ABA on Pickering: "Well Qualified"
concerned on Kennedy, Biden & Leahy: "Not worth shit and proving it every day."
30076. Wombat - 3/14/2002 4:39:28 PM
Concerned:
Please elucidate.
30077. concerned - 3/14/2002 4:42:24 PM
Chappaquiddick, public drunkenness, plagiarism.
'Course, by Lefties, those would be considered positive attributes.
30078. concerned - 3/14/2002 5:02:41 PM
Plus, I understand Boozehound Kennedy has named a pet dog 'Splash' in honor of Mary Jo Kopechne.
What a caring individual.
30079. wonkers2 - 3/14/2002 5:55:23 PM
30080. jexster - 3/14/2002 6:26:30 PM
Oh Canada! Oh Trade War!
J. Chretien (another world leader whose name was unknown to Bush until recently) is visiting King BubbleHead trying to convince the idiot usurper not to impose lumber tariffs.
Fat chance. If steel deserves protection for no real reason, surely lumber does for subsidies.
Stay tuned for more "Ttales from the Krony Kapitalis Krypt"!
30081. jexster - 3/14/2002 6:27:22 PM
Why Pickering?
Who cares!
Countdown to White Robed Martyrdom.
30082. jexster - 3/14/2002 6:30:12 PM
Royal Courtier and hanger on, the Prez of Stratfor predicts another failed Zinni mission.
World leader my ass.
30083. jexster - 3/14/2002 6:38:59 PM
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush (news - web sites) faced his first defeat on a judicial nomination on Thursday as Senate Democrats prepared to send him a message to offer moderates as judges for the federal courts (or get his monkey ass handed to him again!).
30084. jexster - 3/14/2002 6:40:15 PM
Its official...
Pickering Pickled.
30085. concerned - 3/14/2002 6:42:05 PM
Lefties doing what they do best - railroading qualified candidates. They should be ashamed of themselves.
30086. concerned - 3/14/2002 6:42:38 PM
Recess appointment time for Pickering? Heh...heh...heh...
30087. jexster - 3/14/2002 6:49:11 PM
30088. concerned - 3/14/2002 6:50:19 PM
The 'Rats have just shown us all that they never meant a word of anything they ever had to say about 'most qualified candidates' for anything.
Here GWB gave them a supremely qualified appellate court nominee who was also a bona fide civil rights pioneer and the 'Rat Senate Judiciary Panel Members unanimously spit in the face of America because, in their hate and hypocrisy, they wouldn't permit a full Senate vote.
As Bush put it:"By failing to allow full Senate votes on judicial nominees, a few senators are standing in the way of justice."
30089. jexster - 3/14/2002 6:55:34 PM
He also said something about Democracy.
Payback time!
30090. jexster - 3/14/2002 6:56:26 PM
No recess appointment....loyalty, I thought that was a GWB strong suit....
So did Ken Lay.
30091. concerned - 3/14/2002 7:00:20 PM
Ken Lay got exactly what he was owed from the Bush Administration.....nothing.
30092. jexster - 3/14/2002 7:01:24 PM
You haven't paid a PG&E bill lately.
30093. jexster - 3/14/2002 7:03:29 PM
The Democratic-controlled Senate Judiciary Committee voted along party lines Thursday to kill the nomination of Judge Charles Pickering to the appeals court, handing President Bush a stinging defeat in a racially-charged confirmation battle.
In a series of roll calls, the panel also snubbed Bush's request to allow a vote in the full Senate on Pickering, a 64-year-old Mississippian with more than a decade on the bench.
Pickering does not have "the temperament, the moderation or the commitment to core constitutional ... protections that is required for a life tenure position" on the appeals court," said Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, one of an unbroken string of committee Democrats to argue against confirmation.
That was TED Kennedy - "One of our greatest Americans (GWB)"
30094. jexster - 3/14/2002 7:04:08 PM
Send some moderates MonkeyMan or we'll send you your ass
30095. judithathome - 3/14/2002 7:04:53 PM
From Wonkers link upthread:
The Bush administration ideologues who are trying to impose Pickering on the country know they have neither a mandate from the public nor an appetite in Congress for repealing the social progress of the past 50 years. But they know they can do it through the federal courts if they can get enough like-minded judges and, eventually, Supreme Court justices, in office.
30096. concerned - 3/14/2002 7:05:29 PM
Chappaquiddick Booze Boy doesn't have the moral or professional stature to offer a serious comment on Pickering.
30097. concerned - 3/14/2002 7:06:20 PM
30095:
You should be ashamed for supporting the suppression of a full Senate vote on Pickering.
30098. judithathome - 3/14/2002 7:09:03 PM
But evidently he did it because he CAN, concerned.
30099. concerned - 3/14/2002 7:09:52 PM
The old 'might makes right' argument. How typical from the Left.
30100. concerned - 3/14/2002 7:10:54 PM
The 'Rats have added one more item to their list of shame by denying the Senate its role of advise and consent today.
30101. jexster - 3/14/2002 7:12:22 PM
And the president, awarding Kennedy the Texan's ultimate accolade, said, "Mr. Senator, you are not only a good senator. You are a good man."
30102. jexster - 3/14/2002 7:14:20 PM
The old 'might makes right' argument...
Sauce for the goose, sauce for the chimp
30103. jexster - 3/14/2002 7:15:01 PM
on second thought, keep the sauce away from GWB, he is our WarLord and Savior!
30104. jexster - 3/14/2002 7:35:53 PM
Bush - Government from a Bunker
RALPH NEAS on X-fire!
30105. Jexster - 3/14/2002 9:34:31 PM
First But Not the Last
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush (news - web sites) sustained his first defeat on a judicial nomination on Thursday when the Senate Judiciary Committee (news - web sites), split along party lines, rejected his bid to elevate a conservative Mississippi judge to a federal appeals court.
Photos
Reuters Photo
On three successive 10-9 votes, the Democratic-led panel refused to send to the full Senate for consideration the nomination of Charles Pickering, contending he could not be trusted on civil rights and has repeatedly put his own views above the law.
Sounds like he would make an excellent Supreme Court Justice!
30106. jexster - 3/15/2002 2:16:45 AM
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Lawmakers from both parties blistered the Bush administration on Thursday for "a severe attitude problem" in its dealings with Congress, threatening to withhold requested funds because of Homeland Security chief Tom Ridge's refusal to testify on Capitol Hill.
30107. jexster - 3/15/2002 2:22:10 AM
71 in Poli Sci
The president is requesting $38 billion for homeland security in fiscal year 2003, yet the director of homeland security will not appear before us," said Oklahoma Republican Rep. Ernest Istook, who heads the Appropriations subcommittee that controls the White House budget.
"I hope that the lack of necessary information does not compel us to withhold funds for the priorities established by the president," he added. Obey was even more direct, warning: "No information, no money."
No tikee no laundry you arrogant moronic asswipe!
Any more Gorby quotes there Cyg?
30108. jexster - 3/15/2002 2:29:33 AM
"I sense you and other Cabinet members feel you could get about the people's business better if it wasn't for the small-minded and inconsequential rabble on Capitol Hill that you have to deal with," Obey told Daniels.
In response, Daniels said that while he now hoped to mend fences with Congress on the earmarking question and it might be time "to let this subject go," lawmakers also would have to accept that times have changed since the Sept. 11 attacks
30109. jexster - 3/15/2002 2:32:02 AM
Oh I guess we lost Article 1 of the Constitution on that 9/11 Trifecta bet or did we lose it when the Supreme Court told us our votes didn't count for even a little Bush Shit!
30110. jexster - 3/15/2002 2:35:03 AM
30111. Property of Jesus - 3/15/2002 8:06:56 AM
Virginia-born and bred Tipper Gore wants to be the next senator from Tennessee.
Heavy.
30112. Property of Jesus - 3/15/2002 8:09:35 AM
Another case of Hillary-envy?
30113. judithathome - 3/15/2002 8:58:23 AM
Naw....Doleitis.
30114. Property of Jesus - 3/15/2002 9:18:36 AM
I wouldn't compare Eliz Dole to Tipper Gore. Mrs. Dole is an attorney, been a Cabinet Official in the Reagan White House and headed the Red Cross, before it became politically correct.
Tipper's claim to fame is that she is the wife of the father of the internet, brags that him being good in bed, has problem kids, takes lots of interesting photographs and pops downers to deal with her rx depression.
And, of course, hates Hillary Clinton, for all the right reasons.
30115. judithathome - 3/15/2002 9:23:14 AM
Who cares why Tipper Gore wants to be Senator? Only people like you who will do nothing to help but love to denigrate those who try to make a difference.
30116. wonkers2 - 3/15/2002 9:26:10 AM
30117. Property of Jesus - 3/15/2002 9:29:17 AM
30118. judithathome - 3/15/2002 9:45:13 AM
Wonkers, thanks for that link...I e-mailed a copy of that article to my husband who is the only Democrat in his office. He's asked for help! ;-)
30119. wonkers2 - 3/15/2002 9:46:10 AM
Thanks for the link to a great quote by Robert Kuttner! I'm surprised you are such a fan. John Podorhetz is a chip off the old asshole, Norman.
30120. jexster - 3/15/2002 11:11:04 AM
Mitchell E. Daniels Jr., the White House budget director, was wandering the halls of the Rayburn House Office Building yesterday morning, on his way to an appearance before grim-faced members of the House Appropriations Committee, when he felt moved to quote Winston Churchill.
"You can draw a crowd to a speech, but you sell more tickets to a public hanging," he joked.
No noose was waiting for Daniels, but House members with well-thumbed copies of the Constitution were
The Constitution? What's that?
30121. jexster - 3/15/2002 11:12:13 AM
30122. jexster - 3/15/2002 11:13:46 AM
Of course we all know that "father of the internet" was a load of crap from an RNC press release, the beginning of the end of democracy in the US
30123. jexster - 3/15/2002 11:30:43 AM
ASHINGTON, March 14 ? Senator Tom Daschle, the majority leader, today renewed Congressional demands for testimony by Tom Ridge, director of homeland security, and House Republicans joined him in dismissing President Bush's argument that Mr. Ridge, as a presidential adviser, need not appear.
Mr. Daschle disputed Mr. Bush's assertion at a news conference on Wednesday that Mr. Ridge could not be compelled to appear.
"Mr. Ridge has far more than an advisory job," the senator said. "His job is to administer the entire homeland security operation."
At a House appropriations subcommittee hearing, Representative Ernest Istook, Republican of Oklahoma, listed Mr. Ridge's executive functions, including protecting transportation and food supplies and coordinating border security and responses to terrorist threats. Those functions required accountability to Congress, Mr. Istook said, and "to deny the testimony of the director of homeland security is to deny the Congress its constitutional role."
Dasshole - Traitor
Doesn't that little 'rat man know the penalty for lese majeste in this country?
30124. jexster - 3/15/2002 11:33:14 AM
30125. jexster - 3/15/2002 11:40:35 AM
"War without end is likely to have ? indeed is already having ? profound consequences for the American constitutional system. It tends to produce the very thing that the framers of the Constitution most feared: concentrated, unaccountable political power."
Taking Our Liberties
30126. jexster - 3/15/2002 11:46:34 AM
: The Times recently had an eye-opening article confirming something I had been hearing myself, that oil companies are not behind the push for drilling there ? indeed, they are notably unexcited by the prospect. Studies by the U.S. Geological Survey suggest why: Arctic oil is so expensive to get at that it's barely worth extracting at current market prices. For energy companies it's the rest of the Bush energy plan, which would give them about $35 billion in tax breaks and subsidies, that really matters.
But then why are the Bush administration and its allies so vehement about ANWR? Pay no attention to rhetoric about national security; the Kerry-McCain proposal would save about three times as much oil per year as ANWR would deliver even in its brief period of peak production.
The real reason conservatives want to drill in ANWR is the same reason they want to keep snowmobiles roaring through Yellowstone: sheer symbolism. Forcing rangers to wear respirators won't make much difference to snowmobile sales ? but it makes the tree-huggers furious, and that's what's appealing about it. The same is true about Arctic drilling; as one very moderate environmentalist told me, the reason the Bush administration pursues high-profile anti-environmental policies is not that they please special interests but that they are "red meat for the right." (The real special-interest payoffs come via less showy policies, like the way the administration is undermining enforcement of the Clean Air Act.)
ANWR: Krugman Steals Jexster's Material Again
30127. concerned - 3/15/2002 11:53:54 AM
Re. 30123 -
I think Daschole went well beyond the bounds of reality when he accused Ridge of being responsible for the INS recently issuing student visas for two of the 9/11 terrorists.
30128. jexster - 3/15/2002 11:58:03 AM
He IS the Royal Homeland security chief...
Where DOES the buck stop in this Regency anyway?
30129. concerned - 3/15/2002 12:28:15 PM
I believe Ashcroft has ordered an investigation into the matter, if that's what you're asking.
30130. concerned - 3/15/2002 12:29:00 PM
But details such as that that are too subtle for the likes of Daschole.
30131. jexster - 3/15/2002 12:36:32 PM
Bush Loves Poindexter BECAUSE He Lied to Congress
On 2-25-02, Helen Thomas asked Ari about Poindexter.
"Q Ari, why would this administration choose a man for couterterrorism who is so associated with the dark side of the Iran Contra scandal, Admiral Poindexter? ...
ARI: Let me just say about Admiral Poindexter, Admiral Poindexter is somebody who this administration thinks is an outstanding American and an outstanding citizen who has done a very good job in what he has done for our country, serving in the military.
Q How can you say that, when he told Colonel North to lie?
ARI: Helen, I think your views on Iran Contra are well-known, but the President does believe that Admiral Poindexter served --
Q It isn't my view, this is the prosecutor for the United States.
ARI: I understand. The President thinks that Admiral Poinndexter has served our nation very well.
Q Really?
MR. FLEISCHER: That's the President's thoughts.
Q Do you know his record?
MR. FLEISCHER: I'm sure you will inform me.
Q I don't have to, all you have to do is look it up." - Source - The White Palace Press Office
30132. jexster - 3/15/2002 12:38:14 PM
Details such as that are EXACTLY what Dasshole and Congress and the people want to hear...
The contempt for Congress and the Constitution shown by Bush/Cheney...
we've not seen the likes of this since Nixon's Imperial Presidency
The arrogance of power....
30133. jexster - 3/15/2002 12:41:13 PM
"Has anyone else following the aftermath of Sept. 11 been struck by the similarity to George Orwell's '1984' - in which a never-ending, faraway war against ever-changing enemies serves as a rationale for political and social repression? In the past five months numerous Americans, and not a few Europeans, have not dared speak their minds, and many more have not dared to think things through to a point at which the urge to speak one's mind becomes unbearable. There was no genuine war after Sept. 11 - there could not have been. And no country, not even one as powerful as the US after it lost the Soviet Union as its only rival, can hijack such an important concept as war without in the long run bringing disaster upon itself. Orwell, that great beacon of political common sense in the 20th century, educated at least two generations of reasonable observers of political reality in the danger of misusing words in this way."
War Without End. Amen. [Minneapolis Star Trib]
30134. concerned - 3/15/2002 12:46:39 PM
Details such as that are EXACTLY what Dasshole and Congress and the people want to hear...
Oh, stop prevaricating, jexster. This information is on the wire services all over the internet. Even an ignorant monkey such as Daschole doesn't need a congressional hearing to find the nose on his face. He just wants to shower us with his contempt for the intelligence of Americans by preening from his partisan soapbox.
30135. concerned - 3/15/2002 12:48:37 PM
After all, who but diehard 'Rat partisans give a shit when Daschole parades his self professed ignorance and stupidity?
30136. jexster - 3/15/2002 12:49:43 PM
We'd like to know how the King fucked this one up TD...and not only Dasshole but it seems quite a few House Republicans too!
The King can do no wrong. Lese majeste as I said.
30137. jexster - 3/15/2002 12:51:32 PM
And other shit the King of Krony Kapital is trying to pull amidst the fog of war without end
According to Hugh Kaufman, an in-house watchdog and longtime EPA critic, Christie Whitman is letting her family's financial ties to Citigroup influence EPA decisions.
"Kaufman said Whitman falsely assured New Yorkers that the air around the World Trade Center was safe in the days after the structures were leveled by the Sept. 11 attacks. That, he said, saved Travelers Insurance -- owned by Citigroup -- millions of dollars. And he said Whitman tried to dissolve the EPA national ombudsman's office, wheree he works, so it wouldn't interfere with a court settlement with Citigroup about Shattuck."
Whitman's husband worked for Citigroup and still owns stock in the company. The probe is being conducted by the Justice Department, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Enron.
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1002,53%7E454506,00.html>Denver Post
30138. jexster - 3/15/2002 12:53:44 PM
Martha Hahn, a 21-year veteran of the Bureau of Land Management, was considered a moderate who strived for balance between conservation and private interests. But Hahn was not nearly rightwing enough for Gail Norton, Bush, or Sen. Larry Craig, who has muscled into the BLM and is now trying to run it like his own personal pork barrel, dispensing choice slabs of Idaho's natural resource bacon to his buddies in the mining, ranching, and off-road vehicle industries.
Now Hahn has been forced out of the BLM - USA Today
30139. concerned - 3/15/2002 12:56:04 PM
Re. 30136 -
Well, you'll never reveal the truth by asking the wrong questions, which always somehow seem to reveal your very personal animus toward the Bush administration, jexster.
30140. jexster - 3/15/2002 1:00:24 PM
Its the right to ask questions that's in issue here.
Whether you or our King LIKE the questions is wholly immaterial.
and its clear that a pattern is developing from Chenron to Ridge if the Bushies don't like the questions we don't get any answers.
To paraphrase "Its something you have to get used to since 9-1-1"
What do you expect from an Adminstration whose very conception was anti-democratic?
30141. concerned - 3/15/2002 1:05:04 PM
jexster -
You certainly have the right to ask any question which enters your mind, and from my viewpoint, the more idiotic it is, the more I encourage you to sound off.
30142. concerned - 3/15/2002 1:07:21 PM
The Clowntoon administration set the all time standard for unreponsiveness to questions by others, and the broadcast media was more than happy to oblige by slinking away from any difficult ones like curs.
30143. PelleNilsson - 3/15/2002 1:08:53 PM
jexster has an animus toward the Bush administration?
What an acute observation. You're sharp, concerned.
30144. concerned - 3/15/2002 1:16:40 PM
Re. 30143 -
Sometimes, the obvious needs to be reiterated. Particularly when engaging those from the sinister side of the political spectrum.
30145. wonkers2 - 3/15/2002 1:24:46 PM
Concerned, You are in a time warp. The Clinton administration is over. That's too bad because under Clinton-Gore we were at peace with the world, employment was full, the economy was growing, the budget was balanced, and we had plenty of entertainment on television. Luckily, we have to endure only a couple of more years of Bushdom.
30146. jexster - 3/15/2002 2:55:02 PM
Concerned misses his National Enquirer politics
30147. jexster - 3/15/2002 2:55:30 PM
J'accuse TD!
30148. jexster - 3/15/2002 6:32:29 PM
Deep Thoughts
(w/ apologies to Al Franken!)
"There's nothing more deep than recognizing Israel's right to exist. That's the most deep thought of all. ... I can't think of anything more deep than that right."—Washington, D.C., March 13, 2002
Isn't great that Jake Weisberg has started up "Bushims" again?
Why you'd have sworn His Imbecility had that brain transplant - NOT
30149. ronski - 3/15/2002 6:44:35 PM
At peace with the world?
Yeah, I, too, miss the days of Clinton when there were absolutely no acts of terrorism directed against the U.S. or U.S. interests or citizens overseas, not one. I miss how no one even thought of attacking the World Trade Center in any way, shape or form until after Bush was inaugurated.
I miss the complete absence of hostilities in the Balkans, too.
30150. ronski - 3/15/2002 6:48:34 PM
(I'm feeling cranky again. I promised myself I wouldn't post when I get this way, which I've gotten a lot, lately. So I'll say goodbye.)
30151. jexster - 3/15/2002 6:51:10 PM
That's all right Ronsk....I am in a Deep Lenten mode myself..try it!
30152. jexster - 3/15/2002 6:54:08 PM
That's all right Ronsk....I am in a Deep Lenten mode myself..try it!
30153. jexster - 3/15/2002 6:55:36 PM
don't fight the deepness!
30154. jexster - 3/15/2002 9:25:51 PM
f you're not careful, you can squander an entire journalistic career swatting flies from the Wall Street Journal editorial page. But sometimes resistance to temptation is futile.
This article was an attack on Democrats for opposing President Bush's nomination of Charles W. Pickering for a seat on the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals. (The Senate Judiciary Committee killed the nomination later that day, on a party-line vote.)
The author was Virginia Thomas, wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, whose own famous confirmation ordeal has made him a martyr-saint of American conservatism. Thomas, as you will recall (or if not, his wife will help you), was pummeled so brutally by vicious gangs of Democrats and liberals—who accused him of being a right-wing ideologue with a closed mind about abortion rights, among other vicious lies—that he now lies comatose in the Supreme Court, able only to issue reliably right-wing opinions and vote against abortion rights.
30155. jexster - 3/15/2002 9:26:54 PM
Deep Thoughts of CT's Bitch - Kinsley
30156. jexster - 3/15/2002 11:12:20 PM
One of Kinsley's better efforts...
"Looking around the real world, it is especially hard to see this martyrdom that Clarence Thomas supposedly has suffered for the sin of holding views that the all-powerful hard left wants to suppress. He had a rough confirmation battle, but now he is a justice of the Supreme Court with a lifetime appointment, even though he clearly lied under oath—or at the very least willfully deceived—in claiming he had never discussed Roe v. Wade and had no opinion about it. He probably lied about more notorious matters, too. If he's in pain, it must only hurt when he laughs.
30157. jexster - 3/15/2002 11:14:31 PM
"I wouldn't compare Eliz Dole to Tipper Gore."
Neither would I.
Tipper would never crawl under Jesse Helms' wheel chair to kiss his filthy fat ass.
30158. Property of Jesus - 3/15/2002 11:31:59 PM
Thanks for the invite, Jex. My deep thoughts are mostly in 125-year-old Atlantic Online these days---where I am a star.
Being an intellectual et al, that's my home.
Plus, I get to start my own innovative threads like the fabulous Pretty Peggy-O (Noohan) one.
30159. jexster - 3/15/2002 11:43:22 PM
Really?
I didn't know that Atlantic had a site. Have to check it out.
Glad to hear you aren't spending time at FreeperLand
30160. Property of Jesus - 3/15/2002 11:47:26 PM
No, please stay here. Mote needs you, Jex.
30161. arkymalarky - 3/15/2002 11:58:47 PM
Hahahaha. I think Jex should check out your threads, PJ, in the interest of poetic justice.
30162. wonkers2 - 3/16/2002 10:00:21 AM
Too good for the Bush administration??
30163. Property of Jesus - 3/16/2002 10:09:42 AM
The steel dumping from other countries' state-owned industries had to stop, wonkers, so principles were forsaken.
30% isn't that much too pay to get them to wake up.
But, now this is interesting.
Clinton-asexual partner Eleanor Clift says that because of Pickering the GOP has won the PR battle over Congress and the picking of federal judges/Supreme court nominees.
Who would have thunk it?
30164. Property of Jesus - 3/16/2002 10:10:18 AM
The steel dumping from other countries' state-owned industries had to stop, wonkers, so principles were forsaken.
30% isn't that much too pay to get them to wake up.
But, now this is interesting.
Clinton-asexual partner Eleanor Clift says that because of Pickering the GOP has won the PR battle over Congress and the picking of federal judges/Supreme court nominees.
Who would have thunk it?
30165. wonkers2 - 3/16/2002 10:25:12 AM
Pretty good article. I missed the part about the GOP winning anything. Maybe I read it too fast.
30166. jexster - 3/16/2002 10:27:56 AM
WASHINGTON, March 15 — The partisan battle over judicial nominations intensified today as Senator Trent Lott, the minority leader, struck out at the Senate Judiciary Committee and moved to block an aide to Senator Tom Daschle, the majority leader, from filling a spot on the Federal Communications Commission.
Lott Throws a Hissy Fit
30167. jexster - 3/16/2002 10:33:44 AM
You are absolutley correct Wonk. There is NOTHING in the article even remotely suggesting a GOP victory.
Rosie got that from the headline (FYI headline writers write headlines)
Rosie is fighting the deepnesss.
Don't fight the deepness Rose. Read. It won't hurt you.
Repeat after me...
I am a flower in the garden of life
I will let my roots grow in the garden's warm soil
I will not fight the deepness.
30168. Cellar Door - 3/16/2002 10:50:33 AM
Rosie's having a whole mess of trouble over in the Atlantic Monthly forum, whose posters won't put up with his nonsense -- particularly his Peggy Noonan fixation.
30169. jexster - 3/16/2002 11:08:11 AM
I thought Rosie was widely hailed as a neocon intellectual...a veritable Andrew Sullivan in drag!
30170. jexster - 3/16/2002 11:08:30 AM
I thought Rosie was widely hailed as a neocon intellectual...a veritable Andrew Sullivan in drag!
30171. jexster - 3/16/2002 11:11:38 AM
As Bush deficits mount...
'We're Just Getting Clobbered': States' Budget Squeeze Takes Toll on Programs and People (Post, March 16, 2002)
Bush Pushes for Defense Funds: At Ft. Bragg, President Urges Quick Action on Pentagon Budget (By Mike Allen, Page A05)
War Without End. Amen.
30172. jexster - 3/16/2002 11:14:24 AM
WASHINGTON -- Cutting short a trip to California, Tipper Gore was scheduled to huddle with friends and family this weekend to discuss whether to run for the U.S. Senate from Tennessee, according to several sources who have spoken with her.
"Clearly, there are enough people making a convincing argument that she doesn't want to dismiss it out of hand," a Gore family intimate said Friday. "She wants the weekend. She knows she's got to move quickly."
Ron Brownstein
30173. jexster - 3/16/2002 11:18:54 AM
from Charlie Cook's "Off to the Races" written BEFORE the Tipper story...
Tennessee, like much of the rest of the South, tilts somewhat toward the GOP, but all is not well in the state for the party. Indeed, Republicans will have an uphill challenge this year in their efforts to hold onto the governorship, amid state financial problems that are much worse than in most states.
If the Senate race were simply a contest between two lawmakers, one from each party, it would be a pretty fair fight that would come down to the relative strengths and weaknesses of each candidate.
30174. jexster - 3/16/2002 12:16:43 PM
WASHINGTON, March 15 — Treasury Secretary Paul H. O'Neill told a foreign policy group this week that he disagreed with the Bush administration's decision earlier this month to impose tariffs on imported steel and that the move would cost more jobs in the United States than it would save, people who heard him speak said today.
Dissension in Royal Court Mounting
30175. Property of Jesus - 3/16/2002 4:17:22 PM
It is too laugh.
Look at all those Democrat politicians in Chicago trying to get themselves into pictures with President Bush for St. Pat's Day Parade.
They're practically kissing his ring.
Be bop a lula...
30176. jexster - 3/16/2002 6:37:33 PM
GOP gubernatorial candidate Bill Simon Jr. has promised he will "change the topic" if asked about controversial issues like abortion in the coming campaign, but pro-choice activists defiantly signaled this week that he won't have an easy time of it.
"We're not going to let him," said Kate Michelman, the nation's leading abortion rights activist who heads NARAL
Be bop a lula...
[now she thinks she's Little Richard - St Elizabeth's Mental Hospital 2700 Martin Luther King Jr Ave Washington,
District of Columbia 20032. Telephone 202-562-4000}
30177. robertjayb - 3/16/2002 6:48:06 PM
Gene Vincent
30178. jexster - 3/16/2002 8:02:10 PM
I defer to age.
The older the fart, the deeper the thought.
30179. jexster - 3/16/2002 8:03:41 PM
An Anti-Alec Baldwin Strategy for Conservatives
Say what you will about Alec Baldwin -- "obnoxious" frequently comes to mind -- when it comes to politics he certainly doesn't hold anything back.
"I know that's a harsh thing to say, perhaps, but I believe that what happened in 2000 did as much damage to the pillars of democracy as terrorists did to the pillars of commerce in New York City," Baldwin told students at Florida A&M University recently, referring to the election recount fiasco.
Then -- really playing with fire -- he added: "When Donald Rumsfeld and the Pentagon spokespeople say to you, 'Well, this is going to be a long war, we're going to be in Afghanistan for the long haul,' what that euphemism means is that the moratorium on criticizing the government must be extended longer and longer and longer -- ideally, beyond the 2002 election."
30180. joezan - 3/16/2002 8:41:29 PM
Say what you will about Alec Baldwin -- "obnoxious" frequently comes to mind -- when it comes to politics he certainly doesn't hold anything back.
I really pity people who don't know the difference between not holding anything back, and not knowing when, why, or how to shut the fuck up.
Deep thoughts indeed.
30181. robertjayb - 3/16/2002 9:35:59 PM
dubya's Enron prequel: The Harken deal...
30182. jexster - 3/16/2002 9:36:23 PM
I agree. The idea that Bush wants war without end (amen!) is hardly deep.
Its obvious.
As for his comment about the December 2000 Terrorists....again more obvious than deep.
30183. jexster - 3/16/2002 9:38:33 PM
OOO boy..ABC News is showing that picture of Sadaam firing his shotgun overlaying narrative about the Saudis telling Cheney to lay off the heart medications...they're messing with his mind.
30184. Property of Jesus - 3/16/2002 9:42:33 PM
Tom Davis wrote most of it with Gene Vincent, who sang BE BOP A LULA, robert.
Jexster probably doesn't even know the song. I learned how to play it on the piano from an old John Lennon covers' album.
Sang it to all my kids when they were tiny.
Jexster know little about music. His favorite tune is: "Cisco Kid/was a friend of mine..."
30185. jexster - 3/16/2002 10:12:23 PM
now THAT's Deep!
30186. wonkers2 - 3/16/2002 11:29:32 PM
War without end or at least until the election.
30187. concerned - 3/17/2002 12:42:10 AM
Re. 30145 -
You brought him up, Wonkers. Your point, if any?
30188. concerned - 3/17/2002 12:45:47 AM
Ooops, I take that back, rereading what I posted yester. However, Wonkers, please explain the reasoning behind your inference that only Democrats are permitted to compare and contrast to prior administrations' behaviors.
Gotcha.
30189. concerned - 3/17/2002 12:47:35 AM
Re. 30185,6 -
One not familiar with the forum might think you two are Muslims.
30190. concerned - 3/17/2002 12:56:25 AM
Three decoys in latest NMD missile test success, making 4 out of 6
The objections to NMD just keep fading away.....
30191. concerned - 3/17/2002 1:06:53 AM
It will never work.
It will upset the USSR.
Republicans are bad.
30192. concerned - 3/17/2002 1:09:28 AM
Feel free to substitute 'Russia' for the 'USSR' if you prefer.
30193. concerned - 3/17/2002 1:12:11 AM
Who wants to bet that NMD will not be critical to the US's defense at some point in the future?
30194. concerned - 3/17/2002 2:04:05 AM
Wonkers - avert your eyes - what follows are the three x42 quotes excerpted from Bartlett's Familiar Quotations, which is about nothing but (gasp!) living in the past:
"I...didn't inhale"
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky";
"it depends on what the meaning of the word `is' is."
Pretty fucking pathetic from somebody who was considered by some to amount to something at the podium.
30195. concerned - 3/17/2002 2:14:23 AM
Quibbling about the meaning of 'is' is about the furthest thing from a meaningful, let alone stirring quote that one could imagine. Yet, the fact that this is about the most notable thing that x42 has had to say in his entire career in politics highlights his limitations in a much more dramatic fashion than any quote of his could aspire to.
30196. jexster - 3/17/2002 4:05:51 AM
THE NATION
Ridge's Refusal to Testify Irks Lawmakers
Politics: Congress wants updates on homeland security. The White House has asserted Royal 'prerogative.'
"This is not minor," said Rep. Ernest J. Istook Jr. (R-Okla.). Istook, the chairman of the House panel that oversees funding for the White House, is usually a strong Bush backer, but homeland security policy "involves billions of taxpayer dollars. More importantly, it involves millions of lives."
30197. jexster - 3/17/2002 4:07:54 AM
TD..why That's the most deep thought of all. ... I can't think of anything more deep than that right
30198. Property of Jesus - 3/17/2002 6:37:25 AM
Roger's attorney was smart to tell his client not to lie to the FBI.
Roger Clinton to FBI: I Collected Cash for Bill
30199. judithathome - 3/17/2002 10:33:44 AM
According to the FBI's witness summary of his statements, Roger Clinton did not say what happened to cash intended for the president beyond the "couple of occasions" where he was warned it could not be accepted.
Oh horrors....
30200. jexster - 3/17/2002 10:41:24 AM
Little Tommy D standin tall on Face the Nation..."I hope we don't have to subpoena the Royal Magistrate for Homeland Defence"
30201. jexster - 3/17/2002 10:44:17 AM
But sometimes, especially when dealing with imbeciles, you can't spare the rod.
The rejection of Judge Charles W. Pickering Sr. sent a message>
width=300>
30202. jexster - 3/17/2002 10:46:38 AM
"The Senate has never before allowed a vote on a district or appellate court nominee when the Judiciary Committee has failed to report out the nominee. I won't start now. I respect the Judiciary Committee."
So fuck you King "My-way-or-the-highway" Bush
30203. Cellar Door - 3/17/2002 10:49:56 AM
30204. jexster - 3/17/2002 11:14:55 AM
Simon - the best candidate to "undo four years of liberalism, homosexuality and anti- family values in California at the hands of Governor Gray Davis,"
30205. jexster - 3/17/2002 11:35:12 AM
"A warm and popular figure throughout the Clinton era, Mrs Gore was exuberant on the campaign trail. She liked to play drums at rallies, told audiences that her husband was ?sexy? and showed no discomfort when he returned the compliment with asphyxiating French kisses.
Recently, her loyalty has even stretched to saying she likes the bushy beard her husband has grown while in the political wilderness."
Time s of London Tipsy for Tipper
30206. arkymalarky - 3/17/2002 1:55:57 PM
Roger Clinton has always been scum and Clinton's smart enough not to deal too closely with him.
Concerned,
Don't forget to add to your collection of quotes "I am not a crook."
Oh yeah, that was another president's lie.
Which one's worse, the one above or the three you quote?
30207. jexster - 3/17/2002 2:11:56 PM
Deep Thoughts
"I don't have anthrax"
The Train Ride
In a train carriage there was Bill Clinton, George Bush, Janet Reno and Bo Derek. After several minutes of the trip, the train passes through a dark tunnel and the unmistakable sound of a slap is heard.
When they leave the tunnel, Clinton has a big red slap mark on his cheek.
(1) Bo Derek thought - "That sleazeball Clinton wanted to touch me and by mistake, he must have put his hand on Janet Reno, who in turn must have
slapped his face."
(2) Janet Reno thought - "That dirty Bill Clinton laid his hands on Bo Derek and she smacked him."
(3) Bill Clinton thought - "George put his hand on Bo Derek and by mistake she slapped me."
(4) George Bush thought - "I hope there's another tunnel soon so I can smack Clinton again."
30208. jexster - 3/17/2002 2:42:51 PM
Subpoena the Clown
Washington -- As the director of homeland security for President Bush, Tom Ridge oversees one of government's fastest growing sectors at a time of intense interest in bolstering public safety. Not surprisingly, Congress has been clamoring to quiz him
30209. jexster - 3/17/2002 3:33:41 PM
Well I registered at Altantic Monthly but
1. Which threads are JT's
and
2. How do I fuck them up (can't figure out how to post)
30210. jexster - 3/17/2002 3:38:32 PM
The steel dumping from other countries' state-owned industries had to stop, wonkers, so principles were forsaken
Which would be fine and dandy if it were true.
Facts:
1. There was no finding of DUMPING.
2. Bush's order was not based on DUMPING.
3. DUMPING wrecked the steel and other industries in the 1980's, Raygun refused to take action.
Don't resist the deepness Rosie
30211. jexster - 3/17/2002 3:43:25 PM
Hundreds of Thousands Fucked by Your Cronies is No Fuckin Joke King Klown
"We just got a message from Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)," President Bush (news - web sites) joked at a dinner last weekend, according to other attendees. "The good news is that he's willing to have his nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons counted. The bad news is he wants Arthur Andersen to do it."
30212. jexster - 3/17/2002 3:44:06 PM
Neither is Saddam.
What a god damned embarrassment!
30213. robertjayb - 3/17/2002 7:25:44 PM
Tipper says no...
NASHVILLE, Tennessee (CNN) -- Tipper Gore, the wife of former Vice President Al Gore, said Sunday that after "serious consideration" she has decided not to run for a U.S. Senate seat in Tennessee.
"I have decided that it is not right for me, right now," she said in a statement.
Some Democratic officials in Tennessee were surprised late last week by the news that Mrs. Gore, who has never held political office, might run for the seat being vacated by retiring Republican Sen. Fred Thompson.
She canceled a weekend trip to California to return to Tennessee to discuss the possibility with family members and potential supporters.
30214. jexster - 3/17/2002 9:28:35 PM
"I have decided that it is not right for me, right now,"
All but admits that President Gore is going to make a re-election bid in 2004.
30215. joezan - 3/17/2002 9:31:50 PM
Neither is Saddam what?
30216. jexster - 3/17/2002 9:45:10 PM
JoeZ hat tieferen farts als tiefe Gedanken nie gehabt.
30217. jexster - 3/17/2002 9:52:46 PM
Saddam ist kein Witz aber Busch ein geistesschwaches ist.
30218. jexster - 3/17/2002 9:53:59 PM
Saddam ist kein Witz aber Busch ein geistesschwaches ist. Aber Saddam ist ein ausgezeichneter Jäger. Haben Sie daß ihn seine Schrottflinte gesehen schießt?
30219. jexster - 3/17/2002 9:55:36 PM
Farò niente in modo che non devo studiare per il mio test.
30220. Cellar Door - 3/17/2002 11:54:44 PM
What was that about Dubbya's popularity again?
30221. jexster - 3/18/2002 12:01:03 AM
Sein Gemüt ist schwächlich. Stimmen Sie Überein?
30222. concerned - 3/18/2002 2:33:36 AM
Re. 30206 -
I'd say the one you quoted equals just one of the three I quoted. My point is that Clowntoon never appears to have had anything more noteworthy than what I quoted to say.
30223. concerned - 3/18/2002 4:31:04 AM
Re. 30214 -
So Bore aspires to be the Adlai Stevenson of the new millennium, does he?
30224. joezan - 3/18/2002 7:41:19 AM
"I have decided that it is not right for me, right now,"
All but admits that President Gore is going to make a re-election bid in 2004.
So.
On the very same day his wife goes down to TN to find out whether she's got a snowball's chance in hell of winning his old Senate seat, Gore informs her it's a no-go, since he's gonna run for the presidency again?
No.
Fraid not.
Tennessee was and is Gore's Waterloo. And even Tennesseeans are smart enough to figure out that Tipper's got even less credentials than Hillary.
She got blown off.
Period.
Amen.
30225. betty - 3/18/2002 9:12:18 AM
joe,
are you trying to imply that Hillary is less qualified to be a senator than any of the others who are in her class? Mind you, i think she's fucking evil, but that right there makes her qualified, ignore her law degree and excessive involvement in her husband's administration if you want...Tipper on the other hand is a busy-body idiot who will always be remebered as the crazy, bored senator's wife who had nothing better to do than come down on rock stars, proof enough that we don't need her "ideas" in the Senate.
30226. jexster - 3/18/2002 9:33:29 AM
At least she isn't cognitively challenged!
President Bush said recently that the United States has a "fabulous" military. On other occasions, he has proclaimed himself proud of such a fabulous country, and of his fabulous cabinet. Texas and Alaska are both fabulous states. Edward M. Kennedy, Democrat of Massachusetts, is a fabulous senator.
Laura Bush is doing a fabulous job as first lady, and Mr. Bush's father is a fabulous man. Last fall, Mr. Bush attended a fabulous World Series, and last summer proclaimed baseball a fabulous sport.
A Fabulously Deep Thinker
30227. jexster - 3/18/2002 9:33:55 AM
fey
30228. jexster - 3/18/2002 9:36:30 AM
TD...
Did you know that Edward M. Kennedy, Democrat of Massachusetts, is a fabulous senator?
Watch your mouth or its a 10 minute trip to a military tribunal thence to death gurney for you.
30229. jexster - 3/18/2002 9:48:52 AM
Thomas D Standin Tall! Will Subpoena Ridge
30230. betty - 3/18/2002 10:01:04 AM
jex,
anyone who wastes money for senate hearings with Dee Snyder is cognitively impaired.
On the other hand, Tom Ridge is an evil, evil man...who is beign rewarded for trampling Civil Liberties in Philly in the summer of 2000. Subpoena him all you want...you won't get the truth. He's an opportunist and a liar, he'll eat his own children if he thinks it will turn him from bumpkin to president.
30231. jexster - 3/18/2002 10:08:09 AM
Is he an "evil" man or an "Evil" man?
30232. jexster - 3/18/2002 10:10:15 AM
JoeZ...
Tipper will Ihnen einen großen Kuß geben.
30233. betty - 3/18/2002 10:16:19 AM
jex,
I'm pretty sure he's just evil...but Philly's DA Lynn Abraham, now she's EeeeeVIL!
Ridge is mostly just an idiot (surprise!) who has been rewarded by the system for unethical activity, like our King...where as I'm pretty sure Lynn Abraham savors ever death penalty sentence, rejoicing in the loss of another young, poor, black man's life. I think she collects the bodies and offers then to Satan in return for more people to kill. they should send her to Afghanistan...there would be good, cheap results but i think the fear is that she would become bin Laden's next wife.
30234. jexster - 3/18/2002 10:16:56 AM
Ron Brownstein joins Jexster's Deep Thoughts Campaign
More Imagination Could Bring Energy Plan, Middle East Peace
30235. jexster - 3/18/2002 10:19:02 AM
Didn't know you were Phillistine...
Spent many fun times at Wharton...The Spectrum and elsewhere eating cheesesteaks
Am probably one of the five auslanders on the planet who like Philly
30236. Cellar Door - 3/18/2002 10:44:22 AM
30237. jexster - 3/18/2002 11:13:45 AM
What do golf and Florida elections have in common?
Low score wins.
30238. jexster - 3/18/2002 12:04:00 PM
30239. betty - 3/18/2002 4:15:42 PM
jex,
have you read Votescam? the problems in Florida aren't new.
30240. jexster - 3/18/2002 6:25:05 PM
No they aren't. That's why California passed an "every vote must count" initiative. Of course, FL had such but Scalia took care of that.
This one is for Cllr....
Chomsky to Speak at USF
30241. concerned - 3/18/2002 11:56:26 PM
The second Daschole joke I've heard (he's the original):
Joe was traveling through Mexico on vacation when, lo and behold, he lost his wallet and all identification. Cutting his trip short, he attempts to make his way home but is stopped by the Customs Agent at the border.
"May I see your identification, please?" asks the agent.
"I'm sorry, but I lost my wallet," replies Joe.
"Sure, buddy, I hear that every day. No ID, no crossing the border," says the agent.
"But I can prove that I'm an American!" exclaims Joe. "I have a picture of Ronald Reagan tattooed on one butt cheek and a picture of George W. Bush on the other."
"This I gotta see," replies the agent. With that Joe drops his pants and bends over in front of the agent.
"By golly, you're right!" exclaims the agent. "Go on home to South Dakota."
"Thanks," says Joe, "but how did you know I was from South Dakota?"
The agent replies, "I saw the picture of Tom Daschle in between."
30242. wonkers2 - 3/19/2002 8:15:37 AM
The Time for Campaign Finance Reform Has Come
30243. Cellar Door - 3/19/2002 10:03:44 AM
A lengthy and very revealing interview with David Brock
Rosie and connie aren't gonna like it (if they bother to read it at all, which I doubt) but everyone else should take a look at this very carefully. It contains a lot of information that I haven't seen anywhere else.
30244. Cellar Door - 3/19/2002 10:14:59 AM
Thanks jex!
There's no place like Noam.
30245. bubbaette - 3/19/2002 10:26:37 AM
And speaking of Ted Olsen, per today's newspaper, he's before the Supreme Court asserting "U.S. right to lie".
The government said yesterday U.S. officials have the right to lie to American citizens, telling the Supreme Court misleading statements sometimes are needed to protect foreign policy interests.
"It's easy to imagine an infinite number of situations where government might legitimately give our false information," said Solicitor General Theodore Olson.
I bet it IS easy to imagine, Ted.
30246. Julius Caesar - 3/19/2002 10:38:37 AM
Thank you David Brock for having the courage to write "Blinded by the Right."
The usual end to a penetrating and objective interview.
30247. ronski - 3/19/2002 11:20:52 AM
Even this Supreme Court is unlikely to let stand the provision that would forbid issue-oriented campaign ads sixty days before an election, should the Incumbency Protection Act of 2002 find its way to the president's desk and should he sign it.
It's one thing to draw a distinction between campaign contributions and free speech per se. It is another to forbid buying air time to express free speech as soon as the voters begin to focus on a coming election.
Not that I would expect The New York Times editorial board as presently constituted to understand that.
30248. glendajean - 3/19/2002 11:31:34 AM
Ha. I am mad at the New York Times, too. The paperboy didn't deliver one this morning.
30249. ronski - 3/19/2002 11:52:53 AM
And I didn't get mine yesterday, probably because of the snow on our hill.
The old gray lady is skating on very thin ice.
30250. Julius Caesar - 3/19/2002 11:58:37 AM
On Our Political Anne Heche
The first version of his tale appeared nine months earlier in the July Esquire under the headline "I Was A Right-Wing Hit Man." Promoting the article was a staged photo of Brock tied to a tree, one nipple seductively exposed. The editors didn’t say whether he was waiting to be shot, or to nurse.
30251. Julius Caesar - 3/19/2002 12:01:59 PM
In another gutter attack, the NY Times poison pen, Frank Rich, accused Brock of hating the entire female sex -- not so subtly outing him as a homosexual in the process.
Ah, but how Frank Rich has learned of the value of David Brock.
30252. ronski - 3/19/2002 12:33:47 PM
Does all this prove that no one is born liberal, that people choose to be liberal?
30253. Julius Caesar - 3/19/2002 12:36:36 PM
Sooner or later (usually sooner) most journalists want to belong. They want to be in good moral odor. They crave the blessings of the public and the respect of their peers. If they are David Brock or Joe Conason, they want to be invited to the White House, or at least called on the phone by Bill or Hillary or, more likely, by Sid Blumenthal. There isn’t a trade in existence whose practitioners require such monstrous injections of reassurance, or whose cravings for prizes and kindred tokens of esteem are so intense.
Alexander Cockburn
30254. Julius Caesar - 3/19/2002 12:44:34 PM
Very Funny Alexander Cockburn Piece
30255. Julius Caesar - 3/19/2002 12:47:23 PM
Are journalists meant to turn a blind eye if the gay-baiting family values" congressman turns out to be screwing congressional pageboys, or if the sermonizing president is caught having phone sex with his intern or getting blowjobs from her in the White House kitchen?
The answer, from those like Rich who once sullied Brock but who now seek to resurrect him, is that the journalists are only meant to turn a blind eye to the latter.
30256. Julius Caesar - 3/19/2002 12:49:21 PM
Rich is a loyal Democrat and Times columnist who will walk almost any pontificatory gangplank if he reckons it will help his guy.
Damn, I wish I'd read this when Cockburn wrote it.
30257. concerned - 3/19/2002 1:00:42 PM
Aaargh! Grow that beard back!
30258. ronski - 3/19/2002 1:28:52 PM
I helped Lincoln, after all.
30259. ronski - 3/19/2002 1:29:11 PM
It helped, rather.
30260. ronski - 3/19/2002 1:30:10 PM
I personally had very little to do with Lincoln, whether he actually was gay, as Larry Kramer claims, or not.
30261. bubbaette - 3/19/2002 1:33:01 PM
I carry his portrait in my wallet and have several copper profiles of him in my desk drawer.
30262. ronski - 3/19/2002 1:36:36 PM
That's quite generous of you, being a woman of the South and all.
30263. betty - 3/19/2002 1:41:28 PM
bub,
really, isn't Lincoln little more than rapist of the South?
30264. betty - 3/19/2002 1:41:56 PM
oops, I see ronski beat me to it.
30265. bubbaette - 3/19/2002 1:56:24 PM
That's quite generous of you, being a woman of the South and all.
As a southern woman, I am pragmatic. I keep him around because he buys me things.
30266. CalGal - 3/19/2002 2:04:58 PM
Race doesn't go to the Swift (hyuk)
Acting Gov. Jane Swift dropped out of the governor's race Tuesday, just hours before Salt Lake City Winter Olympics chief Mitt Romney was expected to announce his candidacy.
30267. Erin R. - 3/19/2002 6:06:15 PM
I'm glad she dropped out. But did she have to cry during the announcement?
30268. judithathome - 3/19/2002 6:45:28 PM
People seem to like it when politicians cry...they think GW is wonderful everytime he does it.
30269. concerned - 3/19/2002 6:46:55 PM
Doesn't it just getcha, right there?
30270. judithathome - 3/19/2002 6:48:47 PM
Not really. But then, you knew that.
30271. jexster - 3/19/2002 7:24:47 PM
71 In Economics
'FALLON, Mo., March 18 — Nine days after signing the second tax cut since he took office, President Bush today proposed a new round of cuts, intended largely for small businesses, a constituency he is heavily courting for the coming Congressional elections.
30272. wonkers2 - 3/19/2002 7:28:18 PM
Erin, What do you expect? She's a girl! (Just kidding.)
30273. jexster - 3/19/2002 7:32:16 PM
Sunday's front-page story in The Times on doctors who shun patients with Medicare may have been alarming enough; it seems that recent cuts in Medicare payments are inducing many doctors to avoid treating Medicare recipients at all. But this is just the beginning of a struggle that will soon dominate American politics.
71 in Economics
30274. arkymalarky - 3/19/2002 8:56:21 PM
It gets me when almost anyone cries, unless I perceive it to be fake crying, in which case I want to bust them one. Like slapping that nose job right off Paula Jones' face.
30275. jexster - 3/19/2002 10:30:54 PM
Krony Kapitalism vs. States' Rights & Consumer Protection - No Contest
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/19/technology/19SOFT.htmlBush Tries to Block State AG Suits Against MS
30276. jexster - 3/19/2002 10:31:38 PM
Bush Tries to Block State AG Suits Against MS
30277. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 3/20/2002 12:11:21 AM
People seem to like it when politicians cry...they think GW is wonderful everytime he does it.
He's a girly-man!
30278. concerned - 3/20/2002 1:24:18 AM
From Newsmax:
NOW Took Clinton Cash Before Falling Silent on Sexgate
NewsMax | 03/19/2002 |
The National Organization for Women received a series of unprecedented federal grants from the Clinton administration totaling over $700,000 before the women's group fell silent on charges a sexual harassment, sexual assault and even rape in the Paula Jones and Monica Lewinsky cases four years ago.
In an exclusive interview with NewsMax.com, Tammy Bruce, former head of the Los Angeles chapter of NOW and more recently the author of "The New Thought Police," said the federal windfall to the nation's premier feminist group came in 1997, just after the Supreme Court decided that Ms. Jones could sue President Clinton before he left office.
"NOW had never taken federal funds before," Bruce told NewsMax. "But as soon as Paula Jones won the ability in the Supreme Court to sue Bill Clinton" the federal dollars began flowing to NOW in a big way, she said.
"The California chapter was pretty close to bankruptcy. And suddenly there's this grant that was given to NOW through the Department of Health and Human Services, headed up at the time by Donna Shalala - from the Centers of Disease Control element of HHS through their Tobacco Control Office."
Bruce said that the initial payment to California NOW was over $500,000, even though neither it nor national NOW had ever done anything in the realm of smoking prevention to justify the funding.
"When the Monica Lewinsky scandal broke, that grant was then transferred to National NOW," Bruce said. Shortly after the Clinton administration began funneling money to the national organization, NOW's then-president Patricia Ireland participated in a press conference supporting Bill Clinton, the former L.A. NOW chief said.
"At that point, another $200,000 went into NOW's coffers," Bruce alleged. "All totaled it was $766,000."
30279. concerned - 3/20/2002 1:24:39 AM
"In the nonprofit world, $700,000 is an astronomical amount of money," the lesbian feminist leader explained. "I can safely say that half-a-million dollars at the California NOW level is monumental. It probably saved them from going under."
Bruce said that California NOW's fund-raising apparatus was so important that had the state chapter gone down, it would have taken the national organization with it.
After taking the Clinton administration cash, NOW "directly rebuked Paula Jones, and when it came to Monica Lewinsky, (the group) issued comments as to how this wasn't sexual harassment," Bruce said, despite the workplace power Clinton wielded over his then 22-year-old subordinate.
In fact, instead of coming to Jones' aid, then-NOW President Patricia Ireland was privately contemptuous of her legal fight, according to a behind-the-scenes account offered by Bruce.
"I remember being in NOW's national office in Washington, D.C. sometime in 1995 when I overheard a conversation between Patricia and others," she recalled. "I remember that Paula Jones' lawyers were trying to connect with NOW at the time and that their call was not taken."
Bruce said she heard Ireland "laughing about how she was managing to avoid those telephone calls."
adjectives that describe the WH Rapist and NOW: rotten, corrupt, diseased, degenerate, venal, worthless, hypocritical, criminal, dishonest, decayed, putrid, fetid, opprobrious, malicious, nefarious, malignant, malevolent, noxious, evil....
30280. concerned - 3/20/2002 1:31:12 AM
The GWB administration would never stoop so low as this, thank god.
30281. concerned - 3/20/2002 1:45:34 AM
Plus, NOW has shown themselves to be nothing but a gaggle of prostitutes.
30282. concerned - 3/20/2002 1:59:15 AM
Plus NOW, Clowntoon and Shalala are guilty of bribery and fraud with these money exchanges. And to think that this is the best the Left has to offer.
30283. jexster - 3/20/2002 2:18:42 AM
Nice rant, factually wrong, cheap shot smear but hey what else is new? Maybe I missed it amid all the purple prose but a basic question Moron - do you have any earthly idea what the grants were for?
You would think that these sex starved whack jobs would at least try to disguise the odor of their vomit. This is REALLY piss poor propaganda. On its face its a joke.
The U.S. should demonstrate its ongoing commitment to an open trading system. Without dynamism in world trade, the countries of East Asia, and developing economies around the world, will have a hard or impossible recovery task. In terms of growth, price stability, employment, innovation, and national wealth and power, the United States has benefited enormously from the liberalized global trading system. If the U.S. now hesitates, or worse, retreats, how can we expect others to stand up to those who oppose competition...Robert Zoellick, Bush's Trade "negotiator"
The GWB administration would never stoop so low as this, thank god.
Chenron
Clean Air Act
Steel Tariff
Crusader Artillery....
You want more? I have 70 payoffs in a list somewhere here. Not being a National Enquirer afficianado, I won't compound your insult to intelligence by claiming any of these were bribes or fraud.
But each is a damn sight closer to crime than that load of Clinton bashing crap.
30284. jexster - 3/20/2002 2:19:57 AM
Fit for white trailer trash, well like come to think of it - Paula Jones!
30285. jexster - 3/20/2002 2:22:56 AM
In the non-profit world 700,000 is not an astronomical amount of money in case you really cared about facts that is.
National Enquirer School of Political Reporting .
30286. OhioSTOPAS - 3/20/2002 6:16:13 AM
concerned's silly link is a typical right-wing slam against NOW and other women's advocacy groups. Wingnuts caricurature such organizations' positions as "every woman is right, every man is wrong", then accuse the organization of hypocrisy if it doesn't conform to their false caricature of it.
30287. OhioSTOPAS - 3/20/2002 6:21:56 AM
Did I really type "caricurature"?? Jeez. I know it's early in the morning, but that's ridiculous.
30288. joezan - 3/20/2002 7:47:21 AM
Well, it's what the money WASN'T for that is the crux of the biscuit in concerned's link, morons.
How much anti-smoking literature have you seen from NOW?
30289. OhioSTOPAS - 3/20/2002 8:47:32 AM
Plenty. NOW has frequently criticized cigarette advertising that is directed at women.
30290. bubbaette - 3/20/2002 8:54:05 AM
I don't think I've ever seen any NOW literature on any subject.
30291. ycmeehan - 3/20/2002 9:24:22 AM
NOW Took Clinton Cash Before Falling Silent on Sexgate
concerned,
After copying and pasting most of the article in posts #30278, 30279, why did you omit the last paragraph which is as follows?:
Read more from trailblazing feminist Tammy Bruce on NOW's betrayal of Paula Jones, its secret alliance with Jesse Jackson and how the left waged war against talk radio's Dr. Laura Schlessinger in NewsMax magazine's May issue.
Order Tammy Bruce's blockbuster book "The New Thought Police" at an unbeatable price at NewsMax.com's bookstore.
30292. OhioSTOPAS - 3/20/2002 9:40:48 AM
Because the fact that Tammy Bruce is peddling a book does not affect her credibility in the SLIGHTEST. Concerned just didn't want to burden us with irrelevant facts, and I for one appreciate it.
30293. ycmeehan - 3/20/2002 9:48:56 AM
NOW and SMOKING
Links:
Health Effects of Smoking
Kids and Smoking
Hispanic Women and Tobacco
African American Women and Tobacco
Health Effects of Smoking in Developing Countries
30294. Cygnus X-1 - 3/20/2002 10:06:28 AM
Hey Whiz, perhaps you missed it, but your hero has called off the dogs:
"It would be good if no one paid attention to those who criticize Bush..."
- Mikhail Gorbachev
30295. jexster - 3/20/2002 10:28:29 AM
Why Cyg you are right wing cannon fodder. Veritable volksturm of the Limbaugh Legion.
It seems that the our so-called President shares the Communist distaste for criticism and democratic process. Maybe that's the kindred spirit Mullah Moron recognized in His Miraculous Vision of Putin's soul.
The Imperial Presidency, born again, in our Moron King dimly lit mind:
30296. jexster - 3/20/2002 10:32:25 AM
L'etat c'est Moron?
Hey I have a great idea, a deep thought for the Bastard of the US -create WH "directors" for each cabinet office, send the Cabinet Secretaries on extended vacation, and presto - 1/2 way to shredding the fuckin Magna Carta!
30297. jexster - 3/20/2002 10:39:55 AM
But the biscuit, in case you missed it, has worms in it JoeZ.
The fuckin article is absurd on its face.
Simple Shit for Simpletons consisting of no more than
- LA NOW got a grant.
- NOW supports Clinton (read NOW supports baby killers fags and fellow travelers who undermine our morals)
- NOW thinks Paula Jones/and DickGate was farce, a smear concocted by the GOP Taliban.
Add a heap of foam and presto, brain food for the brain dead. Real National Enquirer trailer trash journalism.
What a joke.
30298. jexster - 3/20/2002 10:40:49 AM
Bubs that's because, how can I put this delicately, you live in a fuckin backwater.
30299. jexster - 3/20/2002 10:46:42 AM
Oh don't get me wrong, Ohio, I appreciate concerned as much as the next guy. I get the feeling that its hard to take TD seriously because TD doesn't take himself seriously.
30300. concerned - 3/20/2002 10:47:58 AM
Re. 30291 -
Because:
1) It's not part of the article.
2) It's not relevant to the article.
3) I'm not in the business of pushing books.
4) There's absolutely no reason to do so.
30301. bubbaette - 3/20/2002 10:48:04 AM
Jex - wouldn't have it any other way. I think that part of the reason that I haven't seen any literature from NOW is that they're irrelevant in my lil ol backwater and they're irrelevant in most womens' lives. But they do make a convenient whipping gal for the right wing. Sort of like trying to discredit the civil rights movement by mentioning Louis Farakhan whenever the subject of civil rights comes up.
30302. concerned - 3/20/2002 10:50:12 AM
Re. 30299 -
What's scary is that jexster thinks anybody believes that his posts are meant seriously.
'Rats just gotta love their Rapist, I guess.
30303. jexster - 3/20/2002 10:50:55 AM
See what I mean.
30304. jexster - 3/20/2002 10:55:58 AM
Ya know I really like Bill CLinton. Saw him speak in person for the first time just before the election. He was fuckin unreal, awesome. I think that the Last President of the US was one of our better ones.
But I can live without him while 3/4 of the GOP is having delirium tremens.
30305. concerned - 3/20/2002 11:06:50 AM
Re. 30298 -
Really, who would want to see 'litterature' from a pack of prostitutes like NOW, anyway?
30306. Julius Caesar - 3/20/2002 11:12:00 AM
A Sad, Funny Piece on the Reno Campaign
30307. jexster - 3/20/2002 11:19:01 AM
Really, who would want to see 'litterature' from a pack of prostitutes like NOW, anyway?
Oh Lord, I have encouraged him.
TD you go girl!
30308. jexster - 3/20/2002 11:23:29 AM
Here's a sad, funny bit for you Julio.....why I feel 12 again..just me and Julio down by the school yard!
Short people got no reason
Short people got no reason
Short people got no reason to live.
They got little hands,
Little eyes,
They walk around tellin' great big lies.
They got little noses,
Tiny little teeth,
They wear platform shoes
On their nasty little feet.
Well I don't want no short people
Don't want no short people
Don't want no short people 'round here.
(Short people are just the same as you and I.)
A fool such as I. (All men are brothers until the day they die.)
It's a wonderful world.
Short people got nobody
Short people got nobody
Short people got nobody to love
They got little baby legs
They stand so low
You got to pick 'em up
Just to say hello.
They got little cars
That go beep beep beep.
They got little voices
Goin' peep peep peep.
They got grubby little fingers
And dirty little minds.
They're gonna get you
Every time.
Well I don't want no short people
Don't want no short people
Don't want no short people 'round here.
30309. Julius Caesar - 3/20/2002 11:25:15 AM
Rustler's correct.
You got talent.
30310. concerned - 3/20/2002 11:25:27 AM
Reno has been, aptly, I think, compared to a long strip of diseased gristle.
30311. concerned - 3/20/2002 11:29:46 AM
Re. 30308 -
Little Tommy Daschole would probably find that positively hurtful. Maybe Stooge Reno could get his endorsement?
30312. concerned - 3/20/2002 11:36:22 AM
Re. 30263 -
I hope Betty was joking here. Hasn't she ever of something called 'emancipation'?
30313. concerned - 3/20/2002 11:36:34 AM
Re. 30263 -
I hope Betty was joking here. Hasn't she ever heard of something called 'emancipation'?
30314. Cygnus X-1 - 3/20/2002 11:40:12 AM
jexster, I'm not trying to silence you. On the contrary, idiots are hilarious. As Twain said, "the secret source of humor is not joy, but sorrow”, and you are one sorrowful asshole. Nevertheless, I consider it my duty to remind you that, as Mikhail Gorbachev said, "it would be good if no one paid attention to those who criticize Bush..."
Hmmm… Maybe Gorbachev hasn’t had a change of heart after all. Maybe he’s realized that democrats’/socialists’/communists’/idiots’ criticisms of Bush have become humorous in their abject irrationality that he’s trying to save you before you do any more damage to what’s left of your reputations. The application of double standards can only be tolerated for so long, even by those who champion such practices.
30315. jexster - 3/20/2002 11:52:34 AM
More like a giant pile of rancid hawg maws and chitterlins I'd say TD.
30316. jexster - 3/20/2002 11:53:43 AM
Cyg...
Hate to break it to ya but I lose sleep at night worrying that you might be tryin to silence me!
30317. jexster - 3/20/2002 11:57:06 AM
But hey don't feel bad dude, its not your fault that I feel betrayed by the man with the freaky red streak...I did so look to him for guidance. And to think, I wanted him to autograph my copy of the Thoughts of Chairman Mao.
30318. robertjayb - 3/20/2002 2:25:48 PM
Just 17% Say White House Is Telling
Whole Truth On Enron(HotlineScoop.com)
More than half of Americans believe that members of the Bush administration hiding something on Enron, while just 17% believe they are telling the whole truth. And 67% said they believe contributions to members of Congress by Enron and its execs make it difficult for Congress to conduct a fair investigation into the collapse of the energy firm.
30319. jexster - 3/20/2002 2:34:14 PM
Az mir vill schlugen a hunt, gifintmin a schtecken - If one wants to beat a dog, one finds a stick
In an interview with Salon, James Carville pulled no punches.
"I think the Democratic Party has the chronic problem of appearing to be weak, of not standing and fighting for what it believes in, not fighting for its own. I think that America will not trust a party to defend America that isn't willing to defend itself. And that's basically my message. The Republicans are hard-hitting, ruthless, and we don't have to do everything they do, but we ought to be just as willing to stand up for what's right as they're willing to stand up for what is wrong... Democrats in Washington are completely mortified that somebody's gonna say something bad about them at a dinner party in Cleveland Park on a Saturday night. You tell them there's an Op-Ed piece coming out, with somebody saying they're being divisive, and they'll fall apart."
Amen Brotha Carville! Do I hear an AMEN?!?!
30320. jexster - 3/20/2002 2:35:09 PM
His mom Nipsy was born and raised in my hometown.
There's fire in Cajun blood.
30321. OhioSTOPAS - 3/20/2002 2:40:11 PM
Cygnus is extremely proud that a real-life Communist said something nice about President Bush.
I guess when Cyg calls the New York Times the "Commie Times" he's intending to bestow a compliment. Who knew?
30322. Julius Caesar - 3/20/2002 2:48:16 PM
Carville is partially correct, but, like jexster, he drains any semblance of a philosophy from his solid advice of party courage. What is left is an Al Davis "Just Win Baby!" ethos with no textual purpose. It is enough for Carville to amass troops and mount an attack under the banner of "Not Republican." As such, instead of their present incarnation of hesitation, Democrats under the Carville-Begala-jexster wing become toothless, not from fear of institutional reproach, but because everybody sees them as soulless and unbalanced shills, screaming "The American people don't care about the camps. They care about the trains running on time!" They bare their fangs so often that no one fears their bite.
This in and of itself evinces a weakness every bit as virulent as the one Carville decries.
30323. Cellar Door - 3/20/2002 2:55:57 PM
Quite true, Julius. The Democractic party lost its purpose some time ago. Lost its soul in fact.
That's why mario Cuomo declined to run. It wasn't widespread ational support he feared he couldn't get. It was the support of his own party.
30324. OhioSTOPAS - 3/20/2002 3:11:37 PM
". . . What is left is an Al Davis "Just Win Baby!" ethos with no textual purpose. It is enough for Carville to amass troops and mount an attack under the banner of "Not Republican." . . . "
Oh, baloney. That passage is about doing the right thing for the public, not beating Republicans for its own sake.
30325. bubbaette - 3/20/2002 3:19:28 PM
Besides, which, talk about your Pot calling the Kettle black -- the Republican Party has been the win-at-all-costs party.
30326. OhioSTOPAS - 3/20/2002 3:21:40 PM
Carville has a point. I think a good illustration of what he's talking about was the testimony of Anita Hill at the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings ten years ago.
The Democrats - Biden, Kennedy, et al - bumbled along in an effort to find the truth while at the same time adhering to their gentleman's agreement that the hearings would end in x days.
The Republicans - Hatch, Simpson, Specter - didn't give a SHIT about that. They were willing to do whatever it took to get their guy on the Supreme Court, truth be damned.
Did Clarence Thomas belong on the Supreme Court? Was it in the public's interest to have his nomination confirmed? That was the principal issue, but Democrats' reluctance to assert themselves prevented that issue from being fully considered.
30327. Cellar Door - 3/20/2002 3:41:01 PM
30328. OhioSTOPAS - 3/20/2002 4:02:56 PM
"Whitewater" was crap.
It took eight years to figure this out?
30329. ronski - 3/20/2002 4:10:57 PM
Tom Daschle worried about not being liked?
You guys have got to be kidding.
Carville's remarks could easily be applied to a host of GOPers from Bush 43 down through Congress and down to the state level, where GOP governors and legislators are borrowing money like crazy to fund new government programs and abandoning any semblance of fiscal restraint, in order to please the center, avoid being called bad names, and to win at all costs.
And look at Bush and the steel quotas. Another flight from principle.
30330. Julius Caesar - 3/20/2002 4:11:28 PM
Many of you - not Cellar - misunderstand. "Just Win baby!" is not in and of itself an indefensible credo. But Carville fails to tie the winning to an understandable code of political principles.
You may loathe Republicans. You may find them offensive to the core. But they have dominated the policy debate because they have melded Carville's "Just Win baby!" with a code of political principles (vile though they may be) that has been more consistent.
And they often kill their own for philosophical heresy.
Carville thinks he can simply build up more "Just Win Baby!" muscle around a "At Least I'm Not A Cretinous Republican!"
(actually, he doesn't - philosophically, he's an unrepentant old-style liberal, but he suffered the wounds of early 80s Democratic fratricide, sold his soul to triangulation, and now, is hoping to build up a very strong right fist, knowing he has cut his left arm off)
30331. Julius Caesar - 3/20/2002 4:16:59 PM
Ronski
You cite minor matters, which is the way of the libertarian, confusing everday choice-making and expedience with philosophical heresy.
When the GOP abandons a pro-life plank, when it endorses affirmative action, when it favors gun restriction, when it embraces the State Department over Defense, that is the day it will be triangulating itself into extinction.
30332. jexster - 3/20/2002 4:18:22 PM
Cyg has every right to be proud of Gorby. He's very much a soul mate of our Manichean Moralizer and OverLord...
Mikhail Gorbachev, speaking at an environmental symposium for Global Green USA, criticized Bush's refusal to sign the Kyoto Protocol. Gorbachev's concern for the widespread environmental destruction in the former Soviet Union inspired him to found Green Cross International, the parent organization of Global Green, USA. Gorbachev stressed that stabilizing the environment will help stabilize the world. About Bush's lame excuses for not cooperating, he said: "Every country has its own interests. But national interest can't be imposed on others."
Commies!
Bushies...
Can't trust 'em as far as you can spit...
30333. ronski - 3/20/2002 4:30:12 PM
Right. Sure. Growing government in leaps and bounds is a mere trifle.
And in New York State, the GOP has abandoned the pro-life position, has passed sweeping gun restrictions, and has long embraced affirmative action.
30334. Cygnus X-1 - 3/20/2002 4:31:49 PM
Here's an exercise for you goons. You figure out what the Democrat party should stand for. And please spare me the shibboleths like "education" and "the children". When you're done listing your socialist/communist goals like equality of outcome (as opposed to opportunity), then you should try and figure out how to achieve your goals. Then, try and do it without sacrificing the liberties you've all of a sudden appreciated again as a result of our response to terrorism. I won't even ask you to restrict yourselves to constitutional means since I know what little regard you have for the Constitution.
Good luck. Here's some advice. Shut off any reasoning abilities you have and stick with your emotions. Otherwise, you'll just frustrate yourself and given the sad state of affairs for liberals these days, it just might send you over the edge.
30335. Julius Caesar - 3/20/2002 4:36:13 PM
Ronski
National politics simply cannot afford the doctrinaire. And units of the whole are irrelevant to Carville's point.
We are talking national politics. The New York GOP vis-a-vis the national party is as relevant to the inquiry as the planks of the city of San Francisco.
For national politics, if you want to succeed, you must hold and articulate a philosophy. It need not be rigid, just semi-consistent.
Without it, all the Atwater or Carville muscle in the world is misdirected.
30336. CalGal - 3/20/2002 4:38:36 PM
test
30337. Cygnus X-1 - 3/20/2002 4:41:01 PM
Here's a political principle of Republicans I bet you find vile. They believe the right to free speech and the bearing of arms can not be infringed (what, being mentioned in the 1st & 2nd amendments directly and 9th and 10th indirectly) and so oppose CFR on principle. Also, since there's no mention of abortion in the Constitution, they allow that states can place restrictions on it. You may believe the diametrics opposite, but that's vile if anything is.
30338. jexster - 3/20/2002 4:42:36 PM
Holy Leaping Logic Lizards Julio!
Now where did you find that in the Carville quote?
What is left is an Al Davis "Just Win Baby!" ethos with no textual purpose.
Mangled grammar aside, what is left is YOUR rather bogus, gratuitous, baseless and ultimately false leap of logic.
"Outside the GOP there is no salvation no principle" are your blinders not a statement of Carville's political philosophy nor mine. Keep your dogmatic dogshit out of my back yard.
but because everybody sees them as soulless and unbalanced shills,
We interrupt this wet dream with a NEWSFLASH..dateline the Real World...Gore won the last Election by 500,000 votes...now back to your delusion now in progress...
As for the remainder, I concede that the democrats are Nazi to the core who'd gas right thinking Christian folk in a heartbeat.
30339. jexster - 3/20/2002 4:46:19 PM
"They believe the right to free speech and the bearing of arms can not be infringed (what, being mentioned in the 1st & 2nd amendments directly and 9th and 10th indirectly) and so oppose CFR on principle"
The Code of Federal Regulations?
Why I never knew that!
30340. Julius Caesar - 3/20/2002 4:47:04 PM
jexster
what is left is YOUR rather bogus, gratuitous, baseless and ultimately false leap of logic.
Four adjectives = less meds.
Gore won the last Election by 500,000 votes
Tell it to Keith Van Horn
30341. jexster - 3/20/2002 4:50:33 PM
I leave it to Cyg, our resident Constitutional expert, to explain the difference between a basketball game, the Immaculate Reception, and the franchise.
More to the point though, your "everybody loves me" crap is stinking up my back yard. A sentence to four adjectives is lenient.
30342. jexster - 3/20/2002 4:54:15 PM
And speakin of dog shit, you forgot that Al Davis pile over by the rose bushes.
Al Davis! Please. When I tire of Bush, I bash Davis and the Raiders on SFGATE under the nom de guerre "Darth Fader, Ruler of the Fader Nation, Lord of the Black Hole"
30343. OhioSTOPAS - 3/20/2002 5:23:03 PM
The FOX News headline describing today's I.C. Whitewater report exonerating the Clintons:
Final Report Shows Clintons Benefited from Criminal Transactions
Ah, "Fair and Balanced".
30344. concerned - 3/20/2002 5:45:11 PM
Re. 30343 -
The WH Rapist has hardly been exonerated. He had to cut deals to avoid being indicted, settling for just impeachment and disbarment; plus, about all his 'friends' have spent time in the slammer.
30345. concerned - 3/20/2002 5:47:22 PM
It's too bad that Lefties aren't willing to admit what a breath of ethical clean air the Bush administration has been compared to the festering putrescence which preceded it.
30346. bubbaette - 3/20/2002 5:47:41 PM
Spare me the tripe about Republican ideological consistancy.
The believe in personal freedom as long as you go to their church, define "family" as they do, and make a fair amount of money.
They are anti-abortion, pro-death penalty and believe that every child is sacred until they're born.
They believe in smaller government except for the military, police force and jails (unless their business friends demand otherwise.)
They believe in personal responsibility except for white collar criminals, corporate welfare, and republican sexual peccadillos.
They believe in the power of the free market unless their business friends object.
30347. concerned - 3/20/2002 5:51:37 PM
If it weren't for Republicans, bubbaette would probably have slaves on her plantation - the ultimate welfare state.
30348. OhioSTOPAS - 3/20/2002 5:51:41 PM
Bubbaette: Republicans ARE consistent: They consistently follow the principle of helping the already well-off.
What they are INconsistent about is the principles they PURPORT to be consistent about, as you have demonstrated.
30349. OhioSTOPAS - 3/20/2002 5:53:50 PM
Well, 'concerned' has us there: "Republicans freed the slaves!"
Anything laudible they've done since, Connie?
30350. concerned - 3/20/2002 5:55:57 PM
Not if you're a corrupt, power hungry, war loving, freedom hating communist, I guess.
30351. bubbaette - 3/20/2002 5:58:36 PM
Concerned, you are an idiot. My mother is a naturalized citizen who moved here from Germany. My father's family is from Northern Indiana.
Freed any slaves lately, pinhead?
30352. Julius Caesar - 3/20/2002 6:02:57 PM
I see that bubb and Ohio have proven a worthy intellectual match for concerned. Good. I feared it might be Harding v. Jones, but this is much more Bridges v. Vanilla Ice.
30353. concerned - 3/20/2002 6:06:07 PM
JC -
Write any good stories lately?
30354. Julius Caesar - 3/20/2002 6:08:10 PM
Nah. Just some pulp.
30355. concerned - 3/20/2002 6:14:49 PM
JC -
just kidding:) I'm just waiting for you to write several chapters before I delve into your magnum opus, so I can appreciate it holistically.
30356. bubbaette - 3/20/2002 6:22:54 PM
JC
bite me
30357. jexster - 3/20/2002 6:36:48 PM
Well so much for 90% of GOP principles for the past ten years
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In the final four (news - web sites)-volume report on the Whitewater scandal that dogged Bill Clinton's presidency, an independent counsel said on Wednesday there was insufficient evidence that Bill or Hillary Rodham Clinton (news - web sites) took part in or knew of any criminal conduct.
30358. concerned - 3/20/2002 6:39:16 PM
Whoever wrote that is quite the liar. Ray said that sufficient evidence existed to easily indict Clowntoon on perjury alone.
30359. jexster - 3/20/2002 6:42:57 PM
Ray wrote it. And for your edification, TD(Daschle), the charge that Ray so timorously leveled but dared not bring, was not perjury but the lesser charge of lying under oath.
Thus ends the Farce.
30360. jexster - 3/20/2002 6:44:10 PM
For our Spanish speaking audience, Bubbaette of the Tide-Backwater, daughter of Ole Virginny said to JC...
muerda me
Acabo de bromear
30361. concerned - 3/20/2002 6:45:48 PM
jexster -
The only thing that you have right here is that Ray is timorous. If he resembled in any way the imaginary Republicans that Lefties love to scare themselves about, the WH Rapist would be sent up the river for life.
30362. bubbaette - 3/20/2002 6:47:19 PM
In your wet dreams.
30363. concerned - 3/20/2002 6:50:17 PM
bubbs -
Maybe x42 will still assault some woman and make you very happy.
30364. jexster - 3/20/2002 6:52:15 PM
"the WH Rapist would be sent up the river for life."
Justice tempered with mercy.
He should have gotten the death gurney.
30365. jexster - 3/20/2002 6:54:01 PM
With Paula Jones performing fellatio on Monica in the Witness Gallery.
TELEVISED.
30366. jexster - 3/20/2002 6:58:39 PM
Ashcroft hires Florida hatchet man to oversee voter rights..
A man is known by the company he keeps and the companies he pays back...
"former employee of the Voting Integrity Project, which ran the disputed purging of Florida voter rolls of alleged felons during the 2000 election, and the other is a former senior counsel for the Center for Equal Opportunity, an organization that has been sharply critical of preferential affirmative action policies. They will be part of a voting-rights task force Ashcroft announced last year, to be headed by a political appointee... Civil Rights Assistant Attorney General Ralph F. Boyd Jr... acknowledged hiring Hans A. von Spakovsky, a former board member of the Voting Integrity Project, and Hugh Joseph Beard, former senior counsel for the Center for Equal Opportunity, as career lawyers in the voting rights section."
30367. jexster - 3/20/2002 8:22:21 PM
"This Office investigated whether President and Mrs. Clinton knowingly participated in any criminal conduct related to Madison Guaranty, CMS, or Whitewater Development or had any knowledge of such conduct. This Office determined that the evidence was insufficient to prove to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that either President or Mrs. Clinton knowingly participated in any criminal conduct involving Madison Guaranty, CMS, or Whitewater Development or knew of such conduct. The evidence relating to their testimony and conduct, in connection with this investigation and other investigations involving the same entities, was also, in the judgment of this Office, insufficient to prove to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that either of them committed any criminal offense, including perjury (18 U.S.C. § 1621) or obstruction of justice (18 U.S.C. § 1503)."
And that has Democrats hopping mad, for good reason. Pat "Leahy, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, is urging Attorney General John Ashcroft and the General Accounting Office to investigate whether Ray broke any laws, regulations or ethics rules. Independent prosecutors 'must bring single-minded focus and unassailable impartiality to their investigations,' Leahy said Monday in a letter to Ashcroft. 'It was that role which Mr. Ray swore an oath to fulfill, and that is why I am compelled to question his simultaneous partisan, political activity.' Leahy also wrote to David Walker, comptroller general of the GAO, the investigative arm of Congress... Rep. John Conyers of Michigan, raised similar questions last month in letters to Ray and to the three federal appeals court judges who appointed him.
Make Him Assistant Dir of Homeland Defense!
30368. wonkers2 - 3/20/2002 8:36:13 PM
"With Monica Lewinsky performing fellatio on Paula Jones..."
Is there something I missed about Paula Jones? I was aware she had a nose job but not of any other changes. (Just a minor technical point!)
30369. jexster - 3/20/2002 8:58:18 PM
cunnilingus
30370. jexster - 3/20/2002 8:58:48 PM
or perhaps I was right the first time....
30371. wonkers2 - 3/20/2002 9:50:23 PM
As everyone probably already knows McCainFeingoldShaysMeehan has passed! The most far reaching campaign finance legislation in many a moon (ever?).
30372. ronski - 3/20/2002 11:19:22 PM
JC,
Consistency is a virtue in politics, I suppose. But so are principles. It is hard to define any overriding principle guiding the GOP nowadays.
You know, you really oughta be nice to me, like you used to be, when you thought I was about to run away with Ace.
I have yet to renew my membership in the LP, given Harry's getting half the votes in 2000 that he received in 1996.
If the NY GOP stops the gay-bashing kow-towing to the local Conservative Party, I will probably enroll as a Republican, after all.
What is the alternative, said to say...?
30373. Cygnus X-1 - 3/21/2002 9:15:17 AM
So CFR is about to be passed into law with full public funding of campaigns "the wave of the future". I wonder if you liberals will be as averse to the idea of being forced to pay for campaigns of people you find despicable. Other than that, I guess we have nothing to fear and all will be well. The fears that people in powerful places will exert too much control over who gets to run for office, how much they get funded, and what they can say are unfounded, right?
Let's see, how long has it been...226 years this July? It would be a shame to do it all over again, but "when in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another..."
30374. Cygnus X-1 - 3/21/2002 9:46:57 AM
CFR part II?
We hear a lot of carping about wartime threats to civil liberties, so it's worth considering how civil liberties are treated in the enemy's part of the world. In Syria, "lawmaker" Mamoun Homsi has been sentenced to five years in prison for "trying to illegally change the nation's constitution." A Syrian "court" also gave him a six-month suspended sentence for "defaming the government through his allegations of corruption and claims that Syrians lack freedom," the Associated Press reports.
Meanwhile, our friends the Saudis have jailed "a poet who penned verses blasting Saudi Arabia's Islamic judges as corrupt and serving 'tyrants.' "
30375. Wombat - 3/21/2002 9:49:43 AM
Your point being...?
30376. wonkers2 - 3/21/2002 9:54:10 AM
GOP HONOR ROLL (Voted for campaign finance reform bill)
Chaffee, Rhode Island
Cochran, Mississippi
Collins, Maine
Domenici, New Mexico
Fitzgerald, Illinois
Lugar, Indiana
McCain, Arizona
Snowe, Maine
Specter, Pennsylvania
Thompson, Tennessee
Warner, Virginia
Also Independent
Jeffords, Vermont
(Two Democrats voted no: Breauz, Louisiana and Nelson, Nebraska.)
Final vote: 60 Yes, 40 No
30377. Cygnus X-1 - 3/21/2002 9:59:04 AM
My point is that Muhammed John McCain is trying to turn the US government into a Middle East style of government by enacting restrictions on government criticism.
30378. Cygnus X-1 - 3/21/2002 10:01:30 AM
McCain, Snowe, and Chaffee are Republicans in name only. Specter has mental problems. I'm not familiar enough with the other "Republicans".
30379. bubbaette - 3/21/2002 10:05:44 AM
Awright Warner!! He's made several principled votes -- not a bad guy for a Republican. I saw John McCaine on The Daily Show a few nights ago --there's another Republican I could vote for.
30380. wonkers2 - 3/21/2002 10:08:59 AM
We would certainly welcome all of them into the Democratic Party. Richard Lugar would have made a much better candidate than Bush for the GOP in the last election. Of course, so would McCain. I'm not familiar with Specter's mental problems. He seems perfectly sane to me. As for McCain your comment that he is a Republican in name only is way off base. He almost won the GOP nomination over Bush, and his voting record is mostly quite conservative.
30381. Cygnus X-1 - 3/21/2002 10:14:46 AM
Spector voted "not proven" in impeachment. That's just bizarre. As for McCain, name one primary he won in which voters were restricted to voting for candidates running for office for the party in which the voter is registered.
So, what do you think about $5 of your paycheck going to pay for George Bush's campaign? Hey, here's one: How about for John Ashcroft? Come on, cough up the $$$.
30382. bubbaette - 3/21/2002 10:18:45 AM
I already check off the box for the funds going to presidential candidates on my tax return. I have no objection to an extra $5 to reduce special interest influence in the political process.
30383. wonkers2 - 3/21/2002 10:22:36 AM
Fine with me. But I don't believe that was part of the bill. ?? Not sure.
McCain beat Bush in Michigan in the primary. The GOP needs candidates with crossover appeal and appeal to independents. Lugar's voting record is also quite conservative. I have never heard anyone call him a liberal Republican. But he is a class act. He is a very honest man who truly votes in the national interest, as he sees it without allowing himself to be bullied by party hacks like Trent Lott.
30384. Cygnus X-1 - 3/21/2002 10:32:53 AM
bubbaette, aren't you the one who criticizes the GOP for opposing abortion and supporting the death penalty as if there is some incongruence? What, you'd rather them protect the guilty and kill the innocent?
wonkers, public financing isn't in CFR, but it's in the works.
Hmmm... So all Bush has to do to keep the GOP in power is stack the FEC with his cronies? Good idea. They can suddenly see a need for more or less public financing depending on who's in or out of power. And NOW just shouldn't be able to speak out in support of Hillary no matter how disparaged she is by the Washington Times and the Fox News Channel, right?
30385. Wombat - 3/21/2002 10:35:59 AM
It seems to me that the main government threat to criticism is that emanating from the inhabitant of the White House, should anyone dare differ with aspects of his policy concerning the War on Terrorism.
The true voice of the people in the electoral process has long since been smothered by special interest money and manipulation.
30386. judithathome - 3/21/2002 10:40:51 AM
Spector voted "not proven" in impeachment
This more proves his sanity than it proves mental problems.
30387. Cygnus X-1 - 3/21/2002 10:46:59 AM
The only "threat" to criticism of Bush comes from public disapproval of irrational, America-hating leftists. Peter Jennings and piss on Bush all he wants, but he shouldn't cry if he loses viewers.
If the voice of the people has been smothered, it was only by their own apathy. So now, since some people speak louder than others, we have to silence all voices. That's the communist way: equality of outcome rather than opportunity.
30388. betty - 3/21/2002 10:49:45 AM
Spector from PA? I saw him kissing a very young and attractive woman in my office building's elevator one time. My friend pointed him out to me as we left the elevator and said "I didn't know Spector was out of jail."
30389. Wombat - 3/21/2002 10:52:15 AM
Well, Cyggie, if you will tell me how NMD and the Crusader artillery system fit into the war on terrorism, I will happily listen.
30390. Wombat - 3/21/2002 10:54:03 AM
Or how a tax cut does, and how any criticism of the Bush Administration was labeled as providing aid and comfort to our enemies, whether or not it concerned the war on terrorism.
30391. Cygnus X-1 - 3/21/2002 10:55:04 AM
Are you talking about missle defense? Are you serious?
30392. Wombat - 3/21/2002 10:57:59 AM
Of course I am serious. Please explicate for me. I crave your profound insights on the matter.
30393. Cygnus X-1 - 3/21/2002 11:02:42 AM
A tax cut spurs the encomony. Criticism of legal detaining of Muslim immigrants immediately after being attacked by Muslim immigrants does indeed give aid and comfort to our enemy. So does soem woman taking 3 shots a George Bush with a high-powered rifle aid and comfort our enemy. What, you say that never happened? Well neither did anyone say criticism unrelated to the war on terrorism gave aid and comfort to our enemies. Stick to the facts.
30394. Cygnus X-1 - 3/21/2002 11:05:11 AM
Before I explain the need for a missle defense, is it or is it not reasonable to ask Iraq or North Korea to kindly detonate any missles they launch at us before it hits our shores? I mean, should we count on being able to do that or not? That pretty much governs the need for a NMD, so please answer that before I waste any time.
30395. Wombat - 3/21/2002 11:12:10 AM
Please describe any actual links that Iraq and North Korea have to terrorism that threatens the United States. Please also describe any missiles that either country has that can reach the United States.
While you are at it, tell us why we should not spend the money being set aside for NMD and the Crusader on the sort of technologies and munitions that are actually being used to great effect in the US war on terrorism.
30396. jexster - 3/21/2002 11:17:49 AM
Very good Wombat.
30397. Cygnus X-1 - 3/21/2002 11:19:42 AM
"The Intelligence Community judged in the mid-1990s that North Korea had produced one, possibly two, nuclear weapons."
"[The] multiple-stage Taepo Dong-2, which is capable of reaching the United States with a nuclear-weapon-sized payload, may be ready for flight testing."
- Robert Walpole, National Intelligence Officer for Strategic and Nuclear Programs for the CIA in Congressional testimony on March 11th.
Now, he didn't say how hard it would be for North Korea to sell this technology to the highest bidder. Should we just hope that they don't?
30398. jexster - 3/21/2002 11:21:28 AM
For Karl Rove, California is a forbidding place, full of hostile Democrats. Even so, the White House’s political mastermind thought he’d found a way to establish a Republican beachhead in the Golden State: back Richard Riordan, the popular former mayor of Los Angeles, for governor against Gray Davis, the pallid and unpopular Democratic incumbent. Riordan seemed perfect to lead a Left Coast GOP: Republican, but nominally; Roman Catholic, but officially pro-choice; wealthy, used to speaking his mind, and therefore refreshingly “maverick.” Besides, President George W. Bush’s best buddies in the state liked him. (One was a former law partner.) Riordan was eager to begin with, but Rove left nothing to chance. He took Riordan to the White House Mess and encouraged him to run. Rove managed to avoid a meeting with Riordan’s main potential competitor for the GOP nomination, another wealthy (but far more conservative) businessman named Bill Simon Jr.
BUT THERE WAS something important Rove didn’t know and, in retrospect, should have feared: Riordan would be chum in the waters patrolled by Davis’s own political mastermind, a cheerfully Machiavellian shark named Garry South
The King is coming to California to stump for his wingnut Simon. Of course, on his last visit, he met Gray Davis who ambushed his stoopid butt in the Laugha in LA (5/01) as Bush tried to defend his Enron buddies.
Cumps Meet Garry South!
30399. jexster - 3/21/2002 11:22:43 AM
ah hell
CHUMps
get it?
30400. jexster - 3/21/2002 11:24:13 AM
Consider the source.
Then consider what he said.
30401. Wombat - 3/21/2002 11:24:37 AM
Cygnus:
After acquiring the Taepo Dong whenever it has been tested successfully (without anyone noticing it), Osama is going to somehow smuggle it out of Korea and launch it from where, the Peshawar bazaar? A cave in Afghanistan? All while our intelligence services and military do nothing to interdict it?
30402. jexster - 3/21/2002 11:25:10 AM
Then consider that NMD is designed to defend from attacks from East Asia.
30403. robertjayb - 3/21/2002 11:30:05 AM
jexster,
You're up too early. Run out to the nearest Mama's for some nice French toast. You'll feel much better.
30404. jexster - 3/21/2002 11:30:08 AM
"South is a coldblooded mako, but goes for the center as well as the jugular."
Is it safe to go in the water?
30405. jexster - 3/21/2002 11:31:34 AM
You know Mama's?!?!?
North Beach....too far away..but I do need some carbs...this depthcharge needs some sugar to get me really fired up
30406. jexster - 3/21/2002 11:34:49 AM
Rogue state nuclear threats remain the phantasm of extreme right wing ideologues who control the Bush Administration. The greatest threat is as it always has been, planes dropping from the sky into the Pentagon; suit case dirty bombs/sarin gas, the very things that 911 and after demonstrated that BUsh remains clueless about.
So what else is new?
Thank God for Colin Powell whose influence ebbs and flows and I am afraid is mostly on the wane.
30407. Cygnus X-1 - 3/21/2002 11:37:50 AM
Man, you have to take off your "I hate Bush" blinders. Are you talking about the same intelligence services and military that can't even find bin Laden? Do you think it's easy to track the shipment of a missle that maybe broken down into many parts? Who says bin Laden has to transport it? Who says North Korea doesn't want to use it themselves? Who says Iraq can't build one?
Ever since you guys embarrasingly lost the "new arms race" argument, you've been grasping at straws and it shows what your true motivations are. Save yourself the humiliation. Just pretend Clinton is still president.
30408. Cygnus X-1 - 3/21/2002 11:39:55 AM
Don't forget, Clinton wanted to give away any missle defense technology we had to the Chinese. Yes, I know it was to avoid an arms race with them, but he still accepted the idea of developing such technology to begin with.
30409. jexster - 3/21/2002 11:51:09 AM
I don't know about Clinton wanting to give NMD tech to the Chicoms...I know Bush made the offer.
I will be happy to go to Lexis for a cite later on.
30410. jexster - 3/21/2002 11:51:32 AM
"From now until November, South’s goal is to tear Simon limb from limb. The Davis campaign has $30 million in the bank, and many (newly filled) drawers full of oppo. “Simon is a garden-variety right-winger,” South says disdainfully, as if the job will be too easy to bother with."
30411. jexster - 3/21/2002 11:53:59 AM
All You Ever Wanted to Know About NMD - Straight Talk from the Center for Defense Information
They don't take money from defense contractors.
30412. Julius Caesar - 3/21/2002 12:02:21 PM
Please describe any actual links that Iraq and North Korea have to terrorism that threatens the United States. Please also describe any missiles that either country has that can reach the United States.
North Korea and Terrorism
NORTH KOREA
North Korea and the Taepo Dong-2 missile
North Korea and Exporting Nuclear
North Korea "believed by some intelligence sources already to have the capability to launch a nuclear missile attack on the U.S."
How Much Plutonium Does North Korea Have?
North Korea Chemical and Biological Weapons
Now, on the plus side, North Korea has not been fingered directly since downing a South Korean airliner.
And they haven't smashed jets into our skyscrapers.
So, there's that.
30413. jexster - 3/21/2002 12:07:57 PM
Julio...
It was Russia that downed the plane but why quibble when I have something to ask on a completely different subject - CU Law.
I was there during Nixon/Ford, you Raygun right?
When I was there it was pretty liberal, something I couldn't really figure, seemed out of step with the main admin. Had a very active Legal Aid program under a guy named Taylor who's a civil rights activist. Recall moans and groans in tort class when Zuckman trucked in Judge, then Prof Noonan from Boalt Hall to talk abortion...
But since, it seems 180 degree turn...
Am I right?
Should I cut the scumbags out of my will?
30414. jexster - 3/21/2002 12:10:02 PM
Shit I can't resist..
The real risk associated with North Korea is that "nobody really knows what is going on there," says freelancer Ishimaru. "Nobody knows how much money goes from Japan to North Korea," adds the Korea Report's Pyon. U.S. policymakers may wish to find out.
Yea before we piss away billions...someone tell the Clueless One to get a clue
30415. thoughtful - 3/21/2002 12:11:06 PM
So $70 million later, they still can't pin a thing on the clinton's about whitewater...their lawyer calls it the most expensive exoneration in history. That didn't stop them from taking a final jab at hillary though saying they lied.
here
30416. jexster - 3/21/2002 12:15:32 PM
The Ballistic Missile Threat
By Colonel Daniel Smith, USA (Ret.)
Chief of Research CDI
30417. Julius Caesar - 3/21/2002 12:15:42 PM
Jexster
When I was there (Bush/Clinton), the faculty - like most faculties - was liberal, but so much of law school is akin to trade school, it wasn't anything approaching West coast liberalism. Since no one gives up their posts, I assume the tenured faculty is still liberal (Zuckman and Noone are still there). That said, I actually teach there as an adjunct, so the barometer drops just a bit. And I understand the new dean, Dean Kmiec, is somewhat conservative. At least, I've read him defending military tribunals.
And the Legal Aid program is still the gem of the school.
Have you seen the new building?
As for your will, I'll be nice -- they now charge students $25,000.
'Nuff said.
30418. jexster - 3/21/2002 12:19:26 PM
Really. What course?
Yea I saw it on a visit to DC a few years back....beautiful building, great liberry..maybe next time we can go to Mass in the basement chapel of the Shrine...I like it, don't you?
It was Kimec's appointment that got me thinkin...
My estate and 2.75 will get you a cappucino. Don't get sick without a good insurance plan :(
30419. Julius Caesar - 3/21/2002 12:19:34 PM
In 1987, North Korean agents bombed the South Korean airliner, killing 115.
A brief history:
On 29 November 1987, Korean Airlines flight 858, en route from Europe to Korea via the Middle East, exploded over the Indian Ocean, killing all 115 people on board. Two passengers had left the flight at its last stop, Abu Dhabi on the Persian Gulf. They were stopped by security guards, and both immediately swallowed cyanide. The man, Kim Sung Il, aged 70, died; the woman, Kim Hyon Hui, aged 26, survived.
She was extradited to South Korea, and there confessed. The two were North Korean intelligence agents, and had been given orders "personally written" by Kim Chong Il, President Kim Il Sung's son. The woman had been trained to behave and look Japanese, and the two had left a bottle of liquid explosive (disguised as liquor) and a detonator in a radio in the overhead rack on the aircraft. She said that the attack had been designed to destabilze South Korea during its presidential election campaign, and to increase international nervousness about the forthcoming Olympic Games there. She told a press conference in January 1988 that she had since changed her allegiance, after watching South Korean television, and being driven around Seoul by her interrogators.
30420. Julius Caesar - 3/21/2002 12:20:09 PM
Jexster
Employment Law.
30421. jexster - 3/21/2002 12:20:20 PM
Come to think of it..now I have two reasons ....YOU and Kimec...
30422. jexster - 3/21/2002 12:21:12 PM
Ooo..wrongful termination...too much emotional horseshit
30423. Julius Caesar - 3/21/2002 12:22:31 PM
As for the school, it is beautiful. Especially given the elementary school surroundings we had.
30424. wonkers2 - 3/21/2002 12:43:03 PM
SECRETARY OF STATE ROVE
Treasury Sec. Paul O'Neill is taking some heat because his oo-the-record criticism of his boss's recent decision to impose 30% steel tariffs made it into print. But if you look at the fallout since that decision, we'd say this might be Mr. O'Neill's finest hour.
The nasty truth is that Mr. Bush has unleashed the world's protectionist hounds, and just as he's about to preach the virtues of free trade on a trip to Latin America. Russia has banned imports of American poultry using steel as an excuse. The EU is hopping mad, and considering new leives on some $2 billion of US goods including citrus, which could hurt Mr. Bush in key states like Florida. Brazil is saber-rattling about the future of his prized Free Trade Area of the Americas....
This all the consequence of Mr. Bush's decision to let Karl Rove play Secretary of State for a day. Over objections from Colin Powell and the Bush economic team, the White House political Svengali convinced the Prez the payoff from grateful steelworkers in this year's conbressional elections and in 2004 were worth the risks. Then, conveniently, the tariffs expire.
etc, etc. [From lead editorial in today's Wall Street Journal.]
30425. Cygnus X-1 - 3/21/2002 1:15:52 PM
From the CDI:
If the rogue state hypothesis were not enough, the existence of even loosely affiliated sub-national actors hostile to U.S. dominance elevates the worry-factor exponentially. Yet against this threat an NMD system would be useless since the least likely mode of attack by terrorists is via an ICBM.
Oh, well that ends the debate. The CDI says so. Well, it sounds like famous last words to me. You know, kinda like "terrorists will never hit the United States because our security is so tight".
30426. Wombat - 3/21/2002 1:41:08 PM
Well, if the Heritage Foundation and the Weekly Standard say so...not that they are disinterested or objective, or anything. The idea of spending tons of money on the least likely scenario, while doing things like cutting back on a program that funds the Russian dismantling of its nukes and control of their warheads, strikes me as both stupid and a waste of finite resources.
I don't think anyone took the belief that terrorists "will never hit the United States because security is so tight," rather that there are so many potential American targets outside the United States, and the inarguable fact that there just has not beem many terrorist attacks inside the United States, made many complacent.
30427. Julius Caesar - 3/21/2002 1:53:53 PM
Wombat
The links ran the gamut of the ideological spectrum. For you to glom on to as thin a reed as you have in response demonstrates that your request was not in good faith. Perhaps your future queries should contain the disclaimer Rhetorical Question - PLEASE use caution in upsetting my presumptions.
30428. concerned - 3/21/2002 1:54:55 PM
Some Michael Moore-on hypocrisy deflated
30429. concerned - 3/21/2002 2:09:46 PM
From BSNN: Top Democrat Robert Byrd receives KKK Lifetime Achievement Award.
Senator Robert Byrd Receives KKK Lifetime Achievement Award
By N. B. Forrest
HANGMAN'S GROVE, WEST VIRGINIA — Billy Bob Cracker, President and CEO of the Klu Klux Klan (KKK), has chosen Senator Robert Byrd (D-Wva.) as this year’s recipient of the KKK’s Lifetime Achievement Award. The award was presented at the 133rd Annual KKK Transparent Image Awards, taped last night and scheduled to air April 1st (8:00 p.m. ET) on FOX.
“The Lifetime Achievement Award reflects individuals at the pinnacle of their respective fields who’ve made significant contributions to the success of the KKK," Cracker said. "Senator Byrd exemplifies this prestigious award; no living person has worked as hard as he has to keep the black man dependant on, and subservient to, the white man. Not to mention his outstanding work against Jews and Catholics.”
30430. concerned - 3/21/2002 2:10:03 PM
Senator Byrd’s legislative accomplishments, as well as his ascension as the only KKK alumnus to serve as the Majority Leader of the US Senate, a post he served in for six years (1977-80, 1987-88), made him an obvious choice for this year’s Lifetime Achievement Award. “This distinction, awarded to those who advance the ideals of the KKK through personal achievement and service to all people of Caucasian and protestant heritage, accurately describes the contributions Senator Byrd has made to our racially pure organization,” Cracker said.
Born in 1917 in North Wilkesboro, North Carolina, Robert Byrd was orphaned when his mother was killed in a tragic sausage making accident. Taken to West Virginia by his Auntie Belham and Uncle Peduncle, the future KKK Lifetime Achievement recipient grew up mastering life's early lessons, like learning the proper way to tie a noose. Unable to receive a taxpayer-funded college education, Senator Byrd sought to make a buck wherever he found an opportunity—pumping gas at a filling station, working as a white sheet salesman, and then becoming a “Kleagle” in the Klu Klux Klan—picking up new skills as he advanced. One of those skills—recruiting other white, protestant bigots for the KKK—was in demand at the time, and he worked during the war years of the early 1940’s building the rank and file of the Klan.
After WWII came to an end, Byrd had a vision of what his state and nation should be: a bastion of ignorant, inbred, government-subsidized, white racists. In 1946, in his first attempt at elected office, he was elected to the West Virginia House of Delegates. After that he went on to serve in the US House of Representatives and the US Senate. He has served longer in the United States Senate than anyone else in West Virginia's history, an indication of the moral depravity and lack of work ethic of most West Virginians.
30431. concerned - 3/21/2002 2:10:19 PM
In presenting the award to Senator Byrd, Billy Bob Cracker remarked, “Senator Byrd is living proof that being a member of the KKK is not an insurmountable obstacle, so long as you are resolved to push forward against decency and realize your dreams. He filibustered the 1964 Civil Rights Act. He opposed the nominations of the only Negro justices of the Supreme Court. And he fought valiantly against integrating the military when he wrote, ‘I vow never to fight with a Negro by my side. Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds.’ That is why I am honored to salute Senator Robert Byrd as this year’s KKK Lifetime Achievement Award recipient.”
In accepting the award, Byrd reflected on his years serving the interests of Klan members and remarked, "The Klan is needed today as never before and I am anxious to see its rebirth in every state in the Union."
Last year's KKK Lifetime Achievement Award went to Bill Clinton. The KKK Transparent Image Awards are presented each year to those who strive to deny meaningful opportunities for, and inflict insurmountable harm on, African Americans, Jews, and all other "race mongrels." Past recipients have included David Duke, Barbara Boxer, Jesse Jackson, Michael Jackson, and Martha Stewart.
30432. Julius Caesar - 3/21/2002 2:17:27 PM
Get nuclear inspectors into North Korea now
30433. Julius Caesar - 3/21/2002 2:21:07 PM
Implications of the Taepo Dong-2
The memorandum notes, for example, that the first and second stages performed to North Korean expectations, providing what amounts to a successful flight test of a two-stage Taepo Dong 1 medium-range missile. With an ability to deliver several hundred-kilogram payloads about two thousand kilometers, the system poses a threat to US allies and interests in the region.
We also assess that after the North Koreans resolve some important technical issues, including assessing why the third stage failed, they would be able to use the three-stage configuration as a ballistic missile, albeit with great inaccuracy, to deliver small payloads to ICBM ranges; that is, ranges in excess of 5,500 km—the smaller the payload, the longer the range.
30434. jexster - 3/21/2002 3:04:58 PM
Lets see its Wednesday so must be time for a change of tilt in the ongoing saga of feckless flip-flop Bush Bumblefucks Do Baghdad
Dimwit "Disappointed" With Arafat
These idiots couldn't find their way to the WC without a map.
30435. Cygnus X-1 - 3/21/2002 3:09:30 PM
"It would be good if no one paid attention to those who criticize Bush..."
- Mikhail Gorbachev
30436. concerned - 3/21/2002 4:34:02 PM
It's like Gorby could directly see whatever's in jexster's chest cavity.
30437. OhioSTOPAS - 3/21/2002 4:37:32 PM
You two are so entertaining. Do you know who the "those" are in that quote you love so much? And what it is that "those" are critizing President Bush about?
30438. concerned - 3/21/2002 4:42:11 PM
Re. 30437 -
Your ideological fellow traveler jexster criticizes GWB about everything, so I'm covered, regardless.
30439. Cygnus X-1 - 3/21/2002 5:14:47 PM
And you know, when Gorby said Clinton was a "freshman in foreign politics", that's really not a terrible criticism. After all, a good president knows how to pick good advisors. In Clinton's case, his secretary of state was a woman. Doesn't that display of sensitive enlightenment count for something?
Anyhow, so he squandered the 10 years after the Cold War. He was still a loveable rogue.
30440. Cellar Door - 3/21/2002 5:28:21 PM
"It's like Gorby could directly see whatever's in jexster's chest cavity."
Put down the flame-thrower, connie. You're no Sigourney Weaver.
30441. OhioSTOPAS - 3/21/2002 5:31:59 PM
Fair enough criticism.
Now, what has President Bush done instead to create a new, post Cold-War world order?
(Other than appointing a penis-equipped Secretary of State.)
30442. wonkers2 - 3/21/2002 5:35:54 PM
JC Was it a Long Taepo Dong or a Short Taepo Dong? Maybe we should consult Justice Thomas, the Supreme Court's resident expert on the subject.
30443. Julius Caesar - 3/21/2002 5:42:49 PM
ba-dum-bump
30444. jexster - 3/21/2002 7:20:38 PM
off topic JC...noone isn't Harvey's propaganda man....Judge Noonan, on the 9th Cir bench, Raygun appointee...very articulate attack on Roe I thought...he is a moderate social justice type type Catholic very bright
30445. jexster - 3/21/2002 7:23:31 PM
Cyg didn't you read what the Red Streaked Red said about our Imbecile Auto-pluto-crat just the other day?
Gorby is almost as big a hypocrite as GWB, but at least 100% of his brain works not 43%
30446. jexster - 3/21/2002 7:25:22 PM
Coincidence or Medical Miracle?:
[AP]Rochester MN - The discovery that Bush's resting heart rate is 43 has led some observers to speculate that this is the first time we've had a president with a heart rate that matches his IQ.
30447. jexster - 3/21/2002 7:26:03 PM
ba-da-bing
30448. jexster - 3/21/2002 7:26:33 PM
toys verdamnt
30449. jexster - 3/21/2002 7:27:44 PM
Cllr...TDaschole MAY BE sigourney weaver...
30450. jexster - 3/21/2002 7:32:13 PM
TDaschole...I approve of somethings Bush has done...the education bill kinda if he'd properly funded it...I like his communtarian talk if he can the silly shit sermons..what else..what else...
OH yeah!
I first saw him on ESPN Sunday night baseball when they opened the Ranger's ballyard...and a couple of times thereafter...this was b4 I learned the shady circumstances surroundign his ownership mind you...but I was favorably impressed..that corn pone works for a baseball exec in a Ft Worth Ballpark....hot dog vendor..used car salesman..Grand Ole Opry stand up comic
30451. jexster - 3/21/2002 9:03:47 PM
"The recently released tapes of conversations held in the Nixon White House contain several exchanges that reveal the former president's anti-gay views.
As reported in Thursday's Washington Post, the tapes also include Richard M. Nixon's uncensored, negative remarks about Jews, psychiatrists and Catholics.
In a taped session with his aides, H.R. "Bob" Haldeman and John Erlichman on May 13, 1971, Nixon remarks that Northern California has become so "faggy" that "I don't want to shake hands with anybody from San Francisco."
Moments later, he continued: "You know what happened to the Greeks. Homosexuality destroyed them. Sure, Aristotle was a homo, we all know that, so was Socrates."
He believed ancient Rome suffered a similar fate. "Do you know what happened to the Romans? The last six Roman emperors were fags."
Toward the end of his rambling monologue, President Nixon sums up his point: "You see, homosexuality, dope, uh, immorality in general: These are the enemies of strong societies. That's why the Communists and left-wingers are pushing it. They're trying to destroy us."
The tapes have also garnered media attention for revealing anti-Semitic remarks made by Rev. Billy Graham in conversation with the former president. Graham has since apologized for his comments. "
30452. jexster - 3/21/2002 9:07:50 PM
On a Comparative Political Theory final in undergrad, I didn't choose to answer the question to the effect "The Nixon Administration has demonstrated itself to share many elements of Nazi political doctrine. Discuss."
I thought it was to stoopid to waste my time on even though I was second to none hating the slimeball.
But Jews, Commies, Catholics, fags undermining morals....straight out of Goebbels
30453. Cygnus X-1 - 3/21/2002 9:27:30 PM
Ohio, re 30441:
Now, what has President Bush done instead to create a new, post Cold-War world order?
Oh, I don't know, how about kicked some diaper-head ass, revealed Arafat for what he is, withdrew from the ABM treaty with barely a peep from Russia, and created a new relationship with Russia where we're practically allies.
I bet there are a bunch of camels and empty tents that are glad Clinton is no longer president.
30454. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 3/21/2002 9:57:58 PM
What a crock!
30455. jexster - 3/22/2002 2:00:56 AM
Like a Mako Shark
Received a voice mail message from the Gray Davis campaign inviting me to an event in Oakland where Da Guvnah will appear with Magic Johnson "for a special announcement"
Another item
This week's local gay paper reports that Davis will establish a special committee to investigate means and methods for incorporating Vermont's experience into an expansion of California's Civil Union legislation...
Garry South is swimming in the water waiting for the Half-Wit-in-Chief to make his next appearance in the Land of 55 Electoral Votes....
The last time the Imbecile visited, Davis cut his dick off
Next - his balls.
30456. jexster - 3/22/2002 3:18:00 AM
Tin soldiers and Nixon coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
Four dead in Ohio.
Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are gunning us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her
And found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?
Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are gunning us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her
And found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?
Tin soldiers and Nixon coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
Four dead in Ohio.
30457. Cygnus X-1 - 3/22/2002 11:16:25 AM
jexster, that song is about a Darwin Award, right?
30458. jexster - 3/22/2002 12:34:48 PM
When logic and proportion
Have fallen softly dead,
And the White Knight is talking backwards
And the Red Queen's "off with her head!"
Remember what the dormouse said:
"Feed your head. Feed your head. Feed your head
30459. jexster - 3/22/2002 12:39:05 PM
Senate Democrats yesterday beat back a Republican effort to scuttle a provision of their energy bill that would require utilities to produce significantly more electricity from wind, solar, geothermal and other renewable sources of power
TDaschole Flattens King's Krony Kapitalists 58-40
30460. jexster - 3/22/2002 12:46:17 PM
30461. jexster - 3/22/2002 12:53:55 PM
The Bush administration yesterday asked Congress for an additional $27.1 billion for military, domestic security and other needs stemming from the Sept. 11 attacks, an indication that the counterterrorism war at home and abroad is costing more than anticipated.
The request for additional funding had been expected, but the size of the request was significantly larger than the administration's early estimates of about $15 billion for such a package.
"I know it's a lot of money, my request. But let me just tell you this -- I want to remind you all, we fight for freedom."
The only danger to my freedom that I see comes from 1600 Penn Ave....
Fuzzy Math Strikes Again - Did the Retreating Clintonistas Steal All the EOB Calculators?
30462. jexster - 3/22/2002 1:15:13 PM
- Bush Calls for Additional Taxcuts for Rich
-* Bush Lays Down Tough Terms for Aid to Poor
30463. jexster - 3/22/2002 1:16:35 PM
- Bush Refuses to Make Industry Pay for Toxic Cleanups, Taxpayers to Bear Burden But Funds Insufficient
30464. Cygnus X-1 - 3/22/2002 1:27:30 PM
"It would be good if no one paid attention to those who criticize Bush..."
- Mikhail Gorbachev
30465. jexster - 3/22/2002 1:45:01 PM
"Above all else confusion reigns
And though I ask no-one explains
My eunuch friend has been and gone
He said that I must soldier on
And though the Ferris wheel spins round
my tongue it seems has run aground
and croaks as my befuddled brain
shines on brightly, quite insane " - Keith Reid
30466. jexster - 3/22/2002 1:47:49 PM
'All hands on deck, we've run afloat!' I heard the captain cry
'Explore the ship, replace the cook: let no one leave alive!'
Across the straits, around the Horn: how far can sailors fly?
A twisted path, our tortured course, and no one left alive - Salty Dog, K. Reid
30467. jexster - 3/22/2002 1:54:18 PM
It was during the summer of 2000 that Peggy Noonan's adoration of George W. Bush began in earnest. The GOP candidate, she wrote in her Wall Street Journal column, "seems transparently a good person, a genuine fellow who isn't hidden or crafty or sneaky or mean, a person of appropriate modesty." Over the next year or so, she went on to call him "respectful, moderate, commonsensical, courteous," and "a modest man of faith." She has seen in him "dignity" and "a kind of joshy gravitas." And this was before September 11. Since then, he has risen in her estimation. The president has "a new weight, a new gravity, a new physical and moral comfort." He possesses "a sharp and intelligent instinct, an inner shrewdness." He is "emotionally and intellectually mature."
Sweet Nothing - Peggy Noonan's Shallow Punditry
30468. jexster - 3/22/2002 1:55:12 PM
Next month Noonan Has Orgasm
30469. CalGal - 3/22/2002 7:54:50 PM
Can There Be a Decent Left?
Great reading; I highly recommend it.
30470. Cellar Door - 3/22/2002 9:38:47 PM
I don't. Fuzzy thinking all the way. So they want to vote Republican? Go right ahead.
30471. Cellar Door - 3/22/2002 9:39:23 PM
I don't know what "Left" these clowns are whining about.
30472. jexster - 3/22/2002 10:00:32 PM
Bush the Proetectionist is at it again.
This time its the US timber industry sloppin and you be payin as he bitch slaps Canada.
If you want free trade - vote Democratic
30473. jexster - 3/22/2002 10:28:01 PM
Deep Farts - Pointless Prattle
"We've got pockets of persistent poverty in our society, which I refuse to declare defeat—I mean, I refuse to allow them to continue on. And so one of the things that we're trying to do is to encourage a faith-based initiative to spread its wings all across America, to be able to capture this great compassionate spirit."
30474. joezan - 3/23/2002 8:26:58 AM
Oh, brother...
Carny connection nails Clintons' white trash image.
Pair pardoned by Clinton worked with
brother-in-law
Couple convicted in 1982 by Mobile jury had paid Tony Rodham a consulting fee, but it's not clear what he did for them
WASHINGTON -- Around the same time that they were chasing a presidential pardon for their Alabama bank fraud convictions, a well-connected carnival owner and his wife paid the brother-in-law of then-President Clinton more than $240,000 for consulting services, according to a new congressional review.
30475. betty - 3/23/2002 8:46:42 AM
CD,
how much of that article (30469) did you read because I couldn't get past the first sentence i was laughing so hard?
30476. Julius Caesar - 3/23/2002 9:25:05 AM
Cal
The piece was a solid compendium of why the Left is extinct in the foreign policy realm, relegated to angry and counterproductive Naderism. It consists of little more than being unyieldingly anti-establishment, self-hating with regard to American status, power and wealth; and loathing of the military and the corporate structure. Coupled with two decades of being out of the game (the last hurrah for the Left with regard to American foreign policy was the nuclear freeze and opposition to the Contras) leaves a shell represented by toothless pygmies with the same old slogans. Any American intervention becomes bad because it is, as Chomsky might observe, American and an intervention.
So the program is the same. Intervention, howls of protest, and sustained assault on the methods and means of the effort. The only twist after September 11th was two-fold. First, it brought a few Leftists to Jesus (the image of Americans leaping from an inferno can bring about internal change) and second, it slowed down the inevitable wails of protest from the tenured and the hairy. Why, even jexster was respectful for a week. As it is now, however, his posts are emblematic of the Left's foreign policy view (though his rage is driven by a poor law school education, election 2000 misery and Tourette's of the fingers, as opposed to any definable doctrine) -- whatever is done, if it is done by our military or our leadership, it is evil, incompetent, and imperial.
30477. Julius Caesar - 3/23/2002 9:30:57 AM
30478. joezan - 3/23/2002 9:35:27 AM
Why, even jexster was respectful for a week. As it is now, however, his posts are emblematic of the Left's foreign policy view (though his rage is
driven by a poor law school education, election 2000 misery and Tourette's of the fingers, as opposed to any definable doctrine)
Heeeee-heeeeeeee!
Man, that is beautiful.
30479. wonkers2 - 3/23/2002 9:47:16 AM
An easy man to take lightly "The Soul of George W. Bush" by Bill Keller
30480. CalGal - 3/23/2002 9:48:02 AM
JC,
I think you are saying you liked the piece? What I found timely about it is that I think it is important that the left stay engaged and relevant, no matter how much I disagree with them. I was interested to discover that there were leftists who agree.
30481. wonkers2 - 3/23/2002 10:08:12 AM
"Far left" would be a more accurate term for these people.
30482. jexster - 3/23/2002 10:30:51 AM
though his rage is
driven by a poor law school education, election 2000 misery and Tourette's of the fingers, as opposed to any definable doctrine)
The hallmarks of the hero-worship style are a Manichaean moral sensibility, eloquent prose, and assertion rather than argument..If politics is a struggle between good ideas and bad ideas, a compromise can be found. If it is a struggle between good people and bad people, then absolute victory and absolute defeat are the only options.
The Chait article on Noonan restates, with vastly greater eloquence, something I have been saying for years about Republicans, that their's is vapid, over-hyped argument grounded in personality attack, what I call the "National Enquirer" school of political thought. Its as true here as it is in the pages of the WSJ or that thoroughly disgusting piece on Janet Reno that JC linked.
Trouble is I play both games well. Would though that more of the Republicans here and outside could even discuss policy without looking like fucking morons.
30483. joezan - 3/23/2002 10:36:00 AM
Oh please.
Personality my ass.
The Reno piece clearly defines her as an out of touch mutant.
30484. joezan - 3/23/2002 10:47:34 AM
...but let's all feel sorry for her because she has Parkinson's.
In fact, doesn't she deserve the benefit of the doubt?
Shouldn't the State of Florida have been compelled to provide transportation and incentives so that campaign events that were not "efforted" were guaranteed to be more "peopled"?
I mean, this has got to be covered somewhere in ADA, right?
30485. Julius Caesar - 3/23/2002 10:54:37 AM
Actually, joe, jex, you're both off on the Labash piece, which was a great mix of the reportorial and the humorous. Reno's campaign is in trouble. When she announced, there were those Republicans who were pleased (myself included) because we feared that Peterson was more formidable and Reno was not well-suited to a tough campaign. Labash confirms a great deal. Reno's staff is green. Her style is problematic. Her groundwork is inexcusable. All of which was delivered in a manner that was not to destroy or smear her. If anything, it might help her if she retained an ability to think critically with regard to her own campaign. And she does, and always will, have money.
But what makies the piece great reading is that while it informs, it also makes you laugh. And in many ways, it was kind of sad.
Reno did not come off as a mutant. She came off as singularly ill-prepared for the flesh-pressing duties undertaken by a Fred Thompson (who also drove across Tennessee in a pick up) or "Walkin'" Lawton Chiles, the Florida pol who walked the state.
For jex to find such an inoffensive piece disgusting pretty much makes my point as to the bile that roils in his belly, and, by extension, the reflexive criticism of the American Left. It disgusts jex, because it must, because it reveals unflattering things about someone who is not a Republican. Now, a normal person may have any number of reactions to the Labash piece. But it is as if you are given a sip of a new soda on the street, with four choices:
a) I love it
b) I like it
c) It's okay
d) I don't like it.
A jexster, in his undying assault on all things carbonated, crosses out his choices and writes this soda is the liquid equivalent of the slaughter of millions.
As I said, jex is useful in many ways: Any American intervention becomes bad because it is, as Chomsky might observe, American and an intervention.
30486. joezan - 3/23/2002 11:02:11 AM
JC:
Eh.
Clearly, the intent of the piece is as you describe. It is not intended as a smear, and Labash was obviously uncomfortable about revealing some of the more pathetic aspects of the campaign (which kind of makes me wonder what he isn't saying).
IMO, the net effect is that she comes off as an out-of-touch mutant.
30487. Julius Caesar - 3/23/2002 11:04:30 AM
Fair enough, especially given that most politicians strike me as mutated in some form or fashion.
Have a good Saturday, all.
30488. jexster - 3/23/2002 11:05:54 AM
Nice try JC. You prove my point by reading into the WS article something that is not there.
Its a vile and disgusting piece, bereft of any substance. But keep up the good work.
I have read numerous whack job articles from the left. I cannot abide Chomsky any more than Noonan. But the fact is, you can scour the pages of American Prospect, the Nation etc and you will not find a single column remotely like what Chait indicts or what the WS published.
And these are the intellectual engines of the far right. How vapid they are.
30489. Cellar Door - 3/23/2002 11:10:05 AM
Chomsky wupped Hitchens ass!
No surprise there. Thanks for the link, Julius.
30490. jexster - 3/23/2002 11:16:50 AM
Someone, perhaps it was Chait, noticed that the first thing the Conintern does with an adversary is demonize him. Concerned's Thomas Daschole is but a variant of a moniker Limbaugh coined as is WH Rapist.
Now the Weekly Standard aims at a higher class audience but its slime is nonetheless foul for it...
30491. jexster - 3/23/2002 11:17:23 AM
vile
30492. jexster - 3/23/2002 11:20:52 AM
What Mike Kinsely said of the WSJ editorial page, can be said of Matt Drudge, the Weekly Standard, the National Review, the news pages of the Washington Times...in short the entire Conintern
If you're not careful, you can squander an entire journalistic career swatting flies from the Wall Street Journal editorial page.
The flies swarming around the feces
30493. jexster - 3/23/2002 11:25:28 AM
Now for some DEEP thought..
Reflecting on the Prismatic Presidency of 'The Natural' (NyT Book Review of Joel Klein's Latest)
30494. joezan - 3/23/2002 11:26:00 AM
jex:
Very touching, your outrage at Labash's observations of the painfully obvious.
And very rich, coming from the guy who scoured the internet for every stupid pretzel joke after the Bush incident, and who prays daily for another Cheney coronary event.
30495. Julius Caesar - 3/23/2002 11:26:21 AM
jexster
Your sensitivity, and I do mappreciate it, cannot change the fact that Reno's campaign is in trouble, her staff is green, her execution is sloppy, she has a cold personal appeal, and the Florida Democratic establishment is unhappy with her.
If you can ignore these facts by lamenting a humorous Labash piece that, yes, works on great material given him in the Olympian-sized Reno, have at it. I'm enjoying your newly found sense of outrage and decorum.
But Will Ferrell's parodies (be they of Reno or Bush) are funny for a reason.
30496. jexster - 3/23/2002 11:29:01 AM
How now! how now, chop-logic! What is this?
‘Proud,’ and ‘I thank you,’ and ‘I thank you not;’
And yet ‘not proud;’ mistress minion, you, 160
Thank me no thankings, nor proud me no prouds,
But fettle your fine joints ’gainst Thursday next,
To go with Paris to Saint Peter’s church,
Or I will drag thee on a hurdle thither. 164
Out, you green-sickness carrion! out, you baggage!
You tallow face! short person...
Saturday Night Live (Don't Mess With Reno) and political punditry are two different things...How now little man
30497. Julius Caesar - 3/23/2002 11:30:28 AM
cross-post, joe
But perhaps we should take confession with jexster, now that he has foresworn slime of the Reno timbered backwards stripe.
An early cut actually had Labash writing Reno timbered backwards and an Ocala woman remarking, Da' Moron! Krusty Caper Krustified by Krustacean!
Apparently, the Standard felt the quote too colorful.
30498. Julius Caesar - 3/23/2002 11:34:49 AM
Jexster
I'll await your denunciation of a humorous piece on a Republican. Immediately after you link it.
Now, have a nice Saturday, you fatuous hack. Don't fall down and go timber.
30499. jexster - 3/23/2002 11:49:21 AM
Tbe vile and vapid heart of GOP "intellectuals"...
It was Chris Mooney I was thinking of above, and not to worry JC, when I begin my job as Senior Editor of the New Republic, I won't be writing about Krusty's Kardiac problems....
Meanwhile, I must content myself with swatting flies and short people
The producers who brought you Doggygate and the brouhaha over Al Gore's alleged claim that he invented the Internet are at work on a brand new project: the destruction of Democratic Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle.
Comments from a recent discussion thread on the right wing website FreeRepublic.com demonstrate the budding smear efforts: "Please help me flesh out various scandals that Daschle is involved in," writes one contributor. "There is something about his wife's employment I think that might be a conflict of interest. Maybe not," suggests another. (Daschle's wife, Linda, is a transportation lobbyist for the firm Baker, Donelson, Bearman & Caldwell.)
"Puff Daschle"
This is Rush Limbaugh's moniker for the South Dakota senator; Limbaugh, wit that he is, also came up with "'Little Dick' Gephardt."
Mt. Rushmore: Tom Daschle's Buddhist Temple
But the right doesn't just have nicknames for Daschle; it has scandal narratives-in-progress, stories that can be made out to seem shady when told the right way -- thus giving the impression that the Senate majority leader has an inclination for dirty dealings. So far, the most prominent of these involves a 1997 trip to the top of Mt. Rushmore for roughly 100 Daschle friends, supporters and campaign contributors. Regular tourists aren't allowed to make the climb, but the park's superintendent escorted Daschle's gang -- suggesting a special favor for donors.
And on and on...the smear machine marches into gutter after filthier guttter they go...lost in their Deep Thoughts.
30500. jexster - 3/23/2002 11:49:47 AM
Don't go away mad little man!
30501. jexster - 3/23/2002 11:52:46 AM
Last year, in a revealing column, National Review founder William F. Buckley referred to an "off-the-record meeting of 20 right-wing editors, writers and diverse others . . . to inquire how enthusiastically should American conservatives labor for the election of George W. Bush." Are conservative pundits currently strategizing about ways of smearing Tom Daschle? Who knows. What's clear, though, is that quite a lot of them are working hard to jack up his negative ratings -- and that their constituents, who listen to Rush Limbaugh and post on FreeRepublic.com, are hungry for more
30502. jexster - 3/23/2002 1:47:46 PM
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
March 20, 2002
Lieberman Seeks Answers From Ridge On Homeland Security Improvements
Letter Asks About National Strategy; Improved Communications, Coordination Between Agencies
And what is his counterpart in the GOP House doing now?
Enron maybe?
Homeland security maybe?
No PardonGate...which just proves my point..shit flows downhill from the Olympian Heights of the Weekly Standard and other Conintern factories of slime, to the gutters where Dan Burton lives.
How now chop logic!
30503. Cellar Door - 3/23/2002 3:09:59 PM
David Brock in today's USA Today.
30504. robertjayb - 3/23/2002 4:56:20 PM
Thanks for the link, Cellar.
Here is The Nation's review of David Brock's Blinded by the Right...
30505. Julius Caesar - 3/23/2002 5:19:12 PM
From The Nation
This brings us to the book's second vital point about the winger psyche. The need to belong--and, specifically, to belong to a self-styled minority that felt itself embattled, thumbing its nose at the larger, contaminated culture--is a constant motif of Blinded by the Right, and it becomes clear over the course of the book that it was this convulsed emotional state, even more than ideology, that was, and I suppose still is, the real binding glue among the right.
Thus, Brock's need to belong, which Alexander Cockburn correctly pinpoints as what propulses him through life and lie as a leitmotif, is transposed to conservatives. Even conservatives who would already belong to the most powerful hidden conspiracy in the United States.
Neat trick, huh?
30506. Julius Caesar - 3/23/2002 5:19:34 PM
Brock knew intuitively what he was supposed to do with this material, and it wasn't journalism. It was character assassination, and not only of Hill. . . .
Brock was put on to Glen Hartley and Lynn Chu, the literary agents of choice for the hard right. . . .
By then, Brock was starting to develop a conscience.
It being necessary to rehabilitate Brock in order to rely on the anti-conservative allegations of his present incarnataion (Laura Ingraham owns no books! Gasp!) and Voila!, he is Laurence Harvey in The Manchuran Candidate
Brock was 6 months away from a celebrity boxing match. But he worked hard, and now, he again belongs.
Best, whereas Brock once was lost and now he is found, the evidence lies in writing [that] has about it the tenor of veracity and candor.
Another choice observation: In 1994, Jill Abramson and Jane Mayer's book on the Thomas-Hill matter, Strange Justice, had hit the stands. It proved to everyone in the world but hard-shell rightists that Thomas was indeed a ravenous porn enthusiast and that Hill, in all likelihood, was the truthful one.
Which, given the things sexual of which Bill Clinton was ravenous and following the logic, makes Paula Jones a paragon of honesty.
No?
30507. Cellar Door - 3/23/2002 5:28:32 PM
No, Julius.
Though I do like the image of you singing "Amazing Grace."
30508. Cellar Door - 3/23/2002 5:30:05 PM
I await, as always, any categorial refutation of Brock's book.
"He was lying then and he's lying now," just won't do I'm afraid.
For reasons of simple logic alone.
30509. Julius Caesar - 3/23/2002 5:36:22 PM
I'm not sure I can refute a tome of cocktail gossip and angst-ridden "Oh, what have I fucked?". Nor can anyone transform back into minnows the truly big fish - like Judge Silberman and Grover Norquist - Brock is selling. Let's just say he's giving you a star map, and the biggest house on his route once was owned by Jim Backus, until he sold it to Tim Conway.
But I'm guessing Laura Ingraham owns a book. Probably The Real Anita Hill.
30510. Julius Caesar - 3/23/2002 5:38:15 PM
As for the logic, Cellar, if Thomas likes porn, and thus, it means he sexually harassed Hill (as is stated by the reviewer in The Nation) then if Clinton fucks around, it certainly means he harassed Jones.
30511. Julius Caesar - 3/23/2002 5:50:44 PM
Binded By the Right Review from The Washington Post
And if he has, is he sincere about it? "I lost my soul," he laments; now, he maintains, he's found his conscience. One thing's for sure: he's found a new -- and well-dressed -- social circle. Toward book's end, born-again Brock attends "the annual black-tie dinner" of a gay-rights lobbying group, where he basks in the glow of "a graceful poem by Maya Angelou, and a heartfelt speech by Vice President Al Gore." Remembering that exactly four years earlier he'd been at a Christian Coalition conference, he declares that he feels "happy, finally, to be in the right place, both morally and emotionally."
He he he he.
30512. Julius Caesar - 3/23/2002 5:54:29 PM
I want to join this conspiracy, by the way. I want to ride the Death Star and meet the Emperor de Borchagrave.
30513. Cellar Door - 3/23/2002 6:05:15 PM
"I'm not sure I can refute a tome of cocktail gossip and angst-ridden "Oh, what have I fucked?"."
Then what are you doing posint about "American Politics"?
And we all know who wrote that "Washington Post" review, don't we Julius?
Bruce Crumbs Off the Table Bawer. And why do you suppose the book review editor failed to mention that Bawer is referred to in the text, hmm?
I don't suppose I need to link "Media Whores Online" about this do I?
30514. Cellar Door - 3/23/2002 6:07:23 PM
Bruce Bawer is UNAMERICAN!
He had to travel all the way to Holland to find himself a Leather Master to beat the living shit out of him.
This is a grave slur on American Sadists at a time of National Crisis.
30515. Cellar Door - 3/23/2002 6:08:26 PM
30516. Julius Caesar - 3/23/2002 6:11:09 PM
Cellar
I assume a member of the vast right wing conspiracy wrote thePost review, albeit a well-dressed one.
It's good to know the conspiracy bagged The Washington Post. Next up, the Ewoks.
Remember, in three years, when Brock is trying desperately to get back on the Larry Kudlow hour, and he writes a memoir announcing that his homosexuality was cured by Pentecostalists, I'll be here so you can cry on my shoulder.
The Empire is vast and cruel, Cellar, but we do have a heart.
30517. Cellar Door - 3/23/2002 6:16:30 PM
LOL!
The conspiracy can't "bag" itself, Julius. The Washington Post aka The Beltway Pravda embraced the Clinton-is-the-greatest-criminal-of-all-time-and-I-have-the-cum-stained-dress-to-prove-itposition from Moment One.
Need I quote Sally Quinn once more?
30518. jexster - 3/23/2002 7:07:02 PM
The Facts Surrounding the Downing of KAL Flight 007 - North Korea Had No Involvement
And indeed contrary to Raygunite hysteria, it wasn't even an intentional act of the Soviet government
Based on Hersch, Seymour (1986)The Target Is Destroyed: What Really Happened to Flight 007 & What America Knew About It and two articles in the NyT reporting based on declassified Soviet documents:
º Before takeoff the KAL captain programmed the INS incorrectly by setting the location of Anchorage at 139W instead of 119W
º The error resulted in the INS believing that the jet had taken off 300 mi east of Anchorage
º The error put the plane on a course followed by US reconnaissance aircraft that routinely probed the borders of the USSR
º Had the captain not gone back to the first class cabin to hobnob with hotshots, he could have caught the mistake
º The error caused the plane to enter Soviet airspace at 3:12 am where it was intercepted by Lt. Col Osipovich’s SU-15
º The Col told ground control that the plane bore landing lights
º Ground control was confused and doubted that the aircraft could be military because of the landing lights
º Osipovich failed to report that he also saw “Boeing 747” markings because, he later testified, “they never asked me”
º Osipovich thought he had a spy plane and would soon receive his Order of Hero of the USSR
º He was ordered to force a landing
º He did not use the radio but flashed his light and fired over 500 cannon rounds, useless because they had no tracers
º Receiving no response, he fired two missiles bringing the craft down at 3:26 am
30520. Julius Caesar - 3/23/2002 7:31:23 PM
Jexster
Timely news. What's next?
GENERAL MEADE TO BE REPLACED!
30521. jexster - 3/23/2002 7:53:04 PM
Hey well don't peddle piddle around here and I won't have to swat the flies that swarm around it.
30522. jexster - 3/23/2002 7:56:56 PM
I coincidentally happened across while doing my homework...
¿Mientras tanto, dónde en el infierno es mi caja de seguridad?
30523. Julius Caesar - 3/23/2002 8:01:43 PM
Jexster
What I reported regarding North Korea is irrefutable. You misunderstood, not appreciating that I was referring to KAL 858.
KAL 858
Fair enough. People make mistakes. You make a lot, but that's okay.
But now, to vomit irrlevant chum about KAL 007.
Captain Quint: It shows you rich college boys don't have the sense to admit when you're wrong.
30524. jexster - 3/23/2002 8:09:37 PM
¿Mientras tanto, dónde en el infierno es mi caja de seguridad?
30525. Julius Caesar - 3/23/2002 8:11:32 PM
I like to live een Amellica. Evellything free in Amellica.
Adios, pistolero.
30526. jexster - 3/23/2002 8:11:40 PM
El eje de la mal es tan insensato
30527. jexster - 3/23/2002 8:13:08 PM
No its..."what do you think this is? this is AMEREEEKA you Argentine degenerate" Pauli, Pope of GV
Buenos noches.
30528. Cellar Door - 3/23/2002 9:29:32 PM
I have this sudden vision of Julius going on tour in and all-male production of West Side Story
"A boy like that -- he killed your brother,
Forget that boy and find another,
One of your own kind, stick to your oen kind."
30529. jexster - 3/23/2002 10:09:39 PM
She ain't no Sigourney Weaver dat fo sho
30530. OhioSTOPAS - 3/24/2002 7:37:27 AM
Julius Caeser, (Message # 30510):
"As for the logic, Cellar, if Thomas likes porn, and thus, it means he sexually harassed Hill (as is stated by the reviewer in The Nation). . "
But of course the relevance of Thomas's porn-watching was more than merely "He likes sex, so therefore he harassed this woman." Nor does the Nation article make such a logic-challenged contention.
Hill testified that Thomas's offensive conversation included descriptions of porn movies he had watched. It was therefore significant that Thomas had in fact watched such movies.
Surely you know this, Julius.
30531. Julius Caesar - 3/24/2002 10:23:08 AM
Ohio
Then, with your elastic sense of relevance, you would have supported a Rule 35 medical examination of President's Clinton's penis (both erect and flaccid) because Ms. Jones testified that it had certain identifiable features, especially give the fact that the examination would have been probative and was in the context of an ongoing litigation during which the defendant's veracity had been severely compromised (all the more reasons to be liberal in terms of alternative corroboration.
Surely you would be so consistent, Ohio.
Indeed, Thomas testifed that he never discussed pornography in the workplace and refused to answer questions about his private life.
Under your theory of relevance, in the Jones case, after President Clinton denied dropping his drawers in front of Ms. Jones, then denied dropping his drawers in front of other women in the workplace, thereafter, he should be required to answer questions as to his trademark private moves on his off time (i.e., does he like to start with the woman on her knees) in an effort to corroborate Ms. Jones' charges.
30532. Julius Caesar - 3/24/2002 10:27:34 AM
I agreed with Judge Webber Wright that summary judgment should have been granted to President Clinton, and I surely would have agreed with her when she upheld defendants' motions to quash and for protective orders with regard to the fishing expeditions Ohio suggests.
30533. jexster - 3/24/2002 11:15:43 AM
Chaired by former Reagan administration defense secretary Frank Carlucci, The Carlyle Group is a $13 billion private equity firm based just a few blocks away from the White House on Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington.
Its principals include former British Prime Minister John Major, former secretary of state, James A. Baker III, and former chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, Arthur Levitt. Former President George Bush holds the official title of senior advisor to the Carlyle Asia Advisory Board and gives speeches at events.
Carlyle Group cashing in again
Commentary: Military IPOs recall heady Net days CBS.MarketWatch.com
30534. jexster - 3/24/2002 11:16:28 AM
toys
30535. jexster - 3/24/2002 11:17:25 AM
30536. jexster - 3/24/2002 11:22:30 AM
With Congress on its Easter break, it is clear that the elevated status President Bush has achieved as commander in chief of the war on terrorism has so far not produced any comparable gains for his influence on other issues.
This may be of no great consequence to the president, who has made it plain both publicly and privately that he believes his place in history will be defined by the degree of success he achieves in ridding the world of the threat of terrorism.
But it is of importance to his party, which has an agenda of changes it would like to make while it controls the White House, the House of Representatives and 49 seats in the Senate.
Bush's Narrow Mandate
War without end.AMEN.
30537. Cellar Door - 3/24/2002 11:24:18 AM
"Thomas testifed that he never discussed pornography in the workplace"
And was, needless to say, LYING.
"Then, with your elastic sense of relevance, you would have supported a Rule 35 medical examination of President's Clinton's penis (both erect and flaccid) because Ms. Jones testified that it had certain identifiable features"
And we see how far THAT plot got, don't we? Penis examination should be left to the professionals --like myself. Amateurs like Paula are of no use.
I'm sure I posted in here about my sexual experiences with a gentleman whose penis curved as Clinton's was alleged to have, didn't I?
30538. jexster - 3/24/2002 12:23:29 PM
Thomas, as you will recall, was pummeled so brutally by vicious gangs of Democrats and liberals—who accused him of being a right-wing ideologue with a closed mind about abortion rights, among other vicious lies—that he now lies comatose in the Supreme Court, able only to issue reliably right-wing opinions and vote against abortion rights. Kinsley
30539. jexster - 3/24/2002 12:34:29 PM
I guess its less a question of principle than the fact that there are no Jews in Nebraska but once again Chuck Hagel impresses. He refused to join the hundreds of Congressmen in full election year mode in signing a letter urging Cheney not to meet with Arafat.
30540. OhioSTOPAS - 3/24/2002 1:21:04 PM
(Message # 30531) Don't change the subject, Julius. The subject was your intellectual dishonesty.
If you're that eager to discuss President Clinton's penis, maybe I'll discuss it with you some other time.
30541. jexster - 3/24/2002 1:26:44 PM
ENERGY
Questions of Access
Nuclear company's GOP donations raise eyebrows
Cheney task force endorses reactors
Nuclear reactors, Homer Simpson, Krusty Springfield's Favorite Klown - get it Julio?
30542. jexster - 3/24/2002 1:29:47 PM
Maybe a picture would help...
30543. jexster - 3/24/2002 1:33:01 PM
BYLINE: Don vanAtta
Major League Asshole
30544. Julius Caesar - 3/24/2002 1:48:37 PM
Ohio
You were testing my intellectual honesty? It seems I passed, as I applied the same standard to men from both poles and parties, and disucssed their personal poles in the process.
I then tested your intellect, and only that. No matter your intellecual capacity, I presume you come across your views honestly. Perhaps I'm being too generous.
In rebuttal, you
a) ignored my consistency
b) showed an inability to comprehend a basic syllogism
c) ignored rebuttal questions, and
d) ran from your own test like a fatuous hack. Mind you, I'm not calling you a fatuous hack, an alias I reserve for my remedial Spancish student. Rather, I'm just saying that you acted in this particular instance like a fatuous hack.
Stick to brickbats, Ohio, like calling people intellectually dishonest and then, like so many, running away when the adults show up.
30545. CalGal - 3/24/2002 1:54:41 PM
toycheck.
30546. Julius Caesar - 3/24/2002 1:59:56 PM
Gracias, Cal.
30547. CalGal - 3/24/2002 2:07:13 PM
wow, you really mangled.
30548. OhioSTOPAS - 3/24/2002 2:29:06 PM
Do we have to recap, Julius?
You said that the fact (if true) that then-Judge Thomas liked porn was as relevant to Anita Hill's allegations as the fact (unquestionably true) that then-Governor Clinton liked sex was relevant to Paula Jones's allegations.
That's a plausible statement only to a reader who doesn't know the specifics of Hill's allegations and what Thomas's alleged fondness for porn had to do with them, but a stupid statement if one knows those specifics. Since I don't think you're uninformed, and I know you're not stupid, I think you were being intellectually dishonest in offering that false analogy.
Your reply came up with a different, more on-target analogy: whether the shape of Clinton's penis was relevant to the truth of Jones's allegation, given that she gave (Did she? I'm not sure if that was corroroborated or just Drudgery) a physical description of it. Of course a conformity of Clinton's penis to Jones's description of it would be relevant, and I never said otherwise.
Your ensuing tirade mixes up relevancy with admissibility. Embarrassing, personal, prejudicial information might be excluded from evidence notwithstanding the fact that it would be relevant to some degree. Again, I never said a viewing of Clinton's penis would not be admissible or a proper subject of discovery, nor did I say that Thomas's (alleged) porn-watching experience should be admissable in a lawsuit merely because it is relevant information. But in any event, these are different issues (a whole platoon of straw men which you then indignantly knock down).
Rather than go through all that, I said "Don't change the subject."
30549. Cellar Door - 3/24/2002 2:32:10 PM
Julius is busy rehearsing his West Side Story numbers, OHIO.
30550. OhioSTOPAS - 3/24/2002 2:37:28 PM
Well, I don't care HOW pretty he feels.
30551. Julius Caesar - 3/24/2002 3:26:22 PM
Ohio
Hill says Thomas talked to her about pornography.
Ergo, in an effort to demonstrate that Thomas indeed did talk to her about pornography, his pornography viewing habits are relevant, because, as the thinking (or what passes for it at The Nation and in Ohio's head) goes, if he watched pornography, then clearly, he must have talked to Hill about it.
Jones says Clinton whipped his dick out in her face and said "Kiss it." Ergo, in an effort to demonstrate that Clinton did in fact whip his dick out in her face, his courting habits are relevant, because, as the thinking (or what passes for it in Ohio's head) goes, if he whipped his dick out in front of others, even those who were waiting in a consensual manner, then clearly, he must have whipped it out in front of Jones.
Seems to me Ohio argues unwittingly for an invasive deposition of the First Lady and all of Clinton's maidens.
Straw-women, all of it, I'm sure, as the only issue Ohio was prepared to engage was my intellectual honesty, not his intellectual capacity.
Regardless, in an effort to show Ohio the makeup of a non-slithering declarative statement: I think the invasions (into Thomas' porno watching and Clinton's come-ons) are irrelevant crapola in both instances.
Of course a conformity of Clinton's penis to Jones's description of it would be relevant, and I never said otherwise.
Ah, so you would have ordered Clinton to undergo a Rule 35 examination, Judge Ohio?
Again, that's a question. In Amellica, we answer them.
30552. Julius Caesar - 3/24/2002 3:33:20 PM
And to be fully intellectually honest, I would have ordered the Rule 35 examination, if requested by the plaintiff. If Jones testifies she saw magical Lucky Charms on Clinton's weiner, and they are there (or they are not), the probative value clearly outweighs the embarassment of the moment, because if she saw his dick and can identify the orange moon and yellow stars, then he is lying, and if she did not (after having sworn otherwise), than she is either lying or so mistaken that her credibility is shot.
But I would not allow questions about Clinton's pre-sexual tune-ups and come-ons no more than I would allow questions about Thomas' porno choices. Too attenuated. The probative value is nil as to the ultimate issue.
30553. Cellar Door - 3/24/2002 3:35:24 PM
And the ultimate issue is?
30554. Julius Caesar - 3/24/2002 3:37:35 PM
In both cases, whether there was sexual harassment.
30555. CalGal - 3/24/2002 3:40:05 PM
But if you would have ordered the whatever, doesn't that mean that anyone could say they saw Lucky Charms on someone's penis and force them to disrobe in front of a judge?
30556. Julius Caesar - 3/24/2002 3:46:15 PM
Cal
Yes. Anyone could. And no. It would not always be ordered because of the prerequisites, the fact of absolute peril to one's suit, the rarity of physical circumstances allowing the charge, and the threat of sanctions if the allegation is frivolous.
So, a judge would read the motion for a Rule 35 medical examination very carefully before ordering the examination. The judge would require an absolute declaration under oath that was not hazy or "maybe I saw" to meet the standard for the intrusion. And if someone was just goofing, hoping there'd be a green crescent where there was none, there suit would be dead-in-the-water and sanctions may well be ordered.
30557. Cellar Door - 3/24/2002 3:49:51 PM
Was Susan Weber Wright wrong to throw out Paula's harrasment suit?
Was Anita Hill wrong not to have instituted a hgarrassment suit?
Was Diane Von Furstenberg wrong for not having invited me to the wedding?
30558. CalGal - 3/24/2002 3:51:20 PM
JC,
But wouldn't the judge have to say that the display of the penis by a governor to an underling was de facto sexual harassment first?
I thought the judge said that even if everything PJ said was true, it wasn't harassment?
30559. Julius Caesar - 3/24/2002 3:55:05 PM
1) No. Even if Jones' allegations were true, while a dick wagging is unpleasant, it is not severe and pervasive as a matter of law and it did not create an abusive working environment that affected her job performance.
2) Hill did not institute a suit. Her sketchy FBI interview was leaked to Nina Totenberg in a last-ditch effort to derail a young conservative (the Left should have settled for the old smoker Bork) and the meat of her allegations were before the committee. Indeed, Hill could not have filed suit, because she waited approximately a decade past when her statute of limitations would have run. Her suit would have been dismissed almost immediately.
3) She's not only wrong, she's evil.
30560. Julius Caesar - 3/24/2002 4:02:12 PM
Cal
No on timing, yes on what the judge said. The judge allowed discovery (i.e., fact gathering, which would include an examination) first, which is why Clinton underwent a deposition. It was only after discovery was completed that the judge ruled that even with all the evidence produced in discovery, Jones could not show sexual harassment as a matter of law.
After discovery closes, you go to dispositive motions, which is where Judge Wright rules.
Now, Clinton moved early to dismiss, but unless you have a legal defense (i.e., statute of limitations), in a case where there are two divergent fact-patterns, it will be very difficult to get a dismissal. I'm sure Bennett said, "Even if this is true, it goes." And I'm sure Jones' lawyers said, "We have a right to fully flesh out the factual scenario."
Additionally, there were other counts - conspiracy and outrage - that had to be litigated.
So the judge unsurprisingly said "Do your fact-gathering and get back to me when it is all wrapped up."
30561. CalGal - 3/24/2002 4:09:46 PM
JC,
But the reason she said Jones couldn't prove sexual harassment was that she suffered no damage, yes?
30562. jexster - 3/24/2002 4:54:05 PM
Cheney: No Arab Leaders Opposed U.S. Action in Iraq
Too much heart medication.
30563. jexster - 3/24/2002 4:57:35 PM
30564. OhioSTOPAS - 3/24/2002 5:10:47 PM
Well, one more time:
Message # 30551 says, "as the thinking (or what passes for it at The Nation and in Ohio's head) goes, if [Clarence Thomas] watched pornography, then clearly, he must have talked to Hill about it."
Again, of course not. Hill testified that Thomas told her about specific gross-out features of pornographic films that he had seen. The relevance of Thomas's porn viewing habits is to corroborate Hill's account of this conversation, since few people watch such pornography. If Thomas in fact watched films such as Hill said he described to her, either (1) she was telling the truth, (2) she was a very lucky guesser, or (3) she was lying, but was prepped by someone with close personal knowledge of Thomas's habits.
Not "if Thomas watched pornography, he must have spoken to Hill about it."
30565. Julius Caesar - 3/24/2002 6:28:13 PM
Well, one more time, in Ohio-think:
"[a]s the thinking (or what passes for it at The Nation and in Ohio's head) goes, if [Clinton] used the 'whip it and kiss it' ploy at any point, then clearly, he must have done it with Jones."
Again, of course not. Jones testified that Clinton used the "whip it and kiss it", clearly a specific move rarely used by the general public. The relevance of Clinton's "whip it and kiss it" move is to corroborate Jones' account of their meeting, since few people have such a "whip it and kiss it" move. If Clinton in fact employed the move, as Jones alleged, on prior occasions, either (1) she was telling the truth, (2) she was a very lucky guesser, or (3) she was lying, but was prepped by someone with close personal knowledge of Clinton's habits.
Not "if [Clinton] used the 'whip and kiss it' ploy at any point, then clearly, he must have done it with Jones."
This, of course, is in Ohiospeak, not Spanglish.
That said, Ohio, you are either dense on the subject or blinkered, as you don't "get it" and in an effort to not "get it", you continue to dodge questions. But I doubt you are consciously intellectually dishonest.
Happy Oscars, everyone.
30566. Cellar Door - 3/24/2002 6:56:19 PM
Julius you know full well that "whip it and kiss" it can't be corraborated the way Thomas' video receipts can.
But that's why you're a lawyer.
30567. wonkers2 - 3/24/2002 7:27:14 PM
Neither one is anybody else's business.
30568. wonkers2 - 3/24/2002 7:30:18 PM
Referring to Monica, not Paula. Sorry; jumped in without reading previous posts.
30569. OhioSTOPAS - 3/24/2002 8:35:50 PM
Julius: Regarding your #30565:
1. The fact remains that you mischaracterized my position in 30551.
2. I never wrote anything to indicate I would disagree with what you write in 30565, so what's your point?
3. Note the significant change from what you wrote in Message # 30510 (the statement I initially criticized) to what you wrote in 30565.
30570. jexster - 3/24/2002 9:39:34 PM
Julio,
how do I get the pubic hair of this coke can?
30571. jexster - 3/24/2002 9:40:51 PM
Don't you just HATE it when that happens!
Haga no usted acaba de ODIAR cuando eso acontece!
30572. jexster - 3/24/2002 9:53:41 PM
[Krusty the Clown]
Hershel "Krusty the Clown" Krustofski has experienced a number of very high highs and very low lows in his long career as one of Springfield's most beloved performers. He has won awards, the acclaim of legions of young fans and millions of dollars through lucrative Krusty Brand products and endorsements. But these successes have come at a great cost: Krusty has been arrested for armed robbery (he was acquitted when it was proven that he was framed by a disgruntled sidekick), he's filed for Chapter 11 and seen his estate sold at auction, and he's had to experience a painful estrangement from his father, who wanted Krusty to be a rabbi. Perhaps it's no surprise then that on his way to the top (and to the bottom and to the top again)
Krusty suffered a heart attack that forced him to wear a pacemaker.
Through good times and bad, Krusty has approached life with his wide, engaging smile. Mostly because the smile is painted on.
30573. jexster - 3/24/2002 10:35:40 PM
Singer Michelle Shocked strapped on her guitar and took the stage for the performance that would finish the first stop on the Rolling Thunder Down-Home Democracy Tour. Looking out at the faces of several thousand cheering Texans, the woman who has penned hits such as "Anchorage" broke into a huge grin and told the crowd, "We just didn't know what we were going to find when we showed up this morning. We didn't know if you all were going to show up. But I think it's been an unqualified success."
Texas populist Jim Hightower's plan to "put the party back into politics" with a rollicking national tour of speechifying, entertaining, organizing and coalition-building along the lines of the 19th-century Chautauqua gatherings had always been greeted with a measure of skepticism. Hightower's friends and allies mumbled that the Lollapalooza of the Left idea might be a hair too ambitious. Would it really be possible, at a time when conservative President George W. Bush is supposed to be enjoying 80 percent approval ratings, to pack a fairgrounds east of Austin for a day of Bush-bashing, corporation-crunching, plutocrat-poking politics with a punch?
"This is just what a lot of us have been waiting for -- the call to action," said Cate Read, an airline industry analyst who watched from her Houston office as employees from the nearby Enron building carried their belongings out of the collapsed corporation's headquarters. "People are ready to start making some noise about what's been going on in this country. The media makes it sound like everyone's for everything George W. Bush does and that is just not the case -- not even in Texas."
Deep in the Heart of Texas
30574. joezan - 3/24/2002 10:51:09 PM
I don't know whether or not it's a personal blessing, Jex (maybe it helps get you through what must be a truly terrible time for lefties)...but you really do find some very deep meaning in the most benign shit.
30575. jexster - 3/25/2002 10:45:37 AM
Do you mean the Broder column about how the Philosopher King is domestically doomed or the big Concert Against Plutocracy in Austin or my discourse on Krusty qua Krusty?
Bush Denies Pandering to Hispanic Vote on Trip
Bush Niega Alcahueteando al Voto Hispano en el Viaje
30576. jexster - 3/25/2002 11:49:16 AM
When the Manichean Heretic has to deal with reality...
30577. jexster - 3/25/2002 12:02:47 PM
"Once again, we see that George W. Bush is a man of his most recent word," Democratic National Committee Chairman Terence R. McAuliffe charged last month. "George Bush said a lot of things and made a lot of promises during the campaign, but he has no plans of keeping those promises."
30578. Cellar Door - 3/25/2002 12:10:07 PM
30579. jexster - 3/25/2002 3:34:21 PM
Free Trade Lies Haunt Philosopher King
30580. jexster - 3/25/2002 3:37:35 PM
Hubris, = Deadly Sin 1-7 for a politician .
And the Manichean Heretic has it in spades!
30581. Cellar Door - 3/26/2002 2:35:25 PM
30582. jexster - 3/26/2002 9:59:57 PM
"We've tripled the amount of money—I believe it's from $50 million up to $195 million available."—Lima, Peru, March 23, 2002
30583. jexster - 3/27/2002 3:07:14 AM
We always knew that if Gray Davis put his mind to it, he could win a Republican primary. The stunning success of California's governor in prodding state Republicans to reject electable Richard Riordan in favor of allbut-unelectable Bill Simon was one of the more breathtaking feats in modern American politics -- as bold a political strategy as Davis's governorship has been timid.
Simon -- a novice candidate and movement conservative who is anti-choice, pro-gun, and not particularly predisposed to environmental protections -- moves on to the general election as a stranger in a strange land. California is a Democratic and center-left state that's steadily growing more so. Not surprisingly, the Simon plan that's emerged since the primary is to say as little as possible about his actual beliefs and to focus instead on the state budget and the less-than-stellar condition of California's public schools. Problem is, that's just about the strategy followed by Jersey City Mayor Bret Schundler, the movement conservative who was the Republican nominee in last November's New Jersey gubernatorial election. It was not a notable success: Schundler's Democratic opponent, Jim McGreevey, clobbered Schundler over the Republicans' right-wing views and won the race by a cool 14 points. As for Simon -- well, California's a more Democratic and liberal state than New Jersey, particularly on those social issues on which Simon is so vulnerable.
Left Coast Primary - Devil in the Details
30584. OhioSTOPAS - 3/27/2002 6:55:16 AM
Today's Salon reports that novelist Norman Mailer has laid into George G.O.P. Shill -I mean, George F. Will - for Will's recent preposterous column in which he compared the vocabulary-challenged George W. Bush to (yagottabekiddinme) Ernest Hemingway.
But you read it here first (Message # 30029) in the Mote!
30585. wonkers2 - 3/27/2002 7:29:46 AM
David Broder--Europe Tires of U.S. Blows--steel tariffs, 'axis of evil' talk ignite anger, anxiety
30586. jexster - 3/27/2002 10:43:35 AM
Is Will part of the Redefining Intelligence Movement too?
Act Now and You Too Can Become A Bush Genius!
30587. jexster - 3/27/2002 10:48:46 AM
Wonk, that's exactly what I said in a recent post on the International Thread....
Bush is becoming progessively more irrelevant internationally. 9-1-1 briefly slowed the slide.
Now that is quite a feat when you think about it. The WarLord of the Free World has become more involved internationally and increasingly inconsequential.
30588. jexster - 3/27/2002 10:58:46 AM
Last night in fact.
Oh and by the way, nothing in the recent "sucesses" of NMD tests remotely changes the fact that the system won't work and can be easily defeated.
There is nothing that the Department of Defense has done that is as difficult," said Philip E. Coyle, a former assistant secretary of defense, who is senior advisor at the Center for Defense Information.
As such it also has been the most controversial. Despite four successful hits out of six tries--including the March 15 test that included distinguishing the warhead from three Mylar balloon decoys--critics have questioned the capabilities of the kill vehicle's sensors to adequately distinguish a warhead from decoys.
Just adding more decoys does not increase the difficulty of the test, said David Wright, a senior staff scientist at the Union of Concerned Scientists, a group critical of the program.
They also raise doubts about other countermeasures that an enemy might put up. The critics say an enemy could refrigerate a warhead to confuse the kill vehicle's sensors, an argument that defense experts dismiss as technologically unfeasible.
Moreover, Wright said, the whole missile defense system requires detailed knowledge of how warheads would appear to the kill vehicle's sensor, an intelligence task that is "highly unrealistic."
Despite what seems to be a very difficult task, hitting a warhead is not as challenging as developing the technology to discriminate targets, missile defense officials said.
In 1982, the Army tested a "hit-to-kill" device that after three failures hit a target missile. The program was canceled after it was determined that the tests had been rigged. In any case, the device was considered too heavy and expensive.
30589. jexster - 3/27/2002 10:59:44 AM
You can fool some of the people some of the time, and True Believing US Conservatives virtually all of the time. In this case, they've been suckered by Raytheon's PR campaign. In fact the only part of NMD that has been proved workable is the sales program which Raytheon hopes will earn billions.
Its a good idea to avoid Defense Contractor propaganda when it comes to major procurements.
30590. jexster - 3/26/2002 4:59:35 PM
Damn your eyes Ohio, that was no article, that was a Salon Premium teaser...
"blow tied bloviate" almost makes me want to spring for 30 bucks (a value at 10 maybe)
Thanks to GWB for bringing us to the Land of Aliterative Overload!
30591. jexster - 3/26/2002 5:10:33 PM
Don't Fight the Deepness Julio
30592. Cygnus X-1 - 3/27/2002 12:00:23 PM
jexster, out of the kindness of my heart, I'm going to try and save you the ignomy of going down as yet another bunch of imbeciles who were saved despite themselves.
1) No defense is perfect, this includes NMD. That doesn't mean all defenses should be abandonded does it?
2) NMD and a federally subsidized cure for aids are both unproven despite much money being spent on them. Which should we abandon? The constitutional one, the unconstitutional one, or both?
3) Which is more difficult?: Discerning a warhead from a bunch of decoys or launching a missle that discharges many decoys every time a defensive missle comes at it?
4) If a nuclear warhead is launched against the United States, would you rather have a chance that a NMD can shoot it down or no chance at all?
30593. concerned - 3/27/2002 12:21:42 PM
Hey, at least jexster is consistent here. His idea of a policy to control AIDS was 'education', an euphemism for 'nothing'. His ideas on NMD are just as valid. But don't blame him, no matter what results, if you adopt his ideas. Ohhhh, no, no, no!
30594. jexster - 3/27/2002 12:30:29 PM
1) To say that no defense is perfect begs the question, is NMD worth the billions it will take to discover that it can be defeated by pouring liquid oxygen over the missile. The special problem of missile defense is precisely that it can be easily and cheaply defeated.
2) Let's leave aside your Posse Comitatis understanding of the constitution just for the grins it deserves. The question is cost, risk, potential effectiveness and by those criteria the answer is clear - cut NMD and add 2% of the money budgeted for that to AIDS research.
3) Discerning the warhead from decoys
4) Depends on how good the chance is, which is precisely what this debate is about.
30595. jexster - 3/27/2002 12:32:54 PM
Lay off the MadDog 20/20 TD. "My ideas on AIDS" are the hair of the Mad Dog that bit your brain.
30596. concerned - 3/27/2002 12:39:45 PM
Good ol' 'nothing ventured, nothing gained' jexster.
30597. concerned - 3/27/2002 12:39:58 PM
Good ol' 'nothing ventured, nothing gained' jexster.
30598. Cygnus X-1 - 3/27/2002 1:19:35 PM
1) Is see. NMD can be easily and cheaply defeated. How do we know? Because the critics say so. It's all we need to know.
2) Since no one has ever refuted the Madisonian contention that there is a strict enumeration of federal powers other than the absurd claim that that is "just Madison's opinion", I accept your "punt". However, there is already a vastly disproportionate share of federal money spent per death from AIDS than from other diseases such as cancer. Since AIDS is a disease which a significant majority of the population have virtually no fear or chance of contracting while cancer most certainly is not, why does spending even more money on it make sense?
3) How do you propose stocking a missle with enough decoys and firing mechanisms to take out, for the sake of argument, 10 seperate and staggered launches of defensive missles?
4) Would you be willing to lessen your tax burden your share of NMD but be forbidden from ever entering some location designated as protected by a missle defense? (Of course you would. So would many faux sophisticated. That is, until a missle is launched at which point such an agreement would be deemed "unfair".)
30599. jexster - 3/27/2002 1:42:01 PM
1) Because its in the nature of the technology Cyg. The more sophisticated a system the easier it is to thwart. In the entire recorded history of military operation, offensive systems have invariably overcome defensive systems. In fact, with the limited and probably chimerical exception of the fortress warfare craze in the latter half of the 18th century, and the dubious exception of WWI trench war, this has always been so.
30600. OhioSTOPAS - 3/27/2002 1:46:09 PM
Cygnus's number 2 is, well, number 2.
Merely comparing the numbers of deaths from cancer and AIDS is not an accurate measure of the mortal threats these diseases pose. On average, cancer usually afflicts someone late in life, while AIDS afflicts young people. The fact that the average death from AIDS takes away many more years of expected life than does the average death from cancer should be considered in allocating resources.
As for "enumerated powers" . . . we've been over this before. Cygnus continues to believe everybody's wrong but him.
30601. Julius Caesar - 3/27/2002 1:48:23 PM
Vast Right-Wing Conspirator Smears David Brock
30602. Jonesatlaw - 3/27/2002 1:51:48 PM
Recent commentary on Pickering's failed nomination examines whether Senate Democrats were in bounds in considering political/philosophical implications of the nomination- Lazarus on Pickering fight and Amar Bros.
Thought Julius would be interested.
30603. jexster - 3/27/2002 1:52:44 PM
2) I will leave Madison rest in peace over your ludicrous claims. Save them for your next Militia adventure in Idaho. The fact is that AIDS is killing now. The fact is that AIDS can be cured or managed. The fact is that people like to fuck. The fact is that AIDS is capable of and has, for all intents and purposes, laid waste to entire nations.
3) I think I see the source of your confusion. Offensive missles "do not take out" defensive systems. Its the other way around. This is how it works Cyg. You are Commander Blue Force. You have 10, 20, 30 of those Raytheon gizmos. I have 10, 20, 30 real warheads. I have 100 missles. Each missle carries 3 decoys. You do not know when I launch. To make matters worse, I freeze my missiles and your kill vehicle cannot "see".
Again, the problem of offense. I can generate more options at vastly less cost, in a fraction of the time that you can develop a system to deal with me.
30604. jexster - 3/27/2002 1:54:54 PM
4)Would you be willing to lessen your tax burden your share of NMD but be forbidden from ever entering some location designated as protected by a missle defense?
Depends on the location. Texas? I can do without Texas? Same for Mississippi, Alabama, Oklahoma, Kansas, North/South Dakota, Nebraska, Iowa, 90% of Nevada, and the LA basin
30605. Jonesatlaw - 3/27/2002 1:56:30 PM
NMD would have precisely what for us on 9-11? Since 9-11 has already killed more Americans than missle attacks ever have, which do you think is a higher priority for defense research?
30606. jexster - 3/27/2002 1:56:37 PM
But I live in California. So I can sleep at night thanks to Vandenberg AFB and your tax dollars.
Thanks Cyg!
UR one hella fine fella
30607. Julius Caesar - 3/27/2002 1:58:00 PM
Jones
Thanks. I agree with this much of the article. Especially, And rather than pretend (as is both untrue and irresponsible) that ideology has no role to play, the President and the Senate should embrace ideology as a proper measure for a candidate for the bench - and have their battles on that ground.
I object when the goal (defeat) leads people to vile or baseless ends (like charges of racism, in the case of Pickering, and charges of soft-on-crime liberal gooeyness, in the case of White).
If the Democrats want to simply vote down folks they deem too conservative, so be it. Just say it.
And every judicial nominee, no matter how he or she is voted on in committee, deserves a floor vote.
30608. Jonesatlaw - 3/27/2002 1:59:33 PM
Jex-Since I live in one of your expendable states, and in an area that is a likely both a high risk target for the attack hypo'd in NMD theory and likely protected by it, I would offer the following:
Spare us, please.
30609. jexster - 3/27/2002 2:00:45 PM
Well put Jonesy...Occam's Razor to the throat.
I'll take NMD seriously when we figure out how to stop 747's
30610. Jonesatlaw - 3/27/2002 2:02:28 PM
Julius, I thought about including a caveat that they seem to skirt the smear issue, which is unfortunate.
30611. Jonesatlaw - 3/27/2002 2:03:22 PM
Jex- precisely.
30612. jexster - 3/27/2002 2:04:22 PM
If the Democrats want to simply vote down folks they deem too conservative, so be it. Just say it.
Well we have!
That was what Pickering was all about. Daschle said as much. So did DiFi. So too Leahy. Rove gave a stem winder to a gathering of GOP Taliban, days after the vote..."If the liberuls think they'll scare us from nominating conservatives, well they've picked a fight with the wrong guy".
Deputy Dawg es muy macho.
30613. Julius Caesar - 3/27/2002 2:05:12 PM
Jones
It's when they go to destroying people on any flimsy pretext in an effort to gin up the votes to whack 'em that bothers me.
I don't even care about the "she's outside of the mainstream!" attack, which is just doublespeak for "She's too liberal/too conservative for my taste!"
I say "she" because the next target is another 5th Circuit nominee, Priscilla Owen.
30614. Julius Caesar - 3/27/2002 2:06:28 PM
Jexster
This is adult swim. Hold your little peeper under the guard chair for 15 minutes or so.
30615. Jonesatlaw - 3/27/2002 2:07:17 PM
Julius, see the Amar Brothers column on the subject, they advocate principles I think you are in agreement with.
30616. jexster - 3/27/2002 2:07:24 PM
Once you've crossed the Badlands and you begin to appreciate what you've left behind - Omaha, Lincoln, "Huskerdoo".
Bout says it all sorry to say.
30617. Jonesatlaw - 3/27/2002 2:11:00 PM
Julius-BTW do you subscribe to "Writ" through findlaw? That's where I'm getting this stuff and it's usually pretty good. It's a freebee and summaries are emailed to you.
30618. jexster - 3/27/2002 2:12:10 PM
DANGER BIG NASTY SHARKS IN WATER! Short people swim at own risk.
In Mexican...
¡El PELIGRO TIBURONES DESAGRADABLES GRANDES EN el AGUA! La gente corta nada en propio riesgo.
30619. Julius Caesar - 3/27/2002 2:16:01 PM
Jones
I don't. Direct me, please.
30620. jexster - 3/27/2002 2:16:20 PM
30621. Cygnus X-1 - 3/27/2002 2:22:05 PM
1) No NMD advocate disputes the tendency of offenses to overwhelm defenses. However, if you had to live surrounded by a bunch of spear chuckers who might occasionally be able to chuck rocks with a catapult and someone said they could build you a castle as a defense against them, would you take it? Or, would you turn your faux sophisticated nose to it so as not to offend the spear chuckers.
2) Right. The Constitution is a "living" document. So is your ass. Both statements make the same amount of sense. The fact is that AIDS can be cured or managed.
I say mutations of the virus will easily defeat any cure. I win.
3) No one is claiming that NMD will protect us against a sophisticated adversary. Don't try and defeat a point no one is making. However, the more sophisticated we become, the more capable our defenses will be at protecting us from unsophisticated adversaries.
4) Hypocrite.
30622. jexster - 3/27/2002 2:23:36 PM
Coyle: There was an important story in the Los Angeles Times about a month ago that actually is pertinent ? it?s about the war in Afghanistan ? but it?s actually pertinent to Missile Defense. It describes how an anti-Taliban fighter, a Northern Alliance, had hesitated to ask for air support. And he hesitated because he remembered his experiences 20 years before in the ?80s during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. He learned then that you never knew when or where the bombs were going to hit. But on Nov. 8 of 2001, he felt he had no other choice. He was watching al Qaeda fighters massing to retake the northern city of Kanduz, and he told the U.S. Air Force Special Operations lieutenant, ?We need some air.? Within 20 minutes, the Times story explained, a secession of fireballs erupted over an expanse about the size of this restaurant, killing 259 al Qaeda fighters and taking out a command center, artillery, and armored vehicles. According to the Los Angeles Times, the anti-Taliban fighter said, ?You gotta be kidding!? I think maybe the LA Times lost something in the translation there, but whatever this guy said, the point was he hadn?t expected the air strikes for days. And those precision weapons were launched from a B-52, 40 miles away.
So that?s the question for National Missile Defense: can we build a layered missile defense system that will be better, more reliable, and cheaper than the attack operations that we?ve seen be so successful in Afghanistan?
30623. jexster - 3/27/2002 2:23:53 PM
Gen. [Ronald] Kadish, [director of the Pentagon?s Missile Defense Agency] recognized this in his hearing before the House Armed Services Committee on Feb. 27. Congressman Gene Taylor [D-Miss.] and Congressman [Ike] Skelton [D-Mo.] asked him about the confidence he would have shooting down a single enemy ICBM given a week?s warning, and assuming that we knew where it was coming from. Gen. Kadish said that in that situation, ?I wouldn?t even use missile defense.? Then Congressman Skelton, who?s from Missouri, joked that he would use a B2 from Whiteman AFB to bomb the enemy missiles before they even left the ground. And Gen. Kadish said, ?It?d be a lot more effective.?
And I?ve commented in other forums that missile defense is the most difficult thing that the Deparment of Defense has tried to do ? more difficult than the F-22 or any Navy ship or helicopter, or the M1 tank with battlefield digitization. You pick an example, and there is nothing that the Department of Defense has done that is as difficult as missile defense, especially the way that the secretary has laid it out.
Some people have compared the difficulty of missile defense with the Manhattan project to develop the atom bomb, but the difference is that missile defense is being developed without either the urgency of the threat or the constituency of a world war emergency. And, in many ways, the development of the atom bomb, which I was involved in myself, was more focused.
Peter Coyle, CDI, former director Operational Testing and Evaluation, DoD
30624. CalGal - 3/27/2002 2:24:25 PM
Question: by and large, this has only become an issue in the past 20 years or so? Were there no divisive social issues that people felt were at risk?
30625. jexster - 3/27/2002 2:25:17 PM
Shield of Dreams: An Examination of NMD Tech Feasibility
30626. Jonesatlaw - 3/27/2002 2:26:00 PM
Julius- here's the site to subscribe to the newsletters findlaw newsletters lots of good stuff by practice areas and jurisdictions.
30627. Cygnus X-1 - 3/27/2002 2:27:24 PM
BTW, once again no one is claiming that NMD would protect against hijacked 747's. What's your point? My point would be, though, that if people are determined enough to hijack planes to slam into buildings, they're determined enough to acquire and launch missles at us. Federalizing airport security won't help us with that.
30628. jexster - 3/27/2002 2:29:25 PM
Excerpt for Cyg:
"One of the dilemmas involved in creating a missile-defense system is that the offense always has the advantage," says Coyle. "They can always figure out how to beat it"
Both the United States and Russia have designed missiles that contain decoys. There is no reason, says Coyle, why North Korea, Iran, or Iraq could not equip missiles with decoys too. "If they're smart enough to make ICBMs with sophisticated guidance systems and all the rest, I think they can figure out how to make decoys," says Coyle.
The simplest decoys are Mylar balloons, just like those sold in supermarkets, except that each one is about the size of a house. They reflect radar and present tracking stations with hundreds of signals. Besides balloons, the bus might spew out millions of pieces of half-inch-long radar-reflecting wires. Clouds of this chaff, as it is called, would envelop the warhead, making its exact location very difficult to determine. An interceptor could sail through the cloud without touching the warhead. Other chaff clouds would be empty, creating more false targets.
The radar stations and satellites the United States uses can track the launch and flight of a missile very accurately, but they cannot distinguish decoys from targets. To do that, the missile-defense system must rely on a powerful new radar, called X-band, now being tested on Kwajalein Atoll in the western Pacific. Like all radar, it sends out electromagnetic pulses and detects pulses that reflect back off the targets. X-band radar has a much shorter wavelength than any existing radar--just over an inch long--which allows it to resolve details of range, size, and shape that remain invisible to standard radar. The prototype is reported to be able to detect objects as far away as 1,200 miles. When the radar is fully developed, that range is expected to increase to about 2,400 miles.
30629. jexster - 3/27/2002 2:30:36 PM
Coyle points out that the X-band radar's high resolution will create problems of its own. The wavelength is so short, he says that it will reflect off rain or hail in the line of sight between the radar and the objects it tracks. And the radar has been anything but foolproof in early tests (see "Anatomy of a Test," below).
Plans call for X-band radar to work in concert with a fleet of two dozen or so new infrared satellites, which have yet to be built. The program is behind schedule and over budget. In theory, X-band radar would be able to tell a warhead from decoy balloons because the round balloons and cone-shaped warhead would all create unique radar reflections. The satellites would find the target by measuring the amount of infrared radiation--heat--emitted by the warhead and the decoys; a 1,000-pound warhead would remain warmer as it traveled through the cold vacuum of space than would the light balloon decoys, which would rapidly cool. All of this information would be sent to a command center, most likely Cheyenne Mountain, which would automatically relay it to the computers on board the interceptor missile.
But even the most advanced detectors could be foiled by the simplest of countermeasures. Instead of using round balloons, an enemy might make cheap, detailed balloon replicas of the warhead, so the radar reflections from the decoy and the warhead would look identical to the X-band receivers. Small, battery-powered heaters placed inside the decoys could trick infrared satellites into believing they had spotted a real, warm warhead. Alternatively, the warhead itself could be cooled by sheathing it with an insulating aluminum shell filled with liquid nitrogen, hiding it from the infrared satellites (see "How to Hide a Missile ," below).
30630. jexster - 3/27/2002 2:30:56 PM
An enemy could even enclose the real warhead in a balloon, which would inflate when released from the bus, making the warhead indistinguishable from the decoys. Even if the interceptor managed to hit the house-sized balloon containing the refrigerator-sized warhead, it might just puncture the balloon and sail right past the warhead.
Postol points out another potential obstacle. Should the X-band radar somehow manage to single out the warhead from a herd of decoys, that information might be useless for the interceptor. "If the radar correctly identifies an object as a warhead, it doesn't mean that the kill vehicle will know which object to home in on," he says. The problem is that once the radar has relayed its information to the interceptor, the targets, traveling at about five miles per second, will have moved. "By the time the kill vehicle encounters the targets, they will have been remixed up," says Postol.
Closing on the flock of balloons, chaff, and warhead at more than 15,000 miles per hour, the interceptor would have to rely on its own sensors and would likely miss the warhead. Moreover, an enemy would not have to arm its missiles with nuclear warheads and decoys to defeat a defense shield. Instead, it could opt to load one warhead with a hundred or more small "bomblets," each packed with a biological weapon like anthrax spores. Dropped on a city and dispersed by the wind, they might be more devastating than any nuclear weapon. One hundred bomblets could release 440 pounds of anthrax over a city, enough to kill more than 100,000 people. A nuclear weapon built with third-world technology might kill 60,000. A missile-defense shield would be utterly helpless against such a threat--the bomblets would be far too small and numerous for any interceptors to destroy or even see.
30631. jexster - 3/27/2002 2:33:56 PM
30632. Jonesatlaw - 3/27/2002 2:34:22 PM
The only thing that NMD has shown any capability in is a Crazy Ivan scenario where some nut gets control of an ICBM and attacks the US with it. The alternate solution proposed by the colloquy between the general and congressman is more realistic. If we look at the sources of the actual threats postulated, we are more likely to face a short or medium range missle, or another delivery system altogether. North Korea doesn't have ICBM's, nor do any of the states in the axis of evil, or club wannabes. China is the only real candidate for deterrence by NMD, since the Russians could easily overwhelm anything proposed since Raygun's flights of Alzheimer's fantasy. China can build ICBMs and we would only encourage her to build up to a level where she would be assured of delivery as Russia is.
30633. jexster - 3/27/2002 2:40:17 PM
Given that we've already wasted tens of billions on StarWars and have absolutely nothing to show for it, perhaps we should demand a tad more than a slick PR feed from the main DoD contractor.
30634. Jonesatlaw - 3/27/2002 2:41:17 PM
In the 1960's USAF B-52's were equipped with "Quail" standoff missles whose purpose was to actively transmit radar signals to mimic radar returns from two additional bombers from each Quail. This technology has to be assumed to be within reach of potential enemies given that it is over 40 years old and predates modern computer capacities. The real threat is cruise type missles, which are updated WWII technology. They needn't be as sophisticated as our present missles, since they are likely aimed at area targets with weapons of mass destruction as warheads.
NMD is a budget in search of a rationale.
30635. jexster - 3/27/2002 2:45:31 PM
If I were a terrorist, I'd go for the Deluxe Buzzbomb - An Airbus A300 with 500 kg anthrax in baggage compartment
30636. OhioSTOPAS - 3/27/2002 2:50:59 PM
"The only thing that NMD has shown any capability in is a Crazy Ivan scenario . . . "
Tom Toles had a great cartoon on this theme. I'll see if I can find it and post a link.
30637. concerned - 3/27/2002 3:05:50 PM
Re. 30631 -
Hey, jex -
Even if your stupid lox idea is worth a shit during suborbital flight, which I doubt, it doesn't stand a chance of working during reentry when ground based NMD systems will be saving your sorry reprehensible ass.
30638. concerned - 3/27/2002 3:08:42 PM
NMD is a budget in search of a rationale.
No, it isn't.
30639. jexster - 3/27/2002 3:21:45 PM
Way back when, when I was Bagman di tutti Bagmen, I learned the value of the Center for Defense Information.
Its hard enough to evaluate programs for weapons systems designed to meet threats that do not exist save in the imaginations of war gamers, university profs, and security cleared think tanks, but the task is all the more daunting when you consider the source - sole source contractors getting rich on cost based procurement and DoD soldiers whose current jobs depend on defending gigantic budgets looking forward to the Days of Double Dips, doing what they're doing now at 2.5 times the pay plus US pension.
CDI's work is first rate and has been for 30 years.
30640. jexster - 3/27/2002 3:27:38 PM
Deep Thought for TD....
Should I be concerned that while we sit years away from any determination that the program is technically feasible in the first place the means of defeating even a limited deployment have been proven and deployed for 20 years at 1/10000 the cost?
30641. jexster - 3/27/2002 3:29:59 PM
No NMD is an article of faith, delivered once for all by St. Ronald.
Well take that to the Religion Thread.
30642. concerned - 3/27/2002 3:32:00 PM
Assuming we have accurate information and a means of continuing to obtain it.
But we don't.
Also assuming that there is something besides NMD which can prevent devastation once a preemptive launch against the US occurs.
But there isn't.
Assuming there is a way to avoid nuclear blackmail from tinhorn dictatorships without NMD.
But there isn't.
30643. concerned - 3/27/2002 3:33:35 PM
MAD has been relegated to history. I want to keep it that way, at least as regards the US.
30644. OhioSTOPAS - 3/27/2002 3:47:43 PM
30645. jexster - 3/27/2002 3:49:01 PM
MAD relegated to history? What ARE you talking about? MAD still governs the strategic nuclear position US/USSR but more to the point, has no relevance whatsoever to any of the "rogue threats" that NMD is designed to meet - maybe - sort of - kind of
You have to stop willy nilly using those RNC talkin point memos TD.
"Countermeasures: A Technical Evaluation of the Operational Effectiveness of the Planned US National Missile Defense System" - Union of Concerned Scientists/MIT
Put the talking points away. Ch4 on "Why the Defense Will Always Have the Advantage" will do you a world of good.
30646. jexster - 3/27/2002 3:49:25 PM
MAD relegated to history? What ARE you talking about? MAD still governs the strategic nuclear position US/USSR but more to the point, has no relevance whatsoever to any of the "rogue threats" that NMD is designed to meet - maybe - sort of - kind of
You have to stop willy nilly using those RNC talkin point memos TD.
"Countermeasures: A Technical Evaluation of the Operational Effectiveness of the Planned US National Missile Defense System" - Union of Concerned Scientists/MIT
Put the talking points away. Ch4 on "Why the Attacker Has the Advantage" will do you a world of good.
30647. jexster - 3/27/2002 3:53:49 PM
Discrimination: The Real Showstopper
"Discrimination"-the ability to distinguish real warheads from decoys-seems to be the most complex and controversial technological hurdle but the current NMD R&D design probably cannot meet even the most rudimentary countermeasures...
CDI...
"General Ronald Kadish, the current Director of BMDO, relies on the most recent "Welch Report" to buttress his position that the best approach to NMD development is an incremental one: although "design discrimination capabilities are adequate to meet the defined C-1 [Capability 1] threat. . . more advanced decoy suites are likely to escalate the discrimination challenge" [emphasis added]. General Kadish told the Senate Armed Services Committee on June 29, 2000 that "should we choose to add the additional sophistication" the EKV can handle more sophisticated decoys.
General Kadish did acknowledge that the NMD program is on a high risk schedule as it has compressed the normal DoD acquisition cycle from the usual 15 or more years to 8 (1997-2005). But he also believes, in quoting the latest Welch Report, that "the technical capability is available to develop and field the limited system to meet the defined C-1 threat" consisting of unsophisticated countermeasures [emphasis added]. Considering that the "hit-to-kill" approach leaves no room for error, many regard this "defined" threat as defining away the problem.
30648. jexster - 3/27/2002 4:00:20 PM
Here Ohio...
30649. concerned - 3/27/2002 4:00:44 PM
MAD relegated to history? What ARE you talking about?
Ok, I anticipated a little bit. But, it soon will be.
30650. Cygnus X-1 - 3/27/2002 5:06:31 PM
So, jexster, are you saying NMD is A Severe Strain on Credulity?
30651. concerned - 3/27/2002 5:19:47 PM
Jonah Goldberg's Last Rites for that embarrassment to humanity, the WH Rapist
30652. Cellar Door - 3/27/2002 6:55:59 PM
I'm waiting for the Last Rites for that embarrassment to humanity, Andrew Sullivan.
30653. jexster - 3/27/2002 9:33:24 PM
Good now I am sure we will hear nothing more from Jonah, Spawn of Lucianne, Mother of Linda or TDaschle about Clinton's dick.
30654. jexster - 3/27/2002 9:47:18 PM
No Cyg, what I am saying is that the public ought to be very skeptical for the following reasons among others...
- the technology is unproven and highly complex
- it is easier to defeat NMD than to modify or build it
- we have been working on missile defense since Nike-X in the 1950's yet after 40 years (and I wish I knew off hand how much down the toilet on star wars) we have finally managed to hit a missle with a missle when we know where and when its been launched
- the policy making process that drives the debate and is the primary source of public information is suspect. Because it is not competitive, because of the need for secrecy, because of the incredibly powerful interests that control it, all claims for defense procurement in general and particularly for one as complex as NMD must be viewed with skepticism
- NMD in the abstract has always been worth R&D investment at some level... but when the fast-track procurement push is on as it is now, I think that we should demand more assurance than we are getting that the system will work by the date claimed, that its design criteria include reasonably foreseeable countermeasures, that its budget be examined closely...
- Similarly, I think that NMD spending be justified not only on its own but in comparison to other defense needs and other public priorities
30655. jexster - 3/27/2002 10:08:02 PM
I used to think that Cyg's Gorby quotes were totally off the wall but it seems that, since their Holy Man gave his imprimatur to Putin's Soul, it seems that Russkie ex-commies are now a conservative fad...
See What You Miss When You Don't Read the Weekly Standard & National Review?
If it weren't for Julio, I never would have known about the Redefine Intelligence Movement either.
30656. jexster - 3/27/2002 10:19:41 PM
Just as Bill Simon Jr. is struggling to unite the fractious California Republican Party behind his campaign for governor, a new round of infighting has erupted among state GOP leaders.
The clash threatens to disrupt Simon's effort to build momentum among fellow conservatives and broaden his appeal to moderates for his bid to unseat Gov. Gray Davis in November.
California's today is America's tommorrow....and in CA, the GOP is in deep doo.
30657. concerned - 3/28/2002 1:25:38 AM
30658. OhioSTOPAS - 3/28/2002 5:11:28 AM
The Washington Times, Connie? Try reading some other newspapers once in a while. The WTimes's characterization of task force-environmentalist contacts is contrary to every other news organization, including the Wall Street Journal.
30659. OhioSTOPAS - 3/28/2002 5:16:48 AM
Regarding national missile defense, a bigger problem than the likely waste of money is that our attempts to develop such a system prod other nations to increase their stock of weapons and increase somewhat the possibility of nuclear war.
30660. wonkers2 - 3/28/2002 8:20:18 AM
Isn't the Washington Times a Moonie paper?
30661. Cygnus X-1 - 3/28/2002 10:39:20 AM
Man, those pesky Moonies, always reporting unfortunate facts, like the fucking greens declined to participate in the energy task force.
Energy sought greens' advice
Now, what makes the Washington Times so bad in your eyes (you liberals that is)? Is it that it reports facts that the NY Times and Washington Post deem irrelevant?
30662. jexster - 3/28/2002 10:53:23 AM
No its because the Washington Times' "news" stories are commentaries and grossly slanted....
Same offer I made before...take any US domestic political subject where there is some controversy however slight, do a content analysis of the stories on that subject appearing the same day in the three papers and you will see just how gross that rag is...
Bring back the Star!
30663. jexster - 3/28/2002 10:55:19 AM
The demise of the program, called Navy Area Wide, provides an instructive tale about the pressure on the Pentagon to develop a missile defense system and still maintain fiscal discipline. It has underscored the technical difficulties of making missile defense work. The administration's decision also has made credible its intention to cut anti-missile programs that fail to pan out.
$2.4 Billion Down the Toilet
And states and doctors are collapsing under the weight of Bush Medicare and Medicaid cuts
30664. Cygnus X-1 - 3/28/2002 11:12:06 AM
jexster, that's horse shit. What you mean, though you don't know it, is that the Washington Times news stores are factual accounts rather than the newsitorials found in the NY Times (as was admitted by an editor who works there).
30665. jexster - 3/28/2002 11:12:42 AM
Bush Energy Order Wording Mirrors Oil Lobby's Proposal
Is that plagiarism or just plain ole plutocracy?
30666. concerned - 3/28/2002 11:21:03 AM
jexster -
The NRDC are shameless, disreputable liars who are trying to crucify GWB, nothing more. Who gives a fuck about the NRDC's semantical nitpicking, except the loopy Left?
30667. concerned - 3/28/2002 11:25:15 AM
It's pathetic that the WP thinks such garbage is newsworthy. Perhaps the WP will next consider phone directory listings as breaking news.
30668. concerned - 3/28/2002 11:27:10 AM
I can see it now. WP headline: "People named Smith: Plagiariam, Plutocracy, or Something More Sinister?"
30669. concerned - 3/28/2002 11:30:14 AM
Wonder why the WP hasn't done a piece on how all Democrats suddenly mouth identical catch phrases to the media when a party wide issue come up? That's much more newsworthy than the foolishness that Jexster linked.
30670. jexster - 3/28/2002 11:33:39 AM
TD..see my message to JoeZ on how the liberal conspiracy has planned all this and carry on from there.
.
30671. jexster - 3/28/2002 11:34:09 AM
"An official from the American Petroleum Institute sent an e-mail on March 20, 2001, to Joseph Kelliher, then a Department of Energy policy adviser, proposing language for a Bush policy on energy regulations. API called it "a suggested executive order to ensure that energy implications are considered and acted on in rule-makings and other executive actions."
"The oil companies seem to be putting words in our president's mouth," said Sharon Buccino, senior attorney for the NRDC"
30672. concerned - 3/28/2002 11:36:11 AM
Sharon Buccino seems to be lying. But that's nothing new, considering that we're talking about a dishonest organization such as the NRDC.
30673. Cygnus X-1 - 3/28/2002 11:37:06 AM
Ah yes, the N.Y. Times, "The Paper of Record (for slanted news). Pulitzer Awarded for Reports on INS Abuses
Excerpt:
Managing Editor Bill Keller called the project, which "took 15 reporters out of commission for well over a year," an attempt "to get as deep into the lives of people in interracial relationships as we could. It was extremely hard."
Keller said the Times decided not to have each piece "build up to a fourth or fifth paragraph where the writer stood back, cleared his throat and told you what to think. We trusted readers would draw their own conclusions and maybe disagree." For a newspaper that specializes in "giving you a little editorial elbow in the ribs," he said, the lack of a pointed theme was "kind of liberating."
30674. jexster - 3/28/2002 11:38:34 AM
Ok now we know that the API put words in our Moron's Mouth...
And we also know that Frum of the Weekly Standard put the Axis of Evil on his lips and made America a laughingstock...
People are always doin that aren't they?
Is our President a PresiDUNCE or something?
And WHO put these words on the Royal Imbecilic lips?
"We've tripled the amount of money—I believe it's from $50 million up to $195 million available."—Lima, Peru, March 23, 2002
"We've got pockets of persistent poverty in our society, which I refuse to declare defeat—I mean, I refuse to allow them to continue on. And so one of the things that we're trying to do is to encourage a faith-based initiative to spread its wings all across America, to be able to capture this great compassionate spirit."—O'Fallon, Mo., Mar. 18, 2002
"There's nothing more deep than recognizing Israel's right to exist. That's the most deep thought of all. ... I can't think of anything more deep than that right."—Washington, D.C., March 13, 2002
"I understand that the unrest in the Middle East creates unrest throughout the region."—Washington, D.C., March 13, 2002
Was it U TD?
30675. jexster - 3/28/2002 11:40:17 AM
or was it one of your kindegarten classmates..fess up
30676. concerned - 3/28/2002 11:45:25 AM
jexster -
The WP did its readership a disservice. Showing that two slightly similar sentences exist in the API email and the GWB order does nothing to prove that one was 'lifted' from the other.
Unless the two documents were made available to the reader in full by the WP, they should have ignored this fetid piece of disinformation by the blatantly partisan NRDC.
30677. jexster - 3/28/2002 11:47:08 AM
Energy Industry's Recommendations to Bush Became National Policy
Cyg,this would be a very good topic for content analysis. I've already given the NyT and WPost links...just go get the WT story come back here and I will tell you how to perform a content analysis
30678. jexster - 3/28/2002 11:47:56 AM
Hey there was no substantive difference! None at all and even the wording tracks!
30679. concerned - 3/28/2002 11:48:18 AM
The NRDC has so discredited itself by suing the Cheney Energy Task Force over 'not including environmental groups in its early meetings', and then having task force documents show that the NRDC itself was invited to several of the earliest meetings, that I'm surprised that even the unintelligent news staff at the WP has fallen for this NRDC ruse.
30680. concerned - 3/28/2002 11:49:07 AM
Re. 30678 -
jexster -
Such an assertion only reveals your own stupidity and blindness. What can I say?
30681. jexster - 3/28/2002 11:49:20 AM
and to top it all off, Bush has refused to produce documents and redacted the shit out of the one's the court compelled him to produce.
Do you think we're all stoopid?
The bastards are hiding something and we know what now
30682. jexster - 3/28/2002 11:51:26 AM
Partial Emails (pdf)
List of Redactions (pdf)
30683. concerned - 3/28/2002 11:53:11 AM
jexster -
We could never count on the likes of you to admit that there may be confidential information of various sorts in these documents which should be redacted.
30684. jexster - 3/28/2002 11:53:32 AM
The NRDC WASN'T included and they aren't suing because they weren't they are suing to get the fuckin docs Cheney is trying to hide!
The most expensive President money can buy..you'd think they could have bought one with enough brains to speak for himself
30685. jexster - 3/28/2002 11:54:47 AM
There is no privilege here....the Imperial President is trying to concoct it...and he's being sued again because this is a democracy or it was until Scalia voided the vote
30686. Julius Caesar - 3/28/2002 11:55:01 AM
Goose, Gander and the Proper Prism (If You Were Really Being Honest)
Without engaging in Rich's and Brock's delight in airing people's dirty laundry in order to denouncing dirty-laundry airing, suffice it to say the problem with this analysis is that it leaves out a lot of history. Indeed, a theater reviewer by training (and a good one), Rich should know that's it's not fair to judge a play if you've only seen the second act.
This may sound juvenile, but they started it. It was the cultural Left which declared that the "personal is political." Indeed, that was a feminist slogan. In the 1980s it was conservatives who argued, in effect, "boys will be boys" and it was the Left who said "not on your life." Liberals disinterred the archaic verb "womanize" in order to lay siege to John Tower. Liberals — agents of the government no less — invaded Robert Bork's private life, investigating his video rentals. Liberals chanted "you just don't get it!" with Maoist fury over the perfidy of Clarence Thomas's alleged joke about a pubic hair and for asking a longtime employee and friend to go out on a date. The whole thing was like Milan Kundera's The Joke — except liberals weren't laughing.
Liberals celebrated the most insane and dangerous ideologues of the Left who told us that "sex is rape" and that all men were horrid, lecherous evil creatures. As a result, liberals — like Hillary Clinton and her nodding husband — created a vast web of rules, laws, and secular customs designed to police the sexual lives of Americans.
30687. jexster - 3/28/2002 11:58:37 AM
Rock and Roll...Joltin Joe Lieberman enters the ring..
Bush Gets One-Two Punch on Energy
Policy: A leading senator seeks disclosures from White House on Enron contacts. Green groups are back in court on document release issue.
30688. jexster - 3/28/2002 11:59:47 AM
Now TD you tell me all about these great principles of your bought and paid for prez and then we'll talk steel and lumber tariffs.
Do you think everyone is as dumb as Bush?
30689. concerned - 3/28/2002 12:00:30 PM
Re. 30684 -
Sorry, jex, but you're flat out wrong. I included a link upstream which described four of the very early meetings with the Cheney energy task force which the NRDC attended, but then attempted to hide its participation in.
The NRDC is as crooked as a dogs hind leg.
30690. jexster - 3/28/2002 12:00:55 PM
and then maybe we'll have time to talk about how Excellon got Cheney to write in their new nuke for a paltry 345K
30691. concerned - 3/28/2002 12:01:21 PM
NRDC - liars.
Cheney Task Force - not liars.
30692. concerned - 3/28/2002 12:01:45 PM
That should be clear enough even for factually challenged jexster.
30693. jexster - 3/28/2002 12:03:01 PM
The documents released the other day in fact prove you an idiot....
Check the e-mail from the Energy Dept..the NRDC meetings occured only after a huge public stink and only after the draft was prepared...the poor lady in ED remarked "this wasn't per process"
You bet it wasnt!
30694. concerned - 3/28/2002 12:06:30 PM
Jexster -
The NRDC met with the Cheney task force three or four times between March and June of 2001. The GWB administration didn't even begin until January 20th 2001. There was no 'public stink' of any sort until later, and any stench was due to liars like you congregating in one spot.
Me thinks you and the NRDC are full of shit, to put it gently.
30695. jexster - 3/28/2002 12:06:48 PM
Government by the people of the people has become government by the plutocrats of the plutocrats
30696. jexster - 3/28/2002 12:07:54 PM
Yes and the draft was complete by then..Cheney after all didn't have a whole shit load of work to do...the Oil companies including Enron wrote the damned thing
30697. jexster - 3/28/2002 12:13:04 PM
Energy Department documents now confirm what everyone has long suspected — that in seeking guidance on its energy strategy last year, the Bush administration welcomed industry executives and lobbyists with open arms, while treating environmental groups like skunks at a picnic.
Chenron Task Force Farce
30698. jexster - 3/28/2002 12:18:02 PM
Documents Show Energy Official Met Only With Industry Leaders
Activists Asked for Energy Meetings
Docs Show Chenron Dances to Big Oil's Tune
Excelon Buys Into Chenron Energy Report for 345,000 smackers
30699. jexster - 3/28/2002 12:18:39 PM
Now I gotta do my laundry...tell Krusty to throw in his shit stained underwear
30700. jexster - 3/28/2002 12:20:11 PM
Thanks in part to the unbalanced Cheney report, the House produced an alarmingly one-sided bill with $27 billion in subsidies for traditional energy producers, and only $6 billion for conservation. In the Senate, a more promising bill has been weakened by industry pressure. That's what happens when only one side of an issue gets a fair hearing in Washington.
30701. jexster - 3/28/2002 12:31:02 PM
Thanks to Lexis a full text reprint of February's LAT piece by Kevin Phillips is now available in the Enron Thread...
The Company Presidency;
Enron and the Bush family have boosted each other up the ladder of success. But have their ties created a Teapot Dome? - Kevin Phillips, LAT
30702. jexster - 3/28/2002 12:33:04 PM
Yea the NRDC is corrupt....
HEY SOMEBODY STOP THAT TURNIP TRUCK!
30703. jexster - 3/28/2002 12:34:52 PM
Kevin Phillips' new book, "Wealth and Democracy: A, Political History of the American Rich," will be published in May.
30704. OhioSTOPAS - 3/28/2002 12:42:29 PM
Julius (Message # 30686):
I certainly hope you selected those paragraphs from Jonah Goldberg's stupid screed to mock him.
"Liberals — agents of the government no less — invaded Robert Bork's private life, investigating his video rentals."
Didn't happen.
"Liberals . . . created a vast web of rules, laws, and secular customs designed to police the sexual lives of Americans."
Hahaha! There are politicians who want to police our sex lives, but they're on the other side of the aisle from liberals.
Will someone please wake up the editor of the National Review and tell him there's a kid using the word processor?
30705. jexster - 3/28/2002 12:45:20 PM
Julio, el puede ser corto pero él seguro es chistoso
Julio, he may be short but he sure is funny
30706. Cygnus X-1 - 3/28/2002 1:58:28 PM
Didn't happen.
Indeed it did. No amount of double-standard weasling will save you.
Hahaha! There are politicians who want to police our sex lives, but they're on the other side of the aisle from liberals.
Clinton himself signed the law that was used to ensnare him. True, it was only intended to be enforced on rich, white men (preferable Christians), but he signed it nonetheless.
30707. OhioSTOPAS - 3/28/2002 2:05:31 PM
Wrong.
Wrong, not that it matters.
30708. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 3/28/2002 2:12:24 PM
"If they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them!"
[Adlai Stevenson on the Republican party]
30709. Julius Caesar - 3/28/2002 2:12:53 PM
Ohio
I don't think it did happen. I'm pretty sure the Bork matter occurred because someone wrote a parody of his rentals (The City Paper) and then there was a quick law passed to make sure that if it did happen, the issuer of the information would be subject to significant damages. This is my sketchy recollection.
Goldberg's larger point -- that when it was convenient, the same people who decried the politics of personal destruction during the Clinton-era, were introducing it to Tower, Bork, and Thomas -- remains unaddressed by Ohio, as it involves the unpleasant combination of self-reflection, straightforwardness, and the ability to see inconsistency. Ohio is in good company.
30710. OhioSTOPAS - 3/28/2002 2:18:39 PM
Were there any non-idiotic paragraphs in Goldberg's article that would have illustrated his "larger point"?
30711. Julius Caesar - 3/28/2002 2:20:06 PM
You keep fighting the good fight, brother. There's always a place for pawns.
30712. OhioSTOPAS - 3/28/2002 2:28:06 PM
You're a much better water-carrier than I'll ever be, Julius, pretending to believe that Jonah Goldberg's biased, fact-challenged spewing has a "larger point".
30713. PelleNilsson - 3/28/2002 2:47:51 PM
Off-topic:
Wizard
When are you going to London? There is a chance I will be there at the end of June or beginning of July. It would be nice to hoist a pint.
30714. Cygnus X-1 - 3/28/2002 2:52:47 PM
Ohio: Wrong!
Person: You know, Clinton claims credit for Welfare Reform, but he really doesn't deserve it because he vetoed the bill twice before signing it because he was worried about losing the '96 election if he didn't.
Ohio: Wrong!
Person: You know, Ohio, Clinton lied in his deposition when he said he couldn't recall being along with Monica Lewinsky.
Ohio: Wrong!
Person: Don't you think that if you are giving deliberately obtuse testimony in order to hide the fact that you received oral sex from a woman, you would remember that you were indeed alone with that woman?
Ohio: Wrong!
Person: Enron stood to gain financially by the passage of the Kyoto Treaty yet Bush withdrew from the treaty anyway.
Ohio: Wrong!
30715. Cellar Door - 3/28/2002 3:15:45 PM
The sad truth of the matter is that Bork sealed his own fate when he said he wanted to join the Supremes because it would be "An intellectual feast."
For once Anti-intellectualism that hobbles this hapless culture was put to good use! You could feel the temperature in the room plummet --almost as fast as when Roy Cohn asked Joseph Welch what he meant by "Pixie" at the Army-McCarthy hearings .
Of course this isn't what Conservabot Scripture would have you believe, and they forced the appallingly second-rate Uncle Clarence on us ( Affirmative Action to the MANOR born)
Then Anita Hill surfaced, Scaife revved up his money machine, Bing Crosby brought Jazz up the river from New Orleans, and then came the Talkies !
30716. OhioSTOPAS - 3/28/2002 3:38:46 PM
(Message # 30714): Huh?
30717. Julius Caesar - 3/28/2002 4:05:44 PM
Wrong!
30718. jjbiener - 3/28/2002 4:21:44 PM
Ohio - Whether Golden Boy had a point or not in his article, Julius has point in his post which you are ignoring. That point is that the very people who complained so bitterly about the Politics of Personal Destruction when it was aimed at Clinton, took great pleasure in applying it liberally to Reagan, Bush and the vast majority of their administrations. While they were decrying its use out of one side of their mouth, they were using it against anyone who spoke out against Clinton with the other. Need we go over the reputations that were laid waste in Clinton's path?
30719. OhioSTOPAS - 3/28/2002 4:29:50 PM
Sure. Pick one.
30720. robertjayb - 3/28/2002 4:35:24 PM
Whitewater and the media...Joe Conason...
30721. Julius Caesar - 3/28/2002 4:35:26 PM
Anything to avoid addressing the point.
30722. Cellar Door - 3/28/2002 4:40:40 PM
You mean Iran-Contra was a "Personal matter," J.J.?
30723. jjbiener - 3/28/2002 4:52:09 PM
Cellar - Is Iran-Contra the sum total of your memory for the last 22 years?
30724. OhioSTOPAS - 3/28/2002 4:56:47 PM
Julius and JJ: No Republican President ever received personal attacks like Clinton did. Period.
Nor were Robert Bork and John Tower the first Presidential nominees ever to get a rough time from members of the opposing party, no matter what Professor of American History Jonah Goldberg says.
I think character attacks motivated by the attacker's political differences with the person attacked have been employed much more by conservatives than liberals, especially in the last 10 years.
30725. Julius Caesar - 3/28/2002 5:02:07 PM
Ohio
Either you are dancing around the issue or you really aren't bright enough to understand, but I am sure your post passes muster with someone. Perhaps jj will engage you, but I find that unlikely.
Your services as a fact-checker, however, remain invaluable.
30726. OhioSTOPAS - 3/28/2002 5:09:04 PM
Explain the issue I'm "dancing around", please.
30727. jjbiener - 3/28/2002 5:17:54 PM
Ohio - No Republican President ever received personal attacks like Clinton did. Period.
No Republican President has ever given the opposition so much fodder either.
Nor were Robert Bork and John Tower the first Presidential nominees ever to get a rough time from members of the opposing party
By 1992, the Democrats had spent the preceding 12 years playing dirty politics. They had to be either stupid or incredibly naive to believe that if they won the White House, the Republicans would not return in kind.
For them to nominate someone as personally flawed as Clinton was just asking for trouble. Clinton didn't earn the nickname Slick Willy for nothing. Yes, Clinton was an exceptional politician. I can't think of anyone who plays the game better. They had to know he was going to be a lightning rod for scandal.
You would think that knowing this, Clinton would have been on his best behavior. Instead he flouted his indiscretions and then sent his attack dogs to clean up the political mess and to rally the faithful.
I find it funny that Democrats complain so much about this when they are just as guilty, and when they were practically begging for it with Clinton.
I respect that you believe the right is more guilty than the left, but I submit that is more a function of your personal point of view rather than a reflection of reality.
30728. wonkers2 - 3/28/2002 5:53:41 PM
Surprise, to me at least, the ACLU is bringing suit against the recently passed campaign finance reform law. It violates their right of free speech,i.e., to run issue ads at election time.
30729. OhioSTOPAS - 3/28/2002 5:54:24 PM
"For them to nominate someone as personally flawed as Clinton was just asking for trouble."
Yes, Clinton was an adulterer. He should have known Gingrich, Hyde, Burton and Dole would nail him for that.
30730. jexster - 3/28/2002 6:21:19 PM
But at least he wasn't a crooked plutocrat...
30731. jexster - 3/28/2002 6:29:33 PM
Enron's rise, with the Bush family's help, in the 1990s rearranged the energy power structure in Texas and the nation, and put the Bush entourage in clover....If you combine what the multiple Bush generations received with what loyalists Vice President Dick Cheney, Baker, Mosbacher, political advisor Karl Rove, economic advisor Lawrence B. Lindsey and U.S. Trade Representative Robert Zoellick got, you certainly have $6 million to $8 million, and depending on the success of the Baker-Mosbacher-Enron joint investments, perhaps $20 million to $30 million.
The question now is whether what went up together will come down together. Kevin Phillips
30732. jexster - 3/28/2002 6:30:50 PM
That's Trade Rep, John "Free Trade For Sale" Zoellick, Jim Baker's "Second Brain" and GWB's First Whore
30733. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 3/28/2002 7:43:53 PM
Wizard
When are you going to London? There is a chance I will be there at the end of June or beginning of July. It would be nice to hoist a pint.
It would indeed be nice, Pelle, however I'll be there in April to (maybe) May. I will hoist one to you while I'm there, nevertheless!
30734. jexster - 3/28/2002 7:46:21 PM
Way to go Wiz!
U know that EuroTrash what with their 3 month long summer vacations...and the Evil Swedes I hear are the worst...next to the French with their BO
Nuke the bastards
30735. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 3/28/2002 8:18:55 PM
You're so fresh!
30736. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 3/28/2002 8:20:46 PM
. . . but I guess death will do that!
30737. jexster - 3/28/2002 8:22:41 PM
BumbleFucks Without End. Amen.
30738. jexster - 3/28/2002 8:56:21 PM
30739. robertjayb - 3/29/2002 12:43:26 AM
The Smoke Machine...Paul Krugman in the NYTimes...
Modern political economy teaches us that small, well-organized groups often prevail over the broader public interest. The steel industry got the tariff it wanted, even though the losses to consumers will greatly exceed the gains of producers, because the typical steel consumer doesn't understand what's happening.
"Blinded by the Right" shows that the same logic applies to non-economic issues. The scandal machine that employed Mr. Brock was, in effect, a special-interest group financed by a handful of wealthy fanatics — men like the Rev. Sun Myung Moon, whose cultlike Unification Church owns The Washington Times, and Richard Mellon Scaife, who bankrolled the scandal-mongering American Spectator and many other right-wing enterprises. It was effective because the typical news consumer didn't realize what was going on.
30740. jexster - 3/29/2002 1:01:28 AM
Well that's sorta like the "news" that the Oil Industry wrote the Bush energy policy now isn' it?
30741. concerned - 3/29/2002 2:40:15 AM
Re. 30740 -
No, you're just spewing another one of your ridiculous lies.
30742. concerned - 3/29/2002 2:44:18 AM
From MSNBC, Clowntoon's Legacy: Relentless Corruption
Excerpt:
But there is a common theme, which has to do with the quality that, in the end, made Clinton a most unusual president. It is not, Klein’s valiant efforts notwithstanding, a positive quality. What comes across as the most important source of Clinton’s uniqueness as president is the nearly unbelievable degree of his essential unfitness to be president — his profound immaturity, his pathological selfishness, his cynicism, above all his relentless corruption.
‘MORAL TURPITUDE’
Joe Klein finds it plausible that Clinton ordered bombings in Sudan and Afghanistan “to turn the nation’s attention away from the Lewinsky scandal.”
In Klein’s defense, Clinton emerges almost casually as “the apotheosis of his generation’s alleged sins: the moral relativism, the tendency to pay more attention to marketing than to substance, the solipsistic callowness,” possessed of an “angry, adolescent side,” given to “almost hilarious self-involvement,” and “childishness,” “a man who would actually poll whether or not he should tell the truth” and who suffered from “moral turpitude,” “a compendium of all that his accusers found most embarrassing, troubling and loathsome about themselves.” Klein finds it plausible that Clinton ordered up lethal bombings in Sudan and Afghanistan “to turn the nation’s attention away from the Lewinsky scandal.” This, mind you, in defense.
Wittes notes that Clinton’s conduct in the investigation was “consistently venal,” that Clinton “consistently placed his own interests ahead of the public interest,” that Clinton “had committed crimes and was determined not to face any accounting for them,” and that Clinton had “a pathological aversion to the truth.” This, mind you, in passing.
This was the Best of the 'Rats, mind you.
30743. jexster - 3/29/2002 8:43:35 AM
GOP Sources Confirm Growing Rift Between Krony Kapitialist Kourt and Congressional Republicans
30744. jexster - 3/29/2002 8:45:32 AM
I guess even Republicans have enough pride to say fuck you when insulted by a moron and imposter.
Bush's "my-way-or-the-highway" tactics and royal airs don't seem to be going down too well anywhere.
30745. jexster - 3/29/2002 8:47:04 AM
TDaschole OTOH he's a real fine Nazi Youth. He'll bend over for Bush/Cheney hosing any day of the week and twice on Sunday (the Lord's Day dontcha know)
30746. jexster - 3/29/2002 9:30:57 AM
Mr. Hastert asserted that the White House bore some blame for not coordinating its message better with Congress, a task that he credited the Clinton administration with managing more skillfully.
"If they need us to say something, they need to communicate with us," Mr. Hastert said. "Democrats were good at that. They picked the story line every day. The Clinton White House was excellent at it. If we're going to do that, we ought to organize from the White House."
30747. jexster - 3/29/2002 9:31:37 AM
Imagine all the while the GOP was out to cut his dick off.....that's courage, that's leadership
30748. joezan - 3/29/2002 9:40:13 AM
...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
30749. concerned - 3/29/2002 10:11:37 AM
Re. 30745 -
Jexster -
Fuck you, you Nazi.
30750. Cellar Door - 3/29/2002 10:26:24 AM
30751. jexster - 3/29/2002 10:33:22 AM
Ein Reich, Ein Volk, Ein Moron, Ein TDaschole
30752. jexster - 3/29/2002 10:34:00 AM
Sully hate almost everyone...another fag with a self-loathing thing
yawn
30753. jexster - 3/29/2002 10:54:17 AM
Yet another Bush/Chenron Hose Job..
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - While environmentalists have slammed the White House national energy plan for not doing enough to promote renewable energy, the Bush administration found those government research programs useful in paying the bill for printing copies of the 170-page plan.
The administration took money from the Energy Department's solar and renewable energy and energy conservation budgets to pay for the cost of printing its national energy plan.
Gee you'd think that the API should have paid for it.
30754. jexster - 3/29/2002 6:14:14 PM
"For a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times."—Tokyo, Japan, Feb. 18, 2002
Our History Major King...hehehhe..
The Boys at the Weekly Standard have their work cut out for them...redefining intelligence to rescue an Imbecile
30755. concerned - 3/29/2002 6:21:49 PM
Re. 30753 -
If there's any dirt to be found, jexster will get hisself a snootful of it, even if it amounts to nothing but a couple of dust mice.
30756. jexster - 3/29/2002 6:36:35 PM
That would be "dust mites" TD...
Imbecility must be catching
30757. concerned - 3/29/2002 6:40:43 PM
In that case, stay away from me. Btw, how would anybody not living in a barn not know about 'dust mice'?
30758. concerned - 3/29/2002 6:43:39 PM
Perhaps jexster has never heard of an useful implement called a 'broom', either.
30759. concerned - 3/29/2002 6:44:20 PM
Don't want to catch imbecility from jexster.
30760. jexster - 3/29/2002 7:29:31 PM
Are Brooms Useful for Dealing with Plagiarists (GWB - Policy Plagiarist)
For all that money you'd think that Big Oil could find one who could do the work without outside help
30761. jexster - 3/29/2002 7:32:18 PM
If Bush sold the Energy Department for a few million, how much for the Jews?
30762. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 3/29/2002 10:34:33 PM
30763. jexster - 3/30/2002 12:27:41 AM
A World Historical Joke.
30764. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 3/30/2002 12:45:22 AM
. . . unfortunately, we're all the sheepish butts of this joker.
30765. concerned - 3/30/2002 2:50:21 AM
Meanies, er, Greenies had easy access to Cheney Energy Task Force
Taking into account how dishonest some of these groups have been in public about their contributions to the energy task force, notably the Sierra Club and the NRDC, I think the energy task force went above and beyond the call of duty to coddle these spoiled lying brats who are now messing themselves trying to attack the Bush Administration.
30766. OhioSTOPAS - 3/30/2002 7:01:44 AM
Concerned: Read Message # 30658.
Hell, read ANYTHING other than the dishonest WTimes.
30767. Cygnus X-1 - 3/30/2002 7:56:20 AM
Yeah, concerned, stop reading that paper. What it reports may be true, but it doesn't help the cause. Rather, it just gets in the way of the socialist agenda, and so is in a sense dishonest.
Well, I guess it all depends on what the meaning of "dishonest" is. Or, the Washington Times "feels" dishonest because it doesn't serve the cause. How's that?
Now, the the NY Times. Now that's a paper that specializes in giving you an "editorial elbow in the ribs". Here's how the NY Times might have reported the story: The Bush energy task force did not ask any environmental groups to join the energy discussion more than 3 times and say "pretty please". This is a terrible situation (jab) and soon all of our water will be polluted (jab) and old people will be starving on the steets. (jab)
30768. wonkers2 - 3/30/2002 9:01:45 AM
30769. Cellar Door - 3/30/2002 10:14:22 AM
I wish we had more than one political party in this country.
30770. joezan - 3/30/2002 10:34:18 AM
Message # 30766:
It sure would be nice if a demo would address the substance of an article, instead of deriding its (perectly legitimate) source.
"No access" indeed.
30771. jexster - 3/30/2002 11:02:57 AM
WASHINGTON –– The investigative arm of Congress said Friday that the criminal investigation of former president Clinton and Hillary Rodham Clinton has cost $70 million.
The General Accounting Office's figures make the probe of the Clintons the most expensive in the history of the now-expired law under which court-appointed independent counsels investigated top political figures.
30772. jexster - 3/30/2002 11:10:16 AM
Yup the Democratic Leadership have not been as bold in criticising Bush as passing day the evidence mounts that those in charge (and that changes daily) haven't a clue what they are doing.
In fact the only discernable Bush policy is "lets find a war before the elections" (either one will do 2002 or 2004).
I think a great deal of the paralysis can be found in the fact that the climate inside the Beltway is quite different from that outside. Broder did a recent column on the subject. Foghorn Leghorn addressed it when he said "someday people in the town are going to sober up" but there is a diffence which my Senator's son buddy perceived after attending Mom's Big Party for their Senator friends. The Beltway based media contributes as their coverage acts much like a sound reverberator
30773. jexster - 3/30/2002 11:14:15 AM
But here at the Mote we are ahead of the curve...
30774. jexster - 3/30/2002 11:20:59 AM
I think I have addressed the substance on more than one occasion JoeZ but I will do so again...
API: "[The energy industry shall be considered in the case of] any substantive action by an agency that promulgates or is expected to lead the promulgation of a rule, regulation or policy, including but not limited to, notices of inquiry, advanced notices of proposed rule-making, notices of proposed rule making, and guidance documents."
Bush:"[The energy industry shall be considered in the case of] any action by an agency…that promulgates or is expected to lead to the promulgation of a final rule or regulation, including notices of inquiry, advanced notices of proposed rule-making, and notices of proposed rule-making."
The Energy Industry bought Bush and wrote YOUR national energy policy. The Task Force was a farce and a cover to launder the payback to creditors of the most expensive president ever.
I think they were robbed
30775. jexster - 3/31/2002 10:55:08 AM
"Washington -- There is a ticking time bomb in the federal budget due to explode a few months after the 2004 presidential election, affecting millions of Americans and potentially blowing a $300 billion hole in the budget over the next decade. "
71 in Economics Now Fuzzy in Math
30776. jexster - 4/1/2002 11:29:21 AM
Newsweek Cover Story - Citizen Clinton
The Big Dog smells blood..bush blood
30777. CalGal - 4/1/2002 2:08:19 PM
Jay,
Just following procedures, not that I expect it to do much good: Jex has some 23 of the last 40 posts in this thread, and it's been getting out of hand for a while. MsNo requests that complaints be made to thread hosts. Consider this a complaint.
30778. Cygnus X-1 - 4/1/2002 2:17:59 PM
Yes, while we should allow jexster his right to "issue advocacy", we can and should curtail his "express advocacy". jexster's abundant initiative, fuled by his irrational hatred for anyone or anything that allows people to excel without public approval, has led to a decidely unequal outcome. It is unfair to the rest of Moters who aren't motivated enough to post. We must bridge the posting divide. We must leave no Moter behind. And this, of course, is for the children.
30779. Cygnus X-1 - 4/1/2002 2:21:45 PM
Or, we could just listen to some dude who lives in another country that used to be an enemy (and therefore must be wiser than anyone in this country), Mikhail Gorbachev.
It would be good if no one paid attention to those who criticize Bush...
30780. jexster - 4/1/2002 5:22:25 PM
Bush Foreign Policy Team Hard At Work
30781. ronski - 4/1/2002 5:35:43 PM
I find that staying away for ever-lengthening periods of time is an excellent way of dealing with jexster's carpet-bombing.
I suspect that there are others who feel the same.
Pretty soon jexster may have no one to speak to but himself.
It would be a triumph of the free market that he so dislikes.
30782. jayackroyd - 4/1/2002 5:41:52 PM
As an extension to my policy of deleting, unannounced, needlessly abusive messages, I will begin moving spam to the inferno. I define spam as repeated messages with non-original content. This is supposed to be a discussion forum, not a collection of content from other sites.
I will not discuss these decisions, nor announce them.
30783. betty - 4/1/2002 5:48:34 PM
Yes, yes, the free market is good!
Yes yes, it gives us all food!
Yeah free market!
yeah free market!
Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!
30784. ronski - 4/1/2002 5:56:25 PM
Fabulous!
30785. betty - 4/1/2002 6:03:05 PM
do you think you could squeeze into her outfit ronski? I could help you do up your hair if you like.
30786. ronski - 4/1/2002 6:11:04 PM
I'm a bit blonder than she. Are you a good colorist?
30787. jexster - 4/1/2002 6:37:14 PM
James Carville takes over tonight on CROSSFIRE!
30788. jexster - 4/1/2002 6:53:44 PM
James C: We've got Pretty Boi Tucker Carlson here (since he lost 30 pounds -yum!) and we gon talk about this wildy successful MidEast policy...
30789. jexster - 4/1/2002 7:04:03 PM
"We're gonna kick some right wing ass"
30790. jexster - 4/1/2002 7:04:50 PM
Bashin Betty v. Ruthless Ronski...ten rounds
30791. jexster - 4/1/2002 7:08:37 PM
Al Gore Told You - Rising Drug Costs A Potent State and National Issue
Watch for Davis to GORE Simon...
Say speakin of that when is the WarLord going to come to Cali for Billi?
30792. betty - 4/1/2002 8:06:30 PM
ronski,
I was thinking we could start cultivating your inner whore...bleach out your natural color, lotsa lipstick, too much eyeshadow. Get you a date with the quarterback, who will date rape you just because he can and you won't say a damn thing because you don't want to make a big deal out of it.
30793. ronski - 4/1/2002 9:02:39 PM
Wrong. You just don't understand men.
He'll rape me because I want him to.
And it won't be a quarterback, but a tight end. I have standards, you know. And rather specific tastes.
(But I love the platinum hair, lipstick and eyeshadow idea.)
30794. betty - 4/1/2002 9:11:15 PM
He'll rape me because I want him to.
yes, date rape is rather like the free market.
30795. CalGal - 4/1/2002 9:16:16 PM
Bitching about Bush--from the right
But then this is a season of cynicism for the Bush administration. After six months of wonderfully moral handling of the war, suddenly Dick Morris seems to be running things. First there was the dreadful decision on the steel tariffs, then the McCain-Feingold maneuver, and then the cynical turn of our policy in the Middle East. In his State of the Union address George Bush mentioned Hamas and Islamic Jihad as junior partners in the axis of evil. Now the United States has wrapped itself so tightly around the Zinni-Tenet-Mitchell axle we find ourselves excusing Islamist terrorists, rewarding the leaders who sponsor terror, and condemning Israel for trying to combat terror.
A few people have compared Bush's turnarounds to Clinton's triangulation. I don't see how. It's not as if Bush is moving towards the center to popular positions that will win him converts from the other side. CFR is pretty much a dead issue in the polls, and the way he waffled out of signing it was really pretty disgusting. Any minor gain he made with labor was offset by the fury of his party--almost everyone in his party, not just the stalwart fringe--and again, this only benefitted a few states and may come back to haunt him big time.
So what is he thinking?
30796. ronski - 4/1/2002 9:17:26 PM
As long as both parties profit from the deal, I'm happy.
(But actually, I've been trying to keep the inner whore sound asleep, for more than a few years now.)
30797. wonkers2 - 4/1/2002 9:20:04 PM
There was an interesting Op-ed in today's Wall Streety Journal by ? Bartley about a recent interview he had with Pres. Bush. He asked why his father lost his second election. Young Bush hesitated a bit and replied that his father failed to capitalize on his 89% rating after the Gulf War. Well this cartoon shows how Bush is trying to avoid following in his father's footsteps This Evil Man poses the greatest threat.
30798. ronski - 4/1/2002 9:20:19 PM
I think criticism of the steel sellout was sadly muted.
30799. CalGal - 4/1/2002 9:22:11 PM
Seriously? The Wall Street Journal, The Weekly Standard, David Broder, the New York Times financial analysts--this isn't enough for you?
30800. ronski - 4/1/2002 9:26:30 PM
Nope.
I would have liked to see a GOP elected-official rebellion.
Pundits are powerless, relatively speaking.
30801. joezan - 4/1/2002 9:33:28 PM
Actually, the story was buried by other events. It would have gotten a lot more play at just about any other time.
Domestic issues just can't cut it now.
30802. Two-Minute Hate - 4/1/2002 9:37:47 PM
Speaking of X-42, check out his new Newsweak interview.
How can Americans miss the egomaniac if he won't go away?
30803. jexster - 4/1/2002 9:49:00 PM
Big Dog ready for Bush-maulin...
Check it out...linked this morning!
Its no accident that The Big Dog appears on the cover of Newsweek and James Carville debuts on teh Clinton News Network...
30804. jexster - 4/1/2002 9:57:19 PM
30805. ronski - 4/1/2002 10:13:12 PM
joezan,
Some truth to what you say. But I am reminded of Rush Limbaugh merely decrying that because Bush was criticized for forking over only 30% tariffs instead of the 40% the socialists demanded, "You can never satisfy these people." Pretty timid stuff.
Not like, "We're going to do to you what we did to D'Amato when he morphed into a leftist, and stay home on election day."
Sigh.
30806. ronski - 4/1/2002 10:17:13 PM
While I grew to dislike both the Clintons, and mostly wish Bubba would shut up, I must say that the ex-prez's notion that conservatives (neo-cons) felt they had some sort of divine right to rule is not without some basis.
30807. CalGal - 4/1/2002 10:22:26 PM
I think it made a big splash. I am the sort who does not track tariffs, and I was made quite familiar with the subject due purely to outrage. And there are several articles this week on the GOP Congress' anger with Bush.
I think your hope of open rebellion is unrealistic. As it was, the response was clear, unambiguous, and I noted almost no waffling on the part of the right.
30808. ronski - 4/1/2002 10:27:45 PM
Two different worlds, we live in two different worlds...
I may be a subspecies of Republican, but I still don't vote for them very often, since they evince no principles I can identify (except for homophobia).
I thought the GOP response to the tariffs pathetic.
30809. wonkers2 - 4/1/2002 10:42:28 PM
Clinton & Gore & Bush
Clinton analyzes what public policy should be on important issues and what voters are likely to think about his positions but doesn't let his concern for this show; and he generally articulates his positions with a lot of self confidence.
Gore analyzes public policy issues and agonizes about what the voters and other people in general will think about his positions until it's painfully obvious; and every once in a while he says something really stupid, e.g., his contribution to the Internet or being the inspiration for the hero in Love Story.
Bush is incapable of and not interested in more than superficial analysis of public policy issues; he cares mostly about what the cro-magnon right thinks about his positions; and he frequently makes confusing and inconsistent statements about his policies.
30810. CalGal - 4/1/2002 10:46:38 PM
thought the GOP response to the tariffs pathetic.
In Congress? So what? They are hardly going to openly rebel. They are, nonetheless, squashing the Pres in a number of ways.
30811. concerned - 4/2/2002 1:47:23 AM
I may be a subspecies of Republican, but I still don't vote for them very often, since they evince no principles I can identify (except for homophobia).
Maybe you just aren't very good at identifying principles, period.
30812. judithathome - 4/2/2002 10:45:37 AM
Interesting, if a bit long, article on the polls the Bush team use to craft GW's policies. Read at least as far as the section entitled "Bush's Brain"....
The Other War Room
30813. wonkers2 - 4/2/2002 12:55:40 PM
Bush's Great Social Security Hoax: Connect the Dots
30814. jexster - 4/3/2002 2:41:56 PM
JAH...bad month for 109109 and his touting of Bush of Principled Soul and Redefined Intellect.
He lost the no polling loogie, steel, and Texas Longhorn Turd Wisdom all in the past 2-3 weeks.
As writer of fiction, though, Julio has found a reason to live
30815. robertjayb - 4/3/2002 2:57:19 PM
30816. jexster - 4/3/2002 4:26:06 PM
ATTENTION WINGNUTS!
KRUGMAN SEDITION NEARING TREASON....
Andrew Sullivan - big surprise - turned out to be a big fat fag.
Now Krugman has insulted our WarLord to His Face.
This cannot continue. Time to bring out the heavy artillery -Conintern Crusader Batteries, Limbaugh Legions - the whole nine yards.
(CNSNews.com) - For as long as official Washington can remember, the annual Gridiron Club Dinner has given reporters, politicians and various VIPs a chance to let down their hair, laugh at themselves and enjoy an evening of satirical song, roasts and good-natured teasing.
But one national columnist and critic of President Bush and his policies reportedly couldn't abide by the long-standing spirit of the Gridiron Club festivities, and his behavior at the March 9 event still has some Bush administration officials buzzing with criticism and disbelief.
New York Times columnist and Princeton University economist Paul Krugman reportedly "stuck out like a sore thumb," at the dinner by refusing to applaud President Bush, Vice President Cheney or any other Bush administration officials, according to people who attended the exclusive affair.
A senior White House official said on background that Krugman "applauded Sen. (Tom) Daschle and (Washington, D.C. Delegate) Eleanor Holmes Norton, but refused to applaud any of the military leaders who were announced, nor did he applaud the president, the vice president or any members of the president's staff. He just applauded for one party."
Cut his balls off.
That is all.
30817. judithathome - 4/3/2002 5:02:34 PM
Here's more on Bush and his fondness for POLLS.
30818. concerned - 4/3/2002 6:11:49 PM
JAH -
You have to admit he's got more excuse than a certain *cough* ex president.
30819. concerned - 4/3/2002 7:17:17 PM
"C'mon, punk. Make my Day. Just try to name a x42 policy."
30820. judithathome - 4/3/2002 7:18:18 PM
I don't have to admit anything about that punk.
30821. arkymalarky - 4/3/2002 8:21:09 PM
What bird legs.
30822. jexster - 4/3/2002 8:35:13 PM
I said it was coming but missed by a mile the time.
In polite diploSpeak, the EU has declared Bush irrelevant.
Whoever told that dimwit about "Bully Pulpits" didn't do him any favor.
30823. wonkers2 - 4/3/2002 9:22:01 PM
Conservative Republicans Like Concerned Are Becoming Bush's Biggest Foes
30824. Erinys - 4/4/2002 12:54:44 AM
OK.
30825. concerned - 4/4/2002 12:55:59 AM
I'm no 'conservative Republican', of course. Political centrism; that's for me.
30826. Erinys - 4/4/2002 12:57:12 AM
OK, I say again.
30827. concerned - 4/4/2002 1:01:02 AM
That's not the point that wonkers' link is making, IAC. GWB has been sustaining popularity numbers for over half a year that x42 would rape for.
30828. Erinys - 4/4/2002 1:06:39 AM
You're waggling a piece of meat I don't understand and I'm not ready for.
30829. jexster - 4/4/2002 1:09:47 AM
Its all over TDaschole...the imbecile is fallin apart faster than that bright new Easter seersucker Aunt Norma bought for you down to the Dry Goods store....
1/2 mile wide, silly milimeter deep...he's got no war to fight and no domestic policy that anyone gives a flyin rats about
and this ummer will be Enron Hell...
Why even the Conintern wignuts (Lott, Delay, Weekly Standard, WSJ Loons) are sharpening their knives.
But just think of it this way...in every moron's life a little rain must fall...
Count blessings...3 more years of sophorific sermons on Evil
30830. jexster - 4/4/2002 1:12:13 AM
And did you hear...
You idiots been hosed again..this time on polls..."Oh he's man of integrity, not polls, a leader not a pander bear"
And free trader too
And fighter of terrorists and anyone who looks twice at one...
He's fuckin mental midget with a half-baked ideology and a religious retardation
30831. Erinys - 4/4/2002 1:16:41 AM
Hello! I'm not an idiot!
30832. jexster - 4/4/2002 9:43:06 AM
Of course you aren't.
Julio is.
Bush is.
And speaking of the most stoopid president now or ever..
Bush Hopes to Reduce Steel Tariff Heat With a Few Free Trade Proposals
Gee I didn' t know being prez was so damned easy. Layk maykyn Mizz lauruh's lemin pye....a little of this, a pinch of that...oven
TD could be president
30833. jexster - 4/4/2002 11:01:53 AM
Bush policy shifts AGAIN...PantyWaist Powell to go Middle East...Cheney to return to life support...
Tom DeLay, Billy Kristol, WSJ call for impeachment
Julio lookin for Bush polling data
30834. jexster - 4/4/2002 11:11:07 AM
Blair to Bush: Act Now on Middle East
Who in the fuck runs this country anyway? Our unelected Presidunce or some slimey limey EuroTrash?
30835. judithathome - 4/4/2002 11:19:14 AM
Bush is really in trouble now...he made Oprah mad.
30836. jexster - 4/4/2002 11:22:41 AM
He's also made Tom DeLay mad...
He best watch it, the Weekly Standard is going to start making fun of his retardation.
30837. jexster - 4/4/2002 11:41:36 AM
President for Sale to Highest Bidder...goin once goin twice SOLD to the oil man in the ten gallon hat
Executive Order Followed Energy Industry Recommendation, Documents Show
I think we need to hear something about the WH Rapist.
Blinded by the right
30838. jexster - 4/4/2002 11:44:06 AM
I see this as yet another example of the energy industry holding the pen for the president," said Sharon Buccino, a senior lawyer at the Natural Resources Defense Council, which sued for the documents released last week by the Energy Department.
30839. jexster - 4/4/2002 12:16:10 PM
Lawrence Kaplan: Why WarLord Bush is Now Irrelevant
30840. bubbaette - 4/4/2002 12:21:57 PM
I saw Jon Stewart on the Daily show ragging on Oprah because she wasn't accompanying Bush to Afghanistan. What kind of way is that to treat people? Invite them and if they decline because of previous engagements, bitch to the press? You dare not decline a hastily-arranged photo op with the Pres or he'll trash you?
Seems to me the fault lies with Bush's advance people, not with Oprah.
30841. jexster - 4/4/2002 12:23:07 PM
Remember where first you heard this...this is from a ChickenHawk
ut the principal reason the Bush administration can't intervene effectively in the crisis is that it can't make up its mind. Actually, it has two of them. And that's not likely to change. One, the "even-handed" approach, resides primarily at the State Department and is exemplified by Powell, Policy Planning Director Richard Haass, Assistant Secretary of State William Burns and his deputy David Satterfield, Ambassador to Israel David Kurtzer, and others. The other consists of the White House--where Cheney, his staff, and increasingly the president himself tout a line barely distinguishable from Sharon's--and the Pentagon, where officials like Undersecretary of Defense Douglas Feith and Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz have in the past taken an even harder line.
And THAT folks is all you need to know about Bush Foreign Policy decision making, and Bush as a weak leader of strong personalities.
30842. jexster - 4/4/2002 12:36:20 PM
What Bush and Powell can't accept is that Mitchell and Tenet are neither loved nor hated; they're simply irrelevant.
And so is Bush.
30843. judithathome - 4/4/2002 2:34:55 PM
Just heard that Bush is pushing for expanded trade powers...where he could make decisions Congress would have no power to change later on.
Great...I remember his history with trades on his baseball team.
30844. jexster - 4/4/2002 3:57:45 PM
Bush Wants Senate to Pass Trade Bills by April 22
No.
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I guess he didn't get the Word...
Well WordUp...I think we should investigate steel tariffs first...after all if the WarLord is about to start a trade war to replace the Gulf War II that Cheney fucked up, I think that the People should keep tight rein on the Moron's bullets so he don't hurt anybody
Texas Rangers - Well known for having the highest payroll to wins ratio in baseball.
30845. jexster - 4/4/2002 4:00:15 PM
Barry Bonds..4 home runs...2 games....
To be fair though, the Rangers acquired Ivan "Pug" Rodriguez during the Imbecile's reign giving them the lowest dollars to beautiful player ratio
30846. jexster - 4/4/2002 6:28:28 PM
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A leading Senate Democrat on Thursday insisted that Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge formally testify before Congress after the White House said he would brief informally two House of Representatives committees on U.S. counter-terrorism efforts.
Drawing out a dispute over congressional versus presidential powers, Senate Appropriations Committee Chairman Robert Byrd of West Virginia rejected Ridge's offer to meet on an informal basis to explain the Bush administration's $38 billion homeland security funding request for next year.
30847. jexster - 4/4/2002 6:36:35 PM
"The Supreme Court has worked hard this term to repair the damage wrought by the grotesque political partisanship they evinced in deciding Bush v. Gore. Justices have published books, given speeches, done good deeds, and tried to appear accessible....But try as it may, the court won't be able to avoid controversy forever. Soon it will be called on to decide the constitutionality of campaign-finance reform."
The Odds For Another Grotesque Court Decision - Campaign Finance
30848. wonkers2 - 4/4/2002 8:36:38 PM
Having Ridge testify isn't an issue that I can get worked up about one way or the other.
30849. jexster - 4/5/2002 1:43:31 AM
Becoming ever less relevant with each passing hour...
In Kabul, Musharraf Spurns U.S. Aid in Hunting Qaeda
Damn and we thought Miss Laura's Lemon Chiffon stole his heart.
30850. jexster - 4/5/2002 1:44:42 AM
Live by the diktat die by the fiat.
30851. OhioSTOPAS - 4/5/2002 6:07:13 AM
Message # 30847: Since striking down campaign finance reform will help Republicans and conservatives politically (which one can infer from the denunciations of this legislation from the right wing), consider it struck.
30852. ronski - 4/5/2002 7:29:56 AM
The Incumbency Protection Act of 2002 will be struck down because, despite the many shortcomings of this court, there are enough justices on it to know a blatant attack on the constitutional protection of free speech by power-hungry politicians aided and abetted by the media when they see it.
30853. OhioSTOPAS - 4/5/2002 8:02:16 AM
A question about campaign finance law which I am too lazy to figure out for myself:
Under the law as it until recently existed (i.e., before the just-passed campaign finance reform legislation), would it have been a violation of law for independent supporters of candidate Jones to finance and air a TV commercial that urged "Vote for Jones" without disclosing who the donors are (i.e., without complying with the rules that would pertain to contributions directly to the Jones campaign)?
(I think it would have been illegal since producers of so-called "issue ads" take pains to avoid the magic words "vote for . . ." or "vote against . ." even in commercials that are clearly urging a vote for a particular candidate.)
If so, what is the distinction from a First Amendment standpoint of the new law, which would apply the same disclosure standards to a commercial that says "Tell candidate Jones you agree with his stand in favor of families, lower taxes and apple pie" as one that says "Vote for Jones"?
30854. jexster - 4/5/2002 10:28:11 AM
"The president is going to find himself with less and less maneuvering room," said conservative activist Gary L. Bauer. "Attitudes are hardening on the right of the Republican Party about this."
On top of that risk, analysts said the administration's prospects for success are not good. "There was rising pressure on him to speak, but this was a high-stakes gamble and I doubt [Secretary of State Colin L.] Powell will be able to pull a rabbit out of his hat," said James A. Phillips, a Middle East specialist at the conservative Heritage Foundation.
Haahahahahahhahahhahahaha
30855. jexster - 4/5/2002 11:35:17 AM
Hillary Endorses Davis - Senator Clinton's Trip to Golden State to Add 1 Million Smacker to War Chest
We're still waiting for the WarLord to make his appearance on behalf of Simon.
Garry South is ready to greet him
30856. jexster - 4/5/2002 11:39:15 AM
Secret Taiwan Fund Sought Friends, Influence Abroad - Bush Implicated
Holding my breath for the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy to hop right on this one.
Dan Burton, WSJ, Weakly Standard - the usual suspects
30857. jexster - 4/5/2002 11:53:51 AM
Ari Fleischer's use of a press conference on the crisis in the Middle East to shill for the Bush energy plan shows the administration's lack of decency.
Krugman
The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy has got to find an attack dog with teeth for this troublemaker.
Sully wears dentures.
Don't send a fag to do a MAN's work fellas
30858. jexster - 4/5/2002 11:58:11 AM
Even at its peak, a decade or so after drilling began, oil production from the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge would reduce imports by no more than would a 3-mile-per-gallon increase in fuel efficiency — something easily achievable, were it not for opposition from special interest groups.
President FoR Sale to Highest Bidder
Please Submit Bids By FAX 202-456-2461
30859. Cygnus X-1 - 4/5/2002 12:01:25 PM
"It would be good if no one paid attention to those who criticize Bush..."
- Mikhail Gorbachev
30860. ronski - 4/5/2002 12:29:29 PM
The egregious part of the new law is that which prohibits supporters of a candidate from running ads publicizing (and criticizing) the position of that candidate's opponent in the last two months of a campaign: the ads that go something like this --
"Tell Senator Foghorn that you oppose his coddling of criminals." And the like.
That part of the law will be struck down
But I don't much care for any laws limiting money spent on campaigns. I think they all infringe on free speech.
30861. jexster - 4/5/2002 12:30:02 PM
Damn right..
I'm forwarding your post to Tom DeLay, William Kristol, Bill Bennett, Dennis Hastert, Trent Lott, Jerry Falwell, and the editors of the Wall Street Journal...
You'll let us know what they say won't you?
30862. jexster - 4/5/2002 12:31:43 PM
"It would be good for Bush if no one paid attention to those who criticize Bush..."
- Mikhail Gorbachev
30863. ronski - 4/5/2002 12:39:14 PM
jexster,
Please do. They should be reminded they have gay supporters on some key issues.
30864. OhioSTOPAS - 4/5/2002 2:41:45 PM
Ronski: Contrary to your Message # 30860, under the new legislation (as I understand it) the supporters of Senator Foghorn's opponent CAN run a pre-election ad saying "Tell Senator Foghorn you oppose his coddling of criminals".
However, any such ad may only be financed under the same terms as contributions to the campaign of the Senator's opponent, e.g. no donations by corporations, disclosure of contributors, etc. Correct?
30865. Cygnus X-1 - 4/5/2002 3:02:59 PM
Ohio, re 30864:
Not exactly. Only supporters of Senator Foghorn who form a PAC can finance ads within 60 days of an election. This will be struck down because PACs are limited in the amount that can be contributed to them. Since the Suprememe Court has held that there is no difference between limiting campaign expenditures and limiting campaign speech, how can they then claim there is a difference between limitations on candidates and limitations on independent groups? The answer is, of course, they can't. That is unless they expand their tendency to determine what a law should mean rather than what it actually does mean.
30866. Cygnus X-1 - 4/5/2002 3:34:36 PM
It all comes down to whether or not you believe the government can know our thoughts. Supporters of CFR claim that ADM only contributes $xx.xx to Senator Foghorn because they're expecting something in return. Even if in actuality this is true 100% of the time, how can anyone other than ADM know it to be true? How do you know that ADM, a proponent of ethanol, doesn't take out ads in support of Senator Foghorn, who advocates ethanol usage, because they feel it is the most effective way of promoting ethanol usage? Given this reasonable doubt, how can you limit ADM's expenditure in its campaign for ethanol usage?
30867. jexster - 4/5/2002 4:13:17 PM
I dunno Cyg..ADM funds the GOP more than demos...ask them..ask David Brinkley but don't bother asking Mikail Gorbachev.
30868. jexster - 4/5/2002 4:14:06 PM
I am into education policy now...American not Russian...
OUT OF THE MOUTHS OF SEVENTH GRADERS...
Just got off the bus where I eavesdropped a conversation among some seventh graders. Between talk of where to get red vines and soccer, one kid gave a rather lucid analysis of education policy.
He’d just taken one of those state “how well is your school doing” tests (“so easy”).
“But you know what’s messed up about those tests?”
“What?”
“If your school does REALLY well, they cut their funding, but if does REALLY bad, they close it down.”
30869. jexster - 4/5/2002 4:14:46 PM
Make that boy President...I bet he'd cost less than Bush.
30870. jexster - 4/5/2002 10:08:47 PM
Deep In the Heart of ... a Mess - GWB Trying to Turn U.S. Into Texas (Molly Ivins)
And Thomas Freidman thinks that the Clash of Civilizations is in the Middle East.
JAH/Robt....All right thinkin personnel should leave as soon as possible.
This means war.
30871. OhioSTOPAS - 4/6/2002 7:02:26 AM
30865: "Since the Suprememe Court has held that there is no difference between limiting campaign expenditures and limiting campaign speech, how can they then claim there is a difference between limitations on candidates and limitations on independent groups?"
The difference, recognized by the Supreme Court, is that money spent ON BEHALF OF a candidate BY OTHERS may be a means of bribery or other corruption, and therefore may be limited in amount or otherwise regulated. (This consideration is absent when the candidate is spending his/her own money (no matter how obtained), and therefore limits on the CANDIDATE'S political spending are generally unconstitutional.)
The issue presented by the new campaign finance reform law is, I think, whether regulations that could be applied to a contribution to candidate Jones can be applied to the contributor's purchase of an advertisement that says "Vote for Jones" or "Tell Jones's opponent that you don't approve of ____________". It seems to me that the same anti-corruption concerns that justify the former also justify the latter.
30872. OhioSTOPAS - 4/6/2002 7:06:14 AM
30866: If you're saying that a donor has a constitutional right to give an unlimited amount of money to a candidate, or on behalf of a candidate, unless there is PROOF that a bribe is intended, that has never been the law.
30873. OhioSTOPAS - 4/6/2002 7:49:16 AM
David Brooks of the Weekly Standard explains it all (www.weeklystandard.com, April 1 article):
"THOSE ENERGY lobbyists are a lame bunch. They are lavishly funded by the oil industry. They get to work in fancy institutes and have open dining at The Palm. And look at how little influence they actually have on the Bush energy plan. Here's the biggest piece of legislation of the decade for them. And do they have any significant impact on it? No!
"I realize the press is full of stories about how the lobbyists practically wrote the bill. But don't be a lazy reporter. Be a real human being and read the substance of what they managed to put into the legislation: a provision saying that if an environmental measure is enacted then the agency enacting it should assess whether the measure will disrupt the energy supply and if it does, it should come up with recommendations for alternative ways to get the energy.
"That's it! That's what all the media hyperventilating is about. An Energy Impact Statement. . . ."
A Gold Top to Brooks for his determined spinning on behalf of the Republican Party. A less loyal operative would have acknowledged that the lobbyist's authoring of this Executive Order is merely the highlight of documents released SO FAR (many of which are heavily redacted), and that the Administration continues to refuse to discuss what actually went on between it and the energy lobby. It might also be acknowledged that this unprecedented "energy impact statement" could be a significant obstacle to an agency's taking of lawful action to protect the environment. But Brooks is made of stronger stuff.
(Now, Jexster, aren't you ashamed of yourself for maligning our dedicated Energy Task Force?)
30874. jexster - 4/6/2002 11:18:42 AM
Ohio you must stop reading the WS and WSJ editorial page...that's what the Bushies read and THAT's why our Middle East policy is such a muddled mess...
Sharply seguing...
Today's Washington Post offers a good glimpse into the bureaucratic infighting between the ChickenHawks and the PantyMan Powell..What we have is not a policy but a temporizing compromise of a weak leader and two powerful forces...the communist infiltrated state department and the righteous guardians of morals and good order in the WSJ editorial board...Paul Gigot, Mullah-in-charge
here
30875. jexster - 4/6/2002 11:37:01 AM
The Compassionately Conservative, Education President, Another Bush Hose Job
30876. jexster - 4/6/2002 11:42:24 PM
"A leader is somebody who is willing to take positions based on principle, not polls or focus groups."
—George W. Bush, as quoted by Bob Kemper in the Chicago Tribune, Oct. 29, 2000.
"A Washington Monthly analysis of Republican National Committee disbursement filings revealed that Bush's principal pollsters received $346,000 in direct payments in 2001. Add to that the multiple boutique polling firms the administration regularly employs for specialized and targeted polls and the figure is closer to $1 million."
—Joshua Green, "The Other War Room," in the Washington Monthly, April 2002.
30877. jexster - 4/7/2002 10:45:03 AM
The Arab foreign ministers said that what Bush considers terrorism is justified resistance against an occupying army.
"The continuation of the Israeli occupation necessitates the continuation of the resistance as a legitimate, expected and necessary reaction," the ministers' statement said.
They blamed the United States for not holding Israel adequately accountable for its treatment of the Palestinians or for its adherence to international law, and warned that U.S. interests would suffer if the situation continued.
Boy that crack foreign policy team, you know the one that the Republicans touted during their covention, recalling the halcyon days of George I, Stormin Norman and all that...
Another hose job
30878. jexster - 4/7/2002 12:15:26 PM
This isn't the first time the Bush administration has engaged in "hitchhiking," using a crisis to promote a pre-existing agenda that has nothing to do with that crisis. A year ago it was trying to promote drilling in the wildlife refuge as the answer to electricity shortages in California ? a connection as far-fetched, if you think about it, as the alleged connection between arctic drilling and the war on terror. And the administration has shamelessly exploited Sept. 11 to cover its fiscal tracks, pretending ? in flat contradiction of the facts ? that the war on terror is the reason those huge projected surpluses have vanished, and that tax cuts have nothing to do with it.
30879. Cellar Door - 4/7/2002 1:10:07 PM
30880. jexster - 4/7/2002 4:25:44 PM
sshhhhhhhhh Cellar, quiet now...listen...
Why I think I can almost hear the derisive laughter from the Quai d'Orsay!
Can you TomDaschole, can you hear it?
30881. jexster - 4/7/2002 9:05:41 PM
"It looks like an administration tough enough to wage war in Afghanistan and target Iraq could not withstand a few days of heckling from the European Union and the New York Times,"
Remember the Bush Doctrine? Kristol/Kagan, Weekly Standard
30882. jexster - 4/7/2002 9:07:53 PM
The Pernicious PantyWaist Powell...he's to blame...go git 'im!
30883. concerned - 4/8/2002 1:24:41 PM
30884. judithathome - 4/8/2002 1:26:50 PM
She must be taking lessons from Bush...
30885. judithathome - 4/8/2002 1:33:37 PM
GW is speaking in Knoxville Tennessee right now and I think he got some heckling right at the first of his speech...it sounded like a group was chanting something but I couldn't swear to it. Little matter, anyhow...he's getting applause for every other sentence, as usual.
30886. judithathome - 4/8/2002 1:36:35 PM
Okay...there were definately protesters. He paused and looked over and up and so did the crowd...then they went wild with applause as the malcontentes were evidently escorted out.
Either that or he lost his place on the teleprompter...
30887. thoughtful - 4/8/2002 1:37:16 PM
J@h...the applause...that's for successfully completing a sentence?
30888. judithathome - 4/8/2002 1:38:52 PM
I'm wondering if there were protests, will CNN and the other networks report it?
30889. betty - 4/8/2002 1:48:05 PM
judith,
as a long time protester and activist my prediction is: No, it will not be reported! And even if it is, nobody will give a shit, it will just make all the Bush ass suckers go "See Mother, that's what we're up against. Those peasants think they are entitled to a domacratic process! Puh-shaw."
30890. betty - 4/8/2002 1:48:37 PM
oh that's some nice spellin' there.
30891. betty - 4/8/2002 1:50:31 PM
Zen Koan:
if your throw a demo and nobody comes did you really throw a demo at all?
30892. Julius Caesar - 4/8/2002 2:56:44 PM
THE SEVEN MONTH REPORT
51 Democrats
49 Republicans
SENATE RACES
7 GOP Vulnerables/8 Democrat vulnerables
(the ones in italics will be the truly close races)
AR Hutchison(R)/Pryor(D) - DEM PICKUP
CO Allard(R)/Strickland(D) - GOP HOLD
GA Chambliss(R)/Cleland(D) - DEM HOLD
IA Ganske(R)/Harkin(D) - DEM HOLD
LA Cooksey(R)/Landrieu(D) - DEM HOLD
MN Coleman(R)/Wellstone(D) - GOP PICKUP
MO Talent(R)/Carnahan(D) - GOP PICKUP
MT Taylor(R)/Baucus(D) - DEM HOLD
NH Smith or Sununu(R)/Shaheen(D) - DEM PICKUP
NC Dole(R)/Bowles(D) - GOP HOLD
NJ ?(R)/Toricelli(D) - DEM HOLD
OR Smith (R)/Bradbury(D) - GOP HOLD
SC Graham(R)/Sanders(D) - GOP HOLD
SC Thune(R)/Johnson(D) - GOP PICKUP
TN Alexander or Bryant(R)/Ford - GOP HOLD
50/50, Cheney breaks the tie, Daschle removes defribillators from Senate first aid area, McCain switches to the Democrats, and Zell Miller switches to the Republicans - Departments of Commerce, Judiciary and HUD moved to Atlanta.
30893. CalGal - 4/8/2002 3:01:12 PM
Do we have two states with the initials SC, or were you perhaps thinking of one of the Dakotas?
30894. Indiana Jones - 4/8/2002 3:29:11 PM
Should be SD.
Also, Demo nominee from Tennessee will almost certainly be Bob Clement. Unless the situation has changed recently, Demos were going to run Clement as a unity candidate with Ford likely to seek Frist's seat in 2004.
Normally Tennessee is a Republican lock these days--Gore couldn't even carry it--but the Republican governor (Sundquist) has ticked off a lot of people by backtracking on a "no state income tax" pledge. The state budget is in shambles, and no one is happy on the local level.
If Alexander gets the nomination, he starts with a high negative rating. Don't know much about Bryant, but my impression is he's a dim bulb.
Had Thompson run again, of course the Republicans would have had a landslide.
30895. Indiana Jones - 4/8/2002 3:31:24 PM
Addendum: Bryant was one of the impeachment managers IIRC.
30896. Cellar Door - 4/8/2002 4:48:22 PM
Interesting take on David Brock.
30897. Property of Jesus - 4/8/2002 4:50:47 PM
Latest polls give Bush an 82% approval rating.
What's with those other 18 percent?
30898. wonkers2 - 4/8/2002 4:57:28 PM
Good piece on Brock. Or seems so, anyway. People do what they think they have to do to get traction.
30899. concerned - 4/8/2002 5:07:28 PM
Re. 30897 -
How many interns would x42 have to rape to reach those numbers?
Sorry. There aren't enough Democrats to swing the polls that high.
30900. judithathome - 4/8/2002 5:12:52 PM
The other 18% must have been in Knoxville today, protesting him.
30901. davenhill - 4/8/2002 5:14:15 PM
Anyone care to speculate on the odds of McCain jumping parties? Or going Independent? Given the amount of continuing abuse he receives at the hands of the current administration and party leaders, I would bet the odds are closing on 50-50, especial after the recent snub on CFR (no signing ceremony, no invitations, and Bush jumped straight onto a plane to raise funds before the clock strikes, and his minions immediately challenged the law's constitutionality).
And as a possibly related issue - who in the hell are the democrats going to run against Bush, anyway?
30902. CalGal - 4/8/2002 5:17:40 PM
I don't think it pays to ignore Gore's chances. Edwards seems too inexperienced, Lieberman doesn't have enough....oomph, or something. Dashchle is too mild.
McCain won't jump parties and I don't see any advantage for him to run as an independent. I'd be happy with him running against Bush again, though.
30903. wonkers2 - 4/8/2002 5:17:56 PM
McCain would be tough. So would Powell. He could run as an independent or as a Democrat and get elected.
30904. judithathome - 4/8/2002 5:19:20 PM
Hey, Daven...welcome to the Mote!
I think the Democrats have a hard slot to fill...it seems Bush is going to coast to a second term on the coattails of his stellar performance in his first. Of course, the first one isn't over yet...people might wake up to the fact he's just doing well in one part of his job, not in all of it.
30905. CalGal - 4/8/2002 5:22:00 PM
I don't think anyone can get elected as an independent these days. All they can do is play spoiler.
30906. wonkers2 - 4/8/2002 5:26:35 PM
You're probably right. Perot was hardly a good test. Powell or McCain would have a better chance. I tend to frown on independents who like Nader who turn out to be spoilers. The two party system is one of the best things we have.
30907. judithathome - 4/8/2002 5:28:15 PM
I'd bet Powell, if he survives this administration, will be out of the political arena for good.
30908. wonkers2 - 4/8/2002 5:30:19 PM
Yeah, he probably has a belly full of Bush and his henchmen already.
30909. judithathome - 4/8/2002 5:31:04 PM
Exactly.
30910. davenhill - 4/8/2002 5:33:15 PM
Well, the problem with McCain going Independent is money, and then having to face not one but two well funded opponents. And going Democrat is ideologically problematic for McCain and Democrats (he's among the most conservative members in the Senate - minus the corruption and religious baggage). so having McCain run in place of a Democrat doesn't accomplish much more than a nominal win for the party.
Given McCain's recent bout with cancer, I think he may be more inclined either to retire, or take a bold move to hurt Bush during the next election (a defection combined with a stinging indictment of the GOP), and possibly front billing as a nominee in a Democratic administration.
I have a friend who works on a Democrat congressman's staff - and apparently a McCain defection is on their radar screens as well.
The GOP has been absolutely vicious and vindictive to moderates like Shays and Jeffers.
But there's a lot of time between now and the next general election.
30911. davenhill - 4/8/2002 5:56:20 PM
Hi Judith - thanks for the welcome! Random International (World Crossing) has been a little dead recently, so I thought I'd peek over here. Definitely more active, but I'm not feeling the love for the format here. Hmmm...
>I think the Democrats have a hard slot to fill...it seems Bush is going to coast to a second term on the coattails of his stellar performance in his first.
What "stellar performance"? Bush was languishing on September 10th, the Enron scandal was pressing (lawsuits pending since the summer on release of notes from Cheney's meetings), Bush failed to get anywhere with his corporate pork barreling, was even having trouble selling his tax cuts... and, according to my friends in Hong Kong, deliberately trying to provoke tensions with China (in rhetoric and deeds).
After 9/11 and the stock market sell-off, he simply repacked the same old stuff under a new (very disingenuous) heading of "economic stimulus", and had limited success.
The prosecution of the war in Afghanistan has gone well, but that's a function of our general level of military preparedness and technology - not some special Bush strategy. And things appear to be unraveling there as we speak.
30912. davenhill - 4/8/2002 5:56:45 PM
His "axis of evil" speech has only hurt relations with Iran - a very troubling and pointless waste of political capital, one that damages our ability to stabilize Afghanistan, track down Al Qaeda members, and prosecute any future war against Iraq... and for what? The rhetorical necessity of contriving second-grade slogans that Bush can both pronounce and remember?
And oh the irony that the lionshare success in Afghanistan is owed to a man whose name Bush was conspicuously ignorant of during the campaign.
And Bush, from day one of his administration, had been fiddling while the Middle East continued to heat up and eventually burst into flames. Stability of the region, and the good will of the surrounding ME countries is essential not only for any future war against Iraq, but also for our prosecution of the war against terrorism in general (let alone the benefits of not creating further ill will which will breed more anti-American terrorists!). And it's only been in the LAST WEEK he's bothered to take any real stand. And only just barely.
No doubt Bush is hoping to prolong the military compaigns until election year, so that people will continue to blindly support him for reasons of misplaced patriotism.
30913. concerned - 4/8/2002 6:00:53 PM
Recession Mildest on Record Due To Tax Cuts (No Thanks to Daschole and the Senate 'Rats)
30914. judithathome - 4/8/2002 6:01:52 PM
Daven,
What "stellar performance"?
I obviously needed to place a (s)™ next to that remark...for the sarcasm I so definitely meant.
I am no Bushite, as you will see if you stick around here very long. Which I hope you decide to do...the format will grow on ya!
30915. concerned - 4/8/2002 6:08:13 PM
the Enron scandal was pressing (lawsuits pending since the summer on release of notes from Cheney's meetings),...
From the cut of your jib, I'd say Jexster's Enron thread is just the thing for you.
30916. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 6:08:41 PM
Welcome to the Mote, Davenhill. Very nice to see you here. Different posting formats are hard to adjust to. I found TT and RI very hard to get used to, and still am not as comfortable with them as here.
A lot will change for Bush in the next few weeks depending on what happens in the Middle East, and he will likely not have the luxury of determining whether our situation there, militarily or otherwise, will help or hurt him politically. If he begins to look vulnerable people will come out of the woodwork to challenge him who aren't on radar right now.
30917. CalGal - 4/8/2002 6:08:54 PM
Bush's popularity is dropping. I also don't think that his tender attention to the economy will help matters much if his solution is to make political panders, a la the steel tariff.
Also, keep in mind that Bush pater was extremely popular and then was beaten by Clinton, whereas in 1994 no one would have thought for a moment that Clinton would win re-election. So it's early yet.
I tell you, though, that administration is ruthless.
30918. Cellar Door - 4/8/2002 6:10:10 PM
Which administration?
30919. judithathome - 4/8/2002 6:12:10 PM
Rove and Hughes....
30920. betty - 4/8/2002 6:21:08 PM
I was thinking about this the other day...and this notion that "third" parties are "spoilers" go tme thinking about it again...the Dems and GOP don't really look that different anymore...I think we are in a shifting period, as they get closer and closer to the middle ,which is now very "right", one of them is going to become obsolete. which?
30921. judithathome - 4/8/2002 6:31:00 PM
The one which has God on its side is, of course, going to rule because it's the one with all the money.
30922. davenhill - 4/8/2002 6:31:27 PM
Concerned, the article you linked is basically the "I say so" opinion of a laughably biased source - a Republican congressman. Surely you can do better than that. And no mention of Greenspan, interest rates, money supply, etc.
30923. judithathome - 4/8/2002 6:34:12 PM
Oh Daven...you have so much to learn! Please stay and badger our "centrist" with demands to post things that make sense!
30924. concerned - 4/8/2002 6:36:30 PM
An independent variable such as a tax rate can be determined to have a deterministic effect on economic health without necessarily going into a comprehensive global analysis. The facts that the Fed has been dropping interest rates and that credit and consumer spending have remained relatively healthy despite the stock market uncertainty haven't hurt either, of course.
30925. CalGal - 4/8/2002 6:37:43 PM
The parties have moved to the center because the people have. I think we need a party realignment, but I'm not sure what it will be. I think it is more likely that the political parties will stay the same over time, but the constituencies will change. I certainly don't think that 90% of African Americans will vote Dem forever, and I don't think that the Dems can count on a huge chunk of the Hispanic vote forever, either. On the other hand, I think generational politics are going to get huge over the next ten-fifteen years, with younger people getting pissed off both parties choosing to trade off their future in craven fear of the old folk power in the present. My guess is that the Republicans will reach out to them.
30926. davenhill - 4/8/2002 6:41:44 PM
Hiya Arky! Good to see more familiar faces.
As you and CalGal point out, mid-term popularity during a war is one thing - the nation's attention is preoccupied and unified by the war effort. But political campaigns, of course, refocus attention back to pressing domestic political issues - and that's where most of an election is won or lost.
As an aside, politicians like Bush who are all packaging and little substance want to distract people from the issues as much as possible, hence the focus on highly emotionally charged "non-issue" issues like abortion (scream all you want either way, the current reality is based on a Supreme Court decision which neither side can do much about); put you can waste 10% of a "debate" regurgitating memorized pro/con speeches on the topic, and avoid hard questions - or at least, reduce the time available for hard questions so that they get all but the most superficial gloss-over.
And the Bush campaign was a brilliantly orchestrated high school popularity contest, complete with simpleton rhymes like "I'm a uniter, not a divider" and meaningless phrases like "I'm a reformer with results" or "compassionate conservative".
But hey, how much substance do you need when your brother purges some 30,000 African Americans (who were voting for Gore at 90% rate) from the state voter rolls on the pretext that they were "convicts" when in fact only about 5% of those dropped had every been convicted of anything?
30927. davenhill - 4/8/2002 6:42:27 PM
Hiya Arky! Good to see more familiar faces.
As you and CalGal point out, mid-term popularity during a war is one thing - the nation's attention is preoccupied and unified by the war effort. But political campaigns, of course, refocus attention back to pressing domestic political issues - and that's where most of an election is won or lost.
As an aside, politicians like Bush who are all packaging and little substance want to distract people from the issues as much as possible, hence the focus on highly emotionally charged "non-issue" issues like abortion (scream all you want either way, the current reality is based on a Supreme Court decision which neither side can do much about); put you can waste 10% of a "debate" regurgitating memorized pro/con speeches on the topic, and avoid hard questions - or at least, reduce the time available for hard questions so that they get all but the most superficial gloss-over.
And the Bush campaign was a brilliantly orchestrated high school popularity contest, complete with simpleton rhymes like "I'm a uniter, not a divider" and meaningless phrases like "I'm a reformer with results" or "compassionate conservative".
But hey, how much substance do you need when your brother purges some 30,000 African Americans (who were voting for Gore at 90% rate) from the state voter rolls on the pretext that they were "convicts" when in fact only about 5% of those dropped had every been convicted of anything?
30928. davenhill - 4/8/2002 6:42:46 PM
Hiya Arky! Good to see more familiar faces.
As you and CalGal point out, mid-term popularity during a war is one thing - the nation's attention is preoccupied and unified by the war effort. But political campaigns, of course, refocus attention back to pressing domestic political issues - and that's where most of an election is won or lost.
As an aside, politicians like Bush who are all packaging and little substance want to distract people from the issues as much as possible, hence the focus on highly emotionally charged "non-issue" issues like abortion (scream all you want either way, the current reality is based on a Supreme Court decision which neither side can do much about); put you can waste 10% of a "debate" regurgitating memorized pro/con speeches on the topic, and avoid hard questions - or at least, reduce the time available for hard questions so that they get all but the most superficial gloss-over.
30929. CalGal - 4/8/2002 6:43:41 PM
And the Bush campaign was a brilliantly orchestrated high school popularity contest
Not all that brilliant. He lost the popularity contest.
30930. davenhill - 4/8/2002 6:43:45 PM
crap - sorry about that (not used to the format)... hit post and didn't see it appear, but saw the Posting Window below, so kept trying...
My bad, and my apologies.
30931. CalGal - 4/8/2002 6:44:18 PM
Our programmer keeps declaring the "refresh" duplicate a "feature".
30932. concerned - 4/8/2002 6:46:25 PM
purges some 30,000 African Americans
Then were they purged because of invalid registrations? Underaged? Can you provide a cite? Or are we supposed to take you at your unsupported word?
30933. davenhill - 4/8/2002 6:47:18 PM
Not all that brilliant. He lost the popularity contest.
Well, true. But given what he had to overcome to win - it's truly amazing. If you would have told me that the Republicans would have actually put forward a candidate who was
1) not only a draft dodger, but someone who went AWOL for more than a year;
2) a known drug user, including cocaine for the better part of his adult live including a new recanted statement from a former Bush Senior cabinet member that W did coke in the White House during an inaugural party
etc. etc. I would have thought you were joking (or that Clinton's brother was a Gooper)
30934. CalGal - 4/8/2002 6:50:06 PM
But he had already been elected governor of Texas twice by that point.
30935. concerned - 4/8/2002 6:50:13 PM
...including a new recanted statement from a former Bush Senior cabinet member that W did coke in the White House during an inaugural party
If it's recanted, what good is it?
30936. davenhill - 4/8/2002 6:51:20 PM
Concerned, it's fairly common knowledge in Europe. The story was broken in Britain even before Gore conceded the election, was front page on European papers, and led BBC TV news time and time again.
Here's one link: http://www.mediachannel.org/views/whistleblower/palast.shtml
Funny thing how GE, Disney, and other mega-corps who helped elect Bush aren't big on feel-bad investigative jounalism which hurts their political appointees.
30937. CalGal - 4/8/2002 6:53:35 PM
It was a fairly well covered story here, too. Every major paper and media outlet ran at least one story on it. I remember you making the same statement--that it wasn't covered--over at RI, which I find puzzling. We certainly discussed it here.
30938. davenhill - 4/8/2002 6:54:18 PM
If it's recanted, what good is it?
The statement stood for the better part of a decade, and is fairly common knowledge among political insiders [notice how Bush has never denied anything], but was recanted only once Bush junior started campaigning for the presidency. Hmmm...
30939. davenhill - 4/8/2002 6:58:47 PM
>It was a fairly well covered story here, too. Every major paper and media outlet ran at least one story on it.
Can you provide any cites? I don't recall ever seeing any front page stories, or even stories which dived into the hard facts, outside of but a few off-mainstream sources. Nor have I noticed one on any TV outlets.
30940. davenhill - 4/8/2002 7:08:41 PM
From: http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=122&row=0
DBT, a company now owned by ChoicePoint of Atlanta, was paid $4.3 million for its work, replacing a firm that charged $5,700 per year for the same service. If the hope was that DBT would enable Florida to exclude more voters, then the state appears to have spent its money wisely.
ost of the voters (such as "David Butler," (1); a name that appears 77 times in Florida phone books) were selected because their name, gender, birthdate and race matched - or nearly matched - one of the tens of millions of ex-felons in the United States. Neither DBT nor the state conducted any further research to verify the matches. DBT, which frequently is hired by the F.B.I. to conduct manhunts, originally proposed using address histories and financial records to confirm the names, but the state declined the cross-checks. In Harris’s elections office files, next to DBT’s sophisticated verification plan, there is a hand-written note: “DON’T NEED.”
Thomas Alvin Cooper (2), twenty-eight, was flagged because of a crime for which he will be convicted in the year 2007. According to Florida’s elections division, this intrepid time-traveler will cover his tracks by moving to Ohio, adding a middle name, and changing his race.
were actually verified."
30941. davenhill - 4/8/2002 7:08:55 PM
After the election, Harris and her elections chief Clay Roberts, testified under oath that verifying the lists was solely the work of county supervisors. But the Florida-DBT contract (marked "Secret" and “Confidential”) holds DBT responsible for “manual verification using telephone calls.” in fact, with the state’s blessing, DBT did not call a single felon.
DBT claims it warned officials "a significant number of people who were not a felon would be included on the list"; but the state, the company now says, "wanted there to be more names than
30942. concerned - 4/8/2002 7:09:29 PM
Re. 30936 -
The numbers similar to what you have quoted referred to overvotes, undervotes and otherwise disqualified votes, including that from convicts. I believe the media has been over this time and again, and have generally concluded that GWB won the Florida popular vote when not using specially tailored criteria designed to hand Gore the state after the fact. If you want to call the US mass media part of Jeb Bush's 'racist conspiracy', I won't stop you:)
30943. davenhill - 4/8/2002 7:14:17 PM
The numbers similar to what you have quoted referred to overvotes, undervotes and otherwise disqualified votes, including that from convicts.
Sounds like you're confusing - deliberately or not - two entirely different issues. The 57,700 removed from the voting rolls under the pretext of cleansing the rolls of felons occurred prior to the election.
30944. concerned - 4/8/2002 7:17:03 PM
Re. 30943 -
Sounds like class actionable material....if it were true. Gore attorneys were crawling over Florida like maggots, looking under every rock for what you're claiming here. I guess they must have concluded there was something there...not.
30945. concerned - 4/8/2002 7:21:22 PM
Tell me this, davenhill - why were Florida Democrats unsuccessfully trying to disenfranchise military absentee voters when they could have had the election sown up merely by reclaiming your 57,000 'votes'?
30946. judithathome - 4/8/2002 7:23:53 PM
I recall Republicans were trying to "enfranchise" military votes by signing the voters names on the envelopes thmselves...so we all have fond memories of that election, it seems.
30947. judithathome - 4/8/2002 7:24:56 PM
Concerned, those 57,000 people weren't able to VOTE...that's the point.
30948. davenhill - 4/8/2002 7:29:09 PM
Tell me this, davenhill - why were Florida Democrats unsuccessfully trying to disenfranchise military absentee voters when they could have had the election sown up merely by reclaiming your 57,000 'votes'?
The Democrats were trying to put a stop to a deliberate, post-election push by the Bush campaign to mine overseas votes illegally.
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/15/politics/15BALL.html
30949. concerned - 4/8/2002 7:31:54 PM
Here's what Salon.com( http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/12/04/voter_file/index.html), which nobody would accuse of giving GWB much of an even break, has to say about this:
Early in the year, the company, ChoicePoint, gave Florida officials a list with the names of 8,000 ex-felons to "scrub" from their list of voters. But it turns out none on the list were guilty of felonies, only misdemeanors. The company acknowledged the error, and blamed it on the original source of the list -- the state of Texas.
Florida officials moved to put those falsely accused by Texas back on voter rolls before the election.
This article also mentions that DBT Online was merged into Choicepoint. There's a word, probably several choice ones, as a matter of fact, for people like gregpalast who wildly inflate figures and neglect to mention inconvenient facts.
30950. davenhill - 4/8/2002 7:32:22 PM
From the NY Times article
On the morning after Election Day, George W. Bush held an unofficial lead of 1,784 votes in Florida, but to his campaign strategists the margin felt perilously slim. They were right to worry. Within a week, recounts would erode Mr. Bush's unofficial lead to just 300 votes.
With the presidency hanging on the outcome in Florida, the Bush team quickly grasped that the best hope of ensuring victory was the trove of ballots still arriving in the mail from Florida residents living abroad. Over the next 18 days, the Republicans mounted a legal and public relations campaign to persuade canvassing boards in Bush strongholds to waive the state's election laws when counting overseas absentee ballots.
Their goal was simple: to count the maximum number of overseas ballots in counties won by Mr. Bush, particularly those with a high concentration of military voters, while seeking to disqualify overseas ballots in counties won by Vice President Al Gore.
30951. davenhill - 4/8/2002 7:32:57 PM
A six-month investigation by The New York Times of this chapter in the closest presidential election in American history shows that the Republican effort had a decided impact. Under intense pressure from the Republicans, Florida officials accepted hundreds of overseas absentee ballots that failed to comply with state election laws.
In an analysis of the 2,490 ballots from Americans living abroad that were counted as legal votes after Election Day, The Times found 680 questionable votes. Although it is not known for whom the flawed ballots were cast, four out of five were accepted in counties carried by Mr. Bush, The Times found. Mr. Bush's final margin in the official total was 537 votes.
The flawed votes included ballots without postmarks, ballots postmarked after the election, ballots without witness signatures, ballots mailed from towns and cities within the United States and even ballots from voters who voted twice. . All would have been disqualified had the state's election laws been strictly enforced.
30952. concerned - 4/8/2002 7:36:30 PM
If someone refuses to believe committed anti-Bushites like Salon.com when it says there was no demonstrable systematic disenfranchisement of convicts in Florida, well, what can I say?
30953. concerned - 4/8/2002 7:37:50 PM
toys
30954. concerned - 4/8/2002 7:38:34 PM
Well, I'm outta here for now. Have fun reliving your own personal version of the 2000 election, Lefties.
30955. davenhill - 4/8/2002 7:45:56 PM
First, your link was bad. It should be:
http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/12/04/voter_file/
Second, this article was prior to his later, more specific article by three months.
Third, the 8,000 mentioned is separate from the 57,700 final count, which is itself only a fraction of the initial "scrub list" (had you bothered to read the first paragraph of the article you linked ) of 173,000 names
If Vice President Al Gore is wondering where his Florida votes went, rather than sift through a pile of chad, he might want to look at a "scrub list" of 173,000 names targeted to be knocked off the Florida voter registry by a division of the office of Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris.
In other words, the 8,000 names you mention that were allegedly put back on the list came from the initial 173,000 votes.
Also, DBT merged with Checkpoint AFTER the election. So basically you were misrepresenting just about everything possible... giving that you had a link and appear to be literate, I assume you are doing this deliberately.
Is this your typical MO?
30956. judithathome - 4/8/2002 7:51:01 PM
In a word...yes. Welcome to Concernedland...and he is a self-proclaimed centrist.
Have a nice night, Daven...and hope to see you tomorrow!
30957. davenhill - 4/8/2002 7:51:03 PM
Well, I'm outta here for now. Have fun reliving your own personal version of the 2000 election, Lefties.
Wherever you're going, I hope there's a mirror you can look into.
30958. Cellar Door - 4/8/2002 7:52:42 PM
"Salon" sold out to the VRWC long ago, connie.
Don't you remember how they sicced a reporter on me when I dared to criticize their Sainted Sully?
30959. bubbaette - 4/8/2002 8:02:55 PM
Welcome to the Mote, Davenhill. I hope you stick around.
Sounds to me like Bush is not having much luck stamping his feet and demanding that Israel "withdraw without delay".
30960. robertjayb - 4/8/2002 8:06:54 PM
Now he is going to hold his breath...
30961. CalGal - 4/8/2002 8:10:54 PM
Sounds to me like Bush is not having much luck stamping his feet and demanding that Israel "withdraw without delay".
Well, if by Israel withdrawing from several towns just one day after saying they weren't going to withdraw isn't "luck", I guess not.
30962. bubbaette - 4/8/2002 8:16:00 PM
From what I'm hearing on MSNBC just now (Mike watches it) the Israeli representatives were pretty adamant that they were not pulling out for another 15 or 20 days. Guess we'll see.
30963. CalGal - 4/8/2002 8:20:07 PM
CNN
I meant what I said to the prime minister of Israel -- I expect there to be a withdrawal without delay," Bush told reporters during a trip to Knoxville, Tennessee.
...
As he stopped in Morocco on the first leg of a diplomatic trip that will take him to Israel later in the week, Secretary of State Colin Powell likewise expressed the U.S. desire for a speedy Israeli withdrawal.
Hours after Bush's comments, Israel announced it would begin pulling out of the West Bank towns of Qalqilya and Tulkarem.
Obviously, it's not a total pullout, but he called Sharon's bluff, and Sharon blinked.
Besides, I can't believe you really think Clinton or Gore would have done differently.
30964. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 8:38:20 PM
Sharon's certainly not blinking in any significant way yet. It's a limited pullout of two minor towns and he's stepped up activity in Jenin and Nablus.
ABC
Not that it's even relevant to the conversation, but no one knows what Clinton or Gore might do differently; however, you can damn sure speculate based on the efforts Clinton made before he left office. I don't think either would have sat on his hands for a week based on the administration's actions when it was in charge.
30965. bubbaette - 4/8/2002 8:41:57 PM
Yep -- the folks on MSNBC just said that the two towns they were leaving were of no strategic importance. I also seriously doubt that Clinton or Gore would have been sitting around with their thumbs up their butts for the past few weeks.
30966. CalGal - 4/8/2002 8:43:14 PM
I don't think either would have sat on his hands for a week based on the administration's actions when it was in charge.
No argument. Bush's snooty "we aren't nationbuilders" line has been roundly spanked for what it was, cheap talk from the peanut gallery. But now he is stepping up, and I'm unclear how Clinton would proceed differently in the circumstances.
Given that Sharon had just made a speech earlier in which he said it was full speed ahead and then, hours after Bush said "No, I meant now" he pulls out of two towns, I'd say it was a blink. Not a turn round and run home with the tail between the legs, just a blink.
He's trying to see how far he can push it. But he clearly was intending to ignore Bush completely to see if that would fly. It wouldn't.
30967. bubbaette - 4/8/2002 8:46:17 PM
Personally, I don't see where Bush comes off giving demands to a sovereign nation about a fight he's not in. Does he think that Americans would sit by meekly in response to the suicide bombers?
30968. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 8:47:01 PM
I'll grant you a small blink. I just don't doubt Clinton wouldn't have waited and I think that in itself would probably have produced a better result all the way around. I have more faith in Powell than I probably should, and so I'm expecting more soon.
30969. CalGal - 4/8/2002 8:48:53 PM
Personally, I don't see where Bush comes off giving demands to a sovereign nation about a fight he's not in.
Probably has something to do with the $2 billion we give that sovereign nation every year.
30970. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 8:49:41 PM
No, Bubba, but we didn't go into Afghanistan wholesale and half-cocked, either. Sharon knows what he's doing and he's daring our support in the face of the world, which annoys me no end, though Arafat is just as unsavory a leader.
30971. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 8:50:43 PM
It's over 4 billion iirc, and may well be more than that from what I was reading in RP's thread the other day.
30972. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 8:52:33 PM
My Palestinian friend used to say it as "$20,000 a day."
I've looked for him and haven't been able to locate him. He talked to my students seven or eight years ago and was living in Little Rock, but I can't find him listed anywhere. I'm probably butchering the spelling of his name, for one thing. He would have made a great spokesperson for Palestinians. Nice looking, intelligent, informed and articulate.
30973. CalGal - 4/8/2002 8:54:44 PM
That sounds right (4 billion). I don't know where I got 2 billion from; I might be thinking of an old number. The operative issue to me was that Bush "gets off telling" Israel what to do because they want our money. And they want our support, too--but apparently only if we do it their way.
I don't like Arafat's refusal; I don't think he had to immediately pull out, but open defiance is not only annoying, it's downright stupid. Europe is not at all fond of Israel; the US is their only real friend.
30974. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 8:55:00 PM
Davenhill,
I hope you stick around. I appreciate your informed and developed arguments and the efforts you go to to support your statements. I've enjoyed reading you in RI.
30975. bubbaette - 4/8/2002 8:55:46 PM
Like Bush is gonna tell Israel to go to hell and like the American public is gonna go along in pulling support. I certainly don't think that Sharon is blameless, but I don't think that he politically has the option of not responding in face of a very coordinated run of suicide bombers.
30976. CalGal - 4/8/2002 8:59:44 PM
There's a difference between not responding and open defiance. I actually don't think Israel should have pulled out completely, and I'm not sure that Bush should have asked for it. But Israel is on the offensive, not the defensive.
I honestly don't know what the answer is for Israel,but I think it's wrong to say that Bush had no business asking Israel to do it.
30977. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 9:00:17 PM
He's got to respond, but that's not the way and he knows it. He's been provocative from day one. Again, looking to our own actions in Afghanistan, Sharon's are a siege in comparison. And though we had support among the Afghans, they were under the Taliban at the time.
30978. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 9:07:19 PM
Bush had no choice internationally. We want too much ourselves. I don't see how he can move on Iraq in the current climate. American opinion is changing, as well, and despite what (blast it, his name slips me--old guy commentator on NPR--starts with "S") said about the media affecting public opinion, Sharon's recent actions have hurt Israel's image in the US from what it was even a few weeks ago.
Poll
30979. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 9:09:26 PM
(observation for room, no one in particular)
Whatever, though, it's obviously a pervasive problem that even three or four threads here can't hold the ideas for, and we don't have the luxury of ignoring it, thought that seems what Americans want to do from that poll. Z. Qafeth pointed that out well in the Terror thread, I thought.
30980. bubbaette - 4/8/2002 9:10:29 PM
I agree that Sharon has been bellicose from the get go -- that's why he was elected, as I recall. And I don't agree with the way he's treated the Palestinians or with the constant push to settle new territory. BUT I also think that it sounds hugely arrogant for Bush to be dictating what they must do immediately because they're messing up his plans to go to war with Iraq.
30981. CalGal - 4/8/2002 9:12:24 PM
I'm taking my response to Bubba's 30980 to the FGT thread, just because Arky mentioned the topic.
30982. davenhill - 4/8/2002 9:14:58 PM
Thanks Arky - I miss seeing you around at RI, too. You're still popping in from time to time, though, aren't you? If not, any chance I can cajole a few more cameos from you?
Some things I don't like about the Mote offhand
1. the inability to edit a post (RI gives you a half hour - enough to edit simple spelling/typographical mistakes, etc.)
2. the inability to link to earlier posts (it's easier at RI to quote someone and give a link to the post from which the quote is derived)
3. no ability to delete posts (like my string of accidental duplications)
4. constrained to short posts (which seems to skew the quality of the conversation towards an off-the cuff chat room rather than a place where people post longer, more substantial statements of their views, with or without documentation).
5. no user pictures or quotes
Well, you get the idea. Anyway, I will try to stick around for a bit but I also welcome everyone to visit Random International at World Crossing:
http://worldcrossing.com/WebX?1@@.eec8c71
30983. bubbaette - 4/8/2002 9:17:02 PM
Sorry. I don't go there -- I know it's your thread and all, but I think that many of the posts ditched in the Inferno have been on topic and appear to have been moved because of personal animus. So I'll just sign off.
30984. CalGal - 4/8/2002 9:19:18 PM
Daven,
Linking to earlier posts--<msg num=###>. And no charming WebX glitch that logs you in as that person, either.
Delete, edit, user pictures/quotes: all have been discussed at one time or another, and by and large have been voted down. There are always people around who would like it, but never the majority. Not that we've done much development in a while, now.
30985. CalGal - 4/8/2002 9:21:25 PM
Bubba,
You know, you really never seem to get the reasons right. They are moved because they are spam, not because they are off-topic, and not because of any personal animus.
In any event, my response to you was that your notion of Bush saying he wants Israel to pull out because he wants to go to Iraq is both wrong and foolish.
30986. wonkers2 - 4/8/2002 9:21:32 PM
I also have trouble with the 2,000 word limit per post although most of mine are shorter.
30987. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 9:23:41 PM
I'll try to get less shy in RI. I do pop in often, but don't post much. I've known Irv and Oz and Rye and PE and a few others a long time from Slate's Fray, but I'm slow to warm up to new environments. It's great reading for the most part, though Khaval's absence is very noticeable.
RI does have some really neat features, but most of us here liked the clean and easy to navigate style of the old Fray and a poster, Alistair Connor (cohost of the International thread), fixed this up for us with help from Cal, and Jay Ackroyd hosts the site on his server.
30988. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 9:24:51 PM
Sorry. '87 was to Daven.
Or should I say Message # 30987.
I got distracted in the middle of my post.
30989. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 9:26:55 PM
Wonk,
I used to have a lot of trouble with the limit, but haven't in a year or two. Life does change. Maybe I'll make time again to get agitated at it one of these days.
30990. CalGal - 4/8/2002 9:27:32 PM
Actually, RI has been extremely slow. Almost all the threads are slow or non-moving. The sports thread is extremely busy with chit chat. The rest of them have had from 1-20 posts in the 7 days I didn't go there.
30991. bubbaette - 4/8/2002 9:28:58 PM
Where has Khavel gone? I haven't been to RI for a couple of weeks because it was so danged sloooow to move around.
30992. wonkers2 - 4/8/2002 9:31:08 PM
One good thing about it is it forces some of us to be concise. I've gone back and edited down from 3,000 to 2,000 words without losing anything essential.
30993. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 9:31:13 PM
I couldn't keep up with it, and now that it's slowed down I've gone back a bit and read some of the threads I wanted to look at, but not in any depth. I always mean to do that here, and I'm the same about the Fray archives, but haven't gotten a round tuit yet.
30994. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 9:33:36 PM
She quit, Bubba, and I didn't read enough to see exactly why.
Wonk,
I can't believe you could cut 1000 unessential characters from anything you post. ;-)
30995. Snowowl - 4/8/2002 9:35:46 PM
Real life has caught up with Khaval, I believe. She has some pressing Uni work so is taking a break from RI.
30996. wonkers2 - 4/8/2002 9:43:37 PM
Omit needless words! Omit needless words!
30997. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 9:48:52 PM
Move away from the millennial, Wonk.
30998. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 9:49:19 PM
Now's a good time for brevity.
30999. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 9:49:38 PM
Or levity.
31000. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 9:49:57 PM
and fast typing
31001. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 9:50:36 PM
or a bunch of fuddyduddys.
31002. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 10:28:33 PM
Safire.
I can go to bed now.
31003. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 10:29:12 PM
Couldn't find the dadgummed name on the NPR site and it just finally popped into my head. Man, that was hard work.
31004. davenhill - 4/8/2002 10:29:16 PM
Khaval is taking an academic break. Also, there was a row between Khaval and two other posters who have also left since the altercation.
There are occassional server issues - the place can slow up a few hours on and off for a couple of days at a time before returning to normal (I use the Opera browser which displays the load time in seconds, and the two appear comparable most of the time).
31005. davenhill - 4/8/2002 10:38:21 PM
One good thing about it is it forces some of us to be concise. I've gone back and edited down from 3,000 to 2,000 words without losing anything essential.
I could use to be more concise myself. But far too often, I see online discussions consisting primarily of the exchange of conclusions with little (or vague) support. In the day of the internet, I find the "they say" or "I've read" alleged appeals to authority less and less acceptable... especially for people who obviously have access to the internet.
Too many people rely on third party conclusions (they heard someone from their political party, or someone else they have an intuitive desire to agree with) say something and accept it face value. Even if the conclusion is correct, that kind of intellectual sheepishness isn't going to help strengthen your argument through examination, improving one's logical consistency, and adding to your factual support.
And if you're not online to learn, even if it is to learn more about why your beliefs are correct - what's the point?
31006. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 10:44:06 PM
Oh, we never post anything here without supporting citations from the Washington Times or Fox.
(sorry--couldn't resist--Ace isn't here to slam me)
31007. arkymalarky - 4/8/2002 10:45:50 PM
All I do when I want to post something longer is type out the whole thing then cut/copy and paste until I reach the end. I have to be careful or I lose some of my pearls of wisdom doing that, though.
31008. joezan - 4/8/2002 10:58:32 PM
Jex will appreciate this...
PRINCETON, NJ -- John F. Kennedy continues to have the highest retrospective job-approval rating of any of the last eight presidents, followed by Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter. Richard Nixon and Lyndon Johnson have the lowest retrospective approval ratings. Bill Clinton -- measured for the first time since leaving office -- ranks only sixth. Clinton’s retrospective approval rating is slightly lower than his overall average while he was in office, and considerably lower than his average over his second term, between 1997 and 2001.
These ratings are based on a question that asks Americans to indicate whether -- in retrospect -- they approve or disapprove of the way a president handled his job while he was in office.
31009. davenhill - 4/8/2002 11:42:12 PM
they approve or disapprove of the way a president handled his job while he was in office.
Kennedy was a lousy president, which leads me to think that most of those polled thought the phrase "handle his job" was a euphemism for sex - hence Kennedy's high rating (Marilyn Monroe) vs. Clinton (Paula Jones and Lewinsky).
But clearly enough people understood the question to place the others in between (otherwise "Johnson" and "Tricky Dick" should have been a close second and third).
31010. jexster - 4/9/2002 12:40:25 AM
Julio's Role Models at The Weakly Standard Hard at Work
SUMMARY: Florida Governor Jeb Bush has blasted supporters who have attempted to out Janet Reno (news - web sites).
MIAMI -- Florida Governor Jeb Bush has blasted supporters who have attempted to out Janet Reno.
Reno, former attorney general under President Bill Clinton, is expected to be the Democratic candidate for governor. A group calling Americans For Bush" has used mailings and an Internet Web site to raise money and attack her."
31011. jexster - 4/9/2002 12:50:05 AM
31012. davenhill - 4/9/2002 1:19:53 AM
SUMMARY: Florida Governor Jeb Bush has blasted supporters who have attempted to out Janet Reno (news - web sites).
This isn't benevolence but calculating self-interest. You don't go for the throat until after someone gets the nomination (otherwise they could be replaced by someone else that you have no dirt on).
Obviously Jeb had no problems with dirty tricks when the race was actually on for his brother.
31013. concerned - 4/9/2002 1:40:28 AM
Re. 30955. -
You're wrong. Both links work fine for me and brought me back to the article I excerpted. You falsely accuse me. To borrow a phrase: Is this your typical MO? You're correct that I linked an earlier article by the same author - something I failed to notice at the time.
and Davenhill inserts his foot into his mouth most ungracefully here:
DBT merged with Checkpoint AFTER the election. So basically you were misrepresenting just about everything possible... giving that you had a link and appear to be literate, I assume you are doing this deliberately.
First of all, it's 'Choicepoint', not 'Checkpoint'. Secondly, that fact is in the 12/4/00 Salon article I excerpted. Thirdly, I never specified at what time the corporate change occurred. So, again, I'll just apply what you posted to you, since it is to whom it applies:
So basically you, Davenhill, were misrepresenting just about everything possible... giving that you had a link and appear to be literate, I assume you are doing this deliberately.
re. 30946 -
Incorrect. It was ruled legal by a judge.
The NYT article also is incorrect in that the absentee ballot only needed to be cast before election day - it was never the responsibility of the voter to ensure that the election officials finished their tallies by election day - that reasoning would not have allowed the several recounts that Gore asked for and got, so is intrinsically unjust and unacceptable.
31014. concerned - 4/9/2002 1:40:48 AM
In yet another article by the unscrupulous Greg Palast, he explains himself a little more clearly about the 'scrub list' in an article titled: 'Scrub Helps Shrub' from the Nation, as follows:
A report that Secretary of State Katherine Harris had ordered the removal from voting lists of 8,000 Florida citizens, every one of them wrongly identified by DBT as felons from Texas, first appeared in Britain's Observer, where I work as an investigative reporter. Harris and ChoicePoint claimed at that time to have corrected their erroneous ways, but the Observer, with the help of a team from Salon, reported in December that, extrapolating from known figures, at least 15 percent of the 58,000 felons named on the new scrub lists had also been wrongly identified as felons.
FWIW, 'extrapolating from known figures, without giving further details of how it was done and a buck will buy you a cup of coffee at some restaurants.
So, the truth is that all but the 8,000 who had their voting rights restored were indeed felons who were ineligible to vote in the Florida 2000 presidential election. Palast's later innuendo does nothing to refute this, but a picture is painted of an editorialist who is rather innumerate and very careless with the truth, to put it mildly.
So, you're consistently wrong, wrong, wrong, Davenhill. But you do apparently have a way with the Leftist Ladies who go for a plausible Leftist line of bull with some slimy innuendo thrown in.
31015. concerned - 4/9/2002 1:51:22 AM
Above, I posted:
So, the truth is that all but the 8,000 who had their voting rights restored were indeed felons who were ineligible to vote in the Florida 2000 presidential election.
FWIW, the above is in reference to the '58,000 felons' reference that Palast made. Just so nobody here on the Left once again gets wrong, misconstrues and attempts to slime me over it. I should also mention, as a point of information, that any use of the final scrub list was at the discretion of the individual Florida election boards.
31016. concerned - 4/9/2002 2:07:00 AM
The NYT article also is incorrect in that the absentee ballot only needed to be cast before election day
This was verified by a postmark in these cases....
31017. concerned - 4/9/2002 2:17:46 AM
Of course, referring to the 'progressive' propensity to pick and choose whether they accept court decisions based strictly on whether they conform to their ideological agenda of the moment, according to Leftist brigands, SCOFLA, not the USSC, determines the electoral law of the land, the US Constitution be damned. But that's another story.
31018. concerned - 4/9/2002 2:23:01 AM
Reparations, once silly, are now taken seriously
Excerpt:
The nudge of guilt is being applied to another constituency the reparations people will need: the universities. Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Brown and the University of Virginia have all been identified as having embarrassing connections to slavery. All will likely be sued. This raises the specter of idealistic students annually denouncing their own universities as racist, and demanding pro-reparations action by adminstrators, the keepers of university stock portfolios and all those professors on corporate boards. David Horowitz's book "Uncivil Wars" is a revelation about how far some elite campuses were willing to go just to suppress a newspaper ad opposing reparations.
I would hope this is the last gasp of victim/identity/racial politics, except I know that the shakedown parasites will always need their fixes.
31019. davenhill - 4/9/2002 2:27:20 AM
Besides, doubtless the Fla GOP is drooling at the prospects of a Reno run; she should be a ridiculously easy opponent to defeat. Gubernatorial debates don't get much coverage - unless one of the candidates says something really stupid or more likely in Reno's case, twitches or stutters.
She is guilty by association with the Clinton administration -hated by some Republicans for failing to appoint a Special Prosecutor in some instances, disliked by some Dems for appointing one in another instance...
All you have to do to question her judgment is show pictures of Waco Texas in flames.
And oh yes "Remember Elian!".
Honestly, someone needs to take her to the toolshed and demand she take a pass. Even if she had an uneventful tenure at Atty general, her medical condition is almost fatal in itself.
31020. concerned - 4/9/2002 2:27:48 AM
Re. 30956 -
JAH -
I'll accept your thanks in advance for straightening you out about the 8,000/58,000 figure.
31021. davenhill - 4/9/2002 4:02:15 AM
>You're wrong. Both links work fine for me and brought me back to the article I excerpted. You falsely accuse me.
Don't get so defensive, a link error is a minor point. I corrected it so people would be able to find the article. Your link doesn't work for me either with Opera or Internet Exporer, and is different from the link I found on a quick search:
http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/12/04/%20voter_file/index.html
http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/12/04/voter_file/index.html
Yours, on top, has a random "%" in the address which doesn't work for me; instead I get:
If you're reading this page it means that the Salon.com link you selected is broken in some way. Our apologies! Please report this error and we will try to correct it as soon as possible. By submitting this form, you will be taken back to www.salon.com.
31022. davenhill - 4/9/2002 4:02:34 AM
First of all, it's 'Choicepoint', not 'Checkpoint'. Secondly, that fact is in the 12/ 4/00 Salon article I excerpted. Thirdly, I never specified at what time the corporate change occurred.
The point of distinguishing between the two corporate entities was to help distinguish that there were two separate mistakes (in 30949 you copy/paste excerpts from the Salon.com article to imply that there was one mistaken that was probably corrected).
However, there were two separate mistakes as is more clear from another Palast article (http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=30&row=1):
After wrongly identifying 8,000 Florida voters with Texas misdemeanour records as felons [FLAWED LIST #1], it supplied a revised list of 57,770 "possible felons" [FLAWED LIST #2] to Florida's secretary of state, Katherine Harris. The list was full of mistakes mainly because of the criteria DBT used.
31023. davenhill - 4/9/2002 4:14:09 AM
By confusing these two lists, you're coming up with odd conclusions like this:
So, the truth is that all but the 8,000 who had their voting rights restored were indeed felons who were ineligible to vote in the Florida 2000 presidential election.
Again, the first list from 8,000 contained names of people who should not have been taken off the rolls. This mistake was caught, and "Harris and ChoicePoint claimed at that time to have corrected their erroneous ways". In other words, they were giving assurances that they caught the one mistake, and there would be no more mistakes. But more mistakes were to be found - in the second "revised list" of 57,700 "possible felons".
The paragraph you quote is confusing, but note that it does contrast the two lists:
at least 15 percent of the 58,000 felons named on the new scrub lists had also been wrongly identified as felons.
Another bit that helps distinguish the two is that they work the 15% error rate to around 7,000 votes (not 8,000).
31024. davenhill - 4/9/2002 4:14:35 AM
FWIW, 'extrapolating from known figures, without giving further details of how it was done and a buck will buy you a cup of coffee at some restaurants.
So you ridicule the numbers provided by Salon, which arrived at these numbers after surveying 10 counties, but fail to provide any rebuttal evidence.
But he added that ChoicePoint is responsible only for turning over its raw list, which is then up to Florida officials to test and correct.
I should also mention, as a point of information, that any use of the final scrub list was at the discretion of the individual Florida election boards.
And? It is the Florida state officials (Harris' office) that is responsible to ensure that the raw list is accurate; when state employees noted that some on the rolls were convicted in the future (say, 2007), Catherine Harris' office response was not to remove the names, but rather to remove just the conviction dates.
The local election boards have little or no means to check the list's accuracy. Also note that Florida is the only state to farm out this job to a private entity. Rick Rozar, president of DBT - 70% owned by ChoicePoint - made a strategic six-figure soft cash donation to the Republican Party... and was soon after rewarded with a $4+ million dollar contract to help purge the Florida voting rolls. The firm that did it before ChoicePoint/DBT charged soemthing like $6,000.
31025. davenhill - 4/9/2002 4:17:08 AM
I hate that you can't go back and edit out sloppy mistakes. The "But he added that ChoicePoint is responsible only for turning over its raw list, which is then up to Florida officials to test and correct." was a statement by ChoicePoint, denying final responsibility for the accuracy of the purge list.
31026. Cygnus X-1 - 4/9/2002 9:33:16 AM
Just in case any of you class warriors were out there decrying Bush's tax cut as being unfair, please consider that Tax Burden Falls on the Wealthy. Now, this is an AP story, so it's hard to call these "netherfacts", but I realize your desperation might lead you that way. Anyhow:
Excerpt:
The wealthiest 1 percent — those earning $293,415 and up — paid more than a third of the taxes, while their share of the nation's taxable income was 19 percent. They pay income taxes at the top rate, now 38.6 percent, compared with a maximum rate of 15 percent for most lower-earning taxpayers.
Now, how can someone's taxable income represent 19% of the total yet their tax payments represent more than 33% of the total? Could it be that government knows best how much money we should have? Nah, that would be either communism or socialism and we don't have that here, right?
31027. Cygnus X-1 - 4/9/2002 9:37:17 AM
Or, it could be that the "enlightened" among us, ie. jexster, don't want the bourgeoisie to excel without the proper amount of respect to the "truly elite" among us. Check out Among the Bourgeoisophobes.
Excerpt:
These two peoples, the Americans and the Jews, in the view of the bourgeoisophobes, thrive precisely because they are spiritually stunted. It is their obliviousness to the holy things in life, their feverish energy, their injustice, their shallow pursuit of power and gain, that allow them to build fortunes, construct weapons, and play the role of hyperpower.
31028. Cellar Door - 4/9/2002 10:34:59 AM
Talk to Sully LIVE today at "Pravda"
31029. jexster - 4/9/2002 12:19:42 PM
No thanks Cllr....perhaps you would be interested in a web chat with Cardinal Mahoney?
31030. jexster - 4/9/2002 12:23:17 PM
WRT the Latino vote....both parties are trying to court it...the Dems certainly have the upper hand.
Last night, I attended a presentation by local pollster David Binder Associates on the last SF election.
I have seen several of these types of analyses and they all wind up, ecological fallacies aside, at the same place.
The latino vote is the most consistently liberal vote in SF. The differences between SF and other places - first the obvious - liberal means WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYY liberal, and second, the latino vote turns out better than other minorities - I am not so sure this is true everywhere.
31031. jexster - 4/9/2002 12:24:18 PM
The bottom line is that its gonna take Bush more than his ability to speak "mexican" and Mizz Laura's chimichangas to make any inroads here.
31032. jexster - 4/9/2002 4:13:30 PM
Gov. Gunn (R-NV) told Bush to piss off.
Its getting to be commonplace!
31033. jexster - 4/9/2002 4:15:01 PM
Sorry Governor Gwinn.....he don't want GWB's nuclear poo no matter HOW much flithy lucre the industry paid for a president.
31034. concerned - 4/9/2002 4:22:08 PM
Re. 31024 -
davenhill -
Well, I'm glad that you provided that further elucidation, but the article I excerpted hadn't, and my point stands that statistical extrapolations such as those can have only very restricted applicability, whatever construction you please to put on my phraseology. Just one of many cavils which come to mind: Can one say with any assurance that the 10 counties selected fairly represent the state in this regard?
31035. concerned - 4/9/2002 5:48:48 PM
jexster -
the flithy nuculer poobah.
31036. Cellar Door - 4/9/2002 6:21:40 PM
"perhaps you would be interested in a web chat with Cardinal Mahoney?"
Sure.
"Hey Cardinal Mahoney, I'm following a story about a character named Frederick Mark Schaffell aka. "Mark Fredericks." He's known throughout the San Fernando Valley as the World's Worst Gay Porn Director who make his real cash by uh Discovering New Talent. Recently he became involved with Michael Jackson, allegedly to produce a song called "What More Can I Give?" -- a tribute to September 11th victims that was supposed to have been sung by Jackson at a live event in DC several months back. Well it never happened and many people got burned. But it's become increasingly clear to many that what Schaffell was really brought on board the Jackson bandwagon for was to supply the "King of Pop" with LITTLE BOYS TO FUCK!
Did you, or anyone else in the church, ever uh. . .take advantage of his services?
Just curious. . ."
31037. jexster - 4/9/2002 7:52:39 PM
Some people think that Carville is beating up guests...imagine that
he reminds me of me
31038. jexster - 4/9/2002 8:00:04 PM
"The Catholic church doesn't belong to anyone but the people dats in it and they are supremely outraged at what's been going on." James, Son of Miss Nipsy, Carville on CrossFire
31039. concerned - 4/10/2002 1:54:33 AM
31040. jexster - 4/10/2002 3:30:38 AM
DALLAS (Reuters) - Ron Kirk, completing a Democratic Party dream team of African-American, Hispanic and white candidates for Texas general elections in November, beat a high school teacher in a primary runoff to stand for the U.S. Senate seat being vacated by Republican Phil Gramm.
Kirk, who stepped down as Dallas' first black mayor last year to run for the U.S. Senate, had a comfortable 59 percent to 41 percent for Victor Morales, whose campaign was frowned on by party leaders, with 97 percent of precincts reporting.
Kirk would be the first black Senator from Texas if he beats Republican state attorney general John Cornyn in November.
31041. jexster - 4/10/2002 3:32:36 AM
Principles:
Steel Tariff
Lumber Tariff
Polls
Enron
Yup there's honor among theives.
31042. jexster - 4/10/2002 3:39:12 AM
And the Weakly Standard sez...
Powell's Disastrous Trip
The Secretary of State isn't helping the situation. In fact, he might be dismantling the Bush Doctrine.
The Bush Doctrine of course. You remember that one, that collection of silly, nauseating sermons, that lemon chiffon pie of a "doctrine"?
7759. concerned - 4/9/02 9:05:31 PM
Anybody else notice a dropoff in suicide bombings in the last week or two?
31043. jexster - 4/10/2002 3:41:33 AM
Anybody else notice how Sharon is playing Bush for a trained monkey?
Anybody else notice how the steel industry...etc etc
31044. jexster - 4/10/2002 3:55:02 AM
31045. jexster - 4/10/2002 11:38:26 AM
He's a Soul Man!
MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia Wednesday accused the United States of trying to steal military secrets, just weeks before President Vladimir Putin (news - web sites) and his U.S. counterpart George W. Bush are due to meet in Moscow.
31046. OhioSTOPAS - 4/10/2002 11:58:54 AM
Well, I think it would be good if no one paid attention to those who criticize Bush for meeting with Putin.
31047. jexster - 4/10/2002 12:55:54 PM
Third Oil Crisis? Krugman's Gloomy Assessment
Keep drivin those SUV's...
Damn the world sure has gone to hell in a handbasket since 1/21/01 hasn't it Ohio?
And, by the way, have you seen my lockbox anywhere?
31048. OhioSTOPAS - 4/10/2002 2:47:46 PM
"Concerned" would accuse Clowntoon/X-42/the WH Rapist of taking the lockbox when he took the White House silverware.
31049. jexster - 4/10/2002 6:24:32 PM
And lookee what Clowntoon did to the Bush Doctrine!
31050. jexster - 4/11/2002 12:25:25 AM
US Losing Grip in World, WH Losing Patience With Sharon
31051. jexster - 4/11/2002 12:26:18 AM
Its what happens when you have a Moron Philosopher King.
31052. robertjayb - 4/11/2002 1:15:19 AM
Dems gain in congressional prospects...(Gallup)
PRINCETON, NJ -- The latest CNN/USA Today/Gallup measure of party strength in the upcoming congressional elections puts Democrats ahead of Republicans for the first time since Sept. 11. By a 50% to 43% margin, more registered voters now say they will vote for the Democratic candidate in their district rather than the Republican candidate. Just two weeks ago, the parties were tied at 46% on this important measure.
31053. robertjayb - 4/11/2002 1:23:49 AM
Are dubya's coattails getting slippery?
31054. jexster - 4/11/2002 10:54:12 AM
Day Late, Dollar Short - ALL HAT, NO CATTLE
"White House aides also fear that Sharon's intransigence in the face of Bush's repeated demands over the past week for an end to the Israeli attacks could make the president appear ineffective and erode his standing in the world." WPost
31055. judithathome - 4/11/2002 11:05:26 AM
Ya' think? Naaaawwww....
31056. jexster - 4/11/2002 11:29:13 AM
Further to Robert's
"A USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll shows that if elections for the House of Representatives were held today, 50% of registered voters would cast ballots for the Democrat in their district; 43% would vote for the Republican. If the numbers hold until November, Democrats stand a good chance of winning back control of the House, now held by the GOP, 222-211, with two independents. Democrats say the latest numbers prove their message on issues such as health care and Social Security is resonating with voters. The party favors prescription drug coverage for all seniors and opposes President [sic] Bush's plan to allow private investment of some Social Security taxes. 'When it comes to domestic issues people really care about, they understand that Democrats share their concerns and can be trusted to do something about them,' said Rep. Nita Lowey, D-N.Y., chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee."
31057. jexster - 4/11/2002 11:29:54 AM
Robt/JAH
What do you cowpokes think of the Tejas Dream Ticket?
31058. judithathome - 4/11/2002 11:44:25 AM
I voted for Victor.
31059. jexster - 4/11/2002 11:57:49 AM
New World War Crimes Court Opens; Bush, Fearing Prosecution, Spurns Treaty
31060. robertjayb - 4/11/2002 12:17:16 PM
jexster,
Ron Kirk (Senator) is tall, tan and charming. John Sharp (Lieutenant Governor) is smart and experienced. Tony Sanchez (Governor) is really, really rich.
What's not to like?
31061. jexster - 4/11/2002 12:28:31 PM
I think its excellent myself but perhaps 4 years too soon???????
31062. jexster - 4/11/2002 12:34:17 PM
If there is anything that modern conservatives hate more than fair taxation, it's a fair fight. The moment they encounter an equally aggressive opponent on a level field, the instinct of these bullying boys and girls is to run and hide and whine. That's why the Republican leadership, confronted by Paul Begala and James Carville on CNN's revamped 'Crossfire', are now loudly whispering about a boycott of the show. Those quiet directives emanating from the offices of the Republican National Committee, the Senate Minority Leader's office and other outposts of the right-wing establishment in Washington—leaked in order to intimidate the liberal Crossfire hosts and their network bosses—are a disgrace to the American ideal of free debate. So cowardly are these conservatives that they won't even voice their complaints on the record."
Wignuts Living in Fear of Carville/Begala
31063. judithathome - 4/11/2002 12:48:01 PM
They should fear them...I expect to see Novak spontaneously combust any night now.
31064. robertjayb - 4/11/2002 12:53:52 PM
I enjoy hearing prissy Tucker Carlson squeal: No fair! That's not fair!
31065. judithathome - 4/11/2002 12:57:06 PM
And Novak, last night, with what is presumably his stiffest shot: "Paul, I'm disappointed in you, playing the race card like that."
I'm sure Begala needed oxygen after that punch!
31066. judithathome - 4/11/2002 1:09:15 PM
It's the "Bushism of the Day" from Slate...
"It would be a mistake for the United States Senate to allow any kind of human cloning to come out of that chamber." — Washington, D.C., April 10, 2002
31067. jexster - 4/11/2002 2:23:16 PM
Good one!
Seems that JUST SAY NO TO King GEORGE is catching on
Hill Snubs Bush
31068. Property of Jesus - 4/11/2002 4:28:38 PM
Another Democratic congressman gets convicted of bribery.
31069. wonkers2 - 4/11/2002 4:35:40 PM
You heard it here: Tucker Carlson is really Julius Caesar!
31070. Property of Jesus - 4/11/2002 5:41:19 PM
The ratings problems with CNN's Crossfire is that Fox News is doing an hour of solid news at the same time.
And, it's "fair and balanced."
31071. judithathome - 4/11/2002 5:46:43 PM
Ha! It's not news and it's not solid...if anything is scoring at that hour, it is reruns of The Daily Show and Beat The Geeks on Comedy Central...they beat Faux News.
31072. Property of Jesus - 4/11/2002 5:55:51 PM
You're out of your mind, Judy.
Although I like your idea that Bush sent Powell to the Mideast, hoping he will fail, in order to make sure he doesn't run against him in 2004.
The conductor has the advantage of not seeing his audience.
31073. judithathome - 4/11/2002 5:57:05 PM
Right...all they see is his ass.
31074. Property of Jesus - 4/11/2002 6:06:11 PM
The Kaus Files: Andrew Sullivan finally has some competition.
31075. judithathome - 4/11/2002 6:53:42 PM
Trafficante found guilty...could get as much as 63 years for his crimes. ABC News
And I am outta here...time for CROSSFIRE!!
31076. Cellar Door - 4/11/2002 7:52:56 PM
Julius would be perfect for "Crossfire."
Wish he had better connections in the Beltway.
31077. judithathome - 4/11/2002 7:58:42 PM
Wow! I guess the show is getting too polular: tonight they were interrupted by a horde of protesters yelling and blowing whistles..had to cut away for a bit til the hall was cleared of the thundering group.
I'm sure they were conservatives...probably the same crew who caused such a ruckus in Flordia during the recounts. The bow tie wearing, yellow suspender crowd who are always RIGHT.
31078. judithathome - 4/11/2002 8:00:04 PM
By the way, Begala has definitely improved Tucker Carlson's delivery! He's on his toes now, instead of snoozing through half the show.
31079. jexster - 4/11/2002 8:03:10 PM
"More and more, the United States looks like it is collaborating with Israel"
Lou Dobbs?
No Mustafa Barghouti, Jenin
31080. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 4/11/2002 11:47:22 PM
31081. jexster - 4/12/2002 12:54:32 PM
Anyone think that Idiot is a world leader now?
31082. robertjayb - 4/12/2002 5:34:27 PM
Molly Ivins reviews Armey and Gramm, masters of mean...
Armey and Gramm's joint retirement, along with that of Jesse Helms, marks the end of a particularly nasty kind of politics. Even Republicans now prefer a softer edge, a warmer and fuzzier approach. The result is the same, but "compassionate conservatism" goes down a lot smoother.
31083. wonkers2 - 4/12/2002 5:36:24 PM
Smile when you stick the knife in their backs!
31084. jexster - 4/12/2002 9:52:14 PM
"I don't know if anyone has done a calculation, but it's obvious that the Bush administration has appointed a record number of corporate executives to high-level positions, often regulating or doing business with their former employers."
Conintern Commique:
Get Krugman at all costs
Sully done fucked up.
That is all.
31085. jexster - 4/13/2002 11:47:39 AM
Simon in Trouble in California - Campaign Sputtering - Bush Visit Plans Draw Yawns
31086. jexster - 4/13/2002 11:49:10 AM
Cllr - Do you have a phone number?
Message # 31036
I've got some unspent birthday $$.
31087. jexster - 4/13/2002 12:09:37 PM
The country is starting to wake up to the obvious
The poll found that 65 percent of Americans think Bush is doing a good job handling foreign policy, a significant decline from the 80 percent favorable rating he had in December 2001, three months after the Sept. 11 attacks.
Ten Billion bucks to crush the Talibees and we still haven't done it...
Bumblefucks R US...
Time for the Rove Office of Strategery to swing into action eh TD?
31088. jexster - 4/13/2002 12:37:47 PM
I am going to change party registration to Republican on Monday.
Just heard AL Gore rip into the WarLord...our country is going to hell in an handbasket under these half wit wingnuts ..stuff like that belongs in the toilet
Doesn't Bore know that we are in a life and death struggle with the Devil?
31089. jexster - 4/13/2002 12:52:40 PM
JudithAtHomeInJasper...
This is what my bro says about Victor Morales...
I'm glad Victor lost. The guy is about as sharp as George W. The pickup truck motif was cute in 1996 when everyone knew he would lose,
but I think we might stand a chance this time. Cornyn has the Republican big bucks behind him, and Kirk as you so astutely noted is black, but I don't think anyone thinks Cornyn has actually done much as attorney general.
The same can be said about all of the other candidates.
Keep in mind when George W. Bush is considered the crèam of the Texas crop, what does
that say about those who aren't as good as George?
31090. robertjayb - 4/13/2002 2:04:52 PM
The Big Dog is coming off the porch...(The Hill)
Responding to an overwhelming number of requests for help from congressional candidates across the country, former President Bill Clinton is preparing to become significantly involved in helping Democrats run for the House and Senate.
His involvement will end a period of scant political activity that began when he left the White House.
31091. jexster - 4/13/2002 2:11:16 PM
WOOF WOOF
Presa Canario on loose
31092. jexster - 4/13/2002 2:16:05 PM
The Bush administration swallowed Riordan's loss in part because it realizes California is an unusually Democratic state that Republicans can afford to write off. But Rove and company can't let battleground states like Illinois and New Jersey become solidly Democratic and let solidly Republican states like Ohio, Virginia, and Texas become swing states. Yet, even as Bush's wartime popularity soars and Republicans rejoice about their chances this fall, that may be exactly what is happening.
Ever the trend setter, California - The Shape of Things To Come
31093. robertjayb - 4/13/2002 2:35:03 PM
Good link, jexster......
31094. jexster - 4/13/2002 4:55:04 PM
Big Dog loose...AlBore firing defilade shots...
Looks like TommyDaschole's sedition of January was the opening shot in the Masscre of the Midland Moron...
31095. Property of Jesus - 4/13/2002 6:25:47 PM
AIRPORT RAGE!!
The drug abuser and heavy drinker, Rep. Patrick Kennedy has reached a hugh financial settlement with the female Los Angeeles
elderly black security guard who claimed he shoved her in a confrontation over carrying oversized luggage through airport security.
Shades of MEET THE PARENTS!
31096. jexster - 4/13/2002 7:02:08 PM
Yea they say he drinks like he has a hollow leg eh Rosie?
31097. robertjayb - 4/13/2002 7:04:33 PM
Stop that.
31098. wonkers2 - 4/13/2002 7:56:30 PM
#31095 "Huge settlement"
POJ, your link didn't say anything about a huge settlement. It said "The terms of the settlement were not disclosed."
We need a Mote truth squad to follow you around and screen the bullshit out of your posts.
31099. bubbaette - 4/13/2002 7:58:54 PM
That would eliminate 95% of what he posts.
31100. Property of Jesus - 4/13/2002 8:25:51 PM
Al Gore, san beard, is on C-SPAN right now, speaking to some union officials in Florida.
God, he's a lousy speaker.
31101. Property of Jesus - 4/13/2002 8:29:31 PM
The elderly black airport security guard at LAX lost her job because of Kennedy pressure after she informed the police of his airport rage.
My sources says that she received over $600,000, not very much considering her attorney takes a third.
31102. Property of Jesus - 4/13/2002 8:31:16 PM
Different Kennedy kid, Jexster. Patrick has both his legs, but still uses pain pills to deal with the famous Kennedy pain.
31103. Cellar Door - 4/13/2002 9:02:40 PM
I always thought wingnuts like you were the Kennedy Pain.
31104. Cellar Door - 4/13/2002 9:03:30 PM
Your views of Al Gore wouldmake you welcome as a "reporter" on CNN Rosie.
31105. wonkers2 - 4/13/2002 9:07:25 PM
$400,000 sounds like quite a bit to me. Her injuries must have been life threatening and permanently incapacitating. Where do I get in line?
31106. Cellar Door - 4/13/2002 9:10:12 PM
Here wonkers -- I have a cup of MacDonald's coffee for you!
31107. wonkers2 - 4/13/2002 9:25:58 PM
I think they lowered the temperature.
31108. jexster - 4/13/2002 9:31:39 PM
Declaring that "here in America, patriotism does not mean keeping quiet," former Vice President and winner of the 2000 Presidential election Al Gore took on President Bush today in a speech in Florida. Gore went on to thank TDaschole of the Mote for showing him how vulnerable Bush now is.
31109. Property of Jesus - 4/13/2002 9:53:55 PM
Gosh, he looks awful. More and more like his bitter pill of an old man.
Now Gore's NYC daughter, the one with the K name, is still viable.
31110. jexster - 4/13/2002 10:17:32 PM
Gore Regains Partisan Bite - Presa Caniro Clinton's Escape Inspires 43rd President
31111. wonkers2 - 4/13/2002 10:19:56 PM
Looks like he improved his hair do.
31112. arkymalarky - 4/13/2002 10:24:26 PM
I preferred the beard.
31113. wonkers2 - 4/13/2002 10:29:30 PM
Yeah, I hoped he'd keep it. He must have polled.
31114. Absensia - 4/13/2002 10:29:45 PM
If we are discussing whether someone looks good or bad..look at Bush...he has a Mad Magazine face, no matter what he says or what facial expression he tries to have.
31115. ronski - 4/13/2002 10:30:27 PM
I prefer the Democrats try somebody new. I like Vermont's Howard Dean, but I know he has a snowball's chance in Florida, and elsewhere.
31116. wonkers2 - 4/13/2002 10:30:40 PM
Alfred P. Neuman.
31117. Absensia - 4/13/2002 10:38:10 PM
Alfred E. Neuman??? yes, but Alfred has wider eyes, no simian jutting forehead, and he has lips...not just a slips.
"I'll take lips for $700 Alex."
31118. Absensia - 4/13/2002 10:39:13 PM
I agree Ronski...some one new would be good, and perhaps mean a win.
31119. CalGal - 4/13/2002 10:51:25 PM
Unlike the one who won last time? Jaysus, you'd think that winning the Presidency in terms of number of people who expected to vote for him would be enough.
It's so fashionable for Dem hacks to diss Gore. He had a third party candidate leeching votes, he was sitting vice president, he was sitting vice president to a President who had as many negatives as positives, and he still got more votes and lost only due to an implementation failure in Florida.
31120. Property of Jesus - 4/13/2002 10:57:29 PM
Another bad picture of THE LOSER.
Kiss of death for a politician to have a double chin.
31121. arkymalarky - 4/13/2002 11:01:06 PM
Cal obviously doesn't understand what a hack is, but she's definitely made the word hackneyed in slinging it around like some enjoy slinging "fascist" at everyone with a contrary opinion.
31122. arkymalarky - 4/13/2002 11:01:52 PM
Better than having no chin, PJ.
31123. arkymalarky - 4/13/2002 11:08:53 PM
And "dis" is short for "disrespecting."
31124. jexster - 4/13/2002 11:32:33 PM
Bushies Admit 'Arafat's Got US by the Short Hairs and We Haven't a Clue What to Do
31125. jexster - 4/13/2002 11:44:13 PM
"They're the party of Fantasy Land; we're the party of Tomorrow Land. We're the party of Main Street U.S.A.; they're the party of Pirates of Enron and Tommie Daschole"
Al Gore
43d President of the US
31126. jexster - 4/13/2002 11:45:53 PM
Julius would be perfect for "Crossfire."
Wish he had better connections in the Beltway
Perfect for making burritos for the cast?
Perfect for what's the porno word "fluffer" or something like that?
31127. jexster - 4/13/2002 11:51:47 PM
"Republicans turned the clock back on progress. I'll tell you it's a good thing they love the past so much, because pretty soon, they're going to be history."
Al Gore
43d President of the US
31128. Absensia - 4/14/2002 12:12:40 AM
Hahaha, Jexster, you are soooo bad...hahaha.
31129. jexster - 4/14/2002 9:43:28 AM
So is Frank Rich
s a statement of principle set forth by an American chief executive, the now defunct Bush Doctrine may have had a shelf life even shorter than Kenny Boy's Enron code of ethics. As a statement of presidential intent, it may land in the history books alongside such magisterial moments as Lyndon Johnson's 1964 pledge not to send American boys to Vietnam and Richard Nixon's 1968 promise to "bring us together."
DuhBya Doctrine - RIP
Not over my dead body GWB RIP
31130. jexster - 4/14/2002 9:58:01 AM
"A two-year-old could have seen this crisis coming. And the idea that it could be brushed under the carpet as the administration focused on either Afghanistan or Iraq reflects either appalling arrogance or ignorance."
Geoffrey Kemp, former Raygun MidEast Advisor
31131. joezan - 4/14/2002 10:06:13 AM
Frontrunner?
Gore Stock Slipping Among Democrats
While recent Gallup polls show that Al
Gore is the front-runner for the
Democratic presidential nomination in
2004, there is evidence that Democrats
are beginning to sour on Gore. Gore's
lead in the test ballot has declined in
recent months, and now more Democrats
say they do not want him to run for
president than say they do.
This shift in preference has largely occurred across the board. Democrats in nearly all key demographic subgroups show a shift of 20 percentage points away from wanting Gore to run for president in 2004.
31132. joezan - 4/14/2002 10:07:47 AM
IOW: Demos, stay home in 2004.
31133. judithathome - 4/14/2002 10:11:21 AM
Gore gave a speech this week raking Bush over the coals for various things involving domestic policy...if people ever wake up enough to notice some of the crap Bush is doing...or not doing...maybe Gore will seem a little more palatable. At least he is saying something...Democrats ARE the opposition party, after all; they ought to stand up and oppose something!
31134. joezan - 4/14/2002 10:30:35 AM
Where have you been, judith?
Cynthia McKinney's been doing enough "opposing" for all 200-some-odd House dems.
Dems oughtta be right proud of "Frenchy" McKinney.
31135. judithathome - 4/14/2002 10:34:18 AM
I've been right here, Joe...but I'm going to have to skip the next two weeks worth of wisdom from this place. I'm sure I'll be able to get back up to speed; not much changes.
31136. jexster - 4/14/2002 10:44:36 AM
Gore probably isn't the front runner JoeZ.
I'm a Daschole man myself.
However, he has the visibility and the flexibility to attack.
Moreover, if he is to win over Democrats to another run, he is going to have to demonstrate some ability on the stump.
To do that he must attack, attack like a Big Dog.
Its what you call a win-win situation.
31137. arkymalarky - 4/14/2002 12:50:18 PM
He's rightfully stayed out of the spotlight until now, when the 2002 primary campaigns are getting wound up and people's moods are more receptive to some criticism of the current administration and a rallying of the opposition party.
31138. ronski - 4/14/2002 1:52:19 PM
jexster,
Re: Message # 31127 -- Would you care to share with us some pertinent, historical quotes from President Tilden?
31139. judithathome - 4/14/2002 3:27:32 PM
I have just tried to link a column by Molly Ivins from the paper for which she writes, the Fort Worth Star Telegram. The opinion piece is called "Dissent Is Not A Dirty Word" but evidently, it IS to this newspaper. The website only downloads the title of the article. I went to Drudge which has Molly Ivins listed on his front page in an attempt to get the column but his link just sends me to that crappy website which supposedly does the internet version of my paper...it is a horrible website provider and all complaints to it from me in the past have been ignored.
So if Molly Ivins shows up in your paper with that column, please read it; it's very good.
31140. robertjayb - 4/14/2002 4:12:36 PM
Molly is sometimes hard to find. I believe that her relationship with the Startlegram has changed.
Try looking for here through links at bartcop and buzzflash.
31141. judithathome - 4/14/2002 4:38:40 PM
Robert:
I couldn't find the links on BartCop and BuzzFlash had a link but it was from Thursday's column.
She writes for something called Creators Syndicate, no apostrophe, at least that is the contact point listed in the StarTelegram whereas it used to say for the paper so you may be right. Whatever, I can't find that column anywhere except linked to the ST or not linked at all...bummer.
31142. judithathome - 4/14/2002 4:41:56 PM
Ahhhhh....
Here we go:
"Dissent" Is Not A Dirty Word
31143. robertjayb - 4/14/2002 5:04:29 PM
Excellent, Judith. And a mighty fine Molly column:
Is it possible, remotely possible, that Democrats are frightened by the John Ashcroft-Trent Lott school of "patriotism," which holds that questioning our elected (or even not-so-elected) leaders is tantamount to disloyalty if not treason? That expressing concern about our fundamental liberties helps terrorists? For that line of attack to be treated with anything but the contempt it deserves is itself un-American, not a word I use lightly.
As if the argument is not contemptible enough, one has only to look at the performance of these same definers of "patriotism" as blind obedience when Bill Clinton was struggling to fight a war. When the Clinton administration was trying to track and kill Osama bin Laden, Republicans gratuitously dismissed the entire effort as an attempt to change the subject from the all-important Monica Lewinsky.
31144. Absensia - 4/14/2002 5:08:28 PM
Judith, thank you for posting it. It is excellent as was the Swan cite the CD posted, but I thought it was in this thread but could not readily find it.
31145. wonkers2 - 4/14/2002 5:30:08 PM
Ditto! Molly is right on, as usual!
31146. jexster - 4/14/2002 6:33:59 PM
Ronski...
"In by one vote, out by a landslide"
31147. Property of Jesus - 4/14/2002 6:37:44 PM
Is bartcop finally sending money to his ex-wife and children as his court order stated?
If not, the slammer's calling...
31148. judithathome - 4/14/2002 6:40:50 PM
Who really cares? Did Newt ever give his ex wife any money to help her through her chemotherapy?
31149. Property of Jesus - 4/14/2002 6:49:30 PM
Judy, is it true you're going to give the online world a two-week break?
God speed. I'll re-read your old posts with slow deliberate carelessness.
31150. Absensia - 4/14/2002 6:50:19 PM
Nope...and Newt went to her bedside to tell her he was trading her in for a new model.
31151. judithathome - 4/14/2002 6:51:31 PM
Hey, why not join me in the two week break? Or why not make yours permanent; that way, everyone would be happy.
31152. Cellar Door - 4/14/2002 8:34:05 PM
"Is bartcop finally sending money to his ex-wife and children as his court order stated?"
Is it true that your son spent the Summer with Father Shanley at the Cabana Club Hotel in Palm Springs?
31153. jexster - 4/14/2002 10:37:29 PM
LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. (AP) - The Bush administration has "muddied our moral clarity" by pressuring Israel not to protect itself against terrorists after the United States aggressively responded to the Sept. 11 attacks, Sen. Joe Lieberman (news - web sites) said Sunday.
31154. wonkers2 - 4/14/2002 11:01:46 PM
Lieberman is a sanctimonious phony, in my opinion.
31155. Absensia - 4/14/2002 11:03:58 PM
and in the opinion of many!
31156. Property of Jesus - 4/15/2002 7:11:41 AM
Phony? Maybe. But Loserman was smart enough to run for the Senate while being at the Algore ticket.
Jews are smart. That's why 50,000 of them will be in DC today demonstrating for democracy. I'll be there to add support during a late lunch.
31157. arkymalarky - 4/15/2002 7:44:17 AM
That quote right there makes me glad Gore lost.
31158. Julius Caesar - 4/15/2002 10:01:31 AM
Cynthia McKinney Fills Jim Traficant's Void
When confronted, McKinney backpedaled a few millimeters. In a statement she explained: "I am not aware of any evidence showing that President Bush or members of his administration have personally profited from the attacks of 9-11. A complete investigation might reveal that to be the case."
I see. Well, just let me just say that I am not aware of any evidence that Ms. McKinney has murdered several children or that she personally profited from sleeping with the entire defensive squad of the Atlanta Falcons. However, a complete investigation might reveal that to be the case.
Meanwhile, while we await the findings of that long-overdue investigation, I can add that there is ample evidence that Ms. McKinney is dumber than rock salt and more repugnant than Yasser Arafat's three-week-old underwear.
31159. judithathome - 4/15/2002 10:07:17 AM
Jonah comes up with some good lines:
I don't mean to be such a pain in the ass to Cynthia McKinney (D., Ga.), but it appears this is the fastest route to her brain.
31160. Julius Caesar - 4/15/2002 10:16:16 AM
Zell Miller is no slouch:
"I hope President Bush will remember that this is the same Congresswoman who — during each of his State of the Union addresses — arrives early to get a coveted aisle seat, then leans way over as Bush walks down the aisle, hoping he will give her a kiss for all to see on national TV."
31161. jexster - 4/15/2002 11:00:35 AM
On the same day Senate Minority Leader Trent Lott (R-Miss.) accused Democrats of blocking Estrada's nomination "because he's Hispanic," House Republican members of a conference committee on the farm bill rejected a White House-backed proposal to restore food stamp benefits to legal immigrants.
La Hipocrasía de GOP
Buenos dias Julio!
31162. jexster - 4/15/2002 11:16:35 AM
Win by the Bible, Lose by the Gospel: Tim Hutchinson has a problem
31163. concerned - 4/15/2002 11:19:05 AM
Does this drooler look familiar? Btw, I haven't watched Crossfire recently, but I hear some now call it Firing Squad.
31164. jexster - 4/15/2002 11:20:06 AM
Republican Toss Ups
There has been no lack of activity in most key races. But, as we said, activity has not necessarily translated to movement in these races. In Arkansas, the race between GOP Sen. Tim Hutchinson and Democratic Attorney General Mark Pryor continues to be very close. Of the four polls that have been publicly released, three have been within the margin of error and Pryor has been ahead of Hutchinson in two of those.
2/25 Cook Report
31165. Julius Caesar - 4/15/2002 11:20:56 AM
Carville's been too long up your ass, jexterisa. The GOP's Estrada allegation are the kind of vile stock and trade of the race merchants (remember when Karen Hughes initially suggsted that anti-Hispanic bias had a role in the debate Tapegate?). It's all borne of Pickering as a racist, or the GOP stalling nominations because they hate minorities and women.
Goose, meet gander, and the kind of giddy fun for true-believers and parasites.
31166. jexster - 4/15/2002 11:21:27 AM
YES IT DOES...ain't the Ragin Cajun GREAT!
I have had to lay in a supply of Depends Undergarments just so I can watch Crossfire without puddle.
31167. arkymalarky - 4/15/2002 11:21:42 AM
Hey, I like that--Firing Squad. Remove the drool, and that's a very neat caricature of Carville, too.
31168. Julius Caesar - 4/15/2002 11:23:18 AM
She accused GOP lawmakers of "trying to get mileage out of framing themselves as pro-Latino in the places they are most visible, and this Estrada thing was the best example.
People get mileage out of race-baiting?
Get out.
31169. arkymalarky - 4/15/2002 11:24:00 AM
Hutchinson's been able to keep a low profile on that. I'm glad it's finally getting some attention.
Wonder when and how they began their relationship and the details about work/play locations and on-the-job activities.
31170. jexster - 4/15/2002 11:25:13 AM
Rhetorical question. Just look at TDaschole.
31171. jexster - 4/15/2002 11:26:49 AM
La carrera tentando
31172. jexster - 4/15/2002 11:29:33 AM
OOPS insufficient coffee.
Is George W. Bush obsessed with Bill Clinton?
31173. jexster - 4/15/2002 11:31:10 AM
A sordid tale of grits and greens Arky.
Not for ladies.
31174. Julius Caesar - 4/15/2002 11:31:24 AM
They argue that the president's delay in getting actively involved in the Middle East was part of an ABC policy — Anything But Clinton — that began with minor things, like wearing coats and ties in the Oval Office and being on time.
Ha ha ha ha.
I'm reminded of when Salon puts the fact that Pamela Anderson hot hepatitis from Tommy Lee over 22 More killed in Ramallah.
31175. Julius Caesar - 4/15/2002 11:31:48 AM
hot=got
31176. Julius Caesar - 4/15/2002 11:35:41 AM
Andrew Card: Okay. No cigars?
Karl Rove: Check.
Card: No McDonalds?
Rove: Check.
Card: No fat interns?
Rove: Check.
Card: Air Force One?
Rove: Hmmmmmm. Clinton rode it. Can we go bus?
Card: Nope. Clinton-Gore. Bus tour.
Rove: Rigggght. Let's get back to that.
Card: Okay. The Middle East?
Rove: Oooh. No. Very Clinton.
Card: Jogging?
Rove: Wow. That's tough.
31177. jexster - 4/15/2002 11:38:32 AM
Wacko Wolfi-witz Orders CIA Investigation of UN Head of Iraqui Weapons Inspectorate
31178. jexster - 4/15/2002 11:41:25 AM
Do I detect the fine hand of Gen PantyWaist Powell in yet another embarrassing leak of the WarLord's sewage?
31179. CalGal - 4/15/2002 11:42:08 AM
I can't remember if I saw it mentioned here, but I am really fried at the changes to Crossfire. I don't know why the Republicans are boycotting it, but it's utter bullshit to put up two Dem hacks against two journalists. What was wrong with Bill Pressman? I thought Novak was very gracious to him on his last night.
31180. jexster - 4/15/2002 11:44:30 AM
The Royal Swedish National Anthem
Ye free, ancient country
Ye high mountained north
Ye silent and free
and so delightful
We greet you as loveliest
land upon earth
Your shining sun, your sky
Your pastures green
Your shining sun, your sky
Your pastures green
You rest on your memories
of days great and past
When all round the world
your name was honoured
I know that you'll always remain
the way you were
In my own Nordic land
I'll live forever
In my own Nordic
land I'll live forever
31181. Cellar Door - 4/15/2002 11:45:30 AM
It's hack against hack, dear.
Republicans can dish it out but they can't take it.
Bunch of friggin' pussies !
31182. jexster - 4/15/2002 11:51:24 AM
George W. Bush is a geopolitical incompetent. He has allowed a clique of hawks to induce him to take a position on invading Iraq from which he cannot extract himself, one which will have nothing but negative consequences for the United States--and the rest of the world.
Immanuel Wallerstein
31183. jexster - 4/15/2002 11:53:45 AM
Cutie Carlson is tryin hard but evidently not hard enough as the Conintern has issued instructions to avoid Crossfire.
31184. concerned - 4/15/2002 12:07:23 PM
Re. 31179 -
CalGal -
Of course, there's the real chance that Begala and Carville will hurt their cause overall because of excessive ideological zeal and extremely unbalanced handling of the facts.
But to the more impressionable and less knowledgeable on the left, I imagine they'll act as gasoline thrown on a charcoal grille. Picking these two is not what one would call a responsible hosting decision by CNN.
31185. judithathome - 4/15/2002 12:10:35 PM
will hurt their cause overall because of excessive ideological zeal and extremely unbalanced handling of the facts.
And yet this hasn't hurt Novak and the others from the "noble" right? Get real....
31186. CalGal - 4/15/2002 12:10:45 PM
Cellar,
It's not hack against hack. Granted, Novak is a devout conservative. But he's not a paid party hack. Neither is Carlson, so far as I know.
Concerned,
It's funny--when the news was first announced, I just thought, "Eh. They are bringing in big guns." It wasn't until a bit later that I realized that neither of them have ever even pretended to do time as journalists/analysts.
31187. concerned - 4/15/2002 12:15:46 PM
Actually, I had read a year or two in the past that Novak is actually a Democrat. As such, he would be an extremely unusual one and unrecognizable as such to most, since he disdains partisan bombast, vitriol and intentionally misleading his audience and prefers real analysis with some balance.
If I'm wrong about Novak's party affiliation, somebody please correct me.
31188. jexster - 4/15/2002 12:17:37 PM
Novak is MISTER REPUBLICAN
He was a Democrat last during the Eisenhower admin if memory serves...
31189. jexster - 4/15/2002 12:18:19 PM
"Disdains partisanship"
Has Rosie stolen TDaschole's moniker?
31190. jexster - 4/15/2002 12:18:56 PM
Bu$h Budget Going Down in Flames on Hill
31191. jexster - 4/15/2002 12:24:01 PM
Hopefully soon we'll see Carville v. Novak discussing
"Is George Bush a geopolitical incompetent"
Depends, extra absorbent.
31192. Property of Jesus - 4/15/2002 12:32:24 PM
"Fair and balanced" FOX NEWS gets three times the audience as CNN's CROSSFIRE at 7 pm.
Numbers are 1.3 million vs. 320,000 audience.
And, it's important to remember, that 9 million households are denied access to FOX, thanks to heavy-handed management at AOL/TimeWarner cable systems.
31193. Jonesatlaw - 4/15/2002 12:37:11 PM
President Per Curiam takes a page from the Shadow-John Dean sees Nixonian attitude in Bush White House dealings with Congress
31194. jexster - 4/15/2002 12:54:25 PM
Jonesy..which is why Bush needs war without end...but since he's now widely seen as a geopolitical toddler, he won't get it and Congressional Dems and Republicans are going to get him...
We're already seeing the beginning of payback for Bush's high-handed "top down" style from the Pentagon to Foggy Bottom to the Hill to Brussels to Jerusalem...the price of hubris will be paid in spades
31195. jexster - 4/15/2002 12:55:31 PM
And how could I forget Sacramento!
Thanks to Rove's meddling, the CA GOP, already in the toilet, is about to be flushed...
31196. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 4/15/2002 6:00:19 PM
31197. jexster - 4/15/2002 6:02:36 PM
hahahahahahaahahhaahaha
Weeez
Do Robert a favor...he's a post that matches that in his News thread
31198. jexster - 4/15/2002 6:02:42 PM
hahahahahahaahahhaahaha
Weeez
Do Robert a favor...he's a post that matches that in his News thread
31199. jexster - 4/15/2002 9:24:21 PM
"There are six syllables President Bush really doesn't want to say aloud: Osama bin Laden. In the first weeks after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the al-Qaeda leader was on Bush's mind and prominent in his public remarks. Bush said he wanted him found 'dead or alive' and rarely missed an opportunity to refer to bin Laden as 'the evil one.' But it has been six months since the president launched the war on terrorism, bin Laden has not been caught, and Bush and his advisers have decided that making bin Laden the personification of the enemy is not a good idea. Mentioning him only serves as a reminder that U.S. forces in Afghanistan have failed to fulfill what was once a key objective of the war." USA Today
31200. concerned - 4/15/2002 9:32:09 PM
jex -
GWB can only beat the dead goat fucker so much.
31201. jexster - 4/15/2002 9:52:46 PM
Listen carefully to the news headlines this week, and you will hear it: the drip, drip, dripping noise of America's prestige—and the reputation of America's secretary of state—dwindling away in the Middle East. Let us be blunt: So far, Colin Powell's mission to the region has been a diplomatic disaster
Anne Applebaum on Bumblefucks R US
31202. jexster - 4/15/2002 10:24:18 PM
Is the United States a Laughingstock or Just Our Unelected WarLord?
The president's "peace initiative," readers may recollect, called upon the Israelis to withdraw from the West Bank. When, a week later, the Israelis hadn't withdrawn from the West Bank, the president made a new statement: "I meant what I said about Israeli withdrawal." Since then, another week has passed: no withdrawal.
Reversing himself again...pandering to the Israeli demonstrators ...
Pathetic.
So much for clarity, moral or otherwise.
31203. jexster - 4/15/2002 10:52:24 PM
Bushies Tried to Engineer Failed Venezuelan Coup
Reminds me of Rove 'n Riordan in California.
This buffoon is dangerous.
31204. jexster - 4/15/2002 11:08:17 PM
The Bush Administration is starting to leak like a sieve...
It began with the Justice Dept leak of Ashcroft's einsatzgruppen lunacy and has continued ever since.
Now the drip is becoming a flood. In the past 3 weeks, the following highly embarrassing and damaging leaks from the Bush Admin:
- British admit they have no evidence of Iraq violating UN resolutions, shit can report on Iraq
- Pentagon leaks war plan for Iraq calling for 300-400,000 troops and massive strikes lasting months, Rummy not pleased
- Wolfowitz brown ops job on UN Iraq arms honcho
- BumbleFucks R US behind the1 day coup in Venezuela
Payback for hubris folks, the fun has just begun.
31205. jexster - 4/16/2002 9:12:39 AM
Proper Link for Bush Venezuelan Coup Catastrophe
Why is all of Latin America upset or suprised?
After all, Bush himself is president by coup.
31206. jexster - 4/16/2002 9:13:16 AM
He's just being consistent, morally clear.
31207. zojak quafeth - 4/16/2002 9:17:08 AM
Mr. Chávez has made himself very unpopular with the Bush administration with his pro-Cuban stance and mouthing of revolutionary slogans — and, most recently, by threatening the independence of Venezuela's state-owned oil company, Petróleos de Venezuela, the third-largest foreign supplier of American oil.
Cheaper gas for me? 4 MORE YEARS!
31208. arkymalarky - 4/16/2002 9:48:50 AM
I think making Venezuela a colony could be cheaper and more environment-friendly than messing with Alaska. Finding a Marcos-type might work, but he'd have to be better at keeping control than the jokes who overthrew Chavez for a day.
31209. jexster - 4/16/2002 10:14:20 AM
I am not worried...
A little dray ruhb on powk reeyubs...a slayce of Mizz Lawruh's limin cheefon payh will have ole Chavez fergivin an fergitten jess layhk the troo Christiun he eeyuz
31210. jexster - 4/16/2002 10:31:24 AM
Last Tuesday was one for the presidential blooper reel.
At a speech in Bridgeport, Conn., President Bush declared that he wanted each American to volunteer for "4,000 years," a variation of his usual call for "4,000 hours" that produced guffaws in the audience.
Defective from Birth????
31211. jexster - 4/16/2002 10:34:28 AM
In Missouri last month, Bush expressed his desire for "making the death tax permanent"
31212. robertjayb - 4/16/2002 3:37:36 PM
via bartcop:
31213. concerned - 4/16/2002 3:59:52 PM
Still whining about the electoral college, eh, Lefties? If it was Bore who had won with an electoral majority only, you would have been prepared to be equally vehement in your defense of what you're attacking now.
Your hypocrisy is soooooo transparent.
31214. jexster - 4/16/2002 4:05:28 PM
Amid swirls of controversy about his moral clarity and mental acuity, our Imbecile is workin up another speech on terrorism.
What's on That 70's Show?
31215. jexster - 4/16/2002 4:06:26 PM
Yea concerned, I believe in the democratic franchise..not coup d'etat.
Not in Venezuela, not here
31216. jexster - 4/16/2002 4:57:29 PM
As America's Foremost political commentator _________ said a month ago
[Reuters]
David Mack, a former U.S. diplomat now with the Middle East Institute, said Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites)'s assault on Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat (news - web sites) had backfired, making Bush, not Arafat look "irrelevant."
"This is a serious blow to U.S. influence in the region, and in the long term it is also bad for Israel," he added.
31217. jexster - 4/16/2002 10:05:04 PM
President Bush is blessed with an uncanny knack for dividing the world into white hats and black hats. After his first meeting with Russia's Vladimir Putin, Bush declared, "I looked the man in the eye ... I was able to get a sense of his soul."
The Bush style is to overpersonalize geopolitical complexity, judging an entire country on the basis of whether its leader is tough, reliable, and can enjoy towel-snapping locker-room banter. For the president, the map of the world boasts individual faces rather than a range of pastel-colored shapes. Mexico is best amigo Vicente Fox. Britain is the ever-ingratiating Tony Blair doing his best Margaret Thatcher imitation. And Israel is personified by Ariel Sharon, a general so relentless that Bush can probably imagine him brandishing a rifle at the Alamo.
31218. jexster - 4/16/2002 10:07:24 PM
TDaschole's President - World Historical Laughingstock
31219. jexster - 4/16/2002 10:18:04 PM
"When Musharraf arrived in Washington for a mid-February state visit, Bush personally rewarded him with a coveted "Get Out of Democracy Free" card."
jess layhk george-duh
31220. concerned - 4/17/2002 3:01:54 AM
Look! There's jexster on the Left.
31221. jexster - 4/17/2002 9:48:08 AM
IMPOTENT
Its not a word that macho republicans like to hear spoken about their President.
Get used to it.
Thanks Ariel!
31222. jexster - 4/17/2002 9:51:37 AM
Mubarak Will Not Meet With Powell
Boy those were tax dollars well spent....
Even our best friends are learning how to tell Bush to go play with himself...
31223. jexster - 4/17/2002 10:24:56 AM
ObL Escaped at Tora Bora (US)
"Moron", "imbecile", "incompetent", "bumbler", "bob", roll of republican backs like water on a duck.
"Crook", "morally muddled" - who cares?
But IMPOTENT, IRRELEVANT...those sting.
31224. jexster - 4/17/2002 10:27:53 AM
If you listen carefully you can hear them laughing
Bush Tells Congress to Restrain Spending
31225. jexster - 4/17/2002 10:42:42 AM
Sen. Christopher J. Dodd(D-Conn.), chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere, said he was "extremely disappointed" in the administration's response to the coup.
He acknowledged that Secretary of State Colin L. Powell was preoccupied with the Middle East crisis but added, "I would hope that in the future there would be more adult supervision of the policy formulation." LAT
Speaking of the Middle East, former Raygun Advisor Scott Read accused the Administration falling short of the "two-year old" competence test.
A pattern perhaps?
31226. jexster - 4/17/2002 10:43:43 AM
I think TDaschole outta update his resume and apply for Condo's job.
31227. concerned - 4/17/2002 10:57:03 AM
McCancer as Dem candidate in 2004 - are they that desperate to not have a Bore/Hilliary ticket?
31228. jexster - 4/17/2002 11:05:48 AM
Check out the coverage of the Florida Convention last weekend....
One year early and EVERYONE is chompin at the bit for a piece of the Moronic One.
Hell, think I should throw my Giants baseball cap into the ring TDaschole?
31229. concerned - 4/17/2002 11:09:07 AM
jexster/Carville, Carville/jexster - I think it has possibilities....
31230. jexster - 4/17/2002 12:30:31 PM
I must take the #2 spot but think of the Depends Undergarments the Party would have to buy....
We'll call the Dream Ticket Ragin Cajun Squared...
Screw balanced tickets - 2 Balled, bombastic, Bush bashin Lursiana Men!
31231. jexster - 4/17/2002 12:38:11 PM
John Weaver hunches his angular frame over a Styrofoam cup of coffee in the basement cafeteria of the United States Senate and tries to explain what might seem--to an outsider--his peculiar political loyalties. Once a loyal Republican strategist who directed the presidential aspirations of über-conservative Phil Gramm and helped plot John McCain's maverick primary run in 2000, he has since reregistered as a Democrat and severed consulting ties to all Republicans except McCain, for whom he still serves as chief strategist. "I only work for Democrats now," he tells me. Noticing that he has overlooked the party affiliation of his most prominent advisee, I helpfully add: "And John McCain." Weaver shrugs his shoulders and grins, "Oh, right."
John McCain (D-AZ)?
31232. concerned - 4/17/2002 12:51:27 PM
31233. jexster - 4/17/2002 1:16:08 PM
Sharon set about to humiliate Arafat.
Now Arafat's more powerful than before and Bush is humiliated.
Nice work Shlomo!
31234. jexster - 4/17/2002 1:23:18 PM
It didn't look too good for Al [B]ore last Friday. On the eve of his much-hyped return to Florida, USA Today published a poll apparently devastating to [B]ore's political hopes. [B]ore was planning a highly partisan speech, a reentry into politics of sorts. But according to the USA Today poll, 80 percent of Democrats thought he "should say nothing critical" about George W. Bush. Even worse, the percentage of Democrats favoring [B]ore for the 2004 nomination, up at 65 last August, had plunged to 43. You could almost hear the media snickering.
Well, if [B]ore's rock-star-like reception this weekend is any indication, the snickering was a little misplaced.
Eager to Take a Bite Out of Bush>
31235. robertjayb - 4/17/2002 4:33:32 PM
South of the border, democracy works...(Joe Conason)
...A single day’s duplicity has revived every ugly memory
of the U.S. role in Latin America during the Cold War.
31236. betty - 4/17/2002 4:49:12 PM
concerned,
there is no more vote fraud in Philly than in florida, and I got a whole damn book, written well before the GOSH campaign(s) for president, to substantiate my claims.
I'm prtty sure, though i'll have to check a bit to be sure, that Philly is a "Chocolate City"...more African American Folks than any other group live in the city proper...if they had had adequate representation for the last hundred and fifty years i don't think Street would have made such comments...Philly is very racially charged because there have been gross abuses of black citizens for a long time.
Lest you think I'm some Street supporter let's be clear, the guys a creep. he's a homophobe and an opportunist. he's no worse than any mayor Philly's ever had and sadly, better than many, but i didn't vote for him and i never could. Now back when he was a "black radical" and gettign into fist fights in city council, now that's a man I'd vote for.
31237. concerned - 4/17/2002 4:55:56 PM
there is no more vote fraud in Philly than in florida..
Strictly your opinion.
31238. concerned - 4/17/2002 4:58:08 PM
Atlanta Journal-Constitution online poll shows 46% believe Bush Administration had prior warning of 9/11 attack
Probably person for person, these idiots were also the ones who thought that the WH Rapist was above the law.
31239. concerned - 4/17/2002 5:00:43 PM
Re. 31237 -
IOW, the facts contradict your opinion.
31240. concerned - 4/17/2002 5:18:28 PM
31241. jexster - 4/17/2002 5:53:25 PM
He probably had prior warning but being a geopolitical incompetent and impotent world-historical joke, GWb had no idea what the fuck he was being told
31242. concerned - 4/17/2002 5:56:42 PM
31243. concerned - 4/17/2002 5:58:47 PM
jexster -
When one doesn't feel a need to substantiate anything, one can make any slimy accusation, without conscience, that one's diseased brain can dream up.
31244. Cellar Door - 4/17/2002 5:59:01 PM
The leading role in remakes of all of Maria Montez's movies?
31245. jexster - 4/17/2002 6:33:42 PM
I, for one, am disgusted beyond words at the back stabbing unnamed sources in the Bush Admin and Rummy-gon who are second guessing and defaming our brave servicemen and women for failing to get Osama Bin Laden.
Don't you agree TDaschole?
31246. jexster - 4/17/2002 6:35:14 PM
When one doesn't feel a need to substantiate anything, one can make any slimy accusation, without conscience, that one's diseased brain can dream up.
Tell me about it!
Better yet tell Dan Burton, Henry Hyde, Asa Hutchinson, Ken Starr, Lucianne Goldberg, and Paula Jones.
And write your congressthing!
31247. jexster - 4/17/2002 6:39:09 PM
And while I am purging my bowels, I am ashamed at the failure of my fellow fag and fat, Andrew "I Had Ronski - Twice! - Sullivan to quiet that asshole Paul Krugman
Losing Latin America
Is pure sedition.
He should be shot.
No not Krugman.
Sullivan for being a feckless, fat, faggot.
31248. jexster - 4/17/2002 9:31:19 PM
Texis Oh Texis, All Hayle thuh Grayte Stayte GWB First Gubenatorial Election Night
From Charlie Cook Off to the Races!
Finally, and most recently, three polls taken before the April 9 Democratic runoff election in Texas showed former Dallas Mayor Ron Kirk running within single digits of GOP state Attorney General John Cornyn in the Texas race for Gramm's Senate seat. The first was a survey taken
in early February for the Dallas Morning News. It showed Cornyn ahead of Kirk by 6 points, 43 percent to 37 percent. The second poll, a late
March survey by the Democratic firm of Bennett, Petts & Blumenthal, gave Cornyn a statistically insignificant, 2-point advantage, 43 percent to
41 percent. The third poll was another Dallas Morning News survey, conducted April 1-4, that had Kirk ahead of Cornyn by 4 points, 43
percent to 39 percent.
When Gramm retired, few thought Democrats had a legitimate shot at this seat. Kirk, however, has turned out to be a far more formidable rival to
Cornyn than most had expected. Democrats have fared poorly in Texas over the past few years, but Kirk is viewed as a moderate and was elected to two mayoral terms in Dallas with considerable help from Republicans and the business community. As a result, he reportedly runs well ahead of
the Republican in the Dallas media market, where Democrats usually are lucky to break even.
Another possible advantage for Kirk is Democratic gubernatorial nominee and wealthy businessman Tony Sanchez, who has pledged to spend as much
as $30 million of his fortune on the race, including a massive effort to get Hispanic voters to the polls. Cornyn will be a formidable candidate-- given his own resume, a head start in fundraising, Bush's blessing in his home state and Texas' Republican tilt. But it looks as if this Texas race will be very close -- it is now considered a tossup.
31249. ronski - 4/17/2002 10:22:44 PM
Well, I admit to having had a problem with saying "No" when I was younger, but it is regrettable that the Mote is being dominated these days by a manic-depressive Democrat Party hack who regularly forgets to take his meds.
31250. Property of Jesus - 4/17/2002 10:38:12 PM
Take that, Wombat!
31251. Absensia - 4/17/2002 10:48:17 PM
Ronski, at least you aren't judgmental.
31252. jexster - 4/17/2002 10:53:22 PM
Is Ronski getting out of line?
Clarence Thomas Backs Virtual Kiddie Porn
31253. jexster - 4/17/2002 10:58:09 PM
Break out your readin glasses Rosie ole girl..
You'll need them to see with moral clarity
The Bush administration said Tuesday that it would allow the Palestine Liberation Organization to keep an office here for another six months, but it warned that the PLO could be kicked out and have funding cut if Yasser Arafat fails to crack down on terrorism.
The announcement by President Bush came as Secretary of State Colin L. Powell wrapped up his Middle East peacemaking mission. So far, Powell has been unable to clinch agreements on a cease-fire or an Israeli troop pullout from battle-scarred Palestinian cities.
In a memorandum to Powell, Bush said it was "important to the national security interests of the United States" to waive the provisions of a 1987 law that imposed restrictions on PLO activities.
The six-month waivers have been routine since 1994, after the PLO and Israel recognized each other. But Bush has come under increased pressure from pro-Israeli groups in the United States to punish the PLO and Arafat, its chairman, for a wave of Palestinian suicide bombings in the Jewish state.
31254. joezan - 4/18/2002 7:48:39 AM
Bush's Most Recent Quarterly Approval Average Among Five Best - Averaged 79% for the quarter
PRINCETON, NJ – April 19th marks the end of George W. Bush's fifth quarter as president of the United States. Since Sept. 11, Bush has been riding a wave of popular support seldom experienced by past presidents. For the current quarter ending April 19, Bush averaged 79% approval, a mark bettered by only four other quarters dating back to 1945, including Bush's own fourth quarter average of 86%.
Among past presidents from 1945 to the present, only Harry Truman's first two quarters as president, at the conclusion of World War II, and the elder George Bush's ninth quarter as president, coinciding with the Persian Gulf War, had higher average ratings than George W. Bush's most recent quarter.
31255. joezan - 4/18/2002 7:49:10 AM
Toy check
31256. Property of Jesus - 4/18/2002 8:10:09 AM
A story on gas-guzzling "enviro" Sen. John Kerry that Imus is making a big deal about this morning.
31257. Wombat - 4/18/2002 8:51:23 AM
PoJ:
Take What?
31258. robertjayb - 4/18/2002 2:40:13 PM
A well-deserved bushwhacking for ANWAR drilling...
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In a big defeat for the Bush administration's national energy plan, the Democratic-led U.S. Senate on Thursday killed a White House proposal to let oil companies drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
Republicans failed to get the 60 votes needed under Senate rules to end debate on the controversial proposal and block a threatened filibuster by Democrats.
Drilling advocates were crushed in a vote of 54 to 46 on a procedural motion to end debate on the measure.
31259. Property of Jesus - 4/18/2002 2:59:43 PM
They got 54, a majority, and yet they were crushed.
Another loser for Reuters, who refuses to call the 9-11 terorrists "terrorists"
31260. robertjayb - 4/18/2002 3:11:52 PM
You really must pay attention, POJ. Don't like Reuters? Hearken to the NYTimes:
The move to end the debate was pushed by Alaska's senators, who want to open the wildlife refuge to oil companies. With only 46 senators wanting to end the debate, the pro-drilling forces were 14 votes short of being able to stop the filibuster.
Those who oppose drilling were heartened by the fact that the pro-drilling forces could not even muster a simple majority.
31261. wonkers2 - 4/18/2002 3:18:29 PM
Another indication that POJ is veracity-challenged in addition to his other handicaps. Summon the truth squad!
31262. Property of Jesus - 4/18/2002 3:26:25 PM
Okay, my mistake. Never mind. One every few months proves I'm human.
31263. rubberducky - 4/18/2002 3:26:27 PM
when has the facts ever mattered to Property of PinHead?
31264. concerned - 4/18/2002 3:34:21 PM
The ANWR will be opened to oil drilling eventually. The Dems are doing nothing here but playing politics with their obstructive demagoguery and empty rhetoric.
31265. wonkers2 - 4/18/2002 3:39:10 PM
More like every few minutes!
31266. robertjayb - 4/18/2002 3:52:39 PM
Styles of Presidential Lying...Michael Kinsley, not editor of Slate...
31267. Property of Jesus - 4/18/2002 4:01:49 PM
One of the reasons why President Bush has such high approval ratings is because the American people trust him.
He doesn't lie. So different from Clinton's administration.
31268. wonkers2 - 4/18/2002 4:05:37 PM
PoJ definitely is of the Bush II style.
31269. betty - 4/18/2002 4:05:49 PM
yes PoJ, bush is keeping up appearances, isn't he?
31270. Cellar Door - 4/18/2002 4:05:56 PM
(words fail)
31271. wonkers2 - 4/18/2002 4:14:06 PM
Clinton is a southren gentleman who is expected to lie to protect the honor of a woman.
What's BushII's excuse?
31272. thoughtful - 4/19/2002 9:48:07 AM
Bush II lie? He can't keep reality straight let alone try obfuscating it with lies. If he does lie, no one notices as we just chalk it up to another bushism:
"And so, in my State of the—my State of the Union—or state—my speech to the nation, whatever you want to call it, speech to the nation—I asked Americans to give 4,000 years—4,000 hours over the next—the rest of your life—of service to America. That's what I asked—4,000 hours." —Bridgeport, Conn., April 9, 2002
31273. thoughtful - 4/19/2002 9:56:13 AM
Actually, Bush, of course has lied, for example, Bush's relationship with Kenny Boy. Lying is fundamental to being a politician. The difference though is that there is not a monied party trying to force Bush into a position where he ends up lying under oath as they did with Clinton. You see, there's nothing illegal about lying to the press or to the people.
31274. Property of Jesus - 4/19/2002 9:56:38 AM
Damage to White House by Clinton aides cited, GAO reports
31275. Property of Jesus - 4/19/2002 12:02:10 PM
Andy Cuomo's 9-11 Gaffe Marks Return of His Mean Streak
31276. wonkers2 - 4/19/2002 12:10:37 PM
Mote Truth Squad alert!!
31277. zojak quafeth - 4/19/2002 12:59:10 PM
Go figure Skating the truth has been the political norm forever and we all think it's big news now. Bush lies. Clinton lied, etc. etc. etc. The only thing that changes is the identity of the people bitching about the lying.
This is getting rather old don't you think?
31278. concerned - 4/19/2002 1:04:34 PM
FWIW, we all unavoidably lie and fail to characterize situations in ways which meet others' expectations. Some lies are more objectionable than others, however, and the intentional egregious dissimulations regularly perpretrated by x42 are of an entirely greater magnitude and much more damaging that any that GWB can be held responsible for.
31279. concerned - 4/19/2002 1:04:48 PM
...than any...
31280. zojak quafeth - 4/19/2002 1:10:01 PM
Concerned. In your view, yes.
In W2's view, no.
31281. zojak quafeth - 4/19/2002 1:14:18 PM
In the end history will decide. We each view the world through the tint in our own particualr glasses. W2 blindly sees Clinton as trying to save someone's honor (gimme a break, lol).
You see Bush and completely and totally honest. He doesn't have to confess to chopping down the cherry tree, because morally, he wouldn't do it in the first place.
You're both wrong.
The truth is somewhere in the middle.
31282. concerned - 4/19/2002 1:31:52 PM
Re, 31281 -
I don't see GWB as being morally infallible in any sense. But I can at least say that to date that his administration has made greater efforts to describe and justify its policy than we have come to expect over the previous eight years (i.e.: the early administration statements about the economy and war on terrorism as opposed to x42 pretty well shining us on at every turn regarding such issues), plus he hasn't yet been caught blatantly prevaricating, which had become so common during the previous administration that it was generally taken for granted.
One problem with the Israel/Pal situation is that it is almost guaranteed to tarnish all who become even tangentially involved with it. Much more credibility than most people are willing to consider has been jettisoned along with the Oslo 'peace accords'.
31283. concerned - 4/19/2002 1:37:26 PM
That's one reason that the Yurrupeons are so 'angry'. They've been rooked by Nobel Peace Prize Winner Arafat bigtime, but they're afraid of angering their Muslim minorities. So, what's left? They defecate all over Israel.
I take stuff like that from Europe FWIW and no more.
31284. concerned - 4/19/2002 1:43:25 PM
Another example of this is jexster's posting. You can bet that if he had caught the Bush administration in an outright untruth or significant intentional deception, he would have held it dear and mentioned it often. Yet, his themes regarding the Bush administration to date has revolved around all-purpose disparaging terms such as 'bumblefuck' and 'moron'.
31285. Wombat - 4/19/2002 2:01:58 PM
Bush's presidency is founded on a lie...that he was actually elected.
31286. concerned - 4/19/2002 3:24:23 PM
Don't fret, Wombat. The Electoral College system is not all bad, regardless of how it disappointed you in 2000.
31287. Wombat - 4/19/2002 3:26:40 PM
I am not bothered by the Electoral College, just the Supreme Court.
31288. concerned - 4/19/2002 3:31:35 PM
I take it you're not referring to the brigands at SCOFLA.
31289. wonkers2 - 4/19/2002 3:49:03 PM
"bumblefuck and moron Bush"
The pot calling the kettle black. At least Bush is currently in office. You are constantly calling Ex-President Clinton similarly disparaging names with far less truth.
31290. concerned - 4/19/2002 3:51:53 PM
wonkers -
So, you maintain that jexster is the pot....
31291. wonkers2 - 4/19/2002 3:53:10 PM
Well, that wasn't exactly what I had in mind.
31292. thoughtful - 4/20/2002 9:52:32 AM
But I can at least say that to date that his administration has made greater efforts to describe and justify its policy than we have come to expect over the previous eight years ... plus he hasn't yet been caught blatantly prevaricating...
Truly in the eye of the beholder...
First, it's easy to avoid lying when one is so secretive...shutting down the release of white house records, refusing to be open about cheney's energy task force meetings, and let's not forget about that "secure but undisclosed location" nonsense we went through with Cheney while he went duck hunting in NY state. Sheesh! The paranoid insistence on loyalty from members of the bush admin makes me ask what are they afraid of? What truth will out that they so fear? They have created a secret "shadow government" which no one outside of the administration was even aware of including the other 2 branches of government. This is not a dictatorship, though bush has made comments to Chairman Dung on how much easier it is to operate than a democracy. Remember...though this admin seems to forget...they are not CEOs of corporations or private firms any longer....they are doing the people's business with the people's money and need to answer as such.
31293. thoughtful - 4/20/2002 10:05:49 AM
But regarding lying...ah yes, Karl Rove's insistence that the reason Bush was flitting around the country on 9/11 was because Air Force One was a target of the terrorists ...or W's refusal to admit that he had used illegal drugs in his past ...or his prevaricating about the role Kenny Boy played in his gubernatorial election. And let's not forget launching that "disinformation" balloon that they were going to start lying to us and then they weren't but then who can be sure that the statement they weren't going to lie wasn't a lie that was part of the disinformation campaign? The biggest lie of all, of course, is who's running this country. It's cheney, not bush. Don't believe me? Look at 9/11 as a snapshot of the performance of this administration. Cheney was in the white house attending business, Laura Bush was meeting with sr. senator of opposition party Ted Kennedy and W. was in FL reading to school children. When George pere was in office, Barbara was the one running around reading to school children. When Reagan was in office, he was in the white house attending business while George was sent off all over the country and the world to attend the funerals and ceremonial things.
31294. thoughtful - 4/20/2002 10:06:04 AM
And regarding policy, the prevarication comes from using whatever is happening now as justification for the policies which, once put forth become immutable regardless of if they make sense anymore.....ANWR drilling needed for CA energy crisis, or for job creation, or for energy independence.....tax cut needed because the economy is growing too fast and generating surpluses, or it's growing too slow so we need to stimulate jobs, or it's needed because we are at war with terrorists. This is the same tax cut that came out during a campaign one-ups-manship with Gore. That's how much consideration went into this policy. The awful truth is their policy choices reflect the personal benefits they and their family and cronies receive far more than they reflect national needs or optimal solutions for national problems. And that, to me, is far more worrisome than who is sleeping in the Lincoln bedroom or an attempt to cover up an illicit sexual affair.
31295. wonkers2 - 4/20/2002 6:03:25 PM
Well said!
31296. betty - 4/20/2002 6:59:39 PM
Commission on Presidential Debates Settles Dispute, Apologizes to Ralph Nader for Removing Him From UMASS Campus During First Presidential Debate.
31297. concerned - 4/21/2002 12:45:34 AM
The paranoid insistence on loyalty from members of the bush admin makes me ask what are they afraid of?
Thoughtful - do you have special evidence that the WH was definitively not being targeted by the airliner which crashed in PA on 9/11? No? Then maybe that's strong evidence you're ignorant and merely venting your political spleen on the WH.
What truth will out that they so fear?
You have clearly failed to note that not only are you denying the administration and all its consultees any right of confidentiality whatsoever, but that it is becoming increasingly apparent to the eleven or so congressional investigations into the matter that the administration is neither 'afraid' nor hiding anything of critical significance to public knowledge in the matter, regardless of what those with vested interests may maintain. You really ought to keep up with developments for a change before presuming to critcize and condemn.
Your circumstantial snapshot reveals more about your irrelevant contempt of situational realities than of any role Cheney actually plays vs. GWB in administration policy. Such conclusions based on snapshot observations as who was where when the WTC and Pentagon were attacked, may I say, are spurious. You don't seem to have anything constructive to offer in the matter; just ignorant sneering at a political party.
31298. concerned - 4/21/2002 12:45:52 AM
The fact remains that Clowntoon personally, and his administration in general (example: the secrecy surrounding the failed Hilliary health care initiative) never felt the need to justify his actions as president to the country - public accountability which was sadly lacking during '93 to '01, and for which you had no criticism I can recall. Now why would that be, except for base partisanship on your part? I'm glad that we now have a chief executive who has an administration who is willing to explain its actions and respond to public inquiry, and the fact that its most vicious critics cannot ever be satisfied doesn't bother me in the least.
31299. concerned - 4/21/2002 12:52:59 AM
How can you on one hand claim that Cheney is running the show and then go on about his duck hunting? You're shooting yourself in the foot here.
The shadow government 'scandal' was cooked up by crooked ideologues like Daschole for the consumption of gullible idiots. Daschole knew about it all along, and the 'shadow government' been consituted in time of US crisis for decades.
Your blather about 'profit considerations', without a shred of justification, btw, motivating the GWB more than policy initiatives is about the most truthless trash I've seen from anybody but self-marginalizing Lefty whackjobs. To sum up, it's clear that you, 'thoughtful', have no shame, regard for the truth or capability for balanced analysis, based on your posting here.
31300. concerned - 4/21/2002 12:57:43 AM
errata
..constituted...
...motivating GWB...
I should proofread.
IAC, I gave 'thoughtful's comprehensive lies and distortions much more attention than they deserve. Based on the venom and level of paranoia 'thoughtful' displays here, she would be right at home posting at the 'DU' with the other LW conspiracy theory nutcases.
31301. concerned - 4/21/2002 1:02:25 AM
'thoughtful' has laid the groundwork here, btw, for an assertion that the Bush Administration was behind the 9/11 attacks.
I hope that even she realizes that going that far will prove her irredentist rubber room material.
31302. concerned - 4/21/2002 1:06:37 AM
Re. 31295 -
Wonkers -
How is a vitriolic tissue of lies and distortions 'well said'?
Ooops. I forgot that I'm dealing with Lefties here.
31303. concerned - 4/21/2002 2:07:05 AM
Poster Child of the 'Rat Party
A great success for Lefties working toward their goal of ultimate self centered shallowness for everybody.
31304. OhioSTOPAS - 4/21/2002 8:13:22 AM
Hard to believe that even "concerned" would consider that logic-impaired screed to be worth reading.
While the author criticizes the things "Chastity" has done in her (alleged) life - divorces, chain smoking, drug use, promiscuity, child neglect - and contends that Democratic Party-sponsored legislation has encouraged or enabled these actions, that contention defies logic. "Chastity" has received her income by getting married and living off her husband(s) - isn't that what Republicans want women to do? The article does not mention her ever receiving a welfare check - what government benefit she has received via the Earned Income Tax Credit has resulted from her working, not from not working. If her addiction to tobacco is the result of any political party's actions or inactions, it's not the Democratic Party.
The author's lame suggestion that what "Chastity" should do instead is "seek counseling"? Sounds like an endorsement of a Democratic public health program.
The police actually show up and investigate when a wife reports being beaten by her husband? What a world. Damn Democrats.
Finally, I don't know what to make of the the author's repeated references to "Chastity's" stockings and high heels.
Could anyone with a brain find this article to be coherent?
31305. OhioSTOPAS - 4/21/2002 8:45:49 AM
Here's a bit from today's column by Honest George F. Will in the Washington Post:
"In the autumn of 2000 the price of gasoline went up a bit, an inconvenience for candidate Al Gore, so the Clinton administration, which felt the pain of a nation that has a low pain threshold when in the proximity of gasoline pumps, pumped oil out of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, which exists to protect the nation against major interruptions of supply, not to knock a few nickels off the price of gasoline during a presidential election."
In fact, the issue was the supply and cost of heating oil for the upcoming winter, not gasoline prices. The modest releases of oil from the Reserve were not expected to do anything about gasoline prices, and did not.
George must be bucking for a government job: Minister of Truth.
31306. judithathome - 4/21/2002 9:06:35 AM
A close look at one of the many bottom feeders in our society, and how the Democratic Party’s social programs and tax credits perpetuate and actually encourage more of this breed of scum dwelling fish
Has Cazart become a conservative?
The name of the publication Concerned linked to was "Intellectual Conservative"....I think it is neither.
31307. OhioSTOPAS - 4/21/2002 9:11:00 AM
Will also repeats the dubious claim that the ANWR drilling would be on only about three square miles ("one-hundredth of one percent" of ANWR's 30,000 square miles). I suppose it's all in what the definition of the word "drilling" is, but the questionable method of calculation behind this oft-repeated statement is exposed in this article by Paul Krugman.
31308. judithathome - 4/21/2002 9:25:45 AM
I guess George thinks all that drilling equipment will just be dropped by parachute into ANWAR...no roads will have to be cut and no trees felled in order to cut them. Just little oil rigs, fully assembled, floating down on the three square miles.
31309. OhioSTOPAS - 4/21/2002 9:29:20 AM
Judith: Don't forget the happy caribou clustering around the air-dropped oil rigs. They might even cut up the parachutes to make sweaters.
31310. judithathome - 4/21/2002 9:30:08 AM
...or shrouds.
31311. OhioSTOPAS - 4/21/2002 9:43:12 AM
More from Will's article:
"Many opponents of ANWR drilling favor mandating higher fuel efficiency for cars and trucks, which means lighter and less-safe vehicles. The National Academy of Sciences says existing standards contribute to 1,300 to 2,600 deaths -- and 10 times that many serious injuries -- every year. Nevertheless, stricter standards are favored by many people who were scandalized when President Bush temporarily suspended implementation of new regulations requiring even more reduction of arsenic in water. The Environmental Protection Agency estimated the regulations might save 28 lives a year."
How is this dishonest? Let me count the ways:
The 2001 NAS study says "existing [automobile mileage] standards contribute to 1,300 to 2,600" traffic deaths per year? Not exactly. That figure is calculated as the result of smaller automobile size, not necessarily the government mandate. Furthermore, to the extent smaller size was the result of the increased standards, it was because of insufficient lead time allowed to the industry, requiring the industry to meet the standards by reducing automobile size instead of developing better engine efficiency. (Who sez? The exact same NAS study cited by Will to suggest the opposite.) Increased mileage can be obtained without reducing automobile size. (Who sez? The exact same NAS study.) Increased mileage standards is good public policy. (Who sez? You guessed it.)
31312. OhioSTOPAS - 4/21/2002 9:44:19 AM
As for comparing the alleged traffic deaths saved with the allegedly smaller number of deaths that would result from the failure to tighten arsenic standards, surely Will is smart enough to know this is a phony analogy.
The issue is not only the number of deaths, it's what the tradeoff is. We could save even more lives by reducing highway speed limits to 40 MPH, but we don't want to trade off the economic efficiency and enjoyment of life that results from being able to get places faster. Mileage standards reduce consumption of an important, finite natural resource and dependence on possibly hostile foreign governments. Reduction of arsenic standards costs industry money - certainly something that needs to be considered in the cost-benefit analysis, but considerably less important than the goals of increased mileage standards.
31313. OhioSTOPAS - 4/21/2002 9:45:12 AM
All in all, quite a performance of pro-Republican spinning by our boy George F. this morning!
31314. betty - 4/21/2002 10:17:25 AM
Message # 31303
concerned,
why would you post that piece of shit in here? You are being so naughty this morning. I am gonna put you in time out if you can't behave.
It would seem that having eight abortions was a much more responsible thing for her to do than to have eight kids that would, of course, been supported by tax dollars. Geesh, not only do they want to complain about paying for the cost of raising kids, conservatives want to complain about the 200-1,000 dollars they spend to not support a kid. there's just no pleasing these people. One way or another, they've always got something to complain about.
31315. joezan - 4/21/2002 10:42:39 AM
betty:
You prove concerned's point.
He has stated many times that he is pro choice. But this goes way beyond choosing to end a pregnancy.
It is choosing utter stupidity and irresponsibility, when there are any number of effective bc methods available. Framing your response as you did places you firmly in the camp concerned bemoans - those who feel it is the govt's responsibility to remedy the irresponsible actions of its citizens.
31316. betty - 4/21/2002 11:42:18 AM
joe,
i don't think i make anyone's point. I was actually pointing out one of the several inconsistencies of that article which seeks to appeal to "morality". as is evidence by it's several complaints about "immorality".
I'm an anarchist. had i been posting here during Clinton's regime I'm sure more than one poster would have accused me of being an arch-conservative...but since it is the shrub who seized power in a graceful coup I will throw cream pies in his face.
regardless, there is no excuse for personal irresponsibility, growing up where and how i did, I saw a whole lotta folks who abused or where dependent upon (not always through any personal fault) the welfare system (which, this woman wasn't, i might add)...but then growing up where and how i did i also understand the necessity of social safety net programs.
This woman sounds like a real piece of work, but it's not my obligation to condemn every person who acts in a way that I don't aprove of. She's not an argument for maintaining the few Social Welfare programs we have, but neither is she an argument against it. She is an individual, that's it.
40% of my hometown is receiving some form of Public Assistance or Services (could be as little as Medicaid for Pregnant Women or HeadStart), almost 60% live at or below 140% of the poverty line. Less than 20% vote Democrat. In my personal experience, the majority of the "liberals" in town are teachers, doctors, lawyers and the few college-educated people who live there, the people in the community who are least likely to use the Public Assistance resources.
please draw your own conclusions.
31317. OhioSTOPAS - 4/21/2002 10:53:52 PM
There's a good op-ed by Al Gore in today's New York Times regarding the Bush Administration's environmental policy (although to give proper credit to the author, I should call it the energy industry's policy).
" . . . The largest polluters know their only hope for escaping restrictions lies in promoting confusion about global warming.
"Just as Enron needed auditors who wouldn't blow the whistle when the company lied about the magnitude of its future liabilities, the administration needs scientific reviews that won't sound the alarm on the destruction of the earth's climate balance."
31318. ronski - 4/21/2002 11:15:47 PM
A serious load of garbage from Gore, not that one is surprised by this.
31319. Property of Jesus - 4/21/2002 11:21:52 PM
THE DAY THAT CONGRESS ROCKED
Al and Tipper Gore were made fun of on VH1 tonight. Hilarious, and the kiss of death from young America for them in 2004.
VH1's "Warning: Parental Advisory"
31320. Jonesatlaw - 4/21/2002 11:59:25 PM
Re "Chastity"
How does the author know so many details of this person's life, including private ones regarding her sexual history, life story, and daily routine? An ex-spouse perhaps? Or did the author just slum with her for awhile when his respectable, conservative dream girl was out buying sensible shoes?
However, even a stopped watch is right two times a day, and the author is right when he notes that there is precious little penalty for serial bigamy (or serial monogamy as the PC crowd would have it). It is an unfortunate side effect of no fault divorce, yet the only real opposition to no-fault comes from a few religious conservatives and fringe feminists. Strange bedfellows....
31321. betty - 4/22/2002 9:03:47 AM
Jones,
I was wondering how the author got so many details myself. Really, "Chastity" is probably completely made-up, but that would be a more reliable source than an ex-husband. I really like how they make husband number 2 out to be a saint, yet he was having an affair with her while she was married, and I'd bet anything that he knew she was doing drugs if he wasn't doing them himself. But, he's a saint because he has a job.
a job washes away all sins.
31322. concerned - 4/22/2002 11:15:09 AM
