4517. JudithAtHome - 7/7/2001 8:24:47 PM
Banks:
That's a lovely shot...the reflection of the clouds is incredible.
4518. arkymalarky - 7/7/2001 8:25:24 PM
I meant for other than a professional photographer, btw.
4519. marjoribanks - 7/7/2001 9:25:30 PM
Sure. Digitals have gotten a bit more advanced, but the good ones are very expensive compared to SLR's. If you want to be even fairly ambitious with your photography, digitals aren't really a workable option for the average joe. Zan has one like mine, I'm guessing.
I think, seeing his shots, I may fool around with some more arty shots than I've been taking with my digital. Maybe if others do the same we can have a Mote photography contest.
4520. JudithAtHome - 7/7/2001 9:30:58 PM
I know so little about digital cameras; can one take black and white shots with them?
I used to do "arty" shots all the time and won some local contests but most were in B&W, which I like because it is forgiving...
4521. marjoribanks - 7/7/2001 9:43:19 PM
I'm sure B&W is easy to do with any digital.
4522. joezan - 7/8/2001 1:20:25 AM
Thanks, all.
Arky:
Our local Meijer's supermarket has a booth where you can print your digitals. It can run into some money, though - $6 for each sheet, which basically gives you 2 4x6 prints.
I just buy photo paper and print them off myself at work.
BTW - black & white's easy.
4523. joezan - 7/8/2001 1:22:00 AM
Beautiful shot, marj.
4524. joezan - 7/8/2001 6:27:04 AM
Ok, I know lighthouses are easy. But here's another one, taken tonight, that I'll use to explain why I think a digital *can* be as versatile as an SLR:
Here's my first shot - I was racing against time, having just arrived at the parking lot as the sun was sinking low...but I would have lost a shot of this gorgeous sky had I waited any longer. So, even though I was too far away, I cranked my mighty 3x optical zoom all the way, and..
...when I downloaded, I could see I'd need to do some work - about a minute's worth. I cropped, enlarged, and...
4525. joezan - 7/8/2001 6:35:28 AM
One more - this is the North Pier, from the Lighthouse Pier:
4526. Erinys - 7/8/2001 6:39:41 AM
Yo. I need a beach vacation. Where is that lighthouse, again?
4527. Jenerator - 7/8/2001 6:42:18 AM
My husband is a professional photographer.
He swears that the digital camera will never fully replace the standard camera because of the quality difference.
He illustrated this for me by taking an action shot with one of his Canon's (EOS?) and a 300 mm lens. He then took one with a Canon digital (the 300 mm is not affordable for a digital right now) and I could see the difference.
However, I believe that as advances are made with copying paper, lens quality and affordability, digital cameras will be the next wave in photography.
So, I'll be investing in a good one for him this Christmas.
4528. JudithAtHome - 7/8/2001 4:54:12 PM
I think the two shots joezan just posted, one which he'd "worked" on, are an example of how versatile these cameras can be and I doubt even a professional photographer could have delivered that second shot any quicker because of all you must go through to develop and print film. That, to me, is the biggest draw for most people...the way you can preview and have the prints done quickly.
I don't think the digital will totally replace SLR cameras but we may be surprised at how quickly they dominate the market...after all, those who are partial to Hasselblad 4 x 5 plate photography think SLR cameras are inferior to theirs.
4529. PelleNilsson - 7/8/2001 7:08:46 PM
My trusted old Minolta gave up on me in Norway. I have thought about going digital but the problem is that what you buy now will be obsolete within short. I think I'll buy a new SLR. Minolta has a nice one with a 40-200 mm zoom which is not very expensive. I'll probably buy a digital too, but from the low end.
4530. joezan - 7/9/2001 5:22:35 AM
Pelle:
The only real advances I see coming for digitals are in megapixels. I hear several companies are set to begin marketing 6, 7, and 8 megapixel cams for mass consumption - but they will be a lot pricier than what you pay for a 2.1 or 3 megapixel camera now.
And, really - I just cannot see any difference between, say, a 1.3 mp and my 2.1. I have a Kodak at work that we bought over a year ago for $300 (you can get comparable now for $200), and the photos it takes at standard and high-quality settings print out just as well as photos taken at the same settings with my $500 Olympus.
The biggest difference I've seen is in the printers I've used. At work, I use a 2400x1800(?) dpi inkjet. Using good quality photo paper, the prints are just as clear as any conventional photos.
The ones I have brought in on disk to print at the do-it-yourself booth (where they use a high quality laser printer), however, are far superior to conventional photos, imo. The sharpness and color depth are amazing in many cases. For instance, I have some photos, taken in my parents' livingroom, in which the windows well behind the subjects are open, and you can see clear out onto the front lawn, across the street, and around the corner.
Every detail (which you would never even capture with a conventional camera because of the difference in lighting) prints out crystal-clear.
Another thing to consider, of course, is the photo program that comes with the camera. The Camedia program that came with the Olympus is far better than the Kodak program. But it's no biggie - I just save pictures from both cameras into the Camedia program.
4531. joezan - 7/9/2001 5:27:44 AM
Oh...and I forgot to mention - once you get past the High Quality setting in digital, it's a real pain. For one thing, pictures printed from High Quality will print optimally at 8x10, while those from the standard setting print at 4x6. But try emailing anything above standard quality. More than one picture at a time, and you can spend a good 20 minutes waiting for it to send.
4532. joezan - 7/9/2001 6:00:08 AM
One thing that's neat about the software program is, if someone emails me a picture, I can save it to the photo program, and manipulate it any way I like:
I can cut out people I don't know, center, enlarge, and add them to whatever album I want.
(apologies to marj for using his shot here).
4533. joezan - 7/9/2001 6:00:34 AM
One thing that's neat about the software program is, if someone emails me a picture, I can save it to the photo program, and manipulate it any way I like:
I can cut out people I don't know, center, enlarge, and add them to whatever album I want.
(apologies to marj for using his shot here).
4534. joezan - 7/9/2001 6:01:24 AM
...and I can do it twice, if I like.
4535. joezan - 7/10/2001 5:22:38 AM
Grand Haven Pier, 7/10/01
4536. JudithAtHome - 7/11/2001 6:52:12 PM
Joe, Keoni likes your pictures because they have people in them...he and I always have arguments because I am one of those types who likes shots devoid of people...we once took shots of the statue of King Kamahamaha and it looked as though we'd gone on different days: his was crowded with tourists in all their touristy glory and mine focused a few feet higher on the statue and the tree behind it, not one camera-carrying Japanese tourist in the frame.
4537. Rivendell - 7/11/2001 9:47:28 PM
JJ,
Oh host extraordinaire (probably didn't spell that right)
Have you posted the details of the evening your band opens for BB King? I have been AWOL lately.
4538. CharlieL - 7/11/2001 11:11:31 PM
Riv! How are you?
4539. Rivendell - 7/12/2001 12:49:11 AM
Chuckles,
Peachy. And yourself?
4540. Indiana Jones - 7/12/2001 7:28:47 AM
I asked upthread about Nine-Inch Nails and mentioned I was trying out some new music after not really buying much (current stuff) for a couple of years.
Well, someone I'm probably the last here to discover is Faith Hill. Bought "Breathe" and, besides being easy on the eyes, she has a really pretty, involving voice. Sort of thought the was in the Shania Twain category previously, but she's not. Good album, almost start to finish.
(Mebbe I shouldn't say that about Shania Twain, since I haven't listened to much by her, but I've the impression she banks more on her looks than talent.)
4541. theDiva - 7/12/2001 3:18:57 PM
Wiz
#4495
Thanks for your story...I am always curious what motivates artists to pursue the life, for it is a life, isn't it, and not just a job.
As for me...well. My interest in the arts has been part of me from day one, I suppose. My parents sang us to sleep with Lambert, Hendricks, and Ross arrangements, dragged us to MoMA and MMA when we were tiny kids, blasted opera over the stereo on Sunday mornings, etc. Natural as breathing. Dad even had a darkroom in one of the houses we lived in, so I picked up on that, too.
For better or for worse, the Muse gave me desire and aptitude but not real talent...so I confine my efforts to snapshots of my kids, and singing in the choir on Sundays. Nobody gets hurt that way! :)
4542. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/12/2001 4:05:40 PM
You’re as sage as you are sweet, Deev — and I’m glad your still breeding! (Besides, there are enough narcissists in the world already.)
4543. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/12/2001 4:05:50 PM
You’re as sage as you are sweet, Deev — and I’m glad you‘re still breeding! (Besides, there are enough narcissists in the world already.)
4544. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/12/2001 4:06:34 PM
OOPS!
4545. theDiva - 7/12/2001 4:10:14 PM
thanks, Wiz, you're kind to say so.
Gracie goes through periods where she wants to be an artist, and I believe she has the talent to do so. As her mother I am torn between pride in her abilities and the desire for her to fulfill her potential, and the fear that her life will be hard.
And then she turns around and tells me she wants to go into naval intelligence instead and be the first woman to command a submarine.
Go figure.
4546. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/12/2001 9:59:35 PM
Well, either way, she might always get a good view of the ocean!
4547. PelleNilsson - 7/12/2001 10:09:15 PM
Lovely piece, Wiz. I'm searching for a word (that I know) to describe it, but my English has abandoned me for the moment.
4548. marjoribanks - 7/12/2001 10:43:16 PM
Wiz,
I agree with Pelle's appreciation. The last two you've posted have been really quite good. What's the medium? I'd thought watercolors but now I'm thinking again. And what's the size?
And, um, if I may be direct - what's the price?
4549. janjon - 7/12/2001 10:51:28 PM
yes, those are some striking pieces of art. Some might say a bit too decorative, but I think the balance of the compositions and the various contrasts in colors and subject matters are quite interesting.
My hunch is that they are pastels. And, smaller than one might suspect/expect.
But, I could be wrong.
4550. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/12/2001 11:19:51 PM
Thanks for your interest folks. The last one is a monotype and it is small --15 by 16 inches.
It's for a small gallery show in Provincetown (on Cape Code) called "Provincetown Skies."
I haven't determined the prices yet and it all depends on my framer's prices. I'm assuming around $800 (of which I'll get half if it's sold).
So deducting $100 for an archival matte and a good quality cherry frame and stretcher (not to mention materials and a $4000 press used to make it), I might make $250 on it after I deliver it 300 miles.
I would have become a submariner, if I wasn't so claustrophobic!
4551. janjon - 7/12/2001 11:25:31 PM
you are pricing too low, WoW.
I have seen dreck/drek/shit for much more.
Granted, P-Town is a touristy place when it comes to the sale of art (and where for some the cost-per-inch is still a factor). But, it is certainly at least a notch or two above most other summer tourist areas when it comes to the level of the art shown and sold (at least in some shops).
At any rate, at those prices, you will sell well.
4552. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/12/2001 11:29:27 PM
Oh, BTW, marj, the others were watercolors and I usually get aquainted with visual ideas with WC studies first.
I'm working on on larger painting for the show that's all about a big pier in sun light -- and the color bule of course. It's quite promising and I have to stop fussing with it soon because I only have a few weeks left for it to dry.
4553. JudithAtHome - 7/12/2001 11:35:09 PM
Pelle:
I'm searching for a word (that I know) to describe it, but my English has abandoned me for the moment.
I can tell you what it is: it's what I said with a distinct catch in my chest as I looked at it for the first time, "Oh my god!!"
4554. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/12/2001 11:35:10 PM
Thanks Jan. My wife thinks they're too low also, but it's my first show with this dealer and I want to sell out. I like the intimacy of the gallery; it's right on the main street and I also want a yearly venue there.
It's so much more convenient than lugging all my gear to Venice every year and the light is actually better!
4555. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/12/2001 11:36:03 PM
J@H- SMOOOCCCHHH!
4556. JudithAtHome - 7/12/2001 11:36:34 PM
Actually, the light in that last one reminds me a lot of late afternoon in Venice....
4557. janjon - 7/12/2001 11:40:27 PM
WoW - I was going to say something more about the low pricing in terms of perhaps you're just starting out, but it was obvious to me that you are far from just starting out. However, a new venue and desire to establish a track record are good reasons to go on the low side at first. I have an artist friend who never sells (well, hardly ever) but his prices are way up there. I've tried to convince him that that ain't the way, but he just can't bear to sell for less than a lot of the crap that he sees out there.
4558. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/12/2001 11:45:27 PM
And Ptown is getting almost as expensive, Judith, because of that light, which I like to call kind light.
(The monotype is 17"x15" btw--not 15x16. Everything has a vertical (portrait) axis (rather than a horizontal) because you can fit more on the wall and because of to the sky theme.)
P.S. How's your back?
4559. JudithAtHome - 7/12/2001 11:50:39 PM
My back? My back is great...it's my knee and my voice which are blown. Although, my voice is tons better today...now I only sound like a frog half the time.
4560. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/12/2001 11:54:30 PM
janjon- It's a tough racket (and believe me it's a racket --especially in NYC), but if you catch fire, you make out big time (thinking of Cheney here)!
I'm not much of a careerist, but my work is in some museum collections and I usually sell most of what I make, so I consider myself very fortunate.
There's a glut of people calling themselves artists out there and with the morass of images and social artifacts flooding our lives, I wouldn't encourage my kids to be artists -- if I had kids.
4561. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/12/2001 11:57:17 PM
Judith- Gosh, the last time I was in the Cafe, you were having back problems. Sorry for all these recent maladies and well wishes for a speedy healing!
4562. JudithAtHome - 7/13/2001 12:01:27 AM
I usually think of myself as malady free but evidently, I'm not as much so as I think....hmmmmm.
Have a great and productive weekend....or a fun one, whichever!
4563. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/13/2001 12:06:30 AM
Thanks and you stay out of karaoke bars!
4564. Cellar Door - 7/13/2001 12:18:57 AM
4565. JudithAtHome - 7/13/2001 7:34:11 PM
Off to see a play this afternoon, the title of which is wonderful:
I Love You! You're Perfect!! Now Change!
4566. PelleNilsson - 7/15/2001 7:48:49 PM
Now I have found the phrase to describe the Wizard's painting: "simmering solitude". Maybe he will recognize it.
4567. Ms. No - 7/15/2001 8:32:28 PM
Last night I fulfilled a dream I've had for more than five years: to see Nina Simone in concert. She was both not what I had expected and more than I could have imagined. She was helped to the stage by a young black man while the crowd gave her a standing ovation and she waved what looked to me like a lion's tail. Over the course of the night I came to believe that Simone likely snatched that tail directly off the lion's ass daring him to naysay her for collecting her due.
She is likely the oldest 68 year old woman I've seen in a long time. She does not walk well and at first I thought her speech halting from infirmity. She sat at her grand piano in a long evening gown with a slit up the side nearly to her hip and I wondered if she would have the strength to play. I feared that I had waited too late in life to see her and that I would be disappointed and embarrassed for this old woman past her prime trying to capture the glory of her youthful self. Then she struck a chord and sang out a single word and I was lost. "Black...........is the color of my true love's hair....."
A sparce and haunting tune of her own composition her voice rang deep and resonant as a baritone sax washing over the crowd silencing their adulation and stealing the breath out of us. Simone has never had a pretty voice. She only became a singer by default, in fact, but there is something about the power of her sound and the inflection, the pure raw emotion that epitomizes the term "soul artist".
cont.
4568. Ms. No - 7/15/2001 8:32:51 PM
cont.
At the end of her first number a member of the crowd shouted into the brief silence "We love you Nina!" and she smiled indulgently and replied "Well, I love you too, darlings." This was merely the first such exchange of the evening. Throughout the night people would call out the names of songs they wanted to hear and she would reply in gentle rebuke "I can't play all those songs, now. I know you know them all, you've got all the albums." Nothing funny in the words themselves but her delivery cracked us up--- as she intended.
My favorite number of the night was Four Women. I attended the concert with another Simone fan and we both agreed that we had never heard a recorded version--studio or live-- as moving and as powerful as last night's rendition. There was a subtle re-orchestration we'd never heard before that showcased her long-time musical director on the vibraphone. It gave the tune a more rolling feel not unlike the movement of a woman's hips as she moves wearily but determinedly through her day.
Speaking of women's hips, Simone actually stood and did a bit of hootchie-cootchie for us during See Line Woman. Her performance was sprinkled with these humorous moments. She's not at all kidding when she sings Mississippi God-Damn! She means every word, but as hard as she may hit with the hammer of moral and political righteousness she's quick to pet away any personal sting that may linger by lightening the moment with humor. She imperiously waved her lion's tail directing the crowd's response, playing the role of Diva to the hilt but with an implied wink to let us know that she has earned it, and she is fully capable of playing the role, but it's still a little bit silly.
cont.
4569. Ms. No - 7/15/2001 8:33:12 PM
cont.
She sang the African-American national anthem, her composition - To Be Young, Gifted and Black, a tribute to Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. - The King of Love is Dead, her sexy original - Sugar in My Bowl, and renditions of the Beatles and Bob Dylan - Here Comes the Sun, Just Like A Woman. She also brought in a few sprituals, one especially for her older brother who, at 80, took his first plane trip ever to come and see her perform and joined her on stage for a moment.
I was struck by the make-up of the crowd. More white than black, more young than old and nearly more gay than straight. I remarked upon the large turn-out of gay men in the audience and my friend informed me that Simone played many of her early gigs in gay clubs. We also noted not unkindly that she is a bit reminiscent of a drag queen. She is a tall woman and thickened through the middle with age. She is flamboyant in dress and demeanor....and then, there's that voice. We speculated over whether she's actually old enough to have been the inspiration for rather than having been inspired by the drag-queen phenomenon. The dichotomy between seriousness and comedy, between her warm treatment of the audience and her biting political statements captivated me. In the end, the experience reminded me of nothing so much as worshippers both pleading for indulgences and paying homage to an icon. She commanded and we followed. We laughed when she said, we cried when she said and we rose from our seats to pay our obeisance again and again. Nina Simone most certainly is the High Priestess of Soul.
4570. JudithAtHome - 7/15/2001 8:48:37 PM
Great review...I felt the crowd and the moment.
4571. Ms. No - 7/15/2001 8:57:44 PM
Now that I'm able to breath a bit I should also mention that Los Hombres Calientes opened for her. With Bill Summers on percussion and Irvin Mayfield on trumpet they positively smoked!
If you get a chance to see them I highly recommend it. Great Afro-Cuban sound with a good dose of New Orleans jazz.
They did a number called Africans (?) which was spectacular but their rendition of Night In Tunisia brought down the house.
4572. theDiva - 7/15/2001 9:00:21 PM
good stuff, Ms. No. Wish I'd been there....
4573. janjon - 7/15/2001 9:05:11 PM
I am quite envious.
You also were quite lucky. The odds had to be that, for whatever the given reason at the given concert, Nina would have just ended things mid-stream.
4574. janjon - 7/15/2001 9:09:02 PM
Incidentally, a very evocative "review" too. Thanks.
4575. Ms. No - 7/15/2001 9:15:45 PM
Janjon,
The odds had to be that, for whatever the given reason at the given concert, Nina would have just ended things mid-stream.
The woman certainly doesn't lack for 'tude! She is imperious but her audience was more than willing to play the supplicant. Just to watch her interact with her band and her fans was awesome. I am very glad that she was feeling indulgent, however! I'd have hated to miss a single number.
4576. janjon - 7/15/2001 9:19:52 PM
Ms No,
I am curious as to a number of details. How large was the "auditorium" in terms of seating capacity (I am assuming this was indoors at some hall or theater)? Sold out, I assume? Price range for tickets?
4577. Ms. No - 7/15/2001 9:32:42 PM
Last night's performance was at the Greek Theater. Simone has played LA a couple of times in the last two years at smaller venues which sold out-----which is why I hadn't been able to see her.
I don't know exactly how many seats are at the Greek, but it was about 80% full. Previously she's played at the Wiltern which I've never been to, but it's much smaller I believe.
Ticket's ranged from $30 to $100, but sonically there's no such thing as a bad seat at the Greek. You can hear well even from the concourses where they sell food and drinks.
The $100 seats put you close enough to be spit on from the stage, but we were back a section and still able to see very well. The section behind us wouldn't have been able to make out the details of her face, but there are only two sections in the entire forum where you might have a really bad view.
4578. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/15/2001 9:55:21 PM
Many thanks, Pelle — and Ms. No, for make my work break so pleasurable.
Nina will be a treasure as long as humanity has ears.
[I love Bobby Short and Nina and I’m not gay — does that make me sad?]
4579. labwabbit - 7/15/2001 9:58:22 PM
The $100 seats put you close enough to be spit on from the stage, but we were back a section and still able to see very well.
Oh ya...I'd pay 100 bucks for that. I can get that at a town meeting for free.
(mus' be gettin old)
4580. Ms. No - 7/15/2001 10:06:04 PM
WoW,
I don't think it requires that one be gay to appreciate Nina. In fact, I had no idea that she had such a large following in the gay community.
However, if you can't be gay, there's no need to be sad but maybe wistful and contemplative with a banked fire burning under the skin-----much like your painting made me feel.
4581. PelleNilsson - 7/15/2001 10:38:26 PM
Wizard
I got "simmering solitude" from a web site with a review of your work.
4582. CalGal - 7/15/2001 10:52:31 PM
Christin,
Nice review. I'd never heard of Nina Simone until my sister gave me a blues CD; I listen to her version of Trouble in Mind all the time.
4583. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/15/2001 11:53:11 PM
Hahaha! Ms. No, lets face facts, taste is taste, so to hell with the labels and the relativity of personal orientation. Thanks too for the kind and inventive response, BTW.
Pelle, when it comes to words, we both can learn mo’ from The Ms. than The Wiz. [Gee, you’d think I’d remember something like that — rather than all the criticism that’s indelibly etched on my brain.]
I can’t believe I just painted a light house . . .and I like it! Now I know I’m dead in New York (or maybe just dead to it). [I’ve also been listening to Nina. Maybe I should call it Nina’s Light At Long Point?]
4584. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/16/2001 12:54:52 AM
Hahaha! Ms. No, lets face facts, taste is taste, so to hell with the labels and the relativity of personal orientation. Thanks too for the kind and inventive response, BTW.
Pelle, when it comes to words, we both can learn mo’ from The Ms. than The Wiz. [Gee, you’d think I’d remember something like that — rather than all the criticism that’s indelibly etched on my brain.]
I can’t believe I just painted a light house . . .and I like it! Now I know I’m dead in New York (or maybe just dead to it). [I’ve also been listening to Nina. Maybe I should call it Nina’s Light At Long Point?]
4585. Ms. No - 7/16/2001 6:05:39 AM
hahaha! Groovy title, Wiz!
4586. PelleNilsson - 7/16/2001 2:55:57 PM
If JJ's band opened for B.B. King tonight they would be in Stockholm now.
4587. janjon - 7/16/2001 7:14:34 PM
Wiz - even Mondrian painted a light house. At least once - early on in his career.
But hey, it was a nice painting, too.
4588. CharlieL - 7/16/2001 7:27:22 PM
Just make your next painting a dark house for contrast...
4589. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/16/2001 7:50:03 PM
LOL! You both have a point . . .and I assume Charlie’s is: Don’t forget your meds!
4590. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/16/2001 7:53:59 PM
How about a light house with a dark shadow?
4591. JudithAtHome - 7/16/2001 11:59:13 PM
How about the House of Dark Shadows....Barnabas Collins, anyone?
4592. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/17/2001 5:48:33 AM
I never watched that show, Judith. It always seemed like The Guiding Light with fangs.
4593. arkymalarky - 7/17/2001 5:51:39 AM
But The Guiding Light was a great soap!
4594. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/17/2001 6:14:10 AM
Sorry, arky, I didn't watch that either.
I had trouble watching anything my mother watched!
4595. DJ JOE INC - 7/17/2001 9:32:14 PM
Current favorite CD- Outrospective by Faithless- a mix of techno and rap- Faithless has a hypnotic quality when he raps.
Can anyone explain the popularity of Mikka Costa and that song "Like A Feather"- it seems like bland blues-rock to me.
4596. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/19/2001 4:23:29 PM
4597. JudithAtHome - 7/19/2001 4:38:07 PM
Oh boy...another winner, Wiz! Really, really nice.
I'm wondering if my BushBribe might be a chance for investment in art.....
4598. ScottLoar - 7/19/2001 4:56:19 PM
re Message # 4595: How can anyone explain popular taste by other than "popular taste"?
4599. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/19/2001 5:19:26 PM
Thanks Judith. It's a small beacon at the end of Provincetown called Long Point. In winter it's an incredibly desolate place.
"BushBribe." How true!
4600. glendajean - 7/19/2001 5:33:55 PM
Wiz -- I've enjoyed all your P-town paintings. Thanks for sharing.
4601. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/19/2001 5:52:08 PM
Thanks for responding, gj!
4602. JudithAtHome - 7/19/2001 5:53:21 PM
Wiz...do you have a page with all of the paintings in one place?
4603. Jenerator - 7/19/2001 5:57:55 PM
In the computer blaring at the moment is the soundtrack to "The Cool World".
It's an excellent cd for techno, electronica, and rock n roll.
I'm so incredibly hyper I can't take it anymore!
4604. JudithAtHome - 7/19/2001 6:00:09 PM
Have some herbal tea, Jen....don't become overwrought this late in the game. It'll work out, trust me. Those people know how to handle things...
4605. glendajean - 7/19/2001 6:00:11 PM
If I could paint, (and I cannot), I would paint the edge of light between buildings and the sky at sunset. When I lived in DC, I rarely ever saw a sunset because of buildings, tall trees and a hilly terrain that blocked it out. But I could see the brilliant and clear light hitting on roof lines and stone walls, and was often fascinated with the coloring of this twilight space.
The few times I've spent in P-town, I was amazed at how the light seems like that almost all the time. Someone told me that it was because of it being almost completely surrounded by water.
4606. Jenerator - 7/19/2001 6:03:08 PM
Judith,
I'm trying to not be too optimistic. I have a sinking feeling that hubby wil chicken out or not purse the opening.
I have her on three other waiting lists, and the *minimum* wait is 8 months.
I really hope this works out.
Btw, I had a decaf latte!
4607. Jenerator - 7/19/2001 6:04:11 PM
pursue, not purse
4608. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/19/2001 6:08:17 PM
Judith- I hope to get around to it after I deliver the show.
Here's another that may illustrate your comment, glenda . . .
4609. glendajean - 7/19/2001 6:23:05 PM
Wiz -- great painting of the Pilgrim Tower at sunset.
What I was referring to was not the orange glow so much as the clear light just before the orange hues arrive: the bluish white sky, the clear light on the edge of a building that is normally not as visible when the light is overhead instead of at an angle.
I would also paint alleys and the back of houses. I had a friend with a roof deck who invited us to a Fourth of July Party to watch the fireworks on the Mall. It was fun to see the city not from its traditional marbled buildings and stately front row houses, but from its roofs and back porches, with the Washington Monument breaking the sky plane in the middle.
4610. rubberducky - 7/19/2001 7:18:01 PM
Salon makes some good points in the Napster debate. also, linked is their story on why the RIAA is scrambling like a giant ready to fall. my hypothesis (and one that is subtly hinted at) still stands: the industry is in a slump because a lot of what you hear on the radio these days sucks and not in a good way.
4611. Ms. No - 7/19/2001 7:22:40 PM
Wiz, 4608 is stunning. Thanks for sharing these.
4612. Jenerator - 7/19/2001 8:49:51 PM
Yes, Wiz! They're truly beautiful. I wish I could afford you right now.
4613. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/19/2001 11:44:08 PM
Thanks folks.
Glenda, it sounds like you have the inclinations and preoccupations of a visually dominant landscape painter, regardless of your ability to paint.
Ducks- "sucks and not in a good way." LOL!
4614. JudithAtHome - 7/20/2001 7:24:04 PM
You know how words to songs can be heard the wrong way? There's a website with lots of examples, like "'Scuse me while I kiss this guy"...
I just had a revelation listening to an old Elvis tune which was one of my very faves, Don't Be Cruel. There was a phrase in there that I never could understand and suddenly, it was crystal clear today..."...don't start the hanky number ". I never knew what those two words were, much less what they meant...and now I do.
Learn something new every day...
4615. JudithAtHome - 7/20/2001 7:27:48 PM
And here is an absolutely fabulous video of Christopher Walken Dancing To FatBoy Slims Weapon of Choice
4616. JudithAtHome - 7/20/2001 8:03:30 PM
Tonight we are going to a play called The Revelations of John the Waiter...it's a one man show that skewers religion and social mores. It's being done on stage at an old movie theatre which has wonderful bas reliefs of the New World and Columbus' ships on the walls; a great place where I used to see Saturday Matinees as a kid. I'm glad they are saving this one as it is one of the last of the fantastic old movie palaces in Fort Worth.
4617. PsychProf - 7/20/2001 8:05:20 PM
Judith...how neat...what a great way to spend an evening.
4618. JudithAtHome - 7/21/2001 7:23:28 PM
The play last night was hysterical...Jesus made an appearence wearing a dark blue tee shirt with W.W.I.D. on it...too funny.
4619. ScottLoar - 7/21/2001 7:28:22 PM
I saw the video Message # 4615 on tv yesterday afternoon; it is.... simply great.
4620. glendajean - 7/22/2001 6:14:55 PM
it sounds like you have the inclinations and preoccupations of a visually dominant landscape painter...
In Woody Allen's movie Interiors, Diane Keaton (who plays a poet) and Barbara Hersey (who plays Keaton's actress sister) discuss their sister Joey, who has tried many artistic endeavors and has failed in all of them.
"Poor Joey," says Keaton's character. "She has all the temperment of an artist, but no talent."
4621. rubberducky - 7/22/2001 6:51:12 PM
Re: Message # 4615, JudithAtHome.
i adore that video! i saw it a few weeks ago and have been meaning to mention it here and ask if anyone else had seen it.
4622. JudithAtHome - 7/23/2001 3:11:21 PM
Hey, Ducks...check this out!
Just saw this in Salon
-- July 23, 2001 | NEW YORK (AP)
Fatboy Slim received nine MTV Video Music Award nominations Monday for "Weapon of Choice" -- a video in which he never appears. Its sole star: actor Christopher Walken, dressed as a businessman who dances around an empty hotel lobby.
Nice!
4623. marjoribanks - 7/23/2001 4:01:54 PM
Ripley and i saw Janet Jackson's stop in Columbus in her All for You tour and she was, in a word, fabulous. she has an unbelievable stage presence and the sets, costumes, dancing, and raw energy radiating from that stage made the ticket price more than worth it.
rush out and see this show if you like a good pop concert. you don't even have to know/care for her music in particular, just go to see someone go all out.
Well, there you have it. Ducky is now officially 100% gay.
Congratulations, Duck!
4624. rubberducky - 7/23/2001 7:15:12 PM
MB:
well, i can still butch it when i haveta!
J@H:
that is great news - of the videos mentioned, it should handily win ... but that just means it won't and thus the reason i never watch those damn shows.
4625. ScottLoar - 7/24/2001 3:33:03 AM
Africa seems the most appealing of continents in cartography:
Carte Generale de L'Afrique,...
Pierre Mortier, c. 1700
4626. don s. - 7/24/2001 6:22:46 AM
well, i can still butch it when i haveta!
Uh huh.
But, anyway. I think I'm going to take a page from Luckyducky's swatchbook and begin each of my posts by referring to my live-in boyfriend, the humpy South American.
Last Sunday, Diego and I went to the supermarket and purchased some absolutely divoon roma tomatoes and a fabulous hunk of ginger root. I encourage everyone to go to the supermarket and pick up some ginger root!
Ta!
4627. rubberducky - 7/24/2001 3:09:36 PM
don s.:
i give you the attention you so desperately crave in Message # 10028 in thread 32
4628. CharlieL - 7/24/2001 7:03:25 PM
I went to the store, picked up some ginger root, and put it right down again. I realized I had absolutely no idea what to do with it.
4629. don s. - 7/24/2001 7:44:21 PM
Fondle. Nothing more.
4630. marjoribanks - 7/24/2001 8:23:48 PM
Grate it. Place the results in a pan with a lot of water. Heat to a boil. Proceed to use said water, reboiled, when making tea.
Highly soothing and pleasant for a sore throat. Also efficacious when mixed with honey, lemon (and brandy) for a throat-calming nightcap.
---
But ginger, fresh ginger, is good for so many things.
4631. ScottLoar - 7/24/2001 8:26:30 PM
Put grated ginger into cakes; sliced ginger works well over fish, as part of a marinade, but especially in fish soup; I especially like ginger-peach pie.
4632. ScottLoar - 7/24/2001 8:28:01 PM
Before grating or slicing ginger always be sure to peel away the outer skin; just peel away from that much of the ginger as you are going to use at one time.
4633. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/25/2001 12:18:02 AM
I'm so glad I can count on this bunch for highly amusing repartee when I need a break from hot humid work in a city that makes it's own gravy when it thunders & showers.
You all need a good "His Frudulency" tote bag while they're still on sale. . .
Get them while they last because "His Illigititude" will replace this item shortly--making it a true collectors' treasure!
4634. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/25/2001 12:19:45 AM
Back to hell for me -- TaTa.
4635. Absensia - 7/25/2001 5:34:21 AM
Wiz,
The mugs arrived to day...one of each...they are wonderful!
4636. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/25/2001 6:25:50 AM
Abs- Many thanks, I'm thrilled. The idea of these becoming artifacts gives me more pleasure than being in a museum!
4637. Absensia - 7/25/2001 6:28:59 AM
Hahahahah, It's wonderful!
4638. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/25/2001 6:33:32 AM
Oh, you're up! Back to matting & framing for me. Sweet dreams . . .and drinks!
4639. Absensia - 7/25/2001 6:57:52 AM
Thanks! It's still early here on the west coast. G'night and sweet dreams to you!
4640. Stumbo - 8/2/2001 3:41:02 AM
4641. theDiva - 8/6/2001 3:57:17 PM
Banks
At this writing, I am listening to Far East Suite...specifically, Bluebird of Delhi.
Sublime. I thought of you.
4642. marjoribanks - 8/6/2001 6:17:30 PM
Diva,
Cool. I associate that album (a bit presumptuously) with myself too. Though my "signature" is actually 'Blue Pepper'.
I've since bought (and love) the Latin American Suit and the Afro-Eurasian Eclipse. They're wonderful compositions that hold together as well as any long-form compositions in any music, as far as I'm concerned. I'm still looking for his New Orleans Suite.
The last album mentioned has the most amazing album cover, by the way. I wish I could get a poster of it.
4643. CharlieL - 8/8/2001 9:29:12 PM
"I've since bought (and love) the Latin American Suit and the Afro-Eurasian Eclipse."
Cant we get away from clothes and cars for a little while?
4644. Cellar Door - 8/9/2001 5:42:00 PM
4645. Uzmakk - 8/9/2001 6:28:10 PM
Ondaatje, Ondaatje, Ondaatje. I hereby summon Tabouli Jones from the ether. Jones, have you heard that young Torontonian, Ron Sexsmith?
4646. Frankster - 8/9/2001 7:13:49 PM
I can't believe I missed Brian ferry and Roxy Music up in Los Angeles a few days ago.
(The Frankster places his head in his hands and begins to sob uncontrollably )
Oh, the pain. The pain.
4647. Cellar Door - 8/10/2001 12:19:49 AM
Yep.And Rufus Wainright was their opening act.
4648. Property of Jesus - 8/10/2001 12:30:23 AM
Out of focused pictures always give me a headache. Next time use faster film.
4649. Cellar Door - 8/11/2001 7:31:23 PM
Was Richard Wright killed by the C.I.A. ?
4650. CharlieL - 8/12/2001 4:42:54 PM
"Was Richard Wright killed by the CIA?"
What? Pink Floyd's Keyboard player? Shocking!
4651. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 8/13/2001 12:47:46 AM
4652. JudithAtHome - 8/13/2001 12:55:34 AM
POJ:
Out of focused pictures always give me a headache. Next time use faster film.
Judge not lest ye be judged.
4653. JudithAtHome - 8/13/2001 12:56:43 AM
Wow, Wiz...could that be your picture in the front window of that gallery? Congratulations!!
4654. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 8/13/2001 12:59:12 AM
Hey J@H!
Yes and it's a link, btw.
4655. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 8/13/2001 1:02:39 AM
Oh and thank you, of course, Judith.
I had to deliver the show in 100 degree heat & humidity and I'm grateful to be alive!
4656. Absensia - 8/13/2001 1:47:59 AM
Great work, Wiz...both the paintings and getting them done!!!
4657. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 8/13/2001 3:08:27 AM
Thanks Absensia--now for the postpartum depression!
4658. Absensia - 8/13/2001 3:28:40 AM
naw..never! Once I was in a courtroom waiting for sentencings to get over so we could get on with our case. This very young, and nervous attorney was defending a shoplifter, and arguing why she should not get any sentence. "But your honor, she's just has a child and is suffering from postnasal depression!"
But yeah, those too late second thoughts can really drive you crazy.
4659. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 8/13/2001 5:24:01 PM
Hahaha--I love it! I once heard a drunk, in a bar, say that something was an obstacle illusion.
Are you a lawyer, Abs?
4660. JudithAtHome - 8/13/2001 5:42:18 PM
When will this thread get back to normal size?
4661. JudithAtHome - 8/13/2001 5:42:45 PM
Right about now, I guess...for me, anyhow.
4662. Absensia - 8/13/2001 7:24:18 PM
Wiz, yes I am, among other things, so don't hold it against me, please. : )
4663. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 8/13/2001 7:39:34 PM
Abs- Of course not!
"When will this thread get back to normal size?"
What do you mean, "normal size," Judith?
4664. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 8/13/2001 7:40:08 PM
I'm wondering when we get our "New Look?"
4665. DJ JOE INC - 8/13/2001 8:22:58 PM
Gonna post this in both tv and here- Bravo is having a great series on the evolution of pop music in the 20the century- it is hosted by Lyle Lovett and features vintage performances and interviews with several music legends- it is on tonight at 7 p.m. eastern time on Bravo.
4666. JudithAtHome - 8/16/2001 5:07:04 PM
This is some distressing news for our museum:
Kimbell Negotiating Refund For $2.7 Million Statue
The Kimbell Art Museum is working to recover $2.7 million from a New York antiquities dealer after returning what was advertised as a rare Sumerian statue that the Kimbell bought last year, according to sources familiar with the transaction.
Museum officials would not comment on why the statue was returned.
American archaeologist John Russell, a leading expert on Near Eastern antiquities, said museums commonly return ancient artifacts to their countries of origin if the pieces have been determined to be stolen. But Russell said: "You never hear about people returning things to a dealer. That's the sort of thing that would normally stay quiet. I haven't heard about anything like this before."
This may be the end of the new directors career here in Fort Worth. Reading the article, it sounds as though in a rush to save money, an unwise decision was made....
4667. Property of Jesus - 8/16/2001 7:24:53 PM
Consider me blessed. We got to see The Crickets and The Everly Brothers in concert this week. Such wonderful music.
The Brothers did a particularly good, rockin' version of the Jimmie Rogers' classic "T for Texas, T for Tennessee."
4668. JudithAtHome - 8/16/2001 7:37:27 PM
Sounds like a good time...those guys were popoular when I was a teenager... Wake Up, Little Suzy and all that.
4669. Property of Jesus - 8/16/2001 8:25:46 PM
What surprised me was how good the Crickets sounded, especially Sonny Curtis their lead singer/guitarist.
Such bad luck for them after Buddy Holly died. But they are still three musicians "Not Fading Away."
4670. arkymalarky - 8/16/2001 10:01:06 PM
Bye-bye VanHalen cartoon!
4671. desertlily - 8/18/2001 6:42:53 PM
For anyone here who might be interested:
The dialogue is titled, "Building Art".
4672. desertlily - 8/18/2001 6:47:29 PM
OK....before he word "is" and after the word "interested", I had posted the link for "Artforum-dot-Com".
What do you have to do here that I obviously didn't now about, to get a link to show up as one?
4673. desertlily - 8/18/2001 7:00:34 PM
4674. desertlily - 8/18/2001 7:02:29 PM
that didn't work either - fck it.
4675. JudithAtHome - 8/18/2001 7:11:17 PM
desertlily:
On the front page on the righthand side in the yellow bar is a link to HTML Hints...hit it and there ya go! There's also a thread called HTML Scratchpad where you can practice....
4676. desertlily - 8/18/2001 8:28:40 PM
Thanks for the "scratchpad" info, Judith. I didn't know about that.
I'm off to "scratch" some...I read the other instructions but they told me nothing - they're very badly done - they must be, because I've never before posted a link that failed to either work or materialize, without being able to correct this with the help of a site's info about how their system works.
4677. JudithAtHome - 8/18/2001 8:30:20 PM
Well, I didn't write 'em, just know where they are!
4678. desertlily - 8/18/2001 8:33:26 PM
Sorry. I didn't mean be hurtful. Honest.
4679. JudithAtHome - 8/18/2001 8:35:14 PM
Oh, I didn't take it that way at all...in fact, I almost added a little :-) to my post above.
4680. JudithAtHome - 8/18/2001 8:39:08 PM
Desertlily:
Last week, we had a small "discussionette" about Phillip Johnson and his work in the TV: The Little Screen thread, if you're interested in architecture.
4681. desertlily - 8/18/2001 8:45:10 PM
I'm very contemptuous of the few US + EU architects whose work I know, Judy, but I'll go take a look. Thanks.
4682. JudithAtHome - 8/18/2001 8:47:17 PM
I'm not thrilled with a lot that I see passing for good work these days, myself...those buildings which look like melting cakes or battered boxes which have been crushed.
4683. desertlily - 8/18/2001 9:36:36 PM
Somebody in another forum (I forget where) said that the Bilbao Gehry looks like "A B-52 practicing yoga".
I've been giggling about that brilliantly-conceived imagery for several days now!
On my way back here from that micro-mini "TV" conversation about Philip Johnson, I passed through a place where they had the first picture of Gehry's model for the O'Keefe Museum in Biloxi - totally unimaginitive trash!
I try not to care.
Sometimes, I succeed....sometimes, I don't.
4684. wabbit - 8/19/2001 1:06:51 AM
desertlily,
You can write a link like this:
<a href="http://artforum.com" target="new">
Art Forum</a>
<HTTP: artforum.com>
<A href="http://artforum.com" a <>
4685. desertlily - 8/19/2001 5:34:05 AM
Wabbit.....thanks.
The only way my brain remembers stuff, is when I understand what I'm doing, so would you do me a really big favor and explain the "why" of "target=new" and repeating "art forum" at the end?
4686. joezan - 8/19/2001 5:40:48 AM
desertlily:
The first artforum is the actual url you're linking to. The second one identifies for your audience what you are linking to, but is totally optional. You could, for instance, just as well type there, Here is a really good art site, and that is what will show up undermined in red when you post.
4687. joezan - 8/19/2001 5:41:49 AM
uhhh...that's ...underlined, not undermined.
4688. wabbit - 8/19/2001 5:59:15 AM
desertlily,
Most HTML tags come in two parts, an opening and a closing tag, enclosed in carats. The tag in this case is an Anchor tag. Then you have attributes and values, written attribute="value", hence href="http://artforum.com" and target="new". The target attribute here tells the browser to open the link in a new browser window. The target is optional, but it's a nice attribute to use because it means you can look at the link without actually leaving the thread. The browser knows not to display information enclosed in carats, but whatever is between the opening and closing tags will be displayed according to the HTML tag by which it is surrounded. In this case, the text between the opening and closing tags comprises a link. So,
<a href="http://artforum.com" target="new">Art Forum</a>looks like Art Forum.
4689. desertlily - 8/19/2001 5:59:59 AM
but "undermined" was more interesting
thanks
4690. desertlily - 8/19/2001 7:01:00 AM
I did it! I did it! artforum
4691. JudithAtHome - 8/20/2001 7:29:53 PM
Kim Stanley...RIP
4692. marjoribanks - 8/20/2001 7:33:20 PM
I went to a wonderful day-long concert in Brooklyn's Prospect Park on Sunday. The headliner was Senegal's kicking Baba Maal, but the whole line-up was intriguing.
A photo:
4693. marjoribanks - 8/20/2001 7:35:36 PM
Here's a shot of some other concertgoers. I took it because they exemplify the cliche of Manhattanite culture vultures - look at how they're all wearing black, look at the way the dude is sitting.
4694. marjoribanks - 8/20/2001 7:36:49 PM
A more representative shot of the scene:
4695. don s. - 8/20/2001 9:24:57 PM
totally unimaginative trash:
click to see larger picture
desertlily, are you the same person who whined endlessly on TableTalk that most TV was totally unimaginative trash? Glad to see your mind is equally narrow on all subjects.
4696. janjon - 8/20/2001 9:40:52 PM
Which Gehry project is that one?
4697. don s. - 8/21/2001 6:48:43 PM
The Ohr-O'Keefe Museum of Art, Biloxi, Mississippi
4698. JudithAtHome - 8/21/2001 6:51:52 PM
God, that is absolutely awful...what are those silver trash bags in the middle? Is this supposed to house Georgia O'Keefe works or is it named for someone else, like some dumb guy named O'Keefe who thinks that is a good plan for a museum?
4699. don s. - 8/21/2001 6:56:08 PM
sigh
4700. JudithAtHome - 8/21/2001 6:58:23 PM
Well, sorry, Don but I happen to think it looks goofy. Philistine that I am....
I've been around long enogh to see buildings that were designed to be cutting edge and the "thing of the future" end up looking like huge mistakes 20 years down the road.
4701. JudithAtHome - 8/21/2001 7:01:00 PM
Okay, I just read the link...I still don't care for it.
4702. don s. - 8/21/2001 7:02:28 PM
Yeah, they just don't use enough dorian columns these days.
4703. JudithAtHome - 8/21/2001 7:05:21 PM
Okay, you enjoy it all you want...give me the doric columns and all the boring buildings they are attached to.
4704. janjon - 8/21/2001 10:20:36 PM
cool. I suspect, however, that the good citizens of Biloxi are, um, mixed in their reactions.
Ah well, they'll get over it. All those visions of the tourist $$$$$ that the building will attract. A Baby Bilbao!!!!!!
4705. desertlily - 8/21/2001 10:30:50 PM
don s.
....and a "friendly hello" to you too.
4706. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 8/21/2001 10:32:43 PM
[Wondering if the combination of Doric and Ionian/Corinthian was intentional? If so, it was amusing!]
Gehry will be doing the NEW Connecticut Historical Society in Hartford which is in somewhat of a slum area. Is titanium graffiti-proof?
4707. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 8/21/2001 10:33:44 PM
BTW, I enjoyed those pic/posts, Marj!
4708. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 8/21/2001 10:36:01 PM
I spent six months in the Air Force in Biloxi , it must be a museum on the history of lynching!
4709. desertlily - 8/21/2001 10:37:55 PM
I spent months on an architecture thread lashing into Gehry's contortions.
Then, one day, I decided that I was glad he is producing them. Not because they have any merit, but because they're smashing the walls of the establishment, thereby opening the world for future architects who possess genuine professional genius.
4710. don s. - 8/22/2001 1:13:28 AM
[Nah. Just a slip. Maybe, since this is primarily the music thread, I was thinking of the mode that starts on the second tone of the diatonic scale.]
4711. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 8/22/2001 6:03:38 PM
After perusing the Biloxi maquettes, it seems that Gehry is making the same mistake that was made by Oscar Niemeyer in Brazil and Frank Lloyd Wright here--namely, trying to be sculptors and forgetting that painters exhibit in these spaces.
The Gugg is an awful place to exhibit paintings and I remember feeling like a bug in a an organic humidor in every Niemeyer building I visited in Brasilia. . . and where the Vice Presidential Palace that he designed was, literally, an uninhabitable structure.
Here a some examples of Niemeyer and you can see how important the WOW factor was for him. 
4712. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 6:28:08 PM
Wiz:
I saw 2 maquettes last night of future bronzes by my friend the sculptor...a sleeping panther and an forest denizen, the Green Man, made up entirely of leaves and twigs. He's going to use some of the different leaf shapes from our yard on the guy...the mans hands are 5 lobed leaves.
4713. desertlily - 8/22/2001 11:59:15 PM
I don't know this Niemeyer guy, but I kinda like these 2 examples of his work. Too bad they're no good on the inside.
A bright orange bowl looks fabulous in a photograph, but makes me wonder what it would be like as part of a city's sky-line?
4714. Erinys - 8/23/2001 5:48:56 AM
I like the lines of those silver Gehry buildings - reminds me of a vase I have. But walking around in one of them as a building, I don't know about. I do see they have skylights built into the top, so at least there's some natural light.
Doesn't look too handicapped accessible in the shoofly gazebo, and I don't like the yellowish shade of concrete - I'd put more red in it. I think that would mix better with all the silver. Stark gray concrete would be too bland.
I wouldn't even want to set foot in that top Niemeyer. Ugh. It looks like a big concrete anthill.
4715. joezan - 8/23/2001 7:10:00 AM
There's a nuclear power plant about 100 miles south of here. That first Niemeyer looks very much like its towers.
4716. desertlily - 8/23/2001 7:29:25 AM
I read up on Oscar Niemeyer, earlier today. Quite an amazing and incredibly accomplished Brazilian architect who collaborated or was taught by Corbusier. He built some beautiful stuff, yet strangely enough, even though I saw pictures of most of it this morning, I can't remember a single thing about it, which must mean that he didn't have a signature style.
4717. desertlily - 8/23/2001 7:34:20 AM
Gehry, let's face it, is the quintessential Emperor without clothes.....sorry, I can't seem to keep my mouth shut whenever I see his name.....just ignore me, OK?
4718. desertlily - 8/23/2001 7:40:01 AM
Yes, Joesan, you're so correct.....but Niemeyer built "his" powerplant before the nuclear one, I believe. Assuming he's alive, he must be almost 100 years old now?
4719. Erinys - 8/23/2001 3:52:37 PM
desertlily, that Niemeyer concrete dropping looks so uninviting to me - stark & bare....now that's a true Emperor without clothes!
I could see myself meandering around the Gehry museum a lot more readily. Also, I have to drive by enough ugly concrete industrial-looking buildings each day; the Gehry would at least be something a bit more pleasant on the eyes than the powerplant. Unless, of course, all that silver blinded me when the sun hit a certain angle.
The Niemeyer orange bowl looks like big fun for skateboarders. The photo's a bit dark to see what the underlying building is like.
I started reading your link to the artforum 'Bilbao effect' piece last night, and got lost in laughter on the first page from a comment - something in the vein of, "enough of us have been oppressed by architecture." It was agreeable laughter, but I was tired. I'll have to finish it later.
Judith, I meant to ask about your #4691 - Kim Stanley...RIP?
He just died? I had no idea.
4720. JudithAtHome - 8/23/2001 4:01:31 PM
Kim Stanley died last week...and she was a dynamite actress; wish I'd seen her on stage just once.
4721. Erinys - 8/23/2001 4:02:26 PM
Oh! I thought you were talking about an author.
4722. desertlily - 8/25/2001 2:54:44 AM
I just completed the most perfect art I have ever made and in doing so, propelled my work into the 21st Century.
Sorry.....I'm so incredibly happy and peaceful about this, that I had to tell someone....anyone.
Thanks.
:-)
4723. arkymalarky - 8/25/2001 3:20:33 AM
Congratulations, Desertlily! You ought to find a way to post it like Wiz does so we can have a look!
4724. JudithAtHome - 8/25/2001 7:08:06 PM
Singer Dead at 22 In Plane Crash
4725. Frankster - 8/25/2001 10:35:44 PM
Judith -- Put about 15 pounds on Aaliyah and you have my little sister. I was devastated when I heard the news last night. I never saw the movie she starred in, but I did buy her music CD while in Paris and have always been absolutely entralled by her beautifully choreographed video to "Try Again", her big hit.
The news last night said the pilot reportedly told her entourage to leave some baggage behind because the plane at that point was already over capacity for the type of plane they were flying. They reportedly refused. We'll see what the investigation yields.
So young. How incredibly tragic.
... I'm playing her CD now as I type.
...And, if you first don't succeed
( Try again )
you can dust it off and try again
( Try again )
Dust yourself off and try again...
4726. CharlieL - 8/26/2001 10:10:54 PM
Wiz - About the second pic in #4711. I would build a big rectangular building next to it, painted to look like a box of raisin bran, and a huge silo designed to look like a milk bottle next to it on the other side.
4727. don s. - 8/26/2001 10:12:49 PM
Yes, and then the Brazilian federal complex could be part of a complete breakfast.
It's the most important meal of the day, you know. Even south of the equator!
4728. racehorse - 8/27/2001 1:00:21 AM
I was also devastated by the news of Aaliyah's death. So, so sad.
4729. CharlieL - 8/27/2001 5:49:46 PM
No, Don, south of the Equator, breakfast is dinner, and it ain't so important.
4730. rubberducky - 8/28/2001 6:03:45 PM
This just in: people listen to CDs!
The survey of 4000 adults on the Internet found that nearly 50 percent of those polled listened to CDs on their PCs; whereas only 25 percent listen to music downloads from the Internet on their PCs.
In the same GarterG2 survey, it was reported that only 6 percent of the same demographic purchased digital music downloads in the last 3 months.
...
The report reflects a contrarian view to many other research reports projecting huge spikes in online music sales in coming years.
The report said that in order for the digital music revolution to become viable, the "Big 5" record labels, including Vivendi Universal's (EAUG) Universal Music, Sony Music (6758), AOL Time Warner Inc. (AOL) Warner Music, EMI Group Plc (EMI) and Bertelsmann AG's (BTGGga) BMG must agree to a standard platform for digital music distribution.
As each label struggles to find 'the right' digital rights management (DRM) solution, they are simultaneously alienating their consumers and stalling the economics of the proposition, according to the GartnerG2 report.
"Digital distribution needs to be brain-dead simple for consumers, and any DRM solution deployed should work with all music software and hardware. In order for this to happen, the Big 5 need to work together, and that doesn't look hopeful before 2002," McNealy said.
4731. JudithAtHome - 8/30/2001 7:20:32 PM
Saturday evening we're going to see Prisoner of Second Avenue at the local playhouse. The review stated it has been "freshened", whatever that means. At this particular theatre, Keoni and I have been asked to be judges for each production (along with others) and our votes will be tallied at the end of the season and the winners will be presented Willie awards at a big celebration. The Willies are named for a local actor who headed the theatre for about 30 years; his name was William Garber.
4732. Indiana Jones - 8/31/2001 9:54:27 PM
4733. joezan - 9/1/2001 1:54:54 PM
...
The road to romance has been rocky for the popular duo, who both claim to be virgins, sources reveal...
...The couple, who have been living together in Britney's home in Hollywood for months...
Uh-huh.
I mean, it could happen. They're both very busy people, and probably hardly ever have 10 minutes together. Right?
4734. Cellar Door - 9/1/2001 5:55:57 PM
Sure.
Moreover I don't believe either of them have genitalia.
4735. PelleNilsson - 9/1/2001 6:22:50 PM
joezan
Such cynicism confronted by beautiful young celibate love. What has life done to you?
4736. don s. - 9/2/2001 12:10:38 AM
Here's a fun exchange from "Announcements" thread in Ausitn (philistine's) TT arts refuge at worldcrossing.com, which he has called "Tabletalk artsy farts."
Desertlily - Aug 5, 2001 4:57 pm (#8 of 32)
Austin - as a lifelong creator to whom the arts are everything worth living for, I deeply resent the contempt implied in the words "artsy farts" and would like to ask that you change them to a simple "Arts"?
Thank you, for your attention to this matter. By the way: do we kow each other?
Austin 'M.F.' - Aug 5, 2001 5:29 pm (#9 of 32)
Desertlily -
Perhaps we do know one another - I called myself Milton Fazoo at TableTalk.
As for "Artsy Farts" - I'll keep it for now. It is my belief that pretension kills what is worthwhile in the arts, and that the most important things must be taken lightly. I have no contempt for the arts or most artists, although I admit I hold folks who cannot laugh at themselves in contempt.
Desertlily - Aug 6, 2001 2:35 pm (#15 of 32)
... I don't think we know each other, Fazoo, but it really surprises me that you won't change the thread title. It makes me assume that you neither understand, have knowledge of, nor appreciate the arts. So be it. My choice is to not come back here.
Your loss.
4737. don s. - 9/2/2001 12:11:51 AM
if you're lurking, Austin, sorry about the typos in your name, above
4738. arkymalarky - 9/2/2001 12:43:48 AM
Tell Phil hello. I'll have to check out his thread, though I'm not artsy. Maybe I'll fit in on the fartsy side.
4739. don s. - 9/2/2001 12:46:28 AM
As long as it's not contemptuous.
4740. arkymalarky - 9/2/2001 12:52:17 AM
Actually, the quality of the fartsy might put me on the artsy side.
4741. JudithAtHome - 9/2/2001 12:53:34 AM
I just checked it out...pretty cool site.
4742. arkymalarky - 9/2/2001 12:55:39 AM
I did too and I agree. Nice variety of thread topics.
4743. joezan - 9/2/2001 5:56:20 AM
Tonight was the final night of the summer Worship On The Waterfront series in Grand Haven. It featured this excellent big band from our sister church, Holland Central Wesleyan:
Besides the praise music, they also did superb renditions of many Big Band classics - Pennsylvania 6-5000, Begin the Beguine, In the Mood, Sing, Sing, Sing, etc.
One thing I've noticed - teenagers nowadays are a lot more open to other, older types of music than I've ever noticed before. While these concerts are going on, there are thousands of people going back and forth along the boardwalk (the foot traffic is diverted around the stage and bleachers), and you'd think the kids would give this kind of thing a wide berth. But it drew them like flies, and many of them actually stuck around - even through the preaching - to hear the band.
4744. joezan - 9/2/2001 6:02:18 AM
Another shot...
4745. JudithAtHome - 9/2/2001 3:21:17 PM
Joezan:
We go to Big Band concerts a lot during the winter...there's a dance band every first Friday of the month at this old hall here in town...and the neatest thing about it is seeing the young kids come out and dance to this stuff. They dress in 40s style, with many of the guys wearing vintage military uniforms.
I think great music transcends age...
4746. joezan - 9/2/2001 3:50:02 PM
That's pretty cool, Judith. They do the same thing here at the American Legion hall. We checked that out once, but the crowd was very, uh....geriatric. Most were from local rest homes.
This concert was great because the sound could not be avoided. There is a core of probably 200 or so locals that usually attend the Sunday night service at the waterfront, mixed with another couple hundred tourists. They always have some kind of musical group, but it's usually pretty churchy even when it's more contemporary, and you hardly ever see stragglers come by once the service begins.
Last night, though, even the Christian Reformed minister was obviously impressed - he said that in the 5 years he's done these services, this was by far the biggest crowd he's seen - he estimated it at over 2,000.
But it only struck me (the thing about the teens) because I'd noticed the same thing when I went to see the Peruvian and Celtic groups in the park.
No way you would've seen teens digging that kind of stuff when I was a kid.
4747. JudithAtHome - 9/2/2001 4:38:21 PM
Joe:
The crowds at the place we go have some oldsters but mainly it's middle aged yuppies and teenagers...those of us who are older still enjoy it, though! ;-)
4748. Absensia - 9/2/2001 5:31:24 PM
Joezan:
Had Peruvians even been discovered when you were a kid? Did South American even exist when you were a kid?
4749. Cellar Door - 9/2/2001 6:19:12 PM
As everyone knows, South America was founded by Carmen Miranda in the mid 1940's.
4750. desertlily - 9/2/2001 9:15:39 PM
What's your purpose in dragging this overhere like a cat dragging in dead birds?
4751. desertlily - 9/2/2001 9:18:35 PM
Sorry....that was directed at "don s" who seems to be obsessed by my presence on this earth even though I have no idea who HE is.
4752. Property of Jesus - 9/2/2001 11:01:25 PM
I think I finally understand MTV.
You have to watch it with the audio down real low. I mean real low. But its visuals are striking. It's just "the music" and conversation that's lousy.
I can understand white trash teens liking it, but don't blacks have better taste in music?
Just last week we tried to get tickets to see Jamaica legends, "Toots and the Maytals" at Hilton Head Island in SC, but it was sold out. We drove by the club to see if we could get tickets there--but it was as crowded as I've ever seen the street. Mostly black people.
But back to the dominant culture. MTV is promoting something called the Music Video Awards, and the comedian (is he also a singer?) is seen in commercials fornicating with sheep. I guess that's new and different for cable.
4753. JudithAtHome - 9/2/2001 11:05:44 PM
If it offends thine eyes, turn the station...
4754. Absensia - 9/2/2001 11:15:43 PM
CD:
No, only Carmen's banana headdress was founded then. She'd been around a lot longer. In a prior incarnation she had been ChicatabananaCleo, a close friend of Cleopatra.
4755. Erinys - 9/2/2001 11:56:57 PM
rubberducky #4730, yeah, I'm sticking with CDs a while longer because it's all just in a state of confusion right now. MP3 players still force you to a small memory limit. I kept my 8-track way longer than most. I did make the jump to CDs pretty quickly, though, once my local music store expanded to (gasp) 2 racks of CDs.
Why do you think it will take 10 years to sort out, though?
joezan, I've always loved 40s Big Bands. I remember dancing with my mom to some of the ones you mentioned (Begin the Beguine, In the Mood) but Little Brown Jug was our favorite.
Cellar Door & Absensia, heh. South America is just one big banana plantation. I remember being stunned when I was down there and one of the locals drove me through a part of town and was pointing out the colonial architecture. But...but... that's nothing like New England!
4756. Absensia - 9/3/2001 12:34:25 AM
Drats Erinys, now I can't get the Banana Boat Song out of my mind:
Come mister tally man tally me banana
Daylight come an' I wanna go home
Come mister tally man tally me banana
Daylight come an' I wanna go home
Day-oh Day-oh Daylight come an' I wanna go home
Day-oh Day-oh Daylight come an' I wanna go home
4757. EricCartman - 9/3/2001 1:41:16 AM
PoJ Message # 4752:
MTV has pretty much ruined pop/rock music.(duh) Thanks to "icons" like Michael Jackson and Madonna, "music" is now so much more than just sounds in a certain order.
I like Madonna's new kilt; it takes me back to 1991, when Axl Rose was wearing one. Too bad her penchant for servicing the NBA didn't bug people as much as MJ's love for preteen boys. Two dead careers, in this case, would be so much better than one.
All the navel-gazing over the untimely demise of Aaaahllayaaah (or whatever) has got me crossing my fingers and hoping that maybe Madonna will finally get her small-plane license, and invite Ricky Martin and N*Stink on vacation in the middle of the Bermuda Triangle.
Oh sure, there'd be the usual "tributes" from the idiot fringe for 6 weeks or so, but it'd be worth it.
Anyway....does MTV even show videos anymore? I thought it was mostly Road Rules marathons, and various shows featuring teenagers who apparently grew up eating lead paint chips.
4758. Erinys - 9/3/2001 2:30:31 AM
So what kind of music would you like to see on MTV, EricCartman & Property of Jesus?
Haven't watched it in a while, but it was all about some spring break thing and they weren't really playing any videos, so I hear you on that.
I don't know that Banana boat song, Absensia. Let's see....we could replace that with a different song going through your head..."the hills are alive with the sound of music."
I love dancing to Madonna esp Into the Groove, Lucky Star and Open Your Heart.
I don't know that Banana boat song.
I love dancing to Madonna esp Into the Groove, Lucky Star and Open Your Heart.
4759. Erinys - 9/3/2001 2:32:03 AM
What the hecK? I like Madonna, but not double much.
4760. EricCartman - 9/3/2001 3:12:50 AM
Erinys:
So what kind of music would you like to see on MTV?
Eh, I don't know. I don't have any specific requests per se, just a general distaste for how MTV tends to distill music down to just another fashion accessory.
I guess most of what I like tends to be stuff that you can just sit down with a pair of headphones and listen to. Obviously, this sort of thing is useless to MTV, since they're there to help the kids accessorize their love songs with various trinkets to fondle and fetish, thereby sharing the love.
But I do catch a little MTV2 here and there, since they actually show music videos, and I like some of the newer punk-type bands. Some decent stuff, played by ugly kids with T-shirts, tattoos, guitars, and lots of energy -- the way God intended it. One of them, called "Alien Ant Farm" (I think, not 100% sure) had a video spoofing many of Michael Jackson's more obnoxious affectations, and the song was actually decent to boot.
4761. EricCartman - 9/3/2001 3:17:06 AM
Yeah, it was Alien Ant Farm, but I can't recall the name of the song. There was another one by a punk band called "Sum 41" that had a sense of humor, too. The video closed with a coda spoofing the hair-metal bands of the 80's (Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, etc.), with the band dressed up like one of those cheesy LA-scene groups.
Sad to say, even that small effort is worth noting, against that relentlessly-marketed canned stuff, the "Destiny's Child" assembly-line stuff that's everywhere.
4762. arkymalarky - 9/3/2001 3:28:54 AM
I actually like Madonna too, though I don't own a single album, and I've always really really wanted to dislike her. Since I've already confessed to liking some of the Carpenters, and particularly Karen Carpenter's voice, and old Melanie (not the old lady, but her old music), I guess I don't have much of a musical rep to protect, anyway.
4763. arkymalarky - 9/3/2001 3:30:50 AM
I detest MTV. I can be sailing by heading for something...anything...else and get annoyed in the time it takes to go by the channel. On rare occasions I pause long enough to torture myself.
4764. Erinys - 9/3/2001 4:07:34 AM
T-shirts, tattoos, guitars
These are fashion accessories, too! Just pandering to a different market segment.
Well. MTV would be pretty boring if it were all headphone-type music; useless, as you say. If it's got choreography & outlandish costumes, I like it. The ones where people walk/drive around scowling, looking tough, get old really quickly.
The hair-band spoofs sound funny. I'd probably like that, too.
arky, I remember you talking about pulling out an old Melanie album for the big shindig you had (was it last month?) Only song of hers I know is Brand New Key.
Er, I bought a Modonna video and FuryBoy (6 yrs old) and I dance to that sometimes. Also Paula Abdul, Michael Jackson...what are some other good dance videos?
4765. EricCartman - 9/3/2001 6:16:18 AM
These are fashion accessories, too! Just pandering to a different market segment.
Uh, yes and no. Guitars are not a fashion statement -- people called "musicians" actually spend a couple of hours learning how to "play" them, so they can "write" things called "songs".
I guess tattoos and various piercings are basically just a different sort of fashion accoutrement, but that's not what I was getting at. I meant that I'd much rather see a bunch of kids in street clothes, playing their own songs on actual instruments, putting something out there that they invested their time, effort, and ability in.
Even done ineptly, it's much more true to the spirit than watching, say, Ricky Martin or Britney Spears lip-sync to songs that they didn't write, can't play, and don't actually perform. It's like professional karaoke.
4766. EricCartman - 9/3/2001 6:17:05 AM
MTV would be pretty boring if it were all headphone-type music; useless, as you say. If it's got choreography & outlandish costumes, I like it. The ones where people walk/drive around scowling, looking tough, get old really quickly.
Definitely. I totally agree with all of this. As long as there's some energy and originality and actual talent, I don't care about the visual stuff that much. It just seems that MTV prefers to mass-market this disposable, canned McMusic-type product, usually with the aim of selling something else. And between the crummy music and the brain-dead filler, MTV is pretty boring these days, unless you're in 10th grade.
But that's what MTV can never admit -- really good music doesn't need any extra visual stimuli. Frank Zappa said it best: "How many times can you watch a music video -- ten? fifteen? Thirty, if you're a vegetable. And then it's old. But a great song -- you can listen to it a hundred times, and it's still a great song."
4767. EricCartman - 9/3/2001 6:25:35 AM
BTW, this got me to thinking about some of Madonna's early songs, and how there were some really catchy tunes there. But she's done absolutely nothing interesting musically in 15 years, and she's such an insufferable pain-in-the-ass as a person it negates even her early stuff.
And every single album/tour it's the same damned thing -- the annual image change. It's beyond old. She's rapidly degenerating into this generation's Streisand -- a homely, obnoxious broad who isn't nearly as talented as her PR people tell her she is.
I'll tell ya a band I'm really happy to see trying to mount a bit of a comeback -- Earth, Wind & Fire. Fantastic songs, great showmanship, solid dance music, the whole nine yards. I loved these guys when I was a kid, and it's cool to hear them again. Now if only Bootsy Collins could get a higher profile, that would be great.
4768. PelleNilsson - 9/3/2001 6:33:54 AM
Hi Eric, long time. How's the kid?
4769. EricCartman - 9/3/2001 6:56:25 AM
Hi Pelle. Family's doing wonderful, thanks. I wouldn't have said this ten years ago, or even five, but I kinda like this family guy thing. Fatherhood suits me well.
How's by you?
4770. Frankster - 9/3/2001 7:27:20 AM
Eric! Welcome back from the world of Pampers, fella. I'm glad to hear fatherhood is suiting you so well. I knew it would! I'm happy for you.
I actually thought Aaliyah was an anomoly of today's music scene, in that she didn't rely on studio engineering to create her voice ( Janet Jackson for instance ), nor did she need to engage in misogyny, cursing ( "Bitch this, Bitch that..."), or quasi-epileptic street gyrating scowling confrontational videos, which she trumped instead with some tasteful, mesmerizing choreography.
...My God, am I on the diamondlane to becoming a social Conservative, or what ?! Somebody shoot me. ;-)
Erinys,
I'm sticking with CDs as long as I can also. The nascent MP3 technology that exists out there today has yet to make its appearance in this livingroom, and I'm going to hold out as long as I can.
...
Gonna dress you up in my love
(All over your body)
Gonna dress you up in my love
Dress you up in my love
(All over, all over)...dress you up in my love
That is my fav Madonna video, and song. We have to go out dancing sometime, Erin. That is, if your hubby doesn't mind ? ;-)
Continued:
4771. Frankster - 9/3/2001 7:28:35 AM
... There was an interesting article in local rag's Art section today about how the artists of today are basically groomed by record companies for short shelf life ( Surprise!). That is, disposable, ala Shick razors. Staying power isn't something record companies shoot for anymore as the fast buck takes precedence. Here's a short quote from it:
...To build a career with staying power, musicians need time. Time to nurture a broad fan base.Time to develop stage presence, musical chops, and a road warrior's endurance ... But why give an artist the chance to mature over a few albums, when you can back a band that will sell 4 million or 5 million albums right now ? Why not just sign another boy band ? Or a new Brittany ? Or a few more faceless hiphop crews ? And why build audience loyalty when you can encourage young, fickle fans to buy new versions of the same old disposable thing ?
Mergers have left radio stations in the hands of corporations that keep the playlists narrow, making it harder for forward-thinking disc jockeys to break new bands. MTV is playing fewer videos each year, high CD and concert-tickets prices discourage experimentation, and media drenched audiences are more distracted than ever. And for artists who manage to deliver the huge numbers, anything less than a multimillion-selling follow-up will be seen as a sign of bigtime failure...
I basically play whatever I'm in the mood for at the moment, and rarely is it anything current. Many times my CD turntable might have any of the following in it with it set to shuffle: Jack Jones, Human League, an R&B compilation, Three Dog Night and Al Green. Other times I might have it set up for one genre, such as R&B, or maybe 80s techno bands such as Talk Talk and Heaven 17... It depends on how I'm feeling at the moment.
4772. Frankster - 9/3/2001 7:29:25 AM
...I'm not even going to comment on MTV, being that I haven't seen it regularly for some 15 or 16 years. They, the videos, were still breaking new ground back then in one form or another, and without all the scowling and confrontation.
4773. EricCartman - 9/3/2001 8:30:30 AM
Hey Frank, how are ya, bud?
From what little I've seen/heard of Aaliyah, I really can't make an honest call. Seemed like another J. Lo deal to me, but since I can't dance to save my life, dance music is obviously not my métier. So I dunno.
The Art section quote you reprinted is, of course, spot on. And obviously it's nothing new -- it's how popular music was made and mass-marketed before the mid-'60s. Pay a couple of down-and-out studio hacks on the cheap to crank out a serviceable tune, pay a couple of session guys to record it, put a pretty face on it to sell it (Elvis, Pat Boone, whatever) and there ya go. The only money you gotta spend is in distribution and promotion.
The '60s and '70s fucked record companies up, because fans realized that music from self-contained bands that played instruments and wrote about real life was better than Pat Boone singing Tutti Frutti. But using actual musicians narrows the profit margin. So no good.
4774. EricCartman - 9/3/2001 8:37:15 AM
With the current resurgence in prefab music, there are a couple of factors in the record companies' favor that they couldn't have dreamed about 40 years ago.
4775. EricCartman - 9/3/2001 8:39:53 AM
People like what they like, and it's not totally fair to just dump on them for that. Everyone has their own taste. My contention is that heavy-rotation narrowcasting has drastically limited the diversity of what people get exposed to in the first place.
When I was a little kid, AM radio was a treasure trove of music. On a given station, you could hear the Beach Boys, Deep Purple, Al Green, the Stones, Johnny Cash -- all great artists, all very different -- within an hour. FM was even more out there, especially in LA.
Nowadays, AM is all politcal demagoguery and talk-radio horseshit, and FM has devolved into niche-marketed repetition. And people have to like something, so if all they get is repetitive crap, they'll learn to like repetitive crap.
It's too bad, 'cause there's some garage band out there right now that's re-inventing the wheel, but you'll never hear them because they aren't pretty enough. That sucks.
4776. EricCartman - 9/3/2001 8:40:32 AM
Damn, it feels good to flex that soapbox muscle again. It's been a while.
4777. Erinys - 9/3/2001 8:41:00 AM
Oh, that Zappa was a clever fella, Eric, but you and Frank might not like the dancing as much as some of us. Good music may not need any visuals, but dance sure needs music. Maybe you'd get the screaming meemies looking at the same video 30 times, but that doesn't need to apply to everyone. Some people go see the Nutcracker every holiday season. Now, I'm not comparing MTV to ballet, I'm just saying, for some people, the visuals are the main attraction.
That's why I asked you what you'd want to see on MTV - videos of earnest kids in street clothes playing their instruments are all very fine, but who can watch that 30 times? (winky - you said you could)
It's great when it can all come together - good music and good visuals. We both agree on that. All I can remember of EW&F is September, but I don't think I ever saw one of their videos.
Madonna's last cowboy look - eh, now she's just going to change hats every time on us, cause the hair's been done. It was lots of fun at first, though, to see what she'd come up with, though, wasn't it?
I still maintain guitars are fashion statements. Musicians who want to be considered serious usually get highly polished, solid-colored ones and special attention is paid to the brand... they can go on about their Gibsons and Fenders at length.
4778. Erinys - 9/3/2001 8:45:57 AM
Ah, I type too slow. I was responding to 4765-4767. I'll catch up with these newer posts another day.
4779. EricCartman - 9/3/2001 9:08:45 AM
Good music may not need any visuals, but dance sure needs music.
Well, duh. You'd look darn foolish dancing to no music, wouldn't you?
Maybe you'd get the screaming meemies looking at the same video 30 times, but that doesn't need to apply to everyone. Some people go see the Nutcracker every holiday season.
There's a big difference between watching the same movie/ballet once a year for 30 years, and watching the same music video on heavy rotation 30 times in a couple of weeks, no?
Now, I'm not comparing MTV to ballet, I'm just saying, for some people, the visuals are the main attraction.
That's fine. But at the risk of sounding like Truman Capote, that's not music, that's a music video.
All I can remember of EW&F is September, but I don't think I ever saw one of their videos.
I doubt they ever did any videos at all. Yet they still put out some great music. That would be impossible for them to do nowadays, unless they found the right visual gimmick to keep you occupied.
Madonna's last cowboy look - eh, now she's just going to change hats every time on us, cause the hair's been done. It was lots of fun at first, though, to see what she'd come up with, though, wasn't it?
No. It's like watching a silly, narcissistic high-school girl practice writing her name over and over and over again -- trying different spellings, appending the quarterback's surname to her own, silly-ass shit like that. It's boring and self-indulgent, and again has squat to do with creating music.
4780. EricCartman - 9/3/2001 9:12:07 AM
I still maintain guitars are fashion statements. Musicians who want to be considered serious usually get highly polished, solid-colored ones and special attention is paid to the brand... they can go on about their Gibsons and Fenders at length.
Yes, there is a great deal of fetishism among guitar players, who tend to be pretty self-absorbed themselves. But that is a natural result of spending countless hours by yourself, learning how to play an instrument. Any good musician, be they drummer or pianist or whatever, will find technical points to obsess and get precious about. This is part of acquiring an actual skill. Playing an instrument is a skill. Changing one's clothes is not a skill.
As for going on about Gibsons and Fenders....sorry, but they are very different. Go to your nearest guitar shop, and play a Les Paul, then a Stratocaster. They don't just look different, they sound different, they feel different, they play different. Hell, a good player will find nuances and differences between two of the same model. They're like cars in that regard -- the differences are very much there, if one cares enough to pay attention. And that, in turn, will greatly affect how and what you play.
Look, all I'm saying is that music -- real, actual, creative music -- is a craft. Making a video is also a craft, but a different one. When the focus is so heavily shifted towards one craft, the other craft suffers. There's nothing wrong with eating at Burger King every so often, but there's nothing like an actual meal prepared by someone who can cook.
4781. EricCartman - 9/3/2001 9:16:09 AM
Erinys Message # 4778:
I'll catch up with these newer posts another day.
Please do. I'm genuinely curious as to your "side" of this.
4782. EricCartman - 9/3/2001 9:24:58 AM
That's why I asked you what you'd want to see on MTV - videos of earnest kids in street clothes playing their instruments are all very fine, but who can watch that 30 times? (winky - you said you could)
Uh, no, I didn't. I said I'd much rather see a video featuring a bunch of scruffy kids in street clothes playing a song that they wrote and practiced in their own garage, than some impossibly pretty but talentless karaoke artist lip-sync and dance their way through some prefab tripe cobbled together by a hit machine and a production team.
Either way, it's a moot point -- I honestly can't think of any video I've liked enough to watch more than maybe 10-12 times overall. And even that would be an awful slim list. It just doesn't appeal to me that much -- I'd rather just listen to the song.
4783. rubberducky - 9/3/2001 4:00:16 PM
Re: Message # 4755, Erinys.
do you think it will take 10 years to sort out, though?
because the major record labels won't work together in a way that they don't perceive themselves to be ahead. i just don't see a time anytime soon when a standard will be agreed upon by them. right now, there is too much money to be made gouging their dwindling customer base.
4784. rubberducky - 9/3/2001 4:12:23 PM
Cartman:
i was disappointed to see no soapbox pronouncements when i looked in on Politics, but now i am happy with your posts here. good to have you back -- hope you stick around longer.
as for MTV, i of course agree, but one of the things that REALLY piss me off is their endless (and i mean endless) repetition of the same inane fucking clips from interviews and previous awards shows into 'new' shows every frickin' year! gawd, i was flipping thru the channels this weekend and saw the exact same shit as last year for their 'behind the 2001 MVA show' show. that's fingernails on a chalkboard to me.
4785. arkymalarky - 9/4/2001 1:42:34 AM
Man, it's good to have you back, Eric!
Erinys,
I hate that Melanie song. We have two old albums by her that I really like, but nothing of the little I've heard since then has been anything but grating. And times and places may have more to do with our enjoyment of her first two albums than we realize. Which is OK.
4786. arkymalarky - 9/4/2001 1:44:16 AM
Hello?
4787. arkymalarky - 9/4/2001 1:44:34 AM
Hello?
4788. Property of Jesus - 9/4/2001 6:00:54 AM
Maybe I'm showing my age but the best music video I ever saw were the "The TAMI SHOW", the legendary concert movie which starred everyone at Motown--to James Brown, Roger Miller, Beach Boys, Dusty Springfield and the Rolling Stones.
I also used to see film of DJ Murray the K's rock shows in New York City.
I also like the first year of Shindig on ABC, and still enjoy much of the TV music on Saturday Night Live.
I also once went to the Dick Clark Dance Show when he did his specials in NYC. I'm a pretty good dancer but, according to my mother, all she saw of me was my back.
4789. Property of Jesus - 9/4/2001 6:06:04 AM
Also, I wish I could edit that last post to remove also.
4790. Cellar Door - 9/4/2001 6:44:27 AM
That's a great film, Props! It's the centerpiece of my book Rock On Film.
What makes it, outside of the acts, is the choreography by Toni Basil -- whose lead dancer (seen boogalooing all over the place) was the Fabulous Teri Garr!
4791. EricCartman - 9/4/2001 7:56:44 AM
Ducky Message # 4784:
i was disappointed to see no soapbox pronouncements when i looked in on Politics, but now i am happy with your posts here.
Yeah, I just needed the proper impetus to kickstart my pontification cortex. Incidentally, I think some of what I wrote transfers to the modern American political arena. Especially the vertical integration part -- an enormous factor in the so-called Age of Information, or Disinformation, as it were.
I've been reading lots of Mencken and Twain lately, when I have time to read, and it seems that much of what they said boils down to a simple idea. It's an idea that applies very well to music (culture in general, really) and politics, and explains the success of both Ricky Martin and George Bush, two men who are amazingly successful in their professions, despite being entirely inept at the basic skills supposedly required.
Here's the idea: Maybe people don't always deserve what they get, but they sure as hell deserve whatever they're willing to put up with.
4792. EricCartman - 9/4/2001 7:57:45 AM
Message # 4785:
Thanks, Arky. Nice to see the old gang in fine form thus far.
4793. theDiva - 9/4/2001 2:01:20 PM
Eric
it's good to see you back. How's the baby?
4794. EricCartman - 9/5/2001 10:32:58 AM
Hi Diva, baby's doing fantastic. How's you & yours?
4795. theDiva - 9/5/2001 1:36:32 PM
Utterly peachy. E-mail me at jazzdeev@yahoo.com and I'll send you some pictures.
4796. RustlerPike - 9/5/2001 2:36:50 PM
This is great fun.
4797. Property of Jesus - 9/18/2001 6:54:51 PM
Dust my broom! What an outrage! This thread hasn't had a fresh post in more than two weeks, and no one questions the whereabouts of the alleged host.
What's the deal with JJ? Did BB take him on the road with him?
My big music news is that I just ordered (via internet) four tickets to see Bob Dylan & Band on Nov. 15 at MCI Center in DC. Tickets were $50 a piece and, thanks to floater we got them in front section, row N.
And. New CD just purchased was The Staple Singers' Greatest Hits.
Respect Yourself!
4798. arkymalarky - 9/19/2001 1:17:13 AM
Tell me if I missed anything by not going to see Dylan when he was here, PONR. I could have seen him for half that, but school was just starting and I decided not to.
4799. Property of Jesus - 9/19/2001 5:43:09 PM
Yes, Arky. I can see you in the merry old England turning down tickets at the Globe to see Billy Shakespeare perform in one of his early comedies.
Partying is such sweet sorrow.
4800. don s. - 9/19/2001 10:00:58 PM
for Property of Josella, "school" = "partying"
which explains a lot
4801. arkymalarky - 9/20/2001 3:59:06 AM
Awww, PONR, just put a sock in it and report to me after you've seen him. And be honest.
4802. Property of Jesus - 9/20/2001 4:08:09 AM
"Crude, immoral, vulgar, and senseless."
--Tolstoy (1882-1910) on Shakespeare
4803. arkymalarky - 9/20/2001 4:21:29 AM
I'm sure Shakespeare eventually got too old to play Hamlet well.
4804. Property of Jesus - 9/20/2001 3:49:50 PM
It scares me to think that your teaching our children, Malarky. Even in Arkansas.
Shakespeare never performed in his tragedies or histories. Think comedies. Like "Measure for Measure," "Much Ado About Nothing," and "A MidSummer Night's Dream."
You should read "Tales from Shakespeare" by Charles and Mary Lamb.
And our bard, Bob Dylan, gets better and better as he ages. His latest CD, "Love & Theft," is outstanding.
Dylan is clearly controversial here in that Fielding departed mote because of the way Privacy Nyet treated him after he "spammed" threads with Dylan quotes.
4805. PelleNilsson - 9/20/2001 8:27:47 PM
So Rosetta is now posing as a Shakespeare scholar? A pity cmboyce is not around. He knew a thing or two.
4806. theDiva - 9/20/2001 9:19:10 PM
maybe this will (to borrow a phrase from Prof) smoke him out.
4807. PelleNilsson - 9/20/2001 10:04:59 PM
4808. Absensia - 9/20/2001 10:35:10 PM
Upstart crow, that he is!
4809. Absensia - 9/20/2001 10:42:40 PM
As I am sure you know, my comment was directed toward cmboyce! It is fitting, however, for Stone,
4810. PelleNilsson - 9/20/2001 10:42:41 PM
Who?
4811. Absensia - 9/20/2001 11:05:04 PM
See my answer right above your question!
4812. PelleNilsson - 9/20/2001 11:08:50 PM
Interestingly, boyce has also written a book about furniture. A man of wide tastes.
Were you around when he was around?
4813. arkymalarky - 9/20/2001 11:17:09 PM
PONR,
I think you meant "you're." I'll bet your English teacher doesn't acknowledge you when you meet in the mall.
4814. Property of Jesus - 9/21/2001 12:07:13 AM
Ouch! You're write.
If you can't laugh at yourself, make fun of other people.
4815. arkymalarky - 9/21/2001 12:14:23 AM
You make that such easy advice to follow!
4816. don s. - 9/21/2001 12:19:29 AM
Uh-oh, somebody should return Jesus's property to Him. Josetta Stone is getting it all wrinkled.
4817. Absensia - 9/21/2001 12:38:51 AM
Pelle, No, No, No..I meant, my comment was NOT directed toward the honorable Mr. Boyce, but rather Stone. Forgive me. I was on the phone with people who were talking numbers at me.
In retrospect, it could be a humorous comment for Mr. Boyce, since "upstart crow" was what one of Shakespeare's early critics called him. Mr. Boyce might enjoy seeing it.
I was here when he was here and enjoyed reading what he had to say very much. Then I took a bit of a leave and was sorry to see he was not here.
4818. Absensia - 9/21/2001 12:40:28 AM
Every time I see "Property of Jesus" I think of a gym shirt some silly sophmore ripped off from some school.
4819. judithathome - 9/21/2001 12:43:18 AM
Natural leap, Abs...he's nothing if not sophmoric.
4820. Absensia - 9/21/2001 12:49:35 AM
and...let's not forget the smell of gym socks in the air!
4821. Property of Jesus - 9/21/2001 1:26:37 AM
Ah, fond memories of Iona Prep school in New Rochelle.
Girls were always running through my mind. They didn't dare walk.
4822. Absensia - 9/21/2001 2:18:17 AM
Arky, I'm seeing Dylan on Oct. 6th and will tell you what I think. I saw him summer before last at a blues and jazz festival with BB King...it was great. Dylan's not the young one we grew up, but, except for a few missteps, I think he is aging well.
4823. don s. - 9/21/2001 2:19:16 AM
Property of Josetta, a humble request: whenever you post something, could you also include an attribution? Every so often something you write sounds familiar but I have trouble placing it. Thanks in advance.
4824. arkymalarky - 9/21/2001 3:06:12 AM
Abs,
He came to LR a few years ago, and I didn't see him because I couldn't get a ticket, but a close friend did and thought he was drunk. I've heard he's improved, and I think people enjoyed the LR concert, but I didn't have the energy. I'm that way at the beginning of the school year, but I'm sure my energy and my money would have been better spent there than at the disaster of a Little Feat concert I went to a couple of weeks later in Texarkana.
4825. Absensia - 9/21/2001 3:11:50 AM
Arky, yes..I read about the Little Feat fiasco.
I saw dylan during those years. He was probably drunk or stoned or both. He has cleaned up his act a lot and I really like his last two cds.
4826. Property of Jesus - 9/21/2001 3:22:16 AM
Sure.
"A dork is a dork is a dork."--Don s.
4827. Property of Jesus - 9/21/2001 9:38:21 PM
As someone who purchased three copies of Macy Gray's first CD, let me warn everyone to stay away from her second.
Sad to see what drugs can do to a talent.
4828. Property of Jesus - 9/21/2001 9:42:29 PM
4829. judithathome - 9/22/2001 8:33:09 PM
We went to the theatre last night and saw an outstanding cast in Edward Albees Three Tall Women. If you ever have a chance to see this play, even with a halfway decent cast, hurry and do so...it is absolutely superb.
It will make you ponder getting old, staying young, and everything in between. I don't know how Albee learned to write women characters so well but he certainly does a bang up job in this play. (Of course, anyone who could create Martha has to know women...)
4830. Absensia - 9/22/2001 8:34:33 PM
The Vagina Monologues is in town. Has anyone seen it? I am getting tickets for it.
4831. joezan - 9/23/2001 5:01:44 AM
I have had about all I can take of talking vaginas in the war thread, thank you very much.
4832. judithathome - 9/23/2001 5:16:40 AM
:-)
4833. don s. - 9/23/2001 7:24:01 AM
>I have had about all I can take of talking vaginas in the war thread, thank you very much.
So says the No. 1 pudenda.
4834. joezan - 9/23/2001 1:42:15 PM
..so says the 2nd-in-charge pudenda.
4835. bubbaette - 9/23/2001 2:58:22 PM
My guess is that Joezan is talking about the kind of pussy who thinks that beating up on peace demonstrators counts as retaliation against Bin Laden.
4836. PsychProf - 9/23/2001 4:53:05 PM
During the "Tribute to Heros" broadcast, Neil Young accompanied a singer whom I am unable to identify...can anyone help me out, or give me the title of the song?
4837. wabbit - 9/23/2001 5:03:49 PM
Eddie Vedder, of Pearl Jam fame, was the singer, but I don't remember the name of the song.
4838. PsychProf - 9/23/2001 5:10:38 PM
Thanks.
4839. wabbit - 9/23/2001 5:12:30 PM
Was the song Long Road? I think so...
4840. PsychProf - 9/23/2001 5:13:19 PM
I'll go look for lyrics...
4841. wabbit - 9/23/2001 5:15:39 PM
Yes, it was Long Road.
4842. PsychProf - 9/23/2001 5:16:15 PM
Thanks oh Wise Wabbit...
LONG ROAD
and i wished for so long.....can not stay
all the precious moments..... can not stay
wings have fallen...... can not stay
somethings missing..... can not say
holding hands with daughters and sons, in a phase have fallen down down down.....
i have wished for you so long, how i wish for you dad
and i'll walk the long road.....can not stay
there's no need to say goodbye
all the friends and family
all the memories going round round round......
i have wished for so long, how i wish for you dad.......
and the wind keeps rollin'
and the sky keeps turning....gray
and the sun is setting
the sun will rise again
ohhh ahhh......
i have wished for so long
i wish for you dad
i have wished for so long, now i wish for you dad
4843. Property of Jesus - 9/23/2001 5:37:02 PM
Let's hope they sell that "Tribute to Heroes" TV special in DVD format. I should have videotaped it, but didn't.
U2 and Sting were great. Excellent Billy Joel's "New York State of Mind."
4844. Ms. No - 9/23/2001 6:32:00 PM
Gary Persons
1942 - 2001
Great trumpet player and good friend sadly missed by the Doctor Wu Band.
4845. cmboyce - 9/24/2001 3:19:56 PM
Hello, Moties.
Pelle: good to see you, and thanks, too, for the puff. Absensia, thank you too for good words.
I was away quite a while, an aversion response to the Mote's disease that grew into a habit: I haven't really much use for the Net, and I don't go there/here too much, so it was easy to forget the good stuff and simply have no appetite for the name-calling, etc. But I heard from a couple of Moties in the wake of the WTC bombings, and the reminder of all the good folks here has inspired a look-in. I'm glad to see, on the evidence of most of this thread, at least, that they--you--are still around.
4846. Property of Jesus - 9/24/2001 3:36:08 PM
With the single exception of Homer, there is no eminent writer, not even Sir Walter Scott, whom I despise so entirely as I despise Shakespeare.
--George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)
4847. judithathome - 9/24/2001 3:53:50 PM
CM Boyce!!!
Great to hear from you; hope you check in more often. You've been missed, truly.
4848. cmboyce - 9/24/2001 4:31:42 PM
Thanks, Judith. I'll be checking in from time to time. I hope all is well with you and yours. How's business?
4849. PsychProf - 9/24/2001 4:52:28 PM
Hey CM...
4850. judithathome - 9/24/2001 5:04:20 PM
Business is slow but steady...people are distracted by more important things lately.
4851. cmboyce - 9/24/2001 5:38:13 PM
Hey, PP, how ya doin'? I'll be looking in at sports, for sure.
Yeah, Judith. Consumer confidence ain't much of a reed, these days. But I expect that after a few months, anyway, people will be back to their usual collectablescent selves. (Whatever that may mean!)
4852. judithathome - 9/24/2001 5:46:06 PM
I know what it means and am banking on you being right!
4853. Absensia - 9/24/2001 6:11:00 PM
cmb,
It is a delight to see you here again.
4854. PelleNilsson - 9/24/2001 7:41:28 PM
CM, old chap, how nice to see you!
Now, while you're here, your awesome omniscience will be put to the test. When I see your initials I always think of Carl Michael. Who was he? (Hint: Swede, 18th century)
4855. arkymalarky - 9/25/2001 12:54:37 AM
Hey Boyce!!!!
4856. Erinys - 9/25/2001 9:21:03 AM
EricCartman - Well, duh. You'd look darn foolish dancing to no music, wouldn't you?
Perhaps. I saw a modern dance number once that didn't have any music, and they didn't look foolish. But I do like dance better with music.
Hmm. The debate about watching a music video 30 times. If a 3-minute movie can't hold your attention, most likely nothing will. No, music videos aren't the same as music.
Answering you point-by-point is very exhausting for me, because it's your style, not mine. I'll go type up an essay. More later, need to go to bed now. Perched in my enormous easy chair, my feet trembling on the floor, as soft as they can be. (I'm listening to Hector Zazou, does obscurity equal points for taste - blech)
4857. pellenilsson - 9/27/2001 9:01:05 PM
A Botero exhibition will open tomorrow at the Museum of Modern Art here
4858. joezan - 9/30/2001 5:25:58 AM
If only...
President Urges Calm, Restraint Among Nation's Ballad Singers WASHINGTON, DC— In the wake of the recent national tragedy, President Bush is urging Mariah Carey, Michael Jackson, and other singers to resist the urge to record mawkish, insipid all-star tribute ballads. "To America's recording artists, I just want to say, please, there has already been enough suffering," Bush said. "The last thing we need right now is a soaring Barbra Streisand-Brian McKnight duet titled 'One For All.'" Reports that the FBI had confiscated several notebooks and audio tapes from Diane Warren's home could not be confirmed as of press time.
---The Onion
4859. Erinys - 9/30/2001 7:20:15 AM
Bwahahaha, joezan. There's quite a few more missing on that Onion's list of Put A Sock In It.
Hey Frankster, I'll dance to Madonna with you anytime, hubby can't stand it that he likes her secretly. I see his toes tap when I play her CDs and I goof on him. He likes to think he's so refined that only obscure artists appeal to him, but he's pop like the rest of us at heart.
I listened to Peaches and Regalia Friday night and it was OK, kind of like the way Yes' Roundabout was OK back in the 70s. Although I didn't suffer through FZappa like I do Yes nowadays. I remember a raging debate with my boyfriend at 17, whether Yes or Pink Floyd was the better band. He worshipped Yes, I worshipped PF.
Ah, to be 17 again and have the priorities that enable one to listen to an album 5 times at a sitting. I still think PF has held up a LOT better than Yes.
However. I am totally sick of the current song about the guy wanting a girl in a short skirt and long jacket, uninterrupted prosperity, nails that.....it was cute the first 3 times.
4860. Erinys - 9/30/2001 7:22:59 AM
pellenilsson, that painting....my husband was talking the other day about some theory where when humans became erect, they developed chest traits that looked like buttocks, so mating rituals would continue apace.
And there is the picture of that magnificent derriere. Comedy is all in the timing; it made me laugh.
4861. AuNaturel - 10/1/2001 11:30:50 PM
"You'd look darn foolish dancing to no music, wouldn't you?"
Not so sure about that. If the music is in your head and your rythym is good you won't look bad at all
4862. AuNaturel - 10/1/2001 11:33:44 PM
4857... Very lovely. Interesting possibilities... ;)
4863. AuNaturel - 10/1/2001 11:35:34 PM
"Put A Sock In It."
You mean the Red Hot Chili Peppers?
4864. judithathome - 10/1/2001 11:35:40 PM
Double tubbing not being one of them...
4865. AuNaturel - 10/1/2001 11:41:06 PM
LOL!... I could figure something out.
4866. Property of Jesus - 10/4/2001 7:12:12 PM
Has this ever happened to you?
Recently opened the jewel box to one of my CDs only to find that the actual disc wasn't there.
Then you have to get the CD again ASAP.
So, today, at lunch at Borders I repurchased a copy of "A Love Supreme/John Coltrane"
But this one, priced at $14, is repackaged as a Desert Island Disc with booklet enclosed.
4867. theDiva - 10/4/2001 7:18:50 PM
you never cease to amaze me.
On the one hand you can be an utter crybaby pain in the ass, on the other you have the sublime taste and discernment to appreciate Trane.
(shaking head in wonderment.)
4870. don s. - 10/4/2001 11:47:04 PM
Hey, Rosella, did you look in your walkman? Maybe the disc is there.
Still, can't hurt to own two copies. If only so you can mention it online.
4873. Property of Jesus - 10/5/2001 12:05:50 AM
Shama Lama Ding Dong. Hard to figure out why JJ, mote's treasurer, is lurking on the forum without posting.
There's a story there...
4874. Property of Jesus - 10/5/2001 2:59:35 PM
The New Talkin' World War III Blues
On Bob Dylan's new "Love & Theft" the topical and the timeless merge with maniacal intensity
4875. joezan - 10/5/2001 4:12:07 PM
4876. Property of Jesus - 10/6/2001 2:46:47 PM
I can deal with all the extensive plastic surgery on Jackson's face--except the nose.
I remember asking myself twenty years ago when he started changing his appearance what his face would look like as he aged.
4877. judithathome - 10/6/2001 3:39:16 PM
Little did you guess the answer would be "a snapping turtle."
4878. theDiva - 10/9/2001 2:31:16 PM
hey, if Stone (68) and Judith's(69) posts have been moved, mine (67)ought to be, too. I started it. My reputation could use a little toughening up, anyway.
4879. Property of Jesus - 10/9/2001 3:19:34 PM
I suggested that to thread host and mote treasurer JJ last Friday night. He lurks here--but, for obvious reasons, is too afraid to post
4880. judithathome - 10/9/2001 3:29:36 PM
Instead of smearing people with unfounded claims, why don't you post something about MUSIC in here and start a discussion? You claim to be appalled by how negelected this folder is so why not contribute to it in a positive way rather than coming in here and lying about things of which you know nothing?
I suspect it is because you'd rather be a negative influence than a positive one. Believe me, people notice.
4881. theDiva - 10/9/2001 3:35:53 PM
Happy Birthday, Thelonious!
4882. theDiva - 10/9/2001 3:37:02 PM
The most important jazz musicians are the ones who are successful in creating their own original world of music with its own rules, logic and surprises. Thelonious Monk, who was criticized by observers who failed to listen to his music on its own terms, suffered through a decade of neglect before he was suddenly acclaimed as a genius; his music had not changed one bit in the interim. In fact, one of the more remarkable aspects of Monk's music was that it was fully formed by 1947 and he saw no need to alter his playing or compositional style in the slightest during the next 25 years.
Thelonious Monk grew up in New York, started playing piano when he was around five and had his first job touring as an accompanist to an evangelist. He was inspired by the Harlem stride pianists (James P. Johnson was a neighbor) and vestiges of that idiom can be heard in his later unaccompanied solos. However when he was playing in the house band of Minton's Playhouse during 1940-43, Monk was searching for his own individual style. Private recordings from the period find him sometimes resembling Teddy Wilson but starting to use more advanced rhythms and harmonies. He worked with Lucky Millinder a bit in 1942 and was with the Cootie Williams Orchestra briefly in 1944 (Williams recorded Monk's "Epistrophy" in 1942 and in 1944 was the first to record "'Round Midnight") but it was when he became Coleman Hawkins's regular pianist that Monk was initially noticed. He cut a few titles with Hawkins (his recording debut) and, although some of Hawkins's fans complained about the eccentric pianist, the veteran tenor could sense the pianist's greatness.
4883. theDiva - 10/9/2001 3:37:38 PM
The 1945-54 period was very difficult for Thelonious Monk. Because he left a lot of space in his rhythmic solos and had an unusual technique, many people thought that he was an inferior pianist. His compositions were so advanced that the lazier bebop players (although not Dizzy Gillespie and Charlie Parker) assumed that he was crazy. And Thelonious Monk's name, appearance (he liked funny hats) and personality (an occasionally uncommunicative introvert) helped to brand him as some kind of nut. Fortunately Alfred Lion of Blue Note believed in him and recorded Monk extensively during 1947-48 and 1951-52. He also recorded for Prestige during 1952-54, had a solo set for Vogue in 1954 during a visit to Paris and appeared on a Verve date with Bird and Diz. But work was very sporadic during this era and Monk had to struggle to make ends meet.
4884. theDiva - 10/9/2001 3:37:54 PM
His fortunes slowly began to improve. In 1955 he signed with Riverside and producer Orrin Keepnews persuaded him to record an album of Duke Ellington tunes and one of standards so his music would appear to be more accessible to the average jazz fan. In 1956 came the classic Brilliant Corners album but it was the following year when the situation permanently changed. Monk was booked into the Five Spot for a long engagement and he used a quartet that featured tenor-saxophonist John Coltrane. Finally the critics and then the jazz public recognized Thelonious Monk's greatness during this important gig. The fact that he was unique was a disadvantage a few years earlier when all modern jazz pianists were expected to sound like Bud Powell (who was ironically a close friend) but by 1957 the jazz public was looking for a new approach. Suddenly Monk was a celebrity and his status would not change for the remainder of his career. In 1958 his quartet featured the tenor of Johnny Griffin (who was even more compatible than Coltrane), in 1959 he appeared with an orchestra at Town Hall (with arrangements by Hall Overton), in 1962 he signed with Columbia and two years later was on the cover of Time. A second orchestra concert in 1963 was even better than the first and Monk toured constantly throughout the 1960s with his quartet which featured the reliable tenor of Charlie Rouse. He played with the Giants of Jazz during 1971-72 but then in 1973 suddenly retired. Monk was suffering from mental illness and, other than a few special appearances during the mid-'70s, he lived the rest of his life in seclusion. After his death it seemed as if everyone was doing Thelonious Monk tributes. There were so many versions of "'Round Midnight" that it was practically a pop hit! But despite the posthumous acclaim and attempts by pianists ranging from Marcus Roberts to Tommy Flanagan to recreate his style, there was no replacement for the original.
4885. theDiva - 10/9/2001 3:38:11 PM
Some of Thelonious Monk's songs became standards early on, most notably "'Round Midnight," "Straight No Chaser," "52nd Street Theme" and "Blue Monk," Many of his other compositions have by now been figured out by other jazz musicians and are occasionally performed including "Ruby My Dear," "Well You Needn't," "Off Minor," "In Walked Bud," "Misterioso," "Epistrophy," "I Mean You," "Four in One," "Criss Cross," "Ask Me Now," "Little Rootie Tootie," "Monk's Dream," "Bemsha Swing," "Think of One," "Friday the 13th," "Hackensack," "Nutty," "Brilliant Corners," "Crepuscule with Nellie," "Evidence" and "Rhythm-a-Ning," Virtually all of Monk's recordings (for Blue Note, Prestige, Vogue, Riverside, Columbia and Black Lion) have been reissued and among his sidemen through the years were Idrees Sulieman, Art Blakey, Milt Jackson, Lou Donaldson, Lucky Thompson, Max Roach, Julius Watkins, Sonny Rollins, Clark Terry, Gerry Mulligan, John Coltrane, Wilbur Ware, Shadow Wilson, Johnny Griffin, Donald Byrd, Phil Woods, Thad Jones and Charlie Rouse. His son Thelonious Monk, Jr. (T.S. Monk) has helped keep the hard bop tradition alive with his quintet and has headed the Thelonious Monk Institute whose yearly competitions succeed in publicizing talented young players. — Scott Yanow, All Music Guide
4886. Absensia - 10/9/2001 3:44:04 PM
Thank you, Diva. Criss-Cross is a long time favorites of mine.
4887. theDiva - 10/9/2001 3:46:38 PM
Today is a fine day to sample the genius of this man, if you haven't done so already. His is one of the more distinctive voices in all of jazz.
Straight, No Chaser is a decent documentary which chronicles Monk's life and work to a certain extent. I say 'decent' because the music is treated with respect (unlike in, say, Burns' Jazz, where performances where chopped up like vegetables); I'm not wild about how the documentarian treated Monk's illness. See it just for the music.
If you are going to buy just one Monk CD, let it be 'Monk's Music', recorded on my dad's 21st birthday (serendipitously enough for me, as Dad's favorite artist is Monk and Dad introduced me to this wonderful mania) and featuring, among others, John Coltrane and Coleman Hawkins.
4888. theDiva - 10/9/2001 3:47:19 PM
Abs
I knew there was a reason I'm so wild about you.
4889. Absensia - 10/9/2001 3:51:17 PM
Well, I also like Coltrane and Hawkins as well. And, Charlie Parker.
4890. theDiva - 10/9/2001 4:00:41 PM
(high fives Abs)
4891. Absensia - 10/9/2001 4:01:57 PM
^5s, Deeeev
4892. judithathome - 10/9/2001 4:05:04 PM
I have to throw in a weird guy I liked, in addition to all who've been mentioned so far...Rassan Roland Kirk.
And another guy I've heard locally but he may be bigger for all I know...Kurt Whalen?
4893. theDiva - 10/9/2001 4:07:34 PM
Rahsaan. Yes, he is marvelous and very, very original. I was listening to him this morning. He was a friend of Dad's, and my grandmother's neighbor.
I think you're thinking of Kirk Whalum? He's contemporary jazz, I think, and that's about all I know.
4894. judithathome - 10/9/2001 4:13:18 PM
Yeah, Kirk Whalum...well, he sounds pretty good in a crowded club after two Bombay Sapphire martinis!
4895. theDiva - 10/9/2001 4:17:32 PM
One of the things the Yanow piece does not mention is how passionately Monk admired, respected, and loved Ellington as a composer, musician, and man. If you are at all familiar with Duke's work, and you listen to Monk, you can hear it when he plays an Ellington composition. Monk plays as only he can, with his percussive style and interesting twists on the chord progressions, but with total faithfulness to Duke's spirit. It's a beautiful thing.
You can also hear, if you listen closely, how much James P. Johnson and The Lion influenced Monk's playing technique. There is much of the stride style in what he does.
4896. don s. - 10/9/2001 7:06:07 PM
Gotta second the recommendation of Monk's Music. It's my favorite, too.
4897. theDiva - 10/9/2001 7:07:50 PM
mmmmmwwwwaaaaaahhhhhh!!!!
4898. Jenerator - 10/10/2001 9:25:33 PM
I'm listening to a techno/trance CD called Liquid Dreams by DJ U*Foria.
This kind of stuff makes me energized.
Where's TCKRULAK??
4899. Ms. No - 10/12/2001 12:46:34 AM
Just got word that we're opening for Mick Fleetwood's new blues project on Oct. 26th!!
WAHOOO!!!
4900. Property of Jesus - 10/12/2001 12:53:17 AM
Say "bye, bye, bye" to Ms. No everyone.
I remember JJ claiming in July that "his band" was opening for BB King in August.
Last we ever heard from him.
4901. judithathome - 10/12/2001 12:54:01 AM
*
4902. Erinys - 10/12/2001 1:54:30 AM
Hey, what a thrill for you, Ms.No! Is it small venues? I've only seen live blues in small, intimate places. Love dancing to the blues. What do you play? I'm sure everyone else knows, but I've missed it. Are you going to travel round and open for this blues project everywhere, or just in your home town?
Thanks for that info on Monk, Diva, I enjoyed reading it.
4903. arkymalarky - 10/12/2001 6:01:31 AM
Great news, MsN! That's not long from now, either. Congratulations!
4904. angel-five - 10/12/2001 6:46:31 AM
Great, No. Get Mick to autograph you for me, would you?
Sometimes I feel inadequate because I have never really gotten a liking for jazz, simply some of the better artists here and there. I have come to understand and like some of the hardest genres to appreciate in music (not quite in Kurt Mondaugen's league of course but if I were to name the last ten songs I listened to I'm pretty sure no one here would recognize more than one of them) but there's just something about jazz that leaves me standing at the station. Dunno what it is.
And, like, all the hot Diva chicks like jazz so it's like if I want to meet them I have to go to jazz clubs and stand there surrounded by music I don't appreciate. Is it any wonder I sulk in trance clubs?
4905. arkymalarky - 10/12/2001 6:53:40 AM
I love fusion and I like jazz, but don't really keep up. We really don't spend a lot of time or money on music since we were twenty-somethings. I feel like a freak (and sort of guilty) because I love eminem's Marshall Mathers album. But I do think it's great. No accounting for tastes.
I think I've posted on this before, but Mose's friends tickle me. They'll come over and be listening to their car stereos, anything from rap to Nirvana, but one of them caught the PBS jazz show and they all turn their stuff off and hop in his car. I guess it's a band nerd thing.
4906. arkymalarky - 10/12/2001 6:54:13 AM
Great to see you, btw, A-5. I've enjoyed reading your posts in the I&P thread.
4907. angel-five - 10/12/2001 7:04:55 AM
Thanks.
Eminem is catchy, undoubtedly. I don't really dig on him but he's nice for a little verbal riff here and there.
I suppose one of the signs that I'm getting older is that I find very few new and widely popular bands anymore that really appeal to me at all. There are a couple -- I will admit to a liking for Disturbed despite the fact that they show all the hallmarks of being little more than the latest young angry flavor of the month, and there are two Crazy Town songs I like -- but mostly it's just horrendously monotonous and boring for me to listen to anything top 40ish.
And I already feel the need to tell myself that somehow my lack of interest in popular music is qualitatively different from the way older family members viewed the music I liked when I was a teenager. That is, of course, likely bullshit, but still comforting.
4908. arkymalarky - 10/12/2001 7:11:34 AM
I dunno. I hate almost all popular music right now. Not familiar with Disturbed or Crazy Town. But teenagers seem to be really tired of it too. I looked through a student's cds the other day and it was stuff like Marvin Gaye.
4909. arkymalarky - 10/12/2001 7:14:37 AM
He's not atypical, btw. Mose likes very little new stuff, and hardly spends any money on "hit" cds, and her friends don't seem to much, either, outside a few select albums. Kids around here like country too, of course, and some of that stuff isn't half bad. Twenty years ago I couldn't get a country song out of my hearing fast enough.
4910. Frankster - 10/12/2001 7:19:05 AM
ARKY !!!
( The lawn can wait a few minutes )
Whew! I thought we had lost you to old Maudeor Barney Millerepisodes on TV Land. How's the new dish working out ?
My sister, who just graduated from USC this past year, restored my faith in some of the youth of today, as not only Marvin Gaye, Sly Stone, and Sister Sledge were found by me in her CD collection, but Miles Davis and Fleetwood Mac also.
OTOH, maybe it's because she was on the band ?
4911. angel-five - 10/12/2001 7:21:40 AM
Don't worry about not knowing about Disturbed or Crazytown. They're two throwaway bands, pretty much.
I still have a rather strong reflexive dislike of country music, I will admit. But it's moot because I almost never turn the radio on and I don't go to too many places where popular or country music is playing. Really, my connection to what's on the radio, any radio, is as tenuous as it's ever been in my entire life.
4912. angel-five - 10/12/2001 7:22:28 AM
On the band?
4913. angel-five - 10/12/2001 7:23:56 AM
Er.
Anyway I think the information age is beginning to show a little more among our youth. There's a lot more divergence in musical tastes among teenagers now then I ever remember there being when I was their age.
4914. arkymalarky - 10/12/2001 7:24:45 AM
Frank!!! Long time no post! Smooches!!! I'm loving the satellite, but stay on CNN too much these days.
4915. angel-five - 10/12/2001 7:25:58 AM
At least you didn't say 'My sister got on the band.' or, like, 'fuck the tree'.
4916. arkymalarky - 10/12/2001 7:26:35 AM
Yeah, it's funny that a lot of the old albums we own don't have much radio stuff. One of Bob's favorite albums is Manfred Mann's "Good Earth" and he can't stand a thing they've ever done that was on the radio. Now on my commute, though, it's easier to flip through stations than load up the cd changer, somehow, and most of our favorite stuff is still on wax.
4917. Frankster - 10/12/2001 7:32:16 AM
Yeah, I'm coming around to my old self once again, but I think I've been suffereing of late from information overload. I've been reading the local paper and L.A. Times of late, and that's been it.
I've never really cared for "Country", in whatever form it finds itself today ?
There are some old classics that a local "light" or "soft" music station use to play which I would immediately buy, but they never mention the artist or the title on this station. Don't ya just hate that ?
I'm such a lucky guy, I found me a little angel
Such a lucky guy
Gotta a little bit of heaven, in this lonely world...
4918. Frankster - 10/12/2001 7:33:56 AM
Angel-five,
Post 4915 went over my head.
4919. angel-five - 10/12/2001 7:44:47 AM
To get or be on someone, at least around here, means to shag them.
And when you said your sister's divergent tastes in music was because she was 'on the band', and given your propensity to unintentionally say lewd and odd phrases like 'what would any red-blooded man do in my position? fuck the tree!' I thought I'd rib you a little. Apparently though I was being my usual obtuse self.
4920. Erinys - 10/12/2001 7:55:47 AM
angel, (not quite in Kurt Mondaugen's league of course but if I were to name the last ten songs I listened to I'm pretty sure no one here would recognize more than one of them)
Try me, I really like one of the new Crazy Town's I've been hearing. Er, I don't know who Kurt Mondaugen is and apparently google doesn't, either. You are really one obscure and eclectic dude there with your references that even google doesn't pick up.
Hey larky, they've got pretty good taste if they're heading for Marvin Gaye.
One of my fave Fleetwood Mac songs is Hypnotized from Mystery To Me. The slide guitar and his voice together just make it.
Two friends having coffee together
When something flies by their window....
.
Because there's no explaining what your imagination
Can make you see and feel
Seems like a dream
(They) got me hypnotized
4921. Frankster - 10/12/2001 7:55:56 AM
A-5
Well, it became obtuse when you mentioned that my sister goton the band. I don't think I utilized the term, "got" with reference to her.
I also thought there was plenty of space twix my "red-blooded" question, and my dismissal of planting the tree that afternoon as priorities became suddenly clear.
I laughed when I read what others had followed it with, particularly Glenda's comment about being a passionate gardener.
I'm not evengoing to take a peek into the Sex Thread. I gotta get!
Yeah, you've gotten me before if I remember correctly. :-)
G'night, y'all!
4922. Frankster - 10/12/2001 7:57:46 AM
great! I'm just about to leave and one of my favorite posters decides to show up. :-(
4923. Erinys - 10/12/2001 8:01:32 AM
Pbffft.
4924. Erinys - 10/12/2001 8:03:21 AM
But I keep thinking I've heard of Kurt Mondaugen. Kurt Mondaugen, Kurt Mondaugen where are you?
Simple minds wnat to know.
4925. angel-five - 10/12/2001 8:26:53 AM
Kurt Mondaugen is an illuminated being in the novel Gravity's Rainbow and is also the name of a guy who once upon a time used to post here, a very brilliant and iconoclastic friend who thought that Stockhausen was boring pop. He no longer graces us with his presence, just one of the many who have left for greener pastures.
I haven't listened to Crazy Town in a few days so they wouldn't be on my last ten songs listened to list (which has in any case changed considerably since I posted that.)
The last fifteen songs on my playlist:
Blank and Jones -- Beyond Time (The Thrillseekers Remix)
Autechre -- Arch Carrier
BT -- Smartbomb
Unlight -- Pusher
Coil -- The First Five Minutes After A Violent Death
DJ Choci and the Powder Front -- Just Feel This
Prodigy -- Molotov Bitch
Seraphim Shock -- Little Gothic
Rank 1 -- Airwave
Nightmares On Wax -- Rise
The Thrillseekers -- Synaesthesia (Dave Pearce mix)
Kid606 -- Dodgy
Liquid Child -- Return of Atlantis (Ferry Corsten mix)
Massive Attack -- Dissolved Girl
Aphex Twin -- Come To Daddy
and DJ Tiesto's remix of BT -- Dreaming is spinning now.
As far as Crazy Town, you gotta love Only When I'm Drunk and Lollipop Porn Bitch but I believe I like Black Cloud the best. Shifty is ok but Epic has some flow in that one.
4926. Erinys - 10/12/2001 9:00:21 AM
I recognize Massive Attack & Prodigy, that's about it, so turns out you're right.
Thanks for the explanation about KM.
4927. angel-five - 10/12/2001 9:38:11 AM
Blank and Jones, DJ Choci, Rank 1, The Thrillseekers, DJ Tiesto and Liquid Child are all trance. Aphex Twin, Autechre, Coil and Kid606 are prolly best described as eclectic electronica running toward the industrial sound approach to songmaking. Nightmares on Wax is minimalist electronica. BT is -- well, you name a sound and BT has a song in the style, but he's mostly house and trance (though Smartbomb sounds like a track that The Crystal Method wishes they would have cut for Tweekend, I for the life of me don't know why BT is not larger than life here in America). Unlight is dark and ambient although Pusher is a very driving active song. And Seraphim Shock is something of a cross between Type O Negative and a Black Mass. And Prodigy and Massive Attack you know.
4928. Erinys - 10/12/2001 10:15:08 AM
You're east coast?
4929. Erinys - 10/12/2001 10:18:23 AM
Not meaning to put you in a box, but those sound east coast and I'm wondering if I guessed right.
4930. angel-five - 10/12/2001 10:20:29 AM
Most of them actually aren't even American.
I'm not East Coast tho my family is.
4931. PelleNilsson - 10/12/2001 10:37:53 AM
What demons of the night are keeping you people up at this hour?
4932. Erinys - 10/12/2001 10:44:43 AM
Swedish demons!
4933. Erinys - 10/12/2001 10:46:00 AM
4934. Erinys - 10/12/2001 10:53:33 AM
Hmm. The HTML around here has changed. I can't do my winkys and double-secret probation fonts like I used to.
4935. Erinys - 10/12/2001 10:55:09 AM
And therefore my plea to PelleNilsson for him to entertain us all through these dark hours, fell flat.
4936. PelleNilsson - 10/12/2001 11:12:21 AM
Well you are right there but you shouldn't have put angled brackets around the text. Are you seeing purple? I don't.
Anyhow I must run a couple of errands now See you.
4937. judithathome - 10/15/2001 5:21:25 PM
Last night we attended a performance of Bruce Wood Dance Company at the wonderful Bass Performance Hall. I've written about this company before and they were still excellent last night...first act was the Symphonic Themes from West Side Story and the second act was Red by Phillip Glass...very powerful but the music was so repetitive, it got on my nerves before the end. Last act was the best: Ravels Bolero done as a sort of 1930s S&M Berlin decadence set in the abandoned train station coffee shop.
I know Bolero is repetitive as well but it has never irritated me the way Glass' music does...
4938. PelleNilsson - 10/15/2001 7:13:21 PM
Many years ago I heard an interview with a violinist on BBC. He said that although the theme in Bolero is simple it is a difficult piece to play because of the great dynamic range. He also said something (I have forgotten the details) about difficulties in switching to the Banjo Position.
Did they use The Position last night?
Which reminds me of George Formby the British actor/banjoist who used to appear in exceedingly bad comedies 40-50 years ago. Does anybody except me remember him?
4939. judithathome - 10/15/2001 7:37:06 PM
Did they use The Position last night?
They used many positions last night but I don't know if the Banjo was among them.;-)
(this was quite a sexy performance, Pelle)
4940. PelleNilsson - 10/15/2001 9:24:42 PM
This is the banjo position:
4941. judithathome - 10/15/2001 9:25:42 PM
Makes perfect sense. I did not see the Banjo position last night.
4942. janjon - 10/15/2001 9:29:45 PM
a very small amount of Philip Glass goes a long way. Unless you like loud/soft/loud/soft, wave/no wave/wave/no wave ad nauseum. I've often wondered just how it is he can get by with the same old schtick. God knows there are many other much more inventive composers out there, like John Adams.
Bolero if done well can be sublime. Like in the old Boston Symphony recording with Charles Munch.
Doesn't even seem repetitive.
4943. judithathome - 10/15/2001 9:37:48 PM
janjon:
loud/soft/loud/soft, wave/no wave/wave/no wave
One of the moves the troupe of 12 did last night to the Glass piece was a wave...they were lined up facing the audience and it looked like one person facing forward...then they began to sway side to side one after the other while moving up and down, also, and it was very effective...one of the many times the audience broke out in applause during the performance.
4944. janjon - 10/15/2001 9:39:53 PM
well, yes, his music would be perfect for that kind of thing. But, some of his pieces go on for hours. Same two notes for a long time, then perhaps a slight shift, and then.....
4945. judithathome - 10/15/2001 9:44:36 PM
They should pipe his music into dentists offices...would surely take your mind off the pain in your teeth and put it in your head.
4946. janjon - 10/15/2001 10:06:45 PM
as long as they don't try to do that trick with something like.....kenny g. Talk about cruel and unusual.
4947. judithathome - 10/15/2001 10:12:08 PM
Aaaarrrggghhhhh.....
4948. janjon - 10/15/2001 10:47:41 PM
I've been sitting here trying to think of the most irritating so-called music I can think of. A number of other possibilities came to mind - the Tijuana Brass, almost anything my daughter plays but none of which I recognize, almost anything my son plays but none of which I recognize, Andrea Bocelli or whatever his name is, and the beat goes on - but, the winner, hands down, remains....kenny g.
4949. judithathome - 10/15/2001 10:50:23 PM
I think it's rap, heavy on the beat rap...window rattling rap with very loud BOOMS...
4950. janjon - 10/15/2001 10:52:30 PM
nah - rap can be cool.
4951. judithathome - 10/15/2001 10:56:36 PM
Maybe it can be but this is subjective. For instance, I can handle Bocelli just fine.
4952. PelleNilsson - 10/15/2001 11:00:50 PM
Tijuana Brass. Is that Herb Alpert? If so I couldn't agree more. But there are certain whiny, melancholy songs that also irritate me mightily. "September Song" is one of those.
4953. PsychProf - 10/15/2001 11:01:39 PM
Hmmmm....
4954. judithathome - 10/15/2001 11:04:01 PM
I love September Song!
4955. PsychProf - 10/15/2001 11:08:27 PM
Judith...it is the growing of the long days that pulls Pelle's Chain.
4956. judithathome - 10/15/2001 11:11:02 PM
Well, I can understand the days trickling down to a precious few...
4957. PelleNilsson - 10/15/2001 11:12:35 PM
I rather thought so. Does this mean that a beutiful relationship is coming to an end?
And, Judith, I would like to thank you for you know what.
4958. PsychProf - 10/15/2001 11:13:08 PM
I bet he'd really be pissed if it was the "November" song.
4959. judithathome - 10/15/2001 11:17:13 PM
Pelle...
Nothing to it.
I suppose you dislike These Foolish Things and They Can't Take That Away , too?
4960. PsychProf - 10/15/2001 11:18:06 PM
Pelle has always been such a kidder.
4961. PelleNilsson - 10/15/2001 11:20:49 PM
Hahaha! But it's not the lyrics, it's the tune.
4962. judithathome - 10/15/2001 11:24:46 PM
These songs are so romantic; I hear them and imagine myself dancing with soft swishing skirts and high heeled shoes with a tall guy in a dark linen jacket who smells devine as we glide across a darkened patio on a soft summer night and dance and dance to these songs of romance.
4963. PsychProf - 10/15/2001 11:26:36 PM
Men have been known to harbour different fantasies.
4964. judithathome - 10/15/2001 11:28:30 PM
Well...women, too, but dancing in the dark is a good start!
4965. janjon - 10/16/2001 6:50:02 PM
I've thought of another all time STOP I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE type of music.
Mantovani. Any and all of it.
4966. Jenerator - 10/16/2001 6:51:56 PM
Music I can't stand is Tejano rap-techno.
4967. theDiva - 10/17/2001 6:09:53 PM
HONEY! I'm HOME!
4968. rubberducky - 10/17/2001 6:10:39 PM
and theMote is betta fer it
4969. theDiva - 10/17/2001 6:11:06 PM
well, I don't know about that, but it's different, at any rate. Thanks, ducks.
4970. Rivendell - 10/17/2001 6:13:14 PM
Why do you get top billing?
4971. theDiva - 10/17/2001 6:27:17 PM
We're going in height order.
4972. Rivendell - 10/17/2001 6:28:20 PM
Reverse height order I might add.
4973. Rivendell - 10/17/2001 6:31:08 PM
Is some kind of "thread hosting statement" necessary here? This has always seemed such a well behaved bunch.
4974. judithathome - 10/17/2001 6:33:02 PM
Hey, we'll be good...we're just happy to have you two here!
4975. janjon - 10/17/2001 6:34:15 PM
There is a new multi-cd anthology out, or soon to be, of most if not all of Mildred Bailey's recordings. What a honey that one was.
There also is a similar anthology out of Billie Holliday.
As some critic wrote somewhere several months ago - life being as it is, the Holliday one will get most of the ink, but the better singer was Bailey.
And, indeed, I've seen at least three long - and I mean long - "reviews" of the Billie ones. None, yet, of Bailey's.
(There - that will get certain juices flowing.)
4976. judithathome - 10/17/2001 6:36:21 PM
I bought a double CD set of Billie Holiday without reading what was on it...it was her later stuff and just sucked.
4977. glendajean - 10/17/2001 6:36:32 PM
Etta Jones died.
4978. judithathome - 10/17/2001 6:36:58 PM
Jones or James?
4979. Rivendell - 10/17/2001 6:42:13 PM
Where did you find the information glenda? I'm not seeing it anywhere.
4980. theDiva - 10/17/2001 6:43:17 PM
#4973, Riv
Bullshit, everyone knows you're a Hobbit.
4981. Rivendell - 10/17/2001 6:43:58 PM
Janjon,
Just curious. In what way do you think Bailey was better? Vocal quality? Musical knowledge?
4982. janjon - 10/17/2001 6:49:14 PM
Riv - her vocal quality, her phrasing, her ability to swing, the freshness yet profundity she could bring to a lot of songs.
Have no idea about her (or Billie's, for that matter) musical knowledge.
4983. theDiva - 10/17/2001 6:49:33 PM
It's The Complete Billie Holiday on Columbia. (Please note spelling of surname.) I'll post a link to Mildred's collection next.
4984. janjon - 10/17/2001 6:49:51 PM
Etta James died? Oh no. What a treasure SHE was.
4985. janjon - 10/17/2001 6:50:43 PM
I thought that extra "l" would be the cherry on the cake.
(well, not really. I erred.)
4986. theDiva - 10/17/2001 6:54:34 PM
I can't find an obit for Etta, nor any Complete Recordings reissue for Mildred Bailey. The newest for Mildred is her 1938 recordings. Are those the ones you mean?
4987. Rivendell - 10/17/2001 6:56:22 PM
Janjon,
That's cool. I was merely trying to get a handle on what you meant by better. It would be a hard case to make to say that Billie Holiday was not a master of phrasing, swinging and interpreting songs in a fresh way. If one does not care for Billie's admittedly singular style then that is not the same thing as saying she was not highly skilled.
I'm not all that familiar with Bailey. But can make a comparison to Dinah Washington and Ella Fitzgerald. Judging it purely on my personal attraction to the voice, I prefer both Dinah and Ella to Billie. But they both owe so much to Billie that I can't say either is better than Billie.
Perhaps Diva can comment more specifically on Bailey.
4988. theDiva - 10/17/2001 6:56:48 PM
Okay, here we go, I believe it was reissued in 2000.
The Complete Mildred Bailey on Columbia
4989. Rivendell - 10/17/2001 6:58:36 PM
BTW - Diva, if I am a hobbit then we will at least continue to see eye to eye.
4990. theDiva - 10/17/2001 6:59:01 PM
Sorry, I can't comment knowledgably about Bailey musically, not being completely familiar with her work and not owning any of her recordings. She has a nice voice, from what I've heard, and always struck me as one of the big band 'girl singers'. I believe she was married to Red Norvo for a time, and originally sang with Paul Whiteman.
Judith
what recording did you get?
4991. theDiva - 10/17/2001 6:59:43 PM
Riv
naaaaaah. Way too easy.
4992. Rivendell - 10/17/2001 7:06:57 PM
You're incorrigable.
4993. theDiva - 10/17/2001 7:07:58 PM
I try to be.
4994. janjon - 10/17/2001 7:11:38 PM
Riv - oh, I know I swim upstream when it comes to my reactions to Billie. Perhaps it is because she was so often flat and frequently has a whiny sound. But, no question that her impact was immense.
4995. theDiva - 10/17/2001 7:13:18 PM
'she was so often flat'
Any recording in particular come to mind?
4996. Jenerator - 10/17/2001 7:14:32 PM
Go for the big fiver.
4997. Absensia - 10/17/2001 7:15:39 PM
Now?
4998. Absensia - 10/17/2001 7:16:17 PM
Any more word on Etta?
4999. theDiva - 10/17/2001 7:16:46 PM
no
5000. theDiva - 10/17/2001 7:16:56 PM
but
5001. Absensia - 10/17/2001 7:16:58 PM
Jen, you tease.
5002. janjon - 10/17/2001 7:17:49 PM
not really. It is just my general impression. Although, it may very well be that the whiny quality made me think she was being flat.
5003. Absensia - 10/17/2001 7:18:06 PM
grrrrrr...you fast babe, you, Deeev. But it's only right, since it's your first day as host.
5004. theDiva - 10/17/2001 7:19:41 PM
Well, de gustibus non disputandum and all that. I've never heard Lady sing a flat note, and I doubt she'd have allowed anything issued that she wasn't completely happy with.
5005. janjon - 10/17/2001 7:21:50 PM
Diva - wait a minute. Towards the end do you think she had any control over what was released ofr that she even knew what was being released in more than a vague way?
5006. Jenerator - 10/17/2001 7:21:55 PM
Absensia,
Just doing my part to keep things going around here.
5007. janjon - 10/17/2001 7:23:03 PM
actually, I am sure that some of my reaction to Billie comes from the fact that so many of her recordings seem thin because that was the way things were recorded at the time.
5008. Rivendell - 10/17/2001 7:23:15 PM
Y'all will have to forgive comparisons to theatre in here because that's my familiar ground. Most critics call Henrik Ibsen, The Father of Modern Drama. One of my favorite books describes him thus:
All we know is that if we look backward we can hardly see past him, so much of what is there did he absorb into himself; and if we look forward we expect that we shall encounter him again.
I think it is fair to say the same description could apply to Billie Holiday's impact in singing in general and jazz in particular. That reason alone could account for the greater attention given to a re-release of her work as opposed to, what I suspect, is a far less ground breaking artist in Bailey.
5009. Rivendell - 10/17/2001 7:24:40 PM
Janjon,
Message # 5007 Bingo. I was just going to ask that.
5010. janjon - 10/17/2001 7:26:03 PM
I'll try to conjure up where it was that I read this long article commenting on both Mildred and Billie and the then anticipated releases of these anthologies.
But, I ain't necessarily good at conjuring.
5011. theDiva - 10/17/2001 7:26:38 PM
Jan
Contrary to popular belief, she was not strung out all the time. Not only that, but she exerted increasing artistic control throughout her career. Her final album, 'Lady In Satin' was something she'd wanted to do for years, and the one before that, 'Songs for Distingue Lovers', positively swings.
5012. theDiva - 10/17/2001 7:27:22 PM
my God, he said 'ain't' again.
5013. judithathome - 10/17/2001 7:32:05 PM
Something weird, probably a bootleg copy of something weird. I can't find the damned thing now...it was a double CD and after I read the inside info, realized most, if not all the songs had been recorded really late in her career.
I'll look for it later...
5014. theDiva - 10/17/2001 7:32:47 PM
A popular belief created, IMO, by that travesty of a motion picture starring that no-talent of a shres.
5015. theDiva - 10/17/2001 7:33:14 PM
shrew, shreW.
God, I can't even type straight once I think about it.
5016. theDiva - 10/17/2001 7:34:04 PM
That's so funny, Judith, because much of what she did in the 50s was really good. 'Songs For Distingue Lovers' is probably my favorite album of hers.
5017. Rivendell - 10/17/2001 7:39:36 PM
I think Billie's memory is not well served by some of the cheap compilation albums available. I got one called the Priceless Jazz collection and it is clearly B stuff compared to all my other Billie albums. But her name is so recognizable that it is vulnerable to people out to make a buck.
Is there any estate that protects her works? I know the Ellington, Basie and Armstrong estates, to name a few, are very protective.
5018. theDiva - 10/17/2001 7:42:06 PM
There must be, because I recall reading about it. I agree with your point about compilation albums, you have to be really careful.
5019. janjon - 10/17/2001 7:43:57 PM
but wait a minute. I thought she never allowed the release of anything that she didn't approve of.
(I'll leave if you want.)
5020. PsychProf - 10/17/2001 7:45:28 PM
So...who burns MP3 CD's sides me...what software do you use?
5021. theDiva - 10/17/2001 7:47:31 PM
Goofy.
Compilations were released post-mortem.
5022. Rivendell - 10/17/2001 7:48:11 PM
I pulled that Priceless Jazz album out and in fairness have to note it includes duets with Pops on You Can't Lose A Broken Heart and My Sweet Hunk of Trash. I love both of those so it is not a total waste.
But the Easy Living cut on it is markedly inferior to the one on Lady Day's 25 Greatest 1933-1944. (Which is my favorite compilation album).
5023. theDiva - 10/17/2001 7:49:17 PM
I'm thinking the cuts are in the public domain for some reason.
5024. Rivendell - 10/17/2001 7:50:11 PM
Jan,
No need to go on my accout. I'm sure there are lots of cuts floating around for any artist who worked as much as Billie. And even if they were all approved some would still be clearly superior to others.
5025. janjon - 10/17/2001 7:51:47 PM
Diva - I'll just assume that "goofy" was intended for me.
Yeah - the compilations themselves may be post morten, but unless you are saying that the recordings they contain also were first released post mortem and without her approval, you are back to the querry about what about this control she exerted over her releases, etc.
A long way of saying that, whatever her abilities and her impact, she recorded more than just a few clinkers.
5026. janjon - 10/17/2001 7:52:45 PM
Riv - oh I'm not thinking of leaving. I just enjoy tugging at pin feathers every so often.
5027. janjon - 10/17/2001 7:53:35 PM
Like the new title.
Say - any one else interested in the new Eakins show at the Philadelphia Museum of Art?
5028. rubberducky - 10/17/2001 7:55:27 PM
Re: Message # 5020, PsychProf.
So...who burns MP3 CD's sides me...what software do you use?
i use the s/w that came with my mp3 player - but only because if the song isn't its db, i can't put it on the player - very irritating to say the least. i'll probably try and upgrade next year.
what Napster clone, if any, do you use?
5029. PsychProf - 10/17/2001 7:55:54 PM
ahem...
5030. CharlieL - 10/17/2001 7:55:57 PM
Just catching up, it was Etta Jones who died, not Etta James.
5031. PsychProf - 10/17/2001 7:56:40 PM
The right answer at last.
5032. janjon - 10/17/2001 7:57:39 PM
Well, who is Etta Jones then.
5033. PsychProf - 10/17/2001 7:58:22 PM
As in sausage, JanJon.
5034. Ms. No - 10/17/2001 7:58:59 PM
Rode all the way to work this morning with the Persuasions Sing Zappa again. God I love that CD. It always puts me in a good mood.
Also guaranteed to bring a smile to my face every time is Ella singing with (I think) Gillespie and Ellington's orchestra -Don't Mean a Thing if it Ain't Got that Swing. The cut I have is a live recording and you can hear them ribbing each other in the background. At the very beginning as Ella starts to sing somebody gets a good one off and you can hear her smiling and laughing through the music. It makes me so happy it brings tears to my eyes.
5035. theDiva - 10/17/2001 8:00:02 PM
Yes, it was. Not to split hairs, but what I said was that I doubted she'd allow anything released that she wasn't completely happy with, which is a completely different statement than 'she never allowed release/she exerted complete control' etc.
Maybe I wasn't clear in 5018. In this context I'm talking technical recording quality, not the quality of the performance recorded.
Personally, I never heard a Billie Holiday song or performance I didn't like. But there are compilations out there which are recordings of recordings, which affect sound quality and what I was referring to in 5018.
5036. theDiva - 10/17/2001 8:00:51 PM
5035 was to Jan. Sorry.
5037. Rivendell - 10/17/2001 8:00:53 PM
PP,
Sorry, I'm not that techno-savvy yet. But the new sound playback system we are installing next week is fully computer based so I may be learning more about the formats soon.
Hey Chuck!
5038. theDiva - 10/17/2001 8:01:32 PM
Hey Chuck!
5039. PsychProf - 10/17/2001 8:01:37 PM
RD...audiogalaxy, and I use an iomega burner with adaptec software. Really is neat. About $185 for the burner(bought over internet), buck for each TDK 80 min audio CD, and the rest is fun.
5040. PsychProf - 10/17/2001 8:04:03 PM
Riv...when you get ready I would be glad to help...Chuck...do you think what I am doing(MP3 CD Burning) is either illegal or just plain wrong...I value your perspective.
Millard Fillmore
5041. theDiva - 10/17/2001 8:04:13 PM
oh man, Etta Jones!?!?! What a drag.
Jan
She was a jazz singer. A short bio here.
5042. Ms. No - 10/17/2001 8:04:36 PM
Ducky - Re. Napster Clones
I'm having quite a good time with MusicCity's Morpheus. It's adware, but I never see the ads because I don't go to that page.
5043. PsychProf - 10/17/2001 8:05:56 PM
Dr No...how is their selection/library?
5044. janjon - 10/17/2001 8:06:04 PM
I get an Error 5 and blank space when I go to your "here", Diva.
5045. PsychProf - 10/17/2001 8:12:48 PM
As I listen to "The Storm Is Over", by R Kelly, I am glad that Mutt and Jeff have reinvigorated this thread.
5046. Ms. No - 10/17/2001 8:14:43 PM
PP,
I have had very good luck with everything I've tried to find. Mostly what I look for, however, is 80's New Wave and "Modern Rock" so I don't know what anyone else's luck would be like.
The software does get a four or five cow rating from Tucows and it works very similarly to Napster as well as greatly resembling it in layout.
You can search other than just audio files, too. Vidio, Images, Documents and Software---all are available depending on who's logged into the network at any given time.
MusicCity is out of Nashville so I imagine they're tight with RIAA in some way or another, but I don't know for sure.
5047. rubberducky - 10/17/2001 8:21:18 PM
Ms. No:
Morpheus is the one i use. audio galaxy is good too, if not a little slow, imo.
5048. theDiva - 10/17/2001 8:29:34 PM
oh balls. Sorry, jan, I'll try again.
5049. Rivendell - 10/17/2001 8:30:54 PM
Diva,
In fairness I should note my last comments about preferring certain Billie cuts to others are strictly subjective. I happen to like her work from the 30s and early 40s better because most of what I've heard consists of smaller combos and, in no small part, Lester Young. Some of the later stuff I have has that lush, buncha violins, sound that I don't care for as much.
PP,
I may take you up on the offer.
(Mutt and Jeff? hahaha)
5050. theDiva - 10/17/2001 8:31:16 PM
daggone DLLs.
From the All Music Guide:
An excellent singer who is always worth hearing, Etta Jones grew up in New York and at 16 toured with Buddy Johnson. She debuted on record with Barney Bigard's pickup band (1944) for Black & White, singing four Leonard Feather songs, three of which (including "Evil Gal Blues") were hits for Dinah Washington. She recorded other songs during 1946-47 for RCA and worked with Earl Hines (1949-52). Jones's version of "Don't Go to Strangers" (1960) was a hit and she made many albums for Prestige during 1960-65. Jones toured Japan with Art Blakey (1970) but was largely off record during 1966-75. However starting in 1976 Etta Jones (an appealing interpreter of standards, ballads and blues) began recording regularly for Muse, often with her husband, the fine tenor-saxophonist Houston Person. Some of her finest work has been from the last two decades. — Scott Yanow
5051. theDiva - 10/17/2001 8:33:01 PM
Riv
yah, I'm not crazy about the production of Lady In Satin because of the strings, but Billie is of course always wonderful.
I think the trend towards strings in jazz during that period was sort of sad. It's as though they were struggling for a legitimacy which clearly the music should have had on its own.
5052. theDiva - 10/17/2001 8:33:20 PM
Mutt this, Millard.
5053. Rivendell - 10/17/2001 8:40:14 PM
Ohh... Evil Gal Blues, Dinah...
One of my shop assistants is a student from Botswana. I was playing a Dinah album in the theatre and he asked me who it was. I showed him the album and he said, "Man, she's bad." He also asked if he could borrow my copy of Kind of Blue to make his own copy. He's a new Coltrane fan. Diva, you'da been proud of me.
And yea, that's how the strings stike me too. Like some of the artists felt their music lacked credibility otherwise.
5054. Rivendell - 10/17/2001 8:41:47 PM
stike = strike
5055. theDiva - 10/17/2001 8:43:48 PM
Bird was the one who did it first, and it was certainly true in his case.
I am proud of you! Hey, I don't know if I mentioned, but I have also turned my boss on to jazz (you know, the guy who's an East Coast version of you?) I loaned him about 15 CDs, including Blakey's 'Moanin''. The day he passed it back to me, I gave him the Rahsaan on Verve collection. It was funny, because about 20 minutes later the CD was back on my desk. I said 'Hey, Eric, Rahsaan too out there for ya?!'
He said 'Ya took me from hot chocolate to triple espresso with no stops in between!'
Guess I shoulda introduced him to Monk first, huh.
5056. Rivendell - 10/17/2001 8:55:24 PM
Ahem,
Diva... you got me hooked on Money Jungle before Jazz at Massey Hall, remember?
I like his description. You should give him a can of Medaglia d'Oro now.
5057. theDiva - 10/17/2001 8:58:28 PM
THAT'S PERFECT!!!!!!!!
God, you're so brilliant.
And I passed along both MJ and JAMH, with instructions to listen to them in that order. But he's not as obedient as you, he's listening to them any which way he pleases.
5058. Rivendell - 10/17/2001 9:06:08 PM
That's why he's the boss. I also had MJ long before I even possessed a copy of JAMH, so that assisted the obedience. You just got carried away giving him everything at once.
5059. theDiva - 10/17/2001 9:07:57 PM
I did get carried away. I can't help it, I'm a Jazzealot™.
5060. Rivendell - 10/17/2001 9:38:02 PM
Anyone who's been around at all knows you are the original jazzealot here and I am your obedient acolyte.
I hope some of the art discussions that used to grace this type of thread can begin again. Janjon asked about the Eakins exhibit in Philadelphia. I didn't respond because the visual arts are hardly my strong suit.
So if a Janjon or a Wabbit wants to start such a discussion, I can promise I will read it (as always), but probably won't have a lot to say.
And the same holds true for a discussion of any other art form. All are welcome.
5061. theDiva - 10/17/2001 10:00:24 PM
Yes! Absolutely.
I've often thought a discussion of staging vs. reading plays, such as Shakespeare, would be interesting. (Paging Chaz Boyce....)
5062. janjon - 10/17/2001 10:04:20 PM
Well, here is a little capsule description of the exhibit (which will later travel to the D'Orsay in Paris and then to the Met here in the City), from the horse's mouth itself so to speak: Fon Anyone Not Familiar With It, The Philadelphia is a Peach of a Museum, And Has Always Had A Terrific Collection of Eakins
5063. janjon - 10/17/2001 10:06:59 PM
There also was a fine article about this exhibit and Eakins generally in the Sunday Times on Sept. 30, but it is now a premium archive and I'm too cheap to pay for it. Ergo, no link.
5064. Rivendell - 10/17/2001 10:22:05 PM
It would be exciting for Mr. Boyce to contribute here.
Janjon,
Thanks for the Eakins link. I looked through the virtual tour and it is very well done and informative. I particularly like the Walt Whitman portrait and the Pair Oared Shell. The drawing and painting teachers here emphasize learning anatomy, drawing the human form and using photographic studies. So in a roundabout way I am more familiar with Eakins than I thought.
5065. janjon - 10/17/2001 10:39:52 PM
I like the Pair Oared Shell too. He did a number of extraordinary paintings of rowers. I also like the portrait of the child (which I had not seen before). It has terrific balance, both in terms of form and color.
I wonder if the newly discovered information that he used projected photographs as the base of some of his paintings would have created a scandal at the time.
5066. Rivendell - 10/17/2001 11:03:48 PM
I don't know about the critical and academic standards of that time, but it took me aback at first when I read he used projections.
But it is no different from using any other tool, really. He still had to frame the photo, choose what to keep and leave out, and it was all his own skill with the color. And he clearly had independent command of the accuracy of perspective in his works as the Pair Oar study shows.
It would be interesting to know if he felt he had to keep the projections a secret.
5067. CharlieL - 10/17/2001 11:21:19 PM
Hi, everyone!
Sorry it's taken me a while to get back to you, but I'm an honest-to-goodness Fed now, and the work is keeping me busy.
Plus, this weekend the band is having our "Retreat To Learn Our Entire Christmas Show At Once" weekend, and I have an entire CD of mandolin and cello parts I have to transcribe and reinterpret on fretless bass, which is what I hear them as in the current incarnation of the band.
I also have to get out the old mandolin and see if I can do any of the parts on it, because it sounds so good on the CD. SHould be a fun weekend.
Plus, I'm taking my studio gear and our PA, because we're also giving a crash course in sound and audio to our dancer, who is doing a great job out front with the sound crews of the venues we are playing. She has learned how we're supposed to sound, and we're going to be teaching her some of the jargon to use in communicating how to get the sound crew to do what she asks them to do.
She has two strikes against her from the start in that she's female, and she's cute. Sound crews generally tell her they don't have time to listen to her, until all the voices from the stage say, "Susan will tell you what you need to do to get our sound."
Most crews put the bass and guitar way out front because they're used to rock bands. We are definitely not one of those. When you have to blend whistle, flute, 6-string bass guitar and Highland pipes into a coherent front-of-house sound, you know it it's instrumentation you don't come across on a daily basis.
5068. Ms. No - 10/17/2001 11:46:09 PM
Chuck,
Both sorry and relieved to hear about your sound troubles. Sorry to hear you have troubles but relieved to know it happens to everybody else too.
Sound guys in Hollywood turn everything up real loud and then just distort the hell out of it. When we started setting up for our sound check at the Whiskey I overheard some trendy rock guys say "Wow, they've got horns!" as if nobody ever used them anymore.
5069. Ms. No - 10/17/2001 11:46:56 PM
or maybe they weren't talking about the brass...I seem to recall that tempers were running pretty hot that night.
5070. theDiva - 10/18/2001 3:19:08 PM
Please note that I've added some links to the butterscotch bar.
I'd also like to encourage the visual artists among us to continue to post copies of, or links to, their work.
5071. Rivendell - 10/18/2001 5:41:25 PM
Diva,
Got some theatre links for you. Tell me what you think:
http://www.backstage.com/backstage/index.jsp
http://www.aislesay.com/
http://www.canoe.ca/Theatre/
These are general interest sites. I haven't had time to check them out completely. So I'd be interested in any feedback from you or any others here.
I'll check back later. We open a cabaret review tonight and the director just called in very sick (flu). There's a number of things that have to be gotten ready.
Cya
5072. theDiva - 10/18/2001 5:43:02 PM
Heck, let's just put em up.
(Ain't you learned to link yet, you weenie? Geez, even Niner knows how to link now.)
5073. Rivendell - 10/18/2001 5:54:17 PM
I know how to link, dammit (he says as he is on hold). I was just too lazy to type out the A HREF stuff.
Besides, you're my geek here aren't cha?
heeheehee
5074. janjon - 10/18/2001 6:00:14 PM
Riv - didn't you have a new museum open in St. Louis recently? Designed by Tadao Ando (who won the extraordinarily prestigious Pritzker Prize several years ago)? As I recall, it is supposed to be a rather small museum paid for and dedicated to the Pulitzer family's collection.
Ando is also the architect of the soon-to-open new Museum of Modern Art in Ft. Worth.
5075. janjon - 10/18/2001 6:00:23 PM
Riv - didn't you have a new museum open in St. Louis recently? Designed by Tadao Ando (who won the extraordinarily prestigious Pritzker Prize several years ago)? As I recall, it is supposed to be a rather small museum paid for and dedicated to the Pulitzer family's collection.
Ando is also the architect of the soon-to-open new Museum of Modern Art in Ft. Worth.
5076. janjon - 10/18/2001 6:00:57 PM
he's good, but probably not enough to merit double coverage.
5077. theDiva - 10/18/2001 6:01:04 PM
Riv
That's about enough of your lip, mister.
5078. janjon - 10/18/2001 6:10:25 PM
Meanwhile, we will be blessed, sometime in 2004, with a mammoth new addition to our Museum of Modern Art, with the existing MOMA to be drastically renovated and rearranged. Yoshio Taniguchi is the architect.
Talk about complex. And, needing the $$$$ that patrons bring, MOMA will stay open until the last minute and then transfer its operations to its relatively newly acquired facilities in Queens (!!!!).
This City needs a Gehry. It needs another Koolhaas. It needs to be much more in the forefront of modern architecture than it has been since, say, the 30s. Too much derivative and stale crap, too much adherence to making new buildings conform to 19th or early 20th century styles.
Of course, we now have a rather large space to redesign....
5079. Rivendell - 10/18/2001 7:31:35 PM
Janjon,
The Pulitzer Foundation for the Arts building (designed by Ando) just opened. Thanks for drawing my attention to it. It slipped completely under my radar.
This article from last summer describes the facility.
And this article from last week describes the opening exhibits.
Sounds like a very cool place. Will check it out soon.
5080. Rivendell - 10/18/2001 7:32:25 PM
Even Niner knows how to link...
Gimme a break.
Was this before or after he got run through the wood chipper?
5081. theDiva - 10/18/2001 7:34:19 PM
sure. Bring that up.
SOB!
5082. janjon - 10/18/2001 11:04:21 PM
Riv. I'd forgotten you said that the first article was written in the summer and was a bit startled when it said that the new director had just started (thinking that it was a week or so before the museum opened.) At any rate, the concept sounds good. I suspect that funding constraints might have something to do with it only being open to the public one day a week, though.
And, if the Serra is even half as evocative and powerful as the Torqued Ellipses (which I saw in Los Angeles but which I understand will be back in the City permanently in due course thanks to the Pres. of Barnes & Noble), then you have a real treat out there.
5083. angel-five - 10/19/2001 6:42:47 AM
Niner knows how to link?
This seems supremely doubtful. He's some kind of HTML Luddite.
5084. angel-five - 10/19/2001 6:44:42 AM
It's fun to see Diva and Riv doing their thing again, makes me wish I had more time to spend here. Even though you can't actually see Diva, like, throwing things at Riv, it's still like old times.
5085. angel-five - 10/19/2001 7:11:29 AM
Anyone here listen to Elliot Smith?
5086. Frankster - 10/20/2001 6:12:57 AM
What eclectic music tastes tonight. On the CD turntable at the moment:
* The Association's Greatest Hits.
* Eric Burdon and the Animals ( 1966-68 )
* Aaliyah
* J-Lo ( I can't stand her, but she reminds me of my mornings in Paris a few months ago )
* Johnny Cash Greatest Hits
Back to some music.
5087. Frankster - 10/20/2001 6:14:13 AM
Oops. I didn't see the Finein the thread title. I'll leave.
5088. Rivendell - 10/20/2001 8:55:35 PM
Angel,
Good to see your moniker floating around. Wish you had more time to spend in here too.
And there wouldn't be much to see if you could. Diva's aim is no better than its ever been.
Frank,
While Fine is, perhaps, something to which your tastes still aspire, there's no need to let that prevent you from hanging in here.
5089. Absensia - 10/21/2001 6:10:52 AM
5090. theDiva - 10/21/2001 2:20:01 PM
Frankie
Fine and popular arts, hon. We're not exclusive in any way, so post on!
Riv
Hey, I've winged you before, so just keep talkin smack.
5091. judithathome - 10/21/2001 3:14:32 PM
Ando is also the architect of the soon-to-open new Museum of Modern Art in Ft. Worth.
Not that soon...we drove by on Saturday and it looks very much "in progress" still. Looking good, though.
5092. judithathome - 10/21/2001 3:25:19 PM
I checked out the links to the local theatres here in Fort Worth and am embarrassed by all but one which I link below...I'm calling the others today to chide them for their really lame efforts in providing good sites for such wonderful theatres.
Circle Theatre of Fort Worth
5093. marjoribanks - 10/21/2001 6:48:48 PM
Cool thread, cool hosts.
I've not much to contribute right now save a hearty recommendation for Faudel's debut album, 'Baida'.
I realize it may be difficult for many here to find the album except perhaps at speciality stores on the web, but you can probably find a sound file of the hit 'tellement n'brick'.
It's just brilliant rai, Algerian/French dance music, in this case expertly produced and with hop hop overtones. It's the kind of music that you'd have played to a packed dancefloor at the best party you'd ever thrown in your life, a great single from a consistently great album.
5094. marjoribanks - 10/21/2001 6:52:42 PM
Cool thread, cool hosts.
I've not much to contribute right now save a hearty recommendation for Faudel's debut album, 'Baida'.
I realize it may be difficult for many here to find the album except perhaps at speciality stores on the web, but you can probably find a sound file of the hit 'tellement n'brick'.
It's just brilliant rai, Algerian/French dance music, in this case expertly produced and with hop hop overtones. It's the kind of music that you'd have played to a packed dancefloor at the best party you'd ever thrown in your life, a great single from a consistently great album.
5095. don s. - 10/21/2001 6:53:48 PM
Actually, at the best pary I ever threw in my life, we just played "Shattered" by the Rolling Stones over and over and over.
5096. marjoribanks - 10/21/2001 6:59:32 PM
Well, don, you know the kind of party I'm talking about then.
My own best DJ memory, at least the one that first comes to mind, consists of forcibly seizing the CD player at a friend's wedding and cutting into the ABBA and ABBA-clone music to blast Brick House by the Commodores, and watch the groom abandon his wife in order to dance wildly with collegemates from his old fresher dorm.
5097. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 10/21/2001 7:10:46 PM
Mullah Music!
5098. labwabbit - 10/21/2001 8:32:30 PM
Do the Wooly-Mullay..
5099. Rivendell - 10/21/2001 10:09:47 PM
Banks,
If I enter tellement n'brick in a search engine, will that do the trick?
Brick House makes good ABBA busting music.
WoW,
That mullah tush does something to me.
5100. Absensia - 10/21/2001 10:39:58 PM
Deeev,
Sorry for my bad upthread...I didn't even know I had toys to put away. The preview looked fine to me. What did I do wrong? How would I recognize it and fix it? BTW, the Coltrane site is indeed fine.
5101. Frankster - 10/21/2001 11:28:00 PM
Riv and Deev,
Oh, I just thought the old squeeze play was at work here with the "Fine" having been inserted in the thread heading. That is, that this place had now become a venue for Armani suits to congregate while zipping fine wine while looking down at us in Botony 500 overalls. ;-)
Don,
How old were you when you threw that party, 18 ? LOL!
One of my favorite Stones song from that era is "Fortune Teller". It sounds as if it was written in 15 minutes.
... What's wrong with ABBA ? The last time I was at a club, "Dancing Queen" still brought a rush to the dance floor if I remember correctly, and these kids were still eggs in some young woman when ABBA was at its peak.
5102. marjoribanks - 10/22/2001 12:23:07 AM
I looked up the Faudel song on a search engine, and found this site, which has an odd Muzak kind of version of the song available.
5103. marjoribanks - 10/22/2001 12:25:07 AM
By the way, Riva, this thread has a cumbersome and bad title. Either come up with a better, catchy, one or truncate it to, simply, 'Arts'.
5104. Rivendell - 10/22/2001 3:36:34 AM
Abs,
I looked at the trane site. Very nice. It is a good general purpose site and it has some links I hadn't seen before.
Banks,
The tellement n' brick link worked for me. Thanks. I like it. I take it the version on the Faudel album sounds better.
...cumbersome and bad title?? Heh. I suppose you'd truncate Religion and Philosophy to simply 'God'. Although that trim job is similarly misleading.
I did, however, appreciate the royal nature of your request. The dignified little wave after was a nice touch too.
5105. Rivendell - 10/22/2001 3:38:31 AM
Frank,
My 10 year old daughter likes ABBA if that is any recommendation. And it is a step up from Johnny Cash. (I prefer Willie Nelson.)
5106. marjoribanks - 10/22/2001 11:49:16 AM
Riv,
Sorry. I didn't realize that the title was your idea.
(haha)
That is a bizarre work-up of the Faudel song. The original is indeed quite a bit better, you can read about the album (and song) here.
This is followed by the lush "Tellement N'Brick", a passionate and dramatic love song with the trademark sweeping violins and infectious beats that make it impossible to sit still while listening to Raï music.
5107. theDiva - 10/22/2001 1:56:43 PM
Banks
You can blame me for the title. We (royal) might consider a change given the appropriate incentives.
Abs
what goof up? I saw none. Anyway, the Trane site was fab, I meant to say. Had to rush off to meeting right after I looked at it. Love the intro, especially.
5108. Property of Jesus - 10/22/2001 3:30:10 PM
Pay attention, moters!
Terrific music specials on PBS, six episodes, starting next week, entitled AMERICAN ROOTS MUSIC.
Everyone from Jimmie Rodgers to Robert Johnson to Bob Dylan to Clifton Chenier to Tejano's Placo Jimenez.
Worth highlighting even with the criticism of my brief return from my self-exile to publicize it.
Smart move getting rid of AceofSpades, mote management. (sarcasm)
And, for WoW:
They have been going in and out of style, but they're guaranteed to raise a smile
But who is that head in the upper left hand corner?
5109. Rivendell - 10/22/2001 4:20:10 PM
I don't know, but the one in the front row in the blue jacket is pretty scary.
5110. Rivendell - 10/22/2001 4:23:18 PM
Mr. Banks,
...dramatic love song with the trademark sweeping violins and infectious beats... certainly does not describe the link I listened to. Will have to check out the real deal.
Ha! I was going to make a comment about who's idea the title was, but I see Diva already spilled the beans.
Diva,
...given the appropriate incentives. I like that. You may earn the top billing yet.
5111. Rivendell - 10/22/2001 4:25:28 PM
BTW, I loved the intro to the trane site too. It is nice to see Flash used creatively every now and then.
5112. theDiva - 10/22/2001 4:25:43 PM
Dufus.
I already have top billing.
As is my due.
(Bows grandly.)
(hits nose on desk.)
5113. Rivendell - 10/22/2001 4:28:09 PM
That's what happens when the desk is so close.
I know you have top billing dufa. My comment was that you may yet prove you deserve it.
5114. theDiva - 10/22/2001 4:31:05 PM
5115. Rivendell - 10/22/2001 4:51:00 PM
Nah, it's too late to claim it knocked you silly.
5116. theDiva - 10/22/2001 4:51:37 PM
er....actually, that's you.
5117. Rivendell - 10/22/2001 5:03:57 PM
I need love, love
To ease my mind
I need to find, find someone to call mine
But mama said
You can't hurry love
No, you just have to wait
She said love don't come easy
It's a game of give and take
You can't hurry love
No, you just have to wait
You got to trust, give it time
No matter how long it takes
But how many heartaches
Must I stand before I find a love
To let me live again
Right now the only thing
That keeps me hangin' on
When I feel my strength, yeah
It's almost gone
I remember mama said:
You can't hurry love
No, you just have to wait
She said love don't come easy
It's a game of give and take
How long must I wait
How much more can I take
Before loneliness will cause my heart
Heart to break?
No I can't bear to live my life alone
I grow impatient for a love to call my own
But when I feel that I, I can't go on
These precious words keeps me hangin' on
I remember mama said:
You can't hurry love
No, you just have to wait
She said love don't come easy
It's a game of give and take
You can't hurry love
No, you just have to wait
She said trust, give it time
No matter how long it takes
No, love, love, don't come easy
But I keep on waiting
Anticipating for that soft voice
To talk to me at night
For some tender arms
To hold me tight
I keep waiting
I keep on waiting
But it ain't easy
It ain't easy
But mama said:
You can't hurry love
No, you just have to wait
She said to trust, give it time
No matter how long it takes
You can't hurry love
No, you just have to wait
She said love don't come easy
It's a game of give and take
5118. theDiva - 10/22/2001 5:04:42 PM
A fine Holland-Dozier-Holland composition.
5119. Rivendell - 10/22/2001 5:15:02 PM
I know. I think of you every time I hear it.
5120. theDiva - 10/22/2001 5:16:42 PM
aaaawwwwww.....how sweet.
5121. Rivendell - 10/22/2001 5:19:57 PM
You and Whoopi Goldberg in Jumping Jack Flash
5122. theDiva - 10/22/2001 5:21:44 PM
hanh?
5123. marjoribanks - 10/22/2001 5:26:49 PM
I suggest you rename this thread to 'It takes Two to Tango'.
5124. theDiva - 10/22/2001 5:29:10 PM
oops.
5125. marjoribanks - 10/22/2001 5:32:13 PM
I think the links, by the way, should be massively updated and ordered. Why not link in all the great museums of the world, great independent art sites (check out tibetart.com), etc? That could be a useful little folder somewhat like the set-up of newspapers in the International thread?
5126. Absensia - 10/22/2001 5:36:21 PM
Well, that would be nice, but whatever you do, don't do away with the Liberace Museum. And, where is the link to the Velvet Elvis paintings? Geeez, you guys.
5127. theDiva - 10/22/2001 5:36:37 PM
Banks
It's a fine idea...we've added a couple and if you've got specific ones in mind, please post them so I can put them in the butterscotch bar. Riv already posted a couple and as soon as I've got a few minutes, probably tomorrow a.m., I'll put them up, too. Thanks.
5128. theDiva - 10/22/2001 5:36:55 PM
Abs
I was wondering when someone would pick up on that.
5129. Absensia - 10/22/2001 5:38:22 PM
I luvs it Deeeev. Made me laugh and laugh, and I just woke up.
5130. marjoribanks - 10/22/2001 5:40:06 PM
moma.org
guggenheim.org
5131. marjoribanks - 10/22/2001 5:46:18 PM
whitney.org
artic.edu
brooklynart.org
getty.edu
metmuseum.org
nga.gov
si.edu
deutsches-museum.de
uffizi.firenze.it
kyohaku.go.jp
nationalgallery.org.uk
rusmuseum.ru
tate.org.uk
vam.ac.uk
5132. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 10/22/2001 5:52:00 PM
5133. Rivendell - 10/22/2001 5:58:03 PM
Nothing like getting slapped upside the head by a cab driver in short pants.
Some people already do this - anyone who attends an art exhibit, play or concert and wants to post a review, please do so. I enjoy reading them. It doesn't work the same as in movies or TV, where we can all see the same thing, but so what.
5134. janjon - 10/22/2001 5:58:11 PM
marj - if you have them handy, add the Phillips, the Cleveland, the Detroit, the Philadelphia, Boston MOFine Arts, the Isabella Stewart Gardner, the Harvard Museums (if they are lumped together, if not the Fogg, the Busch-Reisinger, the Sackler), the Hartford Athenaeum, the Buffalo museums.
um, the Louvre.
thanks.
5135. Ms. No - 10/22/2001 6:42:15 PM
Angel,
I've heard and liked some Elliot Smith, but I've never seen him perform and I don't have any of his CDs. He's really popular in LA right now.
5136. theDiva - 10/23/2001 2:45:31 PM
Could we pare this list down a bit, please? The butterscotch bar is only so long.
5137. janjon - 10/23/2001 5:42:25 PM
the Phillips, the Harvard museums, the Philadelphia and the Hartford Athenaeum
Actually, there is one more that really should be there. The Baltimore (mostly because of its extraordinary Cone collection of Matisse et al.
5138. judithathome - 10/23/2001 5:50:29 PM
The Kimbell in Fort Worth!
5139. don s. - 10/23/2001 6:25:18 PM
The thread title is fine. And thank Allah you got rid of that turgid tagline "... anything construed as relating to creative endeavors." Ugh. Talk about a buzzkill.
5140. theDiva - 10/23/2001 6:44:54 PM
yah, well, we prefer to save our turgidity for when it's really necessary.
5141. Jenerator - 10/23/2001 6:48:08 PM
[Judith, I was wondering if and when the Kimbell would be honored.]
5142. Webfeet - 10/23/2001 9:19:14 PM
My husband just introduced me to Lucio Dalla, a jazz musician whose style reminds me a little of Sting, with a voice like Eros Ramazatti.
THere's something so quirky and playful about his music, they are a big hit with my little dancer.
I was wondering if anyone here had heard of him?
5143. pogie - 10/24/2001 4:04:45 AM
Is anyone doing nanowrimo? It's writing a novel in a month and looks to be super fun. The site's www.nanowrimo.com.
5144. CalGal - 10/24/2001 4:10:00 AM
Hey, pogie! Nice to see you again.
5145. PelleNilsson - 10/24/2001 10:05:09 PM
Did you know that Michael Jackson is an inventor?
Check out US patent 5255452
5146. theDiva - 10/25/2001 1:55:15 PM
I'll be damned. That explains the move in Smooth Criminal.
5147. theDiva - 10/25/2001 1:56:07 PM
Webby
I've not heard of Dallo, but I understand the Italian jazz scene is quite vibrant and interesting. My dad's been making recs to me but I've yet to check them out.
5148. theDiva - 10/25/2001 2:10:52 PM
Note, please, that I've begun updating the links. Thanks for the input, Banks and Jan.
I will be adding more...if anyone has suggestions (not limited to museums, of course), please let me know.
RivBaby, what were those theatre links again?
5149. wabbit - 10/25/2001 11:23:45 PM
5150. don s. - 10/25/2001 11:25:32 PM
Hahahaha. Yeah, list wabbit's few museum links in the tapioca bar (or whatever it's called), please!
5151. judithathome - 10/25/2001 11:25:50 PM
Thanks, wabbit...very impressive list!!
5152. Rivendell - 10/26/2001 12:05:12 AM
Diva baby,
The theatre links are as follows:
Backstage.com: The Complete Online Performing Arts Resource
Aisle Say: The Internet Magazine of Stage Reviews and Opinions
Jam Theatre - part of the CANOE (Canadian Online Explorer) network
mmmwwwwaaaaahhhhh
5153. Rivendell - 10/26/2001 12:08:40 AM
You can find these links in Message # 5701
She knows how to link, but she doesn't know how to scroll upthread? Sheesh...
5154. Rivendell - 10/26/2001 12:11:16 AM
Make that Message # 5071
I, on the other hand, suffer from dyslexia.
5155. theDiva - 10/28/2001 7:24:02 PM
okay gang, links have been updated....thanks for the suggestions.
5156. angel-five - 10/28/2001 7:30:16 PM
I agree with marj, to a point. But I suggest the thread be retitled 'Diva and Riv Do Their Thing'. That's primarily what this thread is, and should stay that way, uninterrupted. It's sort of like an I Love Lucy for the information age, with scoop necks and linking.
5157. angel-five - 10/28/2001 7:31:41 PM
And the occasional thrown object, and subliminal naked pictures of Katarina Witt.
5158. theDiva - 10/28/2001 7:37:58 PM
you mean, sort of like an ongoing performance piece?
5159. angel-five - 10/28/2001 7:53:14 PM
Zactly.
5160. theDiva - 10/28/2001 7:57:03 PM
well, pardon me while I go dab on some patchouli.
5161. angel-five - 10/28/2001 8:00:52 PM
And Riv greases up.
Off for now. Have a nice day.
5162. theDiva - 10/28/2001 8:06:56 PM
mmmmmwwwwwaaaaaaahhhhhhh!!!!!!
5163. Jenerator - 10/29/2001 3:04:22 AM
The best place to search for fine art on the Net is www.artnet.com
5165. theDiva - 10/29/2001 2:44:56 PM
Good resource, Jen, thanks.
Well, lest anyone think this thread really is a performance piece for me and Riv (we have the Cafe for that, after all), I've decided to institute an 'Artist of the Day' feature in the hopes of sparking some discussion and enlivening this thread. It's not necessary that one bring a pedigree to the discussion in order to participate.
5166. theDiva - 10/29/2001 2:46:24 PM
Today's featured artist is Johannes Vermeer. The text and pictures I'm reproducing here are from a site at Cal Tech.
Johannes Vermeer created luscious canvases of limited scope: generally women and men in seventeenth-century rooms, but also occasional outdoor scenes, allegory and religious themes.
The fascination lies with the intricate combination of light, color, proportion and scale that enhances the moods and reality of the subjects.
Vermeer (1632-1675) lived all his life in Delft. Much of his history is obscure. His birthday is October 31.
5167. theDiva - 10/29/2001 2:49:23 PM
Girl reading a Letter at an Open Window
Size = 83x64
Painted in 1657
Dresden, Gemaldegalerie
In this quiet, reflective, inward-looking painting, a table and curtain separate us from the well-dressed young woman reading a letter. The large green curtain may be intended as part of the scene, or it may be a trompe d'oeil to look like the painting has a physical curtain to cover it, as was popular in Dutch households at the time.
She is enclosed also by the horizontality of the curtain rail and the deep shadow at the top of the picture. This enclosure and separation provide intimacy: she is alone in an unguarded moment, unviolated by the intrusion of the viewer.
On the table is a dish of apples and peaches, reminding us of Eve's Fall. The window is open, representing her desire to escape her duties as a housewife. There is a red curtain pulled back from the window: red is the color of love. She reads with great attention -- perhaps the letter is from her illicit lover.
The woman's hair and sleeve show for the first time Vermeer's use of brilliant blobs of impasto paint to render higlights.
5168. theDiva - 10/29/2001 2:50:56 PM
(Now take a look at this one, for comparison sake.)
Woman in Blue reading a Letter
Size = 47x39, Painted 1662-64
Amsterdam, Rijksmuseum
In the early 1660's, Vermeer created a sequence of images of tranquil, pensive, self-absorption. Light and composition heighten the beauty and introspection of these lonely heroines. At the same time, ironically, he was living in deep debt, running an inn, keeping his wife of ten years, Catherina, and supporting a family: of fifteen pregnancies, eight survived infancy. One can only imagine the chaos that surrounded these serene canvases.
In comparison to the first of this series, Girl Reading a Letter at an Open Window, there is no window, no curtain, and the objects on the table are smaller. There is a jewelry box, a string of pearls, and another page from the letter on the table. The woman is pregnant: perhaps this is a portrait of Catherina.
There is an abstract arrangement of furniture and the map to simultaneously isolate and define the figure of the woman, making her the focus of the picture rather than just another symbol. The negative spaces, the shapes of the visible areas of the wall, are also important in the composition.
The woman's head is further enclosed and framed by the map, with the finial of the map rail providing a termination for her gaze, wrapping her in the contents of the letter. The colors of this painting are muted, blue, ocher and white, adding to the quiet and tranquillity.
5169. PelleNilsson - 10/29/2001 6:23:28 PM
Here is a favourite of mine: The Geographer.
Note how in almost all Vermeer paintings the window is to the left and the light falls in about the same way.
5170. theDiva - 10/29/2001 6:50:58 PM
yes, and there's that map again.
I also notice there is the strong suggestion of L shape on the left side of each painting...note in the first, the red drapery cascading from the ceiling - the tone is picked up in carpet on the table. In the second, the L is suggested by the white wall and in the third, by the drapery again. Very, very nice composition.
5171. Rivendell - 10/29/2001 8:48:21 PM
Went to see a production of King Lear over the weekend at the Repertory Theatre of St. Louis.
Interesting production in many respects. The actor playing Edmund, Conan McCarty, was excellent. Just the right balance of sexual energy and threat. Edgar (Michael Milligan), luckily, was good too. Edgar feigns insanity and Milligan did a good Potty Pete.
Unluckily, the actor playing Lear (Joneal Joplin) was a disappointment. Joplin is a local favorite, for reasons that have always escaped me. He has a glorious voice. And he did an impressive job as Willie Lohman in last season's Death of a Salesman. But as far as I can see his talent is a one gear transmission. And while that worked for Willie it is woefully inadequate for the layers of Lear. Especially when one has had the opportunity to see Ian Holm in the recent television production.
5172. Rivendell - 10/29/2001 8:48:45 PM
If I can be forgiven my parochial interests, the design work for this show was worth the price of admission by itself. Costumes were the weakest of a strong lot. A sort of Mad Max meets Elizabethan view of the mythical past. A cynic might say the costumer made a muddled pass at a post apocalyptic look, but I rather liked it and it certainly did not detract from the production for me.
The scenery was marvelously simple. The floor was trucked in dirt. The only set piece was a huge plexiglass wall angled toward the audience. You could see the actors reflected in the wall. This wall was double sided and fog was shot up through the hollow middle at times. The backdrop, behind the wall, was simply clouds painted on a sky drop. And that was it. A few furniture pieces completed the scenery. Since Elizabethan plays were written to be staged with such simplicity it was nice to see a contemporary production allow the script to do its job.
Saving the best for last, the lighting design was one of the most beautiful I've seen in 15 years of attending plays at the Rep. The designer, Thomas Hase, used color scrollers to marvelous effect. Every scene had just the right atmospheric compliment.
I got a lot of ideas from watching his work.
Interesting choices in the famous "tempest on the heath" scene. The scene started out as a real thunderstorm, but about five minutes into it all the lightning and other storm effects were 'frozen'. IOW, the lightning bolts didn't flash, they just stayed on. And all sound effects ceased. The idea was that the storm continued in Lear's head and was a manifestation of his madness. I liked the idea and the actor needed the help.
It is my understanding this production is being moved to the Cincinnati Playhouse in the Park after it closes here Nov. 9th. That is all the information I have.
5173. theDiva - 10/29/2001 8:51:07 PM
Joneal Joplin? Any relation?
5174. Rivendell - 10/29/2001 9:00:50 PM
To?? Scott Joplin?
5175. theDiva - 10/29/2001 9:05:03 PM
Naturally.
5176. Frankster - 10/29/2001 9:07:45 PM
Wow, those are neat Vermeer posts.
5177. Rivendell - 10/29/2001 9:09:00 PM
I wouldn't have thought so. But one never knows.
Gawd, if so then Scott Joplin certainly did not pass on his brilliance in this case.
5178. Rivendell - 10/29/2001 9:09:54 PM
BTW, the Vermeers are beautiful. I like the first the best, because of the lighting - natch.
5179. Rivendell - 10/29/2001 9:12:50 PM
Franks,
Great minds and all that.
5180. theDiva - 10/29/2001 9:14:41 PM
ha!
Yes, the Vermeers are marvelous. He certainly favored that compositional motif...and the palette is sublime. So soft and yet so rich, at the same time.
When I visit a museum, I particularly love to look at the brushstrokes in a painting. There's something about those tiny, tiny marks in the paint that brings the artist right there with me.
5181. janjon - 10/29/2001 9:33:04 PM
well, you must go apeshit over Van Gogh, Diva.
And, Jackson Pollack.
At any rate, this week's New Yorker also has an architectural critique by Paul Goldberger (formerly architectural critic for the Times)of both the new addition to the Milwaukee Museum and the new Pulitzer in St. Louis, with one picture of each.
The Quadracci Pavilion in Milwaukee was done by Santiago Calatrava, and I gather that this is his first structure in the U.S. From the picture and the description, it is broadly reminscent of the Saarinen TWA building in our City, except that the effect is mostly from a huge wing like structure on the top which actually moves as in flaps. Goldberger is kind in his description. I like the photo, but can't imagine the contraption in motion.
The Pulitzer, however, looks absolutely smashing. Low key and elegant. Austere, but interesting. Goldberger calls it the most important architecture in St. Louis in years but (forgive me Riv) I'm not sure what that praise means. (I speak as someone who thinks that NYC has dropped the ball tremendously in terms of innovative architecture, to our shame.)
5182. Rivendell - 10/29/2001 9:38:21 PM
Hell, it could mean since the Eads Bridge was built in 190(something or other). Or perhaps since the Gateway Arch in the early 60s. St.L. is hardly Chicagoesque when it comes to innovative and interesting architecture. Although I do like the exterior of the new federal courthouse.
The Pulitzer museum sounds more interesting each time it comes up in here.
5183. theDiva - 10/29/2001 9:40:44 PM
jan
Well, I like van Gogh well enough but I don't 'go apeshit' over his brushwork. It's his use of color I enjoy most.
Not crazy about Pollock at all. Did he even bother using a brush?
5184. janjon - 10/29/2001 9:45:11 PM
Riv -
"Ando's two-story concrete building is the greatest work of architecture to go up in St. Louis since 1891, when Louis Sullivan's Wainwright Building - the first skyscraper that can be called a fully resolved, mature work of art - opened. The Pulitzer Foundation and the Wainwright are both small, dense, and emotionally powerful buildings. Ando has thought through the idea of the small museum with the same freshness and honesty that Sullivan brought more than a century ago to the idea of the high-rise office building."
5185. janjon - 10/29/2001 9:46:59 PM
Diva - your point about Pollack and the brush (at least in the work he is famous for) is well taken. I was thinking of the extraordinarily dynamic quality and tension that you can feel in a lot of his work. Much akin to Van Gogh, except that truly is a brush at work.
5186. Jenerator - 10/29/2001 10:03:18 PM
Van Gogh was brilliant.
5187. janjon - 10/29/2001 10:05:44 PM
Van Gogh was insane.
But, he painted o.k.
Tis a shame that so many of his brilliant colors have faded with time.
He didn't have the money for quality supplies.
That wasn't Rothko's problem (a lot of his pictures have faded or turned colors as well). He was just cheap and used Woolworth's as his major supply source for a long period of time.
5188. Rivendell - 10/29/2001 10:06:16 PM
There it is. The Wainwright Building is at least 20 years older than Eads Bridge so I was giving St. Louis architects more than their due.
5189. theDiva - 10/29/2001 10:06:18 PM
Jan
it was actually a very good comparison...their work is similar in that the passion is made so palpable by the application of the paint, if I may restate what I think you are saying.
5190. Jenerator - 10/29/2001 10:07:10 PM
Van Gogh's paints must have been neon, then, because all of his work I've seen has been extremely colorful.
5191. theDiva - 10/29/2001 10:07:16 PM
Pollock and van Gogh, not van Gogh and Rothko, that is.
5192. Jenerator - 10/29/2001 10:08:45 PM
Was it Nova that ran a special suggesting that the latest information on Van Gogh was that he was epileptic?
5193. theDiva - 10/29/2001 10:11:53 PM
I think that this is probably a widely-accepted theory.
5194. Jenerator - 10/29/2001 10:13:36 PM
The show disputed the insanity theory.
5195. theDiva - 10/29/2001 10:17:08 PM
hmmmm....for some reason I thought he was both.
5196. glendajean - 10/29/2001 10:26:01 PM
Towards the end of his life, didn't Rothko make his own paints? I read a mongraph once on his "Chapel" paintings in Houston and remember something about that.
Thanks for the Vermeers, Diva. It is to my eternal shame that I didn't get off work to see them at the National Gallery a few years ago.
5197. janjon - 10/29/2001 10:38:07 PM
Diva. Yes, it was the sense of passion that you can see so palpably in both Van Gogh and Pollack that I was trying to comment on.
And, yes, thanks for the Vermeers. It is to my shame shame shame that I admit that I never quite made it to the Met when they had the Vermeer show last year. More of the very few that exist Vermeers in one place than ever before, as I recall. (I assume this was the same show that was first at the National Gallery.)
5198. Jenerator - 10/30/2001 3:06:34 AM
I spent many an afternoon at the National Gallery. What a place.
5199. Jenerator - 10/30/2001 3:09:14 AM
5200. Al D - 10/30/2001 3:18:27 AM
my first?
5202. theDiva - 10/30/2001 2:06:03 PM
glenda
I am going to have to defer to the Wiz or Wabbit on the Rothko question, as I am nearly certain either of those good people will know the answer.
I'm glad you and Jan enjoyed the Vermeers. We made it to the show (yes, it was at the National Gallery in DC first) and it was lovely.
Jen
Thanks for posting that image. Interesting that's she's facing away from the window.
5203. theDiva - 11/1/2001 10:21:20 PM
okay, so maybe it'll be Artist of the Week, instead.
5204. PelleNilsson - 11/4/2001 10:17:11 PM
The Artist of the Week lived 1497-1543. This is Sir Richard Southwell, an arrogant bastard if I ever saw one.
5205. Rivendell - 11/5/2001 6:29:17 PM
Last Sunday we attended a Jack Gibbons concert at the college where the Mrs. teaches. Jack Gibbons is an English pianist who is, for lack of a better description, a Gershwin scholar.
Gibbons is a classically trained musician. He began performing publicly at age 10 and at 20 won the Newport International Pianoforte Competition. He could easily have made performances of Chopin his life’s work. But several years ago he took an interest in playing Gershwin. However, he was not content with the available published works. He had listened to a recording of Gershwin himself playing and was fascinated by Gershwin’s skill and technique. So Gibbons took it upon himself to transcribe, from the recordings, what Gershwin actually played.
Gibbons used a variety of sources. In the program we heard Gibbons played transcriptions he had taken from movie soundtracks, radio broadcasts and piano rolls, in addition to 78rpm records.
So some of what we heard was material that had never been published and others were arrangements that are not available. For instance, the piano roll version of Rhapsody in Blue contains separate ‘tracks’ that make a single player piano sound as though two people were playing separate pianos. Gibbons played, as he put it, “as much of this as I can myself.” The result is astounding.
5206. Rivendell - 11/5/2001 6:31:39 PM
Gibbons has a website here. If you go there, click on the music samples link and listen to the sample of I’ve Got Rhythm, for one example. It is amazing that Gibbons taught himself these syncopated rhythms by merely (merely, he says) imitating Gershwin’s masterful improvisations. To me it would be like someone with no prior interest in jazz deciding they liked Lester Young and deciding to just play like him.
In fact, I was lucky enough to be able to talk to Gibbons after the concert and asked him if he had studied any other forms of jazz since almost all Gershwin’s songs have become jazz standards. Gibbons said he liked the jazz of the 20s and 30s and he had a passing interest in Art Tatum, but he clearly was interested in Gershwin and everything else was secondary.
5207. Rivendell - 11/5/2001 6:32:40 PM
I suppose, in one sense, one could view Gibbons as a novelty act - how many spinning plates can he keep in the air at once. But I have to respect his dedication and commitment to bringing Gershwin’s skill as a performer back to life. People who actually heard Gershwin play say Gibbons’ performances are uncanny in their recreation of Gershwin’s style and talent. Gibbons is certainly a marvelously talented pianist and he combines this with a charming humility and desire to share his knowledge of Gershwin with the audience. In between numbers Gibbons would tell the audience things he learned about the music and about Gershwin. He helped us to hear layers of the music we would have missed if we were not Gershwin scholars ourselves.
Gibbons will be playing at Carnegie Hall on Nov. 20th. His website lists some other concert dates as well.
5208. Rivendell - 11/5/2001 6:35:22 PM
That link didn't work. Let's try it again
Jack Gibbons
Or you can just type in www.jackgibbons.com
5209. CalGal - 11/7/2001 7:29:47 PM
Hey, GJ, didn't you say you were going to New York this year? Have you heard of Elaine Stritch's show?
It sounds great.
5210. glendajean - 11/7/2001 9:49:13 PM
Excellent review. I hope she will be there when we are.
The other cabaret act that I've always wanted to see is Barbara Cook. She usually does a show at the Carlyle in September when Bobby Short is on hiatus. She, too, is in her 70s now. But I still love to hear her sing.
5211. rubberducky - 11/7/2001 10:00:12 PM
CG, did you hear that the O Brother soundtrack won Album & Single of the Year at the CMAs?
5212. CalGal - 11/7/2001 10:08:51 PM
Ducky--no, I didn't! That's great news. The CMAs were actually on at my brother's house last night (my niece's party again). It was a very good soundtrack, I thought.
5213. CalGal - 11/7/2001 10:11:39 PM
GJ--I thought Stritch was much older than 76. It pisses me off when they do things like cast her as Dyan Cannon's mother, when she was younger than Matthau. (in Out to Sea)
Ditto my annoyance in As Good As It Gets, when Shirley Knight would have made a wonderful quirky love interest for the six months older Jack Nicholson, instead of the mom of a 30 years younger Hunt.
5214. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 11/7/2001 10:12:18 PM
FYI Dpartment: Holbien To Hockney @ Yale's BritMuseum
Re: Rothko was friends with Leonard Bocour, who made most of Rothko's paints -- some of which did deteriorate over time, because Rothko had "weird demands" for paint characteristics.
I know this because I had "Lenny" and his incredibly charming wife as students in a watercolor class on Lago di Garda in Northern Italy.
He would talk for hours about his dealings with many famous NY artists. Alas, he's dead now, but he was a very sweet and likeable man and I cherished meeting him--his first attempts at watercolor weren't bad either.
5215. glendajean - 11/7/2001 11:00:17 PM
Wiz -- thanks for the info.
5216. janjon - 11/7/2001 11:07:53 PM
W.o.W - wow! I had heard a bit about that exhibit at Yale but had no idea it was going to be as extensive as it is. Bacon and Freud are going to stick out a bit, don't you think? And, good thing it apparently is all just painting. Otherwise, they would have had to at least consider one of Hirst's formaldehyded half-cows.
And, indeed, thanks for the comments about Rothko's paint. I guess the story I have always heard about the problem being that he got it in Woolworth's falls into the urban legend category.
Are you familiar with the tale of the Rothkos that Harvard has? Commissioned no less. Proudly displayed (in a dining facility) until the powers that be saw that they were rapidly changing color and becoming more or less not much more than representations of not very interesting mud. I understand that you can still arrange to see them, but tain't easy.
5217. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 11/8/2001 1:58:24 AM
janjon- I look forward to seeing it, but I was a bit disappointed that my favorite Brit,
won't be represented. I guess there are still a lot of American collectors who don't appreciate him yet.
Re: the Harvard Rothkos, I totally forgot about those and you jogged some dusty & clogged dendrites with that post--thanks! I can't even remember if I've seen them.
5218. PelleNilsson - 11/9/2001 9:27:28 PM
I just heard on the radio (a jazz program) that Anita O'Day, 82, lives in misery somewhere in California. What a pity.
5219. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 11/9/2001 11:19:19 PM
Glenda- Sorry, I didn't notice your thanks last time--you're most welcome.
Pelle- A long struggle with booze, I think.
5220. Cellar Door - 11/10/2001 4:38:10 PM
5221. PelleNilsson - 11/12/2001 6:32:41 PM
A piece of the Swedish cultural heritage burned down yesterday. This country church from 1310 was one of the few wooden buildings to survive from that time.
But what made it unique was that the interior was covered by illustrations from the Bible. The wall paintings were from 1323, the roof paintings from 1410.
I have been there. The abundance of images was overwhelming.
What makes it even more tragic is that all signs point to arson. The church had no heating and no electricity.
5222. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 11/12/2001 9:16:27 PM
How tragic--idiocy knows no bounds.
5223. judithathome - 11/12/2001 9:30:24 PM
Pelle, that is heartbreaking....beautiful interior; what a shame. I agree with Wiz...
5224. Property of Jesus - 11/14/2001 8:13:04 PM
Big decision tonight at the Bob Dylan concert at MCI.
Should I buy my 16-year-old a beer?
5225. janjon - 11/14/2001 8:35:30 PM
oh do. But, um, exactly what is the location of the stand from which you will be purchasing? I'd like to make sure that there is a special welcoming group nearby.
5226. judithathome - 11/14/2001 9:25:59 PM
Yes, janjon, I can think of nothing smarter than teaching your kid he can't enjoy a concert without becoming chemically alterted. And with dads blessing, too!
Good lord...what next? Supplying booze for the parties his kid throws at home? Why not order up hookers for the next one, too?
5227. Wombat - 11/14/2001 9:27:25 PM
Typical Potomac parent, I'm afraid.
5228. rubberducky - 11/14/2001 9:29:04 PM
well, raise your hand if you ever thought Property of PinHead was a good parent
5229. judithathome - 11/14/2001 9:32:59 PM
Oh I'm sure he's just trying to be provocative and get a rise out of us; he thinks it's an endearing trait.
5230. janjon - 11/14/2001 9:33:33 PM
all we know for sure is that he would have asked his little question primarily to see what kind of a rise and attention he would receive.
pathetic worm, he.
5231. janjon - 11/14/2001 9:34:32 PM
cross-post with an astute lady.
5232. judithathome - 11/14/2001 9:35:28 PM
Wow, we do that a lot!
Fine by me....
5233. Property of Jesus - 11/14/2001 9:46:40 PM
Oh, get off my cloud.
He knows the rules. He's opus dei, for God's sake. The kid is almost 17, been both to Russia and the Philippines on his own, and having one beer with his old man at a concert won't change that.
I'm taking three of my kids. I want them to say fifty years from now that they saw Bob Dylan in his prime.
5234. judithathome - 11/14/2001 9:47:39 PM
You mean they saw him before they were born?
5235. Property of Jesus - 11/14/2001 9:50:51 PM
Wrong, Judy. The voice may be different but Dylan is better now than the last time I saw him. In 1974 with The Band.
Things Have Changed
5236. janjon - 11/14/2001 9:54:09 PM
Well, he's sucked me right in. Not only will the 16 year old get a little buzz thanks to Dad, the two younger ones will be there just soaking all that good stuff in by osmosis.
dylan's voice never has been a great one. range of what - six notes?
5237. judithathome - 11/14/2001 9:57:57 PM
That's your opinion, Rose...I happen to like his early stuff and while I think he is still good, I would hardly consider this his PRIME. He's certainly doing much better work than other old guys of rock but he and they are NOT in their primes, by any means.
5238. Jenerator - 11/14/2001 9:59:22 PM
PoJ,
If you buy your son a beer, God will be very disappointed in you.
5239. judithathome - 11/14/2001 9:59:31 PM
Thanks for the link, though...I have to run now but marked it for later; want to read the lyrics to Things Have Changed.
5240. Jenerator - 11/14/2001 10:00:46 PM
I don't care for Bob Dylan.
5241. judithathome - 11/14/2001 10:01:10 PM
If you buy your son a beer, God will be very disappointed in you.
This just cries out for a response but I have to leave!
5242. Absensia - 11/14/2001 10:08:45 PM
Is it Thanksgiving already? I just saw a turkey. One that claimed it wouldn't be around until Tday. Turkeys are such stupid birds.
5243. Jenerator - 11/14/2001 10:12:16 PM
Can you believe that the Turkey was almost our national bird!
5244. janjon - 11/14/2001 10:14:28 PM
there are turkeys and there are turkeys. nothing stupid, slow or particularly tasty about the wild turkey.
5245. Jenerator - 11/14/2001 10:16:45 PM
I love turkey and all of the accompanying dishes!
5246. Absensia - 11/14/2001 10:26:24 PM
Is it Thanksgiving already? I just saw a turkey. One that claimed it wouldn't be around until Tday. Turkeys are such stupid birds.
5247. janjon - 11/14/2001 10:27:13 PM
not as absent-minded as you seem to be, perhaps.
5248. Wombat - 11/14/2001 10:30:37 PM
I would have thought pot smoking would be more the thing to do at a Dylan concert. Ya gonna score your kid some weed?
5249. Absensia - 11/14/2001 10:40:06 PM
I am talking about a specific turkey who told us all he was leaving and would not return until Thanksgiving...and came back to talk about buying his kid a beer. Sorry about the double post, not sure how it happened, but let's not get testy, eh?
5250. Absensia - 11/14/2001 10:44:11 PM
Jen, I agree about Thanksgiving, turkey, and all the accompaniments. Maybe we should post what we will be having in the Good Life Thread, hmm?
5251. judithathome - 11/14/2001 10:44:25 PM
I caught it, Abs...funny! He just couldn't stand it; something to crow about and no one to irritate it with!
5252. janjon - 11/14/2001 10:44:55 PM
well, didn't intend for my little reposte to be taken as being testy.
so it goes in cyberspace.
5253. janjon - 11/14/2001 10:46:22 PM
and, must admit, that your joke butt just flew right by me.
I had forgotten that he had told us that we were going to have a vacation from his attentions.
5254. Absensia - 11/14/2001 10:46:28 PM
Good, then I won't take it as such. But when you are as old as I, one has to ask, and soon, or one forgets and gets absent minded. Hahahaha.
so it goes it RL.
Thoought you might, Judith. And you all did quite well.
5255. judithathome - 11/14/2001 10:47:29 PM
joke butt
Too perfect!
5256. Absensia - 11/14/2001 10:48:37 PM
As long as the joke butt flies by you and not over you, Janjon.
5257. janjon - 11/14/2001 10:54:05 PM
that is a truly terrifying thought.
5258. Property of Jesus - 11/15/2001 4:09:49 PM
Bottom line: The boy didn't get his own beer, but shared mine. We spent most of our cash for T-shirts and Chinese dinner near the MCI Center before Dylan concert.
And, yes, lots of middle-aged people sitting near our great seats were smoking weed.
My kids (because it was a Thursday night there weren't a lot of young people at the 2-hour plus concert) got a big kick out of seeing the grown-ups smoking grass. I tried to get some second-hand inhaling going while telling them that it was "just incense."
Set List
5259. Jenerator - 11/15/2001 4:41:24 PM
property of JESUS,
Just when I think I understand you, you go and do something exceptionally weird.
5260. judithathome - 11/15/2001 4:42:30 PM
Like that's unusual....
5261. Jenerator - 11/15/2001 4:43:16 PM
I'm starting to really see this now.
5262. judithathome - 11/15/2001 4:43:43 PM
I loved 10, 12, and 22 off that list.
5263. arkymalarky - 11/15/2001 4:50:35 PM
I told you all again and again that PJ was a chain-yanking Ultra-liberal old hippi. But would you believe me? Nooooooo.
5264. Jenerator - 11/15/2001 4:51:57 PM
His moniker through me off. But I will always trust your lead from now on.
5265. Property of Jesus - 11/16/2001 12:59:51 PM
A review from the Washington Times:
Dylan revels in back pages
5266. PelleNilsson - 11/16/2001 2:22:22 PM
Talking about wooden churches. This is one of Sweden's largest wood constructions, the church in Kiruna, our northernmost city, built 1909-12.
5267. judithathome - 11/16/2001 2:29:52 PM
Pelle, do you have any photos of stave churches? Although that one IS stunning!
5268. justears - 11/16/2001 2:36:57 PM
Property, I recently attended a Dylan Concert in Lennox Mass as a volunteer chaperone for a group of boarding school students. He was great in contrast to the time in the mid-80s when I went to one of his concerts and was forced to leave by the sheer racket. IMO he is still surprising us all and writing great songs. His latest, Love and Theft has some absolutely new and beautiful qualities.
The burned church above is an outrage....like the Buddhas in Afghanistan. Let's hope that in this instance it was at least someone truly out of his or her mind.
5269. Property of Jesus - 11/16/2001 2:46:56 PM
Welcome, justears.
We enjoyed the concert very much, especially one of my daughters.
Yesterday, she tried to get her 7-grade English teacher interested in what she had experienced-- but he claimed that he had never heard of Bob Dylan.
Makes you wonder about the power of the NEA.
5270. judithathome - 11/16/2001 2:52:03 PM
Riiight, rather than about someones personal preference in music.
5271. arkymalarky - 11/16/2001 4:22:51 PM
I think it's a shame that they won't pay teachers professional salaries, so that outside a few dedicated brainiacs like myself they can only attract idiots without even the most basic knowledge. You do get what you pay for, Rose. Thank goodness for organizations like the NEA who recognize that and how important teachers are, and who put pressure on cheapskates like Rose to ensure that his own kids get a quality education from quality professionals.
5272. Property of Jesus - 11/16/2001 4:51:28 PM
What a hoot, buttons.
The English teacher doesn't know of Bob Dylan because you claim he's not paid enough.
Actually, it's because he's Chinese, an immigrant from Taiwan.
Maybe in Arkansas teachers are underpaid, but not Maryland. They average $40-to-$70K for seven months' work, with terrific benefits, especially health care and pension.
And if we have a "hard rain," school is canceled and the parents have to come home from work to teach their kids.
And the administrative staff! Probably three to each teacher.
5273. arkymalarky - 11/16/2001 5:01:29 PM
No, it's because he's stupid and they won't spend the money to hire a smart person and put a dummy out of a job.
All my above post was just being silly, though. As you know I don't even belong to the NEA, AEA, CTA, or any other union. When they begin promoting my interests, I'll begin to put some of my meager salary into membership. It will never happen, though.
I have, however, succeeded in yanking your chain a bit! You rose to the surface like a big-mouthed bass to a fly.
5274. justears - 11/16/2001 6:55:25 PM
Dylan is now anthologized in the Norton Anthology of English Poetry. I teach him to Sophomore Honors English. I don't know any teachers working 7 months. But if they are, they are working a lot more than a 40 hr./wk.
Thanks for the greeting.
5275. arkymalarky - 11/16/2001 7:57:28 PM
Hey, I remember now that we share the same job. I've been enjoying your contributions in Poetry, btw.
5276. Property of Jesus - 11/16/2001 8:08:58 PM
Not only are you welcomed, justears. You're unique. You are one of the first new people here since last spring. Congratulations on getting through the email maze.
Think of yourself as Marco Polo, and the mote China.
High school honors English, yes? Wow, what a gig.
My oldest son is doing an honors course on Moby Dick and King Lear this year.
Buttons teaches leftist political "science" to Arkansas high school kids. Isn't that a hoot?
And, yes, good teachers work a lot more than 40 hours a week during the school year. But in Maryland, they only teach between 160 and 170 days a year. That's why I say 7 months.
Bob Dylan, Clearing Away the Foggy Ruins of Time
5277. arkymalarky - 11/16/2001 8:11:47 PM
I also teach AP English.
Scary, isn't it?
And Justears isn't new.
5278. justears - 11/16/2001 11:38:15 PM
Thanks for the link Property. I had a great view and a pair of binoculars. Transfixed. Dylan just came out played like a serious professional and hardly cracked a smile the entire evening. He didn't say a word to the audience. The band was tight but very little by way of gesture or goofing around. He is playing at CT casino, the Mohegan Sun, on tuesday and I am thinking about going.
Thanks for the kind comments. I have lurked on the mote off and on and contributed now & then first under moniker "beyond" then "paragate" and now.... I had trouble with my password and so started anew. I was tiring of paragate anyway.
Is there a way of searching the mote by moniker?
5279. Property of Jesus - 11/17/2001 1:32:53 AM
Never reveal personal information out here, justears.
We have one poster in particular, CharlieL, who if he doesn't like your politics, will use it to publish your name, home address and phone number.
5280. PelleNilsson - 11/17/2001 9:31:03 PM
Judith
In Sweden only one stave church has survived and it is a quite modest building:
It is from the early 16th century which is surprising because the building technique had been abandoned by then. Archeologists have found the remains of an earlier stave church that burned down, so the explanation may be that a conservative parish wanted the new church to be like the old one.
Norway has quite a few stave churches. Maybe you saw some when you visited? One of the most well-known is in Borgunda in south Norway:
There are also stave churches in the Tatra mountains on the border between Poland and Slovakia but I couldn't find any good pictures.
5281. PelleNilsson - 11/17/2001 9:43:13 PM
Talking about the Tatra, here is the Tatraplan, a car producet in Czechoslovakia 1947-52. I remember as a boy that spotting a Tatraplan caused great excitement.
5282. PelleNilsson - 11/17/2001 9:53:17 PM
Car design was more idiosyncratic back then. Here is a 1951 Dyna Panhard décapotable.
5283. judithathome - 11/18/2001 4:56:38 AM
The play we attended on Saturday was wonderful. Someone Who'll Watch Over Me is the story of three hostages being held in Lebanon during the late 1980s. Frank McGuinness wrote the Tony nominated play in 1992 and based the characters of two of the three hostages on Brian Keenan, an Irish teacher and John McCarthy, an English journalist, who were incarcerated together for four years.
The three actors who portrayed the hostages were fantastic. You'd think this play would have been depressing but it wasn't, not by any means. It was 2 hours and 50 minutes and everyone agreed it wasn't too long at all. Sound clips of remarks by Lyndon Johnson about the Viet Nam war and by George H. W. Bush about the Gulf War were used during scene changes and were very effective. You couldn't help but think of Afghanistan and what is taking place there when the characters discussed the way their jailers perceived the world, so different from their own experience and belief.
It was an entertaning and extremely thought provoking play and one which I highly recommend if anyone does it in your town
5284. Property of Jesus - 11/18/2001 3:29:07 PM
The cute Beatle becomes political...
Yesterday: All those troubles may have seemed so far away. But now it looks as though they're here to stay--and Paul McCartney thinks we bloody well ought to be doing something about it.
5285. janjon - 11/19/2001 7:40:21 PM
There is a very nice article by Gail King in yesterday's Wall Street Journal about, first, the new Pulitzer "museum" designed by Tadao Ando and, second, about the established and developing arts scene in St. Louis. She calls the Pulitzer an "exquisitely designed jewel box." It has a new Serra called "Joe" (as in Joseph Pulitzer), and a number of other very interesting sounding pieces.
Makes one want to visit St. Louis.
5287. janjon - 11/19/2001 7:41:47 PM
yes, I do know how that happened. I hiccoughed just after I had pressed the mouse to post and ergo I pressed again in conjuction with said hiccough.
Sorry about that.
5288. theDiva - 11/19/2001 7:44:15 PM
Jan
Following your last discussion with Riv about the Pulitzer, I went looking for pictures but couldn't find any...are you able to supply one or two?
St. Louis is a marvelous town with plenty to see and do both in town and the outlying areas. Beautiful scenery, lovely wine country, the Scott Joplin House, the Cathedral, and of course the Cardinals at Busch stadium. I guarantee you'd be neither bored nor disappointed.
5289. theDiva - 11/19/2001 7:44:43 PM
not to fret, I shall fix it.
5290. janjon - 11/19/2001 7:49:36 PM
Diva - not really. There is one in the Journal, but no way I can get a link to that. I think that Riv linked to a site that had some pictures somewhere up above.
The building doesn't look spectacular from the outside. Very clean lines, though. Reminescent somewhat of Bauhaus and the houses(!!)done in the 30s and 40s by Neutra and Schindler in Los Angeles.
5291. Property of Jesus - 11/23/2001 12:21:36 AM
BOB DYLAN CELEBRATES NEW YORK CITY
"You don't have to ask me how I feel about this town," Bob Dylan shouted at his sold out Madison Square Garden show. "Most of these songs were written here and the ones that weren't were recorded here."
5292. Cellar Door - 11/23/2001 5:46:38 PM
Margo Jefferson nails Franzen's loathesome snobbery.
5293. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 11/23/2001 6:30:50 PM
I don't know about that, Cellar.
I mistrust the fact that Jefferson ignored that Franzen admitted on Rose (in hindsight) that he mishandled the whole Oprah incident because of his lack of experience and understanding of Oprah's show.
I remember the Terri Gross interview, where he kind of stepped in it. I think he was trying to be funny about the whole thing rather than snobbish.
Jefferson seems to have an agenda which, I have no doubt, carries much validity regarding the literary world; but I have to wonder if envy isn't also a factor in her jeremiad.
5294. judithathome - 11/23/2001 6:40:04 PM
Well, if he was so upset about being chosen, he should have declined. But I think he will like the royalities he gets from all the Oprah readers, don't you?
If he's STILL upset when those checks come rolling in, let him donate them to charity...a childrens literacy group or some such.
5295. Cellar Door - 11/23/2001 6:48:13 PM
Of course he admitted in hindsight that he mishandled the whole thing! It's like saying that the sun will rise tomorrow. What's interesting in jefferson'spiece is the way she nails class interest triggered by gender warfare.
Chicks aren't supposed to understand The Corrections ya know. Serious Literature is for guys. Right?
5296. judithathome - 11/23/2001 6:50:05 PM
And serious literature is for people other than those who watch TV and know who Martha Stewart is, too...
5297. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 11/23/2001 6:51:47 PM
Hey J@H--Happy Holidays!
[I thought of you when my neice broke a very expensive wine goblet at her sister's Thanksgiving dinner-table. They're rivals and it caused a Maalox Moment.]
5298. judithathome - 11/23/2001 6:53:32 PM
I'm sorry to hear that...hope your neice and her sister come to realize glasses can be replaced but sisters can't.;-)
5299. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 11/23/2001 6:54:25 PM
Cellar- Is it a holdover from ye olden Updike/Cheever, et al days?
5300. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 11/23/2001 6:55:42 PM
Judith- It's what the entire family is hoping will eventually happen.
5301. Cellar Door - 11/23/2001 7:15:18 PM
In some ways, Wiz. But there's a new desperation now. Everything in this culture is "product for sale." Pretense to the Ivory Tower is just that -- pretense.
5302. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 11/23/2001 9:35:34 PM
Ahh yes--meretriciousness feigning nobility of spirit--The Divine Comedy continues.
5303. Absensia - 11/24/2001 5:17:36 PM
The Getty has a nice little online exhibition called the Devices of Wonder
5304. theDiva - 11/27/2001 2:31:04 PM
RIP Norman Granz...thanks for the music.
5305. theDiva - 11/27/2001 2:34:36 PM
Now that is one marvelous obituary.
If you've not checked out any Jazz at the Philharmonic recordings, I strongly urge you to do so. You will hear some of the most brilliant, vibrant performances ever recorded.
5306. Property of Jesus - 11/28/2001 4:02:27 PM
A wonderful piece of creative writing by Greil Marcus in the Sunday edition of the New York Times on "LOVE & THEFT". It's actually a review...
Bob Dylan: Sometimes He Talks Crazy, Crazy Like a Song
5307. Property of Jesus - 11/28/2001 4:54:03 PM
WHILE MY GUITAR GENTLY WEEPS...
FADING STAR: George Harrison Reportedly Losing Cancer Battle
5308. CalGal - 11/29/2001 9:34:02 AM
He died at 1:30 pm yesterday in LA.
5309. stostosto - 11/29/2001 10:23:55 AM
Shit! George Harrison is dead?!
That's really sad.
5310. theDiva - 11/29/2001 1:39:58 PM
damn....
5311. Property of Jesus - 11/29/2001 1:54:21 PM
PAUL McCARTNEY MOURNS HIS BEATLE "BABY BROTHER"
5312. Rivendell - 11/29/2001 6:16:39 PM
Have been extremely busy lately and will continue to be for another couple of weeks, but George Harrison's death deserves at least a comment.
Harrison was, of course, known as the "Quiet Beatle". I suppose quietness is relative, however Harrison was involved in a number of noteworthy projects beyond the Beatles. As POJs link above mentions, Harrison showed Bob Geldof the concert fund raising way with the first of that breed in his Concert for Bangladesh. Harrison's company produced The Life of Brian and Time Bandits. And Harrison was instrumental in assembling the talent for The Traveling Wilburys.
It is obvious, to me at least, that Harrison attracted talented people to himself and inspired creativity. A noble life for any artist in any medium.
Frank Sinatra called Something the greatest love song of all time.
I can't think of anything to add to that.
5313. Rivendell - 11/29/2001 6:17:25 PM
While I'm here. Thanks to all of you who have continued to post to this thread. Some good stuff up there.
5314. CalGal - 11/29/2001 6:35:35 PM
I think Frank said something to the effect of "The greatest love song ever written is Something, by McCartney and Lennon."
Paul told that story often, always when asked about Harrison's talent, and always ended by tipping an imaginary hat, "Thanks, Frank."
Harrison was also involved in The Rutles, which I thought quite funny. It's been clear for a number of years that the cancer had gotten to him, so I wasn't surprised by his death. Still, it's sad to see him go.
5315. ronski - 11/30/2001 6:38:36 PM
A good writer's take on Harrison, here.
5316. CalGal - 11/30/2001 6:51:17 PM
I thought the Post writer did a job, as well.
This sentence, here: Though John and Paul each coveted the lead guitar spot, they yielded to Harrison's superior fret skills. says a great deal about the Beatles and why they were so successful.
5317. CalGal - 11/30/2001 6:51:50 PM
Hmm. There was a "great" before "job", when I posted it.
5318. wabbit - 12/1/2001 12:17:54 AM
5319. ronski - 12/1/2001 4:46:06 AM
I am reminded of such sadness, and loss.
5320. judithathome - 12/1/2001 6:19:28 AM
Here's the site of the potter whose open house we attended today...we own three of her works: two rakus and a custom made clock.
5321. ronski - 12/1/2001 5:54:49 PM
Very nice stuff. I've saved her page.
5322. judithathome - 12/1/2001 6:04:04 PM
She's as beautiful a person as her work is....very gracious and warm individual.
5323. ronski - 12/1/2001 6:20:37 PM
I wanted to add that in CA I saw some very pretty crackle-glaze pots that were not expensive (mass produced), but they had these art deco metal tops on that I didn't care for all that much. Some of her stuff looks very much like those pretty glazes I was admiring in that shop. I prefer the tight crackling to the large, but it's all nice. And the brownish, arts-and-crafts looking wall sconce was great.
5324. judithathome - 12/1/2001 6:38:55 PM
My friend bought 2 of those last night, the one with the pewter colored top and the other which was more like the brown colored one. I'm waiting til we have our bathroom redone and am going to ask her to make us a bowl sink which sits on top of the counter.
5325. judithathome - 12/11/2001 6:27:35 PM
This is an interesting take on skyscrapers by Prince Charles.
5326. Property of Jesus - 12/16/2001 4:37:04 AM
Highly recommended....
The DVD of "Annie Lennox: Live in Central Park"
What a beautiful woman and talented artist.
5327. judithathome - 12/16/2001 4:51:17 PM
Just saw this singer called Jill Scott on Regis (I know, shame on me...) and she is really good. Very bluesy and jazzy. She is also very pretty. Anyone heard of her? She's from Philadelphia...has a CD called Experience which comes with explicit lyrics or in what they call the clean version. Seriously...would that make the "explicit" version dirty?
5328. glendajean - 12/16/2001 5:27:13 PM
Just spent a 5 days in NYC ....
We saw six shows (which fulfills my homo CEU credits for the next year).
Highlights:
The Producers: as good as the hype. Funny, never a dull moment. Lane and Broderick give it their all. The "Springtime for Hitler" moment is so over the top that I would like to see it again. Hell, I would like to see the whole thing again, but at least I got to see it with this cast.
The Music Man: closing this month, Robert Sean Leonard plays Professor Harold Hill. Unlike Craig Bierko, he does not channel the late Robert Preston. He is incredibly energetic and cool and tightly wound, but he gave his Hill a meaner and more intelligent edge. Rebecca Lukor (sp?), who has always played Miriam the Librarian in this production has a beatiful strong voice. This show was a wonderful surprise.
Elaine Stritch at Liberty -- She boozed and acted with all the greats and has a story or two to tell. With a full orchestra in a 200 or so seat theater at the Public, she sang all her signature songs (Broadway Baby, Zipped, and The Ladies Who Lunch) and did an insightful version of I'm Still Here.
She dated Marlon Brando (they were students together at the Actors Studio) and understudied Ethel Merman in Call Me Madam. She told a hilarious story about doing the Merman show and getting cast in Pal Joey revival. When Richard Rogers decided to have a week of try-outs in New Haven, she had to check in with Merman each evening at 7:30 then take off for Connecticut in time for her 10:15 pm entrance to sing Zipped. It was a very funny story.
5329. glendajean - 12/16/2001 5:28:00 PM
We also saw the new American Folk Art Museum and did a touchstone tour of oldie favorites at the Met.
5330. theDiva - 12/19/2001 6:05:45 PM
Christi
Did LD watch it with you?! What did she think of the brilliant Victor Goines (handsome young clarinetist, short dark hair, round glasses)?
Re-posted from the Christmas thread:
284. marjoribanks - 12/20/01 10:31:57 AM
Has there ever been a greater American artist and cultural ambassador than Duke Ellington?
I cannot understand why I was not taught about him at length in school, all American children should grow up having experienced his music and learned about the great man.
---
ITA about Duke, he is equalled in that respect only by Pops. To your second point, a couple of years back, I think it was in the Fray, the Ms. and I had a very long discussion about this. I am adamant that there is a huge gaping hole, which demands to be filled, in American elementary music education because it doesn't include jazz and more specifically, Ellington. If children don't grow up in homes where this music is part of life, even occasionally, they miss so much.
5331. PelleNilsson - 12/19/2001 6:32:06 PM
I think Count Basie should be added to the list. He and Duke used to come over here every two or three years. They were, indeed, very effective ambassadors for America. I don't remember if Pops was ever here but I don't think so. To the extent that he toured Europe at all he must have kept to the UK and France.
5332. theDiva - 12/19/2001 6:35:54 PM
I'm sure Pops toured just about everywhere. And I'd add Diz to the list of effective jazz ambassadors.
5333. PelleNilsson - 12/19/2001 6:38:24 PM
Prove it. No not Diz. He never had the same following.
5334. stostosto - 12/19/2001 6:45:39 PM
Pops was here at least once, he was the object of huge celebration, swimming in Danish girlie arms, and loving every minute of it (as well he should!). He even appeared in a Danish movie.
I totally agree about Duke Ellington. He is eminently canon material.
5335. theDiva - 12/19/2001 7:13:05 PM
prove what?
5336. christipeters - 12/19/2001 7:17:40 PM
Diva - No, LD didn't see it with me although I'm sure she could hear it. She was in my room on my computer, working hard on a science report. My bedroom door is only about 6 feet from where the TV is and I noticed the door stayed open. Usually, if she's in there working on a school project and I am watching TV, she'll close the door.
I'll confess, I only watched the first 45 minutes, though. I was exhausted and went to bed early last night. I hope they do rerun it this weekend or something so I can record the whole thing.
5337. theDiva - 12/19/2001 7:17:51 PM
5338. christipeters - 12/19/2001 7:18:29 PM
"I am adamant that there is a huge gaping hole, which demands to be filled, in American elementary music education because it doesn't include jazz and more specifically, Ellington."
I agree.
5339. theDiva - 12/19/2001 7:19:25 PM
dang, you missed the best part, then! I'm sure PBS will rerun it. Incidentally, if she is still playing clarinet, you also ought to turn her on to Don Byron, an excellent musician, via his 'Bug Music' CD.
5340. theDiva - 12/19/2001 7:21:02 PM
oops.
anywho, this is where we come in. If this music is an every day part of our lives, and our enthusiasm is natural, it can only serve to spark our childrens' interest and appreciation. Gracie is third generation living proof of this.
5341. theDiva - 12/19/2001 7:21:18 PM
now?
5342. theDiva - 12/19/2001 7:22:55 PM
Pelle
Diz is not a composer of Ellington's breadth and stature but he certainly is close to him in terms of innovation and being a goodwill ambassador for jazz.
5343. christipeters - 12/19/2001 7:26:19 PM
ooops, sorry about leaving the toy lying around
5344. PelleNilsson - 12/19/2001 8:00:26 PM
Diva
As an ambassador for jazz, yes, but not as a good-will ambassador for America, which Duke, Count and Pops undoubtedly were.
5345. PelleNilsson - 12/19/2001 8:00:59 PM
Diva
As an ambassador for jazz, yes, but not as a good-will ambassador for America, which Duke, Count and Pops undoubtedly were.
And Ella.
5346. marjoribanks - 12/19/2001 8:04:41 PM
I just went and looked for The Ellington version of the Nutcracker Suite in a few CS stores around Union Square. No luck. Tis a pity, I'm all charged to own that piece of music to play over these holidays.
For me, Ellington stands above the other jazz composing greats, partly due to his demeanor (which may be irrelevant to most), and partly because his scope was so ambitious and daring, yet "classic." There is also something very uniquely and indefinably American about his music, full of the best things this country has to offer.
I think I've mentioned before that my parents went to see him in Bombay on one of their first dates, this was the trip that later resulted in The Far East Suite. There is no one in contemporary American arts with anything like the stature of Duke Ellington.
5347. marjoribanks - 12/19/2001 8:05:39 PM
Oh yes, I agree with everything you say about education. It is a crying shame that this unique and powerful aspect of the heritage is ignored in American schools.
5348. theDiva - 12/19/2001 8:09:05 PM
Pelle
I wish I had my copy of Jazz Anecdotes with me...there are any number of stories about Diz which will bear out what I mean. I will bring it in tomorrow and post one or two.
Banks
His demeanor is so much a part of his greatness...his elegance and dignity flow through his music, even in its bawdiest and most intimate moments.
5349. marjoribanks - 12/19/2001 8:15:20 PM
.his elegance and dignity flow through his music,
Exactly. Well put. He was a dignified and class act all the way.
5350. theDiva - 12/19/2001 8:18:35 PM
Wynton said that Duke was a 'great flirter' (what a New-Orleanism!); once at a party, Duke complimented a young woman on her beauty. The young woman said 'Oh, my goodness, you should see me in the morning without my makeup!' to which Duke replied 'What would one have to do to be so fortunate.'
A ladykiller. No doubt.
5351. Rivendell - 12/20/2001 5:28:09 AM
Diva,
Thanks for checking in here and showiong up my sorry ass.
Pelle,
How can you say Diz was not a goodwill ambassador for America?
And regarding jazz education -
I came late to an appreciation of jazz. I knew I liked it, but knew nothing about it. Diva, of course, has been instrumental (pun intended) in alleviating some of my ignorance. What I have learned jives exactly with marjoribanks comment. Jazz is a unique expression of what it means to be an American. Our children lose part of their heritage if they remain ignorant of it.
5352. Rivendell - 12/20/2001 5:30:13 AM
Duke is the best.
Fraaaank,
Listen to the attitude behind Duke's music.
Then learn how to cook.
You've heard this from me before.
Trust me.
5353. Rivendell - 12/20/2001 5:30:38 AM
Showoing??
5354. Rivendell - 12/20/2001 5:32:43 AM
Have seen several plays and will be reporting on them soon, but not now. One was Shakespeare, one was a Shakespeare knock-off and one was a holiday piece of fluff.
But it was fun fluff.
5355. Rivendell - 12/20/2001 5:37:17 AM
Glenda,
You make me yearn to go back to NYC with your reviews.
I've been on trips that crammed 7 shows into 5 days (with Wed. and Sat. matinees or a late show on Sat.) If I got any credits for them could you give them to someone who could use them?
I'd love to see The Producers. We've watched the film so often my son can quote lines from it.
Although his mother was less than thrilled with the prospect he might go to second grade saying, "Don't be stupid. Be a schmartie. Come and join the Nazi Party."
5356. PelleNilsson - 12/20/2001 7:00:22 AM
Rivendell
I didn't say that. If we were to make up a list of jazz musicians who were goodwill ambassadors for America it would be a very long one indeed. I said that he was not in the same class as Duke, Count, Pops and Ella.
5357. theDiva - 12/20/2001 1:37:55 PM
In what sense?
5358. stostosto - 12/20/2001 1:49:33 PM
In the sense that Pelle didn't like him as much.
5359. theDiva - 12/20/2001 1:54:18 PM
hahahaha
how are you, stobabe?
5360. stostosto - 12/20/2001 2:09:43 PM
I am reeking of ambivalence, Diviebaby! And thank you for asking.
How's yourself? Are you gonna do Händel's Messiah this year?
5361. theDiva - 12/20/2001 2:20:25 PM
Well, thanks for clearing that up, I wondered what that scent was.
I'm okay, have a bit of a sore throat which is not good, as I have to sing Christmas day. We're doing traditional Christmas songs, gospel style.
5362. stostosto - 12/20/2001 2:58:58 PM
Well, thanks for clearing that up, I wondered what that scent was.
Yes, it was actually Pelle who cleared it up for me some time ago.
5363. stostosto - 12/20/2001 3:05:57 PM
Traditional christmas songs, like for instance what?
Come all ye faithful? Sing A Song Of Joy And Laughter? Gloria in excelsis deo?
Or perhaps more like White Christmas? I Saw Mama Kissing Santa Claus? Santa Claus Is Coming To Town? Last Christmas (I Gave You My Heart)?
(I bet you are singing Silent Night)
You see I am making a list, and checking it twice.
5364. theDiva - 12/20/2001 3:16:34 PM
Adestes Fideles, Angels We Have Heard on High, Silent Night, and a few others, plus Jesus The Light of the World, which is straight gospel.
5365. stostosto - 12/20/2001 3:21:47 PM
Of those I only know Silent Night. (The well-known Danish Christmas song).
5366. judithathome - 12/20/2001 3:30:41 PM
Y'all should do Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree...
5367. marjoribanks - 12/20/2001 3:51:32 PM
Sto,
You don't know Adeste Fidelis? That's a big Catholic Christmas hymn, no matter where you happen to be in the world.
5368. stostosto - 12/20/2001 3:53:00 PM
(Marj -- Denmark is not a Catholic country).
5369. marjoribanks - 12/20/2001 3:55:14 PM
I'm aware of that, sto. But I imagine you do have some Catolicos, somewhere.
Anyway, Adeste Fidelis is a standard. I even have a version sung by Luciano Pavarotti.
5370. marjoribanks - 12/20/2001 3:59:24 PM
Anyway, on Christmas Eve, my family and assorted relatives and friends are going to the Met museum, to listen to a some choir sing carols near this Neapolitan baroque creche.
5371. theDiva - 12/20/2001 4:08:33 PM
I do miss the Neapolitan tree and display.
5372. theDiva - 12/20/2001 4:10:52 PM
Sto
You might know Adeste Fideles as Oh, Come All Ye Faithful.
We're also doing Joy to the World, I just remembered.
5373. stostosto - 12/20/2001 4:15:46 PM
Deev,
I know that one, I even mentioned it in Message # 5363. I thought it was an original English christmas carol.
5374. stostosto - 12/20/2001 4:16:22 PM
We're also doing Joy to the World, I just remembered.
Hmmm. What is that in Latin?
5375. glendajean - 12/20/2001 4:16:48 PM
Riv -- we had a great time. When my partner and I lived in DC, we tried to go to NYC three times a year and did just what you said. We always bought tickets in advance for the one or two shows that we knew we wanted to see (often several months in advance). Then when we got there, we went to the World Trade Center (tower 2 -- mezzanine) to get tickets at the TKTS booth. It was indoors and not as crowded. They sell matinee tickets for the next day in addition to the daily tickete sale, something that didn't happen at the Times Square booth.
The WTC TKTS booth is now in Bowling Green in the Battery in a temporary booth.
Marj -- the creche is one of the touchstones we stopped by on our visit to NYC last week. The Radio City Music Hall Christmas show "recreates" the creche in its over the top finale. Which is kind of funny. We had to see it for the in-laws from Texas.
Sto - Adeste Fideles is often known in the United States as "O Come All Ye Faithful."
Our Episcopalian parish had our traditional "Lessons and Carols" last Sunday evening. We will be singing in England this summer for two weeks, doing a week each at a couple of cathedrals south of London.
5376. glendajean - 12/20/2001 4:17:45 PM
Diva -- sorry about the x-post.
5377. marjoribanks - 12/20/2001 4:22:55 PM
Glenda,
Your trip sounds fantastic, and seems to have hit all the really good things about NYC this time of year.
Though I am definitely not a churchgoer anymore, we're all also doing something that is very nostalgic and special this Christmas. Mass at St. Patrick's, a walk around and through the Rockefeller Center area, and then a walk up 5th Avenue to the rink at Central Park.
5378. theDiva - 12/20/2001 4:26:34 PM
no prob, GJ.
Sto, I am addled. You did indeed say that. Not sure what the Latin is for Joy to the World.
5379. glendajean - 12/20/2001 4:31:17 PM
Of course, there was Three Dog Night's version of "Joy to the World."
5380. marjoribanks - 12/20/2001 4:37:45 PM
i've always really liked 'Blue Christmas', the Elvis version.
5381. judithathome - 12/20/2001 4:40:11 PM
I have a traditional one that seldom gets included:
Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer
5382. theDiva - 12/20/2001 4:42:55 PM
Especially not at 11:00 a.m. Mass on Christmas Day.
5383. glendajean - 12/20/2001 5:23:43 PM
New Lucien Freud portrait of Betty Windsor can be found here.
5384. judithathome - 12/20/2001 5:26:37 PM
the greatest living British painter,
This can't be true, can it?
5385. wonkers2 - 12/20/2001 10:43:33 PM
Yes.
5386. CalGal - 12/25/2001 10:01:23 PM
Cellar, did you see this?
Larry Kramer Gets Liver Transplant
That's wonderful. I had thought he was dying of AIDS, not end-stage liver failure. Turns out he hasn't even crossed over from HIV to AIDS.
5387. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 12/25/2001 11:09:50 PM
Well, if it was a true Lucian Freud, it would have looked like this . . .
5388. judithathome - 12/25/2001 11:40:31 PM
Very funny...I think I'll pass.
5389. mgleason - 12/25/2001 11:41:56 PM
I saw a portrait that Freud did of the Duchess of Devonshire when she was still a young woman that makes her look like Daphne Du Maurier's Rebecca after they fished her up. His stuff always makes me think of P D James' The Skull Beneath the Skin.
5390. judithathome - 12/25/2001 11:43:27 PM
Great call, MG...I wonder if his eyes have ever been tested?
5391. mgleason - 12/25/2001 11:49:50 PM
First his subconscious, J, then the eyes!
5392. judithathome - 12/25/2001 11:52:11 PM
Well, it just seems odd to me that everyone looks jaundiced and bruised to him. I guess it could be the subconscious doing that, though.
5393. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 12/25/2001 11:54:51 PM
LOL! My favorite Brit painter, Frank Auerbach, would have really done a job on The Queen given the opportunity . . .
5394. Jenerator - 12/27/2001 5:16:12 AM
One of my favorites.
5395. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/2/2002 7:28:03 AM
Sunday, I went to the final day of an exhibition entitled: Great British Paintings In American Collections - Holbein to Hockney at the Yale Center for British Art.
There were no Auerbachs, but there was a Freud and it struck me that it may be necessary to know about Stanley Spencer in order to appreciate Lucien Freud.
There is a wonderful continuity in British art that American art seems to have lost.
5396. thoughtful - 1/2/2002 4:04:23 PM
Wiz, I was there last week and enjoyed it...my first time in the museum and I was impressed with the regular collection as well as the special exhibit. Hope to return sometime soon.
5397. justears - 1/2/2002 4:20:29 PM
Wiz & Thoughtful, I was there a couple of weeks ago also. It was one of the best exhibitions they have put up in the past few years. There is an interesting article on Bacon's studio in a recent issue of "Tate". He would undoubtedly win the award for working amid the biggest mess in the history of art.
5398. marjoribanks - 1/2/2002 4:47:56 PM
That Spencer reference is very interesting, Wiz. I must check it out further, since I have great appreciation for Freud.
5399. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/2/2002 5:12:00 PM
Ha-it really is a small world!
I remember the shock--the first time I saw pictures of Bacon's studio.
5400. thoughtful - 1/2/2002 5:30:41 PM
Actually, that last shot was a picture of Bacon...buried under all that mess....any relation of the Collier bros?
5401. justears - 1/2/2002 6:37:59 PM
The British Art Center is in stark contrast to the Yale Art Gallery across the street. Both Louis Kahn buildings, but BAC is inviting while YAG is a nightmare, low, insect-hive ceilings about to turn the viewer into a waffle. Amazing renovation in the YAG American wing however.
5402. glendajean - 1/2/2002 7:22:01 PM
Wiz -- The Hirschorn Museum did a Stanley Spencer exhibit when I lived in DC. I ended up seeing it a couple of times.
5403. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/2/2002 9:45:46 PM
thoughtful- I love the Velazquez reproduction of his inbred King Philp of Spain!
ears- You're right on -- I love the stairwell with the stainless ornamentation with the concrete fretwork dividing the floors. I guess it proves that people can grow in their prifesssions.
gj- When was this? I don't remember one.
5404. judithathome - 1/2/2002 10:14:09 PM
Wiz, have you ever been to the Kimbell here in Ft. Worth?
5405. thoughtful - 1/2/2002 10:20:59 PM
There was one I can't remember the name of but it is owned by the Wadsworth Museum and it was on the end of the hall, you passed Dante's hell on the left, and went straight ahead down to the very end...a mythical picture I thought of some sort with a woman in it...lots of deep royal and cobalt blues with pink and reddish accents. I decided to do my powder room in those colors.
5406. thoughtful - 1/2/2002 10:25:33 PM
Sorry Wiz, don't know the painting to which you refer. I'm no connoisseur as you can guess and we spent very little time in the museum, unfortunately.
Was it this?
5407. judithathome - 1/2/2002 10:37:26 PM
I have nothing to add; just wanted to get that Freud pic off the top of my screen.
5408. glendajean - 1/2/2002 10:41:26 PM
Wiz -- it was either in 97 or 98. Lot of religious symbolism, and he was torn over some lost love. A bit of an eccentric, and visonary and interesting.
5409. glendajean - 1/2/2002 11:14:27 PM
I had a friend who visited me from out of town and we went to a Dove exhibit at the Phillips and the Spencer exhibit at the Hirschorn. I ended up going back to the Hirschorn to see the Spencer exhibit on my own. And I think I glanced at again one other time.
5410. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/3/2002 7:02:11 AM
judith- Alas no, but I have it on my list of museums for our VW-Camper Watercolors Across America Tour that we are now starting to plan.
thoughtful- The Lady Of Shallot by William Holman Hunt?
gj- Thanks Glenda; I must have missed it and I'm at a total loss for why an exhibition of Spencer's work would even be shown there.
5411. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/3/2002 8:31:23 AM
J@H- That wasn't a Lucian Freud pic; it was a Wow-Freud meld . . .and I'm devastated!
5412. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/3/2002 8:32:11 AM
(g)
5413. thoughtful - 1/3/2002 2:29:33 PM
Wiz, you are a wiz! That was it...exquisite. Any wonder that I'm also a fan of Maxfield Parrish?
5414. judithathome - 1/3/2002 2:56:53 PM
Wiz, I'll try to make it up to you by giving you a break from camper food when you come to my fair city on your tour...
5415. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/3/2002 6:05:52 PM
thoughtful- I have a feeling you might like this artist. Like Parrish, he also lived in New Hampshire and was a fan of mountains and women.
Judith- Deal! [Provided I can tip the cook&waitress with a watercolor?]
5389. mgleason - 12/26/01 10:41:56 PM
I saw a portrait that Freud did of the Duchess of Devonshire when she was still a young woman that makes her look like Daphne Du Maurier's Rebecca after they fished her up. His stuff always makes me think of P D James' The Skull Beneath the Skin.
5416. judithathome - 1/3/2002 6:18:01 PM
Wiz, you'd better have the food before deciding on the tip! ;-)
I remember that piece...it was in a series you did after your mother had passed? Or if not, something similar...
5417. theDiva - 1/3/2002 6:22:25 PM
what is this about a Wiz road trip?
If my paesan passes through the DC metro area without sharing a dish of my famous eggplant pasta, I don't know what I'll do!
5418. judithathome - 1/3/2002 6:24:16 PM
Deev, let's plan the menus in an attempt to hurry him on his way!
I'm thinking poached salmon and a risotto...
5419. theDiva - 1/3/2002 6:25:12 PM
shoot, for that I'll hitch a ride....
5420. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/3/2002 7:07:47 PM
LOL! Such sweet spirits linger here!!!
Judith-Yes it is the same work but I've tried to polish up the description and I've included some new details of the various pieces.
Deev- I treasure my '99 Passat and I've had a Jones for the Winnebago-converted VW Camper/EuroVan for a couple of years now. With my wife retiring from Gov' service (I'm sure you can relate) within a year or two, we are both hot for North American exploration.
As far as the menu goes, ladies--I'm yours completely!
thoughtful- I forgot to mention that Thayer also experimented & advanced the idea of camouflage during the first world war.
5421. thoughtful - 1/3/2002 7:09:52 PM
Not bad, Wiz, but what attracts me the most to parrish is the color, esp. the blue. Many's the sunset that reveals a maxfield parrish sky. We went to see his show at the brooklyn museum and it was hard not to walk around the joint with my mouth hanging open. Not just the color but the technique he used adds extreme depth and luminescence that can't be matched. Incredible.
5422. thoughtful - 1/3/2002 7:12:53 PM
beautiful 
5423. theDiva - 1/3/2002 7:14:28 PM
Wiz
You and your wife have a standing invitation to my dinner table...
5424. judithathome - 1/3/2002 7:18:06 PM
Well, duuuhhhh on me...I didn't realise til just now that you could click on that picture of the skull and read all about it. You must think I have an excellent grasp of the obvious, Wiz!
5425. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/3/2002 7:51:35 PM
Sorry Judith--I should have labeled the link.
Deev- Thanks so much, however we like to sit when we eat--if you wouldn't mind?;-}
[Gosh that was a flashback to reading too many Chuck Lawson posts.]
And btw, the invitation is always reciprocal with regards to your Cape Cod sojourns, etc.
thoughtful- Parrish was a master of glazes--a time consuming old world technique that made everything seem radiant and mystical and probably the reason most of his work is so small in scale.
Thayer, on the other hand, was probably more influenced by modern masters of ala prima, (all at once paintng) like Sargent, Manet or the some of the Impressionists.
5426. theDiva - 1/3/2002 7:52:59 PM
ha!
Given our heritage, reclining is much more appropriate...and I thank you as well.
5427. judithathome - 1/3/2002 7:58:40 PM
like Sargent, Manet or the some of the Impressionists.
Looks like he viewed a few Pre-Raphaelites, too.
5428. thoughtful - 1/3/2002 8:02:18 PM
Wiz, have you ever been to Olana?
5429. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/3/2002 8:14:55 PM
Prego!
Yup!
Actually, I'm remembering a lovely picnic on the grounds of Olana with a Hudson River sunset ala Freddy Church!
Have you ever been to Chessterwood?
[I'm off to pick up a repaired Honda--later Lovelies!]
5430. theDiva - 1/3/2002 8:26:20 PM
ciao, baby!
5431. thoughtful - 1/3/2002 8:51:12 PM
Wiz, no, but I've been to Norman Rockwell Museum and the Clark Art Institute. While I enjoy the Wadsworth, my all time favorite museum is the Gardner which I had the pleasure to visit shortly before the many paintings were stolen. What a beautiful place.
5432. thoughtful - 1/3/2002 8:56:39 PM
There is a Parrish at New Britain Museum of American Art. A small one, but beautiful nonetheless.
5433. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/4/2002 12:08:54 AM
thoughtful- You owe it to yourself to visit Chesterwood--it's 10 minutes up the road from Stockbridge. It has a lovely main house with wonderful views and lots to see--especially French's studio which is adjacent to the a lovely garden. It's intoxicating in the spring.
[ I had my first solo museum show at NBMAA.]
5434. thoughtful - 1/4/2002 3:43:31 PM
Wiz, it's on my list...that's a beautiful area to visit.
That's very neat about your show at the NBMAA.
Have you been to Hill-Stead?
5435. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/4/2002 6:51:04 PM
Actually, I haven't been inside the museum in years -- I abhor docent-led tours and I'm not a big Impressionism fan -- but we are at most of the Sunken Garden Poetry events. Music & poetry at dusk in that garden, during the summer, just can't be beat.
5436. thoughtful - 1/5/2002 6:33:16 PM
Yes, docent-led is not the best, but I so enjoy seeing not only the manets, monets, cassat, but I enjoy seeing them in a home-like setting with the rooms decorated specifically around the art. That's also where I fell in love with Antoine Louis Barye...bought a copy from the Met store in ny and lugged the darn thing home on the train and love it still.
5437. justears - 1/5/2002 7:47:19 PM
Wiz & Thoughtful, You two are discussing all of my stomping grounds as well. I been to the Chesterwood...but while we are at it, the Aldrich is a cool museum as is the one at Connecticut college(its name escapes me at the moment.) Isn't it great how many great short trips there are in the CT vicinity. MassMoca is a must see as well. We I was up there last the Museum of Williams College was getting ready to install a new, outdoor Louis Bourgeois out in front. I bet it is/will be stunning.
5438. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/5/2002 7:58:29 PM
Then I'm wondering if either of you two have taken a day trip to the home & studio of the greatest relief sculptor this country has ever produced . . .
5439. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/5/2002 8:00:31 PM
Oops! CLICK HERE.
5440. justears - 1/5/2002 8:07:57 PM
Wiz, I haven't visited the Gaudens memorial although I have seen one of his pieces. I think it was a diana with a bow.
5441. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/5/2002 8:35:55 PM
je- His home & studio are as much of a delight as Chesterwood, with a wonderful view of Mt. Ascutney--a mountain that provides summit access by car, for other spectacular views.
5442. thoughtful - 1/6/2002 2:16:05 PM
Nope, haven't been there, but FIL was born in 1908 and he passed on to me a 1908 $20 gold piece, often considered to be the most beautiful US coin.
5443. thoughtful - 1/6/2002 2:19:59 PM
I've never been to the aldrich and don't plan on going any time soon....contemporary art ain't my thing. No way, no how. I remember seeing one piece that looked like a very large black square called "Bessie". Granted there were a few subtle shades of black in the square, but no apparent sign of talent on the part of the artist. The write up with the painting was where the creativity and talent lay...it went on for paragraphs about Bessie Smith who supposedly inspired the piece.
5444. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/6/2002 4:00:22 PM
Sounds like an Ad Reinhardt . . .
5445. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/6/2002 8:02:23 PM
From ArtNet News:
TOP CURATORS CAUGHT IN ENRON WEB
Two top museum curators have become caught up in the bankruptcy scandal surrounding the Houston energy company Enron, which among its many business enterprises also embarked on a multimillion-dollar art-buying spree. The Enron corporate collection was formed with the assistance of Ned Rifkin, the new director of the Hirshhorn Museum who formerly headed the Menil Collection in Houston, and Barry Walker, a curator at the Houston Museum of Fine Arts. What remuneration the two museum staffers received for their extracurricular activities has not been disclosed. Among the Enron acquisitions, according to a report in the New York Times, was Martin Puryear's Bower (1980), a sculpture of wooden latticework that sold at Sotheby's New York last spring for $764,750 (with premium) -- an auction record for a work by the artist. The Enron art committee was headed by Lea Fastow, wife of former Enron fiscal officer Andrew Fastow, who is at the center of the scandal. The corporate art collection should eventually end up on the auction block along with other Enron assets -- but don't be surprised, say business observers, if choice artworks end up in the hands of top company executives.
5446. judithathome - 1/6/2002 8:11:12 PM
Yes, don't be surprised at all.
Where is Ken Starr when you need him?
5447. judithathome - 1/6/2002 8:11:59 PM
Because as we all know, some of those top executives are now in Bushs administration...
5448. Property of Jesus - 1/6/2002 8:53:18 PM
Who from ENRON works for the Bush administration, Judy? Not that it matters. It is always better to risk saving a guilty man than to condemn an innocent one.
5449. judithathome - 1/6/2002 9:02:32 PM
About four people who are now with the Bush adminisration worked at Enron. This isn't the place to discuss it, however...I made that remark in reference to the post made by Wiz.
5450. marjoribanks - 1/6/2002 9:03:58 PM
I got a CD in the mail yesterday, from a friend who has upped stakes and moved to Mexico. Apparently, she bought the disk and on hearing it couldn't rest until it was sent to me ("the rightful owner")
It's called Vasos Vacios, and is by a bizarre, joyous bunch of Argentines who call themselves Los Fabulosos Cadillacs. Apparently, one song on this album, El Matador is a huge Latin hit and has appeared on a couple of Hollywood soundtracks.
Anyway, this is party music, with three exclamation marks. A riot of blaring trumpets and dub bass lines and Pogues-like bellowed lyrics. I can see why film-makers have used it, the music is atmospheric in the extreme, calling to mind an Argentine dive of the imagination, brimming over with noise and high spirit. If Buenos Aires feels like this music sounds, I regret not having already visited.
5451. judithathome - 1/6/2002 9:07:04 PM
How old is this CD, Banks? I think I saw a video on Spanish TV with that song on it a few years ago...the music was wild!
5453. marjoribanks - 1/6/2002 9:13:02 PM
The disk says Grandes Exitos 85-93 on it, so I assume it was the same song.
It is good stuff, at least for the mood I find myself in these days - hankering for mayhem.
5454. marjoribanks - 1/6/2002 9:13:29 PM
Argh
5456. theDiva - 1/6/2002 9:16:10 PM
ahem.
5458. judithathome - 1/6/2002 9:23:18 PM
Banks, the video was absolutely what you're looking for...started out with a funeral and ended up with weird stuff in an abandonded shack and buckets of reddish stuff being flung on the suffering soul. It came on at the same time every day and I would switch over just to see it...there was a rather arrogant rooster strutting through it, too.
5460. theDiva - 1/6/2002 10:19:30 PM
Posts numbered 5452, 5455, 5457, and 5459 have been moved to the Inferno.
We prefer to maintain a civil tone in this thread.
Thank you.
5461. Cellar Door - 1/6/2002 10:53:16 PM
5462. CalGal - 1/6/2002 11:03:00 PM
YSL is retiring. I thought he was dead already, and instead he's only 65. I must get all those designers mixed up.
5463. judithathome - 1/6/2002 11:21:23 PM
I thought he was dead, too...he sold his logo to Gucci in 1996 due to illness and I thought for sure he was alrady gone.
5464. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/7/2002 4:34:51 AM
Frank Gehry's model for a new Gugg that may never happen . . .
Umberto Boccioni's
Dynamism of a Man's Head
1914 . . .
Umberto Boccioni's
Development of a Bottle in Space
1913
Umberto Boccioni's 1914
"Unique Form of Continuity in Space" . . .
Who said Futurism is dead?
5465. judithathome - 1/7/2002 5:11:49 AM
How much of that building is actually usable? It looks like all hat and no cattle to me...
5466. theDiva - 1/7/2002 2:49:59 PM
How on earth does one review the plan for that building? Astonishing.
Rolling back a bit and talking about Gaudens, I saw that relief when it was at the National Gallery a few years back. It was amazing, how much emotion could be conveyed in bronze...the faces alone. Greg and I were both stunned to see that one of the men looked like the spit and image of his father. Anyway, a gorgeous piece.
5467. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/7/2002 4:07:04 PM
Can you imagine the poor roofing contractor brought in to repair a leak?
Here are but two examples of St. Gaudens' technical genius in capturing the delicacy of the female form . . .
5468. theDiva - 1/7/2002 4:23:55 PM
Wiz
How are those made? Do you know?
5469. glendajean - 1/7/2002 4:33:02 PM
I once found his statue of Grief or the Adams Family Memorial in Washington's Rock Creek Cemetary. It's the one of the figure holding a shroud wrapped over and around itself. One hand clutching the shroud and a bare foot is revealed. There is a little marble bench in front of the statue. Henry Adams commissioned it after the suicide of his wife.
Doris Kearns Goodwin wrote that Eleanor Roosevelt, upon learning of FDR's infidelity, went through a tremendous depression. For several days, she rode a horse out to the cemetary and sat on that bench and stared back at the statue.
That was the point where she changed, becoming more independent and political, and she shed the role of being a social wife and mother.
There is a 1969 recasting of "Grief" in the Smithsonian Museum of American Art (currently closed for renovations).
5470. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/7/2002 4:47:19 PM
A slab of modeling clay is built up on a wood panel, Deev. The clay is then added & subtracted--sculpted with various clay modeling tools. The idea is to create a sculpted surface that mimics the topography of the model in low or bas-relief.
Once this is accomplished, a plaster mold is made of the clay and then the mold is used to create a bronze casting.
This is an example of high relief (as is the Civil War Monument above) . . .
Take out a U.S. quarter and you can check out directly how a piece of relief sculpture catches the light to create the illusion of depth with limited means.
5471. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/7/2002 4:49:15 PM
gj- That's one of my favorite works of public art.
5472. theDiva - 1/7/2002 4:51:13 PM
oh, clay! That makes sense, I couldn't quite imagine how you could get such soft edges. Very interesting, thanks, Wiz.
5473. theDiva - 1/7/2002 4:51:35 PM
Glenda
I have to find that piece. Maybe this spring.
5474. thoughtful - 1/7/2002 4:57:17 PM
the largest bronze casting in the world, if I recall correctly: 
5475. glendajean - 1/7/2002 5:08:00 PM
Diva -- remember that Rock Creek Cemetary is not on Rock Creek in Georgetown -- that one is actually Oakwood or Oak something.
Rock Creek is out by the Old Soldier's Home (go there and see Lincoln's summer White House). It was the society cemetary in the Gilded Age and full of small temples with tons of Tiffany windows.
Wiz -- I agree. I think is it elegant in idea yet simple and plain. Quite dignified.
5476. theDiva - 1/7/2002 5:12:14 PM
Glenda
I've never been there. It's in DC proper?
5477. thoughtful - 1/7/2002 5:14:17 PM
5478. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/7/2002 5:14:48 PM
Most people don't realize that you can fly a small plane in St. Peters, so the scale of Bernini's baldacchino, in a photo, is deceiving.
5479. judithathome - 1/7/2002 5:15:35 PM
My friend is a bronze sculptor and I am so thrilled to be able to see the process from beginning to end on many of the pieces he casts. He doesn't do bas relief but full on sculpture.
What I think would make an interesting collection would be the little maquettes, the miniature figures a sculptor makes prior to the form from which the plaster mold is made. These might be difficult to hold on to, though, because they are made of wax.
And speaking of wax, I heard him say he casts bronzes in the "lost wax" process so I'm not sure if he means wax forms rather than clay are made prior to the mold. Whatever, his pieces are wonderful.
5480. judithathome - 1/7/2002 5:16:10 PM
I mean, prior to the plaster mold...
5481. theDiva - 1/7/2002 5:18:28 PM
Lost wax...does that mean the mold is made from wax, which then melts away when the bronze is poured?
If I don't get to the Vatican before I die, well, I just don't know what.
5482. judithathome - 1/7/2002 5:24:10 PM
My favorite sculptures of grief are in a huge cemetary in Brussels...the graves are almost like low crypts and there are several bronze figures depicted on different ones, prostrate with grief across the crypts...they are mostly in shrouds but on two, the shroud has fallen from the face of the woman, which is partially turned and shows such dispair and mourning in the expression. They are life sized and while walking through the cemetary, you turn a corner and see what you think is a person overcome with grief and fallen to their knees, stretched across the crypt of a loved one. It gives you the most intrusive feeling until you realize it's a sculpture...and a damned fine one, too. Chills up the spine time, believe me.
5483. glendajean - 1/7/2002 5:25:17 PM
Diva -- thoughtful's link has information on the cemetary. Yes, it is up in the middle of the District, up past the hills that ring the downtown. Lincoln and several presidents summered at the Old Solider's Home next door because it wasn't as humid as the area around the White House.
PBS recently showed a delightful National Geographic special on the Vatican. The altar canopy is dusted four times a year.
The best visual sight was the placement of luminaire type lights outlining St. Peter's exterior, including the ribs of the dome.
5484. judithathome - 1/7/2002 5:28:57 PM
Here is a link to a page describing the Lost Wax Process
5485. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/7/2002 5:39:16 PM
Judith- The plaster mold is used to make wax multiples. Later on in the process, the waxes are used to create new sand molds. The high heat of the molten bronze melts the wax and replaces it in the empty cavity with every detail of the original. There are holes in the mold for pouring as well as for the escape of the wax as well as the overflow of gases & molten metal.
The maquettes (or small 3d sketches) are indeed facinating. As a fatter of mact, a visit to Chesterwood offers the opportunity to view many of Charles Chester French's maquettes for the Lincoln Memorial in DC. Lots of people are disappointed to learn that French "merely" sculpted the small-scale clay model and Italian artisans scaled up and carved Lincoln from his relatively tiny original.
Click on the Chesterwood link above & you can actually see some of the maquettes in his studio . . .which also had train tracks in it to transport some of his larger commissions.
5486. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/7/2002 5:40:29 PM
Ooops--you guys are way ahead of me!
5487. theDiva - 1/7/2002 5:40:43 PM
This is great stuff, folks. Thank you.
5488. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/7/2002 5:51:35 PM
Here is a very good PDF on relief Modelling.
5489. thoughtful - 1/7/2002 7:21:35 PM
relief modeling...is that a 10 min. break for Christie Brinkley?
5490. thoughtful - 1/7/2002 7:32:44 PM
there are many amazing things about st. peters. One is clearly the size...they have marks in the floor that show how large other famous cathedrals are...you walk and you walk and you walk and far into the building you come across the one for a cathedral you know, like St. Patricks in NYC. Amazing.
Another is the incredible micromosaics they have made of paintings...one of the reasons why you can photograph things in the cathedral...the paintings are made of stone and will not fade.
5491. Property of Jesus - 1/7/2002 7:42:48 PM
Let's hope the terrorists don't bomb the cathedral.
I've been worried about that for a long time.
5492. glendajean - 1/7/2002 7:52:37 PM
POJ -- I hope not, either.
Technically, St. Peters is not a cathedral but a basilica (according to the dictionary, "a church having special privileges from the Pope." The Shrine of the Immaculate Conception in DC is also a basilica.
5493. thoughtful - 1/7/2002 8:30:51 PM
re maquettes reminded me of visiting the david and the works they have in the museum of micheangelo's abandoned sculptures...to see a work in progress, the contrast of the finished areas with the untouch stone and to see the figures literally emerging from the stone. Most wondeful. Makes his genius all the more apparent.
5494. judithathome - 1/7/2002 9:18:12 PM
Thoughtful, the last time we were at our friends house, we saw the 10 foot sleeping panther in his studio...his next project. It will be a public installation and it was amazing to see the intricate detail in wax of the animal, his fur in sharp detail of every individual hair which was then gone over and "softened" to appear more lifelike.
I wish he had a website so I could show y'all his work....
5495. thoughtful - 1/7/2002 9:22:36 PM
so do I..sounds fabulous
5496. judithathome - 1/7/2002 9:36:03 PM
He has one piece, which just sold last week, of a dragon and you can see every scale on it's body.
5497. theDiva - 1/7/2002 9:45:51 PM
interrupting just to say that I am listening to the sublime Jeannie Bryson (I will send a Butterfinger bar to the first Motie who can tell me who her dad is, WITHOUT LOOKING IT UP)singing 'It's So Nice To Have A Man Around The House'.
Yum. She's wonderful.
Carry on.
5498. judithathome - 1/7/2002 10:04:58 PM
Couldn't be linguist Bill Bryson, I suppose?
5499. theDiva - 1/7/2002 10:17:16 PM
Nah.
5500. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/7/2002 10:21:32 PM
You ladies make me dizzy!
5501. marjoribanks - 1/7/2002 10:24:38 PM
Peabo?
5502. marjoribanks - 1/7/2002 10:28:02 PM
Speaking of fathers, I got an album of Peanuts music by Ellis Marsalis for the holidays. He's the father of Wynton and Branford and others. It's good, but not quite as satisfying as the more straight-ahead reditions by (um) David Benoit that I extolled in this forum last year.
But still good.
5503. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/7/2002 10:29:50 PM
I discovered Bryson on a Terence Blanchard album of Billie Holiday's songs. Come to think of it, I never followed her up -- what's her best album, IYO, Deev?
5504. marjoribanks - 1/7/2002 10:30:12 PM
I also got a CD of Bernstein's music interpreted by a young violinist named Joshua Bell.
To tell the truth, I haven't even listened to this one - too busy replaying the Los Fabulosos Caddilacas compilation again and again.
5505. marjoribanks - 1/7/2002 10:30:48 PM
That's Cadillacas.
5506. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/8/2002 12:10:43 AM
Marj- You've got me curious about Los Cadillacas!
5507. judithathome - 1/8/2002 12:15:04 AM
Go over to Amazon.com and you can have a listen!
5508. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/8/2002 12:17:07 AM
Thanks Judith -- I'm at Tower Records lisitening now. What album did Marj say he liked?
5509. judithathome - 1/8/2002 12:27:49 AM
Hmmmm...it's 2 words and both start with a vee...the song I like best is El Matador.
5510. judithathome - 1/8/2002 12:28:30 AM
Vasos Vacios
5511. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/8/2002 1:26:23 AM
Thanks J@H!
5512. theDiva - 1/8/2002 2:43:37 PM
Banks
No, not Peabo. Delfeayo and Jason are the others. (David Benoit?!?! Gracious.)
Wiz
Can't recommend a Jeannie Bryson album, not having any myself. The latest is the one I've been hearing most on Spinner, and it's dandy.
5513. Property of Jesus - 1/8/2002 3:30:13 PM
Flashback to my younger days.
Because I was feeling disaffected, the wife just got me "The Paul Butterfield Blues Band: the Electra Anthology" 2 CD collection. Now "everything's gonna be alright."
5514. judithathome - 1/8/2002 11:17:15 PM
Okay...here I am.
5515. uzmakk - 1/8/2002 11:35:12 PM
I found the first sculpture amusing-- bicameral mind, therefore brain formed of two compressed and crouching men. The one does have the Gollum eyes found on all those small statuettes Jaynes mentions, the other fellow is the beginning of the self we now know. I can't make out whether the hands are crossed and the modern self has "his" hand over the mouth of the other fellow, or whether each has his own hand in the proximity of his own face. The other hand is in a fist and under the jaw of the modern looking fellow.
Very interesting, but I really like the second one which I understand far less well and which is far more mysterious to me.( I have to start dinner will be back this evening)
5516. uzmakk - 1/8/2002 11:43:41 PM
But before I go, it occurs to me that the more modern face has very squinty eyes. I wonder if this is significant. I have seen people with little slit eyes like that, but do those squinty eyes indicate something more?
5517. judithathome - 1/8/2002 11:44:17 PM
They are all one piece.
5518. judithathome - 1/8/2002 11:50:22 PM
Uz, I can ask my friend to drop you a line or give you his e-mail address if you like.
5519. uzmakk - 1/8/2002 11:54:40 PM
I see one piece with a chicken head and one piece without. Are there detachable parts?
5520. judithathome - 1/8/2002 11:55:33 PM
One view is the underside without the stand...
5521. judithathome - 1/8/2002 11:56:48 PM
He did this when he was very young...do you want his address? I have two addresses for you; I was thinking of sending it not to the hotmail one?
5522. judithathome - 1/8/2002 11:58:05 PM
God, that sounded odd...to the one other than hotmail.
5523. uzmakk - 1/9/2002 12:07:45 AM
I see it! I'll be danged. So cool.
So is there the head of a fowl in there or not? That would be on the underside if it is there. It could be an optical illusion. Whatever it is there are two little bits of it lying on the tounge. Very strange, Judith, and very wonderful.
5524. uzmakk - 1/9/2002 12:09:36 AM
And now I can see that the hands do cross.
5525. uzmakk - 1/9/2002 12:15:09 AM
My e-mail-- jkuzmak@epix.net
5526. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/9/2002 12:19:00 AM
????
5527. judithathome - 1/9/2002 12:21:44 AM
Just sent it off...you might ask him to send you a jpeg of his dragon. ;-)
5528. judithathome - 1/9/2002 12:23:22 AM
Uz:
You should hold that piece in your hands...the weight of it is amazing. Plus you get this really strange feeling that it is a brain.
5529. judithathome - 1/11/2002 6:23:17 PM
I guess three days between posts doesn't make me look like a thread hog...
Last night we attended the musical revue Putting It Together by Stephen Sondheim and I went reluctantly because when I hear his name, all I can think of is one song, Into The Woods which is just far to manic and crazed for my tastes and sets my teeth on edge. But sitting there last night, I became mesmerized by his command of the language and the way he tells a story...admittedly, a rather bitter and sad one at times...through the narrative of song.
I wasn't familiar with the music except for one song but I enjoyed the performance enough to want the CD. Not bad for two hours worth of giving something I was sure I didn't like a chance.
5530. glendajean - 1/21/2002 5:29:41 PM
Judy, Sondheim is a trip. That is, one always travels with his music, usually to a place of pain and unrequited love or missed opportunities or general loneliness.
He is a great songwriter. I am glad you've given him a second chance.
Peggy Lee. RIP or Yes, that is all there is.
5531. CalGal - 1/21/2002 5:34:20 PM
I like Sondheim's music a great deal. I"d always rather have the CDs of his Broadway plays than watch them. The songs say it all.
Yes, goodbye Peggy Lee.
5532. theDiva - 1/21/2002 5:37:57 PM
Sad news about Miss Lee.
Wish my illustrious cohost were around, he's quite the Sondheim scholar/fan. He (Riv, not Sondheim) is with his students at the American College Theatre Festival this week.
5533. judithathome - 1/21/2002 5:58:54 PM
Last night we went to a fancy restaurant to "meet the Company" because we are season ticket holders for Bruce Wood Dance Company. It was great...the 12 dancers and Bruce Wood were there and they were all so friendly and gracious to those of us who've enjoyed their performances enough to want to see their four performances a year.
It's amazing how much dancers eat!
5534. theDiva - 1/21/2002 6:02:12 PM
It's got to do with their fitness/metabolism levels...when I was in the best shape of my life, weight training, dancing, and doing cardio work 4-5 times a week, I promise you I ate more than I do now. Astonishing.
5535. Property of Jesus - 1/21/2002 6:53:04 PM
I'm showing my female side with the two CDs purchases over the weekend.
Gillian Welch--"Time (The Revelator)"
Natalie Merchant--"MotherLand"
5536. arkymalarky - 1/23/2002 2:01:13 AM
Hey PJ, my weird music soulmate, are you a fan of Parliament?
What made me look them up, I don't know. I guess it's because I've heard George Clinton's name mentioned a couple of times recently.
5537. Property of Jesus - 1/23/2002 3:24:07 PM
No, Arky. Wasn't on my musical radar. I didn't like Elton John once he went glitter w/ his big sunglasses, and, other than the terrific bass lines, I couldn't stand "funk" or hip hop.
I think most black music has gone downhill since crack was introduced in the inner city.
At the time Parliament and George Clinton were popular in the late 1970s and early 1980s, I was listening to Elvis Costello, Talking Heads, Al Greene, Fleetwood Mac (especially early stuff) and, strangely for the second time, Frank Sinatra.
5538. theDiva - 1/23/2002 4:21:20 PM
Arky
make my funk the P-Funk. George Clinton is DA BOMB.
5539. Frankster - 1/23/2002 5:28:29 PM
POJ,
I can't believe how often you and I agree on the musicians we enjoy.
" I think most black music has gone downhill since crack was introduced in the inner city."
Huh ? Pop music today -- hip-hop and R&B included -- suffer from not only the screeners of the Clear Channels of the corporate world, which own the airwaves, and thus hire and control the deejays which play the music we supposedly want to hear, as well as from short sighted record producers and record companies which care only about the quick buck by promoting these studio engineered short shelf life bands for mass consumption. It's about touring, merchandizing, and fancy dance moves, et all, and little about the quality of the product produce. Anyone out there singing the tunes of musicians from last year ?
... The future has never looked brighter for marketing majors in that industry.
I'll take Gladys Knight, David Byrne, Russell Thompkins Jr., or Al Green over the likes of Whitney Houston, Janet Jackson, Brittany Spears or Mariah Carey any day -- ANY DAY!
( I would also fly anywhere in the states at a moment's notice to see Spandau Ballet play. Yes I would!)
I dunno. Maybe as they say in sports, one can't compare eras, but I really do think the music that kids listen today sucks.
5540. Frankster - 1/23/2002 5:30:36 PM
suffer= suffers
Deev,
I saw George a few years ago at the Street Scene here locally. He had the biggest crowd of this three night affair.
5541. theDiva - 1/23/2002 5:34:48 PM
FRANKIE!!!!!!
where ya been, babe?
5542. Frankster - 1/23/2002 5:44:36 PM
Deev!
I can ask the same of you. My work schedule has changed drastically of late, as I've been working early mornings and graveyard shifts for the last three weeks. My circadium(sp?) rhythm is really being thrown for a loop.
5543. Property of Jesus - 1/23/2002 5:48:58 PM
Frank--I knew we were on the same wavelength when we both said a prayer after the death of Pops Staple of the Staple Singers last year.
Now they could sing...
I hate most rap, or hip hop. (what's the difference?) And it makes me sad that blacks like it so. And because blacks like it, teenage white kids listen to it. I blame the music on the drug crack.
5544. theDiva - 1/23/2002 5:59:56 PM
Suburban white kids buy fully 80% of all rap and hiphop records sold.
5545. judithathome - 1/23/2002 6:03:02 PM
And from ragtime to rock and roll, people in music smoked pot and drank booze and it didn't kill any creativity...you can't blame drugs on making music better OR worse.
5546. Frankster - 1/23/2002 6:05:40 PM
I'd say hip-hop is J-Lo or Aaliyah ( Aaliyah might also blur into today's version of R & B ). Where rap today is obviously someone like Snoop Dog, and other knockoffs like him.
Rap is more the result of the rantings and grievances of inner city plight that many black youths have grown up in. It's the doo-wop of the 80s and 90s ... I doubt it has little to do with crack, or any drug for that matter.
5547. betty - 1/24/2002 2:59:37 AM
Diva,
if I remember correctly you are in "go-go" country, no?
a friend who used to live in that area introduced me to go-go a couple of years ago and it still lightens up my stride on a funky day.
5548. arkymalarky - 1/24/2002 3:16:18 AM
Diva,
I completely agree. I bought one of their albums when I was in high school, and I still listen to it. There's a lot of good music and wit in it.
PJ,
I feel the same way as you about Elton John. I may have asked this before, but do you have Tumbleweed Connection? It's a great album. Yellow Brick Road is a mixed bag, imo, and I didn't own or listen to anything after that.
I always feel I have to duck eggs and tomatoes when I say it, but I like some rap and hip-hop, and some of the new stuff lacks the hard edge but is fun. I don't run out and by their CDs, but I like Busta Rhymes, Bubba Sparxxx, Missy Elliot, and a few others, and some pop music is getting interesting again the last year or so.
5549. arkymalarky - 1/24/2002 3:19:08 AM
I can't stand the whiny crooning crap like Britney Spears and Backstreet Boys and Celine Dion, and that dominated pop music for so long, it's nice to hear some new styles or revamping of old ones. Mose hardly listens to pop music at all any more, she got so burned out on that style in junior high school.
5550. theDiva - 1/24/2002 1:56:52 PM
Betty
it don't mean a thing if it ain't got the go-go swing....(yes, I'm in go-go country....)
Arky
George Clinton is a hoot. That site you linked to just cracked me up. And yes, there's a lot of wit in addition to good ole stank nasty butt-shakin FUNK.
5551. betty - 1/24/2002 2:57:30 PM
Diva,
go-go is so interesting to me, i'm really puzzled by how it's managed to keep itself local. It would seem to me that with the popularization of funk and afro-pop that it could have gotten out of it's "ghetto", so to speak, but yet it seems stuck there. This is probably very good for it since music was so much more interesting when there where different regional flavors but still it puzzles me.
5552. judithathome - 1/24/2002 3:00:44 PM
I'm assuming y'all aren't talking about the go-go of the 60s, with the boots and fringed minis and girls in cages?
5553. betty - 1/24/2002 3:03:57 PM
no, slightly different go-go, but i'd be willing to get some go-go boots out and dance in one of those cages if i got to hear some live butt thumping, hip shaking, doing the nasty go-go
5554. theDiva - 1/24/2002 3:08:05 PM
Betty
I think it's due to two factors - first, the record companies can't package it for the mass market....how do you cut down a go-go groove down to 'single' size; and second, most of the practicioners are honest-to-God musicians who are older, got bellies and gray hair, and would resist those 'packaging' makeovers the record companies love so dearly.
Thank God. This way it ain't watered down.
Judith
I'll see if I can find a link to a good explanation of go-go. Basically it started in DC as party music...the band would play percussive dance grooves in between songs just to keep the crowd going, and well, one thing led to another....
5555. theDiva - 1/24/2002 3:10:47 PM
Here's some info, including a tip of the hat to the Godfather of Go Go, Chuck Brown. Incidentally, if you are familiar with the song 'Da Butt', you have heard go go.
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got the go go swing...
5556. judithathome - 1/24/2002 3:14:40 PM
i if you are familiar with the song 'Da Butt', you have heard go go.
Diva....you know that I've not heard that song.;-)
5557. judithathome - 1/24/2002 3:15:46 PM
Sorry, forgot where I was, that remark flustered me so! No tags, no 'talics!
5558. theDiva - 1/24/2002 3:25:53 PM
hm. I'll see if I can find a link to a sound sample.
5559. JJBiener - 1/25/2002 7:15:43 AM
Greeting and salutations Gentle Moties. I just dropped in to let you know that I now have a page on MP3.com. You can reach it here.
The first song called The Bridge is now available. My next piece is called The Boardwalk and it should be ready in the not too distant future.
Please check out the link and let me know what you think.
Thanks.
5560. wonkers2 - 1/25/2002 2:04:53 PM
I like it! Very nice.
5561. JJBiener - 1/25/2002 5:40:30 PM
Thanks, Wonk. Tell your friends and neighbors. If I can get a good hit rate for the song, it will appear on the mp3.com charts. If it is on the charts, I will get even more hits. However, I have to do the initial PR to give it a kick start.
I will post here when my next piece is available.
5562. jexster - 1/25/2002 5:44:37 PM
Welcome back JJB!!!!
5563. Absensia - 1/25/2002 7:01:15 PM
JJ,
That is wonderful...it's soo smoooth....lovely.
The sound is great...very clear, and my sound system sucks!
5564. theDiva - 1/27/2002 3:09:51 PM
Thank you, JJ, for posting that link. The piece is rather pleasant. Good luck to you.
5565. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 3:12:20 PM
I got the role of a priest in a local production of Jesus Christ Superstar. Does anyone want to help me design the costumes?
5566. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 3:13:10 PM
i.e., May I confer with you people?
5567. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 3:17:04 PM
Was it Harper, the former Motie, who did this kind of work?
5568. theDiva - 1/27/2002 3:18:20 PM
Yes, I believe Harper was interested in period costumery(is that a word).
5569. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 3:20:11 PM
We don't have to worry about period costumery. This is a concept thing.
5570. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 3:21:16 PM
I watched the movie for the first time and do not like certain aspects of the priestly garb.
5571. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 3:23:04 PM
...though others are taken with it. I like the bubble heads but not the bare chests.
5572. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 3:26:09 PM
I would like to put a bit more sparkle in their raiments.
5573. theDiva - 1/27/2002 3:29:51 PM
Body glitter.
5574. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 3:33:28 PM
It so happens, Diva, that I have just aquired a role of red and a role of blue glitter foil. I already have gold and silver. Body glitter? hum. I want the preists to be well covered, but it might be cool to have body glitter on their hands and arms.
5575. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 3:34:14 PM
btw, very clever, Diva.
5576. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 3:35:09 PM
put more sparkle in their raiments -- body glitter -- ha ha.
5577. mgleason - 1/27/2002 3:38:48 PM
I liked The Bridge, JJ. Now you need some subversive lyrics to go shake up the smoothness of the sound.
5578. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 3:41:47 PM
Yah, subversive lyrics!
5579. theDiva - 1/27/2002 3:45:28 PM
Uz
I live to serve the Lord of the Steppe.
5580. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 3:46:34 PM
Saw, Gypsophilia, the dervish band, on Friday last. Very glad I went. Anyone in the Philly area ever hear of them?
5581. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 3:48:57 PM
That's the spirit, Diva!
5582. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 3:51:44 PM
Well folks, gotta get back to work. I expect to hear more thought on the design of JC priest garments when I return. If not, the Steppelord will be angry.
5583. theDiva - 1/27/2002 4:08:12 PM
oops....
5584. judithathome - 1/27/2002 4:24:29 PM
Rainbow suspenders....
5585. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 4:32:23 PM
Get serious, Judith.
I think this much has already been decided, huge black bell bottoms, the bell starting at the crotch, and huge open sleeves very similar to the legs.
5586. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 4:35:04 PM
What does one call them? Koolaats (sp)?
5587. theDiva - 1/27/2002 4:37:18 PM
culottes.
5588. mgleason - 1/27/2002 4:38:48 PM
Pretty cool Jesus Christ Superstar costume designs.
5589. Frankster - 1/27/2002 4:42:05 PM
Body glitter just doesn't do it for me. Who came up with that one ?
... That stuff must be murder to lick, um, er,..take off.
5590. theDiva - 1/27/2002 4:42:39 PM
So what you're saying is you'd not lick body glitter off Uzmak?
5591. Frankster - 1/27/2002 4:43:57 PM
LOL!
Right.
5592. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 5:05:08 PM
thank you, mgleason. Most excellent.
i.e., Thank you, Most Excellent Mgleason.
5593. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 5:06:32 PM
The rest of you -- heads will roll.
5594. theDiva - 1/27/2002 5:07:31 PM
Oh please, grand and terrible SteppeLord, do not behead me! I will buy you a whole vat of body glitter if only you will spare my miserable worthless life.
5595. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 5:47:04 PM
I will accept your offering of 1 vat of body glitter. Please have it delivered to my home address.
5596. Property of Jesus - 1/27/2002 5:48:06 PM
Yes, Arky, I owned the Elton John Tumbleweed Connection brown album and loved the songs/lyrics. Its the only Elton John album that I have on CD--although I have not listened to it in years.
It's the album that make them stars.
I saw John twice. At a small concert sponsored by FM radio station in NYC in 1971 and aired live and at the Capitol Center in the late 1970s at a big concert (18,000 paid audience) where he was jumping on top of the piano dancing and running around the stage like a goon. Not good. He was never a Mick Jagger type.
CD purchase of the weekend: "Robert Johnson: The Complete Recordings." Satan made me do it. I think in an earlier life I was black. Blacker than the night.
5597. theDiva - 1/27/2002 5:49:17 PM
Oh, thank you, gracious and merciful SteppeLord, for sparing my pathetic, worthless life.
(What color do you want?)
5598. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 5:58:41 PM
Color is up to you, but I would like it flavored in Frankster's favorite flavor.
5599. theDiva - 1/27/2002 6:01:31 PM
I think silver and blue will be nice.
(I am going to have one HELL of a time finding jambalaya-flavored body glitter.)
5600. judithathome - 1/27/2002 6:01:34 PM
Uz, did you get the latest mailing?
5601. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 6:04:52 PM
I make a good jambalaya. I will add the flavor here.
Judith:
I have not. I will take a walk down to the post office right now though. Supposed to be up to near 60 today. Anyone who is able to take a long walk in the northeast today, and does not, is a fool.
5602. PelleNilsson - 1/27/2002 7:03:34 PM
uzmakk
What kind of priest? The Christian variety was not invented then. Jewish? Mithrean? You've got to think of appropriate occult symbols.
5603. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 7:27:07 PM
5602 THIS is the kind of help I need. Thank - - - for Pelle Nilsson.
5604. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 7:27:54 PM
Nothing in the mail, Judith.
5605. theDiva - 1/27/2002 7:30:41 PM
I smell a project on the order of the Haysweep Treatise.
5606. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 7:42:50 PM
It should be an interesting production. Mary Magdalene is visibly pregnant.
5607. judithathome - 1/27/2002 7:47:51 PM
I sent it out on Wednesday last week. Hmmmm....
5608. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 7:51:21 PM
Nothing unusual yet, Judith. Bet it will be here tomorrow.
5609. betty - 1/27/2002 7:54:19 PM
Uz,
I'm a recent refugee from Philly but I have not heard of that band...I will send the inquiry on to my friends still there.
and Yeah, what kind of priest? I'm a flaming occultist and would be glad to share wacky symbols with you.
5610. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 8:13:08 PM
Name and describe a few, betty. btw, greetings.
5611. betty - 1/27/2002 8:18:21 PM
Uz,
I have bookS on the subject and wouldn't know where to begin unless you gave me a little background info. Is this a Solar Priest, a lunar priest, what? I know nothing about Jesus Christ Superstar, maybe I will rent it from the Library this week and that could give me a better idea.
5612. Property of Jesus - 1/27/2002 8:23:51 PM
Be careful about giving personal information here, Betty. The rules of privacy here are stated clearly, but not inacted.
5613. betty - 1/27/2002 8:27:10 PM
PoJ,
uh, I'm not sure that I gave any personal information unless you're talking about me being an occultist and if I didn't feel comfortable talking about it I wouldn't have mentioned it.
betty
5614. judithathome - 1/27/2002 8:31:53 PM
Betty, just keep a fly swatter handy...
5615. betty - 1/27/2002 8:37:32 PM
judith,
thanks for the warning...do you have one i could borrow?
5616. theDiva - 1/27/2002 8:40:00 PM
well, from now on I'm gonna let Riv do the heavy lifting around here, is all I can say. He's the man of the house.
5617. betty - 1/27/2002 8:50:11 PM
Ok, well I put this on the Cafe thread but it does pertain to this topic...I'm getting a weaving loom!!! at long last my 6 month old dream comes true...WooHoo!
I am on my way...WooHoo, WooHoo, It's your birthday, go betty.
(If you couldn't tell I'm very excited about this.)
5618. theDiva - 1/27/2002 8:57:24 PM
That's great, betty! What are you going to do with it?
btw, Judith, I found a link to Da Butt on CDNow, however it wouldn't play for me. I'll try again.
5619. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 8:59:06 PM
betty:
As far as I know they are not solar or lunar priests; they are yahweh priests...priests of the jabbering god.
5620. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 9:00:41 PM
Loom? What are you going to make? Your first project.
5621. betty - 1/27/2002 9:08:55 PM
Uz,
Oh good!!! I will sketch out some symbols for you tonight or tom. morning and find a website to plop 'em onto.
Well, I'm gonna weave on my weaving loom. I had thought about just using it as an end table but then I thought "gosh, I could make stuff"! No really, I'm just learning so I am mostly going to be making test blocks and experimenting with different yarns seeing what I can do with the beast. I'm hoping to pursue a BFA a couple years down the line in Fiber Arts so i need to build a really awesome Portfolio (I've flunked out of school twice now so i really need to WOW 'em).
5622. theDiva - 1/27/2002 9:11:20 PM
Judith, check out track 2 on disc 1 for a go-go classic
Betty
hyuk hyuk
Seriously, fiber arts sound very appealing. When I was a kid my mom did some weaving, even taught a class, I think, and she loved it. We even had a spinning wheel.
5623. Ms. No - 1/27/2002 9:22:21 PM
Uz,
What is the concept of the rest of the costume and set design?
You could always go with some kind of modified carrion animal (vultures, hyenas) or even something as vile as maggots. Of course, these only work within one view of the priests.
One might dress them in pink w/plumed hats useful for hiding their vain heads in the sand.....although flamingoes perhaps lack the requisite ferocity.
Need a little more information here. Who's doing the rest of the costume design? What's the make-up like or is there anything going on with it besides straight make-up?
5624. theDiva - 1/27/2002 9:23:06 PM
(smacks her forehead)
forgive me, sis.
5625. Ms. No - 1/27/2002 9:25:40 PM
Why come? Whadja do?
5626. theDiva - 1/27/2002 9:29:16 PM
Cause I forgot that you do this sort of thing! Geesh, I'm getting daffy in my middle years.
5627. betty - 1/27/2002 9:35:20 PM
Diva,
OMIGAWDS! your mom is SO COOL!
really, I just LOVE it. I totally get peace from it. drawing and painting never resonated with me the way this does. It's so much more tactile.
5628. theDiva - 1/27/2002 9:41:01 PM
Betty
Thanks. Mom is the coolest. Don't get me started or I'll brag on her all day long.
Fiber arts strike me to be art as well as craft, which requires a whole other set of skills and method of thought. I suppose the same could be said of other three-dimensional arts.
5629. judithathome - 1/27/2002 9:44:05 PM
Diva, I like that type music...stuff you can dance to!
5630. theDiva - 1/27/2002 9:45:40 PM
I figured you would! You can see a performance of that song on Spike Lee's 'School Daze'.
The highlight of our church New Year's Eve party, year before last, was most of the gospel choir Doin Da Butt after midnight.....
5631. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 10:28:26 PM
Ms. No !! Jaded modern!
Combo movie and stage production. Herod is going to be in black tie and tails, puttin' on the ritz style. I think they are going to throw in some kind of transformation of the masses via costume (I think they are going to start Biblical and end modern). Don't know much more. I should; I am a priest after all.
5632. Ms. No - 1/27/2002 10:48:30 PM
You guys should wear really imposing, self-important black robes....with the asses cut out.
5633. Ms. No - 1/27/2002 10:51:48 PM
Guess it's pretty ovbious how much I love the priests in JCS. They get a really cool song, though!
This is one of my favorite musicals. I first saw the movie when I was about 5 and developed a major crush on Ted Neely. I think that should've been a clue to all involved in my religious up-bringing after that. Good Catholic girls are supposed to aspire to the demeanor of the Blessed Mother....not the Magdalene.
oops!
5634. Ms. No - 1/27/2002 10:53:44 PM
Deev,
No worries. For awhile there I forgot that I do this stuff. I'm having something of a renaissance of late. We'll see how long it lasts and where I go with it.
5635. uzmakk - 1/27/2002 11:08:16 PM
Ms. No:
You saw the movie, therefore you know that we could go bare chested. As I have said, I do not approve, but Caiaphas is all for it. As for going bare butted-- you are a jaded modern.
5636. arkymalarky - 1/28/2002 2:27:55 AM
We ought to organize a Mote roadtrip to go see Uz perform.
5637. arkymalarky - 1/28/2002 2:32:18 AM
PJ,
He's got a new video out, and I can't even get through it. How do you go from "Come Down in Time" to "Island Girl"? I don't get it.
5638. arkymalarky - 1/28/2002 2:33:13 AM
PS--you ought to dig that album out and listen to it on a quiet evening if you haven't in a while. It's still very mood-altering.
5639. Property of Jesus - 1/28/2002 6:19:55 AM
Never a quiet evening here, Arky. But I'll look for it anyway.
And my wife is listening non-stop to Canadian songwriter Bruce Cockburn's new CD, a sorta greatest hits collection from Rounder Records titled "Anything Anytime Anywhere."
5640. arkymalarky - 1/28/2002 1:41:43 PM
A man of your wealth and status should have a sound-resistant room of his own with his own stereo and tv in it. I'm a lowly Arkansas teacher and even I have that. ;-)
5641. uzmakk - 1/28/2002 3:38:12 PM
I have it, Nilsson. I shall be a Pythegorean with a great gold triangle chained to my chest.
5642. uzmakk - 1/28/2002 3:42:11 PM
Forgot to mention that the theater is a church with a huge stage.
5643. uzmakk - 1/28/2002 3:56:32 PM
Love them Canadian songwriters, POJ.
5644. betty - 1/28/2002 4:02:16 PM
can't you paint the gold triangle on with body glitter?
5645. uzmakk - 1/28/2002 4:41:12 PM
Far less impressive, betty.
5646. PelleNilsson - 1/28/2002 6:06:05 PM
uzmakk
What about putting an eye in that triangle? The Free Mason touch?
5647. uzmakk - 1/28/2002 6:08:05 PM
Now we are making progress.
5648. theDiva - 1/28/2002 6:08:41 PM
I HAVE IT!!!!
Black robes, butt cut out, with GOLD TRIANGLES and EYEBALLS in BODY GLITTER on each cheek.
5649. uzmakk - 1/28/2002 6:12:15 PM
We can call that a go. Now what about the four other priests?
5650. uzmakk - 1/28/2002 6:15:53 PM
Get serious, Diva. What kind of priest would that be?
5651. theDiva - 1/28/2002 6:16:47 PM
(bows humbly in gratitude at having been looked on with benificence by the SteppeLord.)
That depends. Do we want them competing with your magnificence?
5652. PelleNilsson - 1/28/2002 6:35:37 PM
What is this gang of priests supposed to do? Just stand there looking menacing? Moving back and fro? Dancing? Didn't you mention Caiaphas (sp?)? Should he be distingusihed in some way without, of course, outdoing your magnificence (thank you, Diva)? Shall we think about head gear (a speciality of mine)?
5653. judithathome - 1/28/2002 6:48:28 PM
I think you ought to go the Druid look, with crowns of leaves and berries...long robes with strings of woven leaves and flowers...
5654. uzmakk - 1/28/2002 7:06:18 PM
No druids allowed.
5655. PelleNilsson - 1/28/2002 7:08:50 PM
Or, something Uzbekian for uzmakkian?
5656. thoughtful - 1/28/2002 7:15:27 PM
to friends of new haven museums...the new show at the british museum of art is painted ladies...sounds like a good one.
5657. uzmakk - 1/28/2002 7:16:28 PM
Headgear is very important. I envision at least several massive papermache headdresses.
I am the # two man in that I have a name, Annas. The others are just 1, 2, and 3. The Steppelord can take your jabs all day long. The priests are going to be a damn impressive part of this play. I am going to see to it.
On to the next problem -- how do we work the headfunnel into the priestly garb.
5658. uzmakk - 1/28/2002 7:18:44 PM
It just so happens, Mr. Nilsson, that I was considering making one of the priests a Magi, perhaps travelling through Jerusalem. Ofcourse, he is unenlightened.
5659. uzmakk - 1/28/2002 7:25:52 PM
btw, Diva, the peek-a-boo bottom is not a go. It is the Mason thing that is a go.(Just incase you misunderstood)
5660. theDiva - 1/28/2002 7:30:16 PM
damn.
5661. uzmakk - 1/28/2002 7:34:26 PM
Don't let it bother you. As one of my most faithful subjects you are afforded many chances at redemption.
5662. theDiva - 1/28/2002 7:39:24 PM
(collapses into a heap, weeping tears of relief.)
5663. uzmakk - 1/28/2002 7:40:23 PM
Pelle:
The priests conspire against Christ (in song, ofcourse). Little more than a good bit of gesticulation.
5664. PelleNilsson - 1/28/2002 7:41:01 PM
Funnel head gear may be appropriate for thetertiary priests but not for Annas. Maybe a richly decorated hood that can be swept away a suitably dramtic momement and reveal the grim visage of
5665. uzmakk - 1/28/2002 7:44:00 PM
You have me all wrong, Nilsson. I am not going to ham this up.
5666. uzmakk - 1/28/2002 7:55:27 PM
You're a good picture popper, Pelle.
5667. PelleNilsson - 1/28/2002 8:00:39 PM
Thanks. Now I have leave you in order to watch Sweden-Russia in team handball.
5668. PelleNilsson - 1/28/2002 10:13:04 PM
Completely off-topic news: Sweden-Russia 30-26. This in the second stage round robin in the European Championships.
5669. arkymalarky - 1/28/2002 11:17:00 PM
Hey Uz, why don't you do the Sammy Davis Jr. thing from Sweet Charity?
5670. uzmakk - 1/29/2002 4:15:00 AM
And what is that, Arky? My sense is that I do not have that much freedom.
5671. JJBiener - 1/29/2002 6:01:14 AM
Uzmakk - Can you do me a favor? Can you send the link to my mp3 page to our mutual friend. Neither of the two email addresses I have for him are working.
Thanks.
5672. uzmakk - 1/29/2002 6:12:26 PM
Our mutual friend has been a bad bad lad. I cannot and will not send your link along to him.
(How's that for a cryptic message?)
5673. arkymalarky - 1/30/2002 12:07:38 AM
He was a hippy preacher with psychedelic clothes, lots of beads, and an eye painted inside his hand.
5674. uzmakk - 1/31/2002 3:43:09 PM
Mr. Nilsson:
Can you please state your conception of a Mithrean Priest and state the design of a simple medallion of representation?
5675. uzmakk - 1/31/2002 4:04:45 PM
Ms. No:
I have my first rehearsal this coming Sunday. I will have a great deal of information for you that evening.
5676. uzmakk - 1/31/2002 7:52:23 PM
Got my cards and lecture invitation. Thank you very much. Will respond by e-mail.
5677. uzmakk - 2/3/2002 1:04:58 AM
Mrs. No:
Caiaphas wants his granny to do his and my head dresses. The rest of the priests are to fend for themselves. They are happy with anything.
Art is so difficult.
5678. PelleNilsson - 2/4/2002 9:36:53 PM
uzmakk
I didn't see your post until now. My intuitive feeling is that a Mithrean symbol would have to include a rock and a bull, perhaps a white one, and lots of blood (can be omitted).
5679. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/5/2002 6:24:20 PM
5680. PelleNilsson - 2/5/2002 7:39:28 PM
Europe and the Bull by Swedish sculptor Carl Milles.
5681. betty - 2/5/2002 9:32:31 PM
in reference to some posts made on sex.
Judith here are a few links about fluxus and Ono. she is someone I truely, deeply admire.
a Fluxus primer
a Fan's Ono site
a quick snyopsis of her work
good site with good Ono links
5682. judithathome - 2/5/2002 9:47:02 PM
Thanks, Betty...I recognized the name of Joseph Beuys in the Fluxus reader. I think the sites are very intersting and Yoko herself is very individualistic but I am more in tune with classical art...it's not that I don't understand modern art, just that I like the other more. Stodgy, for sure, but not so stodgy that I fail to try and understand the modern stuff.
5683. betty - 2/5/2002 9:55:57 PM
Judith,
I am in love with the Fluxus movement (at the moment). I had the pleasure of visiting LaMonte Young's dream house last fall and it was wonderful. alfred waited with Sofi out in the street while I played in the sonic boom and then I watched sofi while he played. I got much more out of it than he did...he tends to be a little more "stodgy". I also briefly studied video with Tony Conrad at UB so I have met the majority of Dream Syndicate.
Oh gawd, I am a snob.
5684. judithathome - 2/5/2002 10:05:29 PM
I can't get that link to work...maybe it will later. Hope so because I really want to look at it!
Not a snob; an enthusiast!
5685. betty - 2/5/2002 10:14:32 PM
if you can't get the link to work (it's working fine for me) the url is-- http://lamonteyoung.com
5686. betty - 2/6/2002 2:56:24 AM
my sad little attempt at conceptual art
Objects To Stack
on a very smooth and completely level table,
place two four inch perfect spheres.
stack the spheres.
5687. judithathome - 2/6/2002 1:33:24 PM
Very nice...I can see it already.
5688. judithathome - 2/6/2002 1:39:02 PM
The link worked for me today, by the way.
5689. joezan - 2/7/2002 3:59:43 PM
I'm having trouble believing the answer to a trivia question I just heard on the radio. Am I clueless? - here it is:
What group or artist had 29 hits place in the Top 100, but never had a #1 hit?
5690. theDiva - 2/7/2002 4:24:09 PM
Rolling Drones.
5691. joezan - 2/7/2002 4:30:14 PM
Diva:
Actually, if you're spoofing Mick and the boys, that ain't it - they've had quite a few #1s.
You won't believe the answer. Hint:
It's an individual artist - male.
5692. theDiva - 2/7/2002 4:44:23 PM
phooey. It was worth a shot.
Haven't a clue.
5693. joezan - 2/7/2002 4:48:12 PM
Initials:
(You're gonna go, Oh - yea...it's ______________ ! But then, you're gonna think, "NO WAY! He had some #1s!")
....
J.B.
5694. judithathome - 2/7/2002 4:50:30 PM
Bach!
JUST KIDDING.....
5695. theDiva - 2/7/2002 4:54:20 PM
Not James Brown.
5696. judithathome - 2/7/2002 4:56:14 PM
Which Top 100 are we speaking of? That makes a difference in who has almost a third of the entries without a #1 hit.
5697. theDiva - 2/7/2002 5:00:46 PM
We can safely rule out James being on the Country charts.
5698. joezan - 2/7/2002 5:03:31 PM
Not Top 100 of all time.
Whatstheirname puts out a weekly Top 100 songs - it's on all the Top-40 stations, and songs move up or down from week-to-week depending on sales and/or requests. And yesindeedydo - James Brown had 29 songs on that list at one time or another, but never a #1 (according to the DJ I heard).
5699. theDiva - 2/7/2002 5:05:25 PM
Billboard.
Now that is amazing, Joe.
5700. joezan - 2/7/2002 5:08:47 PM
That's the one.
I mean, Papa's Got A Brand New Bag???!!!!
...I Feel Good?????!!!!!!!
5701. theDiva - 2/7/2002 5:11:19 PM
Sex Machine
A Man's World
Astonishing.
5702. betty - 2/7/2002 7:28:47 PM
Popcorn!
I knew that, wish you all had kept it a secret so I could have felt like a quiz genius.
5703. joezan - 2/9/2002 3:58:38 PM
Strolling around the sculpture gardens yesterday at the Frederik Meijer Botanical Gardens in Grand Rapids:
5704. joezan - 2/9/2002 3:59:52 PM
...
5705. joezan - 2/9/2002 4:09:57 PM
Il Cavallo:
The molds for this were made from Nina Akamu's original 8ft model, which she made from Leonardo's original drawings and cast a couple of years ago. A 24ft-high Il Cavallo was to have been erected in Milan, but the original mold was destroyed in 1499.
Two of these 24ft statues were made - the other resides in Milan (finally):
5706. rasheed - 2/10/2002 6:56:12 PM
new website: johncoltrane.com
5707. betty - 2/10/2002 7:23:50 PM
rasheed,
thanks for that link, if my Sofi had been a boy she would have been "Coltrane".
5708. theDiva - 2/10/2002 7:30:33 PM
Dagnabit, I meant to put that link on the butterbar when Abs posted it. Thanks for the nudge, rasheed.
Betty
if Daisy'd been a boy, she might have been Rahsaan Thelonious. Or Stephen Vincent. Or Stephen Vincent Thelonious. Or Michael Thelonious.
We were still discussing it as I reached 7 cm.
5709. theDiva - 2/10/2002 7:33:12 PM
Nice pictures, Joe. I especially like the enormous heads. Thanks for posting them.
5710. betty - 2/10/2002 7:54:40 PM
Deev,
I like Monk too but if i had to choose a piano player it would be Sun Ra but hubby wasn't going for it!
5711. theDiva - 2/10/2002 7:55:17 PM
Betty
Geesh, what a stick-in-the-mud, eh? ;)
5712. betty - 2/10/2002 7:56:15 PM
he's so conservative. somedays it's like sleeping with Jerry Falwell.
5713. theDiva - 2/10/2002 7:56:49 PM
hahahahaha
5714. arkymalarky - 2/10/2002 11:21:35 PM
I know what you mean. I wanted to name Mose Rosalind Isolde and Bob shot that one right out of the water. Of course there was no musical connection. That must have been the problem.
5715. uzmakk - 2/11/2002 4:03:33 PM
Thank you, Wizard and Mr. Nilsson. Wizard, from whence came the bull slayer? Message # 5679
5716. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/11/2002 5:32:25 PM
uz- The image comes from this website . . .
5717. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/12/2002 8:40:03 PM
5718. judithathome - 2/12/2002 8:42:41 PM
Okay...what's that?
5719. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/12/2002 8:53:55 PM
You tell me, please.
5720. judithathome - 2/12/2002 8:56:08 PM
It looks like someone whose potential has been stifled...someone who doesn't believe in themselves and allows others to define them.
5721. betty - 2/12/2002 8:57:59 PM
looks like a mummy to me.
5722. judithathome - 2/12/2002 8:59:13 PM
Well, that, too! And I think you might be closer to the actual meaning than I...
5723. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/12/2002 9:06:53 PM
Interesting--thanks. It's part of Lazarus series I've been working on. It's a bronze bound figure with a blue-green patina.
5724. judithathome - 2/12/2002 9:12:21 PM
It's really nice...how tall is it? Is it life sized?
5725. betty - 2/12/2002 9:13:24 PM
Again Christianity rears it's head and I am left out of the symbolism. (not knowing Christian/Jewish Mythology has made me a complete failure as an occultist)
Lazarus was brought back to life by JC right?
5726. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/12/2002 9:14:14 PM
Thanks again. It's a small maquette, Judith--about 18"high.
5727. judithathome - 2/12/2002 9:17:51 PM
What is it standing against, Wiz? The lighting is superb, by the way...I love the maquette; how big will the finished piece be and and when will you cast it?
5728. judithathome - 2/12/2002 9:18:22 PM
Betty...yes, that's the guy.
5729. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/12/2002 9:20:26 PM
I was brought up Catholic, Betty, but I'm more of a Zen Buddhist tree-worshiper now . [Though it's often said, once a Catholic--always a Catholic.]
Lazarus is a kind of pheonix symbol and I tend to see a bound figure as a bandaged and immobile spirit, looking to be set free.
5730. theDiva - 2/12/2002 9:20:43 PM
That particular Lazarus, yes.
Interesting, unsettling piece, Wiz. I like it.
5731. theDiva - 2/12/2002 9:21:08 PM
xp w/Wiz
5732. betty - 2/12/2002 9:23:25 PM
But lots of people see bondage as a way of being free (and I'm not just talking sex here)...it's a pretty common thought amongst mystics from all religious backgrounds.
5733. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/12/2002 9:23:49 PM
A copper plate, Judith and I'll make it 18 feet --if I ever get a Medici to commission it.
5734. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/12/2002 9:24:39 PM
Thanks Deev!
5735. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/12/2002 9:25:39 PM
I like its levitational aspect.
5736. betty - 2/12/2002 9:28:44 PM
wiz,
my first thought when i saw the piece (other than my smart ass comment) was "Who's inside?". I was thinking it was a young woman trying to cheat the aging process through mummification. there is no indication that this might be true, just my first thought. then it seemed peaceful and that's what solidified my idea that it might be about cheating death/age because peace is the only way to do it.
Obviously, this makes less since in the context of Lazarus but it still retains peace and satisfaction.
5737. judithathome - 2/12/2002 9:30:47 PM
I think you could market the picture...it's very good, too.
I'd love to see that piece 18 feet tall...think you coan bring it along on the great road tour? ;-)
5738. judithathome - 2/12/2002 9:31:29 PM
How did that "o" get into the can?
5739. theDiva - 2/12/2002 9:35:10 PM
they probably put it in there before they sealed it shut.
5740. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/12/2002 9:36:56 PM
betty- I try to make the figures androgenous for any viewer, but I've also noticed that it's very difficult to identify the gender of an unwrapped mummy without looking directly at the genitalia.
Judith, that's the next tour . . ."Bronzes across America!" ;-}
5741. judithathome - 2/12/2002 9:39:21 PM
When you get here, I'll introduce you to our bronze guy...
5742. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/12/2002 9:39:24 PM
This is one of the studies for the maquette . . .
5743. judithathome - 2/12/2002 9:40:02 PM
Wonderful!
5744. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/12/2002 9:51:37 PM
Ta J.
[I'm listening to the Shays-Meehan debate on Cspan and I'm encouraged ...but I'm trying to expect defeat so I don't add to my bag of hopelessness.
Barney Frank is great!]
5745. betty - 2/12/2002 10:24:55 PM
My friend bart puts out this amazing "playlist" for his show Wreck This MeSS on Radio 100-Amsterdam. If you are a sonic explorer you will probably dig it just for the wealth of information he pours into the list. You can also listen to the show on the third Friday of every month.
You can also subscribe to this radiophotogram, so if yer interested let me know.
5746. judithathome - 2/13/2002 12:33:03 AM
Waylon Jennings, RIP...
5747. seadate - 2/13/2002 1:21:51 AM
He'd appreciate the wish from a good-hearted woman.
5748. arkymalarky - 2/13/2002 1:51:43 AM
I thought of a cocoon after reading the comments. I love it, Wiz.
5749. Property of Jesus - 2/13/2002 2:42:49 AM
Country Great Waylon Jennings, dead at 64, and I'm not feeling so good myself
5750. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/13/2050 3:43:33 PM
Thanks arky.
Happy Valentine's Day everyone!
5751. judithathome - 2/13/2050 4:43:36 PM
Looks Hawaiian to me!
5752. PelleNilsson - 2/13/2050 9:39:53 PM
Wiz
Your Lazarus is a powerful piece, even in two dimensions.
One day, when you have the time and inclination, you must tell us about the technique behind it.
5753. CalGal - 2/13/2050 10:59:46 PM
Steps, Steps, Steps
TNR piece about the "death" of ballet. I don't know enough about it to agree or disagree; but the section on ballet's history was interesting.
5754. judithathome - 2/13/2050 11:26:03 PM
As far as I can tell, I think the author of the article thinks it might be the death of ballet in New York City but that hardly encompasses all of ballet. I think she just wanted to us her old notes from school on the history of ballet and opened and closed the article lamenting the lame season just passed.
5755. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/15/2050 6:22:13 PM
Thanks Pelle. That piece was made with blocks of basswood, an aluminum armature wrapped with bronze mesh and soldered copper wire; It wasn't difficult to make, but very theraputically cathartic to execute.
This series deals with purging my grief. Diabetes has bound and killed many in my family and it's just a way for me to express the truth about human vulnerabilities in a healthy way.
I've always seen my efforts as a way to escape my cell . . . or as what's-her-name [senior moment] says: "Why does the caged bird sing?"
5756. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/15/2050 6:26:09 PM
Judith- That painting was done by Pat Steir, a woman who became enchanted by waterfalls.
5757. arkymalarky - 2/15/2050 6:28:35 PM
Maya Angelou--an Arky. Nice that we get to enjoy the product of what helps you.
5758. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/15/2050 6:31:20 PM
Thanksx2, ark!
5759. Ms. No - 2/18/2002 8:10:54 PM
date stamp testing
5760. Property of Jesus - 2/20/2002 4:20:15 PM
Listening to Al Green "Take Me to the River", new 2-CD greatest hits collection that is also a DVD.
I'm sure I must have been black in an earlier life because I sure have lots of soul. Lots of it. Just this morning on the way to work, I was singing Green's "I Can't Get Next to You" and people in other cars at the red light were smiling and singing with me.
Let it shine.
5761. Property of Jesus - 2/20/2002 4:24:22 PM
5762. judithathome - 2/20/2002 4:26:28 PM
Maybe it is...
5763. theDiva - 2/20/2002 5:01:46 PM
Cause Al already has it.
5764. Property of Jesus - 2/20/2002 5:27:19 PM
Nothing takes the place of you, Diva.
5765. theDiva - 2/20/2002 5:27:43 PM
That's what they tell me.
5766. Property of Jesus - 2/20/2002 5:41:29 PM
I think my favorite Al Green song is "THE SPIRIT MIGHT COME--On and On."
I even got our church chorus to include it at a special mass we did on Christian diversity tunes.
5767. theDiva - 2/20/2002 5:43:03 PM
I haven't heard that one. Mine is 'Love and Happiness'. Damn fine record.
What parish are you in? Have you ever been down to St. Augustine's to hear their choir? They are marvelous.
5768. Property of Jesus - 2/20/2002 5:51:46 PM
St. Raphael Catholic Community in Rockville because of its children programs. Almost a 1/3 of the parishioners are Hispanic. Very active parish.
We used to be part of the rich church in Potomac called "Our Lady of Mercy" but we quickly learned its real name was "Our Lady of Mercedes Benz."
5769. theDiva - 2/20/2002 5:54:50 PM
hahahaha
I'm at Holy Family. Our Hispanic community is pretty huge, too...the whole parish is very diverse. Makes for a nice atmosphere, lots of activity and vibrancy.
You aren't DC diocese, are you?
5770. Property of Jesus - 2/20/2002 6:02:43 PM
You're Catholic, and a liberal? How is that possible?
We must be part of the DC diocese, but the archbishop is based in Baltimore. I don't pay attention to that sort of stuff.
5771. theDiva - 2/20/2002 6:07:21 PM
It isn't possible, at least not for me. Who told you I was a liberal?
You must Baltimore Diocese if that's where your bishop is.
5772. theDiva - 2/20/2002 6:08:31 PM
be Baltimore etc. etc.
5773. wabbit - 2/20/2002 6:47:44 PM
A few weeks ago, I saw Les Paul at the Iridium in NYC. I was surprised he was still performing at 87 years of age, but he is still a great show and worth the pilgrimage.
Also, anyone who has the chance to see Wiz's work in person should definitely do so. Web reproductions don't do it justice.
5774. arkymalarky - 2/20/2002 8:17:31 PM
Hewwoooo Wabbit!!! My brother will be absolutely green with envy when I tell him.
5775. arkymalarky - 2/20/2002 8:17:56 PM
PJ,
Al Green and Marvin Gaye are both from AR.
5776. judithathome - 2/20/2002 8:31:20 PM
5777. Property of Jesus - 2/20/2002 8:35:41 PM
Marvin Gaye is from DC, dumpling. His father, the murderer, was a minister here.
Al Green made his best music in Memphis, TN.
"Introducing the real Al Green is like introducing three different people," writes the artist in his harrowing heartfelt autobiogrpahy, "Take Me To the River," each one with his own point of view and each one with his own side of the story. And more often than not, they're all fighting with each other, trying to call the shots and rule the roost. The Al Green onstage bears no resemblance to the Al Green in the pulpit. The Al Green who sings "You Ought To Be With Me" wants nothing to do with the one who sings "Jesus is Waiting." That Al Green standing in the wings has got nothing to do with the Al Green kneeling in his prayer closet. Most of the time they can't even stand living in the same skin. --from the CD notes.
Now I understand why I like him.
5778. arkymalarky - 2/20/2002 8:43:52 PM
Bob told me that Gaye was born in AR, and I believe Al Green was from West Memphis, which is AR.
5779. Property of Jesus - 2/20/2002 8:54:55 PM
Okay, if Bob said it, how can I disagree.
Gaye, the father, was a minister in Washington, DC, when Marvin was a boy. Of course Gaye moved to Motown as a teenager. He died in California
Green never left Memphis, whatever state it's in.
5780. arkymalarky - 2/20/2002 8:57:00 PM
I don't know for a fact about Gaye. Bob is rarely wrong, but it does occasionally happen.
Those Tennessee folks are too dadgummed snobby to admit they share the Home of the Blues with us Arkies, but we're where the inspiration for them came from. If you've ever seen the Mississippi Delta in AR you know what I'm talking about.
5781. theDiva - 2/20/2002 8:58:52 PM
Though I cannot blame Bob the arky for wanting to claim the utterly cool and completely sublime Marvin Gaye as a homie, I have to tell you that yes, Marvin Pentz Gaye, Jr. was indeed born and bred in Washington, D.C.
5782. arkymalarky - 2/20/2002 9:06:29 PM
I wonder where Bob got that he was an Arky? I ain't giving up Al, though.
5783. theDiva - 2/20/2002 9:08:33 PM
You shouldn't. He was born in Forrest City in 1946.
5784. arkymalarky - 2/20/2002 9:11:00 PM
Hey! He's not even borderline. That's cool.
5785. theDiva - 2/20/2002 9:21:49 PM
Honey, the Delta is da bomb.
5786. Property of Jesus - 2/20/2002 11:25:37 PM
Al Green upbringing was in the tiny Arkansas hamlet of Jacknash and his real name is Al Greene. At age 10 he moved to Grand Rapids, MI, and he now is the preacher at a small church in suburban Memphis.
The article doesn't says what state Memphis is in.
5787. arkymalarky - 2/20/2002 11:37:06 PM
See? Pure snobbery.
5788. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/22/2002 2:57:28 AM
More arts elitism, please, with cherries on top . . .
5789. Property of Jesus - 2/22/2002 5:39:58 AM
Freewheelin' Dylan caters to Country Crowd playing at Rodeo
5790. PelleNilsson - 2/23/2002 9:34:19 PM
Dave Barry on the Arts
We Americans tend to assume that the British are more intelligent than we are, because they speak with British accents. That's why we need to know about the Turner Prize.
This is a much-publicized prize awarded annually to a British artist. The people who award it say it's ''one of the most important and prestigious awards for the visual arts in Europe.'' Besides prestige, the winner gets 20,000 pounds, which, if you convert it to American dollars, is a large wad of American dollars.
The 2001 Turner Prize went to an artist named Martin Creed, whose entry was entitled: ''The Lights Going On and Off.'' It consists, as the title suggests, of lights going on and off in a vacant room. They go on for five seconds, then off for five seconds. That's it. In other words, this guy got 20,000 pounds for demonstrating the same artistic talent as a defective circuit breaker.
Here's the scary part: He deserved to win. I say this because, according to BBC News, his strongest competition was an artist whose entry consisted of a dusty room ''filled with an array of disparate objects, including a plastic cactus, mirrors, doors and old tabloid newspapers.'' Some gallery visitors mistook this for an actual storeroom, before realizing that it was art.
You should know that the artistry of Martin Creed is not limited to blinking lights. Another of his works is entitled ''A sheet of A4 paper crumpled into a ball.'' It's a piece of paper crumpled into a ball. Perhaps you're thinking: ``How come when I crumple paper, it's trash, but when this guy does it, it's art?''
5791. wonkers2 - 2/23/2002 9:43:36 PM
Good question. Shades of Marcel Duchamps.
5793. theDiva - 2/26/2002 2:07:44 PM
that piece is hilarious.
5794. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/26/2002 3:38:53 PM
. . .and pathetic.
5795. judithathome - 2/26/2002 3:41:18 PM
Well, Barry has to fill a page every Sunday, you know.
5796. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/26/2002 3:44:14 PM
Oh no, sorry, I meant the so called Art World is pathetic.
5797. judithathome - 2/26/2002 3:53:59 PM
So who is that award named for, anyhow? Is it for the painter or for some patron?
5798. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/26/2002 5:29:12 PM
It's name after Ike & Tina . . .
;-}
5799. judithathome - 2/26/2002 5:33:42 PM
Amazing how much that view has stayed the same these many years...
5800. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/26/2002 6:24:41 PM
Yes . . .and the water is still shit-brown!
5801. Property of Jesus - 2/26/2002 8:58:21 PM
Latest CD for the collection:
"A Tribute to Curtis Mayfield."
5802. theDiva - 2/26/2002 9:39:49 PM
keep on truckin, baaaybaaaaay....
5803. Property of Jesus - 2/27/2002 12:15:47 AM
Don't you mean "...keep on pushin'", Gypsy Woman?
My favorite Mayfield tunes are: Choice of Colors, Billy Jack, You Must Believe Me and People Get Ready.
And Amen.
The man just oozes love, peace and understanding.
5804. Property of Jesus - 2/27/2002 12:19:52 AM
Ooops, I forgot WOMAN'S GOT SOUL and IT'S ALL RIGHT!
5805. Property of Jesus - 2/27/2002 3:03:29 AM
NPR CULTURAL PROGRAMMING PUT TO TRIAGE from Washington Post
5806. Property of Jesus - 2/27/2002 4:44:50 AM
Great smoking 12-bar blues CRY A WHILE by Bob Dylan on the Grammy Awards tonight. Cowboy hat fit like a charm.
I'm sure he did the song because it included the line: "I don't carry dead weight. I'm no flash in the pan."
Lost to Ralph Stanley and the OH BROTHER album, thou. I bet he didn't mind.
5807. arkymalarky - 2/27/2002 5:20:01 AM
Woulda been better than wasting time on that stupid Razorback game.
5808. Cellar Door - 2/27/2002 6:38:14 PM
5809. Ms. No - 2/27/2002 6:49:28 PM
Anybody know who had the definitive version of I Who Have Nothing?
I always thought it was Shirley Bassey, but apparently it was big for both Tom Jones and Neil Diamond as well.
5810. theDiva - 2/27/2002 6:51:26 PM
Lionel Hampton.
Well, either Hamp, or Jedi Mind Tricks.
5811. Ms. No - 2/27/2002 6:56:44 PM
Thanks Deev!
I've gotten very fond of singing this on Saturday evenings at the karaoke joint. A definite crowd pleaser.
5812. judithathome - 2/27/2002 7:01:33 PM
I liked Tom's version, myself.
5813. theDiva - 2/27/2002 7:03:29 PM
MsNo
If you're singing it, then yours is the definitive version, dear.
5814. Ms. No - 2/27/2002 7:30:45 PM
blush
SMOOCH!!
5815. Ms. No - 2/27/2002 7:31:25 PM
J,
Tom's version is the one they've got at karaoke, but I've never heard him do it so I just follow the music and sing it as best I can figure out for myself.
5816. arkymalarky - 2/28/2002 1:05:24 AM
Tom Jones' version is great.
5817. Property of Jesus - 2/28/2002 2:45:02 AM
Karaoke is king.
Our family members do it every time we go on skiing trips to our winter resort to win free lift tickets. Sorta like THE SOUND OF MUSIC, punk style.
Worked two out of three times we've tried.
5818. arkymalarky - 2/28/2002 2:52:11 AM
The VonTrapps on acid?
5819. stostosto - 3/7/2002 4:05:17 PM
Me and my wife actually went to a concert last night, I can't recall when we did that last. It was a performance by Marilyn Mazur and her band Future Song. Bloody brilliant musicians, and music in the vein of, oh, Weather Report/Wayne Shorter/Miles Davis/Pierre Dørge/Palle Mikkelborg. That is, extremely complex rhythms (beats of 13/17, 7/9 etc.), the sort that makes your feet tap along -- until you realise you have lost "tap" somewhere along the road. With all the multitudinous rhythms pulsating organically like a rain forest on steroids, I find it paradoxical that the music is actually of a very introvert quality. I chalk that up to the cool, skewed, and endlessly sustained harmonies (I actually think most numbers had no shift in harmony) over which the musicians build elaborate and wildly straying telephone doodles.
Of course, they're not doodling at all, everything is as tightly controlled as in a symphonic orchestra, and sometimes you suddenly have two or more instruments and/or vocals following an intricate staccato disharmonic arabesque in perfect unison.
You're put in various kinds of contemplating states, at times meditative, at times unsettling, but it is, ultimately, music for the mind much more than for the body. Even as your body may want to catch up.
A final note: I saw Mazur with Miles Davis in 1988, and I saw her with Pierre Dørge around the same time. And it seems to me she has remained in that same area, musically. Had the concert been played in 1985, it wouldn't have been out of place at all. Also, the audience wouldn't, I am sorry to say. We were actually among the very youngest attendees there. Funny.
5820. joezan - 3/8/2002 1:17:28 AM
My personal karaoke fav:
Margaritaville - I rock that song, accent and all.
5821. arkymalarky - 3/8/2002 2:16:18 AM
I can just imagine.
5822. Property of Jesus - 3/8/2002 2:17:48 AM
Good one, especially if your barefoot.
My singing speciality is the swampy sounds of CCR's "Green River."
5823. arkymalarky - 3/8/2002 2:21:21 AM
Oh man, the images I'm getting here.
This is no way to spend a Friday night.
5824. joezan - 3/8/2002 2:21:37 AM
Arky:
One listen and your little hillbilly heart'd be swoonin'.
5825. arkymalarky - 3/8/2002 2:23:02 AM
I feel sorta faint right now--or woozy or something.
5826. marjoribanks - 3/9/2002 6:19:27 PM
Museum Saturday:
--
--
--
5827. judithathome - 3/9/2002 7:04:55 PM
Nice shots...I'm surprised they allow photography in the museum, though. It's strictly taboo at ours.
5828. Property of Jesus - 3/9/2002 7:15:36 PM
Color-bar art? I've seen better TV test patterns. Ugly, ugly, ugly. Another example of how crack coke has screwed up the cuture.
5829. marjoribanks - 3/9/2002 7:29:15 PM
Judith,
As far as I know, only flash photography is prohibited at the Met (where those photos were taken yesterday). In any case, I was moved to take them, rules or not, because the three of us were left almost entirely alone in a huge section of the place. Most vistors apparently thronged the interesting new show on Surrealism, which we wandered through as well.
--
Jesus, you buffoon, that last photograph is of an Ellsworth Kelly piece which mightily pre-dates crack cocaine.
5830. marjoribanks - 3/9/2002 7:31:00 PM
Judith,
As far as I know, only flash photography is prohibited at the Met (where those photos were taken yesterday). In any case, I was moved to take them, rules or not, because the three of us were left almost entirely alone in a huge section of the place. Most vistors apparently thronged the interesting new show on Surrealism, which we wandered through as well.
--
Jesus, you buffoon, that last photograph is of an Ellsworth Kelly piece which mightily pre-dates crack cocaine.
5831. judithathome - 3/9/2002 7:33:22 PM
Yes Rosetta, just because you sound as though you're ON crack most of the time, don't attribute it's use to things you can't grasp.
5832. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 3/9/2002 7:33:35 PM
If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail!
5833. marjoribanks - 3/9/2002 7:37:08 PM
Wiz,
Just the man I'm looking for. Can you tell me who the artist is of the piece in the first shot? It's an American, and I seem to recall a last name starting with S.
5834. betty - 3/9/2002 9:24:46 PM
Marj,
your photos and story remind me of the photos we took of Sofi at the Phila. MoA. We were left alone in the room devoted to Twombly and Sofi went crazy. something about his work really resonated with her. (probably has nothing to do with the fact that it looks an awful lot like her "work")
PoJ,
if you like the Ellsworth Kelly piece you'll love Barnett Newman's stuff.
5835. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 3/10/2002 12:17:10 AM
Marj- Clifford Still--a California Abstract Expressionist . . .
5836. Property of Jesus - 3/10/2002 12:50:31 AM
Junk is junk and one needs to be candid about saying it.
Some things are obvious. Clearly the "artwork" isn't popular since there isn't anyone looking at it.
5838. marjoribanks - 3/10/2002 4:18:01 PM
Thanks Wiz!
You the man.
5839. joezan - 3/10/2002 4:20:38 PM
Hey, Banks - you gonna get some pics of the light tribute and post them?
5840. betty - 3/10/2002 4:23:41 PM
PoJ,
art is subjective but it's rarely junk.
5841. marjoribanks - 3/10/2002 4:37:23 PM
Zan, I have one, actually. Funny you should ask. But it's totally unclear (because I took it with my digital from outside my apartment).
---
Betty,
Your kid must indeed have liked Twombly, I've thought of exposing my toddler to that stuff but have resisted lest he does get "inspired".
Can you tell what's going on?
5842. marjoribanks - 3/10/2002 4:38:29 PM
The light display does fill some of the space emptied by the attack of 9/11, but inadequately.
5843. betty - 3/10/2002 4:39:04 PM
Can you tell what's going on?
I don't understand what you are asking.
5844. marjoribanks - 3/10/2002 4:42:09 PM
My mistake. That sentence was part of the blurbs to Zan and I interjected the bit to you.
Can you tell what's going on in the photo of the light display at the WTC site, is what I meant. If you look carefully, you can see the trace of the beam.
5845. betty - 3/10/2002 4:46:16 PM
it's very faint, and if i didn't know the NY skyline so well I might not catch it.
We went to visit alf's grandmother for thanksgiving and i must admit it was weird seeing that hole.
5846. joezan - 3/10/2002 7:54:12 PM
Thanks marj.
Gee...
I hope it gets better than that.
5847. judithathome - 3/10/2002 7:55:20 PM
It was supposed to be observable from outer space...
5848. joezan - 3/10/2002 8:03:43 PM
Gotta be the Jersey air.
I bet those lights lit up homes in Montauk point, 120 miles the other way.
5849. betty - 3/10/2002 8:07:53 PM
hey joe,
that picture of you from 1974 makes you look like somebody my mama might have dated...what were you doing in August of 1975?
5850. joezan - 3/10/2002 8:23:32 PM
betty:
Ummmmm....
That's a hard one.
Lemme see.
I was doing either coke or window pane on Long Island - can't remember.
Anyway - I just found this one and scanned it in for more hair jokes:
5851. joezan - 3/10/2002 8:29:45 PM
That's a Christ Head medallion I'm wearing, btw. Standard issue for Long Island Italian guys.
By the next year, medallions for Italians had increased significantly in size and heft, and I got me an Ankh as big as my thumb.
And I didn't cut my hair - not even a trim - till 1978.
5852. Property of Jesus - 3/10/2002 8:30:02 PM
Looks like some Andy Warhol's models.
5853. joezan - 3/10/2002 8:33:56 PM
That's Universal Studios in Hollywood, btw - before it was a theme park.
My uncle knew some hotshot Universal lawyer, so we got to walk around the whole lot at our leisure...we were even extras (unpaid) in some show they were filming a scene in at the Merrill Lynch building on the studio property.
5854. joezan - 3/10/2002 8:38:07 PM
POJ:
I have to agree, if only to keep this all within the realm of Popular Art.
5855. theDiva - 3/10/2002 8:39:49 PM
nice pecs
5856. joezan - 3/10/2002 8:49:16 PM
Deev:
Would it embarrass you to know those pecs were only 15 y.o. in that picture?
5857. theDiva - 3/10/2002 8:51:37 PM
well, I was only 15 when that picture was taken, so I suppose it's okay.
5858. betty - 3/10/2002 8:55:28 PM
joe,
I'm embarrassed to know you were only 15 yo. Can somebody take that down, it could be considered child porn.
5859. uzmakk - 3/10/2002 9:00:43 PM
I have what appears to be a fairy tale in my possession. It is entitled BALLADY, printed in Polish, authored by Fredrich Schiller. Does anyone know the story?
5860. uzmakk - 3/10/2002 9:02:14 PM
I ask because it could help me with the book's decoration.
5861. PelleNilsson - 3/10/2002 9:21:29 PM
uzmakk
A search on 'ballady schiller' turns up quite a few sites, all in Polish. Ergo, you need to get hold of a Polish speaker.
5862. uzmakk - 3/10/2002 11:00:30 PM
Thank you, Mr. Nilsson. That would not be hard, but I doubt I will bother. I'm in the swing and I don't have time to stop. I will simply onlay the title on the front board. Thank you, again.
5863. marjoribanks - 3/10/2002 11:12:29 PM
Those 70's photos are just classic.
5864. theDiva - 3/12/2002 9:13:49 PM
Here's a 70s photo for you...note the elongated collar, aviator glasses, and requisite long hair.
5865. betty - 3/12/2002 9:16:07 PM
Oh you doll! What a collegiate looking cutie.
I'll dig up some photos of me from the 70's...of course I was only 4 when they ended...
5866. theDiva - 3/12/2002 9:18:13 PM
ha! Thanks....that was taken my senior year at Mount St. Dominic. This one was taken about a year or so later, after my entrance at NYU and subsequent punk phase.
5867. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 3/13/2002 6:27:47 AM
From innocent to sultry in the flash of a flash.
I also see your babies in those pics . . . you dish!
5868. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 3/13/2002 7:13:30 AM
FYI Dept.: I recently bought Roxio's Toast 5 for the MAC and it is a remarkable piece of reasonably priced software--provided you have the ability to burn your own CDs.
When I was in Brazil at various times, I bought lots of music that was unavailable here. Ten or fifteen years ago, I lent out some of my favorite Brazilian albums to a Cuban woman (who also loved their music), but she moved away without returning my records.
On one of the albums was a song called Simplesmente (which means only or solely in Portuguese) sung by a very young Caetano Veloso or his sister Maria Bethania (when they were both younger, it was often difficult to tell them apart).
Fortunately, I like to make compilations of my favorites and I happened to make one compilation cassette that had this song on it. Unfortunately, the copy was made on a second rate tape deck. Regardless of the pops and scratches from the original album, it was still a joy to me because the song was so haunting. I don't want to even think about what other songs were lost.
Anyway, I have relentlessly scoured discographies in search of this song in hopes of finding a noise-free version, but to no avail. There are other songs with the same name, in Spanish as well as Portuguese, but not the song I'm looking for.
The reader is probably wondering what does all this have to do with Toast 5. Today I happened upon a section of the Toast manual that described an additional piece of software that comes bundled with it--namely Spin_Doctor. This incredibly easy to use app allows one to digitize an analog signal (a cassette or LP) as well as filter out any noise or pops AND enhance the signal to one's own tonal tastes and audio predilections.
I now have this song booming in my Passat, my studio and my Walkman and it sounds as good as any of the remastered CDs I listen to.
5869. betty - 3/13/2002 1:57:06 PM
Deev,
at least there's 20 years between you and those photos...you look good, by the way, as a punker...I should have known better than to wear this shirt...
5870. betty - 3/13/2002 1:58:17 PM
well, that shirt
5871. betty - 3/13/2002 1:59:15 PM
oh forget it.
5872. joezan - 3/13/2002 2:08:27 PM
Deev, you hottie!
(No wonder you didn't become a nun!)
5873. Dr.XavierTColtrane - 3/13/2002 9:58:30 PM
What is the definitive Barry White album?
5874. theDiva - 3/14/2002 3:12:17 PM
aw shucks, thanks, guys....
5875. judithathome - 3/14/2002 4:03:27 PM
This is the theatre I was discussing in the Cafe...
Fort Worth Theatre
5876. wabbit - 3/26/2002 8:06:03 PM
RIP Dudley Moore
5877. judithathome - 3/26/2002 8:07:30 PM
Oh what a bummer!
5878. betty - 3/28/2002 7:45:28 PM
today's work day albums:
Zap Mama: A Ma Zone
The Donnas: Turn 21
Sleater Kinney: All Hands On the Bad One
5879. betty - 3/28/2002 9:57:56 PM
add:
Prince: The Hits 2
5880. betty - 4/1/2002 7:21:29 PM
Today's work day hits:
Pizzicato Five: Happy End of the World
Serge Gainsbourg: Comic Strip
Mad Professor: Dub Maniacs on the Rampage
Herbie Hancock: Head Hunter
5881. betty - 4/2/2002 7:27:40 PM
today's work along songs (you know I'm just gonna keep posting these till someobdy has something more interesting to talk about):
Beastie Boys: Anthology, The Sounds of Science
5882. Erinys - 4/3/2002 7:40:46 AM
I'm mellow today, I have not thrown any paint on any walls.
betty.
5883. betty - 4/4/2002 3:34:15 PM
I missed my posting time during work yesterday.
the selection was:
Bill Frisell & Vernon Reid: Smash & Scatterings
5884. judithathome - 4/4/2002 3:37:43 PM
We're going to a play tonight. It's called Sueño...anyone heard of it? I'll try to dig up some info on it.
5885. theDiva - 4/4/2002 3:40:28 PM
No, that's a new one on me. How are things going with the Fort Worth Theatre? Is this where you're going to see the play?
5886. wonkers2 - 4/4/2002 3:53:45 PM
I think sueno means dream in Spanish. BTW how did you manage to get the tilde over the n in sueno?
5887. judithathome - 4/4/2002 3:58:46 PM
Wonkers, I have a list of characters I can do taped inside the door of my desk bookcase....you depress the alt key and add three to four numerals to it while holding it down and the letter magically appears.
I'm sure others can give you the technical term for this and better instructions but that is how I do it.
5888. judithathome - 4/4/2002 4:00:23 PM
Diva, I'm going to another theatre for this play but Fort Worth Theatre is having their huge sale this weekend and it looks as though there will be at least one more production there this season. Thanks for asking!
5889. theDiva - 4/4/2002 4:38:58 PM
That's great, Judith!
5890. CharlieL - 4/4/2002 7:33:45 PM
If you are using Windows, you can also get tildes and all sorts of other characters by cutting and pasting from the Character Map program.
5891. betty - 4/4/2002 7:53:12 PM
well, I was running late today so forgot to grab the Cd I really feel like listening to...Bitches Brew...so instead we'll have a disturbing silence.
5892. judithathome - 4/4/2002 8:13:53 PM
Okay, found out more about the play but unfortunately, we are having to cancel our plans for tonight and reschedule for later in the month. That's cool because by then, our houseguests will be back from their side trip and will be able to go, too.
The play is an adaptation of a 1638 play called Life Is A Dream by Pedro Calderon de la Barca...the adaptation is done by José Rivera. It is the story of Segismundo, the son of the King of Spain...the King had the boy raised in a tower in Poland so he wouldn't become a tyrant; when the lad is brought back to Spain and told the truth of his past, he is angered and the King sends him back to Poland where he is drugged and told it has all been a dream. Sounds positively riveting, huh? ;-)
5893. wonkers2 - 4/4/2002 8:45:51 PM
Thanks, Charlie! If only I knew how to cut and paste!
5894. judithathome - 4/4/2002 8:55:00 PM
Wonkers...I'll list a few characters for you; depress the ALT key and hold it down, then punch these #s:
é....0233
Ñ....165
ñ....164
à....0224
á....0225
° (degree mark)...0176
¢....0162
ü....0252
©....0169
™....0153
5895. betty - 4/4/2002 8:58:21 PM
judith,
I'm gonna copy your post onto Suggestions, see if we can't get that added to the HTML Hints page or some more appropriate place.
5896. wonkers2 - 4/4/2002 9:00:41 PM
n
5897. judithathome - 4/4/2002 9:05:59 PM
Wonkers, hold the ALT key down while you do the numbers...
5898. judithathome - 4/4/2002 9:07:16 PM
And I think you have to do the numbers on the keypad, not the ones above the letters...god, am computer-illerate or what?!!
5899. betty - 4/4/2002 9:08:35 PM
OMIGAWD™
5900. wonkers2 - 4/4/2002 9:09:20 PM
Thanks, Judith. But I couldn't make it work. It took me around a year to learn to do links. I tried posting an n with a tilde and I tried in Microsoft Word and couldn't make it work.
5901. judithathome - 4/4/2002 9:10:09 PM
Did you use the key pad numerals?
5902. wonkers2 - 4/4/2002 9:11:21 PM
Yes. Should I use the ones at the top? F1,F2,etc?
5903. theDiva - 4/4/2002 9:13:44 PM
no, those are your function keys. Hold down the ALT key while typing in the numbers on the keypad at the right of your keyboard.
5904. wonkers2 - 4/4/2002 9:14:44 PM
ñ, voila! thanks!
5905. theDiva - 4/4/2002 9:18:17 PM
™ ” ~ “ ™
5906. CalGal - 4/4/2002 9:23:08 PM
It's actually pretty easy to use the character map, then you don't have to know the codes.
5907. theDiva - 4/4/2002 9:30:35 PM
but then you don't get that little charge that comes from having it pop up all by itself!
hahaha
5908. CalGal - 4/4/2002 9:37:00 PM
True nuff. I reject Power User standing; it is a dangerous thing to a contractor. (g)
5909. theDiva - 4/7/2002 7:11:19 PM
I am quite taken by this:
Pennsylvania Country Road, 1961(?), George Tice
5910. betty - 4/7/2002 7:13:35 PM
Today's selection:
Yma Sumac's brilliant Mambo! as issued by The Right Stuff.
favourite track: Goomba Boomba...otherworldly perhaps.
5911. judithathome - 4/7/2002 7:13:40 PM
Spooky...
5912. judithathome - 4/7/2002 7:14:22 PM
...if you drive off the edge, it looks like you'd fall into the abyss.
5913. betty - 4/7/2002 7:14:49 PM
lovely photo...
5914. theDiva - 4/7/2002 7:15:26 PM
Interesting take, Judith. I see it as the road to heaven.
5915. theDiva - 4/7/2002 7:17:34 PM
From his gallery's website:
George Tice is one of the finest American photographers of his generation. His body of work has continually focussed on the American rural and suburban landscape. The Lancaster, Pennsylvania series concentrates on the daily life of the Amish people and their integration with the landscape around them. Tice's other work features the architectural and industrial motifs that identify American society.
Tice is especially well-known for his printing skill. His image of "Country Road" is a fine example of this. He served as master printer for Edward Steichen as well as printing the portfolios of such artists as Frederick H. Evans and Edward Weston.
Tice's photographs have been exhibited extensively throughout the United States and abroad. His photographs can be found in such prestigious collections as that of the Museum of Modern Art, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and the Art Institute of Chicago.
5916. judithathome - 4/7/2002 7:23:30 PM
I'd always thought of heaven as a place of light and brightness...
5917. betty - 4/7/2002 7:24:40 PM
I see it as the road to coke deals between technology resisters and bike gangs, to centuries of low variety gene pool reproduction resulting in quirky genetic characteristics, to animals that are seriously overworked and abused and to cheap well made furniture for those with a "Country Cottage" decorating fetish.
5918. theDiva - 4/7/2002 7:27:29 PM
Judith
Yes, but see how the road, as it curves upward, becomes progressively lighter? I think my perception is informed by my Catholicism, quite honestly...I see myself as having to travel through darkness before I attain heaven....
Betty
yer crackin me up here, kid!
5919. judithathome - 4/7/2002 7:30:33 PM
I see myself as having to travel through darkness before I attain heaven....
I can't imagine you ever being in the dark, Deev.
5920. theDiva - 4/7/2002 7:32:00 PM
Judith
You're very kind to say so. Thanks.
5921. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 8:03:14 PM
Deev,
When I first saw it, I had no idea that it was a car on a road but I did get the image of travelling up a pathway to greater light through the void. It's haunting and beautiful, both.
Hmmm...there's gotta be a class "How to See Art With Throug the Catholic Eye"
5922. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 8:03:32 PM
insert 'h' where needed.
5923. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 8:04:12 PM
uh...and nevermind that superfluous "With".
5924. betty - 4/7/2002 8:07:39 PM
Ms. No,
don't they have art with a nun on public TV? that would seem to qualify. Perhaps Deev could get a job as her assistant, though i'm sure it would have to be a labor of love knowing how much public TV pays.
5925. theDiva - 4/7/2002 8:10:15 PM
Sister Wendy, and she is wonderful. And seeing as how much of the art of the Renaissance, let's say, was ecclesiastical, Ms.No may just have something there.
5926. Rivendell - 4/7/2002 9:34:30 PM
It looks as though the car, a VW bug if my eyes haven't abandoned me, is moving toward the photographer and hence towards the darkness rather than the light.
Does this make the photo more Sartre than Aquinas?
5927. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 9:36:34 PM
Actually, I noticed that, but it's not what I saw to begin with so it's hard for me to see it now.
5928. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 9:37:28 PM
Although, it wouldn't surprise me if Christ were to drive an old Beatle. Maybe it's the Second Coming?
5929. Rivendell - 4/7/2002 9:37:53 PM
Ms.No,
Hello.
And can you translate your last for me?
5930. Rivendell - 4/7/2002 9:39:26 PM
Which would Christ choose to drive? Paul or Ringo? I suppose He would also have access to George and John too.
5931. theDiva - 4/7/2002 9:40:38 PM
Riv
Do you remember the story behind that lyric in 'On Eagles Wings' - upon their hands they will bear you up lest you dash your foot against a stone.... backing into the future, eyes on the past, with angels guarding you every step of the way.
Now you see?
5932. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 9:40:55 PM
Hi FS!
Oh, sorry, struck by a low-flying tangent again. Yes, I can see that it's a VW Beatle and yes it appears to be driving from the light into the dark so, naturally, to keep it in theme with my first impression I'm putting Christ behind the wheel coming to pick up wandering, hitch-hiker souls. ;->
5933. theDiva - 4/7/2002 9:41:36 PM
beetle.
5934. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 9:42:19 PM
He'd have to drive a Ringo.....although I think George was the most likely to have been "driven" by spiritual impulses.
5935. Rivendell - 4/7/2002 9:42:40 PM
Diva,
It is actually the cover art from that PA Amish country group. The title song is, "Driving the Wrong Way on the Road to Heaven."
It was a hit with the east coast Billie Ray Cyrus crowd.
5936. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 9:43:21 PM
oh.
my.
goodness.
I.
am.
such.
a.
dolt.
5937. Rivendell - 4/7/2002 9:44:07 PM
Diva,
Sort of a Psalm 92 photo?
5938. judithathome - 4/7/2002 9:44:20 PM
But the Beatles he'd be closest to are John and George while the Beetle he might drive could be a Passat...
5939. judithathome - 4/7/2002 9:46:39 PM
MsNo:
You may be a dolt but I am looking more like one, being so slow to post...you guys are past and done with the Beatle/Beetle talk and onto something else while I'm still typing....
5940. theDiva - 4/7/2002 9:48:07 PM
Riv
yes. Now be serious, this thread is supposed to have GRAVITAS.
hahahahahah
5941. Rivendell - 4/7/2002 9:48:41 PM
Juditha,
Anyone who goes to see as many plays as you can be forgiven for being a slow typist.
5942. judithathome - 4/7/2002 9:51:00 PM
Thanks, Riv....{{blush}}
5943. Property of Jesus - 4/7/2002 9:51:53 PM
Just purchased Brian Wilson's "Live at the Roxy Theatre."
Wonderful, sparkling music but, when speaking between songs, it sounds like my favorite Beach Boys has a lisp.
Don't tell me he's one of those????
5944. theDiva - 4/7/2002 9:53:14 PM
Here's another one from the series:
5945. judithathome - 4/7/2002 9:53:32 PM
People with speech impediments? What's wrong with that?
5946. Rivendell - 4/7/2002 9:54:31 PM
Gravitas... hmmm....
I did mention Sartre and Aquinas in the same post.
I'm tryin'
5947. theDiva - 4/7/2002 9:54:44 PM
this is a beautifully printed photo, evident even in this form. There's plenty of visible detail in the shadows, yet you can also see the pure whites in the sunlit portions. Nice.
5948. theDiva - 4/7/2002 9:55:22 PM
Riv
That was impressive. You got points for that.
5949. Cellar Door - 4/7/2002 9:57:00 PM
Brian Wilson gives heterosexuality a good name.
5950. Rivendell - 4/7/2002 9:57:28 PM
The sink in that photo looks like it came out of my old apartment in south St. Louis.
5951. judithathome - 4/7/2002 9:58:13 PM
I'm trying to decipher the exterior of the shop...I see trucks driving by and what looks like palms in the distance...that couldn't be, could it?
5952. PelleNilsson - 4/7/2002 10:01:07 PM
Reminds me of hotel rooms in the 60s. One used to pee in them after a night on town.
How is that for gravitas?
5953. Rivendell - 4/7/2002 10:02:43 PM
I see the trucks, but the palms escape me.
5954. judithathome - 4/7/2002 10:04:15 PM
Well, they are very distant...and are probably vacant windows on an old building way across the street.
5955. Rivendell - 4/7/2002 10:04:56 PM
BTW Diva, your points about the light and shadow are well taken. It is very difficult to achieve that clarity in both on B&W film.
5956. theDiva - 4/7/2002 10:07:21 PM
Pelle
You funnel-hat wearin' wildman....
Riv
Color covers a multitude of sins. The measure of a photographer can be taken in the use of b/w.
5957. Rivendell - 4/7/2002 10:07:45 PM
Another interesting thing about the same point. My eyes are drawn immediately to the brightly lit areas and the shadows only reveal themselves to me after looking in them for a second or two, as though my eyes were actually adjusting to the light differential rather than looking at a photo in unchanging light.
5958. Rivendell - 4/7/2002 10:10:50 PM
Unfortunately very few photographers spend much time working in BW anymore.
5959. judithathome - 4/7/2002 10:14:05 PM
I was told in class that B&W covers a multitude of sins...because you can compose without regard to color, concentrating on form. I prefer B&W because of that very factor...
5960. theDiva - 4/7/2002 10:14:21 PM
Riv
when you're designing lighting for a show, do you find yourself relying on memories of paintings and photos for inspiration?
5961. betty - 4/7/2002 10:14:27 PM
Riv,
your statement puzzles me. I think that BW is much easier to work with and find that a lot of photographers can't take a decent and well composed photo in color...too much distraction.
5962. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 10:14:53 PM
I dunno, Judith, they look like palm trees to me, too.
Anyone know what the object is right outside the window?
I can almost feel the sunlight though that window. I love the different reflections---the lettering on the window refelcted onto the floor legibly, the mirror in front of the chair that throws back the light, the glass on the cabinet. All of the other light in the room is cool, though. Only the sunlight has temperature and it makes the picture warm as if it were in color.
5963. betty - 4/7/2002 10:15:58 PM
i thought this photo was from Lancaster County PA, there ain't no palm trees in Lancaster county.
5964. Rivendell - 4/7/2002 10:16:01 PM
Betty,
To which statement of mine do you refer?
5965. betty - 4/7/2002 10:17:15 PM
sorry Riv, it was Diva's comment not your.
5966. judithathome - 4/7/2002 10:20:19 PM
If you think back to B&W glamour photos of the 1930s-40s movie stars, try to imagine them in color and they loose their mystery and depth...the tones of Jean Harlow's face mightn't have leant themsleves so lushly to a sallow pale yellow satin dress but in B&W, the dress becomes shimmery white and her alabaster skin looks like fresh cream...
5967. Rivendell - 4/7/2002 10:20:29 PM
Diva,
A lot depends on the script, audience expectations and the limits of the available equipment.
Inspiration can come from anywhere. The hard part is knowing where to look. And sometimes being lucky.
5968. theDiva - 4/7/2002 10:21:34 PM
Guess it depends on who's teaching. When I was in school, we started in b/w...the reasoning was that you learned proper composition, how to expose the image correctly, etc. without the distraction of color.
5969. theDiva - 4/7/2002 10:23:03 PM
Betty
you've reinforced what I said.
5970. judithathome - 4/7/2002 10:25:03 PM
you've reinforced what I said.
How? I thought you said color was more forgiving?
5971. theDiva - 4/7/2002 10:25:19 PM
where in hell do youse see palm trees? What y'all been smokin'?
5972. judithathome - 4/7/2002 10:26:10 PM
Through the window, waaaay across the street....
5973. theDiva - 4/7/2002 10:29:52 PM
I said:
"Color covers a multitude of sins. The measure of a photographer can be taken in the use of b/w."
Betty said:
"a lot of photographers can't take a decent and well composed photo in color...too much distraction."
Same thing. Color covers the sins of bad composition.
5974. theDiva - 4/7/2002 10:33:38 PM
later, taters, there's some portobello porkchops with my name on 'em.....
5975. Rivendell - 4/7/2002 10:34:24 PM
Color is more forgiving. The key is who is looking at the photograph. To the average person, if the color is interesting or eye catching enough then any other failings can be overlooked. Whereas to the trained observer the photograph may appear poorly composed.
The same thing happens in lighting design. Intelligent lighting fixtures and superduper control boards can hide a pedestrian artist to the average playgoer, even though other lighting designers know the design is boring.
5976. judithathome - 4/7/2002 10:35:26 PM
Well, I disagree...sorry.
5977. judithathome - 4/7/2002 10:36:20 PM
I meant about color being forgiving....
5979. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 10:38:47 PM
Palm Trees: Above the curtain rod, but below the 'RB' and the last 'R' in "barber".
5980. Rivendell - 4/7/2002 10:42:05 PM
Ms. No,
All I can see there is the Christmas wreath next to the coca-cola style Santa with the bag of toys by his feet.
5981. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 10:45:12 PM
Cool! I'm not totally out of my mind! I couldn't get that image out of my head ---- that there was a Santa and a wreath, but I couldn't make the clear image resolve and it didn't seem to make sense.
Oh, those tiny black spots just to the right of the Santa-head/wreath and just below the final R in barber, those are the tops of the palm trees that Judith and I see.
5982. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 10:47:18 PM
and now I've found Elvis in there too.
5983. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 10:49:42 PM
If you look at the back of the chair in the right side of the picture, then look to the right top corner of it where the beam of sunlight makes a straight line diagonally to the edge of the frame, you'll see that the first third (the left hand third, closest to the chair) is taken up by the shadowy image of the young Elvis' head.
5984. Rivendell - 4/7/2002 10:50:41 PM
All I want to know is if you have extra and do you share?
5985. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 10:53:16 PM
Always!
5986. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 10:53:38 PM
okay, Elvis is a stretch, but I really do see palm trees.
5987. Rivendell - 4/7/2002 11:02:05 PM
But, but...
Didn't Diva say both photos came from the same series? And didn't she say the series of photos was taken in Lancaster, PA?
Or did I dream that the same time as your Elvis sighting?
5988. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 11:03:50 PM
No, you didn't dream it. It's Lancaster PA so they very likely are not palm trees, but I can't figure out what else they might be so it's palm trees to me.
5989. Rivendell - 4/7/2002 11:06:29 PM
I'd pay money for honest rationalizations like that from my students rather than the strained excuses some of them offer.
5990. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 11:12:32 PM
How old are your students? I think I was nearly 30 before I decided it was okay to have opinions for arbitrary reasons and not be defensive about it.
I'm generally a tediously earnest person, but I'm relaxing somewhat. It's less important to me now to have outside validation and I have less to prove.
5991. Rivendell - 4/7/2002 11:21:42 PM
Ms. No,
Your implied intuition is on target. Most of the time the students to which I referred are 20something traditional age ones.
And now that you mention it the older (non-traditional) students generally do not suffer from strained rationalizingitis.
5992. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 11:37:29 PM
It's just part of getting older----you have less need to justify yourself. It isn't only internal, either. Kids are always being asked "What are you doing? Are you supposed to be hanging around there? Do your parents know about this?"
5993. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 11:38:25 PM
Of course, I still have rather extreme cop paranoia.
5994. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 11:38:43 PM
You know what I'm doing now, yes?
5995. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 11:39:01 PM
I'm
5996. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 11:39:11 PM
racing
5997. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 11:39:21 PM
for
5998. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 11:39:32 PM
the
5999. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 11:39:41 PM
millennial!
6000. Ms. No - 4/7/2002 11:39:53 PM
SNAG!!!
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