This is, obviously, for the smeary gif at the top of the page.
Welcome to the Image Discussion Thread
This thread is a chance for any and everyone who reads and/or participates in theMote to get a say in the look and feel!
You are encouraged to send in a replacement image as soon as you can for consideration.
Requirements for consideration:
2. RustlerPike - 5/14/2001 3:45:03 PM
OK, but my creative juices sometimes take a few days to flow in the right direction, and I imagine it's the same for others, so please be patient with us here.
Can we use Flash? Is that a good idea at all?
3. RustlerPike - 5/14/2001 3:50:03 PM
Is it OK to look a gif horse in the mouth?
4. RustlerPike - 5/14/2001 3:51:22 PM
What is the deal with that website you put up to host the images?
Oh, I get it. I think. OK.
5. RustlerPike - 5/14/2001 3:53:12 PM
Are we assuming that the background remains white and all the other colors on the basic Mote page interface remain as they are (the butterscotch bar, the red and gray arrows etc.)?
6. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/14/2001 4:07:03 PM
Why was this place so named?
...and is this the proper definition of the word:
A very small particle; a speck?
7. JudithAtHome - 5/14/2001 4:12:33 PM
Wiz:
When we first started out, this place was tied to that magazine called The Suns Eye...we were The Mote in the Suns Eye or some such thing.
I always think of motes dancing in shafts of sunlight...like you see on sleepy afternoons while laying in a hammock halfway dozing and your eyelids almost shut...like stardust only from sunlight.
8. CalGal - 5/14/2001 9:51:27 PM
I got some gifs from Wabbit for perusal:
This is, obviously, for the smeary gif at the top of the page.
9. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/14/2001 10:12:59 PM
Thanks Judith -- I had some fun with your pov . . . 
. 
10. Ms. No - 5/15/2001 12:07:36 AM
CG,
WHAT???? Has wabbit been holding out on us? Did this come with the new decoder ring? Did I miss a meeting? I'm fond of #1 and #3.
WoW,
Very cool, Wiz!!! I love the top image.
11. Ms. No - 5/15/2001 12:08:44 AM
It looks pretty good with the butter bar too.
12. JJBiener - 5/15/2001 12:11:42 AM
Wiz - I like the name of this place because a mote in one's eye tends to be far more irritating than its actual importance would seem to indicate. I think that describes a lot of the people who post here.
(G)
13. stostosto - 5/15/2001 4:32:00 AM
Hey, what's the deal with this thread? What GIFs?
14. PelleNilsson - 5/15/2001 5:39:04 AM
sto
Here and onwards.
15. Indiana Jones - 5/15/2001 8:18:21 AM
Mote works on so many levels.
A meeting for discussion and deliberation; esp., a meeting of the people of a village or district, in Anglo-Saxon times, for the discussion and settlement of matters of common interest; -- usually in composition; as, folk-moot.
16. RosettaStone - 5/15/2001 9:19:17 AM
Wizard Wins.
Hire him. He's a professional. Let let him redo everything, but RP's Israeli 1967 tank battle graphics. (That's the war Israel won after bombing the U.S.S. Liberty killing 34 American sailors, wounding 137.)
BTW, whatever happened to the Sun's Eye?
17. rubberducky - 5/15/2001 10:24:25 AM
ok, the site is updated. i'd like to thank everyone who has contributed thus far. feel free to discuss pros and cons of any that you see - or any thoughts that come up as a result of looking at what we have.
18. rubberducky - 5/15/2001 10:25:36 AM
Re: Message # 2, RustlerPike.
OK, but my creative juices sometimes take a few days to flow in the right direction, and I imagine it's the same for others, so please be patient with us here.
we're not in any rush that i know of. we'll allow a few weeks play time and then move on to the big splash image - but that doesn't mean we can't revisit the most current selection if that is warranted.
Can we use Flash? Is that a good idea at all?
since we are talking about making a single image (well, 2 single images) flash isn't something i think we should use. animated images like WoW's will be considered as well, however. i'd prefer if we keep the images in a .jpg or .gif format.
CalGal / AC / wabbit - do you agree or do you think any image format is acceptable?
19. rubberducky - 5/15/2001 10:28:39 AM
Re: Message # 13, stostosto.
GIF's & JPG's are the standard image formats webpages use. most any and all pictures, graphs, porn, charts, etc are in a jpg or (to a lesser extent) a gif format.
20. rubberducky - 5/15/2001 10:30:57 AM
general immunity question:
what is the difference in a .gif and a.jpg (other than the different letters) image? who can tell me why there are two standards?
as a special oh-ah award, which was 'better' and why?
21. Dusty - 5/15/2001 10:45:15 AM
RD
GIF is a format created by Compuserve. It uses a compression technique called LZW, which had been patented by Unisys. there was a minor furor recently when Unisys declared that it wanted to get royalties for the of the compression. I don't recall the result, although GIFs haven't gone away, so maybe it was dropped.
I believe both JPEG and GIF use lossy compression, but I'll let someone who knows more chime in.
22. Dusty - 5/15/2001 10:47:50 AM
I;m not seeing any of the images in the page. Is it just me? I thought it might take a minute to load, but I still don't see anything.
23. stostosto - 5/15/2001 10:47:58 AM
(My #13 was a joke...)
24. Indiana Jones - 5/15/2001 10:50:12 AM
One difference is gifs can be animated and jpgs cannot (pretty sure about that). But jpgs are generally smaller.
25. Stumbo - 5/15/2001 10:51:01 AM
26. rubberducky - 5/15/2001 10:51:59 AM
Dusty:
what do you see? do you see nothing at all or the little transparent box with the little red X in the top left hand corner?
is anyone else having problems seeing the images?
27. Indiana Jones - 5/15/2001 10:53:09 AM
Should have mentioned the photo part that Stumbo's link covers. Think I've seen black-and-white photo gifs before, but think all the color photos I've seen on the Web were jpgs.
28. rubberducky - 5/15/2001 10:53:16 AM
ah, Stumbo, good link
29. rubberducky - 5/15/2001 11:00:03 AM
i see, sto
i thought you asked because you're a GrIFter.
ugh
30. CalGal - 5/15/2001 11:01:22 AM
I think Flash is a very bad idea for something that will be appearing all the time. I like Wiz's logo in concept, but I think (as in, am not sure) it is too much for something that will be appearing all the time. Definitely the moving stuff feels like too much.
31. Dusty - 5/15/2001 11:19:00 AM
I see the red Welcome , followed by text. I see the "Received May 15, 2001" "by" and "Title"
But I don't see any images, and I don't see the box with a red x that normally means an image that cannot be loaded.
I checked the source, and see the images listed.
32. Dusty - 5/15/2001 11:20:19 AM
test 
33. rubberducky - 5/15/2001 11:22:17 AM
do you see this image when you click?
http://scottanton.homestead.com/files/images/logo_blueoutline.gif
34. marjoribanks - 5/15/2001 11:24:39 AM
Whoa, Wiz's logo is fantastic. Contemporary, eye-catching (no pun intended) and colorful. It's got my early vote.
35. Dusty - 5/15/2001 11:28:51 AM
Rd
Blank screen
36. marjoribanks - 5/15/2001 11:30:55 AM
I'd buy it on a t-shirt, by the way. Preferably black.
37. rubberducky - 5/15/2001 11:32:29 AM
what browser are you using, Dusty? is anyone else having problems seeing the images?
38. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/15/2001 11:37:51 AM
Thanks for the kind words above.
The first and larger image is a JPEG and the second is an animated GIF. I wanted to show the different attributes of each format.
I didn't spend much time on these - about 30-40 minutes, but the variations of the idea are unlimited -- except by format. For example, the animated GIF could change every 15 minutes, so as not to be distracting, but the smoother color transitions and detail of the JPEG are more suited to a higher quality, unchanging graphic.
I did an image search on "sundog" and "eyeball," then combined the two images in Photoshop -- played some games with filters and then optimized and animated them.
Theme/Rational: J@H's concept of eye+sun.
39. PsychProf - 5/15/2001 12:17:13 PM
Diferent Gif's for comparison... 
40. PsychProf - 5/15/2001 12:44:41 PM
Duck...I see the image and also like it.
41. seadate - 5/15/2001 1:16:52 PM
Same here, Ducky.
42. rubberducky - 5/15/2001 1:50:03 PM
so, let's hear about what people like/dislike so far & why.
my thoughts:
43. Ms. No - 5/15/2001 1:57:35 PM
I'm fond of Blue Outline and Small Change (got shot with his own 38) as header images.
I like the non-animated Mote Eye as a splash image but not as a recurring header.
44. rubberducky - 5/15/2001 1:58:43 PM
oh, and i updated the page to include PP's 2 pics
45. Ms. No - 5/15/2001 1:59:09 PM
It might also be a good idea to look at these images on a black background since there are info pages where the background is black rather than white.
46. CalGal - 5/15/2001 2:06:17 PM
Stupid question from someone who is in a hurry and can't back up too much--where is the sample page you're talking about? Could someone link it in again?
47. rubberducky - 5/15/2001 2:07:07 PM
up in Related Links, there is a 'Submissions so far...' link
48. CalGal - 5/15/2001 2:09:24 PM
Thanks. Question for Wiz--can you make the non-animated one smaller as a sample? Much smaller--a la the image up in the corner.
49. rubberducky - 5/15/2001 2:13:38 PM
Re: Message # 45, Ms. No.
It might also be a good idea to look at these images on a black background since there are info pages where the background is black rather than white.
i just went throught the links and you are right one of them has the splash page image on a black background, but not the thread header image. so, doing a black background is something i'll try to remember to do when we move onto the big splash image.
50. rubberducky - 5/15/2001 2:14:34 PM
CG:
like this? 
51. PelleNilsson - 5/15/2001 2:22:03 PM
With all due respect for the artist, that one is ugly. Too busy. Too many colours. I like wabbits submissions. On the other hand, I feel that the thread page heading should be derived from the front page heading so maybe we whould look at that one first?
I'm conservative in these matters. I don't like change for its own sake. Can the artists look at improvements on what we have now? A better rendition of the mote for example?
52. marjoribanks - 5/15/2001 2:27:17 PM
I completely disagree with Pelle, unsurprisingly considering the subject matter.
The Wiz logo is super, very hip and contemporary and sets an excellent tone for what this site is. It's what striking design can and should be for the WWW.
Two thumbs up for that one.
53. marjoribanks - 5/15/2001 2:29:12 PM
What exists, for what it's worth, sucks. It is about the least important factor in the site, of course, but if it is being looked at (and it now is) it should be acknowledged that it was fine for the beginning but hopelessly stodgy and sloppy given the comparison with Wiz's bang-up effort.
54. marjoribanks - 5/15/2001 2:31:34 PM
Though the point about the colors may not be totally off-base. I'd like to see a version where the red from the M is touched off on in the T and the E.
55. Erin R. - 5/15/2001 2:37:37 PM
I like that one. Pelle, live a little.
56. CalGal - 5/15/2001 2:44:05 PM
I'm not sure if I like it as something to see every day. I'm also not sure if we need change for change's sake, but I think it's certainly worth discussing. But I have been made aware more than once of how many people who seem to be giving tacit acceptance by not posting on a proposed change are in fact completely unaware of any such proposal and would actively reject it if they were.
Wiz,
Yes, but even smaller.
57. rubberducky - 5/15/2001 3:02:06 PM
On the other hand, I feel that the thread page heading should be derived from the front page heading so maybe we whould look at that one first?
makes sense.
what say the rest of you? start with the splash page image 1st?
58. wabbit - 5/15/2001 4:24:44 PM
I think this contest is a great idea, but please take the four images I sent to Cal out. They were only a quick cleaned-up version of what we already have, a result of Message # 13451 in thread 25 and they were done before the contest started.
59. CalGal - 5/15/2001 4:31:14 PM
Oh, true. The only submission I've seen thus far is Wiz's. I just posted wabbit's stuff here because it seemed to be where we were discussing images.
60. JudithAtHome - 5/15/2001 4:39:05 PM
many people who seem to be giving tacit acceptance by not posting on a proposed change are in fact completely unaware of any such proposal and would actively reject it if they were.
But how would you know if they hadn't posted their opinions?
61. PelleNilsson - 5/15/2001 4:48:09 PM
Look, Judith. CalGal revamped the thread pages, new font and stuff. She invited people to have a look at it at the development site, not once but several times. People who did were generally positive. But when the changes were introduced there were cries of high heaven from those who hadn't bothered to participate in the discussion.
62. JudithAtHome - 5/15/2001 4:51:06 PM
I know that...I almost posted "We should just throw each one on the front page for a day or two each if we want reaction" but instead, I posted what I did and see it wasn't taken in the manner I meant...forget I even mentioned it.
Getting people to be aware of the discussion before it gets to the point of griping was what I was going for.
63. Erin R. - 5/15/2001 4:57:56 PM
I think that's a good idea Judith.
64. JudithAtHome - 5/15/2001 4:59:03 PM
It might entail a lot of extra work, though...
65. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/15/2001 5:04:47 PM
59. CalGal - 5/15/01 9:31:14 PM
Scott reduced those CalGal, I just got here.
Actually, mine wasn't a submission either -- I was doing it to illustrate Judith's idea and prime the pump for Scott.
I think The Mote logo should be even smaller to accommodate all of the hairsplitting around here.
This would be perfect in this size -- we can look down our noses at people who don't know enough HTML to expand the logo and see the significance of its inscrutable perplexity while remaining unobtrusively subtle.
66. JudithAtHome - 5/15/2001 5:07:29 PM
Hahahaha....yes, and if we reduce it to where we can't even see it, there would be no objections, period, because there would be nothing to object
to ....
67. CalGal - 5/15/2001 5:07:59 PM
Then you have the people who complain that the damn place is changing every day, or who think that one of the changes is permanent and gets pissed off when it gets backed out. And then there are the folks who just aren't around the day that the one change they hate is put in, and of course that is the one that is chosen.
To say nothing of the fact that it just isn't very good change management.
So no, I'd rather not put every change in for a while. I would just remember that it isn't a given that we have to change.
68. JudithAtHome - 5/15/2001 5:11:44 PM
Oh hell...it was just a suggestion. I thought you were saying people get upset because they don't know about the change. It was mostly a joke that you put up every single one...I just wanted to point out that it would definitely get their attention.
69. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/15/2001 5:17:33 PM
I'm hip -- you're hip -- we're ALL hip! 
70. Erin R. - 5/15/2001 5:22:55 PM
Who is that?
71. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/15/2001 5:26:25 PM
It's a mindset!
72. RosettaStone - 5/15/2001 5:48:56 PM
The sooner we get rid of the blood-red nailpolish finger the better.
To get someone of Wizard's talents to redesign mote would be a real accomplishment.
He's our Milton Glaser.
73. dusty - 5/15/2001 6:01:54 PM
RD
I can see clearly now, so my earlier problem has something to do with my setup at work. Not worth pursuing, unless someone else notes that they can't see the images.
74. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/15/2001 6:07:54 PM
LOL. Thanks Rosie, but I'll always be a Bozo on this bus.
Besides, I like being beyond the pale with guys like you!
75. JudithAtHome - 5/15/2001 6:11:12 PM
Wiz, you've a long way to go before overtaking the title of Bozo on this or any other bus...
76. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/15/2001 6:16:30 PM
Gee thanks Judith, should I spend more time in the Sex thread? 
77. RustlerPike - 5/16/2001 12:53:03 AM
Wiz, you're great. What graphic software do you use? I asked you once how you did that Bush head exploding gif (was it Bush?) but I don't remember you answering. Trade secret?
(and if so... wanna trade trade secrets?)
78. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/16/2001 9:06:25 AM
RP- Thanks and no, I have no secrets. I probably didn’t sse your question. I mostly use PS6 & ImageReady.
This isn’t the place, so I’ll ‘splain whatever you‘d like in Exploring The Web or Technical Issues. You decide.
79. RosettaStone - 5/16/2001 9:13:41 AM
EXPLORING THE WEB would be the best place to show your stuff, Milton.
80. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/16/2001 10:05:43 AM
Thanks Rose. I’ll explain the head blowing up for RP.
81. rubberducky - 5/16/2001 10:21:24 AM
dusty:
glad to hear that you can see the site now
82. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/16/2001 10:42:07 AM
RD- It doesn’t matter to me. It was just an opportunity to dance my dance and maybe stretch the visual potential a bit.
I like the thoughtfulness of The Mote, but I’ll always chafe at the proprietary bridling of those who presume to know what‘s best for all.
I think graphics are always resented by wordsmiths — they don’t like the power of words being preempted.
That’s why editor’s traditionally hate cartoonists.
83. rubberducky - 5/16/2001 10:46:52 AM
understood, Wiz
i'd like to see what else you can come up with, if you have the time
84. ElliottRW - 5/16/2001 11:17:33 AM
rubberducky -- tried to send you an email a few minutes ago. The attached gif's title (for easy reference!) should be "wordy." Thanks.
85. rubberducky - 5/16/2001 11:27:24 AM
thanks Elliott
this is a cool concept, one that is different. i think this could be a great direction to go.
i'll post it on the website tomorrow
other comments? 
86. CalGal - 5/16/2001 12:25:59 PM
Oooh, neat. It reminds me of one of those coffee cups.
87. Erin R. - 5/16/2001 1:34:41 PM
I like that one.
88. ElliottRW - 5/16/2001 1:40:13 PM
...coffee cups
Exactly. It's not an original idea, just one that I like. As I told ducky, I was hoping that the people with better development tools would be inspired by it.
Oh, and thanks.
89. janjon - 5/16/2001 4:33:54 PM
The Wizard's depiction of MOTE is really nice. (The version that doesn't move, for purposes of this site. The blinking one would be too distracting.)
It might benefit from a bit of tinkering re the colors (the red is a wonderful color and the overall logo might benefit from a bit of its usage on either the T or the E.)
But, as is would be fine too.
Very modern, very hip.
90. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/16/2001 5:51:14 PM
Ta janjon and speaking of tinkering -- How about some eye-popping, heart-thumping minigraphics. . . 
or for the SEX Thread 
91. RosettaStone - 5/16/2001 6:22:27 PM
Good idea. Put that in the sex thread. Scott is talking about mote's latest porn star's odor right now.
92. rubberducky - 5/17/2001 1:39:44 PM
Elliott's pic has been added. i think it would make a cool splash page image.
while people are still, i hope, working on other ideas, let's talk a little bit about not when but if change is needed.
i think the images need a tweaking mostly because sites that don't constantly rework some aspects and show something new tend to get boring to the user. 2 years is long enough of the current motif i think. not that i don't like it now, but a tweak here or there is generally a good thing especially when we are just talking presentation and not code.
does anyone just love what we have now and just do NOT want a change?
93. JudithAtHome - 5/17/2001 1:45:49 PM
I like what we have now but think change is good. Styles in most things change all the time: fashion, music, decor, cars...you can like flare legged pants and bouffant hair styles but eventually, they oughtta change.
94. janjon - 5/17/2001 1:46:21 PM
perhaps it is just familiarity, but what we have now is boring. Its always reminded me a bit of mood music - cotton candy that lingers for but a moment. No bite, no sense of being cool.
95. JudithAtHome - 5/17/2001 1:48:43 PM
I like Elliots submission but think the line "Tom Cruise is gay" ought to be left out...I'm sure it was only a joke but we don't have enough money to be sued by the lad. Though we probably have enough lawyers...
96. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/17/2001 2:26:37 PM
This isn’t a complaint or an appeal for my images (because frankly I don’t want to cater to a committee of sorcerer-apprentices), but the obvious fact is that the concept behind the title of this place isn’t obvious, or even subtle — it’s obscure — especially when it isn’t echoed in any of the graphic elements.
Janjon is right and so is Judith — this place offers up the visual equivalent of graphic gruel. Now that may bruise some egos, but for a bunch of folk who think of themselves as highly discerning, it’s comically ironic.
The purpose of a graphic style is to communicate an attitude and the graphic deportment of this place only conveys stodgy — when it’s anything but.
97. ElliottRW - 5/17/2001 2:28:46 PM
Thanks, Judith, I knew you'd notice. It was indeed a joke.
98. rubberducky - 5/17/2001 2:34:55 PM
WoW:
very good points.
just for grins, what kind of 'attitude' should we try and communicate?
99. CalGal - 5/17/2001 3:10:49 PM
It surely ought to be possible to discuss this without making snide and ostensibly cryptic remarks about "some people".
My own feelings are more along the line of Judith's. I've never been loved the graphic, but I've never disliked it either. I have no objection to a facelift at all. But I do think it is possible for a facelift to be worse, and I'd like to avoid that if possible.
The current scheme is rather macaroni and cheeselike (it's not gruel, no matter how dramatic it sounds). But if I had to serve dinner for thousands and my only two choices were mac n cheese and sushi, I'd go for the mac n cheese.
If we can find the equivalent of roast chicken, rice pilaf, and green beans with almonds, terrific.
100. Ms. No - 5/17/2001 3:17:18 PM
Can I have snow peas instead?
101. CalGal - 5/17/2001 3:24:13 PM
Well, salad is probably safer still, along with a selection of dressings.
102. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/17/2001 5:13:47 PM
RD- I have no idea about what this place should look like and that's probably where the discussion might begin -- attitude, I mean -- visual and otherwise. From there it's easier to determine what visually resonates with the reality.
My logo was based solely on Judith's idea and that's why it was easy to illustrate and why I'm detached from the criticism and praise . . .and may be it's why "some people" identify with the look of the place so strongly and see my analogy as snide rather than as a metaphor to depict the problem.
[FTR, I never said the "gruel" wasn't tasty -- just unappetizing visually.]
Nor am I trying to provoke defensiveness. I merely pointed out the contradictions in style and substance. We may read as erudite, but look very different . . . 
103. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/17/2001 5:45:09 PM
This was the image I wanted to use, but my @HOME server was down. 
104. RosettaStone - 5/17/2001 6:02:00 PM
Just give Wizard the job, and shut down this thread. The worst thing that can happen from all this is that no change occurs. Change is good, especially when you have someone on the inside who wants to help. Other than the logo creator, everyone hates the old logo.
Give him $500 from the $1000 in the kitty and get on with it.
105. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/17/2001 6:24:58 PM
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Rosetta, but NO THANK YOU! I'd be happy to help with a task if needed, but I'm not interested in anything beyond that.
BTW, I do think the information (and the programming of it) throughout the site is thoughtfully conceived and concisely presented. The order and clarity is also brilliant and very economic -- actually, it's faultless, IMO.
106. RosettaStone - 5/17/2001 6:31:28 PM
Well, I can't take all the credit, but will anyway.
Thank you, wisard. And there are a lot of people I would like to thank...
107. JudithAtHome - 5/17/2001 6:32:32 PM
Why not start by spelling their names correctly?
108. RustlerPike - 5/18/2001 3:57:08 AM
Someone mentioned that 'mote' also has an archaic meaning that refers to a village gathering. I wouldn't limit the graphic to something that represents eyes and specks of dust, necessarily. I think we should let our imaginations run amok, unfettered by literalness.
109. PelleNilsson - 5/18/2001 4:26:06 AM
Rustler
This site indicates that that meaning exists.
One may assume that it derives from Scandinavian "möte" = meeting.
110. thoughtful - 5/18/2001 12:57:05 PM
Dusty, what an interesting sense of color. I like the blue outline very much.
111. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/18/2001 1:05:12 PM
I agree Pike — I eagerly await your unfettered ideas and their executions!
112. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/18/2001 1:08:18 PM
“Dusty?” “Blue outline?” What am I missing???
113. JudithAtHome - 5/18/2001 1:10:45 PM
Wiz:
Try the "submissions" site, where all the ideas are collected and displayed. In the butterbar, top right.
114. rubberducky - 5/18/2001 1:18:03 PM
i see someone isn't reading my posts!
heh, just kidding
115. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/18/2001 1:19:11 PM
Thanks J@H — I missed it.
116. thoughtful - 5/18/2001 1:25:30 PM
WoW....re Geek appeal...I had dinner with that man once...he personifies geek to be sure.
117. thoughtful - 5/18/2001 1:25:54 PM
proof, that sometimes the apples do roll very far away from the tree!
118. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/18/2001 2:53:14 PM
thoughtful- As charmless as he is, I would have preferred him to the millionare’s surrogate/dunce we got. The apple we have has a worm in it!
119. PelleNilsson - 5/19/2001 4:25:17 AM
The poster Davenhill in TT:
Quedi, thanks for the link! The Mote's kinda spooky and odd looking
Davenhill is a good fellow I think. Quedi is Sakonige.
121. CalGal - 5/19/2001 10:08:06 PM
I seem to recall a certain trouserpilot having conniptions when PamIAm used an image of his without authorization. He told her to remove it right away. And that was an image that he himself regularly linked in, not one that was specifically requested to be removed from a site because no permission had been given.
Remove it. As far as I'm concerned it is at least grounds for suspension--if only because you're doing it sheerly to be an obnoxious little fuck.
122. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/20/2001 12:19:13 AM
I loved 'em!
123. don s. - 5/20/2001 2:20:49 AM
Sigh.
Oh well. I guess one good conniption deserves another.
124. JJBiener - 5/20/2001 2:29:24 AM
Don - I like #3 and #4 on your site. I am not sure they are appropriate, but I like them anyway.
125. RustlerPike - 5/20/2001 6:26:27 AM
Don - I like #3.
I did this a few months ago, and posted it somewhere. It's not my 'official' entry but it's just something to enter in the meantime, just so I am not forgotten (in Ivrit this is known as lehafgin nokhekhut: making your presence felt, so to speak). 
I like it though. It's happy, somehow.
126. RustlerPike - 5/20/2001 6:27:05 AM
(Hard to tell but it's a hyperlink).
127. CalGal - 5/20/2001 5:48:45 PM
Wiz,
I've been playing with your logo trying to get some colors to work with it, when it occurred to me that you're much better at it than I could ever be. Could you suggest some other colors or patterns to use as backgrounds? If we use your logo I will need to replace the butterscotch bar color, need a color for links (currently red).
I was thinking of using Elliots word wrap in a light color as a background,maybe, for the front page where the thread list is.
128. RosettaStone - 5/20/2001 7:34:34 PM
Don---I like them all, especially #2, since I was born in Typo City.
But everyone knows the fix is in. Wizard should win, but CalCal gets the prize.
But, I can live with it. Anything would be better than that bleeding fingernail of a logo we have know.
129. RosettaStone - 5/20/2001 7:40:02 PM
I know, it's now.
130. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/21/2001 12:31:55 AM
Cal- First, it really isn't my logo. It was a response to Judith's interpretation of the mote concept.
Second, very few people have weighed in on this issue -- what am I missing here? Is it communal apathy or irrelevance? Is it not a majority decision?
Thirdly, a color change is both easy and difficult -- that is, easy to do technically, but because color is a very subjective element, it's hard to reach a consensus.
Why not have people link examples of color schemes they like -- as well as discussing an overall impression they'd like to project. With all the wordsmiths about here, I can't believe it'd be that difficult to express.
There are aspects of the present color scheme that don't engage the viewer. For example, the light yellow of the butter bar on a white background is unobtrusive and sedate (which I assume, it's meant to be), but it's also stodgy and sleep inducing.
If you keep that color for the butter bar, I'd suggest using a typeface with a hint of violet in it. Why? Because violet is the compliment of yellow and it will contrast with the background and enhance the visual interest in a dignified way without being dull.
I give this example to provide a method for discussing the elements of the page. Merely saying: I don't like a certain color, could you put more red in it. without offering a conscious rational, is a waste of everyone's time.
131. CalGal - 5/21/2001 12:57:50 AM
Wiz,
Sigh.
a) Yes, it is "your" logo in that it has your name by it on the submission page. I hadn't noticed you protesting until now.
b) Relatively few people will get involved in this discussion. Consensus is impossible. If you expect it, you haven't been paying much attention.
c) The fact that I am asking you for color suggestions doesn't mean that your logo is going to be used. It doesn't mean there is going to be a change. But since I'm not going to just slap your logo onto the existing page with no other changes, I wanted to move the next step and create a sample to give people something to look at--given that your logo has received positive response.
d) So all I'm asking is for some suggestions on colors.
Is it that horribly complicated?
132. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/21/2001 1:03:05 AM
Here is an abstraction of what you have now.
If you were to keep the page design you now have, you'd use this kind of tool to determine the color scheme in a proportionally accurate way. 
133. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/21/2001 2:45:30 PM
134. janjon - 5/21/2001 5:27:13 PM
Those submissions from DonS were hilarious in the first two instances, make it three, and quite presentable in the fourth. Crisp and mostly modern, without being unduly advant etc.
Still prefer WoW's, however.
135. JudithAtHome - 5/21/2001 5:34:59 PM
janjon....you've got mail.
136. Indiana Jones - 5/21/2001 5:37:46 PM
Second, very few people have weighed in on this issue -- what am I missing here? Is it communal apathy or irrelevance?
Any change to the Mote requires a tremendous amount of effort. Consider me a Philistine, but I'll leave this battle for those who know a bit more about graphic design than I do and conserve my strength for those areas that I both consider important (not to say design isn't) and my opinion is at least of average value.
Is it not a majority decision?
Ha ha. That's a good one.
137. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/21/2001 7:27:09 PM
Thanks janjon.
Here's what I officially propose . . . 
For the following reasons:
1. The new design accommodates the present format so programming changes are kept to a minimum.
2. The color scheme is based on earth and sky tones -- it's sophisticated without being dull or garish.
3. The banner logo is well integrated with the color scheme and the graphic division of elements -- which isn't the case now.
4. It's all I have time for before vacation.
5. You get what you pay for!
6. I suggest Gill Sans Condensed as the appropriate font.
138. arkymalarky - 5/21/2001 8:52:21 PM
I really appreciate the time you've put in, WoW. FWIW, I like #136, but the heading is a bit bright--it kind of swallows the rest of the page.
139. don s. - 5/21/2001 10:07:52 PM
question for Wiz:
Are you suggesting using Gill Sans Condensed for body type on the Web pages themselves?
140. JudithAtHome - 5/21/2001 10:12:20 PM
Looks good, Wiz!
141. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/21/2001 11:40:17 PM
It can all be refined and adjusted Arky -- this was a quick thumbnail. The banner is aprox. the same size as the present one. As far as being too bright and overpowering, I disagree and it maybe a result of the abstraction.
Thanks Judith.
No Don, a serif typeface (in black for easier reading) would be more appropriate and it would contrast nicely.
As far as the The Mote logo goes, I don't really care -- I've been trying to illustrate the only adequate idea provided here hoping it would prime the pump. [Though 'DAS MOTE' provides for some very amusing possiblities.]
I've pleased myself first and I don't expect a consensus.
I should add however, that anything designed by a "committee" will look like it.
142. don s. - 5/22/2001 1:15:11 AM
OK, Wiz. So what did you mean by your item #6 in message #137?
143. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/22/2001 10:41:50 AM
Don- Gill Sans Condensed for the Mint & "Butter Bar" borders.
The rationale is that the Gill Sans Condensed will alow for maximum word capacity (for the small space provided) while relating to the sans serif of The Mote logo above . . . differentiated by color between, for example, "Topics Of Interest" and "Links, etc.."
144. janjon - 5/22/2001 11:03:56 AM
That is a nice look, Wiz. Well worth a serious try. I myself don't see the need for very many "refinements".
145. JudithAtHome - 5/22/2001 11:06:37 AM
I think it has a "cool" look, as in cool medium but still very hot. I like it a lot!
146. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/22/2001 11:14:11 AM
Hey -- a concensu of two -- can I lend you guys any money? [Thanks for the encouragement.]
147. janjon - 5/22/2001 11:18:40 AM
well, it really is an exciting look.
148. don s. - 5/22/2001 11:34:19 AM
I like the Wiz’s design, too. So that’s three. And you know how much weight my vote carries around here.
I like the idea of Gill Sans Condensed for those sections of the page, but it’s impractical for web publishing. The way HTML works, everybody who visits the site would have to have that font installed on his or her machine, and I think that’s unlikely. Best to spec a series of “generic” sans-serif fonts (Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, Sans-serif — it’s how I’ve spec’d these paragraphs), and let the line breaks fall where they may.
Just an FYI.
149. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/22/2001 12:04:24 PM
Don- Thanks and you're right of course wrt Gill Sans -- I was assuming browser prefs allowed for each website to use it's own fonts unless overridden by the browser, but you're obviously more informed than I and I gladly defer to your expertise and advice in any regard here.
150. PelleNilsson - 5/22/2001 12:27:05 PM
We (CalGal) tried sans-serif a while ago. People hated it.
151. marjoribanks - 5/22/2001 12:33:03 PM
I love Wiz's proposal.
Consider it fully endorsed by me. I think it will help attract new people, and will be a more fitting and exciting "wrapper" for the Father of the Motion's own creation.
152. Ms. No - 5/22/2001 12:33:04 PM
Pelle,
I believe that was only so far as the posting pages were concerned as opposed to links and sidebars.
Wiz,
Very cool layout. I like it a lot. Re: colors, isn't that what the color/number charts are for? Even manually tweaked colors correspond to a specific number don't they? Is there a program that calculates the six digit combo of manually created colors or is that something that PS does automatically?
153. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/22/2001 1:07:07 PM
Thanks again for the approvals.
Pelle, a sans serif font offers a more contemporary look/impact while a serif font provides the reader with less eye fatigue in reading. Keep that distinction in mind — don’t use wrench when a hammer is needed.
Ms.No, in image optimization for the web, many options are available in ImageReady/PS. I can tweak and peak any of them for the final version and Don S. seems to be the guy to ask at this point.
I’m not sure who is behind the curtain adjusting the nuts and bolts at The Mote, or the identity of the person(s) with final approval over what is done.
I know it’s a little like herding cats around here, but at some point I’m hoping the Grand PoohBah/PoohBahette will make themself(ves) known to us grunts who aren’t in the know.
154. Ms. No - 5/22/2001 1:16:53 PM
Oh, sorry, I thought you knew already. It's certainly not a trade secret. Alistair is the tech-god who writes the code that makes things run. CalGal has been in charge of programming the the GUI for look and feel. There is no "Final Word" per se about appearance but rather what a consensus of Moties decides.
155. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/22/2001 1:27:18 PM
Thank you Ms. No! Now I understand why Cal was trying to herd me — all the time I thought she was just being compulsively manipulative, resentful and coy.
156. Ms. No - 5/22/2001 1:32:50 PM
I think maybe the two of you have just been talking past one another a bit.
157. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/22/2001 1:42:37 PM
I agree! 
158. Ms. No - 5/22/2001 2:05:35 PM
hahahaha, that sums it up brilliantly!
159. Ms. No - 5/22/2001 2:05:54 PM
good intentions miss the mark
160. arkymalarky - 5/22/2001 7:00:42 PM
I like the idea, too. I like the style, colors, etc, and the sample page WoW posted looks good.
161. alistairconnor - 5/23/2001 3:40:52 AM
I have no visual imagination, but I know good web design when I see it. I like your front page, Wiz, and I look forward to tweaking it around with you and Cal... when we all next happen to have the time...
162. RustlerPike - 5/23/2001 6:18:28 AM
Ahhh, I was going to make an entry meself - but only if the competition is still open. Is it? Didn't someone say something about giving us a few weeks to make our entries?
163. alistairconnor - 5/23/2001 8:16:54 AM
Actually Russ, I rather like your logo in Message # 125
The warm, friendly, naive sun, or the nightmarish circular saw. Take your pick.
164. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 5/23/2001 9:42:23 AM
Thanks arky & Alistair.
I'm certainly in no rush and I look forward to more ideas as well.
I return from vacation June 10th, so enter again and again, RP -- more options = richer results.
165. rubberducky - 5/23/2001 1:01:40 PM
vw has submitted this number which i like: 
the top 'Mote' parts needs another font, but i like the integrated links and header idea very much, it'll be on the submissions site when i get to updating it.
comments?
166. rubberducky - 5/23/2001 1:05:18 PM
Re: Message # 162, RustlerPike.
the 'competition' is still very much on. we are just looking at and talking about what we like so far.
i will note that with the WoW's submission, we've moved on to the splash page image, but that's fine. both are still open for submissions. i don't expect to wrap this thread up until next month anyway.
and i do very much agree with the Wiz in that every submission is worthwhile.
167. RustlerPike - 5/25/2001 3:11:17 AM
rubberduck:
a) OK, I'll ask: what is a splash page? I should know this but I don't. Is it the page you get when you first enter a website?
b) 'next month' is a few days away...
168. rubberducky - 5/25/2001 9:56:28 AM
Re: Message # 167, RustlerPike.
sorry for being unclear, RP.
a) the splash page is the first page you see with the thread list, yes. i'll call it thread list page from now on.
b) indeed June is almost here. depending on participation, i'd think we could wrap this up mid to late June. but, remember, there's no time limit here
169. RustlerPike - 5/25/2001 11:16:57 AM
Anyone know who this man is?
170. JudithAtHome - 5/25/2001 11:35:08 AM
Looks like Bela Caroli, the gymnastics coach.
171. don s. - 5/25/2001 5:16:50 PM
Leroy Nieman?
172. JudithAtHome - 5/25/2001 5:18:37 PM
I think Neimans moustache is waxed and more sleek...but your guess was better than mine, seeing the drawings behind the guy.
173. don s. - 5/25/2001 5:21:49 PM
Sergio Aragonés?
174. don s. - 5/25/2001 5:25:14 PM
175. JudithAtHome - 5/25/2001 5:42:44 PM
Wow...who is THAT?
176. don s. - 5/25/2001 5:54:53 PM
I'll let Pike take it from here...
177. Ms. No - 5/25/2001 6:04:04 PM
He is or was a cartoonist for MAD magazine. He created Groo and worked on about a zillion other things including Elfquest and Sandman.
178. RustlerPike - 5/26/2001 1:16:08 AM
Yes (don s. - the truth: did you peek at the jpeg's name?). The guy who posted the picture took it at a book signing and said Aragones was 'the nicest man he'd ever met'.
Aragones did (does) all those hilarious little tiny comic illustrations that are scattered throughout the nooks and crannies of Mad's pages.
The reason I thought about him is I was thinking a loose, intelligent comickey look would be cool for the Mote. Problem is - it's a lot of work. I am trying to put something together right now and hope to be able to post something for your viewing pleasure later on.
This post was brought to you courtesy of L'oreal - because you're worth it.
179. concerned - 5/26/2001 1:58:17 AM
Sergio Aragones?
180. don s. - 5/26/2001 2:00:08 AM
Correct, but a little late, connie.
(Yes, I peeked. But if it counts for anything, I recognized the name immediately.)
181. concerned - 5/26/2001 2:06:22 AM
I posted from memory (over twenty years ago) & hadn't noticed yours.
182. RustlerPike - 5/26/2001 3:47:38 AM
I think concerned deserves the prize, but don is an honest don, which also counts for a lot.
Well, this is not Aragonesian and it's only part cartooney but it's what I have to show at the moment.
What I really want is to draw a bunch of cartoon figures at a village gathering, but that'll take me a while.
183. Ms. No - 5/26/2001 2:37:07 PM
RP,
That's WAY FUCKING COOL!!!!!! I love all the quotations and the scrolling poem.
184. PelleNilsson - 5/26/2001 3:24:13 PM
Rustler
You have developed amazing skills at this. Could you please slow the thing down a bit so that old farts like me have time to read? (I don't get it, I'm a speed reader, probably has to do with reaction time).
185. JudithAtHome - 5/26/2001 3:43:33 PM
Just keep it going, Pelle and try to pin down one quote per roll...you'll get them all in time.
186. PelleNilsson - 5/26/2001 4:08:54 PM
I did that but I didn't like it. Another thing: if we were to adopt Rustler's thing it needs maintenace, i.e. new quotes will have to be added rather frequently, otherwise it becomes boring.
187. JJBiener - 5/26/2001 4:34:04 PM
Here is a simple entry along the lines of our current logo.
Mote Logo
188. vw - 5/26/2001 4:37:06 PM
I like RP’s concept a lot. I would decrease the height a bit, make it a little more light weight so it doesn’t overpower the rest of the page.
And though it might be the killjoy Account Exec. in me (hey, I can’t help it … I got paid to pee on creative concepts), I would question the wisdom of including “You’re a fucking idiot” on every page on the site.
IOWs, it definitely is a cool concept and very, very worth fine-tuning but I wouldn’t be taking it to the client yet (grin).
189. vw - 5/26/2001 4:39:07 PM
What is that font face you used JJ?
190. JJBiener - 5/26/2001 4:47:42 PM
vw - That is Tempus Sans ITC.
191. PelleNilsson - 5/26/2001 5:01:55 PM
The background looks like a satin sheet. Add a champagne bottle for a touch of sophisticated debauchery.
192. CalGal - 5/26/2001 6:04:34 PM
RP's is fun, but it would take maintenance. What a nice job! JJ, Tempus Sans ITC is one of my favorite fonts.
193. Uzmakk - 5/26/2001 6:12:23 PM
Why can I not get Pike's link?
195. Ms. No - 5/26/2001 10:51:48 PM
I don't know that the quotes need to change all the time. RP has a good sampling of what's on offer pretty much all of the time around here. It doesn't need to advertise current topics but merely give a good feel for what the Mote is like and I think his selections do that although I'd include something from recipes too.
I think Pelle makes a good point to slow down the changing text just a tad and I'd also note that some of it is hard to read because of the contrast (or lack thereof) between the words and the background, but all in all I think it's an incredibly clever idea that wouldn't take much alteration at all.
I'm also very much in favor of the town meeting theme of "Mote". How serendipitous for us to have chosen it originally.
196. joezan - 5/26/2001 11:23:50 PM
Pike is a genius.
197. robertjayb - 5/27/2001 12:18:17 AM
Pike is a genius.
Careful, joezan. No telling where such talk might lead.
198. Stumbo - 5/27/2001 1:28:58 AM
I hereby cast my vote against anything more than 30k in size.
199. RustlerPike - 5/27/2001 2:30:37 AM
Joezan, rjb:
Pike is a genius.
Careful, joezan. No telling where such talk might lead.
I say - nuke Iraq now!!!
Stumbo:
I hereby cast my vote against anything more than 30k in size.
a) that would entail voting against my penis. Have you thought this through?
b) you're right, but the loading should basically only happen once, only to re-happen when you deleted all your temporary internet files, or offline content, or whatever.
c) the preload screen ('low-ding' in this case) can be made to look more like part of the movie itself, so the loading experience becomes pretty much seamless.
200. RustlerPike - 5/27/2001 2:46:48 AM
Pelle:
if we were to adopt Rustler's thing it needs maintenace, i.e. new quotes will have to be added rather frequently, otherwise it becomes boring.
Well, for one thing, I puposely chose quotes that could stand the test of time (like, when JJ plugs his band's appearance, I the year out of the date). But remember this is a sketch: I just went to the different threads and chose the first decent quotes I found.
If we use this concept, I was thinking the whole class could participate in this: people would choose quotes they thought were good and e-mail them to me; I would prepare, like, 10 or 15 screens like this (once the basic screen is there, it's not a big problem to put in different quotes), and these could be used in the different threads.
Ms. No (who are you, No? who were you, rather?):
I'd also note that some of it is hard to read because of the contrast (or lack thereof) between the words and the background:
Actually, the background gets darker and lighter as the sun goes round, and this cycle is not synchronised with the text's cycle (I'm not sure how this happened, but it's a good thing). So if something appears on a light blue bg the first time, it will appear on a darker bg the next time.
I also think there is a certain coolness about the quotes being a tad hard-to-get: we don't want people to read all the quotes the first time they see the screen. We want them to pick up a new quote they hadn't noticed every once in a while.
After all, once everyone gets used to it, this won't be the main attraction of the page: the actual posts will be.
201. Stumbo - 5/27/2001 2:53:09 AM
RP:
a) no comment.
b) yes, it'll happen each time my cache is emptied, which is (depending on what other sites I'm browsing concurrently) a few times per hour.
c) I don't wanna watch the same movie several times every day, regardless of how seamless it is.
I'll happily join the NUQ IRAQ movement, though.
202. RustlerPike - 5/27/2001 3:10:36 AM
Ms. No:
I'm wrong about the background cycles, it seems. It was different when I was working on it, I swear. In any case, that's fixable.
Stumbo:
When you get the chance, talk a little foreign policy with me at International, will you?
203. RustlerPike - 5/27/2001 3:21:25 AM
Stumbo:
yes, it'll happen each time my cache is emptied, which is (depending on what other sites I'm browsing concurrently) a few times per hour.
That's strange. I have Flash sites I go to a zillion times a month and I don't experience the preloader more than once: the .swf file stays stored offline somewhere. Do I have a humungous cache?
204. khaval alazman - 5/27/2001 3:36:41 AM
I'll repeat what I said in International:
Rustler's bizzo is shit-hot! It boggled my mind the first time I saw it. I really hope that it, or some version of it, becomes the front page logo.
But Wizard of Whimsy's thingy is also fantastic. What if that were the logo for the actual thread pages, and Rustler's were the logo for the front page?
Is this too tricky? Too disjointed?
205. Stumbo - 5/27/2001 4:09:36 AM
RP:
.swf? Has someone been reading too many personal ads?
At any rate, I've no idea whether that type of file behaves any differently than others. I don't know shit about how pooters work, I'm just a programmer.
206. RustlerPike - 5/27/2001 7:48:02 AM
'.swf' is the suffix for Shockwave/Flash files, Stumb. What's this about personal ads? What's a pooter?
207. RustlerPike - 5/27/2001 8:06:47 AM
Stumbo: if you'll forgive the intimate question - what is your bandwidth? I was looking at my cache: it's a measly 90 Mb. Takes me years to fill that up.
Still, you're probably right about the kilobytage. It's hard enough to get a Mote page to load as it is, sometimes. Like I said, this is just a preliminary entry. It might be better for a splash page (hey - I learned a new word!) or even for where new subscribers first land, to entice them in. I'll try to make something more lightweight for the threads.
208. Uzmakk - 5/27/2001 9:17:09 AM
Anyway, Pike's page sounds great, theme sounds great. I always thought that the Mote signified our smallness and our cuteness.
209. don s. - 5/28/2001 2:09:49 AM
GIF seeks SWF for pooter-jpegging. No fatties.
210. Stumbo - 5/28/2001 2:58:44 AM
RP:
28.8 -- pathetic, I know, but upgrading would entail more of a hassle than I'm willing to put up with. (I'm sure many others feel the same way.)
211. RustlerPike - 5/28/2001 10:12:42 AM
Stumbo:
I was expecting you to tell me you have ADSL or better, thus explaining how you fill up your cache so quickly. Have you checked how big the cache is, under Internet Options (in IE5)?
How many Americans still have a 28.8 connection? Even Israel is past that.
212. vw - 5/28/2001 11:35:53 AM
What if that were the logo for the actual thread pages, and Rustler's were the logo for the front page?
Oh man, I’m sorry I don’t mean to be insulting … but that suggestion is bad.
Graphics should not be the “point” of the page unless the page is all about graphics. Graphics should communicate critical information, enhance the users ability to navigate the site and identify their “location” and it should extend or support brand identity or in this case, the site personality.
Having dramatically different identifying images on various pages is a novice designer’s mistake. It’s distracting, it increases load time, it is more like to confuse then to communicate, and it makes the images the “hero” of the pages rather then the content which is why we want people here to begin with (to read out oh so brilliant content!).
I would strongly recommend against having multiple version of the header logo. Pick one, commitment to it and implement. Archive the rest of them for future use. Who says you can’t change your look and feel every 9 months?
213. Ms. No - 5/28/2001 2:11:16 PM
Very good points, vw, I agree.
214. labwabbit - 5/28/2001 9:37:15 PM
...ain't so great afterall.
215. labwabbit - 5/28/2001 9:42:47 PM
Sorta like putting neon-lights to signify the entrance of a natural wildlife park.
Any reference to any particular participant, real or ficticious, is not intended.
216. RustlerPike - 5/29/2001 7:51:05 AM
Is Ms. No The Artist Formerly Known as Wabbit? Someone clue me in.
217. PelleNilsson - 5/29/2001 8:26:38 AM
No. Ms. No is the charming lady with the leather whip formerly known as ChristinO.
218. rubberducky - 5/29/2001 9:53:54 AM
great submissions RP & JJ!
i'll get them on the site today along with vw's after i rework the site a bit.
219. Ms. No - 5/29/2001 12:49:17 PM
Oops, sorry, Rustler. I spaced on your query. Nothing secret about the change.
220. RustlerPike - 5/30/2001 1:44:04 AM
No. Ms. No is the charming lady with the leather whip formerly known as ChristinO.
Ahhh... so your first name is Christi?
221. Ms. No - 5/30/2001 1:53:12 PM
Nope, first name is Christin. Nobody calls me Christi, no one ever has, nobody had better ever if they want to live very long.
It was an Angelfive tag to begin calling me Ms. No. It kind of stuck and then I adopted it as my own a few months ago.
222. RustlerPike - 5/31/2001 1:26:24 AM
Oh. Where is Angelfive nowadays, btw? He always seemed like a slightly tamer version of Ace.
223. RustlerPike - 5/31/2001 2:01:18 AM
Oh, there he is, posting in every possible thread. He seemed to be gone for a while but mebbe it was just me who was gone.
224. Uzmakk - 5/31/2001 9:09:48 AM
Christi:
I have a death wish.
225. Ms. No - 5/31/2001 11:53:14 AM
Uzmakk,
No, you just want me to abuse you.
Besides, we already have a Christi here and that ain't me.
226. arkymalarky - 5/31/2001 9:15:26 PM
No, no, no, it ain't me, babe....
Sorry.
227. RustlerPike - 6/1/2001 1:20:49 AM
Arky, arky, arky.
What shall we do with you?
228. stostosto - 6/1/2001 3:46:09 AM
Go lightly on the ledge, babe
Leave at your own chosen speed.
229. stostosto - 6/1/2001 4:01:45 AM
Rustler,
I almost forgot: Your Mote-look entry is very, very good. In fact, it would be brilliant if you had included a quote from me.
230. RustlerPike - 6/1/2001 5:02:06 AM
sto:
In fact, it would be brilliant if you had included a quote from me.
I wanted to, but I didn't want to overpower people right from the outset.
231. RustlerPike - 6/1/2001 5:07:09 AM
Speaking of overpowering people, I have created the following photomontage of what the aftermath of a terror attack on our kindergartens would look like, to try and shock people into realising the danger we are in and the need to topple the Council (the terror attacks are getting nearer and nearer. A guy from Mevo Dotan, one of our neighboring settlements, was murdered near Baqa El Sharkiyeh the other day). I do not know if I should put this into my next flyer or if it will boomerang on me. 
232. RustlerPike - 6/1/2001 5:08:01 AM
Oops! I should have put this in International. You can delete if if you wish, O Threadgod.
233. arkymalarky - 6/1/2001 7:29:23 PM
I started to be offended that he didn't put in one of mine, but then I realized that mine are generally too subtle and profound to be appreciated at a glance.
234. rubberducky - 6/5/2001 2:20:24 PM
getting back to the topic...
for those of you wondering where the submissions went on the submissions page, well, i had a time with Homestead's horrible HTML 'editing' feature.
'nuff said
anyway, the site is now broken into 3 pages, with thread header images and thread list images being on 2 separate pages.
now, when should we stop accepting contributions? this is for this thread and round of consideration only - this could easily come back up in another 6 months. as stated, i'd like to have some kind of final vote by the end of the month, if possible. so, if you have any ideas or things you are working on, please let me know so that the timetable can be adjusted.
as always, thank you for your contributions and fawning praise.
235. vw - 6/6/2001 11:20:34 PM
Not to be picky but ...
The width attribute in the image tag for Integrated gif is incorrect which is causing it to be viewed inproperly. The width should be 620 not 761.
236. RustlerPike - 6/7/2001 2:21:43 AM
duck:
I'll try to get something done this weekend and show you guys. Then, if the reaction is good, I'll have a complete entry by the end of the month.
237. RustlerPike - 6/8/2001 10:52:38 AM
Can someone opine on this splasher?
238. Ms. No - 6/8/2001 1:27:24 PM
The first thing that comes to mind is the parable of the cave-----you know the one about the shadow on the cave wall and how you think it's one thing until you have a different perspective etc.
Only I can't think which philosopher is was who came up with it. Nor can I remember enough about the whole thing other than to say I like it a lot and it makes me think of how all of us here have at times been both the first man in the cave and believed ourselves to be the man with the broader perspective.
Once again I babble.
239. Ms. No - 6/8/2001 1:28:11 PM
Aesthetically I prefer the other image----the blue banner w/revolving planet/sun and quotations.
240. stostosto - 6/8/2001 1:42:53 PM
Ms. No
It was Plato. I've always found it was an extremely roundabout way of stating his point: That what we see and react to may be a reflection of a higher reality. And that, once that reality is revealed, some people will be in denial because they were used to the old world, maybe even had had status of 'experts' at interpreting the shadow images.
241. stostosto - 6/8/2001 1:44:12 PM
Rustler:
Is that supposed to be an entry for the Mote layout?
Or is it just an expression of your current mood?
242. don s. - 6/8/2001 3:36:09 PM
Plato? I was thinking of something more along the lines of "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here ..."
243. janjon - 6/8/2001 3:39:04 PM
I don't think a chatty campfire (putting that image as kindly as I can) does the trick here.
244. JudithAtHome - 6/8/2001 3:47:25 PM
Sto3:
I like your explanation very much...also, some didn't want to leave the cave because it is all they know and is enough for them.
245. JJBiener - 6/8/2001 3:51:44 PM
"Abandon all hope, ye who enter here ..."
That was Dante, I thought.
246. Andonly - 6/8/2001 4:59:36 PM
You need a special logo for the Inferno, a picture of a three-headed dog snarling and gnashing rabidly.
247. JudithAtHome - 6/8/2001 5:01:44 PM
Only three?
248. Ms. No - 6/8/2001 6:12:21 PM
Sto3,
Yes, Plato! Thank you, that was going to drive me nuts. I've been away from real books and learning too long so I can never remember the exact references only the vaguest of ideas. I've got two milk-crates full of philosophy and religion texts out in the garage drawing Silverfish and Black Widows but no place to put them in the house.
I agree with you that it was a convoluted way to say something simple, but I still feel it illustrates the point so explicitly as to give an added change to those whom the point might generally escape.
249. stostosto - 6/8/2001 6:18:22 PM
Judith
You're right, that too.
Ms. No
*blush*
250. RosettaStone - 6/8/2001 6:19:38 PM
So, what's happening? Are we going to have a new logo or not. JJ's bleeding fingernail MOTE has got to go.
251. Ms. No - 6/8/2001 6:34:37 PM
Here's a little Cerberus for you Andonly 
252. Ms. No - 6/8/2001 6:36:03 PM
Sto,
I've no idea what I said, but I do love to see you blush.
253. Andonly - 6/8/2001 8:22:20 PM
Ms. No, that's excellent indeed. Where'd you dig it up?
254. Ms. No - 6/9/2001 12:30:28 AM
I did a Google search for Cerberus and then checked out a bunch of sites and most of them had godawful graphics if they had anything at all and then some of them had okay graphics but not really what I wanted. This one was the best by a long shot a 10 in a sea of twos.
of course I can't remember the site I found it at.
sheesh
255. Ms. No - 6/9/2001 12:31:54 AM
I do know that it was some weird place I couldn't link to. Not a www site.
256. RustlerPike - 6/9/2001 9:40:08 AM
OK - I'll give it one more try. I guess that did come out more like a Young Judea campfire than a World Tribe gathering. I liked the fire itself though -you know, they're hypnotic, fires are.
257. rubberducky - 6/11/2001 10:22:04 AM
Re: Message # 235, vw.
this has now been fixed. sorry for the bad dimensions. the reason i did it is the image looks a little scrunched to me now, what do you think?
258. RustlerPike - 6/12/2001 3:09:59 AM
Well, these are my entries and fuck everybody:
Splasher.
Page logo.
Sample 'post' button.
259. rubberducky - 6/12/2001 11:08:37 AM
RP:
i like this, but i think the previous 'quotes' was far superior. was there any change of your changing that so that the text is legible in contrast to the background?
260. marjoribanks - 6/12/2001 11:29:50 AM
I like Spike's entries, though I wonder how practical it would be for every page.
Hence, I vote for the following (if at all possible):
Rework of the overall Mote look and feel as per Wiz's template.
Spike's contributions to appear "inside", perhaps randomly interspersed with some of the other contributions. I liked his flame image, that goes well with the inferno for instance.
But the Wiz plan for the overall look is way too good not to be implemented. It would most definitely liven things up and alleviate some of the inadvertent stodginess of this site, matching the style of discourse here.
261. PelleNilsson - 6/12/2001 1:08:59 PM
With all due respect for the effort involved I don't like Rustler's latest. They look like something from a children's site. Although there might be some (uncomfortable) truth in that, I don't think it is the image we want to project.
262. RustlerPike - 6/12/2001 4:02:17 PM
rd:
I can easily make the quotes more legible but there was this complaint by Stumbo which I thought was valid, about the graphic being too heavy (70 kb). Otoh, Stumbo seems to have a 2 kb cache, and admits to a 28.8k connection: for people with a normal cache and connection, the graphic would load once, relatively fast, and then stay in the cache for weeks and weeks. So maybe I was too quick to abandon that graphic after all?
Let's wait and see some other reactions to my latest entries.
Marj: mixing the different graphics wouldn't work: they are not even remotely related, style-wise.
Fwiw, I love those ICBMs arcing up and crashing earthwards. However, I seem to love warlike images in general.
263. marjoribanks - 6/12/2001 4:05:52 PM
Spike,
The threads in this site are , in a way, not remotely related, content wise. I see no reason not to mix and match in a quirky, intelligent way, given the overall style change as per Wiz.
264. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/13/2001 9:57:21 AM
Thanks Marj. I just got an exhibition at a new gallery in Provincetown that is scheduled for August, so my window for helping out around here has been drastically reduced. Someone should decide soon what is to be done in this regard.
265. marjoribanks - 6/13/2001 10:30:59 AM
I think it is pretty much decided, Wiz. Why not give us your dates and I'm sure a kind of consensus can be reached very fast.
Perhaps you can make the deadline as soon as the next couple of days. The deadline to decide to make use of your kind offer, that is.
266. marjoribanks - 6/13/2001 10:32:03 AM
Spike's contributions are good, and I see no reason why they should not be used internally. I love both the Flash splashers, perhaps for individual threads if it can be engineered.
267. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/13/2001 10:41:16 AM
Marj- Sure, I could probably do it in the next two weeks.
I can make the templates for the two pages easily, but I must request that it not be mongrelized — refinements and adaptations are fine, but for consistency and harmony’s sake it shouldn’t look like a three ring circus.
268. marjoribanks - 6/13/2001 10:51:34 AM
Wiz,
Work with wabbit. I know you two will do a killer job, and produce the best look for this site to go with the best interface already gifted by the Father of the Motion.
269. rubberducky - 6/13/2001 11:14:06 AM
Message # 14057 in thread 25 is from wabbit in suggestions:
I thought we were going to give people through this month to submit designs? If not, implementing WoW's design is no problem, I can write the html from his mockup.
btw, Pike, I don't see any problem with the splash page being largish kb-wise, because once people have seen it they will bookmark the following page anyway. It's the image at the top of the page that has to be kept fairly small.
we were going to wait til the end of June. however, we can see if anyone has anything they are working on.
so, does anyone have any submissions that they want to get in for consideration?
270. wabbit - 6/13/2001 11:50:44 AM
This is not very good and also is not a submission, but I'm posting a link to it anyway.
If anyone is intimidated by Flash, I will tell you that this is both my first attempt at using Flash and took about five hours total, starting at 3am this morning. Obviously this is very basic stuff, but still...it's fun, give it a shot.
271. rubberducky - 6/13/2001 12:06:05 PM
very cool, wabbit!
what kind of tools do you need to do your own flash? it's something i've thought of dabbling in.
272. wabbit - 6/13/2001 12:13:57 PM
Just the Flash program. Of course, you'll need an illustration program if you want to make drawings, but Flash seems to be pretty self sufficient. I'm sure Pike could tell you a lot more; as I said, I just started using the program this morning.
btw, CoffeeCup Software has just released a Flash-like program call Firestarter. It's undoubtably a very small version of Flash, but it might be worth a try if you don't want to spend the money on Flash.
273. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/14/2001 8:51:04 AM
Sorry for the tardy response; my ISP node went kaplooeey at 11 AM, yesterday.
So what is needed from me at this point? Thread list mock-up? Hexidecimal color conversions? What?
274. don s. - 6/14/2001 9:13:54 AM
Also, Adobe's LiveMotion also produces SWF files (i.e., files played by the Flash browser plug-in).
275. iiibbb - 6/14/2001 12:02:09 PM
I liked the ones with the quotes... but I think the pool of quotes needs to be much much larger (like from a database that hosts could add to), they need to be random, and with a slower delivery.
276. iiibbb - 6/14/2001 12:02:31 PM
That's in reference to Rusler's submission
277. RustlerPike - 6/15/2001 2:54:44 AM
iiibbb:
Well, since my quote submission seems to be the only one with a chance at beating Wiz's, I will prepare an official version of it and make that my submission.
Gimme a day or two.
278. RustlerPike - 6/15/2001 2:57:49 AM
As for a database idea - that is doable, but I'm not sure how. There's something called Flash Generator, I think, which does stuff like that.
For the time being, I could be sent a batch of snazzy quotes every month or two and plant them into the Flash movie manually.
279. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/15/2001 10:15:41 AM
Pike- As far as I'm concerned, the gig and this rinky dink place, is all yours -- Congrats!
280. RustlerPike - 6/17/2001 1:36:28 AM
WoW - no, no - put up your dukes and fight like a man!!!
281. RustlerPike - 6/17/2001 8:02:28 AM
Hey: My Nahel Tank Ambush Flash piece has been linked to!
282. marjoribanks - 6/18/2001 10:56:46 AM
Oh jeez. Wiz, please don't overreact. This place is both volunteer-driven and painfully slow to consensus and action.
It can be maddening, but it can and will be moved to action. Please e-mail wabbit, I'm sure progress can be generated on this matter.
283. CalGal - 6/18/2001 11:20:50 AM
I would be happy to put his design to use, at least on the dev site. If wabbit had something different in mind than just changing to his suggested colors, then she can either do the work or let me know what is to be done. The one thing I did ask Wiz is if he could make the logo bigger, since it's smaller than our current one. I gave him the link to the devsite to look at it.
284. rubberducky - 6/18/2001 11:25:03 AM
cool - if we can get the dev site to resemble Wiz's submission, i think we'd get a lot farther.
how long do you think it would take to make that happen?
285. CalGal - 6/18/2001 11:29:23 AM
Pretty quickly, but I think we'd then go through a give and take session.
I tried to do it a while ago--put the logo up, noted it was the wrong size, and then came back and asked Wiz for suggestions for colors and to size the logo. That's when he came up with the color motif that's on your site. I do have a concern is that if we use those darker colors, what color would we use for text font? I'm worried that black will be too dark. But we can tweak that. For starters, I need the codes for the colors--if that info's available anywhere, I missed it or I would have done that much already.
286. rubberducky - 6/18/2001 11:32:57 AM
do you have the Wiz's e-mail address?
if not, i could contact him and see if he can send that info
287. CalGal - 6/18/2001 11:34:58 AM
Is he still at the @home address?
288. rubberducky - 6/18/2001 11:42:59 AM
that's what i have
289. wabbit - 6/18/2001 11:47:39 AM
Cal,
Email on the way.
290. CalGal - 6/18/2001 11:52:50 AM
Yes, I got it back to you already.
291. PelleNilsson - 6/18/2001 1:23:01 PM
Well, I'm totally incompetent at graphic design (as a look at my page will confirm) but with Rustler taking a hiatus I support moving ahead with the Wizard's scheme asap.
292. ElliottRW - 6/22/2001 4:16:34 PM
What THE MOTE really needs is an exciting shock-wave movie set to some groovy music filled with funny, pointiant, and provocative excerpts and WoW artwork.
Here's an example of the kind of movie I'd like to see, although it's only really funny after you read this page.
293. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/23/2001 1:26:33 AM
294. ElliottRW - 6/23/2001 1:10:35 PM
Thanks WoW! I now have a way to visualize "Ace."
Although I must admit that a skull superimposed on a flashing Rorschach blot to the sound of an explosion is not exactly what I had in mind as an marketing tool for The Mote.
295. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/23/2001 2:28:18 PM
Hahaha!
Maybe not, but it surely describes the kind of headaches one can get after reading some of the posts around here.
Notice how Cal & wabbit do a team-ignore of anything I submit. Collusion, ironically, from the only two people here that I've been personally kind to in real life.
I remember defending Cal Gal to wabbit over a lunch long ago. Niner and I were the saps who defended her against "The Old Fray Guard" like wabbit & Irv. It was also the reason I left The Fray -- that and being embarrassed over the fact that I believed her desperate and manipulative lies regarding others' Emails.
Don S. always had her number!
Life is full of disappointment, I guess.
296. arkymalarky - 6/23/2001 2:38:20 PM
W0W,
I love your logo and design, and I hope you'll stick around, and that things will move on toward implementing it. I really think it's people being busy more than anything, which I know you are too, but the idea to make some changes is something several people spoke up on to get the ball rolling.
I liked Rustler's use of quotes, too, and wonder if that couldn't be incorporated somehow.
297. JudithAtHome - 6/23/2001 3:12:29 PM
If and when the Wizs stuff goes up on the dev site, could someone please send me the link to it...I had it twice but somehow seem to have lost it again.
298. wabbit - 6/23/2001 5:18:55 PM
I don't believe you are being deliberately ignored, Wiz. I sent you an email a week or so ago asking for a larger version of your logo and have not heard from you. I think Cal was going to email you as well, probably with the same request. This is what I threw together based on your small page comp. I assume the reason it isn't on the development site yet is technical, but I don't have access to that site. I would have made this public sooner but it's ugly with the nbci crap at the top of the page.
299. CalGal - 6/23/2001 5:35:56 PM
Sigh. I did send the links to him last week, when wabbit sent me them, and heard nothing. Nonetheless, I've been working on them today--converting wabbit's mockups to .asp files.
But the cabal story sounds much more interesting. Certainly it would require less effort on both our parts, Wabbit.
300. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/23/2001 8:16:27 PM
arky - Many thanks!
Cal -- Horsepoop! I've received absolutely NOTHING from you (or wabbit) at either email address: @home or Yahoo.
So stop trying to give others the impression of your feigned equanimity.
Your "cabal" comment only underscores your meanness and the sly cloaking of your maniacal compulsion for power and attention.
Your only responses to my efforts were going through the motions to see if I might cater to your every whim.
Wabbit - I'd like you to find just one post at The Mote that directly responds to the many posts of mine that either mentioned your name or said hello to you directly.
I've been trying to get you to respond ever since I returned here, so believe me, I'd remember if you did. I find it difficult to believe that your avoidance of my attempts to communicate were unintentional.
301. JudithAtHome - 6/23/2001 9:09:56 PM
The thing I love the most about Wizs logo is the reflection of the computer screen in the eye...it IS the mote in the eye of the beholder, the beholder being the computer.
302. vw - 6/23/2001 9:15:40 PM
Christ WoW, are you practicing to be a Big Agency Creative Director Prima Donna or something? Shit, I had enough of that kind of pissing and moaning in my past business life from a lot better designers then you.
Quit your bitchin'. Your design was appreciated, many have admired it and it's being used in a page mock up.
303. JudithAtHome - 6/23/2001 9:31:09 PM
vw:
I'm not really sure you know who WoW is but that doesn't matter...he's a professional and is offering his work gratis and I don't think we're so highfalutin that we should insult someone generous enough to take the time and effort to submit something, should we?
304. vw - 6/23/2001 9:35:48 PM
Sorry Judith, but it's not gratis if we have to pay for it in complaining and whining.
I too am a professional in the Web development field (though not a designer). Several people here also took the time and energy to submit work. No one else is throwing a hissy fit over the reception our submissins received.
305. CalGal - 6/23/2001 9:36:40 PM
Christ, Judith. You either aren't reading, aren't serious, or are taking the good little hausfrau image way too much to heart.
306. vw - 6/23/2001 9:37:03 PM
submissins = submissions
307. JudithAtHome - 6/23/2001 9:39:37 PM
Christ Cal, maybe I'm just saying what I think...did that ever occur to you? Or has that become something smackworthy along with about a zillion other things?
And my fucking hausfrau image has zilch to do with this or any reality except your skewed outlook on life.
308. CalGal - 6/23/2001 9:48:01 PM
Whatever, Judith. He shits all over everything, calls people liars, is ungracious, and when someone tells him to get a grip you go "now, now, we've got to be nice to Wizzie, the poor dear."
So if that's your reaction, then think harder next time before you start saying.
309. JudithAtHome - 6/23/2001 9:51:59 PM
I'm wondering how difficult it is to imagine he might'nt have received any e-mails from people who sent them because as we all know, if you send one, it arrives, regardless. I'm sure you always receive e-mail sent your way, despite the back and forths with people here on the Mote asking if so and so got their e-mail and the person saying, no I didn't...I seem to recall that even happening to YOU a few times.
310. vw - 6/23/2001 9:57:18 PM
Well, given that email is not 100% a given then why accuse someone of lying when they say they've sent you a message you didn’t receive? Especially two people that posted back and forth about your email address in this thread and clarified with each other that they were going to email you? (Quite the effort to make WoW think they were emailing him when in reality the were giggling about NOT sending it)
311. CalGal - 6/23/2001 10:03:29 PM
Judith,
Enough. You're a moron today. I shall trust that it's low blood sugar, or something.
312. JudithAtHome - 6/23/2001 10:05:53 PM
Naw, that may be your excuse but I had a Krispy Kreme today...
You ought to have YOUR blood sugar checked, though, and your kidney function, too.
'Night....
313. ElliottRW - 6/23/2001 10:13:45 PM
Boy, I'm not sure what's wackier--this thread or this Twelve Monkeys movie that I've been watching.
Peace, people.
314. CalGal - 6/23/2001 10:15:34 PM
Well, this thread at its worst is more entertaining than 12 Monkeys. Peace out.
Which reminds me, I miss Cartman.
315. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/23/2001 11:32:04 PM
Judith - Please don’t bother, it isn’t worth the time or trouble.
VW-
Christ WoW, are you practicing to be a Big Agency Creative Director Prima Donna or something? Shit, I had enough of that kind of pissing and moaning in my past business life from a lot better designers then you.
Whatever, Judith. He shits all over everything, calls people liars, is ungracious, and when someone tells him to get a grip you go "now, now, we've got to be nice to Wizzie, the poor dear."
316. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/23/2001 11:33:32 PM
not = note
317. vw - 6/24/2001 2:33:16 PM
Oh horseshit WoW. What exactly are you griping about? I can’t be that your image wasn’t received well (it was). It can’t be that your image isn’t being more than seriously considered as the new look and feel for the site (it is).
So what is it? That things didn’t get done when you wanted them to? That you came back from where ever you were off to and the new site wasn’t up with your image on the top of every page? The possibility that other people also have other commitments, also donate their free time to this endeavor and just maybe didn’t have the bandwidth to jump right on top of making changes?
318. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/24/2001 2:58:03 PM
vw- All of your revealing suppositions above aren’t remotely accurate.
The fact is, and the posts above confirm that, CG resents the use of Judith‘s original idea and my critical rational of The Mote’s graphic interface.
Everything that has followed was predictable and, believe it or not, I could care less about my design or whether it’s ever used.
Everything you imply speaks volumes about your loyalty — as well as your gullibility and lack of awareness.
I was once, where you are now — dupe!
319. vw - 6/25/2001 9:14:58 AM
Good lord, what are you babbling about? And why can’t you just answer a straightforward question?
Your post is a beautiful representation of what is wrong with small forums of this type.
I can’t just have an opinion of my own, based on information I read here and my own experiences. No, no … I have to be a “dupe” or lackey of one small sub-set or another. It is assumed that I have some kind of “loyalty” to one little nit-picking circle-jerking group of like-minded posters or another. It can’t possibly be that I don’t know any of you; I wouldn’t recognize you if I tripped over you in my bathroom and that I have no other interest in knowing you except to respond to the ideas and opinions posted here in this forum. No, no I MUST BE part of a secret faction intent on your personal cyber destruction.
Time for a new tinfoil hat is it?
320. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/25/2001 10:10:55 AM
”It can’t possibly be that I don’t know any of you; I wouldn’t recognize you if I tripped over you in my bathroom and that I have no other interest in knowing you except to respond to the ideas and opinions posted here in this forum.“
Possible, but highly unlikely — seeing how you’ve not posted here before. Why would you jump into the middle of thread without knowing anyone and defend a total stranger?—unless of course you were yet another desperately lonely cyber-junky with too much time on their hands.
321. vw - 6/25/2001 10:13:50 AM
I have posted here before, try reading up thread. I also host a thread here, try looking at the front page.
322. alistairconnor - 6/25/2001 10:13:54 AM
Hey Wiz, could you drop me a line, tech@themote.com
Thanks
323. vw - 6/25/2001 10:15:58 AM
I don't "know" anyone here in the sense that I don't have some kind of vested interest in "siding" with one poster over another.
Now, you are fully within your rights to consider my opinion total shit, think I'm a wanker for holding it or discount me due to it. But you have no cause to assume or aver that it isn't MY opinion.
324. vw - 6/25/2001 10:20:46 AM
Anyways, I'm sorry for being offensive. Seriously.
325. marjoribanks - 6/25/2001 10:23:22 AM
VW,
I believe you and your 323 entirely. However, some here have a kind of history, and it is (in my opinion) not wise or worthwhile to interject when this history is being displayed or explored again. It is too easy to be a sap or, as Wiz put it, a dupe in such a discussion.
None of this is meant to say that you do not have every right to say whatever you want in whatever thread, it is just to perhaps give you context. And to underline that Wiz's comments, while they may appear off-base to you, reflect accurately his extended experience and take based on his years-long history in this forum and its predecessor.
----
Wiz,
Please do e-mail AC asap.
326. rubberducky - 6/25/2001 10:42:04 AM
i'd like to maintain a civil tone, here, please.
Wiz, i like wabbit's mockup quite a bit and think it would really play well here. what are your thoughts?
i updated the Redesign page of the submissions, for everyone.
if anyone else wishes to contribute, please do so before Friday!
327. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/25/2001 11:44:31 AM
RD- I agree, wabbit did a stellar job and if you use it, fine, if not, fine...if it’s criticized, fine, if it’s refined — FINE!
If you’d like input or help with any other pages - FINE!
[It rains on the roses in the garden and the weeds in the desert without concern for either.]
[I also have a friend who is a Catholic priest, and he was once institutionalized with a nervous breakdown. During his stay at a mental hospital, the inmates taught him to always respond to the staffs’ queries with “F.I.N.E.!”, which stood for Fucked-up. Insecure. Neurotic. & Emotional!]
328. rubberducky - 6/25/2001 11:51:07 AM
WoW
what reFINEments do you suggest?
329. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/25/2001 11:59:08 AM
RD-
I didn’t mean to imply anything. I only meant that needs and tastes change and people come up with better and more eeffficient ways to organize information.
330. rubberducky - 6/25/2001 12:02:23 PM
oh, ok, Wiz. i think wabbit's take on your stuff is fantastic and hope others like it.
PS did you win the Bush contest you were in?
331. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/25/2001 12:12:56 PM
Good!
Hardly, the bubblegum (bubblebrain) minions rule on the web. The final tally and award is to take place on Bush’s birthday, July 6th. I take consolation in knowing that my efforts and The Modern World page have the lowest number of votes.
332. wabbit - 6/25/2001 12:16:30 PM
Wiz,
I sent you another email 6/23 at 9:17pm -- have you received it yet?
333. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/25/2001 12:37:25 PM
wabbit- No—nothing received. Which mailbox, @HOME or Yahoo?
334. wabbit - 6/25/2001 12:38:40 PM
@home. I must have an old address for you. I'll try the yahoo one now.
335. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/25/2001 12:46:37 PM
Nothing yet?
wizardofwhimsy@yahoo.com or myname@home.com
336. wabbit - 6/25/2001 12:48:48 PM
uh-oh, is it wizardofwhimsy or THEwizardofwhimsy@yahoo.com?
337. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/25/2001 12:50:10 PM
No “THE.”
338. wabbit - 6/25/2001 12:50:56 PM
Ok, one more try...
339. rubberducky - 6/25/2001 12:50:59 PM
he's 'the' in name only
340. JudithAtHome - 6/25/2001 12:53:43 PM
Funny how e-mail is so ephemeral, isn't it? One little glitch and nothing arrives...
341. wabbit - 6/25/2001 12:55:53 PM
Alright, the yahoo one with THE just bounced back and I've resent, minus the THE.
342. alistairconnor - 6/25/2001 1:20:27 PM
"The The" was an English new wave combo of the early 80s, as I recall.
343. CalGal - 6/25/2001 1:28:31 PM
I've duplicated much of wabbit's mockup using Wiz's logo and ideas on the dev site--I didn't have as much time over the weekend as I'd like.
Here's what I have so far. Wabbit's version filled the whole page, which I like better, but there's a parameter in there somewhere setting the table width that I have to dig out.
If Wiz prefers having both bars (one on each side) that's fine with me. I have a lot of trouble matching colors--wabbit is much better at it. If someone gives me the code for the colors, I'll do that as well.
But please, it'd be much nicer if there weren't all the screams of cronyism involved. I am not averse to change at all, and I don't appreciate the various accusations. I really don't understand what all the shouting is about. I have followed this thread with great interest, spent a fair amount of time working on the idea Wiz submitted to get it up and running--so why the accusations of lies and agendas? It's very odd.
344. rubberducky - 6/25/2001 1:33:31 PM
looks good to me, CG.
i have no opinion on the bars on both sides or not. i like both.
only (minor) gripe i have is that the contacts at the bottom are messed up.
thanks to you, Wiz, and wabbit for working on this on your own free time- it is greatly appreciated!
345. wabbit - 6/25/2001 1:34:01 PM
As soon as I posted, I started humming Love Is Stronger Than Death.
346. theDiva - 6/25/2001 1:35:59 PM
now that looks nice.
347. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/25/2001 1:36:01 PM
348. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/25/2001 1:37:05 PM
Deev! How was the Cape? The weather, et al?
349. CalGal - 6/25/2001 1:38:02 PM
Ducky,
It is by no means done--I just was focusing on getting the various pieces in place. I will fix the contacts tonight.
What do people think about one bar vs. two on the front? I will get the viewpost page working asap.
350. theDiva - 6/25/2001 1:46:54 PM
Wiz
Fab beyond words. I absolutely adore Wellfleet with all its galleries and beaches. We even bought a print for my dad at the Blue Heron. As for the food...oh, the food....lots of seafood, and at The Lighthouse in Wellfleet, the best omelette I have ever had in my life. Perfectly cooked eggs with crumbled linguica sausage and some sort of mild white cheese. Oh yum.
351. PelleNilsson - 6/25/2001 1:48:27 PM
CalGal
I like the two-bar design much, much better. And also the colour scheme in wabbit's mock-up.
352. CalGal - 6/25/2001 1:49:49 PM
I'm using exactly the same colors as in wabbit's mockup--I copied the codes exactly. Do they look different?
Is there a wabbit mockup with two bars that I've missed?
353. rubberducky - 6/25/2001 1:55:15 PM
this has 2 bars
354. PelleNilsson - 6/25/2001 1:55:29 PM
CalGal
The link is in Message # 298
355. wabbit - 6/25/2001 1:56:25 PM
Cal,
This one from Message # 298.
356. wabbit - 6/25/2001 1:58:09 PM
Too slow, too slow. I swear, I can't wait to have my hands back...
357. CalGal - 6/25/2001 1:58:15 PM
I'm sorry, I missed that one--it's what you were referring to in your email. Okay, I'll get cracking on that one--it's actually easier to do.
358. rubberducky - 6/25/2001 1:58:21 PM
(and also now on the handy no-one-looks-at-it submissions page)
359. CalGal - 6/25/2001 1:59:16 PM
I do actually look at the submissions page, but not every time. I check in on it every so often to see what's new.
360. rubberducky - 6/25/2001 1:59:34 PM
seriously, though, CG, can you leave the single bar version somewhere for people to look at?
361. CalGal - 6/25/2001 2:03:22 PM
Yes, sure. I created a redesign folder in the dev site, so I can just put various submissions in there. For now, none of the links will work because they're pointing within the folder.
362. rubberducky - 6/25/2001 2:04:22 PM
ok, cool.
when you have a link to the single bar version, i'll update the submissions page.
363. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/25/2001 2:11:47 PM
Diva- I'm relieved to hear it -- the weather in CT wasn't that good.
ducks- here is a companion page for my banner. . . 
364. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/25/2001 2:13:51 PM
Here is a larger version.
365. rubberducky - 6/25/2001 2:16:40 PM
thanks Wiz!
366. rubberducky - 6/25/2001 2:18:11 PM
oh, and a general thread note is the scottanton@homestead.com e-mail address will be dead by tomorrow as homestead is dropping support.
please use the address at the top of the page if you need to contact me.
367. arkymalarky - 6/25/2001 2:36:24 PM
I love it. I like the two bars, too.
368. wabbit - 6/25/2001 2:46:40 PM
Here is a rough mockup of Wiz's thread page. The green border doesn't work in Netscape 4x.
369. alistairconnor - 6/25/2001 3:12:51 PM
I can fix the border.
370. JudithAtHome - 6/25/2001 3:17:57 PM
On the front page that Cal linked to, I liked the logo shown on the dark blue background. I also liked the 2 bars version...
Only thing I didn't care for were the words "Motie sign in"...the word "motie" just jars a bit.
371. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/25/2001 3:22:17 PM
Looks good, wabbit. Can you paste a small butter-bar over a slightly larger mint-bar in Netscape? . . .or use a frame or a box to do the same?
372. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/25/2001 3:24:39 PM
Oops - should have refreshed -- never mind!
373. wabbit - 6/25/2001 3:27:31 PM
Wiz,
Yes, there are always ways to fix things for Netscape. I just wanted to get something up asap for folks to see.
374. PelleNilsson - 6/25/2001 4:11:24 PM
Shouldn't the right-hand bar on the thread page have the same colour scheme as the one on the front page?
375. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/25/2001 4:51:49 PM
Pelle's right, I forgot to change the color.
376. wabbit - 6/25/2001 7:36:59 PM
Here is Wiz's page with the color corrected. Here is a modified version, same basic colors -- too different maybe?
377. khaval alazman - 6/25/2001 7:55:02 PM
Wabbit, re: #376, I much prefere the first one. Entirely personal aesthetic prefercence, obviously. :)
Congrats to everyone working on the new look. It's kinda exciting.
Small thing, though: It's really important for readability and comprehension that the text of posts be in a serif font. A number of studies have been conducted that suggest readability is severely compromised in bodies of text that are sans-serif.
378. ElliottRW - 6/25/2001 8:00:07 PM
Wabbit, re: #376, I much prefere the second one.
Now, wabbit, run your Hegelian-dialectical-transputer to find the optimal synthesis of these two offerings so that both Khaval and I can leave equally unsatisfied.
379. wabbit - 6/25/2001 8:00:54 PM
Khaval,
I think we have the posts all in serif. Did we miss something?
380. wabbit - 6/25/2001 8:03:40 PM
Hmmm, perhaps a third version...nah!
Spunky and I are in the midst of moving. Poor thing has to do all the real work, but swears he needs me to supervise placement of stuff. I'll check in later.
381. JudithAtHome - 6/25/2001 8:11:00 PM
I like the second one in post 376, too.
382. khaval alazman - 6/25/2001 8:34:28 PM
Elliot, LOL!
Wabbit, it was just on one of WoW's mockups that the font was not serif. I just wanted to make sure that in the final thingy, posts would be as they are now.
Yet again, hearty mazal tov to you and your families on the wonderful work! Have a kishke on me!
383. Ms. No - 6/25/2001 9:02:16 PM
kishke-kishke!
"Gimme a kishke, leetle gurl, heh heh"
Have to say I like the second offering in 376 better. It groups all the non-pertinent-to-read-every-time-you-load-the-page information. I'm sure that says something conservative or anal about my preferences, but it just looks neater to me.
384. Erinys - 6/25/2001 10:17:13 PM
I like the second choice from 376. The blocks of color make it easier to tell where you are and what's going on.
I do not like than tan bar on the right in either of them, though. It does not go with the greens and blues from the new mote logo, IMO. And the red arrows clash even further.
A simple white box outlined in black, with dark blue or green arrows, maybe?
Also, would it make more sense to put the "Go to the mote# "up on the greenish horizontal bar by the VCR controls? Keep all the post navigation in one area?
And move member name down below, in what is now the vertical tan bar, since it probably wouldn't all fit in the green area.
385. Erinys - 6/25/2001 10:18:55 PM
Oh, and the "related links" and "thread list" on the vertical bar are sans-serif.
Good work, I like the new look.
386. wabbit - 6/26/2001 8:00:25 AM
Erinys,
We (as in the royal we) decided to try sans-serif for the lists on the thread pages the last time we played with the look of the place. Posts will remain serif.
387. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/26/2001 10:32:41 AM
At the risk of yet more accusations of prima-donahood, I have to be honest and say that the modified (thread list) version doesn’t make it graphically for the following reasons:
It doesn’t relate as a graphic module or subset of the banner page. It merely takes the logo and arbitrarily (but tastefully) wanders into an entirely new and different motif. The banner is a symmetrical post-and-lintel shape while the modified version is an inverted “L” shape that is out of balance and hovers over the page somewhat ominously. It’s a distraction rather than a smooth transition from the base page. Moreover, it competes with the banner as well as the reader’s attention.
The blue color, though handsome, is also arbitrary and unrelated to the logo, and all that went before it. The idea is to effect a transition that is unobtrusive and focuses on the posts, facilitating the actual reading of the thread—rather than distracting the reader from doing so.
If one were to think in musical terms, it’s like introducing an atonal interlude into a highly structured piece of music. It gets your attention, but it also distracts you away from the theme completely.
I don’t want to belabor or argue the points, I just felt it important to present a logical rationale on why I felt the modified version is not a very good solution to the problem. Now you may feel my version isn’t much better, and that’s fine, but at least be aware of what the graphical issues are when you make your final decisions.
I really have to get out some studio work, so I won’t be able to respond much, but thanks for the responses and for taking the time to care.
388. vw - 6/26/2001 10:36:42 AM
At the risk of yet more accusations of prima-donahood
I guess this indicates my apology for offending you was not accepted. Fine.
389. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/26/2001 10:49:34 AM
vw- Sorry! Of course it's accepted, but I hadn't realized that your apology was directed at me. I harbor no resentment or ill will whatsoever; I try to operate under the maxim of the following:
A monkey in a tree hurled a coconut at my head. It stung a bit, but I picked it up and broke the fruit in two. Then drank the milk and next, I ate the flesh. I am now in the process of making a bowl of the shell. So thank you for your criticism of me .
390. vw - 6/26/2001 10:53:22 AM
Whew. Thank you. I've been an unmitigated crank recently, apologies again.
391. AceofSpades - 6/26/2001 10:56:34 AM
I hate to be contrarian, but I find Wiz's logo-thing pretty ugly.
It looks like the trying-to-be-hip-but-failing-miserably cover of my high-school German-language textbook.
392. JudithAtHome - 6/26/2001 10:57:07 AM
Maybe he'll give you the other half bowl!:-)
393. JudithAtHome - 6/26/2001 10:57:48 AM
392 was to vw...
394. AceofSpades - 6/26/2001 10:58:41 AM
Or maybe it wasn't the cover. Maybe it was just the chapter splashpage for the "Musik" section.
You know, the chapter where you learned how to say "Der 'Sphinx' ist meine lieblingsgruppe" or "Die Rockmusik is sehr gut."
395. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/26/2001 11:11:10 AM
A critic is a legless person who teaches running--"If I had feet, I could beat you in a foot race!"
Thanks Ace! 
["I'm ready for my close-up Mr. DeMille!"]
396. AceofSpades - 6/26/2001 11:15:12 AM
Well, your GIF sucks, Wiz.
I find it amusing that you claim you "take criticism well." You don't. You immediately get pissy about it.
Your GIF sucks and looks like marquee of a strip-mall unisex nail-parlor.
397. AceofSpades - 6/26/2001 11:17:58 AM
The MOTE--
Wetcuts-- $20.00
Manicure/Pedicure --$50.00
398. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/26/2001 11:31:16 AM
Well Ace, you don't seem to like it when someone matches your ridicule with the same, but more importantly, you miss the point -- it was an invitation to inlist your graphic acumen.
Of course my humor is "pissy" while yours, can only ring of sincere truth.
Put forth an insightful rationale for your opinion other than specious ridicule and I promise to match it with applause and genuine rebuttal.
399. arkymalarky - 6/26/2001 2:37:57 PM
Ace doesn't know art, but he knows what he likes.
400. arkymalarky - 6/26/2001 2:38:18 PM
And of course, he's wrong.
401. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/26/2001 4:10:10 PM
Or vice versa, ark; he may only like what he knows.
402. arkymalarky - 6/26/2001 4:22:20 PM
Well, he'd have to be danged picky, then. ;-)
403. PelleNilsson - 6/26/2001 4:24:23 PM
Der lieber Ace is aber ganz durchlichtig. "Ich hasse contrarian zu sein" meint natürlich "ich liebe contrarian zu sein". Wir kennen ja unser Ace sehr gut, nicht war?
404. Erinys - 6/26/2001 4:28:01 PM
I'm just sorry I got 'here' late. It would have been fun to try my hand at a new logo. Somebody's post up a ways gave me an idea about dust specks floating in a sunbeams, and it would have been along those lines. But due by Friday... no can do.
AceofSpades, since I've seen neither your German textbook or that nail salon, I still don't quite understand what you don't like about it.
OK wabbit, I thought you had asked upthread where the sans-serif was on the page, so I was helpfully pointing it out.
And Wizard, yes, I was wondering about the inverted L too, because I thought all the pages were going to have the post-and-lintel shape. I do like that blue, though. Now I'm off to try to find your original version.
405. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/27/2001 8:54:28 AM
Erinys- Don't let the time-line diminish your enthusiasm & creative juices--go for it!
406. Dusty - 6/27/2001 10:50:48 AM
khaval alazman posted upthread about the desirability of a serif font. I've made similar statements, referring to a study that showed easier reading of serif fonts. But I recently read about an oft-cited study that turned out not to exist, so I started to wonder—has anyone actually read this study? I can find numerous mentions of the study, but I haven't found the study itself (or even the name).
I did, however, find this information, which is relevant:
The answer to the question of serif versus sans-serif fonts for online documents is actually technology driven. On paper, using printing technology, serif fonts are measurably more legible, because in tests people can read serif fonts more quickly and with fewer errors. This advantage has been grasped since before the Middle Ages (hey, would you carve serifs on your granite monuments if you didn't have to?). The theory is that the serifs help the eye recognize the shape of letters more quickly and accurately.
On display screens, studies have shown the opposite -- that sans-serif fonts are more quickly and accurately read. Why? Because with their lower resolution, display screens don't show serifs very well. That is understood by companies that have studied the problem; I know Digital Equipment studied it, and I'm pretty sure I recall reading that Microsoft did extensive studies.
Before you run with that information, however, I should point out that two technological developments may be changing the balance back toward serif fonts online. The first is the steadily increasing resolution of display devices; the second is the invention of antialiased or "fuzzy" fonts, which trick the eye into seeing details finer than the screen can actually display. Antialiased serif fonts may well be as readable as san-serif fonts online.
407. Dusty - 6/27/2001 11:03:15 AM
OK, supposedly the 1982 Moriarity study (but I still can't find it.)
However, from here:
There is, however, no consensus as to the effects of serif fonts on readability. Degani (1992) has suggested that serifs provide a guide for the eyes to follow across a printed page, facilitating horizontal movement. Reynolds (1984) suggests that serifs may contribute to the individuality of letters, thus aiding the recognition of word shapes. However, there are no empirical data to support either of these claims. ...
[emphasis added]
Although Sorg (1985) showed that Helvetica (a sans serif font) was easier to read than Century Schoolbook (a serif font), Vanderplas and Vanderplas (1980) found just the opposite. Neither Paterson and Tinker (1932), nor Poulton (1965) found a difference between serif and sans serif fonts in readability. Similarly, Smither and Braun (1994) found that for most dimensions (reading speed, errors, subjective ratings) there was no difference. Moriarty and Scheiner (1984) found no difference between serif and sans serif fonts even with minimal inter-letter spacing.
408. rubberducky - 6/27/2001 11:13:45 AM
Erinys:
please do come up with your own ideas. hopefully, we'll change the look & feel of theMote every 8-12 months (well, that's my hope -- no Mote consensus).
so, even if you don't get something in on this redesign, it can easily be considered the next go-round. all the images submitted thus will be kept and reconsidered when we get tired of the new 'look'.
409. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/27/2001 11:44:26 AM
Dusty- Thanks! That should send every traditionally trained graphic artist up the proverbial wall.
I've been overriding site fonts in favor of non serif fonts for quite some time; I like it because it has a cleaner look.
410. Dusty - 6/27/2001 12:04:17 PM
Wow
I'm sure you noted that the site I quoted wasn't from a recognized source—could be an expert, or just some yahoo, but it does suggest that the conventional wisdom may not be as definitive as everyone says. I'd still like to see the studies, if anyone has a link.
411. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/27/2001 4:45:23 PM
Here is an educator who seems to agrees, Dusty!
There's also some very good graphic advice here.
412. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/27/2001 4:48:18 PM
Internet Design Issues
[Same educator]
413. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/27/2001 4:53:01 PM
Seems like there might be a consensus building. . .
When creating a formatting style, remember to keep it simple. A primary reason to do so is because not all fonts appear the same across all computers or applications, such as web browsers. Your formatting style will translate more effectively if you use standard font typefaces such as Helvetica and Times Roman that most users are likely to have installed and that most browsers recognize. Regarding type faces, choose a typeface that best suits the purpose of the material. Sans serif fonts (Helvetica, Arial, etc.) are easier to read onscreen and are best for body text. Serif fonts (Times Roman, Garamond, etc.) are easier to read in print and should be used ifyou are creating a large text document that you expect users will wish to print to read. Serif fonts can be combined effectively with sans serif fonts for online reading, but should be used for large text such as headings rather than body text.
414. Erinys - 6/27/2001 5:59:40 PM
Thanks for the encouragement, Wizard and rubberducky. Yeah, 8-12 months sounds about right.
Now, what is that "three-click rule" mentioned in 411/412? No more than 3 clicks on the sidebar to scroll to end of page? No more than 3 clicks to sign into a site?
415. don s. - 6/28/2001 12:11:40 PM
Three-clicks rule:
There should be no more than three clicks from the home page to any other page in the site, as opposed to forcing the user to plumb a baffling, endless hierarchy of links.
416. RosettaStone - 7/4/2001 3:13:04 PM
Now that everyone is pissed off, let me ask.
So who won, and when will the redesign happen?
417. vw - 7/4/2001 4:11:45 PM
You're more than a week late Rosie ... everybody kissed and made up.
418. RosettaStone - 7/4/2001 4:24:17 PM
You really think so, vw? RustlePike and Fielding are gone and I'm next.
So, answer the question. Who won and when will the re-design happen?
419. ElliottRW - 7/4/2001 4:30:26 PM
RosettaStone
I'm sorry to hear you're planning to leave. This will be a quieter, less interesting place without you.
420. RosettaStone - 7/4/2001 4:33:35 PM
Well, thank you. Elliott. Much of the summer we will be in Europe or the Outer Banks, NC.
But the real reason I may be leaving is involuntary in that I have three moderators reading every post of mine looking for my mentioning something that I can't talk about here.
421. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/5/2001 10:41:40 AM
" . . . when will the redesign happen?"
Good question!
422. rubberducky - 7/5/2001 10:46:12 AM
the last i was aware, CG and possibly wabbit were going to get the development server to look like some of the suggestions here and we were going to discuss.
CG: is this correct?
423. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/5/2001 11:04:35 AM
Thanks for the heads-up, RD.
424. RosettaStone - 7/5/2001 1:51:47 PM
All roads lead through California, I see.
The way host rubbertheduck and mote management handled this contest/graphic change are just another example(s) of poor leadership and little communications.
Missing e-mails, my eye. I get all of wabbit's e-mails (unfortunately).
I particularly regret Pike leaving mote. But I guess everyone in power here is sensitive to the bloody fingernail "artwork" logo, and the fact that the author of it holds all the mote monies.
425. JudithAtHome - 7/5/2001 2:02:38 PM
Look, Rosie-One-Note, this is moving along...why don't you? Shouldn't you be packing your Louis Vuittons and booking passage for the Emerald Isle, getting shots and such?
426. RosettaStone - 7/5/2001 2:34:58 PM
No, I won't disappear until I'm thrown off, Judith.
When I asked the rubber in the mote's annex thread about the changes three weeks ago, he said it would happen the first of this month.
My questions are: who won? And what is it going to look like? And when will it happen? And how did we get the bloody fingernail in the first place?
We've lost valuable posters over this "debate," and it turns out that we have missing e-mail.
It's a mystery.
427. JudithAtHome - 7/5/2001 2:36:16 PM
It's only a mystery to you...
428. RosettaStone - 7/5/2001 2:43:40 PM
Well, you must have the inside information then. Explian it to me. Did Wizard win? What was the vote?
Why didn't the original designer submit anything in the re-design?
Is mote going to use any of the designs/ideas of Don s, or the missing Pike.
It seems the winner, WOW, doesn't know much more than I do.
And it isn't like CalCal doesn't live here enough to explain when it's going to happen.
And, most important, when are we going to get a spell checker or opportunity to make corrections for the first 30 minutes?
429. PelleNilsson - 7/5/2001 4:41:13 PM
Real Moties don't need a spell checker or an edit feature. They are above such pedestrian stuff.
430. CalGal - 7/5/2001 4:51:34 PM
Ducky,
Sorry, I hadn't checked back here in a while. I've been working on a fixed price bid, which I hate, and haven't had time to work on the page. Sorry for the delay. I was hoping to get to it last weekend, but I had to spend it staring at a blank page.
If someone has time to look at the asp code and make the changes, even a first pass, it will speed things up. It's the getting started part that makes it hard for me to drop this project and take up the other.
431. fuzzbox - 7/14/2001 6:05:36 AM
So...
What is up?
Where is this asp? I think you are correct CalGal you need (anyone would benefit from) a collaborator(sp?). Just let someone say, "this is how it will be!" And you will say ~"okay, except..."
I have a suggestion, but I might be very wrong...
432. Erinys - 7/15/2001 11:09:25 PM
Yes, I'm very looking forward to the new design!
433. rubberducky - 7/16/2001 1:10:34 PM
fuzzbox:
what suggestion do you want to make?
Erinys:
i am as well. i wish i had the time to take some of the work from CG. but, she'll get to it when she can.
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