Pelle:
sto doesn't seem to be around but I'm 100% that he will support an Olympics thread. A sports thread without baseball and American football. The relief! The joy!
Sorry to burst your bubble, but baseball is an olympic sport.
2. PelleNilsson - 9/11/2000 1:12:39 AM
And draws about as much attention as synchronized swimming.
3. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/11/2000 1:19:27 AM
Pelle:
In Sweden, maybe.
But in the USA, Canada, Mexico, Cuba, Panama, Venezuela, Dominican Republic, Japan, Korea, China, Australia, Philippines, and Taiwan, it is the among the most, if not the most, popular sports. That's a fair percentage of the world's population.
A lot more people than have an interest in team handball, for example.
4. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/11/2000 1:21:07 AM
Pelle:
I left out the Netherlands, which has a pro baseball league, and has supplied several pro players to the US major leagues (including one of the all-time greats). Of course, in the Netherlands, baseball is a distant second in popularity to soccer, but Dutch fans know their baseball.
5. PelleNilsson - 9/11/2000 1:24:43 AM
Irv
Here is a page for you.
6. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/11/2000 1:42:11 AM
Nice page, Pelle, thanks. I never realized baseball had its roots in Egypt.
I don't think allowing pros to play will do much for the USA's chances, since the US baseball season is in high gear, and the best pros won't play. But it will mean that Japan, which has stocked their team with the very best pro players, will have a chance to overcome Cuba's domination.
This all goes to show we need that Olympics thread soon, so we don't keep clogging up this thread.
7. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/11/2000 1:43:22 AM
I also wouldn't rule out Australia, since they'll be playing on their home turf, though their best players are playing in the USA and are unavailable.
8. Wombat - 9/11/2000 8:19:12 AM
Kent Nilsson will be playing for Australia, won't he?
9. alistairconnor - 9/11/2000 9:02:31 AM
Nilsson schmilsson. How come cricket isn't an Olympic sport?
10. Wombat - 9/11/2000 9:11:13 AM
Because the Olympics go on long enough already (g). I've played cricket, so I am not speaking from Amurrican ignernce.
11. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/11/2000 9:16:45 AM
Wombat:
Who's Kent Nilsson? The only baseball-playing Aussie Nilsson I know (must be a relative of Pelle's) is Dave Nilsson, who will playing on the Aussie squad. In fact, he played this year in Japan only because he would then be able to play in the Olympics for Oz. Expect him back in the USA next year.
The Aussie team has lost 6 of its front-line players recently (3 to injury, 3 to US major league call-ups), but is still rated as a legitimate gold medal contender. The team features some obvious transplants, with names such as Gonzalez and Nakamura, but you can expect strong Aussie support for their team.
But the team will be hurt by not being able to draw on US major leaguers such as Graeme Lloyd, Cameron Cairncross, Jeff Williams, and Luke Prokopec. I haven't seen Australia's full roster, but it might even include long-time major leaguer Craig Shipley.
The favorites for baseball are Japan, Cuba, Australia, the USA, and South Korea (roughly in that order). Of the eight teams competing, don't expect much from the Netherlands, Italy or South Africa (South Africa???).
Of course, if the Olympics truly featured the best in baseball, the showdown would be between the USA, Japan, and the Dominican Republic.
12. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/11/2000 9:18:39 AM
I'd like to see cricket in the Olympics. The limited-overs matches aren't much longer than a baseball game. I'm surprised it isn't at least an exhibition sport in Oz, since the home nation can pick an exhibition sport (what did they pick anyway, Aussie Rules?).
13. Wombat - 9/11/2000 9:40:03 AM
Irv:
I meant Dave Nilsson (I don't know who Kent Nilsson is, now that you mention it).
14. PsychProf - 9/11/2000 2:02:20 PM
Here we go...no xenophobia allowed, cheer for whom you want, bust eachothers chops...let's celebrate the international perspective of The Mote, and then head over to PP's Sportsbar for some on-the house-libations. What a proper thread for out first year anniversary.
15. spunkymisg - 9/11/2000 2:28:52 PM
One day international cricket match runs for a whole day (each team has to throw 50 overs) may be that would be the reason why cricket is not been introduced in Olympics.
1 over=6 balls.
I would like cricket to be introduced in Olympics, Like Irv says, Aussies could have put cricket as there exhibit game. Moreover Cricket is also one of there favourite sport.
16. CalGal - 9/11/2000 2:30:50 PM
You know, I'm quite surprised that cricket isn't in the Olympics. When did team sports begin? (I should look that up).
And hi, spunkymisg!
17. theDiva - 9/11/2000 2:32:41 PM
Hi, spunky, welcome!
=====
a digression.....
A sports thread without baseball....The relief! The joy!
I would like to know just what the heck Pelle Nilsson has against baseball. Hmph.
18. spunkymisg - 9/11/2000 2:35:46 PM
One day international cricket match runs for a whole day (each team has to throw 50 overs) may be that would be the reason why cricket is not been introduced in Olympics.
1 over=6 balls.
I would like cricket to be introduced in Olympics, Like Irv says, Aussies could have put cricket as there exhibit game. Moreover Cricket is also one of there favourite sport.
19. CalGal - 9/11/2000 2:43:17 PM
Spunky, you hit refresh. Don't worry, we all do it at first. Use the VCR buttons at the bottom of the post list to refresh.
20. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/11/2000 2:45:38 PM
PP:
Thanks for hosting this thread. You'll always be my hero.
I'm looking forward to a great thread over the next few weeks.
Watch badminton, folks. Indonesia will kick ass.
Spunky:
Welcome!
I've seen one-day matches completed in 6 hours (with full overs for both sides), and that seems do-able in an Olympic framework.
I recall one match a few years back which lasted 40 minutes... Pakistan vs. South Africa. Lots of ducks, and a rare golden duck, and South Africa scored something like 17 runs (!).
21. spunkymisg - 9/11/2000 2:46:35 PM
Hi cal, Hi Diva
Oops I refreshed the screen and the post got posted twice,I apologize for that. Well, wabbit will beat me up for that error.
It will not happen again.
22. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/11/2000 2:57:40 PM
I just figure out who you are, Spunky. Great to see you!
23. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/11/2000 2:58:20 PM
Add "d" where needed.
24. spunkymisg - 9/11/2000 3:06:22 PM
Hi Irv, Long time
25. Wombat - 9/11/2000 3:06:51 PM
I think Australian Rules Football should be an Olympic sport. We get it on some obscure channel, and it's like American football w/o pads.
26. PelleNilsson - 9/11/2000 3:17:36 PM
Diva
I would like to know just what the heck Pelle Nilsson has against baseball. Hmph.
Baseball is a slow, boring game. Hereabouts, it (or something like it) is only played by kids.
27. theDiva - 9/11/2000 3:18:26 PM
Pelle
With all due respect, I must say that you're full of lutefisk. Baseball is an elegant, endlessly fascinating sport.
28. SnowOwl - 9/11/2000 3:21:19 PM
Diva,
Only somebody who does not watch cricket would refer to baseball as and elegant sport.
29. theDiva - 9/11/2000 3:22:12 PM
Snow
Ain't you never seen Bernie Williams in his pinstripes? Honey......
30. PelleNilsson - 9/11/2000 4:12:52 PM
theDiva is obsessed by men in tight pants. We others are obsessed by sports.
31. theDiva - 9/11/2000 4:14:09 PM
oh, phooey on you. After all, I don't watch that wretched football, do I? And I'd watch baseball even if it weren't played by extremely buff men in tight pants.
32. PelleNilsson - 9/11/2000 4:19:25 PM
Peace.
33. theDiva - 9/11/2000 4:21:06 PM
34. labwabbit - 9/11/2000 4:43:20 PM
Diva
"lutefisk"???
Is that similar to a soft, sticky substance that often is objectionable to the olfactory reponses?
(How are ya?)
35. theDiva - 9/11/2000 4:44:28 PM
see me in the Cafe, big boy.....
36. PelleNilsson - 9/11/2000 5:10:42 PM
I, too, wonder what sport (if any) the Australians have added. If not Aussie rules what then?
Dwarf throwing?
37. CalGal - 9/11/2000 5:49:35 PM
Olympics Site 38. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 6:59:44 AM haha...Cal...what a wonderful site. Thanks for the link. I will put it on the MoteHomePage and this page so all can use it. 39. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 7:00:42 AM toys 40. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 7:10:07 AM 41. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 7:22:47 AM 42. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 7:27:53 AM 43. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 7:33:49 AM 44. Wombat - 9/12/2000 8:42:22 AM Pelle: 45. PelleNilsson - 9/12/2000 8:53:27 AM Ah, the famous Bufo marinus. 46. CalGal - 9/12/2000 10:51:51 AM Prof--if you could find something on Regina Jacobs, I'd be grateful. I can't find anything that says why she dropped out--and I've actually checked three different local papers. 48. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 11:03:12 AM HERE YA GO CAL 49. CalGal - 9/12/2000 11:06:25 AM Thanks, Prof! 50. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 11:09:21 AM Cal...sounds like a question Dusty could deal with...we obviously need some comparative data. 51. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/12/2000 11:10:09 AM Well, I'm excited about the newest Olympic sport... trampolining. I'm certain that few sports possess such rabid international fan devotion. 52. CalGal - 9/12/2000 11:10:17 AM Yes, but I'm wondering for starters if my impression is just off. Maybe there have always been dropouts and I just haven't paid attention. 53. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 11:21:11 AM BEST I COULD DO SNOD...DIRECT LINKS ARE OUT FOR THE NBC PAGE
Check it out if you haven't done so. This is good stuff.
BTW, it seems to me that there have been an inordinately high number of dropouts. I can think of three--Regina Jacobs, one of the miniscule chick gymnasts, and now Hunter. I don't remember hearing of so many noshows the week before.
HUNTER'S STORY
click on photo 
SYDNEY
click on photo 
Cane Toad sniffing.
click on regina jacobs 
That is a bummer.
Does anyone else think that there have been an unusual amount of dropouts this year?
I'd post a link to the great trampolining page at nbcolympics.com, but I'm on a slow connection in a small hotel in Central Java, and I'd never get the page up. Please check it out. 
"The first type of trampolining was done by the
Eskimos, who would toss each other up into the air on a sea lion
skin similar to the sheet used by firemen to catch people jumping from a
house that is on fire. The trampoline itself was first developed by a circus
trapeze artist named Du Trampolin. He saw the opportunity to use the
trapeze safety net as a form of propulsion and as a landing device.
The trampoline consists of a metal frame
supporting the spring bed that the gymnasts bounce off to
perform their routines. The trampoline is 5.05 meters (16.5 feet) long,
2.91 meters (9.5 ft.) wide and 1.155 meters (3.6 ft.) high. The bed is made
from nylon or string material and is only about 6 millimeters thick. A large,
thick mat, known as the safety platform, sits on the floor at each end of the
trampoline. It is designed to cushion the impact if anyone falls from the
trampoline. Men and women may compete in socks or gym shoes.
There will be a men's and women's
competition in Sydney. While there are various trampoline
events, including synchronized and double-mini, only individual
trampoline is an Olympic sport. In individual trampoline, a competitor
performs two routines: compulsory and voluntary."
54. RosettaStone - 9/12/2000 11:57:00 AM
Thanks for the NBC Olympics web site. It looks great. BUT...
...I remember reading somewhere that NBC wasn't planning to use its web site in innovative ways, especially giving real-time, streaming video/audio of the sporting events because it wanted to control video information until its prime-time programming.
The sports columnist was begging them to put in on their web site in real time saying that few people would watch it anyway because the technology is so primitive and most people still use the phone lines to download the internet. Yet it would be really cool for those who did have cable hookups.
Anyone know anything else about the decision-making on the part of the NBC executives. If true, it's especially disappointing because of their connection to MSNBC.
55. PelleNilsson - 9/12/2000 1:05:47 PM
Rosetta
It is IOK, the Olympic Committee that is to blame. They have not kept up with developments and have not prepared arrangements for how to license streaming media.
BTW, those who have digital TV here will be able to see five parallel channels from Sydney featuring different sports.
56. PelleNilsson - 9/12/2000 1:06:22 PM
Sorry, that's IOC in English.
57. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 2:02:00 PM
58. JudithAtHome - 9/12/2000 2:21:29 PM
I wish I had a dish for the Olympics because the network that televises the games here invariably shows only the Americans...or at least, 98% only Americans and how they fare in the competitions. The last Olympics, I was always amazed when some foreign athelete got attention from the American Network.
The Up Close & Personal interviews...Americans. The after competition interviews...Americans. The pre competiton interviews...Americans. If foreigners win, it's "and taking the silver, American so-and-so of such-and-such. Oh, and Francois took gold."
59. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 2:33:18 PM
Judith...what would you do if you were runnin the show...
60. CalGal - 9/12/2000 2:36:18 PM
What's really awful, Judith, is that they have made those changes in the name of .... women. And they have succeeded because of it. Tragic, isn't it?
I have digital cable--will I get more Olympics coverage?
61. janjon - 9/12/2000 2:47:58 PM
Bah humbug.
Carry on.
62. PelleNilsson - 9/12/2000 2:52:22 PM
Trampolining - another ridiculous "sport". If I had my way I would cleanse the Games from all sports that involve subjective judgment and only leave those that are decided by measurable results.
63. CalGal - 9/12/2000 2:55:36 PM
Well, then you'd lose the US.
64. PelleNilsson - 9/12/2000 2:57:43 PM
Why?
65. CalGal - 9/12/2000 2:59:52 PM
Because it's the "soft" sports (gymnastics, iceskating) that get the US interested. US track stars are gods in Europe, and barely cared about here. We have more interesting team sports, generally, than the Olympics have.
66. CalGal - 9/12/2000 3:05:21 PM
Oh,I forgot--another key sport of American interest is boxing, which would be KO'ed (heh) by your requirement. Or is that completely points based now?
You know, I should qualify: I'm being flip. We watch the Olympics because we love the spectacle, the pomp, etc. But the Olympics television ratings were in serious trouble in 88 and 92, and it was only the focus on the soft, mushy, non-sports stuff that got everyone interested. In short, they needed the chicks. Why? Well, because the menfolk weren't watching in big enough numbers. Why? At least partly because they don't care much about the Olympic sports.
So it would be risky to take away all the judging sports--many of which are favored by women--and I doubt the Americans would stand for it. And without American money, I believe the Olympics would be in trouble. They pay a hefty fee for broadcasting rights.
67. PelleNilsson - 9/12/2000 3:13:15 PM
You surprise me. Marion Jones, Maurice Green, Michael Johnson are not big names in the US?
Does anyone actually look at or care about the gymnastics outside of the Olympics?
We have more interesting team sports, generally, than the Olympics have.
As far as I know it's only football of the "American" team sports that's not represented.
Thinking about it I would do away with weight-lifting as well. First, it's the most doping-infested of all sports. Second it produces competitors that look like mutants, in particular in the light classes. These men (and women) are midgets 4-4½ ft tall and packed with muscles.
Women gymnastics is close to that. There hasn't been a normal-looking woman competing since that slightly oriental-looking Russian disappeared from view in the early 80's.
68. PelleNilsson - 9/12/2000 3:16:26 PM
I'm being flip too. It's fun to hash these things out. Too bad we can't do it over a beer (or whatever you fancy).
By the way, PP, can one get any of the cyberbooze here or does one have to slip into the Bar?
69. CalGal - 9/12/2000 3:18:24 PM
You surprise me. Marion Jones, Maurice Green, Michael Johnson are not big names in the US?
No. Certainly not as they are in Europe. Or so it is regularly reported.
Does anyone actually look at or care about the gymnastics outside of the Olympics?
The worlds do pretty well. Although gymnastics never took off as hugely as iceskating, which became so popular that it ruined the sport.
As far as I know it's only football of the "American" team sports that's not represented.
I mean the quality of the play. Our basketball and baseball--the only two sports we care about--are far superior to the quality of Olympic play. As you say, football isn't in the Olympics. And we don't, as a general rule, give a damn about the other sports.
There hasn't been a normal-looking woman competing since that slightly oriental-looking Russian disappeared from view in the early 80's.
That will change a bit--they have disallowed competition by anyone younger than 16.
70. CalGal - 9/12/2000 3:18:50 PM
Gosh, I don't usually do that.
71. CalGal - 9/12/2000 3:19:11 PM
toy hell.
72. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 3:27:21 PM
Pelle...not only does PP's Sportsbar deliever over here, but I have it on good word that a number of our female partrons have volunteered to demonstrate the trampoline for Snod...for some reason a big turnout(on) is expected.
73. PelleNilsson - 9/12/2000 3:29:36 PM
PP
Yeah, all that bouncing ....
74. JudithAtHome - 9/12/2000 3:52:14 PM
PsychProf:
If I were running the show, I'd have interviews with the winners, no matter if they were Americans or not. I'd have Up Close & Personal stories as filler on ALL the atheletes slated to do well in ALL the sports and I'd have translators everywhere so if an upset occured, we'd be able to speak with the winners in the flush of victory, not to the Americans who lost. I'd encourage my reporters to get excited at the outcome of the contests, not just at the Americans winning or placing in top three. In other words, I'd act as if this were an International Event rather than an event where Americans can kick ass and if they don't, well, no big whup.
75. PelleNilsson - 9/12/2000 4:01:16 PM
CalGal
So it's the female audience that counts in the US? That certainly puts another perspective on things.
On boxing. The referees have hit counters but it's still subjective. What is a hit? and they see the action from different angles. But to be frank. boxing is a primitive sport, caveman-like, but fascinating (in my view). And the big moment is the knock-out. In today's amateur boxing the type of gloves they use and the protective head-gear makes a knock-out virtually impossible. I don't watch it anymore.
76. labwabbit - 9/12/2000 10:02:41 PM
Olympics...
"The game down under." (the table).
77. PsychProf - 9/13/2000 7:14:48 AM
Judith...NBC is conducting a money making adventure, not a culture lesson. Nowhere in your senario does it include the "viewer number" implicatons of your actions...don't you(NBC) have to consider ratings? I'm not saying yer way won't work...but...convince me...we're talking big bucks here. "Americans" like to watch "Americans" and "American Sports"...perhaps a better "mix" is called for...I know if I'm runnin the show, I want a large audience watching what I put on. Indeed, with NBC, MSNBC, and CNBC covering the games(arn't they?) we might have a more eclectic approach.
79. JudithAtHome - 9/13/2000 9:13:10 AM
PsychProf:
They haven't thus far. I'm not trying to steal money from the coffers of NBC. I think people will watch the Olympics no matter what a network shows of them...it is supposedly a very big deal. But for once every four years, what is the harm in showing the diversity of the world?
You say this is a sporting event, not a cultural lesson. I'm saying it could be both. My way would sneak in some educational benefits for this country. Surely it couldn't hurt for us to be reminded that we are not the only country that does things well. We always hear about the Global Village...whay not use the Olympics as an example of that? Aside from the opening and closing ceremonies, we see very little of the other contestants because we're being shown "The Americans!!"
This is an International event and if one is watching from America, it is hard to tell anyone has entered the Games but Americans. I'm proud of our guys but I'd like to see some credit given to the others, too. Maybe I'll be surprised, who knows? I'm basing this on my reactions to the last Olympics coverage, where the World got short shrift and it seemed as though the only people there were from the USA.
80. PsychProf - 9/13/2000 9:36:39 AM
Judith...chevie and apple pie...I understand what diversity is about...I'm just suggesting that that is not what viewers might be about. I'm not defending anything, or stating what I think...just trying to characterize what the TV event entails. It will be interesting to assess how parochial USA coverage is.
81. stostosto - 9/13/2000 9:48:02 AM
I think the Olympics should be scrapped.
1. They are boring, too many sports, too many bloody swim heats.
2. They are too big; too many sports, too many bloody swim heats.
3. Football (soccer) has only the second- or third-tier players participating
4. Too many bloody swim heats.
5. Samaranch and bunch should be slapped.
6. At best the games are like 24 different world cups at the same time and place, which is a concept without much merit. At worst they are 24 different second rate would-be world cups and totally meaningless.
7. Their time is way over. Let's move on.
8. Too much damned boxing.
9. Too many bloody swim heats.
82. PsychProf - 9/13/2000 10:02:10 AM
For Sto...
PLACE TO BE
click on photo 
83. theDiva - 9/13/2000 10:06:08 AM
We are track and field junkies in our house. Catch every single event we can, Olympic season and otherwise. Gymnastics, too. (We've even got our own in-house expert - Greg ran track for years, and did competitive gymastics, too. Taught, also.) The Washington Post has a huge Olympics section in today's paper....I'll see if I can find a link to it.
84. theDiva - 9/13/2000 10:08:32 AM
85. PsychProf - 9/13/2000 10:16:04 AM
NBC'S APPROACH TO THE TIME DELAY
86. Jonesatlaw - 9/13/2000 4:00:52 PM
I have to echo JAH's complaints. I hate the endless palaver over the American in 38th place, while we get snippets of the leaders. The olympics are supposed to be more than jingoism. Please, please, show us at least the finals of some of the minor sports before we show the pre-preliminaries of some swim heat complete with gauze filtered flashbacks of the American who gets creamed and eliminated in the early rounds. I don't care what she eats for breakfast, or the time she was injured when she was 16 and almost gave up swimming for cheerleading etc. I don't care what Peton Manning had for breakfast, or how he treats his Momma when I watch the NFL, why should I care about Olympians?
87. PsychProf - 9/13/2000 4:25:38 PM
Jones...do you think Kelloggs should stop sellin Frosted Flakes cuz you don't like them ...we're talking ratings=commercial charges here. How would you and Judith ensure that yer "complaints" make money? It is my impression that NBC puts on events that draw the largest viewing audiences.
88. janjon - 9/13/2000 4:33:17 PM
Heap Big Hype. Lots of Bucks. 50,000 condoms being supplied for the Olympic Village.
At least not all perspective has been lost.
89. PsychProf - 9/13/2000 4:39:56 PM
YA THINK?
click on photo 
90. PsychProf - 9/13/2000 4:49:16 PM
TRUE FOR OLYMPICS?
click on photo 
91. CalGal - 9/13/2000 5:42:01 PM
PP is right--also, until NBC started doing the Olympics in this idiotic fashion, the Olympics tanked in the ratings for a good decade.
92. JudithAtHome - 9/13/2000 7:23:11 PM
Well, fine...let 'em sell toilet paper and Depends and PowerAde all they want. Treat the American public like the sheep they are and pocket all the money and then call it an Uplifting Event. I'm going to be reading the books I just got today, anyhow.
Nice pics, PP...
93. CalGal - 9/13/2000 8:18:36 PM
Judith,
Oh, I agree that it's dreadful. In fact, I'd rather they'd been unsuccessful with the dreck approach, so we could get closer to hard sports. I liked the 88 coverage, myself.
But unfortunately, a lot of women like the junk.
94. JudithAtHome - 9/13/2000 9:24:01 PM
This one doesn't....
95. PsychProf - 9/14/2000 7:04:41 AM
Look...on my TV there will be 3 different networks showing The Games...I will see just about all I can take and have hours for, and I am sure any significant action from anyone anywhere will be videoed to death. I see no evidence that we are being ripped on any front...convince me as the action unfolds if you feel otherwise. What is it ya all want to see that you are being deprived of? How are "women" being patronized? Can't something be interesting to someone w/o judgment? Personally, I find the global celebrations these games bring to be unique...they enlarge my world, increase my aprreciation of international perspective, and are just plain fun.
96. PsychProf - 9/14/2000 7:23:15 AM
HAMMING IT UP
click on photo 
97. PsychProf - 9/14/2000 7:36:40 AM
TORCH
click on rafter and newton-john 
98. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/14/2000 9:22:26 AM
The best article I've seen yet on the Olympics:
Dave Barry on the Olympics
Some excerpts:
Every four years, athletes from all over the world gather to compete in an event that truly epitomizes the purity and non-commercialism of amateur sports: The Coca-Cola IBM John Hancock Visa UPS McDonalds Kodak Panasonic Samsung Sports Illustrated/Time Xerox Olympic Games, brought to you by NBC.
I don't know about you, but I expect to be literally glued to my TV set from the start of the opening ceremonies until the dramatic moment, three weeks later, when the opening ceremonies finally end, and the first actual athletic event (the women's 300-kilometer balloon toss) gets under way. I don't want to miss a single second of the competition!Unless, of course, the competition is won by a foreigner.
I frankly wonder why foreigners are even allowed to compete in the Olympics. They're always messing up the drama for American TV viewers. Like, NBC will broadcast a heartwarming, sentimental, in-depth profile of an American athlete, showing how, through grit and determination, he overcame a disadvantage that would have stymied a lesser person, such as being born without a head. So the American viewers are naturally expecting to see this person win a gold medal -- and then he gets beat by some athlete from some dirtball vowel-impaired nation with a name like ``Gzkmnzksrygyztan'' that doesn't even HAVE McDonalds!
99. CalGal - 9/14/2000 11:08:05 AM
Irv,
Dave Barry is God. His series on the Olympics in Atlanta had me howling.
Sto,
But there are an equal number of track heats. Actually, there are probably more.
PP,
I don't think it is patronizing to women to cater to their wishes. I just find it personally embarrassing that so many folk in my gender category respond to the dreck so beautifully skewered by Barry in Irv's post.
100. PsychProf - 9/14/2000 11:08:30 AM
No head...now there's a story...I can just se PP's moronic "headers" for his incessant pics and links..."Diverse American Heads up Trampoline Team"..."North Dakota Athlete wins by Head"..."Americans Heading For Record Number of Medals"..."County Without Bowels Makes for American Headache"...
101. JudithAtHome - 9/14/2000 11:10:42 AM
You can be sure that the network won't waste any time on a story about the vowel-impaired dirtball nations contestant who actually won by a head...
102. Paradoxical - 9/14/2000 11:53:05 AM
Hi y'all! My first post on this site...thanks for the info, irv. ;-)
I just love the new quirky (read as idiotic) 'sporting events.' My fave at this year's summer games is Trampoline Gymnastics. My fave at the winter games was Sculling. Can't wait until ear piercing becomes an event!! ;-)
Just browsing around...
Para
103. Paradoxical - 9/14/2000 11:53:32 AM
Hi y'all! My first post on this site...thanks for the info, irv. ;-)
I just love the new quirky (read as idiotic) 'sporting events.' My fave at this year's summer games is Trampoline Gymnastics. My fave at the winter games was Sculling. Can't wait until ear piercing becomes an event!! ;-)
Just browsing around...
Para
104. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/14/2000 11:56:10 AM
Hey, Para! Glad you made it. I'll be looking forward to your play-by-play commentary here of the trampolining event.
105. CalGal - 9/14/2000 11:57:34 AM
Hi, Para!
You've hit our "feature", the Refresh double post. Our techie swears by it. Just use the VCR button to refresh. On our front page, there's a link called Mote Interface that explains all this.
Welcome.
106. Paradoxical - 9/14/2000 12:03:57 PM
Oops...what an entrance!
Thanks, CalGal, for the info. There are instructions?? Who knew? Hardly ever reads instructions...please bear with me...I'm not nearly as goofy as I first appear!
Begging forgiveness...already!!! ;-)
107. bubbaette - 9/14/2000 12:14:54 PM
Am I the only one who find it eerie that Jeff MacNelly continues to illustrate Dave Barry columns from beyond the grave?
108. CalGal - 9/14/2000 12:20:06 PM
He died? I missed that.
109. bubbaette - 9/14/2000 12:23:50 PM
a few months ago, which makes me wonder whether Barry and the comic strip "shoe" are channeling the dead or if both were done so far ahead of time that MacNelly and Barry had months of stuff already in the box.
110. CalGal - 9/14/2000 12:29:39 PM
Oh, the latter.
BTW, I didn't know that Dara Torres had made the team! That's fantastic.
111. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/14/2000 12:32:42 PM
My guess is that Barry adapted his column to fit an existing cartoon.
Really, Cal, are you sure it isn't Bubba's first option? Chanelling the dead seems so much more likely.
112. CalGal - 9/14/2000 12:33:54 PM
I am occasionally a tad more literal than I need to be, it's true.
113. OhioSTOPAS - 9/14/2000 3:00:22 PM
Check out the story on page 1C of today's USA Today about how wrestler Matt Lindland achieved a spot on the Olympic team despite losing the Olympic qualifying match to Keith Sieracki. Lindland took the decision to arbitration (to which Sieracki was not a party!) and an arbitrator ordered a rematch to be held in a few days. Lindland won the rematch and is off to Sydney, and I'll bet Sieracki still doesn't know what hit him.
114. glendajean - 9/14/2000 3:15:39 PM
Which is also true of the 99% of the people watching collegiate or Olympic wrestling. One of the more oblique sports.
115. CalGal - 9/14/2000 3:17:50 PM
Ohio,
Got link? That sounds shitty--and in a world where Johnson and Green aren't in the 200, dreadfully odd.
116. stostosto - 9/14/2000 3:57:22 PM
Cal:
Sto,
But there are an equal number of track heats. Actually, there are probably more.
Yes, but they are not boring in the same bloody way that swimming is. It's really the closest thing to watch paint dry. If you splash a spot of paint on your wall, you can watch which drop makes it first all the way to the floor. If you watch a swim heat you can see eight different spots of white water moving, featuring the occasional bathing hood or arm. Most of the time you can't even tell which one is ahead, and the only way to keep score is by way of the text on the screen and the commentator. It's just, like, totally boring.
117. CalGal - 9/14/2000 3:59:36 PM
Sto,
Oh. Well, while I was involved in track and field and volleyball idly while in jr high and high school, I swam competitively for 13-14 years. So I guess I'll have to disagree about how boring it is.
118. glendajean - 9/14/2000 4:01:51 PM
You mean other countries compete in the Olympics besides the Americans? Do they get to hear their national anthem played when they when the gold, too?
Sto -- swimming was more interesting when the men didn't wear shark skin suits.
Last night my partner and I had drinks with a guy here in town who also studied for a year in Denmark. They spoke in Danish and told old stories.
119. stostosto - 9/14/2000 4:02:55 PM
And then they have, like, breast, and back, and stroke and crawl and free style and medley, and relay, and 100m, 200m, 400m, 800m, 1500m, and men, and women, and preliminaries and semi-finals, and finals, and loser's finals, and probably about seven more parameters to multiply everything by. It's just so fantastically out of proportion.
120. CalGal - 9/14/2000 4:06:47 PM
Well, they have walking and steeplechasing and hurdles and high hurdles and....I'm sure you get the picture.
121. stostosto - 9/14/2000 4:07:59 PM
glenda,
you mean to say that your partner actually speaks Danish? After having studied here for a year? And still does after, how many years again? And that other guy as well? That's amazing.
Did he ever get to pronounce 'rødgrød med fløde' properly? I bet he has heard that one, if you ask him.
122. glendajean - 9/14/2000 4:15:21 PM
Sto -- I think they actually used that phrase last night as the test of whether one could speak Danish.
My partner was back in Copenhagen on business a couple of years ago, and he still marvels at the generosity of Danes tolerating Americans using the language. The other fellow claimed that since the refugee population (his term) has gone up, and tensions with outsiders has risen, that your countrymen are less thrilled at hearing botched foreigners using Danish.
yes, every now an then, we go see a Danish movie so he can hear it.
123. glendajean - 9/14/2000 4:15:44 PM
The other fellow subsribes to some Danish publication, btw.
124. glendajean - 9/14/2000 4:16:38 PM
Subscribes...
(yes, glendajean does quite well in English despite his inablity to spell or type)
125. stostosto - 9/14/2000 4:17:04 PM
Cal,
I am no big fan of what you Murcans insist on calling track and field either. But at least you get to see the athletes' bodies and faces, and, in many cases, their techniques. There is much more food for the eye and the imagination. One of my favourites is high jump. I also like pole vault.
I also admit I was never much of a swimmer myself. While I was told once that my body - oblongish-like as it is - should be well suited for the exercise, I always hated all that water that got in my nose and throat and eyes all the time. I really cursed it and envied other guys their imperviousness to it. How did you manage?
126. CalGal - 9/14/2000 4:20:25 PM
Well, you usually wear goggles. That's eyes. Most people don't swallow water when they swim, so I'm not sure why your throat was bothered.
Nose--that is a skill, I think, but most people learn it early. You just breathe out constantly.
I miss swimming. I also think it's a great sport to watch, because at every length but 50m strategy can play a part. In T&F, the shortest sprints are basically techiquie and speed, but never have time for strategy per se.
127. stostosto - 9/14/2000 4:21:36 PM
glenda
That's marvellous. How about you learning some Danish too, then you can join your partner on his next trip to Denmark and come visit me and speak to me and my wife and kids?
128. glendajean - 9/14/2000 4:24:27 PM
You don't want me to try and speak Danish. Believe me.
He is a musician, a classical singer by training (although an arts administrator now). He can hear anything and adequately recreate it. I have a dull ear. And I'm not so bright. I took two years of German in college over the course of 3 years. I tried to learn Spanish in high school.
But he always claims we're going to Denmark someday. So maybe we'll have a Scandi Mote Union.
129. CalGal - 9/14/2000 4:25:47 PM
shoo
130. glendajean - 9/14/2000 4:27:12 PM
I still say that swimming was more interesting when the men didn't wear shark skin suits ... okay, grumble,shuffle,grumble..I know...bye...
131. CalGal - 9/14/2000 4:28:38 PM
Oh, the swimming stuff is fine. Besides, it's not my job to play thread nanny. I'm just anxious today, sorry.
132. stostosto - 9/14/2000 4:29:46 PM
Well, glenda, if you ever do come by, please let me know so I can have the red carpet out for you.
Cal,
I never had goggles, that's probably a mistake. But nose would still be a problem. I tend to panic over that shit, and it bugs me quite a lot.
133. CalGal - 9/14/2000 4:33:56 PM
Sto,
It's very easy to learn, and if you do panic over it (which a lot of people do), you might want to practice a bit so you don't have that fear.
134. Don S. - 9/14/2000 5:12:34 PM
PelleNilsson: "It is IOK, the Olympic Committee that is to blame ...."
"Sorry, that's IOC in English."
No problem. IOK, UOK.
135. PsychProf - 9/15/2000 7:02:31 AM
IN THE WORDS OF REGIS..."LETS PLAY WHO WANTS TO BE A MEDAL WINNER"
click on ceremony 
136. PsychProf - 9/15/2000 7:04:22 AM
137. PsychProf - 9/15/2000 7:06:05 AM
138. PsychProf - 9/15/2000 7:20:11 AM
DOLLARS AND SENSE?
click on photo 
139. PsychProf - 9/15/2000 7:37:22 AM
ESPECIALLY FOR STO
TIMES HAVE CHANGED(ETHELDA BLEIBTREY CIRCA 1920) 
140. PsychProf - 9/15/2000 7:43:17 AM
LATEST
click on photo 
141. stostosto - 9/15/2000 7:48:25 AM
142. PsychProf - 9/15/2000 9:20:43 AM
usin my stuff...
143. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/15/2000 9:25:35 AM
For those of you who haven't seen the amazing and dazzling opening ceremony in Sydney yet, please take note: I haven't seen it either.
I was on the road all day today, in Jepara and Semarang, Central Java (get out your atlases), and I was unable to watch the ceremony, which was carried live here. But I did get a few live descriptions from my son via cell phone, and it was evidently quite impressive. My son has a unique way of reporting things, which added a delightful twist to the proceedings ("The Slovenians are entering now, and they're smiling.")
144. PsychProf - 9/15/2000 9:29:50 AM
Alliterative...with a corporate twist it would be "Smiling Slovenians Swigging Sprite"...
145. PsychProf - 9/15/2000 10:02:44 AM
MARION WATCH
click on photo 
146. Don S. - 9/15/2000 1:33:20 PM
re: #140
What a horrible development. Scratch that event off my viewing schedule....
147. stostosto - 9/15/2000 5:55:50 PM
PP #142
Just being schmutzig.
148. stostosto - 9/15/2000 6:03:09 PM
PP
Please produce a picture of Olivia Newton-John - but without John Farnham.
I kind of resent that kind of pompous show, but as pompous shows go this one was not the worst, I suppose. It was quite good in its genre, I would say.
Though I only saw about ten minutes in all.
Damn. Aren't I the killjoy. Perhaps my own mood could do with a brush-up. Sigh.
149. SnowOwl - 9/15/2000 6:06:16 PM
I'm glad to see I'm not the only grinch around here.
I'm wondering if I can find a cave to hole up in for the next 2 weeks.
The damn games are inescapable. We got the full opening ceremony live last night, and it's been repeated this morning.
150. CalGal - 9/15/2000 6:08:39 PM
I usually skip the opening ceremonies, except to see the flag bearers. That's an honor, and it's usually some ancient athlete (read 5 years younger than me).
151. glendajean - 9/15/2000 6:13:22 PM
We always watch the opening ceremonies. And the closing ceremonies. And a lot of the in between.
152. janjon - 9/15/2000 6:15:32 PM
The opening and closing ceremonies are better than the half-time festivities at the Super Bowl.
That much I'll say.
Not much more.
Carry on.
153. CalGal - 9/15/2000 6:22:06 PM
Ha. Another ritual I skip.
I am an summer Olympics junkie, for the most part, but I get most of my jones from reading coverage. Television coverage has been horrible for years. I would very much like to know if I've got better coverage on digital.
154. robertjayb - 9/15/2000 10:36:44 PM
.
Candidate for inane commentary medal:
Bob Costas' remark upon the entry of the Bolivians that Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid fled to Bolivia following their U.S. crime spree.
155. CalGal - 9/15/2000 11:26:22 PM
You know, I gotta confess I thought the quartet singing the national anthem was quite good. Singing tight harmony in a huge stadium is not easy.
But now I'm trying to figure out which is worse--the commentary or the monster skit it's covering up.
156. mgleason - 9/16/2000 12:49:52 AM
As a bred-in-the-bone cynic, I can't account for my reaction to opening ceremonies of the Olympic Games. I get positively verklemmt thinking about world harmony and other Olympic ideals, however tarnished they have become.
157. angel-five - 9/16/2000 12:57:53 AM
Apparently there was some bare-breasted woman dancing in the ceremony.
158. jexster - 9/16/2000 1:31:30 AM
I think Katie Kouric and Bob Costas should get married.
159. stostosto - 9/16/2000 1:55:15 PM
mgleason
'verklemmt', indeed.
160. CalGal - 9/16/2000 6:09:02 PM
I realize the finals have already been swum, but still I have to comment on the men's 4x100. It's a good day when you hit .02 seconds off the Olympic record--and just .3 off WR pace--with two alternates.
Popov's style blows me away. The guy easily takes 1 stroke for everyone else's 4, and always looks as if he's leisurely swimming down after a tough practice.
Still, I imagine it's the Americans and the Aussies. If the Aussies have won, they either put together a hell of a time or the American coach picked the wrong four for the relay.
161. CalGal - 9/16/2000 6:10:17 PM
I should have said I have to comment on the trials, which just finished running here.
And yeah, I know I could look it up. But where's the fun in that?
162. jexster - 9/16/2000 11:08:31 PM
Those body suits are crimes against nature. Ian Thorpe's guilty on about 30 counts.
163. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 11:28:36 AM
They didn't show the Latvian Team during the opening cermony march in. Ms PP was not a happy camper. And I concur with Maria...the world seems smaller, if only for a brief moment, or maybe just in my minds eye.
164. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 11:31:57 AM
For Sto... 
165. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 11:39:59 AM
PANTS DOWN
click on photo 
166. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 11:43:42 AM
GREAT EVENT...THE TRIATHALON
click on simon whitfield 
167. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 11:47:39 AM
Rob Barel, Netherlands, Triathlon competitor... 
168. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 11:49:46 AM
Brazilian Team, Sailing Regatta... 
169. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 11:52:48 AM
Zhang Yanqin, China, Ballplayer... 
170. KuligintheHooligan - 9/17/2000 11:59:56 AM
Current medal count has the United States in first with 11 total metals, followed by Australia with 9. The US also has the most gold metals with 4.
China is third with 5 total, and Germany fourth with 4 total metals.
171. KuligintheHooligan - 9/17/2000 12:01:06 PM
I am most interested in the US and its chances for bringing home gold metals in boxing. They have amassed a good team this Olympics, but the Cubans will be hard to beat.
172. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 12:32:50 PM
FOR KULIGAN
click on photo 
173. CalGal - 9/17/2000 1:04:15 PM
The Romanian weightlifting team was sent home after two of them tested positive for drugs du jour.
It's nice to see that the IOC is taking drugs seriously. But I always wonder what can be done to reverse the damage done by the false wins.
In 1992 China won its first ever gold medal in swimming in the 100m freestyle and when the woman got out of the water I said (along with most of the country), "Um. Drugs?" It took no special expertise. "Beefy" and "Chinese" just aren't two adjectives you generally find in front of "woman".
It was obvious, everyone knew it, and yet they walked away with a ton of medals. Four years later, with tougher drug tests, most of the medal winners couldn't even qualify for the finals in the same events.
Nonetheless, their names are still in the record books.
Michelle Smith of Ireland looked baldfacedly into the camera and lied--which isn't as much of an offense as her whining about the accusations that accompanied her not only suspicious but damn near conclusive on their face wins. Two years later, her four year ban for trying to pass a test by spiking her urine with whiskey just confirmed what everyone always knew. (Note to Smith: FloJo was wise enough to quit once the testing methodology got too strict.)
Ireland struck all her records off the books. But she's still described as "three time Olympic gold medalist". They can't take that away from her.
174. CalGal - 9/17/2000 1:04:34 PM
It's not that drugs aren't everywhere, obviously. But in most sports, you get the feeling that the "everyone's doing it" charge is probably true. In swimming, more than most sports, it doesn't hold up. Take a decent female swimmer and give her steroids bulk up her arm muscles and you've got a world record holder in no time--with usually weak technique and a solid upper body. Bulk up a great swimmer and she wouldn't be able to perform nearly as well--it would screw up her technique and feel for the water.
It is not mentioned much in the news, but the new "phenom" Inje de Bruijn (no relationship to Michelle Smith's drug expert hubby) is in her late twenties, was an ordinary swimmer until a couple years ago when all of a sudden she started blowing everyone out of the water. She set a world record once that was rejected because she hadn't tested within 24 hours after the event--no great loss, because the week she got the news she'd broken that time again.
Keep that in mind when you hear about her inevitable wins.
175. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 1:11:36 PM
Cal...see Message # 165
176. CalGal - 9/17/2000 1:17:14 PM
Hey, I missed that. I'd just heard it on the news on the way home from grannysitting.
Did you watch the women's triathlon last night? Great race, I thought.
177. stostosto - 9/17/2000 1:20:18 PM
Message # 162
Thanks, PP.
Is that an eighties pic or what?
I actually think she looked much better than that at the opening. But I had the hardest time stomacking that Farnham character who, she duetted with.
178. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 1:27:42 PM
For Cal...
Winner of the women's Olympic triathlon Brigitte McMahon of
Switzerland stands triumphantly over second place finisher Michellie
Jones of Australia at the finish line Saturday, Sept. 16, 2000. McMahon
won by two seconds. (AP Photo/David Guttenfelder) 
179. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 1:32:27 PM
MORE ON WOMEN'S TRIATHALON
click on mcmahon 
180. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 1:36:35 PM
Hero... 
181. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 1:47:53 PM
Here ya go Sto... 
182. PelleNilsson - 9/17/2000 3:03:39 PM
The punishment for being away .... Irv beat me to the Dave Barry piece.
183. PelleNilsson - 9/17/2000 3:06:42 PM
And there is nothing wrong with swimming because we expect medals there. The first - a bronze - came in the women's 4X100 m free style relay. The US won forllowed by the Netherlands.
Team handball. Sweden-Australia 44-23 (hehehehe)
184. CalGal - 9/17/2000 3:08:45 PM
That third is especially impressive when you consider that the pools all freeze over in the wintertime.
185. CalGal - 9/17/2000 3:09:54 PM
Besides, I wasn't saying there was anything wrong with swimming. In fact, I think it is probably one of the cleaner sports. That's what makes it so frustrating when winners come out of nowhere with times and bodies that could only have been made possible by drug use.
186. PelleNilsson - 9/17/2000 3:40:43 PM
We've got ice breakers.
187. CalGal - 9/17/2000 3:50:41 PM
Ah, so that explains it. Do you know if the Swedes on the team went to American universities? Or are they developing their own program?
188. stostosto - 9/17/2000 4:08:59 PM
PP
Message # 181
Beautiful. Just... beautiful. Thank you. I absolve you from further banning, schmutzig or otherwise. For the time being.
189. PelleNilsson - 9/17/2000 4:13:07 PM
CalGal
Some, but far from all, in the Swedish team go to American universities. It used to be more common in the past.
190. CalGal - 9/17/2000 4:16:44 PM
I was just wondering if they had their own solid program yet, or if it was still based around the fastest ones training in the US. Are there any toprank Swedish swimmers (world wide) that don't go to the US?
The men's Italian team seems to be coming along well.
191. jexster - 9/17/2000 7:35:17 PM
6'5 Seventeen Inch Feet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One can only imagine the size of the thorpedo:)
192. jexster - 9/17/2000 7:58:33 PM
width=400>
Beat Still My Little Heart!
193. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/17/2000 9:12:51 PM
Indonesia picked up its first medal of the games, and its first ever in weightlifting, when woman lifter Lisa Rumbewas took the bronze medal in the 48 kg class on Sunday. In one of those Olympic twists of fate, she missed out on the silver medal because she weighed two ounces more than the American lifter (they lifted the same total).
194. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/17/2000 9:43:27 PM
Lisa wins a medal (for those who can read Indonesian)
By the way, on one of the Indonesian sports sites there is a poll, asking how many gold medals Indonesia will win. The choices are zero, one, two, or three. A bit different from expectations in many countries.
Hey, Pelle, Indonesia is now tied with Sweden in the medals table.
195. jexster - 9/17/2000 9:43:44 PM
How big are HER feet?
196. PelleNilsson - 9/18/2000 2:06:23 AM
CalGal
Our best woman swimmer Theresa Alshammar who has a couple of world records trains in Germany. A number of others who will certainly get to the finals and have a good chance for medals train here at home. No doubt, the practices are heaviliy influenced by American training programmes.
197. PsychProf - 9/18/2000 7:19:11 AM
WAY TO GO
click on flying dutchman 
198. PsychProf - 9/18/2000 7:25:57 AM
Eva Giganti of Italy... 
199. PsychProf - 9/18/2000 7:27:18 AM
Mens Triathlon... 
200. PsychProf - 9/18/2000 7:29:45 AM
Indonesia's Ricky Ahmad Subagja... 
201. PsychProf - 9/18/2000 7:31:33 AM
Sweden's Pernilla Anderson... 
202. PsychProf - 9/18/2000 7:33:12 AM
New Zealand's Barbara Kendall... 
203. alistairconnor - 9/18/2000 10:14:01 AM
A good day for the French... (fleetingly?) second in the medals table, after good showings in canoeing, fencing, cycling, etc...
204. jexster - 9/18/2000 10:45:25 AM
I'd like to do more than "click on" the Flying Dutchman. Meanwhile...
Thorpe, famous for his size 17 ``flipper feet'' that have been compared to an outboard motor....
How does he reduce the drag from his other extremity?
205. PsychProf - 9/18/2000 3:21:16 PM
SYDNEY
click on photo 
206. PsychProf - 9/18/2000 3:23:19 PM
Jex...is this why you like the "Giants"?
207. jexster - 9/18/2000 3:40:30 PM
Psych - That's why I like the Giant Bobby Estallela!
208. ChristinO - 9/18/2000 5:56:52 PM
Pardon if this has been mentioned already but I am extremely disappointed in the Olympic coverage on NBC.
No awards ceremonies and hardly any actual sports. Tons of commercials and endless special featurettes about when some Australian guy saved JFK's life during WWII, how the Opera House was built and meaningless, contrived photo montages of atheletes we don't get to watch compete.
What's the deal?
209. ChristinO - 9/18/2000 5:59:53 PM
I'm also sick of the rather cynical commentary. They were going on and on about the Little Hercules last night as if he's some kind of failure because he didn't win Olympic gold for the SIXTH time. Like all of his past acheivements mean nothing in the face of a single competition.
They're doing this for ALL the events. I mean, yes the Olympic competition is an awesome thing but can't they find any freaking joy in it other than who wins the gold? What a dour bunch of drama queens these commentators are.
210. CalGal - 9/18/2000 6:05:07 PM
I've very much missed the awards ceremonies. The only one I've seen is the 400 free.
The swimming commentary has actually been pretty good, although I could do with more reminders of deBruijn's questionable status and not quite so much dismissal of Jenny Thompson once she didn't get her gold. You know, she had very little chance of getting one going in, and she knew it. So why make it seem like a failure?
211. ChristinO - 9/18/2000 6:09:20 PM
Exactly, they're just dour as hell. THey take more pleasure out of being malcontents and playing up the agony of defeat than the joy of triumph.
212. PelleNilsson - 9/19/2000 3:30:00 AM
Gold for Sweden today in the women's trap shooting. An important and significant sport.
213. PsychProf - 9/19/2000 7:32:04 AM
SWEDISH SHARPSHOOTER
click on pia hansen 
214. CalGal - 9/19/2000 9:37:04 AM
The ratings for the Olympics have been lower than any time in recent history. Well, duh. Put the events on a 20 hour delay, make sure that your own website and every other media outlet in the world trumpets the results when they occur, and then see how many people watch.
I don't understand why they don't run them live, like they did with the Seoul Olympics.
215. mgleason - 9/19/2000 9:51:43 AM
Did anyone happen to catch a commercial that ran during the opening ceremony that featured parts of The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock?
Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.
Bad marketing, in my case. I was thrilled to hear the verses, but forget the product.
216. CalGal - 9/19/2000 9:58:17 AM
I remember the verses now that you mention them, but can't remember the product. I remember thinking it was a silly commercial.
But then, that silly one about Visa check cards and the tattoo that ends up Don just cracks me up. So I'm probably not the target audience for Prufrock advertising.
217. glendajean - 9/19/2000 10:00:42 AM
I missed that, Maria.
The tv sports critic for the NY Times today gave NBC fair to good marks for its coverage. They particularly praised the women's triatholon -- the woman who produced it has a particular passion for the sport.
As far as awards ceremony, at least they're showing other countries getting awards (a first, it seems to me).
I for one am thrilled that John Tesh isn't doing men's gymnastic coverage, but must say that I cannot stand Tim Daggett and his female partner. "Wow." "Unbelievable." "If you had said to me [fill in time amount] that [fill in athlete's name] was going to [fill in accident or mistake]..."
I also resent their pumping the American men up to being medal contenders and then acting surprised when they don't win.
And I still think Alexis from the Russian men's team is still sexy Alexy.
As far as the extended coverage of Australia, it's hard to bitch about that, given American television limits exposure to almost all other cultures. And hey, I liked learning more about the Opera House design and construction.
218. mgleason - 9/19/2000 10:01:19 AM
It was just so strange to hear the disembodied voice-over joined with images that made no sense to me. I shut out everything but the words.
219. CalGal - 9/19/2000 10:02:37 AM
I thought of you when they were talking about the Opera House, GJ. But it went on and on and on forever.
The triathlon coverage was good, particularly the women's. The swimming coverage has been pretty good overall. Gymnastics has been awful.
220. glendajean - 9/19/2000 10:02:47 AM
My favorite Olympic commercials have been the car ads that play 40s songs with the Italian peasants lip-sinking in the background.
221. CalGal - 9/19/2000 10:04:56 AM
The Ebay commercial amuses me.
222. mgleason - 9/19/2000 10:06:08 AM
If nothing else, that opera house has made me determined to visit Sydney.
And you're very right aboiut Tim Daggett, GJ; he's our special punishment for bitching about John Tesh. But watching Alexis is worth a bit of pain and suffering.
223. CalGal - 9/19/2000 10:08:27 AM
The nice thing about the men's gymnastics was John Rothlisberger (sp). Incidentally, I was on a plane all last night. They didn't medal, did any of the men make the individuals or all-rounds?
224. CalGal - 9/19/2000 10:08:57 AM
Scratch that, I'll just go check it out.
225. Jamie R - 9/19/2000 10:10:39 AM
I caught some of the coverage last night and can't believe how much saccharine crap you have to sit through before you're allowed to see actual performance. My favorite bit was about the Russian swimmer whose family came to the U.S. "with all their belongings and memories packed in 5 small bags." Gackk!! And these schmaltzy video montages with all the soft focus and glowing gold halos- it's like they shipped in a battalion of unemployed music video directors. Show the damn performances!!
226. CalGal - 9/19/2000 10:15:27 AM
You forgot the equestrian Love Story.
227. mgleason - 9/19/2000 10:15:58 AM
Hell, my mom and I came here with one small duffel bag each that couldn't weigh over 15 lbs. I did manage to bring a walking doll that was as tall as I was and a string bag full of toys, however, because I did the silent tears bit. The guards didn't even search me.
228. Jamie R - 9/19/2000 10:20:15 AM
I missed mostof the equestrian coverage. I only caught a little bit of the beginnng where they stressed the danger and potential Human Tragedy. Oh, I forgot my absolute favorite part! I have no idea what the context was, but I heard an announcer say "he's not out there to show what a horse and rider CAN'T do." And I thought, is there an event where they show all the things a horse and rider can't do? Because that must really be something to see.
229. ScottLoar - 9/19/2000 10:25:57 AM
What happened to the mainland Chinese swimming teams that swirled up and over the last summer Olympics?
230. jexster - 9/19/2000 10:27:37 AM
231. CalGal - 9/19/2000 10:28:09 AM
I am sitting here giggling at the thought of a horse and rider carefully demonstrating all the things they can't do. It's the announcer's patter that is really giving me fits.
232. CalGal - 9/19/2000 10:30:13 AM
Scott,
By 94 they'd been busted for steroid use. By 96, most of the medal winners couldn't even make the finals in their events.
Ditto Michelle Smith and I betcha Inge deBruin is this year's poster child.
233. glendajean - 9/19/2000 10:30:37 AM
In Atlanta, I believe we had Tesh and Daggett together covering gymnastics. And Dagget is getting louder and shriller, I suppose to make up for the loss of Tesh. He and the woman announcer finish each other's sentences, usually predictable cliches.
Cal -- the American men finished 5th out of 6, in the finals. The Chinese won the gold, which evidently is good for their coach. Supposedly he had a mandate from his government to win or else. The Ukranians got the silver, which also supposedly embarrasses the hell out of the Russians, who never have gotten less than gold or silver.
234. glendajean - 9/19/2000 10:31:39 AM
That's in men's gymnatistics.
235. ScottLoar - 9/19/2000 10:31:53 AM
And all the while the atheletes and Chinese government denied any drug-use.
236. CalGal - 9/19/2000 10:40:24 AM
Scott,
I actually posted a mini-rant on that (as far as swimming and drugs) back at Message # 173. I think that any positive test on drugs at any point should strip you of your medals.
GJ,
Yes, the Ukraine team was a surprise. The Americans did pretty badly, from what I just read. Too bad.
237. glendajean - 9/19/2000 10:49:51 AM
Cal -- evidently, only the Chinese adjusted well to the hardness of the floor routine mat -- they had one shipped to China. Supposedly the Australian floor mat didn't have much bounce. At least that was all the other couuntries' excuse.
The kid who was the leader on the American team didn't do well at all. The old fellow, John R, did ok, and the young Hamm twins from Wisconsin both did very well and not so well.
But at least, these all young adults who have made the decision to compete (unlike the slave system that creates underfed and undergrown young females to twist and distort their bodies, causing injuries that will be killer problems when they're 40 or 50). Oops. NO more rant on that subject.
238. PsychProf - 9/19/2000 10:56:53 AM
GJ...yes.
239. jexster - 9/19/2000 12:43:01 PM
Does the Thorpedo do 'roids?
240. jexster - 9/19/2000 12:44:15 PM
I get injections myself by prescription and lemme tell ya it makes ya horny......
Off to look for some naked Ian Thorpe pics....ciao
241. labwabbit - 9/19/2000 2:20:27 PM
Ref: Athletic drug use.
As the line blurs between vitamins-protein-enriched foods and other "nutritional" enhancement concoctions, and "drugs", we must consider the fact that by whatever terminology is decided they are here to stay. Think about it. Genetically altered food, or any laboratory developed "high-performance" food/energy sources, will directly and ultimately impact human athletic capabilities and performace.
I say, as technology increasingly becomes the underlying factor toward athletic achievements, standards, and yes- development, why not capitulate to the seemingly invitable fact that the best developed technology will obtain the best chance to win. We can get all wrapped-around-the-axle about what is drugs and what isn't. We can debate to diffrentiate what is natural or not. Yet undeniably, the propensity toward discovering better,(or new),performance and development enhancements will continue. The personal drive and desire to obtain new world records, coupled with social/political/marketing pressures for success will ensure this process perpetuates.
The line between drugs and nutrition will continue to blur. What will happen to olympic ideals,(moral or otherwise),when genetically engineered tissues, blood, etc are enlisted; if not already.
Another question to consider. Would say, enhanced hemoglobin-chemically free, be considered drugs or just better physical development? Would rules diffrentiate between gaining treatment for athletic goals and saving a life? Would the one who received treatment as life saving be barred from competing athletically?
Why not let the best "technology" win!? Let's see what type of super-human or super-being can be evolved.
242. labwabbit - 9/19/2000 2:33:50 PM
(con)
I ask that last question as if it can be stopped.
243. Don S. - 9/19/2000 2:39:19 PM
mgleason,
Did you catch the Red Lobster commercial?
I should have been a pair of ragged claws, scuttling across the floors of silent seas...
Mmmm, tasty!
244. labwabbit - 9/19/2000 2:41:55 PM
DonS
Wrong thread?
245. Don S. - 9/19/2000 3:46:13 PM
What are you, the thread police? Once again, I must humiliate you by turning your attention to Message # 215, mgleason's post about a TV commercial that ran during the opening ceremonies.
Weirdo.
Back on topic ...
Full-body swimwear — bad
Chinese gymnasts — good
246. labwabbit - 9/19/2000 3:55:07 PM
DonS
No thread/msg reference, discussing lobster commercials in the middle of a athletes using drugs, and you refer to me as weird?
No humiliation suffered once one considers the source of the attempt.
However, perhaps you might become aware enough to suffer some level of humility. But rest assured its of no consequence to me.
247. Don S. - 9/19/2000 3:58:35 PM
I will not use emoticons ... I will not use emoticons ... I will not use emoticons ...
248. PsychProf - 9/19/2000 4:06:57 PM
Lab...EPO(blood doping for increased muscle oxygen), steroids for muscle growth, beta-blockers for steady hands...these are examples of drugs that will increase performance. I consider them different from substances that are easily available...e.g. vitamin supplements. We will have to make decisions(it always comes to this in life) as to where the performance of the individual leaves off and the effect of the drug takes over... aside from cynicism, it just isn't any fun knowing that we are not watching the result of hard work and innate athletic ability. At least for these tired eyes...
249. labwabbit - 9/19/2000 4:07:14 PM
...the defense rests.
250. PsychProf - 9/19/2000 4:11:48 PM
Don...I think Lab was just indicating some distress that his post was not responded to. Or maybe he thought that you thread-misposted...in any case, the topic of drug enhancement is an interesting one, and his post deserves to be considered.
251. KuligintheHooligan - 9/19/2000 4:15:21 PM
Quick bits.
South Africa is quite excited about the win by Bafana Bafana over Brazil in soccer. This gives RSA real hope for medalling in this event.
On the downside, for Namibia, truly the best chance for Namibia to get a medal, Frankie Fredericks in the 100m sprint (the silver medalist the previous two Olympics), has pulled out do to a tendon problem in his leg. This is a real disappointment and will probably negatively affect all the Namibian athletes.
Yesterday I watched with awe the handball event. I had never seen that event before. It was a sport I would have personally been made for. I'm disappointed I never knew of it growing up, but then again, I doubt it was of any real consequence in the States. I tried to figure out the rules but couldn't quite figure out if the guys actually have to dribble the ball or if they can run around with it all day. One guy on a fast break did dribble the ball, but then at other moments the guys didn't dribble it at all.
If anybody has information on this sport or could briefly answer some questions about it, I'd be most happy.
252. CalGal - 9/19/2000 4:18:20 PM
Labwabbit,
I don't know what the answer is. I do think that when drugs take a second-tier athlete and turn him into a first tier athlete merely by making him stronger than is generally possible for him to achieve naturally, then we're outside the boundaries.
253. glendajean - 9/19/2000 4:21:02 PM
Maybe the IOC can change the Olympic Hymn to that great reggae song, I'm a dope, I'm a dope, I'm a dope.
254. PelleNilsson - 9/19/2000 4:23:33 PM
Kuligin
I know about handball.
A player can indeed dribble the ball all day but once he picks it up with both hands he has to pass or shoot. When he holds the ball he is not allowed more than three steps before doing the same.
255. KuligintheHooligan - 9/19/2000 4:27:39 PM
pelle, from the looks of it, I thought maybe two steps and then pass or shoot, but I thought I saw some guys just running with it period. Then I was wondering about how to defend the man with the ball. Can you grab him? There seemed to be some fouls called, but what I saw was just quick excerpts from the matches, with notoriously bad commentary (watching the "Dream Team" play basketball and hearing the pathetic commentary, no doubt by a guy that hasn't seen a day of basketball in his life, is too pukey for words).
I likened this handball to water polo without the water. An over-simplification of course. This handball sport would have been perfect for me, since it seems to combine all the best qualities I had in athletics. Alas, I am past my prime now!
Thanks pelle.
256. KuligintheHooligan - 9/19/2000 4:29:14 PM
Oh, pelle, the guys also seemed to ALWAYS jump before throwing the ball to a teammate. I don't recall ever seeing a guy stand there and throw it to a teammate, but again, I only saw excerpts.
257. PsychProf - 9/19/2000 4:35:44 PM
258. PelleNilsson - 9/19/2000 4:38:26 PM
Kuligin
When a player has control of the ball you are not allowed to slap it out of his hands (I think this is allowed in basketball).
You cannot grab or wrestle with other players.
In spite of the above, handball is a tough sport, tougher than basketball in my opinion.
259. PelleNilsson - 9/19/2000 4:40:20 PM
Kuligin
Sad news about Frankie Fredricks. A fine sportsman, very popular here.
260. PelleNilsson - 9/19/2000 4:43:06 PM
The jumping is a feint trying to lure the defending team in position for a distance shot, thus opening up on the flanks.
261. PsychProf - 9/19/2000 4:46:29 PM
Pelle...very interesting...could you now describe the act of love making...we await.
262. PsychProf - 9/19/2000 5:02:12 PM
263. stostosto - 9/19/2000 5:17:00 PM
Psych Prof
I know about love making.
A player can indeed dribble the ball all day but once he picks it up with both hands he has to pass or shoot. When he holds the ball he is not allowed more than three steps before doing the same.
264. stostosto - 9/19/2000 5:29:40 PM
Kuligin
Handball is the #2 team sport in this country after football (soccer). I played it a lot when I was young. As in basket (or volley) being tall and able to jump high is an advantage, but it's not as exclusively made for seven feeters as those sports. A fast guy with good tactical skills can be very effective.
I believe handball is big mostly in the Baltic countries (Scandinavia, Germany, Poland, Russia) and some Central European ones, notably Romania, but also Czech/Slovakia. Spain has also been fairly good for some time now, and in recent years France seem to have made huge progress.
Outside Europe, a country like Egypt has put a fine team together almost tying the normally superior Russians the other day.
And in Asia, Korea has long been one of the world top nations, at least among women. They made it to the final in Atlanta 96 where they were unfortunate enough to play --Denmark...
The sport has also been taken up in America of late. Interesting to see when teams like Cuba and the USA play how much their style is influenced by basket ball.
265. labwabbit - 9/19/2000 6:37:32 PM
PP
We will have to make decisions(it always comes to this in life) as to where the performance of the individual leaves off and the effect of the drug takes over...
I agree to that point. However, where that line of definition exists is constantly being re-invented if you will. Given an athlete that works hard, builds his/her endurance by continually pushing/testing the envelope of h/h abilities, eating the right foods {naturally available}, and possessing the right combination of hereditary/genetic strengths, the line is easier to draw.
Drugs were drugs, and food was food. It wasn't too difficult to debate obvious differences. Now there are enzyme enhancements and outright inventions, as well as re-engineered proteins and such that it becomes increasingly difficult to determine what is artificially induced performance and what is not. What's to say that a given athlete who is pure, (in a "purists" sense; eats right/works hard), has a particular part(s) of anatomy enhanced by laboratory engineering. For example, replacing a gland with an improved one that generates an enzyme which increases carbohydrate efficiencies. Might that be considered unnatural? Illegal? Even if there weren't any drugs/or performance-enhancing chemistry involved?
Nevertheless, for these tired eyes as well I believe it is more fun to know that it isn't the athlete with the most resources that necessarily wins.
266. labwabbit - 9/19/2000 6:37:44 PM
Cal
...when drugs take a second-tier athlete and turn him into a first tier athlete merely by making him stronger than is generally possible for him to achieve naturally, then we're outside the boundaries.
That is, for the most part, the point I am making. It just appears that the line of what is natural and what is not, has become very fuzzy to me. I fear that this year's crop of athletes will only be as good as the definition allowed of the science that is applied.
Hell, in extreme-case scenario, a human being can be created in a petri-dish, and genetically engineered to (like an ant), lift 6-times h/h own weight....
What will that do to the sense of olympic spirit?
267. ranheim - 9/19/2000 6:49:56 PM
I'll show my age : 65.
There was one poorly maintained handball court at the college I went to. Handball singles : you alternately struck a very hard ball (with hands only) that had a lot of bounce to it against the 4 walls + the ceiling. You had to hit the ball in the air or on first bounce. Should the ball bounce twice, it was a point or "side out" as in a volleyball game. When striking the ball, it had to hit a wall first; as best as I recall one could not bounce the ball off either the floor or the ceiling. The art of the game came in planning angles for ricochets off the ceiling; several walls; etc. Should the ball strike another portion of your body prior to hitting your hand, you lost the point also.
Are talking about the same sport?
For me, a basketball player who thought he was in shape, it wore me down to a 'frazzel'. It took great skill to play the right angles to get your opponent out of position. It was damned hard work.
As one game frequently took 30 minutes (or so), very few people could utilize the handball court in one day. As I recall, the walls, floor, and ceiling were all made of some hardwood; thus expensive to build to begin with. And maintainance was difficult. That was the explanation to me as to why there were few handball courts. Plus the fact that is was such hard work that very few would participate.
268. stostosto - 9/20/2000 3:18:37 AM
No, ranheim, that's not the sport we are talking about. I believe the game we discussed is sometimes referred to as "team handball" to prevent the confusion with the game you are talking about (which sounds like squash without a racket).
---
Isn't it just typical, by the way. Football isn't football, it's "soccer". Handball isn't handball, it's "team handball". Even athletics isn't that either, it's bleeding "track and field".
Darn American team oddballs...
269. alistairconnor - 9/20/2000 4:58:32 AM
Ranheim :
The game you're talking about is known as "pelote basque" in France, I can't think of the name in English. There are various versions, some played with bare hands, others with a sort of scoop thing for catching and re-throwing the ball. Apart from France and Spain, it's huge in Argentina.
270. PsychProf - 9/20/2000 7:21:20 AM
I note where the Chinese, bolstered by the success of their "Eliminate the Parents" and "Just Say Yes to Drugs" programs, will now shoot rather than cut athletes that fail to make their future Olympic teams, thereby controlling cost, reducing overpopulation, and silencing whiners and other general malcontents. More power to the people.
271. PsychProf - 9/20/2000 7:26:32 AM
CASTRO SEZ IT'S A CAPITALIST PLOT
click on photo 
272. PsychProf - 9/20/2000 9:06:15 AM
SHOULDS STAYED AT THE LOCAL REDROOF INN
click on photo 
273. rubberducky - 9/20/2000 9:12:29 AM
The Sob Sister Olympics
The Olympics I'm watching is so drenched in sob stories I can barely stand it. Every night, for instance, there is an NBC guy—Jimmy Roberts, I think his name is—who sits next to Bob Costas and gives us a backstory from the Olympic Games.
which tells me that even if i didn't detest organized sports, i wouldn't watch this crap.
274. PsychProf - 9/20/2000 9:17:39 AM
Ducky...some of Robert's reports are interesting and informative... the one last night concerning the struggling swimmer was very good. Different strokes...
275. KuligintheHooligan - 9/20/2000 10:09:32 AM
sto, Thanks. I can well imagine being influenced by basketball when attempting to play handball. I think what is strange is that I had NEVER seen this sport until just the other day. I like it. I would have loved to have played it myself.
BTW, I don't recall what country you are from.
pelle, you guys are fans of Frankie? Other than that he is a great character, why up there would you be interested in him?
Thanks also for the handball information. I find it "odd" that you can't knock the ball out of the guy's hand. It seems to make defending a little more boring than in basketball. Not a lot of aggressive defense allowed it would seem. I think that adds a large dimension to basketball.
Here's another question about the sport of handball. I gathered from watching that you could not stand in the paint and try for a goal. But many times a guy would dive into the paint and before hitting the ground, shoot for a score. However, if the goalie blocked the ball and it rebounded back to the guy you took the shot - and he is still lying in the paint - can he take the ball and shoot again from there? Or must he pass the ball back out of the paint?
276. KuligintheHooligan - 9/20/2000 10:12:57 AM
PP, I have been meaning to thank you for the boxing pic. I am looking forward to seeing how many medals the Americans can take from the Cubans!
277. glendajean - 9/20/2000 11:47:43 AM
Prof -- I liked the struggling swimmer story, too.
I skipped most of last night. I just cannot watch female gymnastics anymore.
Kuligan --too bad you're not in USA right now. NBC is showing boxing everyday on one of their cable channels, CNBC, I think.
278. theDiva - 9/20/2000 11:50:58 AM
Glendajean
re: female gymnastics, neither can I. All I can think of is those little girls starving themselves to death.
279. Don S. - 9/20/2000 11:53:43 AM
"...even if i didn't detest organized sports, i wouldn't watch this crap."
Hypocrite! You're just jealous 'cause bowling isn't an Olympic sport.
sorry, no emoticons here, either. ... you're just going to have to fend for yourselves...
280. labwabbit - 9/20/2000 11:58:26 AM
DonS
Your batteries die out?
281. Don S. - 9/20/2000 12:05:06 PM
labw, I'm beginning to think you don't enjoy my cute little rejoinders.
on topic:
THE NETHERLANDS?!?
sigh.
282. labwabbit - 9/20/2000 12:18:31 PM
DonS
Nah. I really like your cute, little....."rejoinders"? (Could ya give me a hint on what part of the body that is located?)
It's only the dis-joinders I have trouble sizing up.
283. Don S. - 9/20/2000 12:32:02 PM
Some of my rejoinders have been remaindered.
284. labwabbit - 9/20/2000 12:39:21 PM
DS
I'm certain...
285. Don S. - 9/20/2000 12:41:02 PM
I'm still sensing a little hostility.
Of course it could just be Olympics Fever!
286. CalGal - 9/20/2000 12:43:38 PM
What struggling swimmer story was last night? Are you talking about the 400IM guy?
The ratings for the Olympics are lower than they've been since 1968. NBC will have to give back some cash to advertisers, apparently.
You know, if American broadcasters aren't willing to pay lots of money for televised rights unless they can run events in something reasonably close to live time, I wonder if that will be more of an impact to the selection committee than bribes?
287. labwabbit - 9/20/2000 12:46:11 PM
DS
Never hostile...all in fun. Isn't that why you're here?
Although I don't mind rendering a little spanking on those whose rejoinders are remaindered.
288. CalGal - 9/20/2000 12:56:06 PM
Lab,
It just appears that the line of what is natural and what is not, has become very fuzzy to me.
I disagree. If everyone was completely clean, there would be first tier and second tier athletes--whether it was talent or perseverance or both that got them there. If everyone uses performance enhancing drugs and that tier isn't upset, then I think you can make the case for your notion of fuzziness between natural and unnatural, and drugs and chemicals are just part of the deal.
But I'm talking about someone who is second tier, unable even to crack the first tier--much less win at that level. For that person to use drugs that boost him to winning at this world class suggests that something is out of joint--particularly if they can't maintain the performance without the drugs.
289. rubberducky - 9/20/2000 12:58:01 PM
Re: Message # 279, Don S.
well, more than anything it's due to no more nude college wrestling ... you know, like those fab greeks did it
290. stostosto - 9/20/2000 12:59:08 PM
Kuligin #275
I don't recall what country you are from.
I am a born and raised citizen of Denmark.
I find it "odd" that you can't knock the ball out of the guy's hand.
Pelle is not entirely correct in saying you can't do that. But you mustn't touch your opponent's fingers, or hands, or arms, or anything, and you mustn't endanger him such as if you block a shot by grabbing the ball countering the swing direction of his arm from behind. Given that the ball is small, it's difficult to steal it by knocking it out of opponent's hands.
It seems to make defending a little more boring than in basketball. Not a lot of aggressive defense allowed it would seem. I think that adds a large dimension to basketball.
Not at all. Like Pelle said, handball is probably more aggressive than basket ball. While the rules for foul are (AFAIK) exactly the same as in basket, the punishment is much lighter. Only real fouly fouls get punished by 2 minutes expulsion (which happens quite a lot). This makes fouls an integrate part of defense play. You basically have to grab your direct opponent by his shooting arm and his opposite hip any time he attempts a shot. And there is intense pushing and holding and tough infight at the six meter line (what you call "the paint").
if the goalie blocked the ball and it rebounded back to the guy you took the shot - and he is still lying in the paint - can he take the ball and shoot again from there? Or must he pass the ball back out of the paint?
No, he can't touch the ball when he is in the six meter area. No player is allowed that other than the goal keepeer.
291. labwabbit - 9/20/2000 1:34:18 PM
Cal
Why are certain enhancements acceptable in sport while others are not? Why does a Bulgarian get disqualified for strength enhancing steroidal/enzyme derivatives, while lifter 'B' gets by with "all natural-protein-carbo-enzyme-super-performace-dietary-formula-born in a laboratory-type supplement ... and still be considered "1st-tier"?
What about the Big-Mac-McGuire who now owns the crown as home-run king? He may have taken FDA approved steroidal compounds, but steroids are steroids right? I mean, he wasn't born with them, and they definitely didn't occur naturally as a result of in-born skills and hard work. Wouldn't the definition of clean be eating spinach, raw-eggs, and beer like the rest of us 2nd tier champions?
Are we sending a 'fuzzy' message here?
292. CalGal - 9/20/2000 1:43:25 PM
Lab,
But you are comparing method, as opposed to tier.
293. labwabbit - 9/20/2000 2:09:41 PM
Cal
Message # 292
I'm afraid you lost me on that one kiddo.
May I rule out assumption that by method you don't mean anal-suppository vs oral ingestion.
I think you might mean how they achieved 1st-tier as opposed to what they do once they get there?
To support my original arguement of capitulating to "may the best technology win because the definition of clean will constantly be re-defined position", I have to wonder if the definition for clean will eventually include re-arranged genetic code. I have to wonder whose definition of acceptable enhancements will produce the next world record standards. I also have to wonder where it will stop, believing at this time that it will not.
Could it get to a point where taking tissue from someone, re-arranging a few code structures during the athlete's development, re-introducing this material back to the original donor be considered clean as there are no "drugs" involved? How about an athlete who is "developed" in a petri-dish?
Should we...can we... avoid letting the best technology win? I take stand on the belief we can't...and eventually we won't.
294. CalGal - 9/20/2000 2:30:33 PM
I think you might mean how they achieved 1st-tier as opposed to what they do once they get there?
No, I'm saying that the method they use to enhance performance is different from what class of performer they are to begin with. You were focusing on the first, I was focusing on the second.
In McGuire's case--I don't think there's any question that he's a top tier performer. The issue is, should he be able to use a drug that will make him tougher and less vulnerable to injury? Whether he uses an approved or non-approved method, it's not the drugs that are helping him hit the ball. They're just keeping him healthy enough to play.
In the case of the weightlifters--if both of them are tier 1 athletes, then I'm not particularly interested in whether or not one is using an approved method and one not. If it just gives them an extra lift, the issue is whether or not that extra lift is legit. Fair question, not particularly my concern.
But if one of them was a lesser athlete who can only perform on a par with the other because he is on a drug, that is an issue that interests me. I can think of nothing "natural" that will accomplish that, btw.
295. labwabbit - 9/20/2000 3:00:32 PM
In McGuire's case--I don't think there's any question that he's a top tier performer.
[Now he is]...he exceeded marks set by other top-tier performers who were deprived of the substance to keep them healthy, sharp, and "less vulnerable to injury".
If he were to surpass Aaron's career total, would that be as clean and fair, if Ol'Hank stayed healthy and maintained skills by hard-work and practice? Or does the technology, presently defined as acceptable, allow this person to set a new standard of 1st-tier athlete that had not been available to his predecessors?
What technological(scientific?)breakthroughs will be discovered and accepted, that will allow another 1st-tier(er) to smack McGuire's record out of the park...and so on? Who will be the one to define it as legit?
296. PsychProf - 9/20/2000 4:38:31 PM
I USETA DATE A FEMALE HAMMER THROWER
297. KuligintheHooligan - 9/20/2000 4:48:14 PM
sto, thanks for the answers. Again, handball looks like an exciting sport and I wish I had had the opportunity to play it in my younger years.
glendjean, we only see bits of the Olympics here in Namibia, given that we only have one channel. Yes, you read that correctly. Only one. I don't think they have shown a lick of boxing, but I could be wrong.
298. Jonesatlaw - 9/20/2000 6:14:16 PM
I saw some boxing the other day, and it was refreshing indeed. A couple of lightweights who actually BOXED! I am so sick of the WWF type stuff in the pros that I have quit watching boxing save for old Ali fights on the Classic channel. The emphasis on skill and technique in Olympic boxing makes it exciting, althought the decrease in knockouts might put off the more bloodsport fans among us.
299. ranheim - 9/20/2000 6:35:04 PM
As a physician, the drugs used by Lyle Alzado and many others like him, eventually killed him. For those of you not from the USA, Alzado was a professional football player who built up his body, hugely, by taking a "cocktail" of drugs (mostly anabolic steroids); similar to the cocktail taken by Ben Johnson - the Canadian sprinter who had his gold medal/s taken away. These drugs should be made illegal for all people; not just athletes. Most are not available legally in the USA.
I can't remember the name of the product taken by McGwire - its nickname is "andro". It is over-the-counter in the USA. But, despite that, I believe that andro has been made an illegal substance in track and field and football. Go figure!
In the dimmest corner of my memory banks, wasn't there a controversy 25 years ago - or so - about an "iron curtain" woman who put the shot or threw the discus? I believe that she turned out to have an abnormal chromosome pattern : possible XXY? For a time, all women had to subject themselves to a scraping of the mucosa of the mouth (similar to a PAP smear) except they were looking for genes and chromosomes - not cancer cells. Is that test still being done? Or can they now do this on blood samples? (It has been an extremely long time in my office since I have had a genetic malformation problem for which I had to conduct the work-up. Today's patients come out of the hospital with that genetic information - under normal circumstances.)
300. ranheim - 9/20/2000 6:36:16 PM
As a physician, the drugs used by Lyle Alzado and many others like him, eventually killed him. For those of you not from the USA, Alzado was a professional football player who built up his body, hugely, by taking a "cocktail" of drugs (mostly anabolic steroids); similar to the cocktail taken by Ben Johnson - the Canadian sprinter who had his gold medal/s taken away. These drugs should be made illegal for all people; not just athletes. Most are not available legally in the USA.
I can't remember the name of the product taken by McGwire - its nickname is "andro". It is over-the-counter in the USA. But, despite that, I believe that andro has been made an illegal substance in track and field and football. Go figure!
In the dimmest corner of my memory banks, wasn't there a controversy 25 years ago - or so - about an "iron curtain" woman who put the shot or threw the discus? I believe that she turned out to have an abnormal chromosome pattern : possible XXY? For a time, all women had to subject themselves to a scraping of the mucosa of the mouth (similar to a PAP smear) except they were looking for genes and chromosomes - not cancer cells. Is that test still being done? Or can they now do this on blood samples? (It has been an extremely long time in my office since I have had a genetic malformation problem for which I had to conduct the work-up. Today's patients come out of the hospital with that genetic information - under normal circumstances.)
301. ranheim - 9/20/2000 6:38:37 PM
Sorry for the double post. I don't know which "wrong button" I hit.
302. SnowOwl - 9/21/2000 12:47:52 AM
I'm doing my best to avoid the Olympics but one news item caught my eye today. One of the NZ equestrians withdrew from the 3 day event because his horse refused a fence and that meant he had no chance of winning. This guy was our flagbearer during the opening ceremony.
So much for any idea about the joy of competing and the honour of representing one's country.
303. CalGal - 9/21/2000 1:29:59 AM
Wow, that is tacky.
Just saw the 200 fly upset. That was a kick--certainly the upset of the swimming events, and one of the biggest in swimming history. Suzy O'Neill hasn't been beaten in six years.
The 100 free is up next and I actually haven't seen or heard anything about it, so it will actually be a surprise. I don't think there's ever been such a high-powered final before.
304. jonesatlaw - 9/21/2000 2:54:05 AM
While I realize its futile to ask for TV coverage of some sports- Trap or other shooting events would be boring TV I would suppose, why isn't there any coverage of Judo? It would seem to be fast and exciting and there is certainly some interest in the sport in the US.
305. PsychProf - 9/21/2000 7:39:48 AM
NIGHTMARE TEAM?
click on photo 
306. PsychProf - 9/21/2000 7:42:53 AM
FOR JONESATLAW 
307. PsychProf - 9/21/2000 7:46:30 AM
PLAY MISTY FOR ME
click on photo 
308. rubberducky - 9/21/2000 8:58:36 AM
SYDNEY, Australia (Reuters) -France's reclusive Olympic track star Marie-Jose Perec fled the Sydney Games in tears on Thursday saying a man had threatened her in her hotel.
309. PelleNilsson - 9/21/2000 12:21:13 PM
Kuligin
Frankie Fredricks has competed here several times. He comes across as mucho simpatico. Also, there is a great deal of sympathy for Namibia here and in the Nordic countries in general. I have never been to Namibia but our company was running Namibia Telecom for a couple of years after indepandence.
310. CalGal - 9/21/2000 12:26:21 PM
Ducky,
That Perec thing is weeeeeeiiiird.
311. PelleNilsson - 9/21/2000 12:58:41 PM
Forgot to mention that Sweden took a second gold today, again in some shooting event. We're already better off than in Atlanta. We had some hopes for a bronze in the men's 100 m free-style swimming but the fellow (Frölander) ended up 6th.
312. PsychProf - 9/21/2000 1:32:21 PM
Jonas Edman of Sweden rases his arms after he won the men's 50m rifle
competition in the Sydney 2000 Olympic Games, September 21, 2000.
Dane Torben Grimmel finished second and Sergei Martynov of Belarus
third. REUTERS/Ali Jarekji 
313. ranheim - 9/21/2000 1:40:47 PM
Pelle
How are guns controlled in Sweden - I am assuming that there is some control?
Several months ago I read an article in which a British, competitive shooter was quoted as saying that with the recent change in British gun laws, he could not get his hands on enough ammunition to be competitive in an international event. (I have no idea if the Brit was simply complaining - or if he was giving an accurate description of current gun laws in Britain).
314. ranheim - 9/21/2000 1:42:43 PM
I meant to say that the Brit was complaining that he could not obtain enough ammunition for practice - so that he would be competitive.
315. Toenails - 9/21/2000 2:09:56 PM
Is anyone else concerned about how excruciatingly BORING Olympic
softball games are? I've witnessed three games in a row now where the teams had to play repeated extra innings in order for someone, eventually, to score a run and thus permit the foolishness to finally end.
Isn't it entirely obvious that this is a sport out of balance? When is someone going to do something to re-introduce a bit of offense into the game? Today's pitcher (not necessarily the WINNING pitcher, mind you) has struck out 22 people so far. Exciting? Nope.
Move the pitcher's mound back another ten feet so that there is time for a human being to react to the pitch and (perhaps, occasionally) make contact with it. Give the fielders something to do. Let's have a few 9-7 games, in regulation innings.
Jeez!
316. ranheim - 9/21/2000 3:02:02 PM
Toenails
Are you old enough to remember a 1 - 0 shutout pitched by Sandy Kofax in a game that last 1 hour 49 minutes?
For me, games like that did not lack excitement.
317. PelleNilsson - 9/21/2000 4:27:34 PM
PP
Thanks for the pic. Since the last update there is also a silver medal in the women's 100 m free-style.
ranheim
Good to see you back in the Mote. I'll be brief about gun control because this is not really the thread for it. In Sweden. there are several regimes under which you can be a legitimate gun owner, like being a policeman or a member of the Home Guard, The most common is being a hunter with a hunter's license. Typically you get such a licence by attending classes at weekends for three to four months, although accelerated courses are also available.
318. ranheim - 9/21/2000 4:52:31 PM
Thanks Pelle - I was specifically after any rules and regulaions your shooting team had to hop through to get the guns and ammunition that were necessary for your country's medal winner. One doesn't become good enough to win an Olympic medal without a lot of practice! Hence a lot of ammunition. I phrased my question very poorly. Sorry.
319. PelleNilsson - 9/21/2000 4:59:53 PM
ranheim
I don't think the shooting team has any regulatory difficulties whatsoever. Shooting, not being a big sport, they do have problems finding the money to buy all that ammunition.
320. AytchMan - 9/21/2000 6:52:19 PM
Poor ratings. Poor NBC. Poor American viewers:
NBC is going to add another minute of advertising per hour to make up for the disappointing ratings. The sponsors are grumbling so the number of ads per hour will increase from 18 30-second spots per hour to 20.
And you thought you were already missing a lot.
321. CalGal - 9/21/2000 7:01:22 PM
Yeah, but Dick swears we won't notice. Just like he said we'd watch what he told us to watch.
Incidentally, I predicted earlier that US broadcasters might start pressuring the Olympic Committee to only select host countries in amenable time zones. It has already happened.
But more fools they if they think that the time lag is the real problem.
322. AytchMan - 9/21/2000 7:10:05 PM
Time lag may not be "the" problem but I think it's a big one. The coverage loses a lot of immediacy when we can find out what's going on elsewhere.
A couple of decades ago, I can remember staying up late and getting up early to watch live coverage of big events in Europe or Japan or wherever.
What do you think is the biggest problem? The shift to soft-focus stuff to match the new demographics?
323. labwabbit - 9/21/2000 7:27:25 PM
The real commercial part of the programming are the events themselves.
Just listen to them plug bull****. However, I truly enjoy all those entertaining little skits in between the numbing salivatations.
324. AytchMan - 9/21/2000 7:34:24 PM
entertaining little skits
Do you mean the up-close-and-personal features or something else?
325. CalGal - 9/21/2000 7:35:30 PM
Oh, they could fix the timelag by just showing events in the morning. That's what they did for Seoul. I remember getting up at 4 or 5 and watching Olympics for several hours before going off to work. They were a good Olympics--I think Gumbel was the host. And I believe the ratings were solid, if not exciting.
So yeah, I do think their decision to stuff everything to primetime is a factor--but that's their decision, not the time lag.
The real problem is the quality, which is abysmal. The bathos of the soft-focus shit was bad enough in previous years. But now they have turned the Olympics into a soap-opera with an occasional sporting event.
Just four years ago, you could rest assured that if you missed watching Carl Lewis win the long jump when it happened, you'd be able to see a rerun of his final jump at least 20 times over the next three days. Now, they don't rerun the sporting events--they rerun the softfocus shit. If you missed an event, it's over. You won't see it again.
Of course, if they actually showed the entire event the first time you can count yourself lucky. The gymnastics coverage has been particularly egregious in showing a few clips here and there, in and among sexy Alexei's marriage and new baby that he hasn't seen. But we didn't even see the woman who won the first gold in trap shooting. Nothing on the event at all.
Finally, the announcing is horrific in primetime--I except only Rowdy Gaines in swimming. I remember when I was embarrassed by Jim McKay's euphoria over the most recent little skater or gymnast. He seems like a fond memory now, when all announcers seem to have one little label by each athlete and they must refer to it every single time. ("the perfect race", "the kidnapped Chinese girl", "the Suzy Stroke".)
What did we do wrong in our lives, to deserve this sort of coverage? What sin did we commit for this punishment?
326. AytchMan - 9/21/2000 7:44:24 PM
cg--
What did we do wrong in our lives, to deserve this sort of coverage? What sin did we commit for this punishment?
Speaking for just you and me, I don't know but we must agree never to do it again. The problem is that, declining ratings notwithstanding, "America" has spoken and I think we're saddled with it for the foreseeable future. The fact that UpClose stuff is cheaper to produce and can be put together ahead of time is an added bonus (for the network, not us).
327. CalGal - 9/21/2000 7:49:38 PM
But my lord, they spent a fortune sending a whole troupe of incompetents over there, and they are put up in a yacht. Surely expense isn't a factor.
I think we can find some sort of balance between sports and bathos, can't we?
If not, I want my live feed straight from the Olympic Camera. To hell with the broadcasters.
328. AytchMan - 9/21/2000 7:55:30 PM
Actually, I think expense has gotten to be a huge factor. And it probably always has been. It's just that in the past, the margins were higher and they didn't need to watch the bottom line quite as closely.
If I remember correctly, NBC was projecting a $700 million cost and $800 million revenue. But with the low ratings, I think they're in danger of breaking even. That's why they're adding more commercials.
329. AytchMan - 9/21/2000 8:01:02 PM
cg--
Separate subthread -- did you happen to see the US womens' water polo match against the Canadians a couple of days ago. The one with the big finish?
330. CalGal - 9/21/2000 8:21:36 PM
No, but I read about it. Or is there a different one that ended with the swimsuits being torn? I was very annoyed to learn that I'd missed waterpolo. It's a brutal sport that I used to play when I swam, and I love it.
331. CalGal - 9/21/2000 10:05:45 PM
Aytch--and anyone else:
Why NBC Won't Run the Olympics Live:
So why do networks resort to tape delay when the Games are held in a time zone that's not prime-time friendly? They've already paid for the rights. All their people are here. NBC could run the Games 24 hours a day if Ebersol liked. Why doesn't it? Two words: the soaps.
A top executive at CBS, which held the rights to the Nagano Olympics, explained it to me. He hated showing the Games on tape, and his ratings were miserable, too. But the networks are terrified that if they show the Olympics live during non-prime-time hours, viewers who aren't interested in sports would be driven into the arms of the competition. NBC's soap-opera lovers would begin to go into withdrawal, switch to rival CBS in search of a temporary fix, and get hooked on a different cast of tortured lives bent toward adultery. Today show junkies would discover that Diane Sawyer gets up early, too. Local affiliates would scream that their dopey Eyewitness News teams were being scooped in the noon hour by the non-Olympic competition.
332. CalGal - 9/21/2000 10:06:48 PM
And on water polo, Aytch:
Tuesday night I got back to my hotel from gymnastics at 2 a.m. and, still slightly wired, flicked on the tube. The fourth quarter of a women's water polo match was in progress between Australia and the U.S. WOMEN'S WATER POLO! This should put me to sleep, I mused. The U.S. and Australia began trading goals. Penalties were called. Power plays ensued. Players were in foul trouble. The ref paced the sidelines. It was all vaguely familiar, but excitingly different, and I sat riveted as Australia held on for a one-goal win.
It was in the qualifying round, so no medal was directly at stake. But it was pure sport, and I couldn't leave my seat. Actually, I was in bed. But I couldn't leave my bed! I required no commentator intoning through misty eyes about the water polo star who had the sick sister in the stands, the father who'd sacrificed, the childhood disease which no one thought she'd survive. We just watched the action, and whether NBC believes it or not, that's what about 98 percent of his viewers want, too. Life is tough. We all know that. We tune into the Olympics for something grander than a maudlin story line.
Now kindly wipe the Vaseline off that lens and show us the goddamn games, live, 24-hours a day if possible. Package the three hours of prime time if you must, replay to your heart's content, but give us the wondrous spectacle that is the one and only human event that can capture the eyes of the world when it isn't at war.
333. CalGal - 9/21/2000 11:32:46 PM
Sigh. I am not making this up:
The US women's softball team has lost three games in a row. A few clips were shown.
Then Bob Costas turns to that asshole and says, "Tough news about the women's softball team, but a lot of interesting stories there."
"Yes, Bob...."
and they proceed to spend ten minutes on the batgirl's friend, who died of cancer.
334. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/22/2000 2:51:13 AM
Reading this stuff makes me really glad that I live in a country showing 6 hours of live Olympics coverage every day, with no puff pieces on the competitors. Sure, I'd like to see a little less boxing and such, and some more team sports, but this is a lot better than the crap you Americans have to put up with.
And the badminton has been extremely exciting.
In case you missed it (it was, fortunately, shown on American TV, I hear), Indonesia got its first gold medal of the games in an exciting badminton match:
click on photo for a report -- in English 
335. CalGal - 9/22/2000 3:07:37 AM
Hey, congrats! Although this seems to be a sport they often win in?
And I note the history of (gasp) drug use even in badminton? I mean, what's that about? They just need some extra strength to smack that birdie?
336. SnowOwl - 9/22/2000 4:20:29 AM
Wow! Big upset in the 100 metres men's butterfly final. Congrats Sweden!
337. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/22/2000 6:30:21 AM
Cal:
Indonesia has been among the top badminton playing nations of the world since the 1950s. It is the most popular sport in the country, and the entire nation stops and watches when the big tournaments are played (the All-England and the Thomas Cup). The top badminton playing nations of the world are an interesting collection: Indonesia, China, Malaysia, Denmark, India, Korea, and sometimes England. No other nations that I can think of have top-calibre badminton players.
Most of Indonesia's medals in the Olympics, over the years, have come from badminton, since the sport was introduced as a medal sport in 1992. Indonesia has also won medals in women's archery and women's weight-lifting.
As for drug use, it shouldn't be surprising. Badminton is the fastest and most physically demanding of all sports. A top player is almost always over the hill by age 25, and I'm sure players seek methods to extend those careers, since the top players make big bucks in prize money and sponsorships.
338. PsychProf - 9/22/2000 7:30:35 AM
TIME FOR T & F
click on photo 
339. PsychProf - 9/22/2000 7:36:08 AM
FOR SNOD...
Indonesia's Candra Wijaya, left, and Tony Gunawan wave from the gold
medal platform after their men's badminton doubles final victory
Thursday, Sept. 21, 2000 in Sydney. The pair beat a team from Korea.
(AP Photo/Elaine Thompson)
click on photo 
340. KuligintheHooligan - 9/22/2000 7:50:03 AM
pelle, yes, the Scandanavian countries give quite a bit of aide to Namibia. In fact, Namibia has much to thank those countries, If your company ever has you travel to Namibia, be sure to look me up!
341. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/22/2000 8:14:23 AM
PP:
Thanks for that. It was great to hear "Indonesia Raya" playing in Sydney... the most inspiring anthem in the world, for my money.
342. Jamie R - 9/22/2000 9:03:34 AM
I went to bed too early. Did the blonde Russian gymnast redo her vaults?
343. Wombat - 9/22/2000 9:17:09 AM
No.
Incidentally, that was the most fun event to watch so far. Next time, they should make the vaulting horse several inches too high. SPLAT.
I admire perfection as much as the next person, but watching gymnatics is like watching figure skating: one looks for the absolutely catastrophic failure.
344. alistairconnor - 9/22/2000 9:17:56 AM
Handball : France 23, Sweden 24.
But both are qualified for the quarter finals.
The French are very disappointed because they were leading until 2 minutes before the end, but they are excited about the result, because Sweden are THE reference in handball.
345. CalGal - 9/22/2000 9:27:26 AM
I thought the vault mixup was an outrage, and what really amazes me is that the SI/CNN site barely mentioned it as a factor in the outcome. Which, considering it was the primary determinant, is odd.
Given the fact that the height is mandatory, I'm surprised that someone didn't demand a) the entire competition be held over or b) that everyone--whether they did well or not--use the vault at its proper height and retest. Then they should have optionally given anyone the opportunity to redo all of their subsequent events.
Unbelievable.
346. alistairconnor - 9/22/2000 9:39:01 AM
New Zealand has been having a nightmarish Olympics, and has at last scored a medal : a bronze for veteran rider Mark Todd in the three-day equestrian event.
The American who won the gold medal is Todd's former, mmm, stable boy (just a little joke... Todd, a NZ sporting legend, recently came out as gay, and copped a lot of disapproving newspaper editorials. Bad example to our youth? Beg your pardon?)
Does anyone know how many Olympic events are actually open, i.e. where men and women compete on an equal footing, as in riding?
347. PsychProf - 9/22/2000 9:40:15 AM
Cal...yes. Imagine the pitchers mound being a foot short, the basket being 6 inches too low etc...
348. PsychProf - 9/22/2000 9:43:45 AM
FOR ALISTAIR...Mark Todd from New Zealand acknowledges
the crowds and waves as he steps up on the
bronze medal podium in the Sydney Olympic
Equestrian Stadium, September 22, 2000.
Todd, who has won 25 international
equestrian medals during his long riding
career, rode his last competition in the
Olympics and is retiring after winning this
bronze medal in the Individual Three-Day
Event. REUTERS/Jim Hollander 
349. CalGal - 9/22/2000 9:47:49 AM
I can't figure out why they allowed it. Granted, they were probably in shock at the time. But there should be someone who just says, whoa, halt. Stop. Regroup.
Instead, they just blunder on.
I suppose that is the norm, but it's pretty lousy. Why bother having mandatory standards if you are going to ignore them? The medalists should have a star by their name that indicates they won in a meet that didn't follow required procedure.
350. PsychProf - 9/22/2000 9:51:54 AM
STORY ON ILLADJUSTED VAULT HEIGHT
351. PsychProf - 9/22/2000 9:57:26 AM
FOR PELLE...Staffan Olsson (R) of Sweden tries to drive past Guillaume Gille of
France in their preliminary handball match at the Sydney 2000 Olympic
Games, September 22, 2000. Sweden won the match 24-23.
REUTERS/Alexander Demianchuk 
352. PsychProf - 9/22/2000 10:00:46 AM
Lars Froelander of Sweden celebrates after
winning the 100m butterfly final at the Sydney
2000 Olympic Games, September 22, 2000.
Froelander finished with a time of 52.00 seconds
and took gold, Michael Klim of Australia took
silver and Geoff Huegil. REUTERS/Ian Waldie 
353. Jamie R - 9/22/2000 10:02:14 AM
Cal, remember when Tonya Harding couldn't lace her skates, teared up and asked for a short break? They forced some other girl to skate in her place. The girl was still in the middle of her mental preparations when they interrupted her and chucked her out onto the ice. She screwed up royally.
354. PsychProf - 9/22/2000 10:03:20 AM
FOR STO...Denmark's Camilla Martin shows her silver medal at the podium after
the final against China's Zhichao Gong in their badminton final at the
Sydney Olympic Games, September 22, 2000. Gong won the final match
2-0 to win the gold medal. REUTERS/Zainal Abd Halim 
355. PsychProf - 9/22/2000 10:05:06 AM
Snowowl...are you from NZ?
356. Toenails - 9/22/2000 10:30:18 AM
"Are you old enough to remember a 1 - 0 shutout pitched by Sandy Kofax in a game that last 1 hour 49 minutes?
For me, games like that did not lack excitement"
....ranheim #316
Yes, ranheim, but you're making my point for me. The reason games like that are remembered more than 30 years later is that they were outside the norm.
If the entire Dodger rotation did the same thing for two weeks running, we might remember that, too...but if it were an everyday affair, week in and week out, after a while the fans would just stay home.
357. PsychProf - 9/22/2000 10:37:57 AM
I"m old enuff...even to know how to spell Koufax. Toe...good points about softball pitching. I remember when Joan Joyce struck out Hank Aaron three consecutive times in an exhibition.
358. CalGal - 9/22/2000 10:39:41 AM
Jamie,
Yes, I remember that. I thought she should have refused, and they wouldn't have had a leg to stand on--since they were violating procedure to let Harding have a break.
I don't know why I'm so annoyed by this. It just seems such a flagrant violation to allow a meet to count when its equipment didn't meet standards.
359. Toenails - 9/22/2000 10:50:42 AM
CalGal, you have a good point, of course, but Something tells me the Three Little Rumanians would have finished in the same order, regardless.
360. CalGal - 9/22/2000 10:56:35 AM
Same order, maybe, but not necessarily in the same places. The Russian diva, for all her whining, would have been in the hunt. Elise Ray probably would have finished in the top 6--which may not matter for medal counts but it sure as hell would matter to her.
361. glendajean - 9/22/2000 11:06:12 AM
Unbelievable.
Cal -- you need Tim Daggett de-tox.
He crept into your post.
362. Toenails - 9/22/2000 11:06:37 AM
Isn't being a Norwegian beach vollyball player something like being an Admiral in the Hungarian Navy?
363. PsychProf - 9/22/2000 11:12:59 AM
FOR TOENAILS...Vegard Hoidalen (2), left, and teammate Joerre Andre
Kjemperud of Norway both come to the net to set up a
shot against the United States in the men's beach
volleyball quarter finals of the 2000 Olympic Games
Friday, Sept. 22, 2000, at Bondi Beach in Sydney. The
USA defeated Norway15 -13. (AP Photo/Rick Bowmer) 
364. CalGal - 9/22/2000 11:14:46 AM
GJ,
That was a cold, cruel thing you said.
365. glendajean - 9/22/2000 11:26:46 AM
Hon, it could happen to any of us. I mean, WOW. If you had told me one week ago that Calgal would have said UNBELIEVABLE in a post on gymnastics....
366. Toenails - 9/22/2000 11:36:09 AM
Hey, I didn't say the Norwegians weren't GOOD. Just incongruous. ...Like the Jamaican Bobsled Team.
367. pellenilsson - 9/22/2000 11:39:31 AM
Gold! Gold! Gold!
It's not such a big upset as SnowOwl thinks. Frölander is among the top four in the butterfly event. Tomorrow we hope for another gold in the womens's 50 m free style.
Thanks for the pics PP!.
And congrats to Indonesia and Denmark.
368. pellenilsson - 9/22/2000 11:40:30 AM
Hell, toys.
369. CalGal - 9/22/2000 11:40:41 AM
Guessing on toys.
Sweden is doing well. Must be the drugs. (g)
370. pellenilsson - 9/22/2000 11:52:21 AM
CalGal
Thanks. What everyone here has an emotional investment in is the handball team. The core of the team has played together since the early nineties; some players are 35+. They have won everything: world championships, European championships (which is the same thing, but more difficult) but they lost to Croatia in the Atlanta finals.
371. CalGal - 9/22/2000 11:54:04 AM
That's quite a bit like our women's soccer team, although they've already had their win in the Worlds and the Olympics. But still, they've been together for a long time and are extremely popular nationally. A good group, overall.
372. marjoribanks - 9/22/2000 11:59:33 AM
STUNNING INDIAN HOT STREAK CONTINUES!!!! 
For the second Olympics in a row, the billion-strong Indian people have won a bronze medal! This time in the new Olympic sport of women's weightlifting! K. Malleswari! Can the country sustain such an exalted level of achievement?! Tune in next Olympics!
373. pellenilsson - 9/22/2000 1:18:13 PM
marj
How come India produces so few athletes?
374. PsychProf - 9/22/2000 1:24:00 PM
FOR MARJ...
India's Karnam Malleswari lifts 105kg in the
women's 69kg weightlifting snatch during the
Sydney Olympic Games, September 19, 2000.
Malleswari won the bronze medal with China's Lin
Weining winning gold. REUTERS/Oleg Popov 
375. labwabbit - 9/22/2000 2:26:34 PM
I still can't get over that little-something about my date being able to body-slam me.
I suppose, in time, I could learn to adjust to that. However, I must draw the line at bleeding testicles.
376. SnowOwl - 9/22/2000 2:27:27 PM
355. PsychProf - 9/23/00 2:05:06 AM
Snowowl...are you from NZ?
PsychProf, yes. I'm from a small city in the south of the South Island.
377. KuligintheHooligan - 9/22/2000 5:28:26 PM
Actually, why is it that India stinks in the Olympics?? I keep track of the medal count on the ESPN website. Currently, the number of medals won goes along well with country population. The US is first with 40, China just passed Australia for 2nd with 30, the Aussies (outdoing themselves in terms of population ratio) have 28, then France and Russia round out the top 5. India, with the world's second largest population, doesn't make the top 30!
Can a corrolation be made between worshipping rats and performing like them in the Olympics??
OK, seriously, really. Why doesn't India do well in the Olympics?
378. KuligintheHooligan - 9/22/2000 5:34:42 PM
According the ESPN "medal tracker," 54 countries have won medals in the current Olympics. Going to #36, which has won two medals, the remainder of the countries have all won one medal. India is by far the largest country in terms of population in these basement countries.
Here's a quick trivia question concerning the Olympics. Which is the only host country to never win a gold medal at the Olympics which they hosted? Name the country and year.
379. Jenerator - 9/22/2000 5:41:19 PM
When I think of Cricket, I think of India. When I think of any other sport, I don't think of India.
380. SnowOwl - 9/22/2000 6:02:27 PM
Way to go Rob Waddell! NZ's first, and probably only, gold medal winner these games (single sculls).
381. CalGal - 9/22/2000 6:10:38 PM
Vic,
I'm pretty sure it was Montreal, 76.
382. CalGal - 9/22/2000 6:10:56 PM
Country. Hmm, that would be Canada.
383. KuligintheHooligan - 9/22/2000 6:14:50 PM
CalGal, you da woman!
384. joezan - 9/22/2000 6:15:40 PM
I say Rome in '60.
385. joezan - 9/22/2000 6:16:32 PM
Nutz.
386. CalGal - 9/22/2000 6:17:22 PM
Rome is in Italy.
Hey, that's two country/city matchups!
387. stostosto - 9/22/2000 6:21:59 PM
Kuligin:
My best guess: Greece 1896.
Alternatively:
Belgium (Antwerp) 1928(?)
Australia (Melbourne) 1956.
Must be a small country, I figure. (Since India hasn't hosted it...)
Sweden (Stockholm) 1912, and Finland (Helsinki) 1952 might be candidates, but I doubt it - especially the Finns have always been good in athletics, and the Swedes surely managed to win a gold back then when competition was limited by people not being able to shoulder the huge travel costs to such a decidedly outlying place as Stockholm...
388. joezan - 9/22/2000 6:22:42 PM
Well, they were known as the "Rome Olympics".
As the '76 O's was known as the "Montreal Olympics".
As the 2000 O's is known as the "Sydney Olympics"...
389. CalGal - 9/22/2000 6:23:07 PM
No, a Greek won the marathon in 1896. I think he cheated, though.
It's Montreal, I'm pretty sure of it. It's a fairly common Olympic trivia question.
390. glendajean - 9/22/2000 6:26:11 PM
I was in Germany during the Montreal Olympics. It was on all the tvs, but I never watched any tv so I missed it.
I remember the housing design for the Olympic Village, something out of ancient Babylon or Persia, stacked in overlaps.
391. KuligintheHooligan - 9/22/2000 6:26:48 PM
CalGal got it right the first time, thus my "you da woman" comment. It was Montreal in 76.
392. stostosto - 9/22/2000 6:27:27 PM
Well, Kuligin already congratulated you on that answer, Cal.
I am surprised though.
I am also surprised at how many medals the Ozzies have scored this time around. A country of 18m people getting almost as much metal as the US with 270m. It's strange, I think. Are Australians always that prominent in the Olympics? I never noticed it before.
393. KuligintheHooligan - 9/22/2000 6:27:54 PM
I think it is also true that the Montreal Olympics were one of the biggest financial busts of any Olympics, at least in recent decades.
394. KuligintheHooligan - 9/22/2000 6:28:56 PM
sto, I think they have "burned out" when it comes to their strengths. I don't think you'll see the Ausies winning many more. The US, on the other hand, will probably make a killing from here on out.
395. glendajean - 9/22/2000 6:30:04 PM
Host counry teams (minus 1970s Canadians) usually do better than their teams do at Olympic games out-of-country.
396. CalGal - 9/22/2000 6:30:54 PM
Yes, it was, although most Olympics hadn't been a huge moneymaker before then. I know that Pete Ueberroth was the man who showed everyone how to make money at it. I can't remember how Atlanta did; I seem to recall some controvery. Seoul and Barcelona did okay, as I recall.
Of course, that's Summer Olympics. I'm not sure how the Winter ones pan out--they usually don't cost anywhere near as much money.
Sto,
Aussies have always done pretty well at sports.
397. glendajean - 9/22/2000 6:31:48 PM
I'ved enjoyed the surprise of the Dutch swimmers who have bested Aussie and American teams in a few races.
Lord, those little girls who do gymnastics look thin and pathetic. UNBELIEVABLE.
398. CalGal - 9/22/2000 6:31:53 PM
Yeah, Vic is right about why the medal count is so close right now, too. Swimming is one of their strongest sports--although now more than I can remember in the recent past.
399. stostosto - 9/22/2000 6:32:21 PM
Yeah, I guess the "Track and Field" will boost the US standing. Australia does have Kathy Jones, though (isn't that her name? The 400m girl that lit the Olympic fire and who scared Perec off? Shame about that, I liked her behind exceedingly much).
400. CalGal - 9/22/2000 6:32:40 PM
I'ved enjoyed the surprise of the Dutch swimmers who have bested Aussie and American teams in a few races.
How can you put this in the same post as your wailing about little girls? The Dutch are DRUGGED, dammit. Haven't you been reading my posts???????? (Daggetted nab it!)
401. glendajean - 9/22/2000 6:33:14 PM
Sto, you dirty man.
402. glendajean - 9/22/2000 6:33:33 PM
Even Pieter?
403. CalGal - 9/22/2000 6:46:56 PM
Pieter was a question mark after one medal. Now I'm increasingly suspicious. Inje is a given.
404. stostosto - 9/22/2000 6:49:48 PM
marj Message # 372
I wonder what your old pal Mr Srinivasan's take might be on the relative performance of India and China.
405. stostosto - 9/22/2000 7:27:45 PM
The New Republic: Scrap the Olympics
Including a comment on the India/China puzzle:
"Ever wonder why India, which is nearly as big as China and at least as sports-obsessed, has won fewer than one-tenth as many medals? It's because China, as a dictatorship, can do what it takes to win--spend vast sums on government-run sports facilities in every major city; take complete control of young athletes' lives; and, if necessary, pump them full of performance-enhancing steroids to give them an edge. "
406. stostosto - 9/22/2000 7:29:10 PM
(It's tempting to ask why the USA which isn't nearly as big as either wins even more medals than China...)
407. CalGal - 9/22/2000 7:49:21 PM
Especially since our sports aren't state run.
408. knotafrayed - 9/22/2000 8:35:52 PM
Excuse the intrusion. Just popped in from PP's bar where Message # 9446 in thread 21 shouldacouldwoulda been more appropos here. Awright, I'm outta here!
409. Nostradamus - 9/22/2000 8:48:37 PM
Canadians are whining because we only have 4 medals so far. Boo fucking hoo. Who should we blame? Blame Canada, I say. Bunch of fucking crybaby liberal hillbillies.
410. ranheim - 9/22/2000 9:22:20 PM
#356
I graduated from high school in 1953 and started medical school in 1957; had little time to watch after that.
But these were the years of the "Boys Of Summer"; that is why they are remembered. And there was a lot of talent on those teams. Koufax and Drysdale are probably the most famous pitchers. But, those Dodgers also had Joe Black; Roger Craig; Carl Erskine; Clem Labine; Don Newcome; Ron Perranoski; and Johnny Podres. I was, obviously, a big fan of the Dodgers in those days. And low scoring, short ball games were quite frequent; not the aberrations that I think you implied.
411. CalGal - 9/22/2000 9:37:41 PM
I like this little piece by Tim Leyden, in Sports Illustrated:
SYDNEY, Australia -- I rode the train home to my hotel from Olympic Park Wednesday night with a guy named Mike Adkins. His daughter, Amanda, is a U.S. swimmer in the 200-meter backstroke.
Nice guy and a proud dad. He looked tired from schlepping all over Sydney, and a little bedraggled from paying about $700 (U.S.) a night to watch swimming on the nights Amanda wasn't in the pool (he gets comped for those sessions).
"I'm not really a father, I'm a pack mule," Mike joked as he gathered up his gear to get off the train at Central Station.
There's more to Olympic parenting than waving flags for NBC, and it ain't all pretty. My daughter is a swimmer, too, and I'm thinking, This guy has spent a lot of years breathing chlorine fumes. But that's OK, because his little girl swam in the Olympics Thursday. "Wouldn't trade it for the world," he said.
You go, Dad.
412. CalGal - 9/23/2000 1:00:56 AM
Pelle,
Just saw Lars win. Great race, and his joy was fun to see.
413. CalGal - 9/23/2000 2:56:25 AM
In the continuing series of random comments:
Watching Kaitlen Sandeno sneak a quick look at Brooke Bennett (oh, no! she's not putting her hand over her heart. Am I supposed to? But it's too late!) was such a flashback to 17, and being afraid to look different. Very cute.
The 50 meter free was simply perfect. Hall had a great meet, after having been given no chance at all in this Olympics. My very first memory of the Olympics was the opening ceremonies in Montreal, where Hall's dad was the flag bearer, so lordy, it was sweet when the camera showed the proud pop. Earvin seems like a great kid, too--properly squelched the asshole commentator.
Am I the only one who wonders why NBC doesn't just steal the IBM commercials? They are far more informative, reasonably clever, and . I get sniffly every time that guy says, "Senegal is going to the O-lym-pics."
414. PelleNilsson - 9/23/2000 3:08:08 AM
The hoped-for gold for Therese Alshammar in the 50 m freestyle turned into silver. Double Australia in the 1500 m with Hackett before Perkins. Bronze to Russia.
415. CalGal - 9/23/2000 3:11:30 AM
Hey. Spoil those puppies.
416. PelleNilsson - 9/23/2000 5:41:04 AM
The men's and women's 100 m races have been decided. When will they be broadcast in the US?
417. KuligintheHooligan - 9/23/2000 5:44:03 AM
Current top 5, as Australia pushes back past China for 2nd:
Country Gold Silver Bronze Total
United States 20 11 18 49
Australia 9 15 11 35
China 14 9 9 32
Russia 7 8 10 25
France 10 10 4 24
418. PelleNilsson - 9/23/2000 7:13:03 AM
The javelin was won by Jan Zelasny of Chechia, a fantastic athlete, always at his best in the big championships. This was his third straight Olympic gold. Silver went to another veteran, Steve Backley of the UK. Russia's Makarov was third. No medal for Finland which is a huge disappontment for them, having won 20 medals in the javelin over the the years, of which seven gold.
419. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/23/2000 9:03:22 AM
I know I'm weighing in a bit late on this question... but I can offer a few insights as to why India wins so few medals. Unlike China, which has a massive state-sponsored sports network, and rich nations, which have massive privately-sponsored sports networks, athletes in countries like India and Indonesia (pop. 210 million) have no support for their activities. They have to do everything on their own, without international-calibre coaching, performance-enhancing-drugs, and, most importantly, money.
The exception in Indonesia is badminton, which has lots of money from international professional events. India doesn't have a similar sport in the Olympics.
The performance of those few Indians who do win medals should be evaluated in light of this, as their accomplishments are truly exceptional.
420. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/23/2000 9:04:28 AM
In the interests of preserving the illusions of tape delay, I won't mention the huge upset which occurred today. Wow.
421. stostosto - 9/23/2000 9:07:00 AM
Pelle
I saw Jörgen Petterson's quarter final in table tennis. That was absolutely phenomenal!
I also saw some of J:O Waldner's match, but after he lost the two first games, I went to bed as it was idotically late. Did he lose?
---
I just saw Brazil lose 2-1 against Cameroon in football soccer. Also a bit of a sensation. Not least because of the way it happened. After Cameroon had led 1-0 on a goal after 16 minutes, Brazil scored three minutes into the overtime (put, a little mysteriously, at four minutes). The goal was on a free kick which also had resulted in the expulsion of a Cameroonian - their second expulsion in the match. So they had to face Brazil in the extension with only 9 players left for 2x15 min, or until the first goal. And yet it was Cameroon who scored that goal! Incredible. What's wrong with them Brazilians?!
422. stostosto - 9/23/2000 9:07:40 AM
"Javelin" - what's that?
423. stostosto - 9/23/2000 9:09:19 AM
Oh, spear.. Why didn't you say so.
424. stostosto - 9/23/2000 9:14:24 AM
The coxless fours final won by the Brits was also a great spectacle. My, are those guys finished after them 2,000 meters! Incredible story about that 38 year old guy whatsitsname who has now won gold at 5 (five!) consecutive OGs. Hey, he's older than me! And has diabetes to boot.
425. PelleNilsson - 9/23/2000 11:47:11 AM
Why is everybody so anxious to excuse India? Look at Kenya, Morocco, Algeria, Bahamas. It's just lack of organisation and purpose, but then India is famous for that.
426. jexster - 9/23/2000 11:57:38 AM
Hey Pelle set me up with that Lars butterfly fella...quite a tasty dish!
427. CalGal - 9/23/2000 12:12:19 PM
Irv,
In other countries, excellent athletes with no sports programs go to university in another country. As Pelle and I discussed earlier, the US trained many Swedish swimmers over the years, until they developed their own program. That's true for a number of countries still--I imagine even now a good percentage of the swimming medalists went to school in the US, and I'm pretty sure that's true for track and field, too.
So one would think that at least a few Indian athletes would have grown disgusted with their own country's lack of support and gone elsewhere.
Pelle,
Not until tonight. I already know who won them--it's hard to miss sometimes. But I've been pretty good at avoiding the swimming medals up to now, and the 50 free had some genuine suspense to it, so I didn't wanna know.
428. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/23/2000 1:14:18 PM
Pelle:
Your point? Those countries are either far richer than India or far smaller. The only one of your examples which might be comparable is Kenya, and Kenyan runners (and only runners) have been trained and recruited by western schools because of their innate athletic abilities (which is another story altogether).
Cal:
US universities aren't going to India recruiting athletes, and those Indian athletes certainly don't have the funds to go overseas.
But developing an athlete begins long before the university level, and if there are no organized and funded youth sports programs, and no international-calibre coaches, potential star athletes won't even get that far.
429. CalGal - 9/23/2000 1:23:23 PM
Irv,
I think the lack of youth programs might contribute, but I still wonder if there isn't some general lack of interest in sports that starts the whole thing off. I dunno.
430. CalGal - 9/23/2000 1:24:12 PM
For example, the Kenyans started winning before they were recruited, didn't they?
431. PsychProf - 9/23/2000 1:59:40 PM
SPEEDOS
click on photo 
432. PsychProf - 9/23/2000 2:07:07 PM
I LOVE BASEBALL
click on photo 
433. PsychProf - 9/23/2000 2:11:17 PM
FOR SNOWOWL...New Zealand rower Rob Waddell (R) looks over at Canadian Derek
Porter following the Men's Single Sculls at the Olympic rowing,
September 23, 2000. Waddell won the gold medal while Porter placed
fourth and out of the medals. REUTERS/Andy Clark 
434. PsychProf - 9/23/2000 2:16:18 PM
FOR NOSTRADAMUS...Mathieu Turgeon of Canada performs his
compulsory routine on the way to winning
the bronze medal in the first ever men's
trampoline competition at the Summer
Olympics in Sydney on Saturday, Sept. 23,
2000. (AP Photo/Amy Sancetta) 
435. PsychProf - 9/23/2000 2:27:49 PM
THREEPEAT
click on photo 
436. PsychProf - 9/23/2000 2:29:10 PM
Knot...keep double dippin over here. Giants suck eniwez...
437. KuligintheHooligan - 9/23/2000 2:35:32 PM
"In the interests of preserving the illusions of tape delay, I won't mention the huge upset which occurred today. Wow."
Irv, please tell us tomorrow to what exactly you were referring here.
As for the discussion about India and such, Namibia is certainly a good example of a country that has some good athletes but next to no internal structure to encourage them. Frankie Fredericks had to go to the US to get the top-notch training he needed to become a world-class athlete.
However, in Namibia sports are very important and a large part of the culture/societal fabric. I haven't a clue if that is true for India, but it just seems odd to me that a country of nearly a billion people can't produce a couple world-class athletes.
438. PsychProf - 9/23/2000 2:42:00 PM
439. CalGal - 9/23/2000 2:43:06 PM
Vic,
Yeah, exactly. Frankie Fredericks was good, so he went to America. But how did he know he was good? Is it the youth programs? Is it just that he had the desire?
440. PsychProf - 9/23/2000 2:49:31 PM
FOR VIC(FROM 1996)
click on frankie fredericks 
441. PelleNilsson - 9/23/2000 2:52:16 PM
CalGal
You say the 100m finals will be broadcast "tonight" in the US. That works out to something like a 20 hour delay. The finals are at about 2 a.m your time. Why can't NBC pump them out live and do a summary in the evening? What more important programming do they have in the small hours of the morning?
442. jexster - 9/23/2000 2:54:27 PM
Lars Frolander RULZ!!!
443. PelleNilsson - 9/23/2000 2:56:37 PM
jexster
I've set it up with Lars. 16.45 local time Monday in the bar of Sheraton, Sidney. Bring him my regards-
444. jexster - 9/23/2000 2:58:37 PM
Tnx Pelle...we'll stop by after the honeymoon!
445. CalGal - 9/23/2000 3:00:21 PM
Pelle,
Because Dick Enberg, president of the NBC sports division, is not selling to the hard core sports fan, but to the casual Olympics fan. He thought that they would eat up his nightly packaged fare.
He was wrong. The casual Olympics fan had gotten the news all day, and the hardcore OLympics fan thinks the coverage sucks.
Happily, NBC is being punished with the worst ratings since the 1968 Games. Unhappily, the idiots will decide that it is due to the time lag and instead of determining to provide better coverage they will undoubtedly pressure the Olympic selection committee to limit their host cities to those in accomodating time zones. The Committee, looking at the monster rights fees they can command from NBC, will probably accede to their demands.
446. PsychProf - 9/23/2000 3:01:46 PM
Lars already has a squeeze... 
447. PsychProf - 9/23/2000 3:14:20 PM
Finland's Arsi Harju in action during the men's Shot Put final at
the Sydney Olympic Games September 22, 2000. Harju won the
gold, USA's Adam Nelson won the silver medal and USA's John
Godina took the bronze medal. REUTERS/Jerry Lampen 
448. PsychProf - 9/23/2000 3:18:13 PM
FOOTBALL THIS
click on photo 
449. CalGal - 9/23/2000 3:22:36 PM
Good lord. I just saw that I wrote Dick Enberg. Buzz! Sorry, Cal. But thanks for playing.
It's Dick Ebersole, sorry.
450. PsychProf - 9/23/2000 3:41:15 PM
THIS IS THE OFF-THE-PLATE SLIDE THAT HAS ENRAGED THE USA TEAM 
451. PsychProf - 9/23/2000 3:57:43 PM
452. PelleNilsson - 9/23/2000 4:11:00 PM
sto
Sorry, I overlooked your Message # 421
Both Persson and Waldner are through to the semi-finals.
453. PelleNilsson - 9/23/2000 4:12:13 PM
PP
Let's keep the inferior sport of baseball out of this.
454. KuligintheHooligan - 9/23/2000 5:04:31 PM
No more difficult thing to do in any sport in the world than to hit a fastball in baseball.
So there, you Swedish ignoramous!
455. KuligintheHooligan - 9/23/2000 5:07:04 PM
We watched the 100m finals here in Namibia about 5 hours ago. VERY exciting.
CalGal, Frankie was just plum fast. Very fast and everybody knew it. But if he had just stayed in Namibia, he probably wouldn't have gotten very far. So he went to the States, some university that I can't recall, and trained there.
456. KuligintheHooligan - 9/23/2000 5:20:24 PM
Current medal count:
Country Gold Silver Bronze Total
United States 20 12 18 50
China 17 11 11 39
Australia 10 16 11 37
Russia 8 8 12 28
France 10 10 5 25
Anybody know what the record is for most medals by a country in a single Olympics?
457. CalGal - 9/23/2000 5:21:28 PM
I know. BTW, Frank Fredericks is just an awesome runner.
But the question is, are there Frank Fredericks in India and Indonesia who are being ignored because there are no venues for them to perform, or aren't there any to begin with?
458. KuligintheHooligan - 9/23/2000 5:33:29 PM
My guess, CalGal, and it is just a guess, is that there are no avenues. Obviously there must be some naturally talented athletes in those countries. So where are they?
Here in Namibia, athletics are very important and start at a very young age. So a Fredericks can be seen to be good, and perhaps then encouraged to go elsewhere to develop those skills.
Basketball is very popular here. I can remember when I first came here seeing the guys play. They weren't that good. Now, 6 years later, they have improved dramatically. But for a guy with natural talents and ability to get anywhere in the sport, he'd have to leave Namibia to do it. And who would "discover" him is another question. I can't imagine that Fredericks had enough money on his own to go to the States for the education, so someone must have discovered him.
Here's another semi-related question. How many muslim-dominated countries compete, and compete well, in the Olympics?
459. CalGal - 9/23/2000 5:34:52 PM
Vic,
Most medals would have to be either the Soviet Union in 80 or the US in 84.
460. CalGal - 9/23/2000 5:36:18 PM
I don't know how many Muslim countries compete, but is Morocco considered Muslim? That'd be my first pick.
461. CalGal - 9/23/2000 5:38:39 PM
Iran has won a medal or two. I seem to recall Pakistan medalling. Syria, Egypt often end up in the top 8 in various events, and sometimes medal. So it's not all that rare.
462. CalGal - 9/23/2000 5:42:18 PM
Oh, for god's sake. Synchronized DIVING????
463. rubberducky - 9/23/2000 5:46:52 PM
the coverage may suck, but NBC gets the clicks
Nielsen//NetRatings, the Internet audience measurement service from Nielsen Media Research, ACNielsen eRatings.com and NetRatings, Inc., reports that NBCOlympics.com, held the top daily ranking for Olympic-related sites in the U.S. across the span of six days, from last Friday, the day of the Olympics opening ceremony, to Wednesday, September 20. Olympics.com secured the No. 2 spot for the same time period.
464. PelleNilsson - 9/24/2000 3:39:12 AM
Among Muslim countries, Morocco and Algeria have many good runners, both male and female.
465. PelleNilsson - 9/24/2000 3:41:11 AM
One notes more than a sprinkling of Greeks in finals and semi-finals. Seems they have started the build-up for 2004.
466. Nostradamus - 9/24/2000 10:10:34 AM
Oh ye of little faith. Canadians have raised their medal total to an astounding 5 with 2 recent Bronzes in Trampolining! Go Canada!
Trampolining???
467. PsychProf - 9/24/2000 11:36:31 AM
DARTMOUTH MAN
click on ted murphy and squeeze 
468. PsychProf - 9/24/2000 11:41:58 AM
Compare what's below with the snit the Russian women gymnasts displayed when they ripped their silver medals off in obvious disgust...
THE JOY HERE IS CONTAGIOUS
click on ji wallace(right) 
469. PsychProf - 9/24/2000 11:46:41 AM
MUSTA BEEN ALL THE FRIES
click on larger person 
470. PsychProf - 9/24/2000 12:03:04 PM
HUNTER PREPARES TO INJEST STEROID PILL 
471. marquatz - 9/24/2000 12:06:20 PM
well done page Psyc. very funny on hunter.
472. PsychProf - 9/24/2000 12:08:59 PM
Thanks Marquatz...post more often.
473. PsychProf - 9/24/2000 12:20:04 PM
MORE "FOOTBALL THIS"
click on mia 
474. PsychProf - 9/24/2000 12:35:50 PM
EVERYONE CAN PLAY THIS
click on photo 
475. labwabbit - 9/24/2000 12:38:15 PM
I want a new drug...
476. PsychProf - 9/24/2000 1:03:57 PM
Always whinin...what's wrong with the old ones...
477. labwabbit - 9/24/2000 1:19:41 PM
They're detectable. [And they don't taste good either]
478. CalGal - 9/25/2000 3:05:11 AM
Gosh, today (or yesterday, for you folks on the other side of the world) was a good Olympics day.
Laura Wilkinson's win was spectacular, the marathon was exciting, the individual gymnastics events were all satisfactory--I particularly liked the Hungarian guy on the rings, who has always finished second until now--and best of all, CJ Hunter got busted.
479. PelleNilsson - 9/25/2000 3:29:06 AM
Has Hunter been under suspicion? More than others, I mean.
480. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/25/2000 4:58:12 AM
Wrt the medals won by Islamic countries discussion above...
I am pleased to report that Indonesia, with 6 medals and a population which is 90% Muslim, leads all Islamic countries.
This is also a record medal haul for Indonesia already, despite the economic crisis and no virtually no money for sports and athletes.
481. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/25/2000 4:59:25 AM
The only other Islamic country with more than one medal is Turkey, which has three.
482. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/25/2000 5:00:24 AM
Interesting, too, that Indonesia and Turkey are regarded as the most liberal Islamic countries.
483. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/25/2000 5:01:40 AM
Islamic countries with one medal: Azerbaijan, Kyrgyzstan, Kuwait ansd Algeria.
484. stostosto - 9/25/2000 5:05:09 AM
Pelle, this just in:
Jörgen Pettersson lost the bronze match against Liu Guoliang. Pity. I had tipped him to a medal after his brilliant quarter final performance.
J-O is on in the final in ten minutes. I'll be following it online here.
485. stostosto - 9/25/2000 5:07:30 AM
If I had the time, I would compile the data to run a regression plotting GDP per cap. against OG medals per cap.
You could do the same for democracies vs. dictatorships.
My guess is the correlation with GDP is strong.
486. stostosto - 9/25/2000 5:50:52 AM
Table tennis: It's looking tough for J-O. Down 2 games now.
"Tyvärr så lyckas han inte rädda den andra. 21-19 slutar setet och nu leder Kong Linghui med 2-0. Tungt!"
487. stostosto - 9/25/2000 5:57:57 AM
"Waldner vinner en nyckelboll vid ställningen 17-17. 18-17 till J-O nu."
488. stostosto - 9/25/2000 6:03:39 AM
Waldner won third game!
Leads 9-6 in fourth, the Chinese is looking shaken.
489. stostosto - 9/25/2000 6:05:13 AM
11:59 Live uppdatering Se alla tidigare uppdateringar
13-7 till J-O som spelar helt underbar pingis nu.
490. stostosto - 9/25/2000 6:05:40 AM
J-O plays 'wonderful table tennis right now'
491. DaveM - 9/25/2000 6:06:53 AM
I wish I could be watching. I love table tennis. Perhaps they will show some of the match in the US later on today.
492. stostosto - 9/25/2000 6:07:00 AM
16-9 till J-O och det verkar som om vi får en femte och avgörande set.
16-9 - on the way to a fifth and decisive game.
493. stostosto - 9/25/2000 6:11:27 AM
"JAAAAAAAAA! J-O vinner det fjärde setet med 21-14 och nu har vi ett femte set att se fram emot."
Any need for translation? Waldner equalises to 2 games all. Now for the fifth and final!
Dang, I wish I could watch this on TV...
494. stostosto - 9/25/2000 6:13:54 AM
OOps
"7-1 till kinesen och svensken tar time-out"
Waldner takes a time-out behind 7-1 in fifth game. The Chinese may have just thrown the fourth in order to concentrate on the final game...
495. stostosto - 9/25/2000 6:14:35 AM
ooops!!!
9-1 ?!
496. stostosto - 9/25/2000 6:17:02 AM
"12-6 till Kong, som tar time-out. Kan J-O vända det här?"
Kong calls a time-out leading 12-6.
497. stostosto - 9/25/2000 6:18:58 AM
12:13 Live uppdatering Se alla tidigare uppdateringar
15-10 till kinesen. J-O servar nu.
498. stostosto - 9/25/2000 6:23:56 AM
Ahhhhh....
"Kong Linghui blir den nye OS-mästaren i pingis. Han slår J-O Waldner med 3-2 i set (21-13 i avgörande).
Waldner får nöja sig med silvret."
Kong Linghui is new Olympic Champion in table tennis. He beats J-O Waldner 3-2 (21-13 in the decider).
Waldner must make do with silver.
499. stostosto - 9/25/2000 6:26:20 AM
I guess silver isn't half bad for such a cross-eyed retard...
500. stostosto - 9/25/2000 6:31:00 AM
Man, I gotta run, but I have to post this: 
Venus is in the final after trouncing Monica Seles 6-1, 4-6, 6-3 in the semi-final. She is going to play a Russian - no, not that Russian - some girl named Elena Dementieva, never heard of her...
Why are people so fixated on Anna Kournikova anyway? Me, I'll pick the Williams sisters over her any day. Man, they are gorgeous!
501. PsychProf - 9/25/2000 7:26:02 AM
ANOTHER DARTMOUTH MAN
click on adam nelson 
502. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/25/2000 7:30:44 AM
One addendum to my earlier comments about medals won by Islamic countries. None of the medals won by Indonesia in this Olympics have been won by Muslims. In fact, none of the medals won by Indonesia in the '92 and '96 Olympics were won by Muslim athletes either. The only medal won by Indonesian Muslim athletes was a silver in team archery in '88, won by three women.
So, we return to the original question -- is Islam comaptible with sports?
503. PsychProf - 9/25/2000 7:39:24 AM
Depends upon where you are on the global map.
504. PsychProf - 9/25/2000 7:47:47 AM
PRESSURECOOKER
click on kathy freeman 
505. stostosto - 9/25/2000 7:54:27 AM
I don't think Islam is comaptible with sports. But it may be compatible.
506. stostosto - 9/25/2000 7:55:12 AM
Irv, aren't Indonesia's badminton players Muslims? What then?
507. Wombat - 9/25/2000 8:49:23 AM
Aren't the Moroccans, Tunisians, and Algerians who win track medals Muslim?
508. PelleNilsson - 9/25/2000 9:16:15 AM
sto
Thanks for the blow-by-blow. I listened on the car radio until 11.55 but had to get out just when J-O had won the third set. I had some hopes then. He has turmed matches around before, last against Samsonov, but, alas, it was not to be. He later blamed a slight lack of concentration in the beginning of the final set. We should say that the Chinese is not any old Chinese, but the reigning world champion.
509. RosettaStone - 9/25/2000 9:36:35 AM
NBC executives are all upset about how low the TV ratings are for the Olympics. They had promised advertisers at least a 16 rating---or they would do make-goods.
The highest rating, so far, is 14.
Worse for the suits is the bad buzz for NBC's all-tape, all-the-times Olympics.
What's especially getting heat is the phony human-interest stories of some of the troubled American athletes, rather than just showing the actual sporting events.
The bottom line is that NBC just announced that it will show one of the pro baseball playoff games on Oct. 3 instead of the first presidential debate.
One reason, not stated, is to have the live sports programming to do make-goods for the ad agencies who paid the big bucks for the Olympic commercials that no one saw.
510. PsychProf - 9/25/2000 9:45:43 AM
Stone...see 9461 in PP's SportsBar. There you will find out why the baseball game is being shown. If the debate was at another time, I am sure NBC would broadcast it.
511. alistairconnor - 9/25/2000 9:49:06 AM
What correlates well with Olympic success.
USA / China / Russia /Australia / France. Let's see...
I wonder if Australia has secretly been developing nuclear weapons? I suggest they should replace the U.K. on the Security Council of the UN.
512. RosettaStone - 9/25/2000 9:52:38 AM
The so-called bipartisan Presidential Commission picked those dates, including Oct 3, months ago so that they wouldn't interfere with the baseball playoffs.
However I will go to your bar and read the explanation. Thanks
513. PsychProf - 9/25/2000 10:00:05 AM
Stone...I have no inside info here...I am just linking the AP release.
514. RosettaStone - 9/25/2000 10:01:18 AM
I read it, PP. It said that the Presidential Commission knew of the conflict on October 3.
Strange.
Back when G. Bush had objected to doing the debates on the commission's schedule, one reason the Commission said to stick to it was because they had known the televised baseball schedule--and worked around them.
The bottom line is that both Fox and NBC have cable operations and will program the presidential debates on them.
515. marjoribanks - 9/25/2000 10:02:59 AM
There are lots and lots of cases of Muslim countries producing top athletes. However, it may be that the very strict form of Islam practiced in a few countries is incompatible with producing world-class sportsmen/women. Pakistan, for instance, has produced some of the world's best cricket players, hockey players and a veritable dynasty in squash. But these athletes don't keep the roza fast (generally) that for instance everyone in the Middle East does. Then you have the weightlifters from Bulgaria and Turkey, they certainly don't adhere to the most pressing strictures of the religion. You also have the long distance runners from places like Algeria.
Notably, you have the solitary case of Hakeem Olajuwon, the world-class championship-winning NBA center. He not only keeps the fasts demanded of him, he has actually played NBA playoff games during Ramadan without even wetting his lips.
All in all, yes, Islam as practiced in most of the world is very much compatible with sports, even top quality sports.
516. stostosto - 9/25/2000 10:03:34 AM
alistair
I read that the British tested their nuclear weapons in the Australian outback way back when. Perhaps you really are on to something here...
517. stostosto - 9/25/2000 10:05:49 AM
marj
All in all, yes, Islam as practiced in most of the world is very much compatible with sports, even top quality sports.
Yes, that's what I thought. But I still doubt that it's comaptible.
518. PsychProf - 9/25/2000 10:18:08 AM
IS THERE ANY DENIAL HERE?
click on hunter 
519. marjoribanks - 9/25/2000 10:21:13 AM
One cannot forget the several African-American converts to Islam who have played top quality sports. Ali, Jabbar, etc.
Really, there is no doubt that Islam is compatible with top-quality sports. What is incompatible is fundamentalism combined with poverty. Even fundamentalism alone isn't enough to hold some athletes back. Remember that Iran and Saudi Arabia both field world-class soccer teams.
Poverty alone, however, trumps everything.
520. PelleNilsson - 9/25/2000 10:22:14 AM
There is a guy from Saudi Arabia in the final of the men's 400m hurdlles and a Moroccan in the women's event. On distances from 1500m and up North Africans and Kenyans (some of whom may be Muslims) dominate together with Ethiopians (some of whom may be too, I guess).
521. stostosto - 9/25/2000 10:22:54 AM
Muhammad Ali was a sports proficient Muslim.
522. marjoribanks - 9/25/2000 10:23:03 AM
If the olympics consisted of the sports of falconry and camel racing, we'd be asking ourselves if ONLY Islam is compatible with sports.
523. stostosto - 9/25/2000 10:24:27 AM
marj
I wouldn't call SA and Iran world powers in football/soccer.
But I agree on your point.
Btw: Has Srinivasan commented on the Olympics?
524. PsychProf - 9/25/2000 10:25:55 AM
Can the Olympics can be viewed w/o the lens of Nationalism?
525. marjoribanks - 9/25/2000 10:27:07 AM
Srinivasan is mulling the language issue in India currently, sto.
But you are being rather a Eurocentric elitist in your put-down of S. Arabia and Iran. Both countries have played at the World Cup and both are veritable powerhouses in the Asia region. There is no doubt that both are by deinition world-class soccer playing nations.
526. PsychProf - 9/25/2000 10:27:37 AM
Banks...but they don't consist of those two activities...therein lies the interest of the question.
527. marjoribanks - 9/25/2000 10:30:17 AM
The most positive forms of patriotism come apparent during the Olympics. In most countries, it's relatively muted until one countryman/woman comes good. In the USA it manifests itself in an ugly media boycott of any event without American hopes, however. It's not the country or the people I blame, it's piece-of-crap tinsel-wrapped NBC.
I bet you if British coverage were available on PBS, it would outdraw NBC. That's a serious bet.
528. alistairconnor - 9/25/2000 10:30:30 AM
I've been trying hard to come up with something interesting to say about New Zealand's dismal performance so far - only four medals.
The best I can do is: NZ is tops among the "small" nations. If we arbitrarily place the bar at 5 million population, (cunningly cutting off Finland and Slovakia... who are currently behind us, but you never know...) then our nearest rivals are Lithuania, with half our population and three medals, and Croatia with two medals (but wait, if I put the bar at 4 million I can cut them off too...)
529. marjoribanks - 9/25/2000 10:32:32 AM
Costas and Couric at the opening ceremonies congratulating each other for learning that West Africans wear boubous. Stomach-churning provincialism. "Those funny natives from funny non-medal-winning countries, they wear such funny clothes with funny names." Retch.
530. PsychProf - 9/25/2000 10:34:24 AM
Marj...yer on with that bet. And noone watched the OJ trial either...NBC knows what the viewing pubic will and won't watch, and they cater.
531. marjoribanks - 9/25/2000 10:35:57 AM
Yeah, connor, but if you also cut out wussie sports like equestrianism (these are supposed to be the human olympics) where does Aotearoa stand? Huh?
532. PsychProf - 9/25/2000 10:36:00 AM
Haha...pubic.
533. marjoribanks - 9/25/2000 10:38:29 AM
Prof.
I believe you are wrong. The fact that viewership is dramatically down this year proves the point. In a sports mad America, with the most compelling spectacle in sports available for coverage, NBC manages to lost the ratings race rather comprehensively. Why? Because they insist on turning real-life drama into canned pap like just another soap opera. Someday, someone will get the picture. And you just may see "normal" olympics coverage in your lifetime. It'll be worth it believe me.
534. alistairconnor - 9/25/2000 10:41:16 AM
So let's see... if we use NZ as a benchmark, with just over one medal per million inhabitants, how do the top five look?
USA : about 0.2
China : 0.04
Russia : 0.3
Australia : 2.3
France : 0.5
Has any nation ever beaten that Australian medal to population ratio?
Well, it's not over yet.
(What a silly game!)
535. marjoribanks - 9/25/2000 10:42:37 AM
Connor,
Go run the numbers on Cuba. It beats every other "small" country, I am completely sure.
536. alistairconnor - 9/25/2000 10:44:41 AM
Cuba : Population: 11,141,997 (July 2000 est.) 9 medals so far.
Nyah nyah nyah.
537. PsychProf - 9/25/2000 10:44:49 AM
Marj...normal coverage would be what? Events that are simply shown and summarized? Which events does one show? Who is going to pay for all this?
538. marjoribanks - 9/25/2000 10:49:56 AM
Connor,
Oh okay. But there's time yet. Also, um, they're not doing as well as they usually do.
Prof,
Hard to describe UK/normal coverage to you if you haven't seen it. The national exchecquer (eg BBC) pays for it and it isn't that expensive in the first place, and a broad variety of events are broadcast "straight" that is without lengthy tear-jerking intros. And medal ceremonies are often skipped. In such a scenario, most events get at least a look-see, and many entire ranges (ie track and field) are shown in entirety.
I suggest you spend the next Olympics in Europe checking out the coverage.
539. CalGal - 9/25/2000 10:52:24 AM
I bet you if British coverage were available on PBS, it would outdraw NBC.
It's a good bet, and I think you'd win. But I don't think it's because the American coverage is particularly jingoistic--in fact, the Aussies have been bitching daily about the biased coverage they have to deal with.
I think it's because the American coverage is just terrible, and it doesn't cover the events comprehensively.
540. Wombat - 9/25/2000 10:56:13 AM
It is also not "live."
541. PsychProf - 9/25/2000 10:56:27 AM
Marj...how many "channels" are we talking about here...clearly there is a different approach if money and channel availablity are unlimited. Does your system force any choice?
542. PsychProf - 9/25/2000 11:00:33 AM
Like it or not Americans love soaps. Just try to screw with afternoon tv...
543. marjoribanks - 9/25/2000 11:00:55 AM
Prof I don't know what you mean.
In the UK, for example, there will be around 8 hours of coverage each day with coverage switching from BBC I to BBC II at some time in the day. And most of the day's events will be covered.
544. marjoribanks - 9/25/2000 12:16:23 PM
Decent article on race and sports excellence.
545. PsychProf - 9/25/2000 1:27:51 PM
click on photo 
546. rubberducky - 9/25/2000 1:34:58 PM
yes
yes it is
547. CalGal - 9/25/2000 1:39:03 PM
I don't see why it's ridiculous. It's only the coach's word at this time that it was cold medication. If it turns out to be true, and if it does enhance performance, them's the breaks.
548. PelleNilsson - 9/25/2000 1:44:51 PM
If you get to see Cathy Freeman's win in the 400m look at her expression when she has crossed the line and sits down on the ground for a long while. No sign of happiness, only of relief that's it's all over at last. What tremendous pressure she must have endured!
549. rubberducky - 9/25/2000 1:44:57 PM
if it is true, the medication hampers, not helps, performance - thus ridiculous
550. PelleNilsson - 9/25/2000 1:46:08 PM
It is necessary to announce that a girl from Iceland took the bronze in the women's pole vault.
551. PsychProf - 9/25/2000 1:48:52 PM
It is ridiculous because there is no evidence that the drug enhances performance...it is a sympathico-mimetic substance(acting like adrenalin), and I do not see these gymnasts as being too relaxed.
552. CalGal - 9/25/2000 1:52:06 PM
Ducky,
It's on the list. I don't know why it is, but you only have the coach's word that it hampers performance. But if it's on the list, then either drop it from the list or she gets dumped--because it's on the list.
The IOC, as a general rule, is not prone to overreaction--quite the contrary, as recent events have proven. But I don't see why they should then decide that certain substances aren't really banned, just kinda sorta.
553. rubberducky - 9/25/2000 1:58:34 PM
i agree, Cal, that rules is rules. i think the list should be modified (again, assuming the coach is correct) and, like some Clinton tax hikes, be retroactive...
554. PsychProf - 9/25/2000 1:59:06 PM
I was against it 20 years ago(around) when a USA swimmer lost his medal for ephedrine-type compound/content in his asthma medication, and I remain so now. I don't give a fuck what's on their list...in this case I'm using my head and experience to form my words and opinion.
555. CalGal - 9/25/2000 2:07:29 PM
You can be against it being on the list, but I don't see how you can be against taking the medal away from someone who used the substance. Otherwise, where does it stop?
Ducky,
I could go along with that. However, my guess is that she's not going to be cut much slack. Why? Well, unfairly or not, she has already benefitted from the vault screwup.
556. PelleNilsson - 9/25/2000 2:08:45 PM
How boring this discussion of drugs is.
557. PsychProf - 9/25/2000 2:09:02 PM
Also, is anyone sick to death of all the hugs given everytime somebody does somethin? I can't stand it...
558. theDiva - 9/25/2000 2:11:02 PM
grumpy
559. theDiva - 9/25/2000 2:11:15 PM
man, TWO grumpies.
560. rubberducky - 9/25/2000 2:12:26 PM
well, Pelle, it certainly isn't as interesting as Message # 550
yeah, that's the ticket
everyone just loves Iceland
561. PsychProf - 9/25/2000 2:16:52 PM
Diva...the ripping of that medal does more than make me grumpy...
562. PelleNilsson - 9/25/2000 2:19:18 PM
ducky
Glad to see you've got your priorities right.
563. CalGal - 9/25/2000 2:20:37 PM
Pelle,
Really? Actually, I think the drug discussion is the most interesting thing about this Olympics. For the first time, a lot of the process is out there in the open. First you have all the athletes who dropped out at the last moment, then you have the various charges--more open this time--against those who do suspiciously well. Then you have the fact that the IOC is at least trying to do a good job at testing this year. I think it's far more interesting than most of the events.
564. PsychProf - 9/25/2000 2:30:25 PM
Cal...you and I couldn't be farther apart on this one. Unlike Pelle, I find the drugs more a frustration and/or distraction...but the actual athletic performance, the personal commitment, and resilience of the athletes themsevles is my priority and the reason I watch. How can the "drugs" be more interesting?
565. PsychProf - 9/25/2000 2:33:23 PM
Anyways, I am off to a seminar on the Psychoneuroimmunolgy of Disease...I will think good thoughts and increase my Natural Killer Cell content...
566. PelleNilsson - 9/25/2000 2:34:17 PM
I prefer to discuss sports, not the abuse associated with it. But if you want something to chew on, the American Sports Federation or whatever it is called gets a lot of heat over here in the Hunter case. The results of the tests go to the IAAF but they don't have any jurisdiction in the first phase so they send it on the the national authority. Hunter's tests were taken at the Bislet games in July and the American put the results under wraps maybe not to implicate Marion Jones.
The results today were predictable.
Apart from Freeman in the 400m, Gabriella Szabo won the 5000m, Maria Mutola the 800m, Haile Gebreselassie the 10,000 m, Jonathan Edwards the triple jump, and Michael Johnson the 400m. Lars Riedel did not win the discus but got silver. I don't know if Garcia's win in the 110m hurdles was unexpected because it's an event I don't follow. What do the experts say?
567. theDiva - 9/25/2000 2:34:26 PM
I don't buy for a minute that something like Sudafed is performance enhancing. That's just silly. And it's absurd they took the medal away from that child (who is exactly the same size as Gracie, I notice) for taking cold pills. Criminy.
568. CalGal - 9/25/2000 2:37:07 PM
Unlike Pelle, I find the drugs more a frustration and/or distraction...but the actual athletic performance, the personal commitment, and resilience of the athletes themsevles is my priority and the reason I watch. How can the "drugs" be more interesting?
Well, you really don't know much about the personal commitment and resilience unless you know if they're reasonably clean, do you? And that's what makes drugs interesting.
569. theDiva - 9/25/2000 2:37:19 PM
and I like the hugs. I thought Maurice Green's reactions after he won the gold were very sweet and genuine.
570. PsychProf - 9/25/2000 2:40:38 PM
Ha...Deev...I'm just on the way out. Quite so with Green. I was more refering to the hugs after every gymnastic event.
571. CalGal - 9/25/2000 2:40:46 PM
Pelle,
I have no doubt that the Americans tried to withhold the news of CJ, and I'm delighted that they'll get lots of heat.
About the gynmast: people, you don't know for sure that she was given cold medicine. You also don't really think it's likely that a Romanian athletic doctor wouldn't know exactly what substances are banned or not?
572. labwabbit - 9/25/2000 2:48:54 PM
In light of the age of most of these "little-girls", I imagine that they trained for more than half their lives to finally get to this moment, only to have it all thrown away because of a common cold bug.
I can't imagine how devastating that must be to so young a life and mind. It has to be so damned unjustifiable to someone who has lived for nothing else up to that point.
Can't breath so you're doomed to failure. Take something and you're
doomed to failure. How would you explain that to a kid?
I still maintain, that to draw a line between what's legal or not is a fuzzy, subjective exercise.
573. theDiva - 9/25/2000 2:50:09 PM
Prof
Ah, I see. I haven't been watching the gymnastics.
574. KuligintheHooligan - 9/25/2000 3:56:11 PM
Current medal count:
Country Gold Silver Bronze Total
United States 23 14 21 58
China 21 14 13 48
Russia 14 14 19 47
Australia 12 20 11 43
France 12 13 6 31
575. PelleNilsson - 9/25/2000 4:23:50 PM
I think the US will pick up since we are now into athletics. But at the same time there is less US dominance than there used to be, in particular in the sprint events.
576. CalGal - 9/26/2000 2:25:22 AM
Hunter tested positive 4 times.
Shot put world champion C.J. Hunter failed four separate tests for steroid use this summer, results that international and U.S. track officials knew about but never reported, the IOC's drug chief said.
Prince Alexandre de Merode, chairman of the IOC's medical commission, said Hunter failed three out-of-competition tests in addition to a test conducted after the Bislett Games in Oslo, Norway.
577. CalGal - 9/26/2000 2:36:51 AM
Pelle,
Garcia's win was an upset, and I thought Crear was expected to get second. The Americans were considered possible for 1-2-3 (Johnson, Crear, and Trammel). I have seen almost no coverage of this event--Johnson, who was the winner in 96, has never had the popularity of Devers, and there was almost no coverage here. I do know he had a pulled hamstring and wasn't at his best.
578. SnowOwl - 9/26/2000 2:57:22 AM
It's interesting to see how events are viewed differently depending on where you are. García's win was not regarded as surprising down here. He got silver at the World Championships last year and was seen as a reasonable prospect. What was seen as surprising was Jackson's poor showing.
579. SnowOwl - 9/26/2000 3:01:56 AM
For someone who is trying to avoid the Olympics I seem to be seeing an awful lot of them. They are on TV here from 9.00am until 12 midnight with just 2 short breaks for news during that time. Major events and anything which involves a NZer are shown live, while the less highly favoured events are delayed.
The lengthy broadcasts do tend to lead to a lot of repetition and if I see our damn equestrian once more I swear I will put a boot right through the television.
580. stostosto - 9/26/2000 3:52:18 AM
alistair
Interesting that medals to pop. ratio. I guess the former GDR may have matched or topped that incredible Aussie count. If I am not mistaken they won more medals than the USA at one of the 1980s Games - which, if true, must have been Seoul 1988, since the USA boycotted the 1980 Moscow games (Afghanistan), and the GDR boycotted the 1984 LA games (retaliation).
581. PelleNilsson - 9/26/2000 4:10:42 AM
Gold!
Mikael Ljungberg, wrestling 97 kg, classical style.
582. stostosto - 9/26/2000 4:18:22 AM
Shot put: I read a comment wondering what shot put is for??? The other classic athletics throw disciplines can be associated with some military purpose - javelin, discus, even, I imagine, hammer throw (if that's its name in English). But shot put? In a state of battle, how much good will being able to awkwardly shoot a heavy ball 15 to 20 meters away really do? I mean, sure, it must hurt to have it fall on your head, but you'd think a reasonably dextrous enemy would be able to avoid that. Anyway, if that's the purpose of the exercise, they ought to have some premium on precision as well (that actually goes for the javelin and hammer also).
Perhaps it's a way of confusing your enemy? I imagine I would be confused were I a barbarian foot soldier and my batallion was attacked by an enemy who stopped 15 meters from us, then turned their backs on us and started groaning and spinning around, and then under utmost strain launched a leaden ball into a skybound trajectory, eventually for it to land an impressive 20 meters from the thrower...
I might even be paralysed with bewilderment.
But still...
583. stostosto - 9/26/2000 4:18:48 AM
toys
584. PelleNilsson - 9/26/2000 4:40:27 AM
Shot put
Track-and-field sport in which a spherical weight is thrown, or put, from the shoulder for distance. It derives from the ancient sport of putting the stone.
(Britannica)
So what is "putting the stone". It appears that it was once part of the Scottish Highland games along with other interesting events such as "tossing the weight" and "tossing the caber".
585. PelleNilsson - 9/26/2000 4:44:00 AM
The gentleman from the venerable Scottish clan Marjoribanks may be able to tell us more. 
586. PsychProf - 9/26/2000 7:26:21 AM
LATVIAN HERO...lgors Vihrovs of Latvia holds up his gold medal on the
victory stand after he won the men's floor exercise
program at the 2000 Summer Olympic Games Sunday,
Sept 24, 2000, in Sydney. (AP Photo/Amy Sancetta) 
587. KuligintheHooligan - 9/26/2000 7:34:38 AM
The current medal count:
Country Gold Silver Bronze Total
United States 25 15 22 62
Russia 17 14 20 51
China 22 14 14 50
Australia 12 20 12 44
France 12 13 7 32
Germany 5 11 16 32
588. PsychProf - 9/26/2000 7:38:51 AM
"He also said the drug
Raducan took provided "no
competitive advantage at that
competition."
click on photo 
589. stostosto - 9/26/2000 7:41:23 AM
pelle Message # 585;
Yes, I have always perceived that one to be a closet shot putter.
590. stostosto - 9/26/2000 7:41:56 AM
PP
And he was probably right.
591. PsychProf - 9/26/2000 7:49:50 AM
Those hypocritical son-of-bitches from the IOC wine, dine, and suck at the teat of the world...and then rip a gold for two cold pills that a child takes at the behest of the team doctor. And they indicate, as the lunch on the fruits of their own duplicity, that rules must be obeyed, especially by others. Perhaps those fascist fucks should be introduced to the concept of justice...
592. stostosto - 9/26/2000 7:57:20 AM
PsychProf for IOC President!!! NOW!!!
593. KuligintheHooligan - 9/26/2000 8:21:13 AM
I just heard about the story of the gymnast and the cold medicine this morning on the radio. A couple of questions came to mind:
How do we know how that drug got into her system? Wouldn't we expect that her doctor would say that it got there via cold tablets? And who gave her those cold tablets in the first place, the doctor? Didn't he know that a controlled substance was contained therein?
I don't think the girl was taking performance-enhancing drugs, but you never know who might have been giving them to her unbeknownst to her.
This has nothing to do obviously with whether or not that particular drug should be banned. But if anything else, giving those cold tablets to her (if that is indeed the truth of the matter) was completely stupidity on the part of the doctor, if he was responsible for doing so.
594. KuligintheHooligan - 9/26/2000 8:22:28 AM
"Those hypocritical son-of-bitches from the IOC wine..."
I believe, PP, that the proper grammer is "sons-of-bitches."
595. PelleNilsson - 9/26/2000 8:37:51 AM
Please excuse him. He is agitated.
596. KuligintheHooligan - 9/26/2000 8:41:09 AM
Sorry, pelle, but poor grammer in the Olympics thread is just uncalled for.
597. KuligintheHooligan - 9/26/2000 8:41:56 AM
And having said that, I note that I have spelled "grammar" wrongly twice!
598. theDiva - 9/26/2000 9:34:08 AM
#591
go 'head with your bad self....
599. rubberducky - 9/26/2000 9:45:40 AM
PP:
not that i'm a stickler, but why isn't http://www.olympics.com/ linked in the BS bar?
600. stostosto - 9/26/2000 10:09:26 AM
Centennial!
601. PsychProf - 9/26/2000 11:02:20 AM
Ducky...it is the official site. Take a guess about how I feel about anything "official"...but I will put it there despite my inclinations.
602. PsychProf - 9/26/2000 11:07:00 AM
Vic...this thread is ahead of yer local radio.
603. PsychProf - 9/26/2000 11:21:30 AM
SLIDE WITH YER SPIKES UP
click on photo 
604. PsychProf - 9/26/2000 11:24:19 AM
FIRE'S BURNIN
click on photo 
605. PsychProf - 9/26/2000 11:31:18 AM
BILLYTALK
click on photo 
606. PsychProf - 9/26/2000 11:35:20 AM
VICTORY
click on photo 
607. rubberducky - 9/26/2000 11:43:24 AM
PP
what do ya have against "official" sites?
608. PsychProf - 9/26/2000 11:59:04 AM
Ducky...it seems as if I have let my feelings be known for the IOC, no?
609. rubberducky - 9/26/2000 12:03:19 PM
yes, but i don't see what that has to do with the site - which is really a separately run entity it seems to me.
certainly some non-NBC affiliated pap would be a welcome change, imo
isn't knowing the "official" line worthwhile?
610. PsychProf - 9/26/2000 12:07:06 PM
Ducky...I put it up...what else do you want.
611. labwabbit - 9/26/2000 12:07:13 PM
Message # 591
I can do better than "sons-of-bitches"...but I won't.
Are these the same group of *morons who sell to the highest bidder for IOC [favors]?
*denotes c***sucking, asswiping, see you in Salt Lake mother****ers.
612. rubberducky - 9/26/2000 12:07:37 PM
just talking, PP
will stop now
613. PsychProf - 9/26/2000 12:11:00 PM
Let's change the topic...where do you stand on the drug-medal situation...
614. rubberducky - 9/26/2000 12:15:16 PM
i think it's sad that her medal was stripped, but i can see why they did it. that team doctor shouldn't be allowed back to be involved with anything involving the Olympics (which i read was being considered), imo. it was his fuck up, i just hate to see that poor girl suffer for it.
615. labwabbit - 9/26/2000 12:19:44 PM
Message # 613
I prefer the drugs.
I mean gold, or silver-bronze, for that matter, can't stop your nose from running.
616. rubberducky - 9/26/2000 12:21:12 PM
gold/silver is easier to spend, however, lab
617. labwabbit - 9/26/2000 12:24:12 PM
rd
gold/silver is easier to spend, however, lab .... on drugs?
618. rubberducky - 9/26/2000 12:29:14 PM
gold/silver is easier to spend than drugs
it's why i'd prefer them
sorry i was vague - i just assumed your telepathy was fully matured
619. KuligintheHooligan - 9/26/2000 12:37:50 PM
"Vic...this thread is ahead of yer local radio."
PP, there are a lot of things ahead of our local radio here!
I agree with rubberducky on the doctor and cold medicine issue, it is his fault (assuming the story he tells us is indeed true). A real bonehead move by him.
620. labwabbit - 9/26/2000 12:42:24 PM
rd
I knew you were going to say that.
621. PsychProf - 9/26/2000 4:02:06 PM
MAYBE IOC OFFICIALS CAN SELL THE MEDALS AND HAVE A GREAT NIGHT OUT FOR THEMSELVES
click on photo 
622. labwabbit - 9/26/2000 5:04:23 PM
There is no longer so much an Olympic Ideal as Olympic Reality...In 1964, a part-Sioux Indian named Billy Mills collared two of the world's most accomplished distance runners with his final few strides over 10,000 meters on a rain-soaked track in Tokyo and hit the tape with a time 50 seconds faster than he had ever run before in his life.
If something so improbable, so exhilarating, so magical as what happened to Mills were to happen this week...men in white lab coats would be waiting for him at the finish line...Along with his lawyer
Kinda makes you wonder if the "Miracle-On_Ice" hockey team in 1980 wasn't just a team hopped-up on some type of amphetamines?
623. labwabbit - 9/26/2000 5:05:35 PM
PP
As I stated in a post yesterday. What a tragedy for so young and hopeful a mind to have to endure this travesty of "Olympic Reality".
624. janjon - 9/26/2000 5:14:35 PM
It, of course, is acceptable to argue about what drugs should be banned. You could also argue about whether a "trace" should lead to medal stripping.
But, if the rules are all out there at the outset, how can anyone argue if they are then enforced? To do otherwise, is to condone an unlevel playing field. That's Unamerican!!!!
625. CalGal - 9/26/2000 5:43:18 PM
Exactly. They didn't take away all her metals; only the one she tested positive for. I still find it hard to believe that the doctor would have fucked up like that. At the same time, I can't see how any drugs would only be in her system that one day unless it was cold medicine.
626. Slackjaw - 9/26/2000 5:45:36 PM
Saw the assertion of CJ Hunter's trainer that the (unnamed) maker of his dietary supplements must also make other banned substances, and that due to their quality control problems, trace amounts made it into CJ's supplements. What a laugh.
627. janjon - 9/26/2000 5:47:37 PM
I too find it incredulous that any team doctor - especially one from a country like Romania which takes its Olympics seriously - would not have checked out with excruciating care any and all medications, even those for little colds, that he or she would dole out to atheletes under his or her care.
If he or she didn't, it is of course quite sad that the young lady is the one to pay the consequences. But, again, whatever they may be the drug rules at the Olympics HAVE to be strictly adhered to - it would be a travesty otherwise.
628. janjon - 9/26/2000 5:48:16 PM
indeed, slackjaw, indeed.
629. janjon - 9/26/2000 5:50:54 PM
on another bent, I must admit that the story about the American diver who came from way back to win on her last dive against the heavily favored Chinese woman was quite intriguing, given her earlier injuries and phobias. I gather she now will go home to have the bones in her foot broken so they can re-set properly. Gawd.
630. Nostradamus - 9/26/2000 5:54:16 PM
I'm with you, PP. Give her back her gold medal. This was an outrageous decision. Poor thing works all her life for one moment in the sun and gets fucked because she had a cold? Bullshit!
Those who say 'Rules are rules' just don't get it. Stupid rules should be repealed retroactively. Period.
631. CalGal - 9/26/2000 5:54:55 PM
Yeah, the CJ Hunter story is what keeps the US from being too smug. They aren't even completely clean in swimming, much less track and field.
The diver's story is one of the best of the Games. Here's someone who wasn't the best in the field, but was in the top 5, realized she had a chance if she held it together, and did so. You'd think the mindfucking alone would cause her to fold. And then you discover that she's someone who takes 20 minutes to climb the platform stairs in a special shoe, all because she broke her foot and didn't want to fix it until after the Olympics.
There's a tough one. One of the best victories so far.
632. janjon - 9/26/2000 5:59:15 PM
And, she'll make a pot of gold out of selling her story to the Movie of the Week people.
Unless the US Olympic Assn (or whatever the body that "rules" things here is named) already owns the rights.
633. Slackjaw - 9/26/2000 6:13:57 PM
Surely this has been said many times upthread, but NBC's coverage bites. Who wants 5 minutes of water polo followed by 8 minutes of volleyball, back to the water polo (followed by yet another uninspired half of basketball by the US men), when continuous buildup and anticipation is the essence of sports excitement?
Hate what they're doing to sport. Don't care what the focus groups said.
634. janjon - 9/26/2000 6:17:04 PM
The major problem remains that unless you consciously close your ears or eyes, almost everyone knows who won what (well, at least in the events that are likely to be blessed by NBC) hours before it gets televised.
Where are the next Olympics being held, anyway. Oh yeah - Salt Lake City. Now, lets see what kind of responsible journalism we get about THOSE games.
635. CalGal - 9/26/2000 6:47:39 PM
Slack,
Well, the focus groups were wrong; the coverage is garnering the worst ratings in over 30 years.
There was a Bill Carter piece on it; I see if I can dig it up.
636. labwabbit - 9/26/2000 6:49:49 PM
Yeah, there once was a time when I seen the olympics as the height of human achievement and personal endeavor. There was a time when awe and wonder of the human capability to extend the limits of personal expectation and fortitude, joined the peoples of the world, as one, if only for a moment. Now there resides only the indelible suspicion of better living through chemistry.
637. CalGal - 9/26/2000 6:53:40 PM
It depends. Not much chance of doping in diving or gymnastics (present controversy being a wild exception). Softball, basketball, most of the team sports don't seem to have much trouble with it--although I'm sure some sort of endurance drugs are taken.
Biking has huge problems with it, as does track & field, swimming--even rowwing, I think.
638. janjon - 9/26/2000 7:06:10 PM
With modern detection techniques as sophisticated as they are, virtually all drug violations can now be detected and, ergo, this should indeed virtually eliminate them. Assuming that one agrees that the current Olympic drug standards are fair and appropriate, all that needs be done is to have them rigorously and consistently applied.
That will take care of the cheating on the performer side.
No way they will ever be able to stop the cheating on the organizers' side (as in selection of host cities). What a huge sham all that is.
New York City is going to push for the games in 2012. If I were the Olympics I would fall all over myself to see that happen. Talk about media and ratings. We'll probably pay what we have to, too.
639. CalGal - 9/26/2000 7:21:12 PM
Well, the problem is that they don't have tests for all the drugs--although they are near on the growth drug that has everyone fussed.
The other problem is that testing clean at an event isn't enough. What they need to do is start instituting frequent and random tests.
640. labwabbit - 9/26/2000 7:24:55 PM
That will take care of the cheating on the performer side.
Chemistry will win.
641. CalGal - 9/27/2000 2:13:32 AM
Wow, the diving competitions have been very exciting, haven't they?
642. PsychProf - 9/27/2000 7:35:55 AM
SAGA
click on photo 
643. PelleNilsson - 9/27/2000 7:58:44 AM
I missed this morning's (my time) events because of meetings. Some people have a warped sense of priorities.
644. PsychProf - 9/27/2000 9:38:23 AM
Sorry Pelle...
THIS WILL TEACHEM TO SLIDE WITH THEIR SPIKES HIGH
click on photo 
645. KuligintheHooligan - 9/27/2000 11:13:05 AM
Major MAJOR victory in baseball for the Americans! Way to go! I am really psyched that we beat the Cubans, and so handily.
646. KuligintheHooligan - 9/27/2000 4:23:44 PM
Current medal count:
Country Gold Silver Bronze Total
United States 29 15 25 69
Russia 18 16 21 55
China 22 14 15 51
Australia 13 21 12 46
Germany 8 11 17 36
647. labwabbit - 9/27/2000 4:31:06 PM
Message # 644
Y-E-SSSSSS!!!!
648. knotafrayed - 9/27/2000 8:43:49 PM
Good show for sure! And since Frank deFord hasn't come up with a replacement chant --- let's go for now with ...
649. SnowOwl - 9/27/2000 9:28:23 PM
Controversy in the first woman's 20 km walk to be held at the Olympics. The leader, an Australian, was disqualified less than 150 metres from the end of the race.
650. Nostradamus - 9/27/2000 9:32:00 PM
That's the stupidest sport of them all. What's next? Swimming with a 10kg cement block tied to your waist? Blindfolded gymnastics?
651. SnowOwl - 9/27/2000 9:33:36 PM
Synchronised drowning, I hope.
652. Nostradamus - 9/27/2000 9:37:44 PM
Yeah, synchro is pretty bad, but Canadians used to dominate the event so I'm a little biased. Still, given a choice, I'd watch synchro anyday. Now, if they were on all 4s, it might be interesting ... but that goofy looking hip rotation and everybody seeing how much cheating they can get away with just makes the whole event a waste of time.
653. Nostradamus - 9/27/2000 9:39:37 PM
What they need is some kind of lightweight portable monitor in the shoe that can tell (by pressure, presumably) whether the shoe is touching the ground. That way, the cheating would be abolished and the results might actually mean something (although still not a whole lot).
654. CalGal - 9/27/2000 11:57:20 PM
Synchronized swimming is an amazing sport. Five times more difficult than gymnastics, and a hell of a lot less forgiving.
Man, that is a serious bummer about Gail Devers.
655. CalGal - 9/28/2000 1:03:41 AM
Holy shit; Karellin got beat!
656. CalGal - 9/28/2000 1:46:59 AM
NBC's Latest Games: Low Olympic Ratings Don't Count
Having shelled out a record $705 million for the U.S. rights to the Games, NBC has a huge investment to protect, which is one of the reasons it decided to have rankings for the broadcast withheld until viewing levels are at a peak. But through Monday night, prime-time ratings for these Games are off 34 percent compared with Atlanta in 1996, off 15 percent compared with Barcelona in '92 and 10 percent compared with Seoul in '88.
The 7-7:30 p.m. portion of each night's telecast has been about 40 percent lower rated than the rest of the night. So, starting last Friday, Nielsen stopped reporting numbers for the 7 p.m. half-hour. By removing those first 30 minutes, NBC is able to report nightly averages about 1.5 million viewers stronger than they would be otherwise.
657. CalGal - 9/28/2000 2:15:02 AM
Well, in my continuing series of random comments:
Saudi Arabia got a silver medal!!!
And not in some also-ran sport like kayaking or walking or dart throwing, either. No, this long-legged dude damn near beat Angelo Taylor in the 400 hurdles! Lost just by .03 seconds. Yay, Hadi Souan Somayli! I can't believe NBC didn't mention it; that's a pretty big deal.
This will sound odd, and I don't mean to be racist--but is it my imagination or are there more white folks in the sprints these days? I remember when all the finalists up to the 400 were almost exclusively black. This year I've seen at least two, possibly three white medalists in the shorter events.
658. Stumbo - 9/28/2000 2:29:42 AM
The revanchiste medal count:
Country G S B Total
ex-USSR 28 26 48 102
USA 29 15 25 69
China 22 14 15 51
Australia 13 21 12 46
Germany 8 11 17 36
659. PelleNilsson - 9/28/2000 4:24:32 AM
That's interesting, Stumbo. But of course this ex-USSR has many more participants than the real USSR had.
660. PelleNilsson - 9/28/2000 4:28:22 AM
CalGal
I've also noted more white skin in the sprints, and, as I remarked earlier, less American dominance.
Another remarkable thing took place in the women's 400m hurdles, which was won by Irina Privalova. She was world-class 100m and 200m with championship medals. She switched to hurdles this year.
661. CalGal - 9/28/2000 4:57:00 AM
Yes, I heard them mention that--I hadn't really read up on it yet.
It was actually a pretty good evening of viewing. They showed all of the amazing Greco Roman upset. The finals were all close, and because there were no "stars" there were a lot less sobstories.
I think you are right about Americans, although we've never been as overwhelmingly dominant as we are in swimming, for example. However, if you determined how many of the medalist were trained in America, it would still be a pretty big number.
The increased number of whites means that Europeans are picking up speed. I haven't heard any rumors of drugs yet, either.
662. PelleNilsson - 9/28/2000 5:03:44 AM
The severely sight-impaired Marla Runyan (US) gained a place in the 1500m finals,where, lacking a kick finish, she will not do well. She was interviewed by a Swedish reporter after the race. Quite charming girl; not so self-absorbed as many other athletes.
The 200m finals start now.
663. CalGal - 9/28/2000 5:09:07 AM
Marla Runyan is legally blind. I think she does have a kick finish, actually. What she doesn't do well in is assessing where people are.
Is she the only one who made it?
I remember when she made the Olympic team, and everyone was flipping out and the reporter comes up and asks her how she feels about being the first disabled woman on an Olympics team. She said, "To hell with my eyes, I'm worried about my damn legs!" She is continually suffering from one leg injury or another.
664. PelleNilsson - 9/28/2000 5:10:43 AM
And now it's decided. I'll not reveal the result except to say that a girl from Sri Lanka took the bronze which is nice.
US leads Norway 1-0 after six minutes in the first half of the women's soccer final.
665. SnowOwl - 9/28/2000 5:13:17 AM
I'm a bit puzzled about the wheelchair races. Is this a move to integrate paralympics with the ordinary olympics or have they always been part of it and I've just never noticed.
666. CalGal - 9/28/2000 5:21:42 AM
Oooooh, the post of the beast.
I think they introduced the wheelchair events in 84? I believe that they are actual Olympic events because they aren't the same event (unlike the 100 or 200 meter events, where they run the same course but have different entry requirements).
667. SnowOwl - 9/28/2000 5:25:17 AM
Oh my, wait until you see the 200 metres final!!!
668. CalGal - 9/28/2000 5:26:04 AM
ARRRRGGGGHHHHHH.
It's unfair.
669. SnowOwl - 9/28/2000 5:29:17 AM
I wish I could tell you but you have to see it.
670. SnowOwl - 9/28/2000 5:31:38 AM
The long jump final is fairly exciting too.
671. PsychProf - 9/28/2000 7:30:56 AM
672. PsychProf - 9/28/2000 7:35:14 AM
THEY DID IT NORWAY
click on photo 
673. rubberducky - 9/28/2000 11:04:42 AM
just how much are these medals worth?
[Rachael] Taylor, second with Kate Slatter in last Saturday's women's coxless pairs, left her medal in the back of a taxi after a night on the town, the Australian Olympic Committee said.
674. labwabbit - 9/28/2000 1:25:56 PM
#671
Haha.
Is Viagra on the list of acceptable chemicals?
I've tried-out for those events several-times. Just as I think I can clear the bar...someone raises it.
675. Ronski - 9/28/2000 3:14:06 PM
Speaking of Karelin, I thought it quite something that he lost, of course, but also that the officials almost missed the mistake that gave Gardner the win. And also, that though the Russian is only four years older than the American, that he was visibly panting during the match, which perhaps explains why he lost his concentration and relaxed his grip, losing that point.
676. KuligintheHooligan - 9/28/2000 5:10:46 PM
The current medal count:
Country Gold Silver Bronze Total
United States 32 18 26 76
Russia 19 18 21 58
China 26 15 15 56
Australia 15 22 14 51
Germany 9 12 20 41
677. CalGal - 9/28/2000 5:12:54 PM
Saudi Arabia 0 1 0 1
678. KuligintheHooligan - 9/28/2000 5:14:26 PM
CalGal, are you subtly suggesting that I not post these medal count posts??
Hmmphh!
679. OhioSTOPAS - 9/28/2000 5:15:14 PM
Ohio 0 0 0 0
680. CalGal - 9/28/2000 5:17:12 PM
No, actually, I wasn't. Although I don't generally approve of medal counts. I am just ridiculously thrilled with the Saudis getting their first medal. I hope he wasn't on steroids.
681. KuligintheHooligan - 9/28/2000 5:18:21 PM
Country with the most medals won so far, but none gold:
Brazil 0 4 3 7
682. KuligintheHooligan - 9/28/2000 5:18:58 PM
Seriously, you are thrilled about the Saudis? Why so?
683. CalGal - 9/28/2000 5:20:51 PM
Oh, the home team, I suppose. No big deal; it just was fun to see the flag again. And I'm miffed because there wasn't any fuss at all. He didn't look like he was on steroids, either. Very long and leggy.
684. KuligintheHooligan - 9/28/2000 5:23:23 PM
CalGal, there must be something about you that I don't know. Saudi Arabia is your "home team." I had no idea.
I have a student here that spent several years in Cuba and is a big fan of the country. When it came time for the baseball games, we had a major competition on our hands. The fact that the Americans won so handily has been an enormous source of joy for me!
Now if we can only pull some upsets in boxing, although it doesn't look too promising.
685. CalGal - 9/28/2000 6:15:24 PM
I lived in Saudi Arabia from 1968-1977.
686. CalGal - 9/29/2000 1:17:49 AM
I must say that every so often they hype someone who deserves it. NBC just did a brief after the semi-final interview with Marla Runyan, and she was articulate, happy, talked about her strategy and lack of experience, expressed the hope that Suzy medals, and my LORD this woman had just spent the last 10 minutes by herself, waiting for the next heat to finish so she could ask someone what the time of the sixth finisher was. And here she is chatting away.
She has been stumbling all over the Olympics, apparently, having to go back twice to the buffet to try and get the right green stuff (broccoli instead of green beans), fumbling to click the right numbers on the cell phone, and bumping into things. Is it not possible that someone could be there with her to help her out?
And yet look how well she's doing.
Really, she seems a terrific person. She won't medal, but I sure hope the crowd gives her a huge ovation.
687. PelleNilsson - 9/29/2000 3:00:23 AM
Team handball: Sweden demolished Spain 32-25 in the semi-final and will meet Russia in the final tomorrow.
688. CalGal - 9/29/2000 3:04:36 AM
Pelle,
I just read in Sports Illustrated that the second place winner in the women's 100 meters wouldn't have done better than 7th in the last three Olympics. The winning time in the men's 200 is the worst time since 1976. (although it was a kick seeing the Greek win)
We've been talking about how many white people are getting medals--it seems they are getting medals in part because the times are so slow?
It wasn't covered anywhere in the press other than on TV (at least around here) but the one American runner technically falsestarted, and rocked back because he expected the second gun to go off. That's why he did so poorly.
689. CalGal - 9/29/2000 3:14:23 AM
Snow,
The long jump appears to have been one of the most exciting in history. Although I don't know if it could beat the joyful surprise of Lewis winning four years ago.
Unfortunately, they just showed the jumps one after another, no sense of drama. Very annoying.
690. CalGal - 9/29/2000 3:15:17 AM
Weird situation between US Diving Coach and David Pichler, Synchronized Diver
Ron O'Brien, the technical director of U.S. Diving, had a confrontation with Steven Guiffre, Pichler's companion.
Pichler and O'Brien, an eight-time Olympic coach, have been at odds for five years. Pichler left the now-retired coach's rigorous training program in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., in September 1995.
During the women's synchronized 10-meter platform competition Thursday, O'Brien and Guiffre exchanged words in the spectator seats. Pichler was preparing to compete in the men's 3-meter synchronized contest that followed at Sydney International Aquatic Center.
O'Brien voluntarily left his seat in the spectator section after Guiffre pointed out to a venue security officer that O'Brien lacked a ticket for that area, according to U.S. Diving spokesman Seth Pederson.
O'Brien said he initially moved to a seat away from Guiffre, who followed the coach and continued talking to him. O'Brien said he asked Guiffre to leave him alone.
"Steven came back with a security guard and said, 'This man is abusing me,'" O'Brien said.
Pichler told a different story after finishing fourth with teammate Troy Dumais. He claimed O'Brien was thrown out of the venue, but security did not remove either man, according to Pederson.
"Ron was teasing Steven in the stands and witnesses heard," Pichler said. "He has continued to harass me to this day."
But the really interesting thing, of course, is: companion?
We have at least one openly gay athlete at the Olympics!
691. SnowOwl - 9/29/2000 3:33:30 AM
Cal
The long jump really was something. For all my professed disdain for the Olympics I watched that event from beginning to end, except that I had to leave the room when the Cuban guy had his last jump. The Australian jumper has a NZ connection - his father is a NZer, and judging by his last name (Taurima I think it was) I presume he is part Maori.
The NZ performance overall has been fairly abysmal and there is a great deal of soul-searching and beating of breasts going on here.
692. CalGal - 9/29/2000 3:45:38 AM
Yes, he is Maori. Did you hear what he said, though? From Sports Illustrated:
Plus there was an undercurrent. Remember it was Taurima who said in August that he didn't expect the "darks" to do well jumping in the chilly Sydney spring. It was an idiotic comment, made more reprehensible by the fact that Taurima is Maorian, an ethnic minority in New Zealand. Taurima was referring largely to Americans, who bombed, but Pedroso, of course, is also "dark."
And the nicest quote of the evening, said about Konstantinos Kenteris of Greece, the surprise 200 winner:
"That's what the Olympics are about: the guy nobody counts on having the race of his life," said Boldon, who won a silver medal in the 100 on Saturday. "He did, and I'm happy for him." (NY Times)
693. SnowOwl - 9/29/2000 3:50:18 AM
Stupid comment by Taurima. He was born in Australia, maybe that explains it.
Nice comment by Boldon. It's always a thrill to see someone who is not even considered to be in contention winning. And Kenteris seemed to come out of nowhere, it was great to see.
694. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/29/2000 3:51:23 AM
"Maorian"?
695. CalGal - 9/29/2000 3:54:30 AM
Snow,
When you consider that Boldon had every expectation of winning the event and that this quote was almost directly afterwards, it makes it even nicer. Of course, right before that, he went to go check with the starter on the American's false start, to ask what went wrong. All round nice guy, it seems.
Irv,
Is it "Maori"? I did copy it straight from the Times, so it was their mistake.
696. SnowOwl - 9/29/2000 3:55:19 AM
Something like Indonesianian I think.
697. PsychProf - 9/29/2000 7:24:07 AM
This post made my early morning rise worth it...Message # 686...who wants a breakfast brew, it's friday of a tough week for the ole PP.
698. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/29/2000 7:49:42 AM
Cal:
I had assumed it was their mistake. It's the kind of mistake whch stands out to a linguist and ethnologist like me.
699. PsychProf - 9/29/2000 9:43:50 AM
"ALMOST DAVID"
click on photo 
700. labwabbit - 9/29/2000 11:59:15 AM
#699
Room service serving humble-pie for breakfast?
701. PelleNilsson - 9/30/2000 12:47:51 PM
We had hopes for two golds to today but they were transformed to silver (team handball, lost to Russia) and bronze (women's high jump).
I hear that Denmark's handball ladies will meet Hungary in the final tomorrows. Go Denmark!
You probably know it: Marion Jones dream suffered another loss today.
702. CalGal - 9/30/2000 12:52:06 PM
I just read in Sports Illustrated about the handball team that has a wife on one country playing against her wife on the other?
703. PelleNilsson - 9/30/2000 1:12:19 PM
That sounds a a very complex relationship. "A wife on one country"? "Her wife"?
704. CalGal - 9/30/2000 1:16:53 PM
Yeah, they were both married to each other. Andersen and some name that began with an H? I read it in the print magazine yesterday, not online. I remember thinking it was pretty goofy. Hang on, let me see if I can find it.
705. PelleNilsson - 9/30/2000 1:29:46 PM
It gets more and more intriguing. They were both married to each other?
706. CalGal - 9/30/2000 1:34:43 PM
Yeah, but I can't find the article on the site, and now I'm worried that I hallucinated it. But I just mentioned it to Spawn and he said no, he remembered when we were sitting in the doctor's office (for eternity) that I was laughing about it, and showed it to both him and his dad. Now I'm going to hunt it down. Or where's Sto?
707. CalGal - 9/30/2000 1:38:02 PM
Oh, good. It was down in my car. "In Love and War"--team handball stars Camilla Andersen and Mia Hundvin are the first spouses ever to oppose each other in the Games".
Andersen is from Denmark, Mia Hundvin is from Norway. It has been a huge story over there, apparently.
In fact, I'm surprised that JackV, Cartman, and Ace haven't picked up on the whole lesbian handball angle. Given that Hundvin was picked by a Norwegian magazein last year as the country's sexiest woman, it's closer to their fantasies than most.
708. PelleNilsson - 9/30/2000 2:00:40 PM
Ah, that explains a lot. But still, you've got to work on that mangled syntax of yours. Regards to Spawn. Does he take an interest in "exotic" sports like athletics (track and field for you)?
709. CalGal - 9/30/2000 2:03:57 PM
Unfortunately, the mangled syntax is not carelessness, it's my brain. If I take the time to pay attention, I don't need to pay attention.
"Exotic" sports? Spawn watches football, baseball, and WWF. He follows the Olympics in much the same way I track Survivor episodes--keeps on top of it for conversational purposes, but no real interest.
710. CalGal - 9/30/2000 2:04:47 PM
You mean it wasn't clear from my first post that they were lesbians? A wife playing against her wife?
711. PelleNilsson - 9/30/2000 2:08:44 PM
A careful parsing of that post revealed the truth. I was joking about "both married to each other".
712. CalGal - 9/30/2000 2:12:32 PM
Oh, "on one country". Duh. From. Sorry.
Hey, Psychprof--if you want the posting rate to increase, link to this conversation with the title "Lesbian Babes and Handball in the Olympics."
713. PsychProf - 9/30/2000 4:33:50 PM
The USA Men's Basketball team, clearly outhustled and outclassed by the Lithuanians, demonstrated a new level of poor sportsmanship after the game. Vince Carter almost choked before he would acknowledge the skill of the other team, and kept remarking about the score and its sole index of importance. USA may win the Gold, but the team is a clear loser in the competitions. They will come home to a deserved sound of hands clapping in silence.
714. CalGal - 9/30/2000 4:35:51 PM
But the good news is that the pros playing in the Olympics has set the standard for world basketball--and after only 8 years, the world is responding.
715. CalGal - 9/30/2000 4:59:39 PM
You know, I've never seen rhythm gymnastics before. I don't see what the hell it's doing in the Olympics, but it is very cool to watch and certainly not easy.
716. PsychProf - 9/30/2000 5:41:33 PM
FURTHER PROOF THAT THE FUCKING IOC FIDDLES AROUND
717. stostosto - 9/30/2000 6:43:57 PM
Mia Hundvin 
Camilla Andersen
They live very nearby my place, and my son has seen Camilla in our local mall. (Isn't that something!)
Isn't Mia just ravishing, btw. No accident she was voted sexies woman in Norway. Camilla is one lucky man.. er, woman.
718. stostosto - 9/30/2000 6:48:03 PM
I am getting up early tomorrow to watch the Danish handball women in the final against Hungary. (7.20 Danish time - around midnigth east USA, I think. I recommend it to anyone. A splendid time is guaranteed for all! Though I wouldn't be surprised if the US networks have other priorities. Tough luck for you American guys, if that's the case.
719. CalGal - 9/30/2000 6:49:59 PM
Mia's kind of like the Anne Heche of Norway, from what I understand. Camilla's previous lover was the best player on the Danish squad in 96--Anja Anderson?
Here's the pics off her website: 
720. stostosto - 9/30/2000 6:57:25 PM
Yes, Cal -- do you have that information from the Sports Illustrated article?
Anja Andersen is considered by many to have been the best woman player in the world of her generation. Perhaps ever. She was fantastically innovative in her play and introduced several details to the game that have been picked up by other world class players, also male.
She also had a bad, bad temper as a player. During her career she was at odds with each and every coach she had, often resulting in exclusions; she was also a veritable John McEnroe on the court. A winner's mentality if there ever was one -- and then some.
721. stostosto - 9/30/2000 6:58:07 PM
Cal:
Who is Anne Heche?
722. CalGal - 9/30/2000 7:07:04 PM
Yes, that's where I got the info.
Anne Heche is Ellen DeGeneres' ex-girlfriend. (they just broke up)
Ellen was famous for coming out, here in the US. It made all the papers, perhaps you saw it. At the same time, Anne Heche, who was an up and coming actress and a straight one at that, became her girlfriend. They were quite the glamour couple for a while.
723. EricCartman - 9/30/2000 7:29:44 PM
Ah....hot Scandiwegian lesbo handball players. Sounds like a plotline from one o' them Skinemax "After Hours" flicks, usually starring Shannon Tweed, Lorissa McComas, Sage Kirkpatrick, or some heart-palpitating combo thereof.
Well, I don't know from handball, except that in America it's usually played by prisoners and inner-city youth, but if NBC has any heartwarming locker-room scenes featuring this duo, let's see 'em.
NBC Olympic Coverage -- I Just Wanna Watch
Otherwise, I'm holding out for my original demand wrt the ridiculous "sport" of synchronized swimming -- Midgets. In a wading pool (or short doughboy). Wearing Converse sneakers (for those precious upside-down moments). These are non-negotiable.
724. stostosto - 9/30/2000 7:36:34 PM
Cartman:
I think the question is rather why most sports are so appallingly un-synchronised. I'd like to see some synchronised boxing, for example. It's very seldom two guys knock each other out at the same time.
Cal:
Who is Ellen DeGeneres?
725. CalGal - 9/30/2000 7:40:29 PM
Sto,
Oh.
Hmm.
Never mind. But please accept my apologies for making a pop culture reference, and believe that I never would have done so had I not truly believed that it was fairly well know.
726. stostosto - 9/30/2000 8:00:12 PM
Cal
Please believe me when I say I don't mind pop culture references. Not at all. What do you take me for? Some Eurocentric elitist snob?
No, I honestly just don't know those women, and I suspect they are much more reported upon in the US than here.
It's funny. Before I started my Fray/Mote life, I was somehow under the impression that American pop culture equalled our pop culture. But I am thrown time and again by references to American pop cultural icons by you and others here.
Or, I am just out of the loop. (Not unthinkable).
727. EricCartman - 9/30/2000 8:06:17 PM
Sto3:
I think the question is rather why most sports are so appallingly un-synchronised.
Um, you'll never find me asking that question, because the answer is pretty darned obvious -- sports are supposed to be competitive. You're supposed to physically demonstrate what a wussy girly-man your opponent is, and do it with finesse, grace, panache, and several other French words.
This kinda-sorta reminds me of an appalling op-ed piece I read other day, insisting that since there aren't enough medals to go around, the Olympics need more medals, to recognize all the talented athletes. I mean. I swear, I wanted to bitch-slap the newspaper, it was so stupid.
Competition needs points, not partisan judges, all with their own nationalist pride agenda, applying arbitrary values to arcanely weighted difficulty coefficients. Points don't lie, folks, and any "sport" not primarily predicated on points is just some cultural variant of ballroom dancing. Except for gymnastics, but that has such a sordid rep these days.
You know whose fault all this nonsense is, don't you? AYSO. That's right, American youth soccer organizations -- where everyone's a winner, no matter how terrible they might actually be, and excellence is secondary to making sure the participants' self-esteem is in working order. But you have to resort to such silliness in a sport where a grand total of four points is considered a high-scoring affair.
I'd like to see some synchronised boxing, for example. It's very seldom two guys knock each other out at the same time.
Yeah, I'd like to see some Synchronized Three Chicks In A Hot Tub, which is why I have a satellite dish.
728. stostosto - 9/30/2000 8:10:08 PM
Cart:
Sports are competitive? Why didn't anyone tell me sooner? Blimey!
729. CalGal - 9/30/2000 8:19:43 PM
Sto,
Ellen DeGeneres Comes Out But this is just one blurb. Throw in the cover of Time, several 20/20 interviews, and one of the biggest fusses in the history of television, and you'll get the idea. It was the first time a TV show starred a gay character, and was the first time that a fairly major star had announced that she was gay. The episode itself--known as "The Puppy Episode" was actually pretty good--Laura Dern played the love interest, and there were little cameos from everyone on the Hollywood A-list.
Her first public girlfriend was Anne Heche, who has starred in Volcano, Wagging the Dog, Seven Days, Six Nights, and the remake of Psycho. Anne Heche had been straight (and I believe after they broke up she returned to men). They were the "in" couple for a while. Anne and Ellen go to Washington
Don't know if you ever read Cellar's book, but he talks about it quite a bit.
730. EricCartman - 9/30/2000 8:20:00 PM
Heh. Well, you know it and I know it, Sto. But these people who want more medals, or to add non-sports like ballroom dancing -- someone needs to tell them.
731. EricCartman - 9/30/2000 8:23:19 PM
Pre Ellen, Anne Heche had a pretty decent lesbo scene with Joan Chen in a cheesy Z-movie called, I believe, Wildside.
Just thought I'd throw that in there. Since I haven't watched the Summer Olympics since Montreal (yes, Montreal, 1976, Bruce Jenner and company, dammit), I now have to turn this into the Carpet Munchers in Cinema Thread. (and I mean that in a good way, believe me)
732. Stumbo - 10/1/2000 12:21:04 AM
Random trivia:
Which 20th-cent. political figure was nicknamed "The Carpet-Muncher" (in his native language), due to a rumored habit of doing that (to actual carpets) when particularly pissed off?
733. EricCartman - 10/1/2000 1:55:31 AM
My guess is either Dag Hammarskjöld or U Thant. Possibly Boutros Boutros-Ghali. It just sounds like something one o' them crazy U.N. bastards would do.
734. Stumbo - 10/1/2000 2:03:43 AM
Hint: this predates the U.N.'s existence (though not by that much).
735. PelleNilsson - 10/1/2000 3:49:14 AM
Congratulations Denmark!
From 16-22 to 30-27! What a match!
736. SnowOwl - 10/1/2000 4:09:26 AM
The closing ceremony hasn't even started yet and recriminations have already begun here for our poor overall performance (worst since 1976). There are threats to withdraw funding from athletes who have not performed up to expectations, followed by accusations of poor coaching and insufficient international competition etc.
737. stostosto - 10/1/2000 5:15:59 AM
Hey, Pelle! My man!
It really was fantastic, wasn't it? I had totally given up on those girls, but in some mysterious way they managed to get back in the match while the Hungarians suddenly crumbled.
Well done, girls!
738. stostosto - 10/1/2000 5:28:53 AM
739. stostosto - 10/1/2000 5:43:19 AM
Thank you Cal for the DeGeneres/Heche update. Unfortunately your links don't give pictures of them which might give me a clue. I don't think I'd know DeGeneres though. That TV show hasn't aired here - at least not in my living room.
Of the movies that you mention for Heche to have starred in, I have only seen Wag the Dog (which was extremely thin). But I don't remember the female character right now. Only de Niro.
740. stostosto - 10/1/2000 5:46:24 AM
Oh, and I haven't read Cellar's book.
Perhaps it's not so much of a sensation to us degenerate Danes this gay stuff... We have gay marriage, we have publicly gay ministers, one of which was invited with his partner to the Queen's official new year's ball, we have had the gay handball women, etc. etc.
Not that gays aren't subject to prejudice. But it's just not such a big deal with the media here, I think.
741. CalGal - 10/1/2000 10:50:53 AM
Sto, 
And congratulations to Denmark!
742. CalGal - 10/1/2000 10:57:33 AM
Snow,
Americans go through that exercise every Winter Olympics--gosh, why even bother funding these people if they're going to do so badly?
I always find that astounding.
I don't know if there will be a fuss this year, but Americans had their worst year in T&F. Marion Jones got about 25% of the medal haul for women.
743. PelleNilsson - 10/1/2000 12:41:38 PM
So, it is all over. Veteran journalists say the games have been very good in terms of organisation and friendliness. I don't have any statistics at hand but Sweden must have had its best games for a long time.
If you see the closing ceremony, look closely at how the virgins in white handle the Olympic flag. Then, mentally replace them with valkyrias and the flag with the Nazi one. I hate those flag rituals.
744. PsychProf - 10/1/2000 2:54:30 PM
click on photo 
745. PelleNilsson - 10/1/2000 3:13:17 PM
I didn't like that barb at Lance Armstrong "losing the time trial". I thought it was a heroic feat to win the bronze after his recent injury.
746. KuligintheHooligan - 10/1/2000 4:39:41 PM
The Final Medal count, top ten countries:
Country Gold Silver Bronze Total
United States 39 25 33 97
Russia 32 28 27 87
China 28 16 15 59
Australia 16 25 17 58
Germany 14 17 26 57
France 13 14 11 38
Italy 14 8 13 35
Cuba 11 11 7 29
Britain 11 10 7 28
Korea 8 9 11 28
747. KuligintheHooligan - 10/1/2000 4:41:06 PM
I find it a fairly incredible feat that Cuba was the eighth best country in terms of total medals.
For you pelle:
Sweden 4 5 3 12
748. stostosto - 10/1/2000 4:44:22 PM
That Opera House remains fabulous. Awesome. There is simply no denying. I say one of the biggest winners of the Sydney Olympics is Jørn Utzon. Make something like that and you are entitled to a certain peace of mind. You have accomplished something worthwhile and lasting. You have contributed beauty.
749. KuligintheHooligan - 10/1/2000 4:48:55 PM
Some other medal stats:
The country with the highest total of medals but no gold:
Brazil 0 6 6 12
The top five African countries:
Ethiopia 4 1 3 8
Kenya 2 3 2 7
South Africa 0 2 3 5
Morocco 0 1 4 5
Nigeria 0 3 0 3
Nigeria by far has the largest population of any African country, but did poorly in comparison to some other African nations.
Overall, 80 countries won at least one medal.
All the gold medals were shared between 51 countries.
750. CalGal - 10/1/2000 6:13:51 PM
Saudi Arabia 0 1 0 0
751. AytchMan - 10/2/2000 1:53:03 AM
Stumbo--
I find it hard to believe that nobody has yet gotten your Teppichfresser trivia. I think that's the correct spelling.
752. labwabbit - 10/2/2000 3:35:09 PM
Well done Prof...
Good interesting thread. A round for the house...on me!
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