/2000 11:28:02 AM
PelleNilssen:
If you look up "novice" in the dictionary, there's my picture.
But even I know how to run a .jpg image thru my own software and (greatly) reduce its byte size, without doing too much damage to its quality. Isn't this what PE is talking about?
246. PsychProf - 10/9/2000 1:11:16 PM
Pelle or anyone...for those who want to/can do it; put the desired oversize photo on your hard drive, use Adobe or some such photoprogram to size the photo, place it on a temp internet webpage, and then put it up. How does this sound? Is there an easier way I am unaware of?
247. labwabbit - 10/9/2000 1:38:23 PM
248. PelleNilsson - 10/9/2000 1:57:44 PM
Toenails
If you link to the original source things work as I said.
Yes one can download the image and run it through one's own software. But as PP points out you then have to upload the .jpg to a website. You can't publish pics from your own hard disk.
I have a created a site at www.geocities.com that we can all use for this purpose.
User ID: themoties
Password: kissme
Select File Manager to upload files. Start by creating your own sub-directory.
The link will be in the form of
http://www.geocities.com/themoties/toenails/mypicture.jpg
249. labwabbit - 10/9/2000 9:30:10 PM
250. labwabbit - 10/10/2000 12:03:33 PM
251. marjoribanks - 10/10/2000 12:12:09 PM
Prospect Park (Brooklyn) this past weekend. You could taste the end of warmth and the rapid approach of winter. As it turned out, it became chilly that very night. 
252. marjoribanks - 10/10/2000 12:41:15 PM
In general, I'm very happy with my little cheapo Olympus digital camera. While it's only 1.3 magapixel, and has no zoom or anything, the images are of high quality and have printed out very well via shutterfly.com. Bodes well for the next generation which is making its way to the market.
253. labwabbit - 10/10/2000 3:44:48 PM
254. marjoribanks - 10/11/2000 1:29:20 PM
Sebastiao Salgado, the magnificent Brazilian photographer, takes the images that define "the best" in terms of my taste. They narrate, they are epic, they merit close inspection, and they are very beautiful. He's acknowledged by all as one of the greats of the 20th century, for me he's the greatest.
Why? Partly because of the reasons above, but mostly because of his ambition and his tenacity. These have taken him to hotspots and troubled regions repeatedly, and so along with all his other talents he's also often the only person even shooting these images. And also because he self-consciously seeks out grand themes to tie together his work. And also because he is probably the greatest printmaker around, using painstaking methods to bring a certain sheen to his photos that is unparalelled.
But look at his work, some of it is here. It's best experienced in his many books, though.
255. marjoribanks - 10/11/2000 1:34:16 PM
A typical Salgado image introduces the exhibition. Like his shots of oilworkers in Kuwait and strip miners in Brazil, this is an image that immediately supplants others and remains indelible when its topic is broached. Its scope is vast, yet the subjects are treated intimately. Its an epic image, biblical even. But look at others, you'll get what I'm trying to say.
256. marjoribanks - 10/11/2000 1:39:35 PM
Salgado, the Sierra Pelada gold mine. 
257. marjoribanks - 10/11/2000 1:43:08 PM
same subject 
Please do look for more. Salgado's work is always worth it and revelatory. They often make me gasp for breath.
258. PelleNilsson - 10/11/2000 2:24:51 PM
marj
I totally agree about Salgado. The contrast between the human misery on display and the poetic quality of his photos is indeed breathtaking.
259. PelleNilsson - 10/11/2000 2:30:22 PM
More Salgaldo. A Rwandan refugee camp. The photo has an almost Biblical quality, 
260. mgleason - 10/11/2000 2:33:00 PM
How can he bear taking such photographs? How can we look at them and remain unaffected?
261. labwabbit - 10/11/2000 3:41:38 PM
262. labwabbit - 10/11/2000 3:42:23 PM
263. labwabbit - 10/12/2000 11:50:03 AM
264. labwabbit - 10/12/2000 11:57:17 AM
265. marjoribanks - 10/12/2000 12:02:08 PM
Labwabbit,
When you're posting an image, it would be nice to put it into some kind of context. Even give it a blurb just to be witty or whatever.
F'rinstance. Who is the bearded dude? And why've you posted him here?
266. marjoribanks - 10/12/2000 12:03:08 PM
Not to mention the one above it. BTW, you've sized them badly. If you want to just experiment I suggest you use the Try the Mote thread instead.
267. labwabbit - 10/12/2000 12:04:23 PM
268. labwabbit - 10/12/2000 12:10:22 PM
marj
The blurb is in the eye of the beholder. The bearded dude is John Muir, co-founder of the Sierra Club. I enjoy much of his writings as well as the photography of Ansel Adams.
The rest are Walker Evans works that I found quite pleasing. I can only hope that the effects upon others are similar.
269. labwabbit - 10/12/2000 12:14:15 PM
270. labwabbit - 10/12/2000 12:21:32 PM
marj
If you wish to experiment, then you feel free to try the mote.
I cannot tell how it will appear on your CRT...but on mine-it's just fine.
271. labwabbit - 10/12/2000 12:28:22 PM
marj
After reading my response(s) to you it might have appeared to you that I was projecting sarcasm. My apologies if so. Thank you for your critiques quite sincerely.
I mainly post images to reflect my mood at that particular time. I am unable to compensate for others, so I do not attempt to do so.
(I will provide effort to obtain as much clarity without diminishing detail as much as possible)
272. labwabbit - 10/13/2000 12:59:55 PM
Pinhole photos. 
Posted by a pinhead...
273. labwabbit - 10/13/2000 1:01:18 PM
Breaking waves... 
274. marjoribanks - 10/13/2000 2:32:28 PM
Not bad, labwabbit.
Now, I wonder if we should look at some Rauschenberg works and perhaps some by other artists who take photographic images and play with them.
But is no one interested in this thread other than labwabbit and me? Come on. Let's see your absolute favorite photo of all time. If you can't find it describe it. has anyone read Camera Lucida by Barthes? Want to discuss some aspect of that largely tiresome but somehow hallowed book?
275. marjoribanks - 10/13/2000 2:33:59 PM
Labwabbit,
That Evans photo in #269 is powerful. But I'm still seeing it pixellated. Maybe you're making it too large?
276. Cellar Door - 10/13/2000 2:36:34 PM
It's largely tiresome. Not Barthes at his best -- by a long shot. Intellectuals tend to go all fuzzy when confronted with photography. Sontag is similarly blinkered.
What's curious about Barthes is that he wants to reduce fim (eg."IVan the Terrible") to stills, and thus make it more easier for him to digest conceptually. Not very sporting of him.
And I don't care for any of the photos he chose for that book.
277. ChristinO - 10/13/2000 2:37:32 PM
I know little about art particularly photography. I tend to like what I like without always knowing why. I'm enjoying looking at the pictures here and what others have to say about them and why they choose them. I'll have to spend some time searching the web for images.
Does anyone know the name of the woman who takes the pictures of nudists/naturists and freaks? I believe she's American as are most of her subjects.
278. marjoribanks - 10/13/2000 2:38:57 PM
I liked one photo in the book, of a group of Russians. but yes, the rest sucked.
But cellar, you take photographs seriously don't you? Can you post one or two here and talk about them a bit? Have you ever done it professionally?
279. labwabbit - 10/13/2000 2:50:11 PM
marj
When I dust-check, and even now, as-posted, it is actually clearer than the source item.
Although it was impossible to clarify the pin-hole objects.
280. Cellar Door - 10/13/2000 2:57:44 PM
I'm strictly an amateur. I don't even do my own developing. In fact, I'm picking up the ones I shot at Don's opening last night later this afternoon.
How do you put photos on this page?
281. marjoribanks - 10/13/2000 3:00:23 PM
Simple. It's < img src = " URL " >
You get the URL by clicking on the image on the source page and opening it in a new window. The new window has the exact URL of the image.
At least that's how I do it.
282. labwabbit - 10/13/2000 3:00:31 PM
Eugene Atget French (1857-1927)
TITLE ON OBJECT: Marchand Abat-Jours
Lose the background detail to avoid major pixel-putz.
283. labwabbit - 10/13/2000 3:07:45 PM
More Atget portraits on display at the George Eastman House.
Title: Femme
284. Cellar Door - 10/13/2000 3:08:29 PM
River Phoenix>
285. Cellar Door - 10/13/2000 3:09:34 PM
River Phoenix>
286. Cellar Door - 10/13/2000 3:10:43 PM
Hmmm. Can'tseem to get the hand of this.
Anyhoo
River Phoenix
287. Cellar Door - 10/13/2000 3:11:41 PM
288. Cellar Door - 10/13/2000 3:12:30 PM
There!
289. PelleNilsson - 10/13/2000 3:14:10 PM
Cellar
Don't use target="new". Otherwise you're OK.
290. labwabbit - 10/13/2000 3:14:22 PM
Taken in Portland, Maine...I really like this photo the more I sink thought into it.
LFriedlander
291. marjoribanks - 10/13/2000 3:15:49 PM
Someone more competent than I will point out what you did wrong, Cellar.
But here's your lovely photo: 
Where was it taken? What was he doing? Smoking? It would be great if you could share a bit of what you think of the photo, and what it captures or doesn't of the moment you were part of.
292. PelleNilsson - 10/13/2000 3:17:10 PM
And Cellar. If the photo is large add width=n where you now have the target statement. The largest n to fit the margins is 425.
293. marjoribanks - 10/13/2000 3:17:55 PM
He has this very beautiful vulnerability to him. I don't think its just that he died young and tragically, it was evident in his work long before.
294. Cellar Door - 10/13/2000 3:27:04 PM
Perfetimento!
That photo was taken in his room at the Sunset marquis Hotel, here in Los Angeles. Not as well-known as the Chateua Marmont (where Gus and T.J. are holed-up even as I post) but cozy.
River dyed his hair blonde in order to impress Gus who was planning to film the life of Andy Warhol around that time. River had that perfectly Distracted sense that would have been ideal for Andy. Except, of course, River was beautiful and Andy wasn't.
He isn't smoking, BTW. He said "Oh here, I'll sit by the window and you can get all the light."
Jeez, but he was somethin' else.
295. Cellar Door - 10/13/2000 3:31:19 PM
Here's T. J., marj. Can you insert him for a compare/contrast?
296. glendajean - 10/13/2000 3:34:18 PM
Cellar -- RP was achingly beautiful. In his last few years, it seemed like it a burden for him.
297. PelleNilsson - 10/13/2000 3:34:47 PM
And now the advanced course.
If you have a large photo, and you want to show it in original size, you can link it from a small version. You have seen PP do this in the Sports Bar. Syntax (replace round brackets with angled ones):
(a href="URL" target=new)(img src="URL" width=150)(/a)
Example:
298. marjoribanks - 10/13/2000 3:34:49 PM
Here ya go. 
Now, who is this open-faced pleasant looking young man?
299. glendajean - 10/13/2000 3:34:54 PM
was a burden ...
300. marjoribanks - 10/13/2000 3:37:03 PM
I like the way you use contrast, cellar. And it is unusual to see someone shooting black and white for these kinds of photos these days.
Do you use a manual?
301. Cellar Door - 10/13/2000 3:37:13 PM
T.J. was the star of "Saban's Masked Rider"-- a spin-off of the "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers."
So essentially Gus' current boyfriend is a Mighty Morphin Power Ranger.
This shot was taken about a year and a half ago at Hugo's, where the trhee of us were all having Chicken Caesars.
302. Cellar Door - 10/13/2000 3:39:07 PM
Don't use a manual of any kind, marj. I just follow my nose and think of the way Godard had Raoul Coutad shoot Anna Karina in "Vivre sa Vie."
303. marjoribanks - 10/13/2000 3:39:09 PM
Yes, GJ. You know, I get that feeling sometimes when looking at photos of the young Brando. Its almost that he had to eat himself to porcine proportions.
304. marjoribanks - 10/13/2000 3:40:56 PM
I meant a manual camera as opposed to an automatic, Cellar. I'm guessing you use the latter.
"I just follow my nose and think of the way Godard had Raoul Coutad shoot Anna Karina in "Vivre sa Vie.""
Cool. But, um, what is that way?
305. Cellar Door - 10/13/2000 3:43:03 PM
Oh yes, I use an automatic.
What I mean is high contrast B&W. I love it SO much more than color.
"8 1/2," "Eclipse," and Bay of the Angels" are other exampls of what I'm talking about. "Raging Bull" too.
306. marjoribanks - 10/13/2000 3:44:09 PM
And give us some more goodies whenever you feel like it please. It's great to look at photos taken by one of us, especially thoughtful portraits like the two we've seen so far.
307. Cellar Door - 10/13/2000 3:44:49 PM
If you'll note, in the pic of T.J. most of the light is falling on his left shoulder. His right eye is slightly shaded. Very sexy. (As is he.)
308. Cellar Door - 10/13/2000 3:45:42 PM
Merci, marj!
Will do.
309. marjoribanks - 10/13/2000 3:45:49 PM
Oh yes, I get it. I love it too especially for photos of people. It brings out surprising things and adds all kinds of nuance.
310. Cellar Door - 10/13/2000 3:47:24 PM
That's precisely why I use it. I'm really only interested in photographing people.
311. glendajean - 10/13/2000 3:50:33 PM
Is there more to tell about River P?
312. Cellar Door - 10/13/2000 3:56:20 PM
His skin was almost transluscent. But that was his face. His arms were in bad shape. Tracks. Not many, but noticeable. He was extremely flirty, which quite frankly terrified me.
There was a somewhat mysterious older woman with him who retired to another room for us to do the interview alone. I would guess, from the events that followed, that she was a dealer.
He was exactly as he appeared in "Idaho" -- but smarter. A whole lot smarter.
But ultimaely, not smart enough.
313. marjoribanks - 10/13/2000 3:56:43 PM
There is that "moment" that Henri Cartier Bresson talks about when every factor (the camera, the light, the situation, the composition, the subject, the photographers eye) falls into place. It lasts for as long as it takes to click the shutter and it never repeats itself. At that moment, you've captured the very essence. It never repeats itself and if you miss it, you're condemned to only remember it.
I think it's true of portrait photography as well. At least, it's true of what we perceive to be the essence of the subject and the shared moment.
314. Cellar Door - 10/13/2000 3:57:48 PM
That's precisely what I believe, marj. Cartier-Bresson was no fool.
315. rubberducky - 10/13/2000 4:01:35 PM
Re: Message # 307, Cellar Door.
If you'll note, in the pic of T.J. most of the light is falling on his left shoulder. His right eye is slightly shaded. Very sexy. (As is he.)
i'll say! i've got something for him to Ride - mask or no!
316. marjoribanks - 10/13/2000 4:01:38 PM
Well, I'm sure he put it a lot more poetically. Cartier-Bresson was as agile and poetic a wordsmith as he was a photographer.
317. glendajean - 10/13/2000 4:12:29 PM
He was extremely flirty, which quite frankly terrified me
That would be unnerving. I think I read in Esquire or similar mag that he supposedly slept with another actor to prepare for My Own Private Idaho.
318. Cellar Door - 10/13/2000 4:16:28 PM
Oh he slept with a lot of people.
319. Cellar Door - 10/13/2000 4:21:12 PM
320. labwabbit - 10/14/2000 2:39:55 PM
VOLCANO - Siskind 1980 
321. PelleNilsson - 10/14/2000 3:07:19 PM
Look like a pile of dung to me.
322. labwabbit - 10/14/2000 3:18:58 PM
I arranged these photographs of Pittsburg by W. Eugene Smith to form a sort of lineal "inward to outward" perspective. 
323. Cellar Door - 10/14/2000 7:20:08 PM
Great pics. Especially the one of the graduating class.
324. labwabbit - 10/14/2000 7:56:22 PM
Thanks CD
The first picture was of a girl dreaming perhaps about life beyond the city.
The second was perhaps her view of the street at her home.
The third...reflecting change and demolition of neighborhood memories.
Fourth her dreams and vision beyond her street.
The fifth...the road out of the city...
The sixth...getting to that road.
325. labwabbit - 10/14/2000 7:57:45 PM
...or the sixth "taking that road".
326. altitude /w attitude - 10/14/2000 11:18:08 PM
Nice series.
Always regarded graduation as an alpha and omega kind of experience.
327. marjoribanks - 10/15/2000 9:35:11 AM
We discussed Cartier-Bresson and portraiture in the same breath earlier. Well, the master took some great ones including some of celebrities that could serve here as an interesting counterpoint to those cellar posted.
F'rinstance. Check out this one of Capote. Isn't it just so lush and full of lurking secrets? 
Others (though smaller) are available here.
328. marjoribanks - 10/15/2000 9:40:02 AM
The most difficult thing for me is a portrait. You have to try and put your camera between the skin of a person and his shirt. -Henri Cartier Bresson
Hmm. That photo of Truman Capote illustrates the quote rather well doesn't it? In fact it looks like Capote is actually shrinking away from that intimacy even as it lays him quite bare.
329. marjoribanks - 10/15/2000 9:49:25 AM
Hey, I haven't seen some of these before. Apparently, there was a separate exhibition and book on Bresson's portraiture. I'm much more familiar with his work in France and other countries for Magnum.
Marilyn Monroe 
Many others are available at this excellent site.
330. Cellar Door - 10/15/2000 10:30:55 AM
Capote was, of course, always posing. So it's an open questions as to whether Cartier-bresson actually "captured" anything or not.
Later this week I'm going to be meeting with an amateur phtotgrapher named Bob Board. Now in his 80's, Bob used to work for Columbia pictures in the publicity department. he told me that when he first got there he was quickly bored with office work and asked if he could visit the set. So he stepped onto one for the first time to see Rita hayworth and gene kelly dancing to "LongAgo and farAway" in "Cover Girl." Bob was George MacCready's stand-in on "Gilda" and was an extra in its crowd scenes.
His photos are very simple close-up portraits for the most part -- many of them in color. He managed to get a lot of the stars in unusual moments. For instance, he's got a shot of Marilyn Monroe with her mouth closed.
331. mgleason - 10/15/2000 1:38:52 PM
Wonderful photographs, everyone. Armed with my ancient Leica, I'm taking photographs in black & white for the first time in a long while.
I'll have to see what develops.
332. labwabbit - 10/16/2000 12:33:58 PM
"Grandpa Goes To Heaven" - Duane Michals
Five pic sequence from collection of "Dream"s 
333. Cellar Door - 10/16/2000 12:42:46 PM
Duane Michaels is one f-stop shy of a filmmaker.
334. labwabbit - 10/16/2000 12:55:53 PM
And you think you have back problems?
Gives a whole new meaning to the term "Play-Me". 
-Man Ray
335. ChristinO - 10/16/2000 1:39:55 PM
That's reminiscent of a Dali piece where the human torso is a cello.
336. labwabbit - 10/16/2000 3:58:17 PM
Message # 332
The "grandpa" sequence draws many parallels to the way I imagined "going to heaven" was like when I first seen my Great-Grandmother lying in bed during her final hours. I was 7 years old.
337. marjoribanks - 10/16/2000 6:25:30 PM
My baba.
338. ranheim - 10/16/2000 6:43:27 PM
I am no photagrapher - so tell me to get Hell out if I am "out of order".
Sometime in the last 6 months I received a piece of junk mail at my office. I had never seen that return address before; so, instead of immediately throwing it into "file 13", I took a look.
First thing that caught my eye was that - I guess I am correct in my assumption - famous picture of Lee Harvey Oswald holding a rifle somewhere in the Soviet Union. The caption under the picture said that the picture was a fake. That is when I used file 13!
Have any of you any knowlege concerning that picture?
339. Cellar Door - 10/16/2000 7:08:08 PM
Ooooooooo! Lovely, marj!
340. theDiva - 10/16/2000 7:15:06 PM
oh, that baby. What a sugar.
341. theDiva - 10/16/2000 7:15:09 PM
oh, that baby. What a sugar.
342. theDiva - 10/16/2000 7:16:27 PM
It was true both times I said it.
343. ChristinO - 10/16/2000 7:23:13 PM
How I spent spare time in college.
344. Cellar Door - 10/16/2000 7:28:41 PM
"The Mote Witch Project"?
345. labwabbit - 10/16/2000 7:35:34 PM
CO in the daytime... 
...but at night... 
346. ChristinO - 10/16/2000 7:39:33 PM
ROTFLMAO!!!
347. labwabbit - 10/17/2000 12:04:24 PM
Interstingly weird? 
348. labwabbit - 10/17/2000 12:09:38 PM
Nothing portrays despair... 
A woman mourns at the funeral of an Israeli watchman slain during a border incident at Beth Hafafa, Jerusalem, 1953.
349. labwabbit - 10/17/2000 12:20:33 PM
The Children of WAR...
Tereska, a child in a residence for disturbed children, grew up in a concentration camp. She drew a picture of home on the blackboard. Poland, 1948 
Boys play in bombed-out buildings in the working-class district, Favoriten, in Vienna. Austria, 1948 
Boys in the Albergo di Pobre reformatory. Naples, Italy, sp. 1948 
Budapest, 1948 
350. Jonesatlaw - 10/17/2000 5:30:04 PM
Out at the homestead...
351. theDiva - 10/18/2000 10:54:27 AM
One of my favorite photos. 
352. Cellar Door - 10/18/2000 11:14:06 AM
Where did you get that one, Deev?
353. theDiva - 10/18/2000 11:15:49 AM
From my dad.
354. Cellar Door - 10/18/2000 11:16:27 AM
Is that you?
355. theDiva - 10/18/2000 11:19:46 AM
Me and my momma. I was about three weeks old, Mom was all of, what, 22? Isn't she cute?
356. marjoribanks - 10/18/2000 11:23:24 AM
That is a beautiful photo, Diva. I especially like the tear and the worn look it has. It could be depression-era. But I'm guessing its a precious family heirloom.
One of these days I'll get a scanner and post some of my own prized shots.
In the meantime keep these coming folks, they are priceless and meaningful.
357. theDiva - 10/18/2000 11:30:51 AM
Thanks, yes, it is very treasured. I think it's my favorite picture of the two of us. My father is a fine photographer and worked professionally for a time before my brothers and I were born.
This is my favorite picture of me and Gracie. She's about 6 months old here, and betrays no sign whatsoever of what a colicky little imp she was at the time. 
358. Cellar Door - 10/18/2000 11:30:55 AM
Awwwwwwwwwwwwww.
359. Indiana Jones - 10/18/2000 11:34:54 AM
Deev: 357...very nice.
360. theDiva - 10/18/2000 11:36:26 AM
thanks, Indy. My ex is pretty handy with a camera, too.
361. marjoribanks - 10/18/2000 11:37:30 AM
Lovely. I, ahem, have been warming up to the mother-baby dynamic only now. I can understand why the Madonna and child image has been such a powerful tool for the Church.
362. marjoribanks - 10/18/2000 11:38:53 AM
If shutterfly weren't down I'd post my own attempts at capturing this dynamic.
363. theDiva - 10/18/2000 11:41:26 AM
Banks
thanks...I'll just bet you have. Fatherhood tends to do that to a man.
364. labwabbit - 10/18/2000 2:50:02 PM
Maple Sapling and Rock,
Passaconaway, New Hampshire, 1953 
Maple Leaves and Pine Needles, Tamworth,
New Hampshire, October 3, 1956 
Red Osier, near Great Barrington,
Massachusetts, April 18, 1957 
Hawkweed in Meadow,
Great Spruce Head Island, Maine, 1968 
365. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 10/18/2000 3:17:42 PM
This is a brilliant Quicktime Movie about truth in advertising that's well worth the download time.
366. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 10/18/2000 3:21:07 PM
Sorry! TRY THIS
367. labwabbit - 10/18/2000 3:59:52 PM
368. marjoribanks - 10/20/2000 12:50:27 PM
Photography made its way to India pretty soon after the first modern cameras were invented. The earliest photographs taken can broadly be divided into two general categories. One, the photos of exotica and pomp and splendour captured by British and other visitors. There are many books on this stuff, parades and tiger shoots and memsahib lawn parties etc. Then there are the portraits, maily commissioned by Indians and taken by pioneers like Deen Dayal. Initially, only the maharajahs and the wealthy could afford these. Later, photo studios became very popular with all classes.
In the last 40-50 years, India has produced at least half-a-dozen superlative photographers and more emerge each year. Its a picturesque and diverse place after all.
But the finest of all of these is now dead. Raghu Rai, a member of Magnum and a stellar artist. I'm going to post some of his shots and lets see if all of you are struck by his work as much as I am. 
369. marjoribanks - 10/20/2000 12:52:20 PM
370. marjoribanks - 10/20/2000 12:53:17 PM
371. marjoribanks - 10/20/2000 1:00:25 PM
The collection of shots I've linked from is paltry. But I'm too busy to go find a better and more representative selection. Maybe later.
372. mgleason - 10/20/2000 1:02:07 PM
Great shots, Diva, both of them. The expression on your mother's face is so poignant.
373. marjoribanks - 10/20/2000 1:05:18 PM
Oh yeah,
Aperture has a very nice book on British Indian photography entitled 'The Last Empire'. If you're at all interested in this stuff, its the best collection out there.
374. marjoribanks - 10/20/2000 1:08:00 PM
Oh yeah,
Aperture has a very nice book on British Indian photography entitled 'The Last Empire'. If you're at all interested in this stuff, its the best collection out there.
375. marjoribanks - 10/20/2000 1:08:53 PM
Decent scholarly article on the context for that early photography in India.
376. theDiva - 10/20/2000 1:22:47 PM
Maria
Thank you. It really is my very favorite one of the two of us.
377. Fraaankster - 10/20/2000 1:34:42 PM
Deev,
Beautiful pictures. I think this is only my second time coming in here. A posting in the Cafe about you being in here compelled me to check you out this morning.
Yep, that's your mom. There's a striking resemblance, and what was that Gracie smiling all about ? :)
I wish I could post in here, but as it is right now, I'm more likely to bear children before I can bear gifs. :(
Hmmmmm. What else is in this thread ?
378. theDiva - 10/20/2000 1:36:28 PM
Frank
Thanks, I wish I looked like my mom! I have her eyes and that is about it. Otherwise I am purely my dad. Put a beard on me and you couldn't tell us apart.
Anyway, you should roll back to the beginning of the thread. There's some beautiful, moving photos in here.
379. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 10/21/2000 12:43:32 PM
I can't believe no one responded to the Quicktime movie I linked.
Is it because I linked it or did the arrogant bunch of snots around here find it unworthy?
380. bloodnfire - 10/21/2000 12:59:12 PM
Wow Diva. What a lovely young girl, and a great looking Moma!
381. JudithAtHome - 10/21/2000 1:07:04 PM
Wiz:
I tried to download it and it crashed my computer...
382. JudithAtHome - 10/21/2000 1:07:55 PM
....maybe "froze" is a better word. Anyhow, it didn't work for me; sorry.
383. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 10/21/2000 1:59:45 PM
Thanks for responding Judith and sorry for the crash -- it was an amazing effort and I think you might have enjoyed it.
384. JudithAtHome - 10/21/2000 2:15:50 PM
Wiz:
When my husband gets home, I'll ask him to check it for me; I thought we had that capability on our computer but maybe I did something wrong to foul it up...anyhow, if I am able to get it, I will definitely let you know what I think of it!
385. PelleNilsson - 10/21/2000 2:38:49 PM
Wizard
That link is no longer working. I get the site OK but there is an announcement that it has been restructured.
386. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 10/21/2000 7:34:31 PM
J@H & Pelle -
I don't know what's going on. When I go to the link, it works pefectly for me -- but I have a MAC and it may very well be soley for the graphics crowd who support the MAC OS. My friend who sent it works for a big ad agency and I know they only use MACs.
I've emailed you both the files.
387. RustlerPike - 10/22/2000 3:40:27 PM
John McColgan, the BLM firefighter who took this photo Aug. 6 during fires in the Bitterroot Valley, says he "just happened to be in the right place at the right time" with his digital camera.
388. PelleNilsson - 10/22/2000 3:46:31 PM
Rustler
Nice pic but it is 400K!. Please go to Notices and check out a recent post of mine re free compresseion software.
389. RustlerPike - 10/22/2000 4:09:08 PM
Plane getting hit by lightning. How does one compress an animated gif?
390. theDiva - 10/23/2000 8:25:45 AM
sorry, Wiz, it crashed my browser at home and now I get an error message here at work.
391. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 10/23/2000 11:44:19 AM
Thanks for responding Deev -- I guess it was yet another hopeless effort on my part.
Happy Halloween! 
392. theDiva - 10/23/2000 11:46:38 AM
Now that's scary!
393. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 10/23/2000 11:53:28 AM
...and previews of coming attractions if people remain complacent (...but that's for another thread -- even though that thread over-stimulates my gag reflex!). 
(Delete this post if necessary)
394. Angel-Five - 10/23/2000 12:32:38 PM
Diva:
Those are truly lovely photographs. But I wish you hadn't posted them. Now when conversing with you I will constantly be reminded that in a certain light you look like Carrie Ann-Moss from the Matrix, and will therefore be apt to talk stupid.
395. theDiva - 10/23/2000 12:41:58 PM
I look like who?
396. theDiva - 10/23/2000 12:42:14 PM
and thank you. Gracious, my manners.
397. Angel-Five - 10/23/2000 12:46:04 PM
Trinity. From the matrix. (And I never realized how splendidly ironic that is until just now.)
398. theDiva - 10/23/2000 12:47:35 PM
I don't remember her, I'll have to go look. I hated that stupid damned movie.
399. theDiva - 10/23/2000 12:51:46 PM
Diva preparing for her first lunch date with Angel Five. 
400. Angel-Five - 10/23/2000 12:54:40 PM
Nonsense. For one, Carrie is undoubtedly wearing something under that suit.
BTW, the previews for Red Planet look very, very bad.
401. theDiva - 10/23/2000 12:56:47 PM
hahahaha
darling, my chastity belt and habit will be firmly in place.
402. Angel-Five - 10/23/2000 4:46:39 PM
Angel makes a strategic purchase before his lunch date with Diva:
403. stostosto - 10/24/2000 7:06:25 AM
Wiz, I saw the film you linked, and I thought it hilarious. Thank you.
404. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 10/24/2000 11:03:55 AM
sto- Oh thank you for letting me know -- I was beginning to feel like...Ralph Nader?
405. labwabbit - 10/26/2000 5:29:41 PM
My perception of "moties" interaction with other "moties". 
There's always that one who appears to wander against the shadowy flow.
406. Cellar Door - 10/26/2000 5:31:12 PM
Very "Brazil."
407. labwabbit - 10/26/2000 5:48:34 PM
Hear What I See 
408. labwabbit - 10/26/2000 5:52:08 PM
CD
What does your inference of "brazil" mean?
409. Angel-Five - 10/26/2000 5:58:39 PM
It's a movie.
410. CalGal - 10/26/2000 6:07:28 PM
Koki Surfers
411. ChristinO - 10/26/2000 6:45:49 PM
Sorry, I know these aren't photos but I was so struck by them I had to include them. They're engravings by Giovanni Piranesi 
412. ChristinO - 10/26/2000 6:50:10 PM
Terry Gilliam is a god.
These are from Brazil. 
413. Angel-Five - 10/26/2000 8:06:05 PM
414. Angel-Five - 10/26/2000 8:10:56 PM
415. Angel-Five - 10/26/2000 8:45:31 PM
I know Herr Marjmeister wants us to attribute these things. But I don't know who shot this, it's a take of the Forbidden City posted in an online community.
416. Angel-Five - 10/26/2000 9:03:59 PM
Kay-chin Tay, a kumbarisekam ceremony.
417. Angel-Five - 10/26/2000 9:07:33 PM
Kay-chin Tay, Singapore, National Day
418. Angel-Five - 10/26/2000 9:12:24 PM
Same, in Sri Lanka:
I believe that we're seeing tai chi, or something like it, which is interesting against the infinity of the ocean with the straight-on waves rolling in.
419. pseudoerasmus - 10/26/2000 9:48:46 PM
an Ainu couple (the Ainu are the indigneous people of Japan)
420. marjoribanks - 10/27/2000 1:48:44 PM
Damn, those Ainu are REALLY wierd looking. Kind of what I'd imagine Mongols from 200 years ago to look like. Tattooed lips? I've seen that before somewhere but can't remember. Outside the lower east side, I mean.
Five, those are very nice images all. But what is it that is capturing your fancy? I'd really like to get some blurbs out of you guys. Too many images in a row are both disconcerting and slow to load. By the way, that Sri Lanka shot you posted is most certainly not of tai chi. It's three pudgy Tamilians in lungis indulging in what passes for exercise among Tamilians.
421. marjoribanks - 10/27/2000 1:50:29 PM
The detail from the Forbidden City is quite astonishing. There are some structures like that which just astonish more as you move closer to them. Actually, the detail on the Taj Mahal comes to mind though of course the intricacies are Moghul and not this wild chinoiserie.
422. marjoribanks - 10/27/2000 1:57:47 PM
Now, I'm going to post some images which may or may not really belong in this thread. They're a series of works created by Robert Rauschenberg for the United Nations conferences that dotted the 90's. I like them a lot and they're more or less typical of his last few years of collage works. And, at least to me, they really capture the expressed purposes of these huge gala UN conferences with big themes like environment, population and habitation.
The first, 'Choices and Responsibilities', was created for the Cairo conference run by UNFPA (the population agency of the UN). 
423. marjoribanks - 10/27/2000 2:02:37 PM
This next one is the first one Rauschenberg put together and its the weakest of the three, in my opinion. Its preachy little blurb could have been omitted, but it still has a certain punch to it what with the juxtaposed thematic images. The artist has a long history of creating and donating art to "worthy" causes, by the way. 
Anyway, Rauschenberg actually attended all three conferences. They were huge glitzy parties in many ways with the usual suspects hanging along like Jane Fonda and Bianca Jagger and even Jello Biafra.
424. marjoribanks - 10/27/2000 2:05:55 PM
For various reasons, I like the population one the best. But most people consider this last one (made for the UN conference on human settlements in Istanbul) the most significant work. 
425. marjoribanks - 10/27/2000 2:08:36 PM
I love the way Rauschenberg creates these and so many of his other collage-type works. He's a master at this, really, taking otherwise generally run-of-the-mill photographs and screening them together into a genuine and meaningful large-scale work of art. Of course, he used to do it with objects. But I far prefer what he does with images.
Anyone else have a favorite Rauschenberg on these lines? Or something similar from another artist?
426. mgleason - 10/27/2000 2:19:11 PM
RAUSCHENBERG, Robert
Retroactive I
1964
Oil and silkscreen ink on canvas
84 x 60 in. (213.4 x 152.4 cm)
Wadsworth Athenuem, Hartford, Connecticut 
427. marjoribanks - 10/27/2000 2:23:33 PM
Ooh, good one.
I've decided that Rauschenberg is officially one of my very favorite artists. I saw his mammoth retrospective at the Guggenheim a while ago and was disappointed by thats the curators fault obviously. He tosses off these really gripping works all the time - there are so many easily available on-line that I've never ever seen or even heard of.
428. mgleason - 10/27/2000 2:38:04 PM
I admire Rauschenberg quite a lot, myself. Retrospective I resonates very strongly with me, as that era left an indelible impression. The two most powerful images from my early years are the slaughter at the Bay of Pigs (my mother was imprisoned for about six weeks for being a 'counter-revlutionary;' my father was already a political prisoner) and the assassination of the President. Had I any talent, I'd create a collage and call it Childhood's End.
429. marjoribanks - 10/27/2000 2:44:11 PM
Maria,
It's a great documentarial (is there such a word) piece. Rausch has the knack for this stuff. I wonder if there's a book or something I can get with only these kinds of works by him. I haven't found anything yet.
But thanks for linking that image, it is special indeed and exactly what I was trying to talk about above.
430. mgleason - 10/27/2000 2:56:44 PM
Marj,
Here's a book you can order from the Guggenheim: Robert Rauschenberg: A Retrospective.
431. marjoribanks - 10/27/2000 3:08:08 PM
Maria,
That's the accompanying volume to the disappointing exhibition I mentioned above. But thanks for responding.
432. mgleason - 10/27/2000 3:15:07 PM
There's also Robert Rauschenberg, which an amazon.com reviewer says contains images of Rauschenberg's 'political and social issues.' It was published in January of this year.
433. marjoribanks - 10/27/2000 3:26:03 PM
Hmm. That one looks very promising. Must check it out this weekend at Strand.
434. labwabbit - 10/27/2000 8:37:24 PM
Ahhh... marjb
It looks like this thread is coming alive once again! This is like a sanction of 'white-noise' to temporarily block out the hum-BUZZ of the rest.
435. PelleNilsson - 10/28/2000 3:14:35 AM
If we are allowed to post paintings I can indulge a bit in my love of the old Dutch masters, in particular the portraits. Here is Sir Brian Southwell painted by Holbein. Look at the man's calm assurance. 
436. PelleNilsson - 10/28/2000 3:16:58 AM
I reduced the size of the above from 138K to 25K by using the free software I linked to in Notices, message #1325.
437. labwabbit - 10/28/2000 1:09:09 PM
PN
DO indulge!
438. mgleason - 10/29/2000 5:30:03 PM
439. Cellar Door - 10/29/2000 5:57:56 PM
What a cutie!
440. Cellar Door - 10/29/2000 5:58:29 PM
Very Velasquez, actually.
441. mgleason - 10/29/2000 6:08:49 PM
Ah, thanks, Cellar. It's odd, but I get that impression, too - it's the reason I posted it.
442. marjoribanks - 11/1/2000 11:09:52 AM
Nice photograph, Maria. Any background or further comments? I find it very interesting and valuable to get a little context for the images we post here.
443. marjoribanks - 11/1/2000 11:15:11 AM
Now, there is a long list of photographers and artists I'd like to highlight in this thread. Most tend towards the more serious and 'artistic'. But there are also so many photographers whose work has been more commercial but who also have thrilled us and need to be looked at here. Fashion, by itself, deserves a long hard look in this thread.
But today I'd like to look at the work of Walter Iooss Jr. The name may not be familiar to you but if you've ever looked at Sports Illustrates magazine or are at all a sports fan you've absorbed some of his indelible images. His signature shots of people like Michael Jordan and Cal Ripken are so identified with the individuals that they've become iconic. (I'm not even going to get into the swimsuit shots). Think of a great sports photograph you've encountered and it is more than likely this guy took it.
Annoyingly, there aren't that many good ones available on the WWW since SI (and Iooss) makes very good money selling them. But I'll track down a few and post some more about them in a bit. 
Carl Lewis shocks the world and himself by leaping for a final (9th) gold medal.
444. marjoribanks - 11/1/2000 11:22:23 AM
445. marjoribanks - 11/1/2000 11:25:27 AM
Well, I really want the sports action photos, since those are the ones that really stand out. Iooss is as close to a master at those as exists, because for a number of reasons it is often extremely difficult to create iconic images from the chaos of a fleeting sports moment.
But, bah humbug, portraits are all I'm finding so I'll post some for your consideration. 
Kevin Garnett
446. marjoribanks - 11/1/2000 11:28:21 AM
Eh, I'm going to start looking again later. In the meanwhile, here's one of the swimsuit issue photos. I really wanted to avoid them for now - but can't find the action shots I'm looking to highlight. 
447. marjoribanks - 11/1/2000 11:35:30 AM
de La Hoya 
448. mgleason - 11/1/2000 6:06:15 PM
Thanks, Marj.
It is 18 September 1957. The the lily is gilt with hand-embroidered silk organza and taffeta. Note the world-weary expression worthy of an Infanta.
449. Jenerator - 11/3/2000 12:56:27 AM
A place where I would like to be right now: 
Lake Schrader, Alaska.
450. Jenerator - 11/3/2000 1:16:08 AM
Look at this amazing face, there's no telling how old she is. I can't imagine what she's been through. It was shot by Sebastiao Salgado in 1983: 
451. Angel-Five - 11/3/2000 2:09:05 AM
I love, love, love that swimsuit photo. And no, not because she's fine. I absolutely promise. I swear on my halo. Post more.
452. marjoribanks - 11/3/2000 8:51:47 AM
Frankly, I'd rather be in a place like this. 
453. labwabbit - 11/3/2000 2:31:28 PM
This is where I'd like to be right now.... 
Hey I already am!!!
(Don't pinch me anyone)
454. RustlerPike - 11/3/2000 3:01:37 PM
I hate to do this to you, Jen, but this is the original version of the photo you posted. 
455. Jenerator - 11/3/2000 7:12:59 PM
What a difference some facial hair makes, still, there's no telling how old she is!
456. Jenerator - 11/3/2000 7:34:10 PM
Marj,
Is that woman in the boat Yasmeen Ghuri? 
457. Jenerator - 11/3/2000 7:51:43 PM
Wanderlust is one of my favorite magazines. Not only does it offer valuable information about travelling, it features some spectacular photos! The Travel Photographer of The Year contest produces some of the most spectacular shots of places and people from around the world, that I have ever seen. This issue conatins photos of:
Outback Australia
Cambodia
North-east Brazil
Andes to Amazon - behind the scenes of the new BBC series
Festival in Caravaca, Spain
Cleaning the Nile
Namibia photo essay
Bologna
458. RustlerPike - 11/4/2000 7:00:03 AM
What a difference some facial hair makes, still, there's no telling how old she is!
Jen, look at the tattoo on her neck!
459. Angel-Five - 11/4/2000 7:52:41 AM
Bill Brandt, Paul Schofield
460. Angel-Five - 11/4/2000 7:56:00 AM
Brassai, Notre Dame from the Ile St. Louis
461. Angel-Five - 11/4/2000 8:00:59 AM
Roy DeCarava, Coltrane on Soprano
462. Angel-Five - 11/4/2000 8:15:41 AM
Clarence Laughlin, Woman Reflected in a Mirror
463. Angel-Five - 11/4/2000 8:26:59 AM
Arthur Fellig, Their First Murder
464. Angel-Five - 11/4/2000 8:43:06 AM
Sebastio Salgado (and thank you very much, Marj, for introducing this man's work to me)
Children's Ward in the Korem Refugee Camp
465. Angel-Five - 11/4/2000 8:44:32 AM
Marj:
I absolutely steadfastly refuse to comment on any of these works.
466. Angel-Five - 11/4/2000 8:46:22 AM
Sebastiao Salgado, Refugee from Gondan
467. Angel-Five - 11/4/2000 8:46:53 AM
(thinking)
468. Angel-Five - 11/4/2000 9:00:38 AM
I have having to resize photographs to fit the margins. The Fellig photograph, which might be the most striking of the bunch, is horribly garbled-looking. The faces don't look real.
I understand and appreciate why Marj wants us to post blurbs but I think there's nothing in any of mine that a caption would benefit. What do you say to the Salgados, for example, or the young girl's eyes in the murder photo? I think it all speaks for itself nicely.
469. Angel-Five - 11/4/2000 9:05:06 AM
This is better.
470. RustlerPike - 11/5/2000 2:54:47 AM
Angel:
Why are they attacking her?
471. Angel-Five - 11/5/2000 3:57:17 AM
What, in the Weegee picture?
Weegee was a police photographer in New York. There is a dead body at his feet which he was sent to photograph. Everyone you see in the frame has come to gawk at it. I don't think anyone's attacking the little girl in the center, that's just the expression she's wearing as she stares at this wonderful attraction.
Compelling picture, isn't it?
472. Angel-Five - 11/5/2000 3:58:07 AM
Actually, I'm not sure the body is at his feet. But he was photographing it and decided to get one of the crowd.
473. Angel-Five - 11/5/2000 4:02:56 AM
Actually, I think Diva's linked some more of his work upthread. Good stuff, though I don't know why he didn't just stick with Fellig. 'Weegee' sounds like too many things, all of them immature and wet.
474. Angel-Five - 11/5/2000 4:28:43 AM
I notice that I seem to be using the word 'actually' a great deal these days. Very strange.
Another nice Brandt piece.
The thing I love about Brandt is that he takes ordinary subjects, shoots them at normal angles, and still makes them seem strange and different.
He used a wide angle lens on a small camera to take shots like this.
475. RustlerPike - 11/5/2000 4:42:22 AM
A5:
There's definitely some serious pushing and shoving going on in that pic, right behind that girl.
476. Angel-Five - 11/5/2000 5:05:53 AM
I see what you're talking about. I'd say they're jockeying for a better view, but who knows? The round faced woman in the center is the wife of the dead man, who was a petty mobster. Everyone else in the picture is rubbernecking.
477. RustlerPike - 11/5/2000 6:17:44 AM
Well, it was a lot more gruesome when I thought they were murdering that girl. It's better when it's just some mobster, and out of the frame at that. Guess I've seen too many lynches lately.
478. mgleason - 11/13/2000 5:30:33 PM
Eugène Atget, Environs of Paris, 1910 
479. mgleason - 11/13/2000 5:36:04 PM
Eugène Atget, Bar de Cabaret, 1910-11 
480. mgleason - 11/13/2000 5:41:22 PM
Eugène Atget, Saint-Cloud, 1915-19 
481. mgleason - 11/13/2000 5:48:15 PM
A glory of which I could not speak filled me then like a shimmering of sunlight. It was the ten thousand famous photographs Atget had made of a Paris now gone, those great, voiceless images bathed in the brown of gold chloride – I was thinking of them and of their author, out before dawn every morning, slowly stealing a city from those who inhabited it, a tree here, a store front, an immortal fountain.
(Salter, James. A Sport and A Pastime, New York: Modern Library, 1995, pp. 12-13.)
482. mgleason - 11/14/2000 9:56:22 AM
Contrasted against a tropical sun, three Bruneian women in traditional dress wait for a water taxi Tuesday, Nov. 14, 2000, at the river port in downtown Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei. Brunei, a small, oil rich nation, is hosting the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit at which world leaders from 21 Pacific rim nations will attend to discuss trade issues. (AP Photo/Eugene Hoshiko)
483. theDiva - 11/14/2000 10:02:30 AM
The face of the woman in 464 is positively sculptural.
484. labwabbit - 11/15/2000 2:16:01 PM
Went back a few pages...
A wonderful trip. Atget is truly gifted.
While searching for portraits to post a couple of weeks ago, I found myself engrossed in his works...and two hours later...
485. labwabbit - 11/30/2000 6:53:37 PM
Ma-Banks,
Whassup with this thread? 16 days widdout a hit.
Blame it on low-resolution screens?
Sad really. Had potential. Coulda run pic-of-the-day contests?
Nah...I guess that would require judging and voting and we all know where THAT will go eh?
Anyway, just wanted to get this thread to the surface for one more whiff at the top before she settles into the oozing-muck at the bottom of this ol' mote-pond.
486. sakonige - 12/9/2000 9:05:17 PM
SisterDeer looking like her great-grandmother in her TearDress
487. sakonige - 12/9/2000 9:21:37 PM
She's not as angry as she looks.
She's listening to music.
488. sakonige - 12/9/2000 9:22:57 PM
Levis under the skirt.
489. sakonige - 12/10/2000 1:54:05 PM
It's hard to believe I used to think I was prettier than she is.
490. JudithAtHome - 12/10/2000 1:58:55 PM
Well, even if you are as pretty AS her, you're lookin' good, Blue....
491. sakonige - 12/10/2000 2:03:39 PM
I used to be proud that I was less Indian looking than she is. Now I'm a little jealous that she is more Indian looking than me.
492. sakonige - 12/10/2000 2:05:53 PM
493. JudithAtHome - 12/10/2000 2:07:59 PM
You look great!
494. sakonige - 12/10/2000 2:15:12 PM
That child looks bad to the bone.
495. sakonige - 12/10/2000 2:20:40 PM
I look a lot more like my sister now. A lot of people mix us up.
I still don't dare post a current photo of myself, and I'll delete these from the server later. Too many people online hate my guts.
496. JudithAtHome - 12/10/2000 3:29:51 PM
Well, come over to the holiday thread...we don't hate you there.
497. JudithAtHome - 12/10/2000 3:30:57 PM
How'd you delete those pictures, by the way?
498. sakonige - 12/10/2000 4:02:58 PM
Judith, I linked the photos from a collection on my internet service provider's web server, and then got uneasy about the exposure and moved them to a subdirectory so that the links were no longer valid. I'm not concerned with maintaining a corporate image so much anymore, but I was reminded that do still encounter people online who would harm me if they could.
Thanks for your friendly welcome.
499. Jenerator - 12/10/2000 10:08:55 PM
Sakonige,
I was bummed to not see your picture. I've heard that you are quite pretty. For some reason, I have an image of you in my mind from the Fray days as having shorter reddish hair, but then others have said you're brunette.(?)
Post it again sometime, please.
500. altitude /w attitude - 12/10/2000 10:13:46 PM
sakonige
I am sorry it is that way here. It would be great to have a safer forum to post in instead of having to look over your shoulder. The first picture was awesome. I'm sorry I missed the second one.
501. sakonige - 12/10/2000 10:21:50 PM
Jenerator, I'm not that pretty. I look like a 35 year old native American woman with long, straight, almost black hair, grey eyes, and big tits.
502. altitude /w attitude - 12/10/2000 10:34:20 PM
sakonige
Is big breastedness a native-american trait?
503. sakonige - 12/10/2000 10:48:05 PM
No, I think it's Scottish. I also have fine teeth. That is native American.
504. labwabbit - 12/11/2000 12:35:38 PM
sak
Sounds attractive to me! ;->
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